I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Except that both of those lines can be interpreted to mean the exact same thing. You assume that in the first he's speaking to Hydaelyn, while it is entirely plausible he's just speaking to himself (something Japanese characters have a tendency to do a lot). Anyone who watches anime or Japanese soaps can attest to that.

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You are right, both can be interpreted the same way, but in the English one it's harder to think he's actually talking to Hydaelyn.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Well I, and others, did so... yeah...

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Not the others, stop assuming others got the same interpretation, this part of the text have not been discussed in the thread, speak for yourself and don't assume we have to believe you every time you say you got that interpretation without being affected by the Japanese lines, because to this point it seems like you have got too many interpretations, in that case it will only prove how the EN text is not clear even for you.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Yea, you can say that.. after reading the direct JP translation to be able to make that judgement. Without that comparison, drawing that interpretation from the NA text alone becomes....... no. You aren't going to get the same thing out of it. Which is the issue.

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Maybe you can't, but some others can by paying attention and thinking it over. Either way, the differences don't seem to be as significant as people are making it out to be.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Except that both of those lines can be interpreted to mean the exact same thing. You assume that in the first he's speaking to Hydaelyn, while it is entirely plausible he's just speaking to himself (something Japanese characters have a tendency to do a lot). Anyone who watches anime or Japanese soaps can attest to that.

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Unless its particularly gifted writing, that stuff drives me crazy. STAPH TALKING TO YOUR-- OH YOU KN OW WHAT "click". Hah, turned you off. Also hate the plot point information dumps, popular to anime as well (not exclusive of course).

Also 'Sormr says hearken to me! Which is to listen, reaffirms he is talking to her.

"Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen..."
"Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent."

So in both versions it is clear he either attempts to or does talk to her. It is also clear they've spoken before and have some sort of agreement or mutual understanding.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Maybe you can't, but some others can by paying attention and thinking it over. Either way, the differences don't seem to be as significant as people are making it out to be.

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I'm talking about the entire conversation, not just one particular point. They are quite different.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Also 'Sormr says hearken to me! Which is to listen, reaffirms he is talking to her.

"Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen..."
"Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent."

So in both versions it is clear he either attempts to or does talk to her. It is also clear they've spoken before and have some sort of agreement or mutual understanding.

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good point, i also mentioned this.

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Originally Posted by Renik

From Zantitrach post
EN: Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent.

In English, he tells Hydaelyn to listen his words, by saying "i remember and i consent" he makes reference to a kind of pact between him and Hydaelyn, and he implies his acceptance of Hydaelyn's decision based on that non-existent (for now at least) pact, in no moment he seems to be listening to Hydaelyn's words.

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The problem is the rest of the sentence and the word Hearken itself, Hearken is an archaic form which is more imperative, in this sentence it can be interpreted in both ways, what is not clear is if he is in direct communication with Hydaelyn.

I'm sure you have read some books where the main characters says to the air something like "Hearken my enemy, i'll find you," it doesn't implies direct communication, the JP is not clear as well but the way they "talk" to Hydaelyn differs a lot between the two texts.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

I'm talking about the entire conversation, not just one particular point. They are quite different.

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I was talking about the entire conversation. Nothing in the transcript of JP wasn't already implied in the EN version. Are people just unable to read between lines or handle subtlety?

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Originally Posted by Miitan

That's a nice strawman there considering I stated nothing of the sort. I stated that seeing the Japanese text will affect recollections of the original and that there was clearly information that was not present in the English text. To claim that I think people 'daft' because they don't want to have to speculate on what the text could mean (where they could potentially be wrong) and that all the information was clearly available to anyone who wasn't 'daft' seems to suggest that you believe yourself superior to everyone else because 'I got it'.

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I admit, I posted that on a whim and didn't reread what I wrote. My apologies for coming off like an ass.

You stated reading the Japanese version of the text will affect peoples recollections. I understand that, and agree since it directly states information. I now know the more specific dialogue of the JP version. Had I discerned the information before seeing the translation? Yes, I would say I had for the most part. Would you believe that statement? Probably not.

However, there are many people who have yet to see the Japanese text, and did understand everything without all of the information being explicitly present in that specific conversation.

