I've kicked players for wearing the wrong gear!

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Envoyé par Physic

its not a question of do you want to group with them, its a question of why they get to waste your time. If you are not a tank/healer, you may have have spent 10-30 minutes in queue, and however long in the dungeon before the kick. So why is the kickee paying the price in a random group finder?

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Because they were born the way they were and wish to do things the way they wish to do them. We don't get the option to change other people.

The price being paid is because we failed as a society to live in a perfect system where this issue should never have come up. Instead relying on a dictatorship of the majority, aka democracy. We all pay that price one way or another.

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Envoyé par Physic

we discussed this before, but ultimately you are conflating what should one do, and what can someone be punished for.

for example, if you and a friend punch some one in the face, and no one else sees, and you have fake alibi, you probably wont go to jail. That doesnt mean you should go around punching people in the face.

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For me personally I am not conflating the two. I would not do or ask something of someone that I personally would not be okay with. If someone were to remove me from a group because they found me annoying, thought I was undergeared, or what have you. I would not have an issue, if in place of removal they berated or mocked then I would take offense though even at that point I would simply eat the timer and do something else.

While I like to understand why people do certain things I have no real control over the actions of others, only control over mine. So I simply treat others as I am okay with being treated. Even if I am treated otherwise sure I will be annoyed and maybe even upset. At that point I might report the person even if no action will be taken, but if someone wrongs me normally simply ignore them as a person, while maybe trying to understand why such a thing happened through the help of my support group.

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Envoyé par CazzT

I think I'll zone in like this next time I'm on just for giggles.

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Make sure you're the tank or healer, just to scare people.

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Envoyé par Nedkel

This one is ilvl synced, so kicking someone for wearing lvl 50 gear for example would be abusing vote-kick.

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It's ilvl synced to 290. So if, continuing to use my original example, someone walked in with an average ilvl of 1, I'm not keeping them there.
In your example, 50 is still much too low.

You can play how you want wearing what you want, but if at least 2 others want to play differently you don't get much choice.

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Envoyé par Nedkel

This one is ilvl synced, so kicking someone for wearing lvl 50 gear for example would be abusing vote-kick.

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Do.. do you think it syncs you UP, or something?

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Envoyé par Nedkel

This one is ilvl synced, so kicking someone for wearing lvl 50 gear for example would be abusing vote-kick.

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You have to be trolling. I cannot think someone who values their time, even a little, would have your stance....

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Envoyé par Hash_Browns

Do.. do you think it syncs you UP, or something?

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Oh man I didn't even realize this is what they may have thought.
This is also why we probably have people wearing next to nothing. misunderstanding of level sync.

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Envoyé par JackHatchet

I wish Square-Enix would put class restrictions on accessories like they do with the rest of the gear.

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There is actually a reason they can't/don't do this and it's the same reason we STILL have one-handed black mage and white mage weapons in the game. For this example, let's talk about someone who tanked in Heavensward and haven't logged in since Stormblood, but didn't have their character deleted. Maybe they had the account just canceled for the time being, and now that player decides to return to the game. If they were playing the way players expected at the time, they will be wearing all slaying accessories with vitality melds. Now those accessories would be locked to Dragoon, Monk, and Samurai, no tanks. So how do you deal with a character who now has an illegal item equipped on their character? They did fix this in the content past Heavensward by having class restrictions on accessories, and soon you won't see incorrect main stat melds as all of that Materia will be removed from the game starting with Shadowbringers.

So in not too long, no one will be wearing any incorrect main stat gear in any content that actually matters.

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Envoyé par wereotter

There is actually a reason they can't/don't do this and it's the same reason we STILL have one-handed black mage and white mage weapons in the game. For this example, let's talk about someone who tanked in Heavensward and haven't logged in since Stormblood, but didn't have their character deleted. Maybe they had the account just canceled for the time being, and now that player decides to return to the game. If they were playing the way players expected at the time, they will be wearing all slaying accessories with vitality melds. Now those accessories would be locked to Dragoon, Monk, and Samurai, no tanks. So how do you deal with a character who now has an illegal item equipped on their character? They did fix this in the content past Heavensward by having class restrictions on accessories, and soon you won't see incorrect main stat melds as all of that Materia will be removed from the game starting with Shadowbringers.

So in not too long, no one will be wearing any incorrect main stat gear in any content that actually matters.

