Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

. Eventually they will give up on it and tick "activate party parser" and before long df will be the same it has always been+parser enabled.

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Or they can just get better? I don't see why we have to let bad players stay bad. Contrary to what all the tryhards in PF that want to set up farm parties a week after content gets released *coughcoughcactuarcoughcough* would have you believe, there ARE sherpas out there who are ready willing and able to help unskilled yet willing and eager players out there. It just takes marginal effort to find them

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

The counter argument for this, in that scenario where the DPS refuse to put up their numbers, their refusal will exacerbate the situation by the fact 3rd party recording of DPS is actually inaccurate as things like DoT ticks or DoT crits are estimated. Therefore, their numbers are likely to be underestimated and thus the party leader will have to make a judgement on inaccurate data from his own program. The official parser will be expected to be both precise and accurate because it has access to various damage functions which 3rd party ones will never be able to, even with RAM scanning. For example, just recently as 10-11th of November, an error in the way a common parser records DoTs completely messed up the DRG leaderboards because the DoT ticks were overestimated, leading to highly padded and inaccurate figures.

And also in that scenario where the DPS check is failed and the DPS do nothing for fear of harassment, that is a poor excuse for owning up to your mistakes. Healers and Tanks have to deal with this constant judgement already, only because their performance is immediately obvious, DPS should not be exempt from this.

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I agree hence why i was saying a private parser doesn't really work as a halfway measure for those seeking to curb harassment yet still see their numbers.

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Originally Posted by Elazu

I take it the question of why tanks and healers should be the only ones with responsibilities and dps players should get a free carry just for playing a dps job has still not been answered by the anti-parser crowd?

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Nah that one never gets a direct answer, I've even brought it up myself half a dozen times in the other threads.

Tanks and Healers are expected to perform their main roles without fail to the various whims of whatever parties they join, while also trying to make up any additional DPS the party is lacking, but yet we aren't allowed to expect DPS to perform their own roles in the party even though the majority of endgame content is designed around DPS players pulling their weight.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

Why do people always think that people who are not pro parsers are always bad players? What the heck is this?

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The logic usually follows that players who are performing well either wouldn't care about being parsed or would want to see their numbers for improvement.

This isn't always the case obviously and there are plenty of good players I've known who don't really want parsers to be added as a game feature, that being said however they also aren't against their addition nor would they really care if someone wanted to parse them.

So personally i don't think anyone not pro parser is a bad player, just like not everyone who is pro parser is a good player.

The ones that are though are more likely to improve.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

Why do people always think that people who are not pro parsers are always bad players? What the heck is this?

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why would you not want a parser in the game if you know you aren't bad? a parser would help you to further improve in certain fights, check the difference in your performance based on different pieces of gear and also for the runs where you aren't getting everything right show you how much of an impact it is having, show you the difference between using potions and not using them, different foods and so on its full of potential to help you improve. Meanwhile the only reason some people don't want a parser is they are afraid that they might be terrible, they will disagree on that point but at the same time their deep down fear is that they will put out such terrible numbers that they will be removed from every group they join.

The only real "hard" content are current PF only
If ppl really so obsessed with the tool
We could have so kind of measurement in PF
Leave DF as it is now
Most importantly set the clear definition about harrassment and actually give out punishment about it
For ppl will be happy they finally see no. In "hard" content
Against ppl can make Party without no. If they want that content
And causal community stay with DF content

You have a solution already, thats simple:
You DPS as hard as you can, if you cant steal aggro from the tank YOU DPS MOAR until he flames and kick you.
That's how you know you're doing good DPS.

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Originally Posted by meldon90

You have a solution already, thats simple:
You DPS as hard as you can, if you cant steal aggro from the tank YOU DPS MOAR until he flames and kick you.
That's how you know you're doing good DPS.

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Heavy Swing,
Heavy Swing,
Heavy Swing,
Heavy Swing,
Heavy Swing,
Heavy Swing,
Heavy Swing,
You getting the hint yet?
Heavy Swing,
Heavy Swing,
Heavy Swing,
Heavy Swing,
I am gud tank.

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Originally Posted by Kona_Nightwind

Parsers are really bad. They were originally created by the CIA for mind control. They have a direct link to the JFK assassination and every other major assassination attempt in the 20th century.

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I can confirm this. My cousin's friend's uncle's cat used a parser and killed many a bird.

