Please no more Eureka!

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

You clearly have no idea how battle design works. Forgetting the new attacks and animations, battle content needs to be scripted, balanced, and tested. While I agree with you that Eureka took more assets, the whole content series is an experiment that benefits the game even if its a failure. The logogram system, the magia board system, the public dungeon system, and the open world instance system can all be reused in different ways now, and wouldn't exist without Eureka.

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The battle design argument goes out the window now that BA exists.

Come to think of it, there's also all the FATE bosses in every zone. And while I'm sure developing fight mechanics for a FATE boss is far less effort than an Ultimate fight, there are a lot of FATE bosses that all had to have effort put into their mechanics.

To all those people who were convinced we would finish out Eureka with a weaker than BIS weapon: *laughs in BIS*

Also, I enjoyed Eureka a lot more than the ARR and HW relic grinds. Those seriously made me want to gouge my eyes out.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

The battle design argument goes out the window now that BA exists.

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Well, since they decided not to do an Ultimate for 4.5 because, officially, it was too stressful for the playerbase (/sigh), they probably redirected those ressources to design the Arsenal. So, the argument could still stand for all past zones.

As for FATEs boss, I barely started Hydatos yet, but for the three previous zones, no boss really have any new mechanic, so I think they're pretty cheap to design.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Also, I enjoyed Eureka a lot more than the ARR and HW relic grinds. Those seriously made me want to gouge my eyes out.

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They're the reason why I never purposefuly farmed Tomestones in SB. I can count the number of Expert Roulettes I did since 4.0 on one hand. :p

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Originally Posted by Nariel

yeah while attack and animations are never used again because they all are totaly new and didn't used any of the original fight and Eureka need no script nor balance and didn't need any test. its obvious they need more people working in a single fight than in 4 whole new maps filled with boss and new systems and Baldesion Arsenal, Eureka need a whole patch but cost so little money and work I start to ask myslef why they just don't add it in every single patch to begin with.

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Maybe you misread my comment. My overall point is that while Eureka did take more assets, we shouldn't discount the dev time that went into making the ultimate fights, as well as remembering that the dev time that went into Eureka was predominantly technical hurdles that benefit the game as a whole even if Eureka is bad.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Maybe you misread my comment. My overall point is that while Eureka did take more assets, we shouldn't discount the dev time that went into making the ultimate fights, as well as remembering that the dev time that went into Eureka was predominantly technical hurdles that benefit the game as a whole even if Eureka is bad.

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The point being they used far more assets to give birth to a niche nostialgia trip to 1999 worst timeline and they choosed to discard the niche high-end boss fight nobody have a problem with. Considering how much people will go through to the lame-ass end during its lifespawn and how many people won't be able to part in when its relevance is gone for good I don't take much of a risk while sayin' Eureka is a far more waste of ressources/money/dev's time/whatever than Ultimate never was and will never be and it could have been used to actualy bring more activity and constistency in those awfull patch.

Any non-eureka player aka the main target audience of the whole game have absolutely nothing new to do once their weekly ivalice loot aquired when they bother get it.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Any non-eureka player aka the main target audience of the whole game have absolutely nothing new to do once their weekly ivalice loot aquired when they bother get it.

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The same could be said of any non relic player in AAR and HW. Sorry but if you have chosen not to do relic in Stormblood that is your choice.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Eureka is a far more waste of ressources/money/dev's time/whatever than Ultimate never was and will never be and it could have been used to actualy bring more activity and constistency in those awfull patch.

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You are entitled to YOUR opinion but you are not the Litmus Test as to whether or not that is true. There are many of us enjoying this content and are very happy the dev team decided to give us something new rather that recycle the same old tune this go around.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Any non-eureka player aka the main target audience of the whole game have absolutely nothing new to do once their weekly ivalice loot aquired when they bother get it.

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As opposed to all the things you had to do in 2.5 and 3.5, I suppose ? Also, did you miss that they released a new job in 4.5 ?

Yup, exactly like 2.0 and 3.0, meaning they didn't adress the problem at all. Not like you can get usefull tomestone out of 2.0/3.0 roulettes without needing a whole instances to provide help for it or you can do them all alone for the glamour/pet/mount/whatever they loot. Gonna be fun soloing Eureka in 5.0.