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Same way they fixed some item dependencies from 1.0 to 2.0. An NPC who trades items for others of the same purpose. So if you're a tank with Slaying gear, you can turn it in for fending versions.

This is another thread about you don't meet the "right" people in a PUG.

Gettin' old.

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Envoyé par Nedkel

This one is ilvl synced, so kicking someone for wearing lvl 50 gear for example would be abusing vote-kick.

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You may be misinformed about how the Level-Sync function works in this game.

Level-Sync only syncs overgeared players down to the maximum allowed for a specific dungeon.

For example, if I am ilvl 382 on my White Mage and I get into Castrum Abania, I will be synced down to ilvl 290.

If I put on my lvl 45/50 WHM AF armor and ~ilvl 50 accessories, I will not be synced up to 290. In fact, I cannot queue for the instance because my item level is too low.

I CAN, however, join Castrum Abania as a 382 synced to 290 and change my gear mid dungeon to lvl 50 gear, which will make me do the equivalent damage of a lvl 70 character wearing lvl 50 gear. With a macro you can change gearsets to do this instantly before the instance begins. I believe this is what Canadane was getting at.

Some people seem to be forgetting one little detail about leveling dungeons:

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Envoyé par Canadane

You can queue for Castrum Abania, the highest tier of leveling dungeon we have right now wearing a level 1 weapon and no gear at all.
You cannot reasonably expect someone to be just gracefully accepted that way.

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As per what the quote says, leveling dungeons don't have gear requirements. As the game progresses it's only going to get worse. There are requirements for 50, 60, and 70 content but not 1-49, 51-59, or 61-69 content.

First I would like to say, the ff14 community is one of the nices out there. Ppl talk and say hi, explain stuff if you are new to something they usualy arent mad if a mistake happens.
And I kinda get the reason behind the kicks, but I think its more damaging then helping. That person who just got kicked, wont improve in any way. Most of them will just keep going and worse, bc they had this experience, be even more stuck up to there point of view.
For me, I dont care what ppl are wearing. As long as we get to the end, im fine. If we start to die (no matter the gear of the movement) I just leave and seach for another group. Normaly that takes up to 5 trys and then Im out.

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Envoyé par Misao-Hana

First I would like to say, the ff14 community is one of the nices out there. Ppl talk and say hi, explain stuff if you are new to something they usualy arent mad if a mistake happens.
And I kinda get the reason behind the kicks, but I think its more damaging then helping. That person who just got kicked, wont improve in any way. Most of them will just keep going and worse, bc they had this experience, be even more stuck up to there point of view.
For me, I dont care what ppl are wearing. As long as we get to the end, im fine. If we start to die (no matter the gear of the movement) I just leave and seach for another group. Normaly that takes up to 5 trys and then Im out.

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I think you read kick, and thought the worst.

In the case the OP pointed out, the person being kicked has done something regressive. So your average player, even your average newbie will understand their main stat. Even if they don't initially they will by the time they're in the areas the OP described (he said he gives true newbies a chance). But the players being kicked are not newbies.

They are working on their next few classes (meaning they've leveled one at least already) and using the wrong gear on the current one. They're doing this to bypass the Item Level requirements. Its almost borderline exploitative. They know what they are doing. And they are doing it at the cost of a group having to pull them through it. So this isn't about them learning and improving. They've learned the system, they're gaming the system to help themselves at the cost of the group. That's not a nice thing to do. Joining a group under false pretenses is never a good thing.

Now like me, you might not really care. To be honest, I don't care for kicking someone for wearing derpy jewelry. I really don't, its not on my list of priorities. I don't even look at peoples' gear unless they're wearing something that looks cool. But the OP has the right to play with those whom he wishes to play with. And if the other players in the group think its reason enough to kick. Then they may kick for it.

That applies to groups that want to kick for people wearing glamours they don't like. Playing races they don't like. Or any other 'dumb' reason. As I said before, this is a democracy, a dictatorship of the majority.

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Envoyé par Kaethra

Same way they fixed some item dependencies from 1.0 to 2.0. An NPC who trades items for others of the same purpose. So if you're a tank with Slaying gear, you can turn it in for fending versions.

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You can trade them in now, but they don't delete the items and haven't put restrictions on how they can be equipped, and from what they've said, that's strictly because of people who are currently wearing them on jobs where it would be an illegal item to have equipped later.

I've kicked healers for larping as dps just so they could get fast queues.

Letting me die to single pack pulls because you'd rather cast stone is a no-no.