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

First, you're a prime example of why the anti-parsing argument is immature and naive. If you nearly resorted to transferring servers because a few people harassed you over being a new tank, that's a serious problem. Not everyone is going to have only nice things to say. In fact, not everyone SHOULD have only nice things to say. You can't merely run away from every less-than-flowery thing someone says on the internet. The true solution, the one that would solve the whole situation, is that people need to grow up. So what if people are asshats? At the end of the day is it really going to harm you? Brush it off and move on like an adult. Everyone else has to do it. Its an unavoidable fact of life that people are horrible - each and every one of them. Just deal with it like we all have to.

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I disagree, people are not inherently bad. Some people are just driven to do bad things, often due to their environment. This may be being raised with poor parenting, in a dangerous neighbourhood or being bullied. In a video game, research has shown that the most common thing to cause anger is frustration. In this context, I can see frustration from many things, such as:
1. You've been grinding the same instance over and over and over for a drop, and someone is slowing you down
2. You only can log on for a short while and want to maximize what you can do, but someone is slowing you down
3. You've worked really hard to improve your DPS, meanwhile that guy over there is just pressing 1
etc.

I agree with you, that we all run into people who don't treat us with respect once in awhile, and that we have to shrug it off to some extent (report it, if it's that bad). I know that I've once felt like quitting and shed a tear due to someone's words via this game, but I didn't and I did move on.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

The only real "hard" content are current PF only
If ppl really so obsessed with the tool
We could have so kind of measurement in PF
Leave DF as it is now
Most importantly set the clear definition about harrassment and actually give out punishment about it
For ppl will be happy they finally see no. In "hard" content
Against ppl can make Party without no. If they want that content
And causal community stay with DF content

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This suggests that someone would only want to improve themselves while doing hard content. This also suggests that "hard" content is the same thing for everyone, which it clearly isn't.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

No, it is not a norm in PC MMO, only about 40% of my PC MMO have it so commonly use in general public

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Where do you get this number?
EDIT: sorry you said on your specific computer, I'm guessing you then have 5 MMO's installed with 2 having a parser? I am doubtful that you have every MMO installed and have an accurate number for all MMO's?



Not having a parser makes me think of playing a sports game without stats. You don't see the goals, hits, assists, points, shots etc.. all you know is at the end of the game you've either won or lost. Sure, it's doable and you could even try tracking that stuff yourself, but no sports game does this.

Parsers without proper knowledge on how to interprete them are just useless, and most people if not all dont know how to interprete what they read, they only see numbers and judge based on those numbers and not put them into context, healer not DPSing...why?...tank not dpsing why?...BRD poorly performing why ? BLM poorly performing why ?....you never see that asked or so rarely that it is just in the unheard Spectrum. The important isnt to say *get good* is to understand WHY things are happening, to be honest you all want perfect player but instead of trying ot help them, you all stigmatize them and as a result you all are complaining that people are not good or people dont help otehrs to get better. Maybe the solution is not in the parser that will just increase and give a reason official this time to frustrate even more new players or poorly geared players or what not but in everyone of us to help ohters to become better, not only friends....you know like a community would work for the good of the community..eh?

Not to mention teh stronger helping the weaker..that too exists..you know

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

Parsers without proper knowledge on how to interprete them are just useless, and most people if not all dont know how to interprete what they read, they only see numbers and judge based on those numbers and not put them into context, healer not DPSing...why?...tank not dpsing why?...BRD poorly performing why ? BLM poorly performing why ?....you never see that asked or sorarely that it is just in the unheard Spectrum.

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Some people not being able to understand information is not really a great reason to withhold the information from everyone. Imagine that happened with the news, "Today, we are removing all of our headlines, as we've discovered a portion of our reader-base does not properly understand the current events."

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

The important isnt to say *get good* is to understand WHY things are happening, to be honest you all want perfect player but instead of trying ot help them, you all stigmatize them and as a result you all are complaining that people are not good or people dont help otehrs to get better. Maybe the solution is not in the parser that will just increase and give a reason official this time to frustrate even more new players or poorly geared players or what not but in everyone of us to help ohters to become better, not only friends....you know like a community would work for the good of the community..eh?

