FFXI was just time consuming to me. For me, it wasn't difficult. A good majority of the fights in game were the same mechanics, outlive/outlast/kill (if applied) burn down before rage timer.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC
It wasn't really grindy either, there was a lot of content but very few had you actually grinding away. The only thing I could think of off the top of my head were the AF coffer key farming parties. I enjoyed that XI littered the path to 75 with achievements and milestones, I hated the fact they kept stale content relevant for so long, I loved that you could still challenge end game content without being in an HNM shell with the best gear. In it's hay day XI had a very bustling end game life. XI also had a pretty good itemization on armor and weapons. There were definitely BiS, but there were rarely the full time BiS items. I know a lot of people didn't care for the gear swap system itself-me included, but the variety in gear was the bees knees.
Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW
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12-29-2013, 04:12 PMBaxter
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12-29-2013, 06:16 PMVandarkThey removed some content that was already current in 1.23 to add different content but didn't keep alot of that content for ARR and wtf are you on about on release people keep forgetting this game has been around long enough that the new release bs is an outdated excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiantos
The orrigonal FF14 was 7 years in development before it was even released, then two years of content added got flushed down the toilet for ARR but FF14 never had the kind of content available 11 had and I hope that some day it might.
Yes some things remain in the content from the old 14 but there is alot missing also and much of the content that remains is deemed pointless once you reach end game so the content never gets touched.
No one expects the game to have instant content but I'm talking about future content, I never said FF11 had all that content when it was first released just that it has it and that FF14 could surely adapt to have similar content in the future instead of only adding a new dungeon here or a new pvp match there it's lame because there is not enough variety in that.
Also as for the story gear in FFXI you are completely incorrect about that and couldn't be more wrong if you tryed.
The best Rings and earrings in the game were from story content and still remained the best at level 75 for the majority of the games existence before abyssea came along and destroyed that.
You would never successfully correct me about anything to do with XI, I wouldn't ever miss facts when it comes to that game. I'm a champion amongst champions when it comes to XI, I know the game from the inside out. I earned the right to brag about that too, my character on XI is still Elite to date. -
12-29-2013, 06:36 PMObysucaEven when aby came, Rajas was still one of the best rings lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Vandark
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12-29-2013, 06:42 PMVandarkSo true, and in FFXI you can still make good use of alot of your older gear, you don't just simply ware one gear set you need a whole range of gear sets to make full use of your max potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obysuca
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12-29-2013, 07:23 PMObysucaTrue, but sadly gamers today seem to not be able to handle all those things :/ See my sig, it also applies to anything where people have to think these days lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Vandark
As I've said in another topic, I have no idea why SE didn't pull more ideas from XI, a game that's lasted over a decade and still making money, but instead went the WoW route, which we all know those games die in a year or so. Not saying XIV will, but you get the idea. XIV's fun and all, but it just feels like too many mmos, I'd love to play a mmo like old XI, sure it took a while (year or so) to get a 75, but by then you knew your job and it felt good, instead of these people who get 50 in a day and jump into endgame stuff with no idea how to play their job except what they did in fates lol Also, stuff that requires people to communicate beyond "hello". I still talk to the majority of the people I met on XI years ago, not this crap that happens on mmos these days where you never have to talk to anyone :/
Dangerous areas even at cap? Stuff that requires a pt outside of group stuff so you can't solo the game? Mobs that want to murder you and are persistent and keep following you? Gear that I can look at and go "Wow, that'd be awesome to have" instead of "Eh, I'll get that in a day"? Different elemental resists instead of 1 spell does the trick? A world that feels like an actual world instead of sitting in the inn and able to enter pretty much anything? XIV, y u no have these, better yet, all mmos, this lol
If I had the money and resources, I'd go ahead and make one like old XI, people say it won't work but no one has Thal's balls to try it, they just want a quick buck, even if the game dies fast and no one is original anymore. -
12-29-2013, 09:00 PMVandarkYeah me and all my XI friends still talk too and we talk about how we dislike the new direction MMO's are takeing, there all very much the same as the last it's a bit garbage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obysuca
I really miss the sense of adventure and complexity of the world and needing to work in a social environment to achieve your goals.
I hate that no one bothers to interact in these new MMO's they just que in for dungeons, don't say a word, get what they want for the day then log off.
That's fine and all for the casual gamer but there isn't anything interesting for players who are after something more in depth than a simple que in and play style MMO. MMO's don't fit the casual gamer well, there not supposed to be designed as casual games that defeats the point in playing an MMO, if your going to play an MMO your supposed to have massive things to over come that require persistence and skill in a world you have to explore and learn about.
If you turn an MMO into a game that only suits casual gamers you eliminate too much from the game as a whole, limiting it and defeating the purpose entirely of what it means to play an MMORPG.