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Envoyé par Vercinotrix

I've kicked healers for larping as dps just so they could get fast queues.

Letting me die to single pack pulls because you'd rather cast stone is a no-no.

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I should do that next time a tank wants to RP as a training dummy and not use cooldowns correctly while pulling adds. :P

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Envoyé par JackHatchet

Yeah yeah, I know that's a loaded header, but hear me out!

I wish Square-Enix would put class restrictions on accessories like they do with the rest of the gear.

I can't tell you guys how many times I'll get into a group with a caster wearing a mix-match of DEX/STR rings and other accessories that don't offer them any use to their class. And to top it all off, literally every-time I've ever mentioned this to someone--the response is always extreme hostility or extreme arrogance.

I'm totally cool with new players who don't know better making mistakes and then willing to learn and improve. That's great, they get a pass, because they're trying! I'd never kick someone for trying.

But man, I ask some folks why they're using a strength ring on their blackmage, and they say it increases their hit chance. I tell them that's not right. And they blow up on me. Those are the people I kick. And I do it way too often for it to just be a fluke. Like once a week often.

Is there a way we can fix this?

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I've kicked players for being lalafell so I feel you
jk don't kick lalafells just punt them.

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Envoyé par EvalcieChevallier

I've kicked players for being lalafell so I feel you
jk don't kick lalafells just punt them.

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While a dick move a friend and I have kicked non lalalefells that make potato jokes or hug / pat emotes.

Does not happen often but I would be lying if I said I did not get a chuckle out of it when it does.

Color me surprised (or not) that there are in fact people who will defend a player wearing the wrong gear for their job.

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Envoyé par Azper

Color me surprised (or not) that there are in fact people who will defend a player wearing the wrong gear for their job.

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Personally still thrown back by how competence should not be expected, if content can be cleared then that is well enough. Or so that is how generally speaking it seems people within think.

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Envoyé par Azper

Color me surprised (or not) that there are in fact people who will defend a player wearing the wrong gear for their job.

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The worst part IMO, is they judge others who do decide they don't wish to group with those that do this. Their excuse is "well the content can be cleared fine with it." Sure.. it can. But the same content can be cleared by the healer and tank with the DPS standing at the entrance afk. But doubt they allow that. Even though every argument they make about the gear being 'fine' can also be made for afk dps that simply want the dungeon ran for them by an overtaxed healer and tank. But they think they can draw the line. They believe where they draw the line is the correct way to put it.

In reality the line is wherever the current majority of the group wants it to be. As it should be. They need to get off their high horse.

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Envoyé par Kaethra

They are working on their next few classes (meaning they've leveled one at least already) and using the wrong gear on the current one. They're doing this to bypass the Item Level requirements. Its almost borderline exploitative. They know what they are doing. And they are doing it at the cost of a group having to pull them through it. So this isn't about them learning and improving. They've learned the system, they're gaming the system to help themselves at the cost of the group. That's not a nice thing to do. Joining a group under false pretenses is never a good thing.

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Well, this is a argument that I can understand. To be honest, I wouldnt even notice such players - I would just assume they arent good at the rotation or something like that.
But to do it on purpose and being perfectly aware what they are doing - I get why they would get kicked.

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Envoyé par JackHatchet

I am blunt

aggressive and emotional responses

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You seriously don't see the connection here? I'm a blunt person as well. We need to be even more careful with our phrasing because it's so incredibly easy to be harsh. Being blunt does not excuse rudeness or harshness.

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Envoyé par Misao-Hana

Well, this is a argument that I can understand. To be honest, I wouldnt even notice such players - I would just assume they arent good at the rotation or something like that.
But to do it on purpose and being perfectly aware what they are doing - I get why they would get kicked.

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As I said before, I don't check people's gear. So in reality I'm like you. I do have a friend who does check the party's gear and they get vocal in voice about it. I tell them to let it slide and they pretty much do. But who the hell am I to tell three people in a group that they should ignore it? My friend is one thing. Complete strangers having their own standards is another thing entirely. They ought to have their own choices to make. Whatever that is.

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Envoyé par TaleraRistain

You seriously don't see the connection here? I'm a blunt person as well. We need to be even more careful with our phrasing because it's so incredibly easy to be harsh. Being blunt does not excuse rudeness or harshness.