Yeah, you see so much blue mage in Eureka I can't believe it but not as much in orbonne monastery don't know why... Can't understand why, there is so much to do with it once the carnival done... Ho yeah they were doing 2.0 stuff that isn't relevant and have nothing to provide anymore for like a week or so.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Yup, exactly like 2.0 and 3.0, meaning they didn't adress the problem at all.

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They adressed a big issue. Having something else to do for people who are bored to death of tome farming but are still supposed to do it through the whole expansions. Forgive me for not shedding a tear to your few weeks of boredom.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Yeah, you see so much blue mage in Eureka I can't believe it

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A content you apparently despise...

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Originally Posted by Nariel

but not as much in orbonne monastery don't know why...

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A content you complain having nothing to do in the whole game except running it...

Nice moving goalpost there.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

They adressed a big issue. Having something else to do for people who are bored to death of tome farming but are still supposed to do it through the whole expansions. Forgive me for not shedding a tear to your few weeks of boredom.

A content you apparently despise...

A content you complain having nothing to do in the whole game apart from running it...

Nice moving goalpost there.

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Its not that Eureka shouldn't exist, its about how much it take just for a very low part of the playerbase, how much reward are hidden in it to bait people who don't like it at all in it.

Of course I despise it, mainly because I have no other choice than doing it for my relic than anything else.

Once you get your loot you have no point doing it again in the whole week if you even need the loot/tomes from roulettes. They were exemple, can say the same for the story dungeon were blue can't go, or any 3.0-4.0 content I could have needed for my relic if it wasn't stuck in a huge pile of crap.

Plus, if the way the game work since 2.0 bother you so much why are you even subscribing, dungeon and primal are like the main part of the game of course the game will make you farm them a lot. Its like complaiging about having to look for weapon and kill people in a battle royal, asking dev's to make you dig for weapon part with shovel you find in chest randomly and the first guy to get one win.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Yup, exactly like 2.0 and 3.0, meaning they didn't adress the problem at all. Not like you can get usefull tomestone out of 2.0/3.0 roulettes without needing a whole instances to provide help for it or you can do them all alone for the glamour/pet/mount/whatever they loot. Gonna be fun soloing Eureka in 5.0.

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They did address it, they developed an entire new content for relic with 4 zones, tons of new NM's and endgame dungeon and so on. Sorry but this is miles above running the some old standard content for tomestones ad nauseum because that sure was a ton of fun.

Relative to soloing Eureka we'll have to wait and see but let me just say I'm not willing to trust your crystal ball as to how the content will be adjusted for non prime time playing when Shadowbringers hits. Then again those with crystal balls predicted that Anemos would be dead in a month here on this forum and that sure didn't happen. The relic sages here on this forum have been poo poo'ing relic for as long as I can remember.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Its not that Eureka shouldn't exist, its about how much it take just for a very low part of the playerbase, how much reward are hidden in it to bait people who don't like it at all in it.

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Got to love the Bait people brigade with the rewards in content forcing people to do it. That could be said of ANY CONTENT. All content has rewards and this idea they are put in Eureka to bait people is ridiculous. They need to remove rewards then from Savage, Extreme Primals, 24 man raids, HoH, POTD and so on.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Its not that Eureka shouldn't exist, its about how much it take just for a very low part of the playerbase, how much reward are hidden in it to bait people who don't like it at all in it.

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"You" (As in, the people that blame Eureka for what was removed) lost a grand total of 3 dungeons, content that no ones specifially cares because they offer no specific rewards, and people simply run their roulette every day and end in whatever dungeon that game put them into. And like it was said numerous, remove mounts, glamour, orchestion rolls, mascot from every content, and everything would be dead in a mere months.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Of course I despise it, mainly because I have no other choice than doing it for my relic than anything else.

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Doing the relic is also your choice. SE has provided every gear people needed to run any content. The rest is on you.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Plus, if the way the game work since 2.0 bother you so much why are you even subscribing, dungeon and primal are like the main part of the game of course the game will make you farm them a lot. Its like complaining about having to look for weapon and asking dev's to provide NpC that give mini quest you have do to to win the game.

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Sorry, which one of us is the one complaining that not every single piece of content the game catters to their view ? And to answer your question, I'm still there specifically because they realised they should create something else than "straight lines with three bosses and trash between" or "bosses in a circle room".

I'd agree if the relic was an active part of the content and not a bonus you get while doing it. The weapon isn't mention once in the whole story, having it don't change anything and you can do the whole Eureka storyline without talking to Gerolt more than once per starting quest.