For me Final Fantasy has always been that other MMO, the one MMO that was different and more advanced than the basic simplicity that these other MMO's all seem to share.
I want to play a game that feels like another world to me thats the point in an MMO. FF14 doesn't feel like you’re in another world anymore, now it's more like you’re a cartoon character in the same episode every day.
On FFXI because you were basically forced to interact with others and develop a social network in order to play every day was different and even if you were doing the same content sometimes, the experience was never the same.
I have so many memories from FFXI where I feel like wow that was a truly amazing experience but I don't have a single memory from FFXIV ARR where I even felt the slightest feeling of Woh, on ARR I'm geared exactly the same as everyone else and I don't have anything to look forward to or aim for really. Everything's just been handed out on a platter for people to grab at arms reach. There is only one thing in the game thats at all challenging and it's Coil yet that gear isn't even much greater than equipment you earn threw the point system.
In the outside world there is no risk or danger and has no use or purpose other than an outside area to level in..
In an MMO I expect there should be lots of danger that is half the fun and purpose other than solo play in the outside world, IMPOSSIBLE TO GAUGE Monsters -> NM's that drop equipment is desperately needed IMO for ARR.
Hard to reach areas are also needed, like needing to put together a team to go search for coffers and farm up coffer keys, that existed in 1.23 too. I miss NM's and Coffers that content was good, it meant there was something outside people could team up for, ARR needs some kind of end game content in the outside world that you can't simply que in for, dungeons alone isn't enough, it's epic fail if you ask me. -
12-29-2013, 09:22 PMObysucaI wish I could hit like more than once lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Vandark
I have no idea why people want to play MMOs as single player games :/ People these days who are just now starting mmos will never get to know what a true mmo is. XI wasn't a game, it was an experience.
I remember taking hours of time out of the day, even getting up hours before I had to, just to play XI. But with XIV, I just don't get that feeling :/
The thing I hate about this queuing up for things instead of having to make a pt / join one, people are too willing to just drop the pt for any reason they can come up with, because how quick it is to get into another. -
12-29-2013, 09:46 PMVandarkIt's truly a shame because MMO's were my fav genre of game but they just feel like any old console game now it's no longer an experience to be remembered more like as you say simply just another one player game with others who play around you not with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obysuca
IMO there is a huge difference between playing a game like I just described where all the players just seem like NPC’s and an MMORPG that’s designed to bring people together as a massive multiplayer role playing game, I don't even think people have the ability to role play in this game anyway you’re not involved enough in the experience with each other.
In FFXI just about everyone in the server knew my character OMG is that Vandark hey man what’s up remember that party the last month you’ve got to make another kick ass party like that again. So forth, man I left for a year at one stage returned to the game and had people waving at me left right and center welcoming me back the game was literary a virtual world.
Now It's more like a solo experience where your world is your INN and you randomly enter areas you don’t travel to with others near you that don't interact with each other, wtf was SE thinking changing their incredibly original style into something so shallow and empty?
These new MMO’s are truly MMO suicide, it’s no wonder so many of them fail, they have lost all creativity and care. The entire vision for a virtual world that brings people together has been lost.
Now majority of the community are all bickering over petty things and puting down anyone that wants more content, it makes no fkn sense.
The game couldn't be any more hollow if it tried, it defiantly doesn't feel like an MMO anymore to me, I get bored and can't think of anything worth doing every time I log on. In an MMO there should be endless things for me to achieve, not feel like I've run out of things to do. -
12-29-2013, 10:04 PMKluya15Quote:
Originally Posted by indira
FFXI had you waiting in Jeuno for 6 hours to get a party. FFXI had you feeding a chocobo for 6 hours in order to ride it. FFXI had story content that 85% of it's playerbase couldn't see. FFXI had everyone wearing a scorpion harness. FFXI had Valkurm Dunes. FFXI had you killing worms and crabs for it's entirety of leveling. I could go on for hours. (You couldn't alt tab in FFXI). Oh, and Playonline. -
12-29-2013, 10:21 PMVandarkNot if you made your own instead of being slack, I used to put together partys for myself took me a total of 10mins tops back as far as your describing. Think about all the people as lazy as you waiting for party's, that is alot of seeking people to form a group with. Also never heard of shouting for members I take it, you could form groups in no time. Groups who you actually interacted with in a social environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kluya15
Yet you still had the ability to raise and breed chocobos in FFXIV you don't have that option at all, not even a less painfull version of raiseing it's just none exsistant. Also you never needed to own a chocobo in XI there were plenty of other traveling methods and there were heaps of chocobo rentals to get around with. Yet another thing that made FFXI more interesting you actually needed to travel via airship, boat and make your way threw harsh enviroments on foot, you couldn't even get through some of the areas unless you had others with you. Your lame if you think that isn't epic as fk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kluya15