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This is what I'm thinking. When someone says they get bad responses almost all the time, that throws up a big red flag for me for their own behaviour. Tone is hard to convey in plain text, and things often come across as more harsh than intended. So "blunt" can quickly become "harsh", "rude" or "judgey" and, depending on the subject, "patronising" or "elitist". So you've got to take some extra care that you're actually coming across the way you intend to (which isn't the same as "sugarcoating").

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Envoyé par JackHatchet

Is there a way we can fix this?

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Hi, Jack!

Short answer: no, we can't fix this. Only if and/or when SE enforce minimum ilevel and appropriate gear for the class/job when entering all duties, will this be a non-issue.

The only other thing you can do, if you feel the situation calls for it, is not to start off your question(s) to the offending player with "Why (is your gear crap/all wrong/stupidly low level)..?" If this is how you initiate conversation with the offending individual, know that it can immediately put them on the defensive, which could be part of the issue with the daft responses you've received. You noted your bluntness in other posts, so that's about the only thing you can constructively work on here: you.

How about, "*Player Name*, I was just checking your gear because your glamour is so cool, but then I saw *your item X/some of your gear*..."

a)"...is a bit low level to get the best out of your DPS/Heals/Tankiness"

b) "...isn't the gear recommended for getting the best out of your job."

"If you need tips for where to get better gear, just ask. Better gear makes for happier dungeon runs! :) "

- or a shorter version at your discretion. You could probably macro it to some extent if it keeps happening.

If you still get people being rude or ignoring you when you're trying to help, you can either suck it up for what it is and carry on, avoid using the duty finder and run with premades, or just do what you're doing already if the rest of your group agrees. Caveat reserved for those on Playstations with no keyboard. You could hazard a "/dance if you can't use chat, *player name*," and take it from there, but it's your call.


Whatever you do, I wish you the best with it. I've had to unsub unfortunately :( , and my access will go soon and I may not get back to the forums before to check on if you update and have success with the undergeared people.

Happy gaming all!

I'm in the opinion of play however you want BUT as soon as you're doing content with other people try playing the best you can because they are counting on you and it's not just you anymore.

Just bring it up nicely, people don't tend to react nicely if you're just blunt against them. "Hey I noticed that the gear you have isn't the best for your current class..." or something like that.

Idk. Seems a bit shallow to me. Not kick worthy imo

I wonder if the thread was made for validation or stool pelt tier discussion.

Ive been kicked for wearing stuff glamoured different than my class, now that's just ignorant and rude. <<

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Envoyé par Merryl

Ive been kicked for wearing stuff glamoured different than my class, now that's just ignorant and rude. <<

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Hopefully you reported them? I would have...

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Envoyé par Merryl

Ive been kicked for wearing stuff glamoured different than my class, now that's just ignorant and rude. <<

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People these days have no respect for fabulous.

Man, if it is this common maybe I should be checking out my party member's accessories more often. o.o

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Envoyé par Merryl

Ive been kicked for wearing stuff glamoured different than my class, now that's just ignorant and rude. <<

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Like Thaldor said, hopefully you reported them, especially if they said they were kicking you because of your glamour in chat.

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Envoyé par Mimilu

Like Thaldor said, hopefully you reported them, especially if they said they were kicking you because of your glamour in chat.

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thats gonna lead to nothing. Also you kinda implying that you should report people for kicking you period, always, which is asanaine. i dont know why most people push this fantasy narrative that kicking someone is a bannable offense. I can initiate a votekick if i dont like hair color. Thats perfectly legitimte. As long i don't harass you or use 3rd party tools there is no offense a GM can prosecute
if you dont belive me, ask a GM ingame, One of the most wild things i hear in mmos

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Envoyé par Kaitoo

thats gonna lead to nothing. Also you kinda implying that you should report people for kicking you period, always, which is asanaine. i dont know why most people push this fantasy narrative that kicking someone is a bannable offense. I can initiate a votekick if i dont like hair color. Thats perfectly legitimte. As long i don't harass you or use 3rd party tools there is no offense a GM can prosecute
if you dont belive me, ask a GM ingame, One of the most wild things i hear in mmos

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Glamour you dislike isn't a "difference in playstyle".

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Envoyé par JohnSpawnVFX

Glamour you dislike isn't a "difference in playstyle".

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Removing someone for their glam is perfectly reasonable.

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Envoyé par Awha

Removing someone for their glam is perfectly reasonable.

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Well then, that makes it kicking players from X race I dislike reasonable too.

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Envoyé par Awha

Removing someone for their glam is perfectly reasonable.

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You wot m8?