I didn't even know someone translated the JP version until I saw this thread last night (as I don't frequent Reddit), many more have yet to even learn of it. Yet we came to similar conclusions days before looking at the Japanese version. I do not think myself higher than anyone for coming to those conclusions, nor other people higher for piecing it together. I merely think that the EN version dialogue is fine as is and conveys all the necessary information in a manner befitting of the story.

The way the EN version of the conversation portrays and conveys information versus the JP version is very different. On one hand the information is implied in and after the conversation, on the other it is directly stated. Both convey the information just fine.

And again, not proofreading this one either. Don't have time.

Wanted to add another .02 to this. Given that Ramuh fought you to test you, there was precedent for Midgardsormr wanting to test you as well, and getting the minion basically spelled that out for me. So while I feel like reading between the lines is a thing that is possible, I also think that some parts of it are lacking or send a message that's different from how the JP version is.


"Thou art powerless to silence us, mortal. Yet thou shalt not live to labor in vain. Thy reprieve is at an end." So this part is very cliche villain speak. "I'm a bad guy and I'm going to do a thing that is bad but it's ok, you won't feel any pain because I'm going to kill you NOW" is how that came off when I played through before I read the JP version.

"Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen..." Sounds very similar to what Leviathan says when you pop the shield. In other words, a little miffed that you "cheated." The tone of it is just completely different to me than what the JP sentiment is. "This light... You protect him! Hydaelyn, you bestow more power on this one, who already bears the Echo!"

"Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent." Remember and consent to what, exactly?

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Originally Posted by Miitan

The issue is that by seeing the Japanese text, you unconsciously form a type of confirmation bias where you recall things in such a way that it confirms your idea that the English text contains everything the Japanese text did.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but we've been discussing whether a player could reasonably arrive at the same or very similar conclusions in the EN text as the JP text. No one is saying they knew it all along to save face or something petty and lazy like that.

Can a person reading the EN script reasonably arrive at the same or similar conclusion as someone reading the JP script? Many of us propose this is the case and at this point we are showing our work. There is enough in-game context before, during and after the encounter with Midgardsormr to characterize him in a consistent way across scripts.

We're not falling back on confirmation bias; it's literary analysis on what's essentially a young adult novel.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I was talking about the entire conversation. Nothing in the transcript of JP wasn't already implied in the EN version. Are people just unable to read between lines or handle subtlety?

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You may want to read the rest of the thread, there have already been multiple posts pointing out things that are never stated OR implied in the EN script. I'm not going to post them yet again... Some of you seem desperate to claim some kind of superiority by saying you understood things which could not be inferred at all from the EN script.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

You may want to read the rest of the thread, there have already been multiple posts pointing out things that are never stated OR implied in the EN script. I'm not going to post them yet again... Some of you seem desperate to claim some kind of superiority by saying you understood things which could not be inferred at all from the EN script.

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You may wish to read the thread as well, since many of those "points" are either outright debunked or are hotly contested with neither side able to definitively settle their point.

Inataki, it is understood that you are passionate in your defense of the Localization, but please do not mistake refutal for debunking.

My FC is running an event now. During such, when I have moments, I will be working on my breakdown of the claims being made and where they are being applied. Some claims being made, I do agree, are in error their is a wide variety of claims that have not been addressed, let alone refuted or debunked. And those who have attempt to debunk have not addressed counter-points. As such the conversation has become quite muddeled and I would like to attempt to bring it on track.

Please keep in mind, I am doing this breakdown for the benefit of the developers as to future works, to clarify my personal stance and collect a comprehensive feedback. This feedback can be discussed and mulled over, but I ask that we remember that we were instructed by a GM to keep it civil and constructive.

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

Line 7-9

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JP: You bid me to stop the war? You might possess the Echo, but you're just a human. I cannot grant such wish.
I have awoken to answer to the roar for it was not me who roared, but one of my seven sons.
As Ishgard doesn't want to repent, my child and their people will not delay the retribution. The land shall burn, their people shall die, the justice will be done.
EN: Seven children did I sire. One now singeth of retribution.
I rise to join in the chorus...
Thou art powerless to silence us, mortal. Yet thou shalt not live to labor in vain. Thy reprieve is at an end.

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Indicates that this is all still about their past sin, NOT a current one so the tone is NOT completely different and that "EN implies dragons are just angry people without a good reason." is not the case

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Umm... I'm sorry, but I really can't read, "As Ishgard doesn't want to repent," as an indication that it's all about past sins. Not wanting to repent = still doing the bad things. In other words, reiterating the whole "they're about to sin again" deal and putting that as the immediate cause for retribution. (Since it appears they might be willing to delay it if the Ishgardians weren't about to do Bad Things again...)