Really? Yes it was harsh for many but your exaggerating on a massive scale, the majority of the community who actually enjoyed the game stuck it threw and finished the story. I don't agree with FFXIV having the same painful story content that XI had but not everything should be soloible, thats way too numbingly easy and unsocial in what is supposed to be a social game. In the story you have no sense of achievement in FF14.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kluya15
Yeah if you were a thief or ninja thats about it really and if you never replaced your scorpion harness then you were a mega noob man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kluya15
My first time making my way to Valkurm Dunes was an experience I'll never forget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kluya15
I guess you never left Valkurm Dunes then, sounds like you loved that place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kluya15
I could correct you for hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kluya15
Never heard of Windower, or the update they did to play online that allowed windowed ALT-TAB? Exactly how into XI were you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kluya15
It doesn't sound a whole lot like you cared for the game, probably why you don't know much about it. -
12-29-2013, 11:14 PMVladislav
FFXI was great , in this game was need was hours/days/weeks to obtain&achieve something , also FFXI haved fantastic mechanics and many many more things , but..... . Yes i with friends was enjoyed it many year , but i happy FFXIV moved to somethin' new , new battle mechanics , dungeons , raids , ----------> ALSO <----------- yes i real happy that FFXIV way easier than FFXI was , i happy to get relic in few days instead half year . Why so ? because when i started FFXI i was just 18 years old lol , hungry to hardcore grind , HNM waitin' , dynamis runs , long time partyes . I think FFXIV designed exacly for FF series fans like me and many other friends who already grow up , have work family & childrens and good few hours after work ;)
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12-30-2013, 03:32 AMVelhartWhere was this magical world where it took 10 minutes to get parties together? Was even harder to find people in mid-levels because most people played end game. Maybe you can get people in 10 minutes for merit parties or dumb luck. As someone who always made the parties, it took at least 1-2 hours if it was a good day to get people together just for them to disband in 10 minutes for a camp spot already taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandark
I think he meant the longevity of just doing one quest as in the ability to "rent" chocobos. Which was feeding it greens every two hours.Quote:
Yet you still had the ability to raise and breed chocobos in FFXIV you don't have that option at all, not even a less painfull version of raiseing it's just none exsistant. Also you never needed to own a chocobo in XI there were plenty of other traveling methods and there were heaps of chocobo rentals to get around with. Yet another thing that made FFXI more interesting you actually needed to travel via airship, boat and make your way threw harsh enviroments on foot, you couldn't even get through some of the areas unless you had others with you. Your lame if you think that isn't epic as fk.
Not everything is soloable in FFXIV. You don't take into account the dungeons and primal fights at all. FFXI's storyline fights that required a party was usually instanced content. So nothing too different in that department.Quote:
Really? Yes it was harsh for many but your exaggerating on a massive scale, the majority of the community who actually enjoyed the game stuck it threw and finished the story. I don't agree with FFXIV having the same painful story content that XI had but not everything should be soloible, thats way too numbingly easy and unsocial in what is supposed to be a social game. In the story you have no sense of achievement in FF14.
Which goes into one of FFXI's biggest flaws, was that mid-50 gear was better than lv.75 gear itself. Very rarely would the game ever come out with a piece that you could consider better, situational at most. Pretty sad the best armor for my samurai for years was my Haubergeon+1 for DPS and Kirin's Osode for WS's. Still debatable if my Askar body was an upgrade from the Haubergeon. Also when the Hagun came out, there was no GK that could surpass it except relic for years.Quote:
Yeah if you were a thief or ninja thats about it really and if you never replaced your scorpion harness then you were a mega noob man.
Yep, training a bunch of goblins to the gate of Selbina, where everyone who was low leveled died from goblins upon entering was quite a hilarious experience.Quote:
My first time making my way to Valkurm Dunes was an experience I'll never forget.
Pretty much leveling all the way to 75 was small creatures like goblins, crabs, and worms. Sure there were some other alternate camps, but they were the easiest to kill and everyone camped them.Quote:
I guess you never left Valkurm Dunes then, sounds like you loved that place.
I shouldn't have to rely on 3rd party tools for the simplest of features. I played FFXI from 2003-2010 and I can safely say it is one of the greatest MMO's I had ever played. Had a good time with friends and for it's time, I loved doing end game. To say however that a lot of it's features are old and outdated at this point is very much an understatement. Just because certain features worked in a 12 year old game doesn't mean it will work in a game that only came out this year. Is it to say all things from FFXI are bad and shouldn't be brought over? No. I can throw a few ideas of my own in there. To say the whole game needs to go back to FFXI style is really a joke, especially since you seek unrealistic expectations. Let FFXI be it's own game and same to FFXIV. I know you keep hearing the "Go back to FFXI" line, but the only FFXI experience you are getting is in FFXI. So if you don't like ARR's direction, I would probably seek a game that does cater your needs.Quote:
Never heard of Windower, or the update they did to play online that allowed windowed ALT-TAB? Exactly how into XI were you?