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Why are you prejudging our actions and words. I have many times helped out other people. However, with a parser it would be easier.. for example:

Situation 1:
Me: Hey, SMN, btw you should be using Ruin II and auto attack, spamming painflare/fester/raging/fester/deathflare/aether/tri-disaster/fester (I am simplifying atm) to maximize your DPS.
SMN: Shut the f*** up, you play your job, I'll play mine.
Me: Actually, I am a SMN.
SMN: (silent for rest of the dungeon).

Situation 2:
Me: Hey, SMN, your DPS is a little low (he'll look over and see he is doing 600, while I am doing 1100), by (same as above)
SMN: Ah, OK, thanks


Obviously, I embellished, the first person doesn't need to respond that way and the 2nd person could be a jerk. However, the main point is having that value adds credibility to your advice.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

Not to mention teh stronger helping the weaker..that too exists..you know

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Get out of here Ronaldo Kuriki. I'd rather side with Yamato.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

you all want perfect player... you all stigmatize... you all are complaining

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is this actually aimed at anyone in particular, or just randomly "all of yous behind your pcs, this is all yous fault" *shakes fist*

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Not having a parser makes me think of playing a sports game without stats.

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To be fair: How many cooperative sports do you know? With that, I mean sports in which you do not compete against other players (directly or indirectly) but rather the environment, with a "win" condition that's completely independent.

I'm hard pressed to name a single one. Survival trips and maybe mountain climbing? The sports I know are all about players competing with each other (either alone or as team), rather than achieving a set, independent goal (together).

That said, how about requiring each dungeon/trial/raid to have two groups and only the first one to beat it gets loot? You can then rank people with their average clear times, DPS etc publicly and turn the game into a more typical sport. Not sure how much that'd be appreciated, though...

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Originally Posted by Zojha

To be fair: How many cooperative sports do you know? With that, I mean sports in which you do not compete against other players (directly or indirectly) but rather the environment, with a "win" condition that's completely independent.

I'm hard pressed to name a single one. Survival trips and maybe mountain climbing? The sports I know are all about players competing with each other (either alone or as team), rather than achieving a set, independent goal (together).

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The times I have played sports games in the past 15 years (since my brother moved out of country), I have exclusively played vs PC, and the stats were still there.

Further, there is PvP in this game, and it is not exclusively a PvE game (though I don't dabble in PvP here either).

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Originally Posted by Zojha

That said, how about requiring each dungeon/trial/raid to have two groups and only the first one to beat it gets loot? You can then rank people with their average clear times, DPS etc publicly and turn the game into a more typical sport. Not sure how much that'd be appreciated, though...

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While not a solution to the parser problem (in my opinion), I do think this could be a fun game mode.

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Originally Posted by Taika

Majority of really good players participate in hardest content (currently Savage and Thordan), and I don't know if there are any groups doing that content where no one parses (I really would be curious to know if there are any endgame statics where no one parses). Hence most really good players are at least parsed by others in their group even if they don't personally run a parser.

Of course you can be a good player who doesn't do any endgame content, but one might argue that to be a good player you have to at least follow a good rotation, which is again based on someone's parse.

Knowledge is power, it's really hard to be good if you have no actual knowledge on how you're really doing.

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This is the case w/ my static and others in our FC. The only players not parsing in our groups are on PS4 and constantly ask for their numbers. Which we are happy to provide and helps them tweak rotations or min max gear but there is a ton of other valuable info they are missing out on in those parses as well.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Further, there is PvP in this game, and it is not exclusively a PvE game (though I don't dabble in PvP here either).

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Yes, there is PvP in this game. It's shunted off into it's own areas away from PvE making the two effectively mutually exclusive. Sure, you can wear PvP gear for PvE content, but unlike other more PvP oriented MMOs the gear isn't exactly ideal for PvE. It's actually the other way around, with PvE gear better for PvP than the PvP gear is. Their point still stands, this is a PvE focused game. The PvP, much like Square's other MMO, is a tacked-on afterthought to try and make the PvP crowd happy. And yes, I know full well that Yoshida likes PvP. It doesn't change how it's been implemented in this game.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Yes, there is PvP in this game. It's shunted off into it's own areas away from PvE making the two effectively mutually exclusive. Sure, you can wear PvP gear for PvE content, but unlike other more PvP oriented MMOs the gear isn't exactly ideal for PvE. It's actually the other way around, with PvE gear better for PvP than the PvP gear is. Their point still stands, this is a PvE focused game. The PvP, much like Square's other MMO, is a tacked-on afterthought to try and make the PvP crowd happy. And yes, I know full well that Yoshida likes PvP. It doesn't change how it's been implemented in this game.