My opinion on the whole is... I wouldn't mind the English version that much if it wasn't for the fact that it seems to be the only language that takes that path. Haven't seen any direct translations of the French and German versions, admittedly, and I don't know the languages nearly well enough to attempt to understand it directly, so if any of you players who do know those languages would be kind enough to help with that it would be awesome indeed. But from the comments I've seen in this thread, French and German versions seem to be following the Japanese text a lot better.

And yes, the impression I got was pretty much a, "Fine, Mama Crystal likes you despite you being a tiny ant, so I won't kill you -- but I'll stand by and laugh if someone else does (say, a dragon maybe? *innocent leer*). And I'll make sure you can't cheat by drawing on Her powers, either."
Even after reading through the English dialogue after seeing the more directly translated version, I still get the image of Midgardsormr grudgingly agreeing to uphold some pact he and Hydaelyn seem to have. And that he clearly doesn't really like her either. (I mean... "trickery is thy shield"? He's pretty much calling Hydaelyn 'trickery', since she's the one shielding us.)

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Umm... I'm sorry, but I really can't read, "As Ishgard doesn't want to repent," as an indication that it's all about past sins. Not wanting to repent = still doing the bad things. In other words, reiterating the whole "they're about to sin again" deal and putting that as the immediate cause for retribution. (Since it appears they might be willing to delay it if the Ishgardians weren't about to do Bad Things again...)

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Repentance

noun
1.
deep sorrow, compunction, or contrition for a past sin, wrongdoing, or the like.
2.
regret for any past action.

Every single opinion of this thread is completely biased (including mine) because we know the English and the Japanese version.

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Originally Posted by Renik

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

Snip

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You quoted me with one of your sentences instead of mine.

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These quotes are ALL your quotes. So no, its right.

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Originally Posted by Renik

but they have omitted information in the English script, and the have changed his personality, by making him more bad than wise, they even changed the relation Midgar and Hydaelyn have.

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The only thing that they could have technically omitted was the current state of sinning in Ishgard. And I see that as dubious at best. The relationship has not changed either. So I don't know where you're getting that from.

Bahahaha

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Originally Posted by Renik

and he finally acts like if he were listening to Hydaelyn's words telling him to give us more power.

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No he doesn't, he's musing aloud. Its a stereotypical dragon thing to do at that. If anything the EN gives us more context to the JP translation because now we know the whole thing about

Midgardsormr giving us his power and testing us is all because of a long ago pact he made with Hydaelyn "I remember and I consent"

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Originally Posted by Renik

Here you have the rest of the text where he seems to be talking to Hydaelyn, in the first he talks to Hydaelyn, we can't know if she is listening or not, as you said this is just speculation until we can advance in the story, but EN text just implies how Midgar notices Hydaelyn's intentions in our power.
Also i have took the sentences from Zantitrach's post, who disagrees with me, i have not been tricky or tried to hide anything, you can check the whole text in the previous page (depending on your forum settings).

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Again, he's musing aloud, not communicating with Hydaleyn. Its what dragons do. There is 0 evidence that shows the communication with Hydaleyn is a one or two way street. The exact claim you're making that Midgardsormr is communicating with Hydaleyn and acting on her wishes is the exact same thing that

Minifilla does later in the story when she's all like "Can you hear me, please respond!"

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Without that comparison, drawing that interpretation from the NA text alone becomes....... no. You aren't going to get the same thing out of it. Which is the issue.

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Except its not. It was obvious to me Midgardsormr was just musing aloud since he witnessed Hydaleyn's shield.

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Originally Posted by Renik

You are right, both can be interpreted the same way, but in the English one it's harder to think he's actually talking to Hydaelyn.
No, they're both JUST him talking to Hydaleyn. Since you NEVER HEAR HYDAELYN you CANNOT say he was having a 2 way conversation with her no matter what translation you use.

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Originally Posted by Renik

Not the others, stop assuming others got the same interpretation,

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Only if you will do the same kettle, only then.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

You may wish to read the thread as well, since many of those "points" are either outright debunked or are hotly contested with neither side able to definitively settle their point.