It doesn't sound a whole lot like you cared for the game, probably why you don't know much about it.
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12-30-2013, 04:11 AMDSXThe same old tired excuse "We don't have time to play this genre anymore"Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladislav
I don't think the solution is to change the genre to the complete opposite. There are plenty of other genres of games that will serve you will, YES including games with co-op (yes co-op is not exclusive to shooters) and even lobbies to make teams so you can have that too.
A genre that is pseudo single player games with glorified chat capabilities and slapping some instant group only battles does not make that genre MMORPG, it makes it a single player game where you can chat and interact with the other fans of said game while waiting in a hub for an instance battle queue. -
12-30-2013, 08:22 AMVandarkThis was our game there is no other game out there to cater our needs, FFXI is a lost cause now with no real future and the true FFXI experience has long faded out, it no longer exists even in FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
FFXIV was our future game and it had the potential to keep alot of similarity as the orrigonal FFXIV partly intended on doing yet others came into the picture during ARR's making and they have tore apart what was ours and it's become something completely different to what we hoped for.
Many of us were the ones who were also loyal to the orrigonal FFXIV, we stuck around when things looked bad and even payed to play in hopes the game would improve so it could be our new MMO.
So simply giving up on a game we have played since the beginning FFXI 10years+ for some and FFXIV 2years+ it's only understandable we wouldn't want to play another game, we want more for this game and some damn content that suits us too and not just the casual gamer.
I doubt WOW would abandon there fans and simply change everything about there game then say if you don't like it go play something else, no they would surely maintain a level of previous game play and simply add more.
Just because the game now has dungeons and raiding as there style of end game doesn't mean that the game must exclude all other content for end game, that is ridicules. Even WoW had NM's and more to do than simply raiding and dungeons thats where alot of these new MMO's fall short, there verity in content is terrible.
How would you like it if you bought all the assassins creed games then all of a sudden the last game the main character is a Barby dole instead of Desmon and she searches for candy all day instead of being a hardcore assassin with obstacles to surpass? Would you simply be like oh thats ok I'll just go play something else, or if you cared enough about the franchise would you push for more?
Apart from those dungeons and primal fights the entire story was soloable and you pretty much just backed up the problem of the game seriously lacking verity of content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
In end game all you do is the same stuff, dungeons and primals, raids and pvp it's all the same crap.
If the only team available content is dungeons and pvp like every other new gen MMO that sucks. I'm sorry but that is flawed on a massive scale.
And no one would defend that as it was clearly a flaw, but the game back then was extreamly old, Windower did the trick just fine. No one is suggesting FFXIV take on the bad things about XI, I don't get why people put XI down so much the game was a huge success for it's time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
On FFXI you wouldn't leave any single peace of armor equipped, it was all situational it ment that gear you earned had a purpose and didn't simply get replaced in a weeks time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
In FFXIV you'll constantly be replacing your one and only gear set while everything else you worked hard for will become 100% obsolete and useless. Hopefully they bring out some way to at least use the appearance of old gear or you'll really have no use for it at all. If they added a feature like that I wouldn't mind so much I don't really want a macro system implemented for FFXIV it wouldn't suit the game like it did in XI but for XI it was perfectly fine.
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What it boils down to is this, we want some content we can relate to, it doesn't have to be done in the same tedious manor like previously in XI we just want similar content added for ARR. -
12-30-2013, 08:49 AMDevilrayYou are clearly too lazy/casual to get into the content. It took 6 hours because once you finish that quest, you get a chocobo license that lasts forever and you never have to do it again. And you are wrong about the scorpion harness and everything else. 85%, the 85% that suck and cry to mommy for help. It was rewarding to finish everything, and a lot of what you are saying is not true. Fact of the matter is is that FF14's journey to endgame is a failure in comparison to FF11's, and 14 also lacks anything worth aiming for in endgame currently that will not get outdated in a few months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kluya15
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12-30-2013, 09:38 AMVandarkI simply had to reply to this because it seems like you missed out on a great experience, you see in FFXIV 1.23 you weren't simply handed your AF ( WHAT ARE YOU SERIOUS? )Quote:
Originally Posted by RyujinUzikin
Yes I am, in FF14 1.23 you had to earn it threw epic fights same as it was for FFXI, and not just your body peace, the entire set was earned threw group content that wasn't soloed.