Eureka isn't at all about the relic, its in here just because otherwise only the minority of people liking the content would do it, providing almost no data for their weird experiment.

Having reward is ok, but then why don't we get it once we finish then, finishing those quest give no reward at all not even elemental exp, unlike dungeon were you automaticaly get something in the end, be it tomes or exp + the opportunity to roll for gear every chest. Unlike Eureka where you have to give your soul to an endlessly low rng fest and stay hours and hours in it without any certitude you'll ever get it.

I don't complaign about PvP even if I hate it, I'm annoyed by those haircut locked in it sure but, they are easy to get, I don't need to win and I'm 100% sure to get them if I wanted. I don't need PvP for anything else, PvP won't give me any usefull weapon for raiding/doing anything else the game provide. Unlike Eureka, locking those haircuts behind very low RNG and locking the 100% BiS weapon we normaly get by playing casualy.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

I don't complaign about PvP even if I hate it, I'm annoyed by those haircut locked in it sure but, they are easy to get, I don't need to win and I'm 100% sure to get them if I wanted. I don't need PvP for anything else, PvP won't give me any usefull weapon for raiding/doing anything else the game provide. Unlike Eureka, locking those haircuts behind very low RNG

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Except that again, you can buy those haircuts on the MB without ever stepping foot into Eureka, along with 2 mounts, several orchestrion rolls, glamours, furniture and minions. How exactly are people being "forced" into doing Eureka if they don't like it?

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Originally Posted by Nariel

I'd agree if the relic was an active part of the content and not a bonus you get while doing it.

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The relc being a bonus means you have even less reason to coerce yourself into doing it. It's not like you will miss an important part of the Lore if you skip it entirely. And past relics were not more tied to their "content" than this one, as the quest were basically "Go do things you already do and your weapon will like it".

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Eureka isn't at all about the relic, its in here just because otherwise only the minority of people liking the content would do it, providing almost no data for their weird experiment.

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Like every other piece of content. Or you have a Lore explanation on the gear you find in Omega ? How it's tied to the whole "story" of Omega. Or why each EX Primal happens to carry a dog whistle around and that gathering all those whistles (From creatures that sometimes have no connection whatsoever to each other) actually allows you to summon a nine-tailed fox ? Come on, the final ARR Primal mount has more connection with the Four Lords than the mounts you get after beating their EX version.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

I don't need PvP for anything else, PvP won't give me any usefull weapon for raiding/doing anything else the game provide.

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You don't need Eureka for anything else. The Eureka weapon was behind other weapons available faster for the whole SB lifecycle, except Hydatos, released 4 months after the last Savage tier, meaning if you were ever seriously interested in it, you'd have cleared it already. Which is frankly funny considering how much people actually complained because Eureka gear was weak...which begs even more the question of why did they bother doing it if they didn't like Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

The same thing can be said about Anima relics. Obtaining the minion doesn't necessarily mean you got the final Lux version, since it's one of the prerequisite quests to start the quest "Best Friends Forever" that will get you the Lux version. Someone might only want the minion, so they stopped after getting it. We can't tell how many got their final relic in that case. Maybe a lot just did it for minion, maybe not.

But anyhow, We can still use the numbers as a definite mean of determining how many players reached a milestone in each content. And since the number of those who went through all the way to the minion stage of the Anima is still that low compared to Eureka after all these years, then I highly question those who say the previous relic quest style was more successful.

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Of course we cant use the numbers to say who finished the relic after they got the minion either but at least we know that those numbers are purely relic ones. (Yes people could have done it only for the minion too but they still needed to finish the relic steps before that to get there, while you dont have to finish a relic to level up and go to other eurekas) So at least those amount of people have gotten that far in their relic. Eureka numbers dont tell us much in that regards thus cant be really compared so no I dont think we just should use them for determinig some milestones.

In the end Eureka was also not only something for the relic but a new casual content that was advertised quite a bit before SB. Yet the numbers speak more of a niche content and not of something widely successfull. Thus why someone posted these numbers in the thread in the first place before you used them to compare relics. Its an indicator if we really should get more Eureka content in 5.0 especially if they still put that much work behind it.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

In the end Eureka was also not only something for the relic but a new casual content that was advertised quite a bit before SB. Yet the numbers speak more of a niche content and not of something widely successfull. Thus why someone posted these numbers in the thread in the first place before you used them to compare relics. Its an indicator if we really should get more Eureka content in 5.0 especially if they still put that much work behind it.