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I'm not sure how that is relevant to my original argument or analogy?

@ ryel

My apologies then but you shoulda made it clear you was PC DCUO player NOT a ps3 dcuo player as there was a huge difference between the 2. And dcuo is not cross platform, and ps3 version had a cess-pool community. Which is what people demostrated.

I wasn't trying to type that as a harrassment just an observation on how you have been posting, which is you quoyte a person and try to discredit their opinion.

@ poster mockinbg my harrassment as a new tank

It takes alot for me to get anxiety in mmo around player insults, and I've been told I was a bad rdm for 4 years in ff11 simply due i didn't like back-line healing I shrug that stuff off. The type of insults I was subjected too was blatent personal attacks calling me a horses rear end, my family is full of scrubs and why did they let thweir kid play video games think of the worst possible insults and I was subjected to them. Thing is I'm open minded to how I play, I look for tips and try to improve and I apologies for not playing well. I never do the I play how I want argument. I don't think it was needed to insult me to that level when I'm open to improve.

Alot of these insults happen over me not pulling fast enough or not being good enough to hold hate over precasting attack on pull blms who use fire 3, while waring top tier gear and I'm waring not top tier gear.

@ the comment about me saying you use a parser is banable.

I meant to say reportable, and this what was said from a gm, due to third party tools being against the tos simply saying you use one is reportable, it goes for parser as well. Only in preformed groups its more or less ok to ask/tell about parser due to in most cases preformed groups are with friends/fc mates so no one will report you for talking about it. In DF you may run into a gm brown noser who will report you and are with in the right to do so.


@ thread

I have said numerious time i personally don't care who uses a parser, I was just giving my opinion to having a dislike for them because the pro parser side is going above and beyond to discredit others opinions or claiming it doesn't/will not happen. Any long time player of ff11 knows it will happen. Parser to my understanding wasn't a thing till WoW ff11 pc players started to use windower and various plug ins and became more cruder as the game aged and more ppl opted to play pc.

Simply put, this would turn into another gear swap problem where no matter what type of content was, raiding leveling what not if you didn't gear swap you was a bad player and scum of the earth, or human filth that should rot and die. (two things i was subjected to in the later years of ff11 over my not able to gear swap due to lack of macro room).

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Originally Posted by melisande

Or you could just you know, discuss your rotations with other people who play the same class. Usually a pretty standard rotation available on the internet, and they figure it out by just... playing .... the ... game.... and talking with other players who play the same class.

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This is so wrong I'm not even sure where to begin...

Do people like you really think rotations are created just by talking to people who play the same class? Really? All the rotations available online come from people parsing. All of them.

SE doesn't give people rotations. People don't just make it up and stick to it arbitrarily. THEY ALL USE PARSERS.

That rotation you found on reddit that you're currently using? Parsed.

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Originally Posted by Elazu

I take it the question of why tanks and healers should be the only ones with responsibilities and dps players should get a free carry just for playing a dps job has still not been answered by the anti-parser crowd?

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Of course it hasn't. This question is always conveniently ignored. I quoted someone some pages ago saying that if DPS checks aren't being cleared, then tanks and healers should DPS harder as an alternative to DPS players being able to look at their parse numbers.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Of course it hasn't. This question is always conveniently ignored.

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The question is baited thats why, anyone can and will see it being baited. A better question is, why should all players in all content be subjected to play at the top tier level when maybe they don't want to? Maybe people are satified with beating content and not how big their number was? Blanketing all players to play as a top tier raider in all content is what slowly killed ff11 for some. Every player was told to gear swap or quit the game no matter the content. Even leveling people did it before GoV tomes.

I think the game is fine as it is, keep parser use to top tier players in preformed groups for toip tier raid content, and let those who don't wish to play at that level (or can't due to personal things) be abler to play in a relaxed enviroment.

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

This is so wrong I'm not even sure where to begin...

Do people like you really think rotations are created just by talking to people who play the same class? Really? All the rotations available online come from people parsing. All of them.

SE doesn't give people rotations. People don't just make it up and stick to it arbitrarily. THEY ALL USE PARSERS.