-> Currently uploading on youtube a Video of me in the 1.23 Dragoon fight <-
EDIT: Finished
-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPhdIwzUl_s
Sorry but everyone new had a way worse experience, if you simply gave FF14 the original more of a chance the game would have become way more epic by now than what we are left with.
People wouldn't reach end game at such a fast pace and would actually be capable of playing at a pro level if they got that far which is kind of the point. The game is supposed to prepare you for end game not be a walk in the park then all of a sudden you don't know wtf to do.
All they had to do was improve battle speed and animations, give us more spells and ability's and the battle system would have been golden. -
12-30-2013, 09:42 AMMoontide
In my experience FFXIV is one of the most linear MMOs I've ever played already, even moreso than the early iterations of WoW in some parts.
It's also an effort for me to think of any other P2P MMO which is so devoid of character customization gameplay-wise. You get options to change your class even after character creation, sure, but every alternative is basically the same within its class once you level (or item level) them up enough. -
12-30-2013, 09:47 AMWobi
Oh how rose-tinted the view of FFXI gets as you get on in years. I made my own parties every day and it still would take forever sometimes during NA primetime and then you had to fight out for camps with jerks who would should up and try and out-pull you preventing 12 people from having a good time.
Chocobo raising was added many, many years into the game. FFXI has been out a very long time and many of us played it for 10 years or so, it's time has come and gone. -
12-30-2013, 10:20 AMNefGPQuote:
Originally Posted by vasdeferens
Yeah I honestly don't understand why they didn't keep what actually worked in XI (like the job system...)
Honestly the biggest problems plaguing XI were it's all-to-heavy reliance on the RNG, Haste, Utsusemi, needlessly complex formulas for what was essentially a very basic battle system (stack buffs and whack away with the occasional weaponskill), skilling up, and a few other things that all thankfully got fixed in this game. But in the process they threw out the good things too.
XI's greatest strengths (up until Abyssea) that should have been kept for XIV:
- Lasting, relevant gear & content; new items and events never obsoleted older ones but rather gave players new alternatives.
- A diverse Job system that allowed for a great deal of experimentation. Not everything worked well, but at least you had true variety in options. The Armory System basically means we'll never see BLU, and even if we do eventually get SAM it'll be locked in to just a Katana or Lance, rather than both + a bow. I miss using multiple weapon types and having weaponskills as a mage too. RDM won't be anything like it was in XI as it'll likely be based on GLA, and SCH, while it works, was far better designed and more fun to play in XI with the stratagems and light/dark stances.
- Merit Points that allowed for true customization at end game - the bonus stats in XIV while noticeable don't have the defining impact I'd like, such as a Paladin who focuses on VIT for HP, STR for Enmity, or MND for healing/divine magic power.
- Amazing storytelling. XIV's plot so far while not terrible, has been nothing close to the memorable experiences that CoP, ToAU and WotG were. There haven't been any big characters that truly stand out like Tenzen, Prishe, Gessho, Luzaf or Lilisette.
- Summoner, while underpowered for many years, was still at least fun and cool - I'll take the old blood pact system & avatars over the garbage we got in this game anyday. The primals are awesome and very well done, but SMN feels very cobbled together with no real sense of direction. This is an on-going personal peeve of mine and while I have issues with all the jobs in this game, SMN is the one that irks me the most by far. You basically took RDM, neutered it's debuffing ability while also taking away the melee aspect and gave it 3 crappy pets. That's what SMN is in this game, as opposed to its traditional AoE utility role while also taking away most of the "WOW" factor (the cool summons).
- Being able to play every job as much as you like & how you like. Currently the mythic cap essentially punishes you at endgame for wanting to multi-class (as does the 1-drop a week for CT). XI had it's own kind of limits on it, but there was never anything expressly put in that forced you to pick a single class and stick with it or else take an eternity to make any real progress on each additional class you played. For example I could be in Dynamis as a THF (to help with drops) and still get my Relic armor for any other jobs I wanted (barring whatever limits the group has set, but again that's at least optional/player driven rather than forced upon us by the game itself).
Furthermore. whereas the original armory system as designed by Tanaka & Komoto was meant to give us base. rudimentary classes from which we could then mix and match not only abilities but even equipment to essentially create our own classes, we're now stuck with a bizarre pseuo-job system that's incredibly restrictive with basically no room for creativity.
There won't be any cool RDM/NIN soloing seemingly impossible NMs, or SAM/RNG spamming high damage ranged attacks or any of that cool stuff you could do in XI in this game. WHM doesn't have to weigh the pros and cons of going /SCH vs /RDM in this. Heck we don't even have skillchains and magic bursts anymore. Don't get me wrong the Limit Breaks are nifty, but they too are very generic and shared across multiple roles rather than being individualized for each job (less work for the devs).