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I guess the point is, if the English script is creating two wildly different perspectives of the conversations as opposed to the Japanese translation, then perhaps that is a failure of the localization team to properly translate the meaning of it.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

I guess the point is, if the English script is creating two wildly different perspectives of the conversations as opposed to the Japanese translation, then perhaps that is a failure of the localization team to properly translate the meaning of it.

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That's what happen when the localization team embellish the text and spice it up with old English for fantasy immersion. It sucks if you aren't somewhat familiar with classic English literature and understanding tone and diction (sorry to most non-native reader/speak), but that's just the reality that you have to live with. The lore and localization team set a certain level of reading comprehension that they expect out of the reader and you more or less need to get better at it if you want to enjoy the story.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Umm... I'm sorry, but I really can't read, "As Ishgard doesn't want to repent," as an indication that it's all about past sins. Not wanting to repent = still doing the bad things.

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Flat out wrong. Repenting is NOT about current actions. I'm sorry you did not know that. Someone provided you with the definition though, so today you learned something.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

My opinion on the whole is... I wouldn't mind the English version that much if it wasn't for the fact that it seems to be the only language that takes that path. Haven't seen any direct translations of the French and German versions, admittedly, and I don't know the languages nearly well enough to attempt to understand it directly

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That paths are 99% identical with the remaining 1% being a grey area. Also kudos to you for making a story judgement call on the languages you haven't seen translated nor understand well enough to see what they say.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

I guess the point is, if the English script is creating two wildly different perspectives of the conversations as opposed to the Japanese translation, then perhaps that is a failure of the localization team to properly translate the meaning of it.

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Its only doing this because people aren't reading into it. Heck, sometimes they don't even understand the words they used, as refernced above.

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Originally Posted by Namasu

That's what happen when the localization team embellish the text and spice it up with old English for fantasy immersion. It sucks if you aren't somewhat familiar with classic English literature and understanding tone and diction (sorry to most non-native reader/speak), but that's just the reality that you have to live with. The lore and localization team set a certain level of reading comprehension that they expect out of the reader and you more or less need to get better at it if you want to enjoy the story.

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All the likes for you. This, a thousand times this.

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Originally Posted by Namasu

That's what happen when the localization team embellish the text and spice it up with old English for fantasy immersion. It sucks if you aren't somewhat familiar with classic English literature and understanding tone and diction (sorry to most non-native reader/speak), but that's just the reality that you have to live with. The lore and localization team set a certain level of reading comprehension that they expect out of the reader and you more or less need to get better at it if you want to enjoy the story.

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...I don't understand this point. It's not the 'old-English' that's most confusing for me. It's literally leaving huge chunks of the script out.

But, to add to this point: I consider myself a well-educated person. I'm college-educated, working on a veterinary medicine degree as I type this. No, I am not a linguist or familiar with classic English literature. I shouldn't NEED to be in order to understand a translation of a conversation that is supposed to be well-understood by the majority of the audience.

If you want to imply that your reading comprehension is better based on your last sentence, then that's incredibly pompous of you. I'm surprised there isn't a classic English literature pre-test for this patch then. /sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Parodine

If you want to imply that your reading comprehension is better, then that's incredibly pompous of you.

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If the people defending your argument are gonna outright call us liars for understanding the English translation to mean the same thing as the Japanese translation, then I would have no trouble telling you my reading comprehension would be better.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

Snip

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

If the people defending your argument are gonna outright call us liars for understanding the English translation to mean the same thing as the Japanese translation, then I would have no trouble telling you my reading comprehension would be better.

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I never called you a liar, so I don't see why that attitude should apply to your interactions with me.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

I never called you a liar, so I don't see why that attitude should apply to your interactions with me.

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There been pretty much 2 defenses to your sides argument:

1. The stuff isn't there
2. Basically this:

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Originally Posted by Miitan

Snip

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We have pointed out MANY, MANY times that the stuff is there. So people are falling back on #2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

If the people defending your argument are gonna outright call us liars for understanding the English translation to mean the same thing as the Japanese translation, then I would have no trouble telling you my reading comprehension would be better.

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Uh huh... you wanna tell me where it says in the English text that Midgard was asked to give you power? Oh wait, it's not there. It's not even implied.