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Why would you not use them to compare relics? And relative to the old relics any numbers for those today would be seriously inflated after they dumbed down the process making them essentially giveaways compared to when those relics first released let alone the amount of time people have had to actually work on those.

Relative to 5.0 I would hope we get more than just a recycled Eureka Stormblood. I suppose we'll actually have to wait and see what they have in mind before condemning and making judgements about what is to come.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Why would you not use them to compare relics? And relative to the old relics any numbers for those today would be seriously inflated after they dumbed down the process making them essentially giveaways compared to when relic first released let alone the amount of time people had to actually work on those.

Relative to 5.0 I would hope we get more than just a recycled Eureka Stormblood. I suppose we'll actually have to wait and see what they have in mind before condemning and making judgements about what is to come.

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Because there is a huge amount of other reasons people reached level cap in Pyros. You dont need the relic to get there thus using it to compare it to something else is not correct. Someone could simply play Eureka for the story, someone might just want to earn certain rewards and in farming for them they could reach the cap. Some might just help out friends and have nothing else to do but dont want to grind for a relic. Some might simply be interested in doing the first public dungeon in this game and so on. There are so many reasons why someone could reach lvl cap, especially since reaching level cap is already way faster than getting your relic in the newer zones. So we simply dont know how many of those also have the relic. It could be nearly all of them, it could be half of them. Thus it would be bad (imo) to compare those numbers because they could paint the wrong picture.

If we would have gotten a title or minion or something for getting the relic in one of the steps in Eurkea and they have those numbers, then its fine to compare it. But right now? There is no indicator on how many of those have one and how many of those are simply in there for different rewards.

For us I believe its much more important to know if the content is truly beloved and successfull with the playerbase (and the numbers speak for a more niche content) thus if any further investment from the devs is good or not.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Yes, because it is a niche content. I've put the quote in my signature, I'm tired of searching it everytime.
And no "But is has mount and haircuts, and it cost ressources" are not proof that it'a wide audience content.

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If they truly wanted this to be only for a niche anyway, why take such a huge amount of time and who knows how much budget to create this? Why put so much behind it including the relic without giving us another option to get it? Why does that have hairstyles and emotes, while other niche content like the Ultimates have barely any rewards? Where is the content for the rest of the casual playerbase that makes up most of the games numbers? (And yes I mean complete new content, not the next ex primae) The only thing that can be done a bit more casually is HoH and even that only had 30 floors to the casuals..so where is it? Why would they create more and more niche content that costs much money and time when most of the playerbase wont play it? Or could it be that Eureka was intended to be that, especially with the relic weapon behind it and somehow turned out different?

In the end if they introduce this again in 5.x they really need to have something else for the casual players too.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

If we would have gotten a title or minion or something for getting the relic in one of the steps in Eurkea and they have those numbers, then its fine to compare it. But right now? There is no indicator on how many of those have one and how many of those are simply in there for different rewards

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So stop poo pooing the process then cause you really don't know and people can try and push their interpretation of those numbers to suit their agenda but you're kidding yourself if you think many are doing it for the supplemental rewards and not the relic itself. And this process isn't anymore niche than the last relic.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

In the end Eureka was also not only something for the relic but a new casual content that was advertised quite a bit before SB. Yet the numbers speak more of a niche content and not of something widely successfull.

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Yes, because it is a niche content.
And no, "But is has mounts and haircuts, and it cost ressources" are not proof that it's wide audience content.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Because there is a huge amount of other reasons people reached level cap in Pyros. [...] There are so many reasons why someone could reach lvl cap, especially since reaching level cap is already way faster than getting your relic in the newer zones.

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I'm confused. Didn't people complain that Eureka had nothing to offer apart from the weapon ? Or are still complaining that leveling is so slow that it's unbearable to reach Hydatos ?

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Originally Posted by Gralna

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Since when buying stuff out of the MB is a fun gameplay mecanic ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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You're not even trying are you ?

Of course I don't miss anything not doing it, except the isle of val story, the weapon I waited and work for every patch since 2.0 and Eureka relic as nothing to do with its precedent iteration since you can only get it by doing eureka activity inside eureka progressing only eureka and can't even progress or have fun with my friends doing so.

Precedent relics had a lore, so does the primal ponies. The gear sure don't have most of the time and are reward for winning the said content, as I already said, reward locked in aren't as much as much a problem as how hard they are. They're in for making people stay far longuer than they really want to.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

So stop poo pooing the process then cause you really don't know and people can try and push their interpretation of those numbers to suit their agenda but you're kidding yourself if you think many are doing it for the supplemental rewards and not the relic itself. And this process isn't anymore niche than the last relic.