That rotation you found on reddit that you're currently using? Parsed.

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Thats not true...

ff11 2002 PS2 only jp ff11 2003 jp pc ff11 2003 later that year pc NA launch ff11 2004 NA ps2 launch.

ff14 2.0 pc/ps3 launch. A good amount of jp players are ps3.

MMo pre-parser Everquest, Ultima.

Pre-mmo MUD, MUSH Parser not allowed.

How do you think rpg are played offline??

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

The question is baited thats why, anyone can and will see it being baited. A better question is, why should all players in all content be subjected to play at the top tier level when maybe they don't want to? Maybe people are satified with beating content and not how big their number was? Blanketing all players to play as a top tier raider in all content is what slowly killed ff11 for some.

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First of all, nobody expects people to play like top tier raiders, even though you might want people to believe this to further your terrible agenda. People are not wrong to expect more than first coil dps from people at level 60, i200. If people don't want to carry their own weight, they shouldn't do group content, it's as simple as that. The other 3/7/23 players are not there to carry you, just because you can't be bothered to do more than auto-attacking.

Not to mention that tanks and healers get kicked all the time for not performing their job, but for some unexplained reason dps players need a free pass and can do as terrible as they want, because it's their 15 bucks a month. Kick them for not doing their job (no, doing i80 dps at lvl60 is NOT doing your job) and you're a dirty elitist. Kick a tank or healer for not doing their job and you are the savior.

Ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

The question is baited thats why, anyone can and will see it being baited. A better question is, why should all players in all content besubjected to play at the top tier level when maybe they don't want to? Maybe people are satified with beating content and not how big their number was? Blanketing all players to play as a top tier raider in all content is what slowly killed ff11 for some. Every player was told to gear swap or quit the game no matter the content. Even leveling people did it before GoV tomes.

I think the game is fine as it is, keep parser use to top tier players in preformed groups for toip tier raid content, and let those who don't wish to play at that level (or can't due to personal things) be abler to play in a relaxed enviroment.

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You're making a false equivilancy with that question.

Parser =/= automatic highest level of gameplay. Anyone can improve from the cutting edge players to the fresh level 60 newb. The newbie improving with a parser does not mean they are playing at the highest level. It merely means that they are playing at an improved level.

I bolded that because the OP does not want to play like you. They want a parser so they can improve while playing on a ps4. You are just supporting an intentional handicap to all ps3 and ps4 players. How selfish of you.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

keep parser use to top tier players in preformed groups for toip tier raid content, and let those who don't wish to play at that level (or can't due to personal things) be abler to play in a relaxed enviroment.

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No thank you. I'm an officer of a very casual FC (go look at my raiding track record, I'm not a raider in disguise) but we still want to be able to quantifiably know how we are doing. Many us us are on PS4 and don't have the option. We don't tell people they need to parse or anything like that but the genuine desire to be better and frustration of not being able to do so on their own is real for my members. You don't want to use one fine, others don't, fine too. But do not hold the rest of us back please and thx. Just because we don't savage doesn't mean we are ok with the state of things.

- Just a friendly FC officer looking out for the casuals who want to be better too

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

The question is baited thats why, anyone can and will see it being baited. A better question is, why should all players in all content be subjected to play at the top tier level when maybe they don\\'t want to?

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No one is arguing that casuals can't play bad if they want to.

Did you even read the OP?

A PS4 player who WANTS to self improve can\\'t, because you dont have empathy and can't put yourself in the shoes of someone who enjoys self improvement. And just because one jerk out of hundreds might say "you're bad and I got evidence" instead of just "you're bad" is horrible reasoning to block someone from wanting to be the best they can be.

They are literally losing a right to a tool, that PC has, while your side just occasionally might get their ego bruised by someone who can be black listed.

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

Do people like you really think rotations are created just by talking to people who play the same class? Really? All the rotations available online come from people parsing. All of them.

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Because not a single person was able to calculate 1.1x150 and see that it is bigger than 150. Or calculating 40x6 + 150 and see that it is bigger than 320. Or seeing that 150 + 100 is bigger than 150 + 0.

I mean, that's, like...rocket science!