What of the line 'Man hath ever coveted that which lieth beyond his grasp', which from the previous line implies that our struggle is in vain. Stark contrast to the translation which tells you your trial is effectively to end the war. I'm with the OP, the original Japanese makes it far less ambiguous and actually drops more plot than the translation.

You can argue reading comprehension til you're blue in the face. Ambiguous is still ambiguous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

There been pretty much 2 defenses to your sides argument:

1. The stuff isn't there
2. Basically this:

We have pointed out MANY, MANY times that the stuff is there. So people are falling back on #2.

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Edit: Just forget it. You're arguing with me like I represent this entire side. I don't. Just my perspective on my why it was confusing to me. That rando person's quote doesn't represent my interactions with you or anyone else in this thread.

The Japanese translation in the reddit post had a disclaimer that its not how it actually appears in the game to the japanese players but that only the meaning was translated. So no reason to think that Midgarosmir just sounds all exposition-like there with no dragon-y flavor.

When he spoke in old-english I just felt like 'great, here Urianger/ Ramuh goes again'. Plus dragons are not sphynx, there is little reason for them to state their intentions in a cryptic and long-winded manner. 'Ishgard shall burn' is what stands out since its rather direct with a lot of power behind it, as opposed to 'In the flameth of the blaze doth the city of the mortals shall meet thine end'.

There is very little reason for him to give us power in the English version. He despises the fact that Hydelyn protects us since as a mortal we are automatically a villain in his eyes. So he removes the Blessing to see if we would die without it and spare him the trouble of killing us himself.

In Japanese version he wants to see our potential for himself (and believes Hydelyn already saw it in us) before bestowng more strength.

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Originally Posted by Azurr

And there were no hints that he plans on returning our Blessing later in the English version. He despises the fact that Hydelyn protects us since as a mortal we are automatically a villain in his eyes. So he removes the Blessing to see if we would die without it and spare him the trouble of killing us himself.

In Japanese version he wants to see our potential for himself (and believes Hydelyn already saw it in us) before bestowng more strength.

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He doesn't mention anything about returning the blessing to you in japanese either.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Uh huh... you wanna tell me where it says in the English text that Midgard was asked to give you power? Oh wait, it's not there. It's not even implied.

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You wanna tell me where in the Japanese text that Midgardsormr was asked to give you power? Oh wait, it's not there.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

What of the line 'Man hath ever coveted that which lieth beyond his grasp', which from the previous line implies that our struggle is in vain. Stark contrast to the translation which tells you your trial is effectively to end the war. I'm with the OP, the original Japanese makes it far less ambiguous and actually drops more plot than the translation.

You can argue reading comprehension til you're blue in the face. Ambiguous is still ambiguous.

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It has already been said that the Japanese translation beats you over the head with the entire plot. And we've said the English version shows you that same plot, but it doesn't beat you over the head with it. Many interpreted the meaning from the English version, as has been said in the thread.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

Edit: Just forget it. You're arguing with me like I represent this entire side. I don't. Just my perspective on my why it was confusing to me. That rando person's quote doesn't represent my interactions with you or anyone else in this thread.

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You have yet to make any declaration of argument, so I must assume you're argument is like the others. I'd love to use my reading comprehension that we've mentioned, but you're giving me literally nothing to work with.

Make a different argument and we'll talk. As a recap, here's all your posts

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Originally Posted by Parodine

Oh wow, I was actually completely unaware there was an alternate point of view.

My impression listening to the English cutscene was that Midgardsomr resented Hydayln's blessing thinking he couldn't kill me when I had, and took it away so maybe one of his kin or someone else could kill me. I never got the impression that I was being tested, just being messed with. Especially with 'Ishgard will burn'. It's intensified in the next scenes following as Moenbryda is about to die and we can't get Hydayln to listen to us 'If only he didn't take my echo!'

I hope in the next story arc Ishgard's sins are brought to the light and we see what japanese midgard was talking about :(

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In this one you didn't even know the Echo was seperate from Hydaleyn's blessing. You also don't point out anything missing from the English translation, so you just show your own ignorance of the story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parodine

I guess the point is, if the English script is creating two wildly different perspectives of the conversations as opposed to the Japanese translation, then perhaps that is a failure of the localization team to properly translate the meaning of it.

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In this one you just say that the English is different, its a failure of the localization team, buy you don't say why its different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parodine

...I don't understand this point. It's not the 'old-English' that's most confusing for me. It's literally leaving huge chunks of the script out.