I made my peace with XI, and am not asking for rehash of the game - nor do I want to go back to it. But in a lot of ways, FFXI felt far more like a true FF experience. Sure he's biased as the creator, but I find myself still agreeing with Tanaka when he said that XI is the most emblematic of the series; that is, of all the FF games to date XI truly embodies what an FF game should be.
And he's right. For all it's flaws (and there are many) it still stand the test of time as being a memorable and engaging experience. -
12-30-2013, 10:43 AMSenfei
I remember FFXI fondly, but at the same time I don't remember much about it. Grinding xp parties (seriously... what?), waiting... more waiting... uhh, yeah. The story? Don't remember it at all. Not sure I ever even did it because it wasn't accessible and it really didn't seem necessary.
I understand there are parts of the game you wish were different, but keep in mind back in the day there were parts of FF11 we (myself and my linkshell) wished were different too. A lot of those things have been realized in this game, at least for me. -
12-30-2013, 11:45 AMCanddi
Everything is just so damn easy in this game(like most all MMO's) and comes to you without any effort. There is zero sense of adventure. I had fun for about a month and now I don't even care to load it up, that's just sad. I do envy people who enjoy this type of MMO, I wish I could too. I long for the old days when an MMO was a long journey and endgame wasn't attainable in a week or even a couple months.
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12-30-2013, 12:03 PMVandarkI don't understand why there can't be content for both playing styles in the same MMO, it seems highly possible to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canddi
The old FFXIV had both dungeons and outside end game content I don't see why it can't work for ARR too. -
12-30-2013, 12:04 PMSapphicSo what you are saying is you're sick of games copying other games whilst wanting this to copy another game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandark
Remind me again where FFXIV 1.0 is? If it was so awesome (I played it, got bored of the lack of anything in it and quit). I remember near end of beta a letter published in the lodestones forums with a huge list of things that would be in when it went live. They forgot to mention it may be months after it was actually released, or never that it would be implemented. What was in beta was what you got in live.
FFXIV has a MUCH higher paying population than FFXI EVER had. SEs own words, not mine. So which do you think is the best way to go financially? Not to mention the amount of money needed to create a AAA game is massive in comparisons to 11 years ago and luckily enough for the playerbase, sub fees have pretty much stayed constant. So greater investment needs greater returns.
Simple fact is there is a much bigger market for FFXIV than FFXI. Times have changed, either adapt and play it for what it is or move on and stay in the past. BTW, I loved EQ1, UO, SWG, DaoC, hated FFXI because of the combat (god that was a great cure for insomnia) the elitism, the days trying to get a simple xp party, chain killing XP parties in EQ where awesome in comparison, HNM camps with other LSs MPKing half your party to wipe you and thats if a bot didnt magicall yappear and tag it before it even appeared.
FFXI promoted elitism, it promoted following the cookie cutters like sheep if you wanted to do anything. Even when it turned out certain job/sub jobs which were scorned before, when someone found out they were actually pretty awesome. LOL!
Too many players in FFXI thought they where special snowflakes, when in reality, they weren't, aren't and never will be. Thats the problem with FFXIV, it's not as easy to act all high and mighty anymore where things are accessible to a lot more people.
If you can kill something once, you can kill it a 1000 times. grinding the same thing over and over and over and over to achieve something does not make it difficult, it makes it a time sink. Extrememly overlong timesinks that a huge part of FFXIs progression consisted of did not make it more difficult. It made it tedious and put you into the mindset of a gambler, must... keep... going. To make it feel you havn't wasted any of the time you invested prior to the point you are at.
As others have said tho, Make FFXIV it's own game, make forumlas it's own. Give us plenty of variety of things to do when we log on and that will help to keep a happy playerbase. Which with 2.1, they are doing just that. -
12-30-2013, 12:22 PMVandarkNo what I'm saying is that all the new Gen MMO's are all the fkn same but FFXI is different, they all coppyed the same shitty dungeon and pvp system that every other MMO has these days instead of keeping there original ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphic
1.0 wasn't SOOO awesome as you sarcastically described but it had the potential to be alot greater than the linear version we have now. Most of the community who didn't stick around or enjoy FFXIV did so because there biggest issue with the game was this.
-The game had serious problems when it came to technical issues.
-The majority of players couldn't play 1.0 at all because there computers couldn't handle it.
-The game lacked content in it's early stages "When most quit"
-The leave system was the only way to level when it was first released and there was a horrible exp system with a penalty for exping... probably scared alot away.
The awesome experience came later at 1.23 after the game had been improved and many of the issues resolved over the period of two years. The game still had plenty of room for improvement but to say the game didn't have anything good about it is foolish.