I'm surprised a parser could even be programmed, considering it requires knowledge of basic addition and division. Truly, a math wizard must have done it. No regular mortal can possibly possess such knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Because not a single person was able to calculate 1.1x150 and see that it is bigger than 150. Or calculating 40x6 + 150 and see that it is bigger than 320. Or seeing that 150 + 100 is bigger than 150 + 0.

I mean, that's, like...rocket science!

I'm surprised a parser could even be programmed, considering it requires knowledge of basic addition and division. Truly, a math wizard must have done it. No regular mortal can possibly possess such knowledge.

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Oooooh boy

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

The question is baited thats why, anyone can and will see it being baited. A better question is, why should all players in all content be subjected to play at the top tier level when maybe they don't want to? Maybe people are satified with beating content and not how big their number was? Blanketing all players to play as a top tier raider in all content is what slowly killed ff11 for some. Every player was told to gear swap or quit the game no matter the content. Even leveling people did it before GoV tomes.

I think the game is fine as it is, keep parser use to top tier players in preformed groups for toip tier raid content, and let those who don't wish to play at that level (or can't due to personal things) be abler to play in a relaxed enviroment.

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You're talking about baited questions, yet you're going to extremes yourself. Why does it have to be "play mediocre" or "min-max"? Many players have the notion that performing your correct rotation is min-maxing, but it goes so much beyond that. Playing your correct rotation is the least you should do as a DPS, min-maxing and playing at top level is much more involving.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

A better question is, why should all players in all content be subjected to play at the top tier level when maybe they don't want to? Maybe people are satified with beating content and not how big their number was

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Because you keep ignoring that some content in this game DOES require players to play at the top tier level. If they don't want to, then they should not be doing this content unless they're paying for a carry because they are a hindrance to their group, and that sounds pretty selfish to me. Some content requires big numbers to get past certain phases, and players who are not playing at that level should be held accountable for it, but again, you keep ignoring this and insist that DPS players playing as they should is a luxury rather than an expectation.

Fact is, if healers and tanks played at the level that many DPS players in this game do, tanks wouldn't be able to hold enmity, causing wipes, and healers would not be able to react in time to keep party members alive. Whenever wipes like these happen, everyone is quick to point the finger at a tank or healer, but god forbid that you tell a DPS player that their numbers are low and are getting in the way of a clear. The job of a tank is to keep enmity and use their cooldowns, healers must keep the group alive, and if they are comfortable, they can add to the damage being done, and DPS are expected to DPS, not be absolved of any responsibilities, and it's a double standard if you think otherwise.

Furthermore, even in easy content like A1N, the only reason that the DPS who pulls extremely low numbers is clearing the fight is because the other 3 members are making up for their lack of damage.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Because not a single person was able to calculate 1.1x150 and see that it is bigger than 150. Or calculating 40x6 + 150 and see that it is bigger than 320. Or seeing that 150 + 100 is bigger than 150 + 0.

I mean, that's, like...rocket science!

I'm surprised a parser could even be programmed, considering it requires knowledge of basic addition and division. Truly, a math wizard must have done it. No regular mortal can possibly possess such knowledge.

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Basic math doesn't calculate all the little ins and outs.. I guess you've never noticed sometimes when you bootshine it's this number and sometimes it's this number those are important factors that doing 1000x150 won't show you. I'm not even sure YOU understand math.

How about I tell you my monk gear and my rotation and you give me the exact numbers I should land in a 3 minute phase. I'll even give you 50dps wiggle room.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

They are literally losing a right to a tool, that PC has, while your side just occasionally might get their ego bruised by someone who can be black listed.

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Losing a right? We have no rights in regards to XIV, we only have the privilege of playing as afforded by our subscription fees. Square has every right regarding the game for whatever reasons they see fit. It's all laid out in the EULA. Noone has a problem with personal parsers, not even the anti-parser crowd. It's the public parsers people are arguing over, or the potential demand to have personal parser data made public solely for the purposes of scrutiny.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Losing a right? We have no rights in regards to XIV, we only have the privilege of playing as afforded by our subscription fees. Square has every right regarding the game for whatever reasons they see fit. It's all laid out in the EULA. Noone has a problem with personal parsers, not even the anti-parser crowd. It's the public parsers people are arguing over, or the potential demand to have personal parser data made public solely for the purposes of scrutiny.

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Why not come up with an actual counter-argument instead of arguing semantics?