But, to add to this point: I consider myself a well-educated person. I'm college-educated, working on a veterinary medicine degree as I type this. No, I am not a linguist or familiar with classic English literature. I shouldn't NEED to be in order to understand a translation of a conversation that is supposed to be well-understood by the majority of the audience.

If you want to imply that your reading comprehension is better based on your last sentence, then that's incredibly pompous of you. I'm surprised there isn't a classic English literature pre-test for this patch then. /sarcasm

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This is the only "argument" you've made. That huge chunks of the script have been left out, but you don't elaborate on what chunks. Since this has already been discussed in the thread, I assume you're referring to the same bits (just like everyone else) which have been discussed at length.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azurr

And there were no hints that he plans on returning our Blessing later in the English version. He despises the fact that Hydelyn protects us since as a mortal we are automatically a villain in his eyes. So he removes the Blessing to see if we would die without it and spare him the trouble of killing us himself.

In Japanese version he wants to see our potential for himself (and believes Hydelyn already saw it in us) before bestowng more strength.

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As mentioned there's nothing in the Japanese translation that says he plans on returning our Blessing later either. You then incorrectly interpreted the rest of his speech. In the English version, he wants to see our potential for himself as well, before granting us something else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Uh huh... you wanna tell me where it says in the English text that Midgard was asked to give you power?

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"I remember... and I consent."

He was never explicitly asked to give you power in either version; he was simply compelled to fulfill the terms of a prior pact between himself and Hydaelyn.

When he talks about the blessing in Japanese, he states that it would have eventually failed you anyway. When he talks about it in English, he derides it as feeble. The exact same thing communicated in different ways.

I got confused about the part of him returning the Blessing but there is still one striking difference and why English one rises much more questions:

English: We are a lowly mortal, unworthy of the power given to us by Hydelyn, since 'we are not gifted but chosen'. He already made his decision - we cant play a pivotal role in anything, and he is saddened he has to obey Hydelyn's wish to not kill us.

Japanese: He is in the process of making a decision. Are we worthy of the new power and can we use that power to play a large role in shaping the fate of the realm?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azurr

I got confused about the part of him returning the Blessing but there is still one striking difference and why English one rises much more questions:

English: We are a lowly mortal, unworthy of the power given to us by Hydelyn, since 'we are not gifted but chosen'. He already made his decision - we cant play a pivotal role in anything, and he is saddened he has to obey Hydelyn's wish to not kill us.

Japanese: He is in the process of making a decision. Are we worthy of the new power and can we use that power to play a large role in shaping the fate of realm?

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He absolutely sees us as lowly, which imo makes sense in terms of the game's story, but I did not feel like his decision was finite as much as begrudgingly made. He accepts whatever the Mother crystal's agreement was, and then encourages us to swim against the stream and fight the powers that be.

I feel like the English localization team goes way too far sometimes... the whole pirate-style language with every limsa npc is quite annoying and i don't like how they use that "ye olde english" for every single script... what's wrong with talking normally?

why use "Mayhap" when they could just use "Perhaps" or "Maybe"? it feels like every single character in this game went to the same english school.... spice it up a little please? yes this is a role playing game in a fantasy world but that doesn't mean we should stick to ye olde english for everything, i want to see normal spoken english for some characters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

You wanna tell me where in the Japanese text that Midgardsormr was asked to give you power? Oh wait, it's not there.

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

Line 11:

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JP: Could it be, you think him special? Hydaelyn, you wish me to grant him power?
EN: Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent.

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So you say... "EN version muddies up the connotation that Midgarsormr is not just in accord with Hydaelyn but that he is ACTUALLY GIVING THE PC MORE POWER BY HER CONSENT" When the English version clearly states he's doing something by her consent? Like, they even use the word consent....

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It's right there, in one of your own previous posts, must have been a brain fart there friend :3

So tl;dr of this thread

OP: I think the English translation leaves too much out and doesn't contain all the information the Japanese translation does.
Rebuttal: You're stupid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

It's right there, in one of your own previous posts, must have been a brain fart there friend :3

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Don't mock him, his reading comprehension is better than ours! Don't you know? :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miitan

So tl;dr of this thread

OP: I think the English translation leaves too much out and doesn't contain all the information the Japanese translation does.
Rebuttal: You're stupid.