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And somehow they can prove that these numbers are purely relic only? We already have people that posted on this very forum that they are not doing it for the relic and only to get certain mounts, emotes and hairstyles. I myself have only done Anemos to get the Rex mount and I would only do any further Eureka for mounts and stuff like that. So yes I and others that have posted their opinion about this are already proof enough that people do it for reasons other than the relic thus those numbers are not reliable.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

So yes I and others that have posted their opinion about this are already proof enough that people do it for reasons other than the relic thus those numbers are not reliable.

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So what percent are doing them for the rewards? Do you know? No you don't but you'll massage and push those numbers to suit your agenda won't you.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

If they truly wanted this to be only for a niche anyway, why take such a huge amount of time and who knows how much budget to create this?

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Exactly, "no one knows how much budget", yet people claim that it's too much budget. As for the time, why should we care ? It didn't delay anything else, they took the time they wanted to make the content they seemed important to include in the game. They know that part of their playerbase wanted something different than the core formula, and they provided it. If you only care about "ressource efficiency", then we shouldn't have Savage, Ultimate or PvP, they could simply bring back more hard mode of existing dungeons, since they reuse a lot of existing assets.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Why put so much behind it including the relic without giving us another option to get it?

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Why should another option be mandatory ? You don't have another option for PvP gear. You don't have another option for each primal weapon or mount, and you definitely don't have another option for Savage gear. What you don't want to do is Eureka being the only way to obtain a powerful weapon when you don't want to raid, and it's not. Tome gear provides every access you're in right to demand, that's all they're entitled to give you.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Why does that have hairstyles and emotes, while other niche content like the Ultimates have barely any rewards?

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Because it's a big zone, and people should be rewarded for targeting the most NM available instead of always rotating the same ones.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Where is the content for the rest of the casual playerbase that makes up most of the games numbers? (And yes I mean complete new content, not the next ex primal)

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Gold Saucer having new attractions is new contet, Secret Temple of Uznair is new content, Blue Mage is new content, unranked PvP is new content, all normal trials are new content.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Why would they create more and more niche content that costs much money and time when most of the playerbase wont play it?

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They created two chains of contents for people willing to invest their skill, and one chain of content for people willing to invest their time. That's three content for the whole game, making it still largely a casual game.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

So what percent are doing them for the rewards? Do you know? No you don't but you'll massage and push those numbers to suit your agenda won't you.

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No I dont know the right percent but at least I do know people here and myself that do it thus the numbers are 100% not relic only. That way the other side also dont know the right numbers thus using it to compare relics point blank is nothing but pushing the agenda that this is better for the relic. ;)

Its like going to a festival that has x different smaller events and then saying that all people that went to the festival also took part in event number x just because its one of the main ones. You simply cant prove it without certain methods (like everyone getting a certain bracelet if they went to this event and then counting the bracelet afterwards)

@Reynhart:

Well then I ask it differently: Where is the big new battle endgame content for casual players in SB? (Since Eureka is battle content too) Gold Saucer is not battle content (if that would count for new casual content that should please the majority of the players then that would be a low bar), the new treasure maps are new in the way that its a new path but not completely new either because we already had that one in HW. PVP is also niche in itself and all trials are counted under the usual stuff that we always get. So maybe Blue can be new which was not received that well either and seemingly died quite fast. So in the end if we really compare the niche Eureka to other content then they got much more new stuff (I mean a public dungeon, the new logos system) even though its niche (heck I would even say that this is much bigger than all the Ultimates together) while the majority of the playerbase only got a limited job with the carnival and new maps for exisiting content..I would say that they might have their priorities a bit wrong.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

If we would have gotten a title or minion or something for getting the relic in one of the steps in Eurkea and they have those numbers, then its fine to compare it. But right now? There is no indicator on how many of those have one and how many of those are simply in there for different rewards.