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Originally Posted by Odett

Furthermore, even in easy content like A1N, the only reason that the DPS who pulls extremely low numbers is clearing the fight is because the other 3 members are making up for their lack of damage.

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This is so much more prevalent than most realize. Also if you've been in the perfect storm of below average dps'ers across the board that you hit A1N enrage, it is frustrating. You can't have a fully open conversation about how to improve where everyone is on equal footing in terms of knowledge. With people who care enough to perform mechanics correctly but just need some help in the dps department, it is a frustrating situation that just doesn't have to exist.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Because not a single person was able to calculate 1.1x150 and see that it is bigger than 150. Or calculating 40x6 + 150 and see that it is bigger than 320. Or seeing that 150 + 100 is bigger than 150 + 0.

I mean, that's, like...rocket science!

I'm surprised a parser could even be programmed, considering it requires knowledge of basic addition and division. Truly, a math wizard must have done it. No regular mortal can possibly possess such knowledge.

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Could you optimize the DRG rotation for me please? It has two DoTs, one that is part of a combo, while maintaining both Heavy Thrust, Blood of the Dragon, and Disembowel in a four part combo. I feel like I should try to extend out my rotation some because if I alternate TT and ID combo I start to clip my DoTs resulting in a potency loss though it doesn't quite match up with my Heavy Thrust Timer. Oh, also when should I be using Blood for Blood?

All these questions can be answered with hard math, but it's certainly much more complicated to optimize that then you're putting forth in your extremely sarcastic and belligerent response. Just an FYI.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

The question is baited thats why, anyone can and will see it being baited. A better question is, why should all players in all content be subjected to play at the top tier level when maybe they don't want to? Maybe people are satified with beating content and not how big their number was? Blanketing all players to play as a top tier raider in all content is what slowly killed ff11 for some. Every player was told to gear swap or quit the game no matter the content. Even leveling people did it before GoV tomes.

I think the game is fine as it is, keep parser use to top tier players in preformed groups for toip tier raid content, and let those who don't wish to play at that level (or can't due to personal things) be abler to play in a relaxed enviroment.

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If we're wiping to Minotaur in Fractal because the DPS can't kill it fast enough and we run outta baits for the Minotaur to eat and we're only using them on each super swing, who do you think is responsible? That's a DPS check there in "low tier" content and probably can be seen if a group of minimum ilvl goes in and the DPS are of low skill.

Performance should be important to everyone in every branch of play. You may not need to be "playing like a God", but being able to see your numbers and how to improve those numbers should be part of any player's thought process. If we lack the tools to gauge performance readily available, how can we expect players to improve? That's some food for thought.

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@Parser's are evil topic

Parsers are a tool for players to use. The good players will use it to improve their performance. The belligerent players will use it to inflate their ego and stroke their e-peen. Take note that the good player will still ask for advice and constructive criticism where applicable if they don't have access to a parser and the belligerent player will still be a jerk regardless if they have access to the hard numbers or not.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Thats not true...

ff11 2002 PS2 only jp ff11 2003 jp pc ff11 2003 later that year pc NA launch ff11 2004 NA ps2 launch.

ff14 2.0 pc/ps3 launch. A good amount of jp players are ps3.

MMo pre-parser Everquest, Ultima.

Pre-mmo MUD, MUSH Parser not allowed.

How do you think rpg are played offline??

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Lol you think it matters that a minority of players in FFXI and FFXIV play on consoles? Judging by what your post you didn't understand anything I said. I said that all of the rotation resources FOR THIS GAME available online were all parsed.

And why the hell did you bring up MUDs? Seriously? RPGs are all math. Every one of them. The argument you're trying to make is that you just don't want to have any idea what numbers are going on. I hate to break it to you, but anyone at anytime can figure out how crappy your damage is by going through the battle log with some paper and a pencil. You're complaining about a freaking calculator. All the data it uses is displayed for anyone that wants to look.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Because not a single person was able to calculate 1.1x150 and see that it is bigger than 150. Or calculating 40x6 + 150 and see that it is bigger than 320. Or seeing that 150 + 100 is bigger than 150 + 0.

I mean, that's, like...rocket science!

I'm surprised a parser could even be programmed, considering it requires knowledge of basic addition and division. Truly, a math wizard must have done it. No regular mortal can possibly possess such knowledge.