-Many of the technical issues were weeded out
-Yes there was still many computers that couldn't handle the game unfortunately but this is what we hoped would be solved for ARR
-The games content had grown to be a decent amount and would have continued to grow
-EXPing was much easyer in 1.23 than the horrible Fate system you have now.
-There was a huge purpose for gil and trade, items and gear could be resold after use if repaired and materia was much more beneficial.
-Farming gil and NPCing items for gil was possible and made decent money in 1.23
-There was no limit to how much equipment you could earn per week because equipment was always obtainable
-The game had NM's which could drop decent low level gear for leveling at low levels
-The game had caves and areas to explore other than a set path layed out for you
-Leaves had more purpose and better rewards than ARR
-Teliporting didn't cost you any money
-The graphics was extreamly better than ARR
-No restrictions
-There weren't lots of stupid little minions and other stupid things destroying the immersion
-Outside content that required teams, - Harder leaves with gear drops for lvl 50, -Larger NM's for rare loot, coffer chests. AF missions that gave you a memorable experience.
-Fishing had a mini game instead of being a single button press and could earn you decent money and be used to craft crystals for other crafting
Also for the record whats better reusing content from the same company or taking content from other company's and clamming it as your own?
Re hashing ideas SE came up with originally is staying true to the franchise, I would much rather if they would stay true to there franchise and re-introduce Final Fantasy MMO styled things to do.
It's too late for that, FFXIV was it's own game when it was originally made now it's just a clone with the Final Fantasy image.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphic
2.1 has made no difference to that, even the housing the way it's being done now has been done in other games like Rift for example, adding new dungeons like crystal tower hasn't changed much ether that content is still a damn Raid.
It's like I'm arguing with people who don't even know what there talking about.
Don't make me laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphic
-What exactly about ARR isn't time sinking progression?-
-A game that limits you to how much gear you can earn per week thats in no way difficult to obtain.
-Repetitive fate grinding that requires no skill in order to level.
Pussy ass whipped Time Synking game.
If you ask me as far as timesinks go XIV ARR takes the cake.
At least in FFXI you had many obstacles that required alot of skill and perseverance, team work, creativity and required a whole virtual world of game knowledge.
FFXI Wasn't a time synk at all when you consider that not everyone could simply spend time on the game and obtain everything. -
12-30-2013, 02:12 PMLeomoon
I barely played XI due to mindless grinding and the window based combat was boring as hell...so here is a unrelated Gif.
http://i.imgur.com/xDnQ2QG.gif -
12-30-2013, 03:10 PMDoo
Apparently it's not a grind or time sink if you actually like doing the content.
AAR -
Fate grind
Dungeon grind
Philo grind
Myth grind
Wp sr grind
Craft grind
CT grind
MMOs in general are a huge grindfest. -
12-30-2013, 03:37 PMNoshpan
I'd rather not XIV end up like XI as I dislike FF XI. Prior to my experience with FF XIV 1.0 beta, XI was at the top of my "Worst Game I Had the Misfortune of Playing" list.
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12-31-2013, 04:21 AMDSXThey always refuse to take anything from this game predecessor yet jump in joy for taking a heap of ideas from the million identical MMORPGs out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandark
Final Fantasy XI
Final Fantasy XIV
it's the same series people, we expect the franchise to stay true to its roots.
what we get instead is a clone of the million other mmorpg clones out there in a Final Fantasy skin. No putting moogles and chocobos and familiar names and charachters from the series does not make it any less of a clone of the other million mmorpg clones.
It is mostly due to the lack of the ability to understand that there could be a lot of aspects that they chose to ignore in FFXI because they are personally not interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandark
A lot of people play games and skip the story so they missed the impact that story might have made on the experience of someone who payed attention to it for example. Some people didn't sit down and understood how the gameplay mechanics worked in FFXI and just looked up lists on what is best armor for each slot then where to get them then grinded that and that was all that there was to it to them missing heaps of fun tinkering with what each item could do and couldn't do and at what situation..etc they just skipped all that to the question "whats the elit set gear for this job ? ok how to to get it ? ty I'll grind dat for entirety".
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandark
This is the funny part for me. I hear them pointing fingers at anyone that say something positive about FFXI and cry its too grindy and nothing in it except time sinks then you look at what they are playing its as grindy with time sinks everywhere AND doesn't challenge your intelligence in anyway to boot it just treat you like a child.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doo
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12-31-2013, 04:25 AMErBearlooks like you are in the minority. If it sucked, as you said, it still wouldn't be going to this date.Quote:
Originally Posted by ufufu
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12-31-2013, 04:27 AMDale
Final Fantasy 11 was/is a great game. That's why it is still around over a decade later and has made SE more money than any of their other games. So people can bad mouth it all they wish. But the facts speak for themselves.