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There are achievements for each the final step in each zone. Yes, they don't offer any awards or titles, but these can be used to measure.

https://i.imgur.com/7wnHy7x.png

Inb4 not everyone has achievements turned on: not everyone is going to parade their award or title all the time everywhere either.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

No I dont know the right percent but at least I do know people here and myself that do it thus the numbers are 100% not relic only. That way the other side also dont know the right numbers thus using it to compare relics point blank is nothing but pushing the agenda that this is better for the relic. ;)

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I haven't used the numbers. I'm responding to the Eureka brigade who is trying to use them to poo poo the current relic as niche but it's not more niche than the last relic and if one takes the numbers at face value they appear to indicate (which the devs have said Eureka is more popular than they expected) to be more popular. ;)

I have no way of knowing how many are doing them for the rewards but my feelings are they are fairly small and that the incentive for the content is the relic itself.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Where is the big new battle endgame content for casual players in SB? (Since Eureka is battle content too)

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You're joking right? For relics in Heavensward we didn't get new content we got the privilege of running all the old content a zillion times for tomes.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

There are achievements for each the final step in each zone. Yes, they don't offer any awards or titles, but these can be used to measure.

https://i.imgur.com/7wnHy7x.png

Inb4 not everyone has achievements turned on: not everyone is going to parade their award or title all the time everywhere either.

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Well then we should just wait till someone gives us those numbers and then we can use them to compare. :) But those that where used are the regular lvl cap Pyros numbers.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I haven't used the numbers. I'm responding to the Eureka brigade who is trying to use them to poo pop the current relic as niche but it's not more niche than the last relic and if one takes the numbers at face value they appear to indicate (which the devs have said Eureka is more popular than they expected) to be more popular. ;)

I have no way of knowing how many are doing them for the rewards but my feelings are they are fairly small and that the incentive for the content is the relic itself.

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The only thing I said about the relic in Eureka is that the old one at least did not need much work to create since they mostly used old content. So if SE truly just created all of this just for the relic then I wonder if that really counts as success since this is 100% more work to create than just some new items and the quests. So in that way its not much more successfull imo because barely that many more have it while the work put into it was much greater and at least the feedback on this forum was much more negative. (So you could say that it was still quite the niche content for the relic but with more negative discussions about it and much more work for the devs too)

But of course that is only with the numbers that we have right now which (and that was my main point) we can only truly use to argue for or against Eureka itself (which was the way the OP of these numbers did) and not the relic because you can do it for other stuff too.

The problem isn’t the grind or the gating of the relic etc. Etc. Even though it’s more work than the previous ones imo and it’s a play style that is pretty divergent from what ff14 has been.

The real issue is that they plan on doing this AGAIN. Can we get numbers? I’m really curious to see how many people have accomplished which step of their relic and how this compares with relics of the past.

Also the relics were meant as an option for more casual players that didn’t necessarily savage raid. Ironically all the people I know who’ve made it past pagos are part of the more hardcore player base. What are we players missing that SE can see and that justifies doing this AGAIN in 5.0

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Well then I ask it differently: Where is the big new battle endgame content for casual players in SB?

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Let me reverse the question : If you consider that there's no battle content for casual players, what are Expert dungeons, normal trials, normal raids, and alliance raids ?

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Also the relics were meant as an option for more casual players that didn’t necessarily savage raid.

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The Relic in ARR was. Since HW, everyone has access to the Tome weapon without serious raiding. They also created wondrous tails to keep old content alive, removing the other purpose of the old relic. Once the two goals were covered, it was time to give the relic its own content.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

HoH has a value when you reach floors 31 - 100 if you want the pony mount and the rare drops from you can only get after floor 30 (like the dodo mount). It's not just for leveling. Take the rewards out and why would people bother doing it up to floor 100 more than once?



There you go, you would only bother with doing a hard content like savage if it's worth the effort (e.g. when it becomes unsynced I would assume). So what if there were no rewards from savage? Orbonne is fun but how many times would you actually do it if there was 0 rewards for it? For me, I only did it three times in total. First time for the clear and two times to help friends. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who wouldn't bother doing it that much if it weren't for the rewards. But I don't consider them as bad content because of that.

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You wish, with HoH having expiration date I meant that there is no reason to do it outside of leveling once you clear floor 100 five times, but guess what, HoH atleast serves a purpose, and in 5.0 it will be more active than Eureka at any point in time because people will go to level the new classes there. Eureka will be dead, forever, because it serves no purpose, at all.

And about savage, just an example, I did clear the tier of God Kefka up to Guardian first week with pugs in PF and second week I bothered looking for a static because I liked the glamours, I only bother looking for statics to do savage if the glamour is worth or the raid is actually something fun and special and not just two more mechanics than normal mode.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Let me reverse the question : If you consider that there's no battle content for casual players, what are Expert dungeons, normal trials, normal raids, and alliance raids ?