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You don't make an educated theory and call it fact without measuring it, if possible. That would be ignorant. Yes people come up with the ideas by mathing it out. Then they test it and compare it to make sure that in practice they are right. They then see how to apply it to various fights and phases and make adjustments based on the fight and measure the results. No it's not rocket science but the proof is in the quantitative result not in the theorycraft.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

The question is baited thats why, anyone can and will see it being baited. A better question is, why should all players in all content be subjected to play at the top tier level when maybe they don't want to? Maybe people are satified with beating content and not how big their number was? Blanketing all players to play as a top tier raider in all content is what slowly killed ff11 for some. Every player was told to gear swap or quit the game no matter the content. Even leveling people did it before GoV tomes.

I think the game is fine as it is, keep parser use to top tier players in preformed groups for toip tier raid content, and let those who don't wish to play at that level be abler to play in a relaxed enviroment.

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This, ladies and gentlemen, is why we can't have nice things.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Not

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nope, i have been playing MMO very very long, i m not revealing my age here
this tool only come in a certain MMO in past few years, and mostly found in NA/EU community

the tool is not a stats of sport, is a tool
yeah, use it correctly improve ppl skill, miss-use it harm
simple as that
a knife use it correctly it help daily life, miss use it hurt
a car use it correctly it improve daily life, miss use it kill


we are all speaking from our experience
and my experience are, i have been playing mmo without it and living very well in game
i have been playing mmo with it and see how the community miss use it, turn it into elitism war

of coz you could experience differently and you could support it
but when everyone just see what they want to see and ignore the rest
it would be a never ending debate

for example, against it will see it as toxic and harm ignore the good it bring, supporter see the good value behind and ignore the negative it bring

i m not against it nor support it, or i should say i support and against to a certain extend
the same argument have been put up for ages, and we all know it will never come to an end
i m just trying to find a middle ground which would fulfill the need of supporter and eliminate the possible harm it bring
what i asking, ppl to join this brainstorming
to improve and suggest better idea
rather than keep fighting each other which obviously would not come to a consensus

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

snip

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I don't think your post really responds to my questions. I am going to go out on a limb and assume there is a language barrier, as it appears English may not be your first language. In which case you may have misunderstood my questions, or I may be misunderstanding your response.

The first point, I said "This suggests that someone would only want to improve themselves while doing hard content. This also suggests that "hard" content is the same thing for everyone, which it clearly isn't."

This was in response to you suggesting that the tool is only useful in hard content and to be put in PF and left out of DF. To reiterate, the tool is not only useful for hard content, and hard content is subjective. For example, someone new to to the game may want to be testing themselves and improving in Brayflox normal mode.

The 2nd question was in regards to your statement that 40% of MMO's have a parser. I was just wondering where that data came from? Was there a study, or is there a list somewhere? Is this just your experience from 3-5 MMO's you've played, or maybe from your experience playing 20 MMO's? To put this in perspective, on mmorpg.com's game list, there are 865 entries (yes this includes some unreleased titles).


EDIT: In regards to your overall message, that is great. It would be great to come to some sort of consensus and/or compromise. My issue, is that I see more issues arising from meeting half-way. Giving partial and not full information may lead to people having the frustrations that people expect with a parser, but will lack the information needed to provide credibility and/or to confirm their suspicions. That's why I think a personal parser will be more harmful than a public one. I also think that having it in some situations and not all would be annoying, and likely result in similar issues as above.

TLDR Add it full or don't add it, because something in between will just cause issues.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Could you optimize the DRG rotation for me please? It has two DoTs, one that is part of a combo, while maintaining both Heavy Thrust, Blood of the Dragon, and Disembowel in a four part combo. I feel like I should try to extend out my rotation some because if I alternate TT and ID combo I start to clip my DoTs resulting in a potency loss though it doesn't quite match up with my Heavy Thrust Timer. Oh, also when should I be using Blood for Blood?

All these questions can be answered with hard math, but it's certainly much more complicated to optimize that then you're putting forth in your extremely sarcastic and belligerent response. Just an FYI.

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You don't even need hard math for the rotation. And if you level up your dragoon, it seems logic. The rotation isn't the problem. And it's quite easy.
The opener is far more complicated but not that complicated.
But I agree, to maximise the dps, it's much easier with a parser. But still, even without the best rotation opener, without parser, you could down Savage.

I'm pro-parser btw.