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OP: as you said
Rebuttal: slightly different per person, myself - I believe the EN version is better story and that the Japanese version would have bored and borderline insulted me. "Oh how weak you are to be insulted" yea yea, jab all you want. It came across like they (Japanese version) didn't trust me to rub two stones together, and I hate those stories. I recognize there is a different sense of clarity, but I wager that the difference was either construct-able information or information that would have came natural per a good story's traits to do so.

I haven't addressed the want to have the same exact message cross clients because I dont really care but I could see some people wanting it. My rebuttal to that would be So? lol. Which I felt like was unnecessary just by stating I greatly preferred a bit of construction, reference, and maybe answers to speculate and look forward to. Also I like how he regards us, it fits better - imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parodine

Don't mock him, his reading comprehension is better than ours! Don't you know? :rolleyes:

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Never fear friend reading comprehension only helps if you give one something to dissect! And anyways I'm a theory-crafter of a sorts so being proven wrong on something I said earlier won't hurt naught but my pride.

As a theory-crafter I do like the amount of speculation that the EN version allows, the JP version merely supports or defeats my theories. some were supported (Middy having some link to Hydaelyn, but that was pretty obvious), others defeated (Middy taking your powers away to be a meanie, but he's just testing me so it cool) I'm honestly interested to how the JP journal differs from the EN journal. the localization style choice may have less of an impact if the journals are overly similar (meaning the PC understands whats going on better then some of the players do ~Nyaahahaha)


[EDIT:] Well that AND I do still have this Titan Tail Self Defence System ~Mew

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

It's right there, in one of your own previous posts, must have been a brain fart there friend :3

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You should re-read the text then.
"You wanna tell me where in the Japanese text that Midgardsormr was asked to give you power? Oh wait, it's not there."

JP: Could it be, you think him special? Hydaelyn, you wish me to grant him power?

Nowhere do you see Hydaleyn or anyone ask Midgardsormr to grant you power. Midgardsormr is talking aloud. That is all you can actually say. Unless you can see/hear Hydaleyn ask/say something, it didn't happen. So again, you wanna tell me where in the Japanese text that Midgardsorm was asked to give you power?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parodine

Don't mock him, his reading comprehension is better than ours! Don't you know? :rolleyes:

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Considering you both failed to understand the conversation even after quoting me in it, yeah. Good job proving my point.

EN Midgardsormr was vague enough and the context came across as his intent isn't quite to -test- but to taunt you. He thinks you're so lowly. "Try all you want you little tiny p.o.s it's not like you can do anything." It doesn't read as a -challenge- but to mock you. He thinks that you aren't anything. Certainly not something worthy to be chosen by Hydaelyn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

You should re-read the text then.
"You wanna tell me where in the Japanese text that Midgardsormr was asked to give you power? Oh wait, it's not there."

JP: Could it be, you think him special? Hydaelyn, you wish me to grant him power?

Nowhere do you see Hydaleyn or anyone ask Midgardsormr to grant you power. Midgardsormr is talking aloud. That is all you can actually say. Unless you can see/hear Hydaleyn ask/say something, it didn't happen. So again, you wanna tell me where in the Japanese text that Midgardsorm was asked to give you power?

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The important part of reading comprehension is to take into account all of the given source, the EN translation is actually very important to this part. Considering both to be canon to the story: "[...] I remember... and I consent" from the English version is very important here.

"Could it be, you think him special? [...]" - Midgardsormr questions Hydaelyn's decision, he doesn't trust the PC do to him being, you know, one of them Spoken-types.

" [...] Hydaelyn, you wish me to grant him power?" - Midgardsormr recalls what Hydaelyn asked him to do, talking to one's self is a favourite of information tactics writers for game development use

and based on his actions and words after this point, though he does consent to Hydaelyn's wish, he is not going to blindly follow it. Instead he plans to test the PC to make sure he won't misuse the given power.

[EDIT:] I believe made a major flaw in the above, pretty sure Zant can figure it out and I am looking forward to his dissection of it. ~Nyaa Not going to delete it because it is valid assuming 1. Both localizations are canon and 2. both localizations contain similar but still slightly different details in them, which do to lack of information at this point I'm pretty sure is a logical fallacy of some kinds, I pretty sure someone will point it out :3