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I see this as the standard content we always get. The absolute minimum of an expansion (and we do get even less of that). Something that is there to get tomestones and maybe some glamour but not something that will keep people playing the game. (Only if you put some rewards behind it that have horrible RNG to get it)

In HW PotD was new casual content because it was something completely new to this game, you could casually work towards weapons and other rewards and people had 100 floors to clear with randoms. And on top of that you could try it solo, or with 1-3 other friends. Then on top of that people got their challenge with 100 extra floors. But it did not take away that you still got 100 floors that you could even do with randoms. And to make it even better you could use it to level up other jobs and to give these other jobs nice weapons. HoH is just another paint job of PotD thus I dont count it as new anymore and sadly they also took away so many floors for the casual playerbase. Just 30 floors which you can do in an hour if you are fast and 70 floors for those who wanted a challenge. Thus HoH has also turned a bit away from casual content.

The treasure maps are nice but they are not there to keep people playing longer. You dont level up your character, you dont get great weapons or stuff from it, its just simply there if you need a break from the rest of it and I like it but its nothing compared to huge Eureka.

Diadem also was something that I saw as casual. You could just queue up and then just do your thing. Be it gathering, or just fighting stuff. You did not even need to follow your group and you feared no consequences when you died. So in that way it was still quite casual but people did not find it to be fun long enough and on top of that the rewards you got from this also did not keep it alive. Thus casual content that was a failure because it did not really give the people something for their time.

Well what do we have truly new in SB? Well Eureka. But now suddenly after teasing us for months with this, its only niche content like Ultimate? But somehow the once casual relic weapon got also put in there? So do they want to say that relics are not anymore for casuals? So what is exactly for casuals anymore? What new content is there for the most of us? Why take one casual weapon away from us?

Eureka the thing that got more content than Ultimate together, but is somehow still niche. Did we ever had a content that was completely that isolated from normal content yet that big too? I mean so many landscapes just for it, the first 56 man public dungeon, a new fighting system too and its own leveling system with a death penalty. All this for niche content? All this for not even 20% of the JP playerbase, and even less than 10% for NA/EU(and we dont even have the numbers for the last one either)? Why? Where is the even more huge content for the rest of us?

Again I have no problem if we do have something like that but only if we have enough new battle stuff for the most of us. (I mean I dont raid but I am still happy that others got their Ultimates because at least they said that nothing was cut for that) I mean how much more different content could have been produced if they only did one Eureka and not four? If maybe it was just Anemos with logos actions and one public dungeon at the end and the rest would have been used for truly casual content? Why so much time and budget for such niche content? (And no I dont know how much it was in numbers but you just have to look at the size of the landscapes, new monsters, new actions and more and see that this is quite the work)

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You're joking right? For relics in Heavensward we didn't get new content we got the privilege of running all the old content a zillion times for tomes.

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Why are you using that quote for relics? I asked Reynhart where the casual content is in SB if Eureka was always planned as only niche content. Eureka is battle content and for me more than just a way to get relics (but for someone that wants the relics the only way to get it) thus this question had nothing to do with relic weapons and more with content itself.

This topic is about the whole Eureka and not about the relics itself, which are just one part of it.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I see this as the standard content we always get. The absolute minimum of an expansion (and we do get even less of that). Something that is there to get tomestones and maybe some glamour but not something that will keep people playing the game. (Only if you put some rewards behind it that have horrible RNG to get it)

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Standard content is casual content. Gearing one job with basic tome gear requires 14 weeks of subscription for each even patch, and upgrading that gear requires at least 10 weeks of subscription for each odd patch. If a casual players actually want to stay closer to max ilvl, he has plenty of reason to come back into the game each week, especially if he has more than one job at level 70.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Did we ever had a content that was completely that isolated from normal content yet that big too?

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Yes, we did, it's called PvP.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Where is the even more huge content for the rest of us?

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Why should people that, by definition, have less time to play should have a more huge content ?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

This topic is about the whole Eureka and not about the relics itself, which are just one part of it.

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No you're talking about new battle content and where is it as if Eureka stole it away from you in Stormblood but didn't do so in Heavensward? Isn't that your implication? The point is we got lots of new battle content is Eureka but you choose not to do it. We got nothing new in Stormblood other than recycled content in Heavensward and ARR.