14 would have been very wise to follow in its footsteps and improve upon it, rather abandoning it completely and trying to clone WoW. So I agree with the OP. -
12-31-2013, 04:35 AMDSXFFXI could live because it was unique AND had long term goals to achieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
FFXIV is a clone MMORPG just like the rest of them that made bank with the privilege of having the Final Fantasy skin available to them to slap it on the game. -
12-31-2013, 04:38 AMDooNewer games tend to feed their players constant gear and weapons that it makes their minds think it's less grindy. I.E Get Ifrit weapon, get Garuda weapon quick in no time. Grinding crafts and leveling classes there's so much unnecessary gear you can skip through or do without.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX
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12-31-2013, 04:39 AMsynaesthetic
What? Copy WoW less? Are you high?
If anything, Square needs to copy World of Warcraft (and other games they already badly copy) more and better!
Labyrinth of the Ancients is a poor half-ripoff of LFR. They should copy LFR more and allow each player to win one drop per boss.
FATEs are a poor facsimile of RIFT's rifts. They should do a better job of copying them, by making FATEs just as varied and interesting as RIFT's rifts.
The dye system is just a half-baked version of GW2's dye system. They should make a fully-baked version, complete with multiple dye color areas per piece, dyes not being a consumable item once you've "learned" a color, and every single piece of gear being dyeable.
Their story quests are just half-assed remakes of SWTOR's class mission lines. They should be less half-assed, and give the player character more input in the story, allowing us to have dialog options and branching conversations!
The combat system is just a...
I could go on for hours. SE hasn't done a damn thing perfectly here, and most of what they've done wrong has to do with cleaving far too close to their obsession with arbitrary restriction. The only point I even remotely agree with the OP on is that we definitely do need a more varied gearing metagame. Right now it's just "higher numbers are better" and the secondary attributes (crit, determination, etc) are so much weaker than the primary attribute (int, mnd, etc) that it's not even really worth gearing for them with a few major exceptions (bard, monk).
I'd have loved for the Crimson Vest to have "Fire III/Fester: Increases damage dealt by 10%." That right there would make me seriously consider, "is this better than AF+? Better than allagan? Must go test it." Where's the variety in endgame gearing? The sidegrades? The extremely muddy and unclear upgrade paths that actually give us endgame players something to do, something to test, and lots of situational pieces to find and use? These things all help prevent power creep, which kills MMOs. -
12-31-2013, 05:20 AMAhzarhuuk
Why does everyone think FF XI was some sparkling gem of originality.
It mimicked Everquest. Just like FF XIV took note of other modern MMORPGs. -
12-31-2013, 05:25 AMReeth
I do enjoy the game as it is and for what it is, but I would be extremely happy if it also had the difficulty and depth that XI had.
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12-31-2013, 05:31 AMShadexI believe it is all the things that it did not take from EQ that made it great. The crafting system that actually mattered, open world events that were not GM required, the Campaign system, chocobo breeding, etc. There was so much more to XI than EQ and while I played EQ for years from launch, XI was the next evolutionary step. 14 just nuked itself back to cro magnon. Zog press one button... too hard!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk
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12-31-2013, 05:40 AMAhzarhuukI have a feeling you don't know what a Clone is.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX
I think you have your chronology mismatched if you think FF XIV is a regression of MMO Game evolutions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadex
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12-31-2013, 05:56 AMTiggy
There is a funny thing about subjective statements. They are opinions. Seems like a lot of people in this thread just want to argue opinions.
When it comes down to it though any company trying to make money on MMOs has a business imperative to make the game as accessible to as many people as possible and friendly to as many new players as possible. FFXI did not achieve those two goals what-so-ever, and that is the primary reason it never had a million subscribers. That style of MMO is dead, and for very good reasons. The fact FFXI is the most profitable game Square ever made doesn't change the fact that had it been easier to get into they would have made even more money. I have well over a dozen friends who I failed to convince to play past the free month simply because the game was so difficult to learn and slowly paced. I can't remember what the cost of the sub was, but lets assume 14 a month. If those 12 friends of mine had been able to learn the game more easily that's an extra 168 bucks a month they were loosing. Square understands this math which is why they've made the choices they have. Which MMO will be the most successful in retaining long term subs certainly remains to be seen, but constantly fostering a new and growing player base is a key part of the equation. While FFXI certainly had its good points it had many issues that prevented a steady stream of new players to the game. In my humble opinion they made the right choice by avoiding many of FFXI's pitfalls. I'm eager to see what kind of new content they can develop to keep me interested in the long term. -
12-31-2013, 06:04 AMDooGames don't need to appeal to the masses. Sport games, Dark Souls, Minecraft, etc. It gets dumbed down that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggy
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12-31-2013, 06:12 AMReethTrue, but it's a lot more profitable if they do. Which is why they made FFXIV the way they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doo