Your attempt to keep trying to push relic in Stormblood as niche while ignoring it's not more niche in Stormblood than it was in Heavensward and appears to be actually more popular. Here we got a lot of new content for relic where we didn't get that in HW. Sorry if that new content doesn't meet with your approval.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Standard content is casual content. Gearing one job with basic tome gear requires 14 weeks of subscription for each even patch, and upgrading that gear requires at least 10 weeks of subscription for each odd patch. If a casual players actually want to stay closer to max ilvl, he has plenty of reason to come back into the game each week, especially if he has more than one job at level 70.

Yes, we did, it's called PvP.

Why should people that, by definition, have less time to play should have a more huge content ?

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Again standard content is standard content. You wont keep a lot of the casual players playing if you only have a couple of dungeons, trials and the two raids. They are nice, they are necessary but they are also done fast. Which is already a problem with each new patch because people are often finishing it fast and if you are not a raider or like Eureka (which as you said is only for a niche anyway) then you have nothing else to grind for thus nothing else to sub for.

You are right PVP is a huge thing but honestly still niche (and kinda a bit dead for quite some maps) and not that isolated like Eureka. You can level up your characters there (which was probably a change done to get more people to play it) and work towards some rewards but in the end its still niche content.

About more huge content for players with less time: Because like PotD even if you dont have much time you can work towards your goal slowly, without having to grind it hardcore at the start of a patch and still get something out of it all the time. Also because the standard content we have dont hold up for long. If you dont want to grind if for some glamours you might just do your dailies and be done with that content. So what now? Here it would be perfect to have casual content that you can do on your own time.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

No you're talking about new battle content and where is it as if Eureka stole it away from you in Stormblood but didn't do so in Heavensward? Isn't that your implication? The point is we got lots of new battle content is Eureka but you choose not to do it. We got nothing new in Stormblood other than recycled content in Heavensward and ARR.

Your attempt to keep trying to push relic in Stormblood as niche while ignoring it's not more niche in Stormblood than it was in Heavensward and appears to be actually more popular. Here we got a lot of new content for relic where we didn't get that in HW. Sorry if that new content doesn't meet with your approval.

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The only thing where I talked about the relic was a few pages back when someone said that we are never happy as customers and when someone used Eureka numbers to make a point about it. Otherwise I am talking about battle content itself which Eureka is, but as numbers show and as Reynhard tries to say, its somehow niche content thus not for the casual players.

In HW we got new battle content, it was called PoTD and then we got two versions of Diadem. Sadly both Diadems failed but they were still quite casual content. The only thing that is truly new in SB is Eureka which, if we can Yoshidas quote for real, was always meant to just be something niche. So where is the true casual battle content?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

No you're talking about new battle content and where is it as if Eureka stole it away from you in Stormblood but didn't do so in Heavensward? Isn't that your implication? The point is we got lots of new battle content is Eureka but you choose not to do it. We got nothing new in Stormblood other than recycled content in Heavensward and ARR.

Your attempt to keep trying to push relic in Stormblood as niche while ignoring it's not more niche in Stormblood than it was in Heavensward and appears to be actually more popular. Here we got a lot of new content for relic where we didn't get that in HW. Sorry if that new content doesn't meet with your approval.

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Afk in the camp and run to fates when they spawn isn't battle content.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

Afk in the camp and run to fates when they spawn isn't battle content.

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Oh so that's how you play it right. You're one of those sit and let other do the work for you got it.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Oh so that's how you play it right. You're one of those sit and let other do the work for you got it.

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I don't even do Eureka but whatever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's what you see on every single map when you enter, all max level people afk while the new low level has to suffer spawning anything.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

About more huge content for players with less time: Because like PotD even if you dont have much time you can work towards your goal slowly, without having to grind it hardcore at the start of a patch and still get something out of it all the time. Also because the standard content we have dont hold up for long. If you dont want to grind if for some glamours you might just do your dailies and be done with that content. So what now? Here it would be perfect to have casual content that you can do on your own time.

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You can work on Eureka very slowly. No need to rush at all. From Anemos to Hydatos there is always a full instance going.
You could just log in, join an instance, do some fates for 30-60 mins, or do some challenge log and log out again.
No need to rush or no-life it at all. You sound like you never really tried the content you are hating on.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

I don't even do Eureka but whatever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's what you see on every single map when you enter.

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Oh you did... got to elemental 38 correct so you did do it. At least keep your story consistent. And yes there are people who afk and leech off others and there are those who engage the content as it was intended. That's a personal choice.