Boycotting Warrior 4.0 (Let's do it!)

Patch 4.1. Please look forward to it, WAR mains.

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Originally Posted by dmcincubus

Patch 5.0. Please look forward to it, WAR mains.

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FTFY.

Characters for length.

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Originally Posted by dmcincubus

Patch 4.1. Please look forward to it, WAR mains.

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more like patch 5.0, IMO they're not going to fix it they did this to put WAR in position where PLD was in 3.x, everything is done on purpose
i think the only thing we can do is deal with it

I was just getting back into tanking during last weeks and boom! - no Bloodbath!

I'm switching to PLD for tanking. Warrior does not feel like a proper tank anymore. I liked its survivability and flexibility. It has none of it now. It's boring!

I'd literally just gotten into FF14 due to a friend bugging me. I was actually enjoying the Warrior dungeon gameplay and had planned to upgrade my standard account to Stormblood. After 4.0.. hell no. I play the same basic archtype in every game I think. That being the self healing/lifestealing tank. I like having a massive health pool, and a way to self heal at least on a minor scale. Preferable with lots of AoE. Examples D2: WW Barb, EQ: SK, AO: Keeper, DAoC: Reaver, WoW: all tank specs, ect. Thus the Warrior was a good fit for me. 2 weeks after I start they rework the fucking thing into something I hate. I lost 5 hotkeys entirely, the role skills are basically just ways to get back abilities I already had.... cross class skills are effectively removed, Bloodbath was literally the reason I picked warrior to begin with.

Any devoloper that reinvents a character I love when I don't want it changed... ain't getting my money. This exact crap is why I quit WoW back in Cata.

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Originally Posted by Flarestar

I appear to be one of the few here that doesn't actually view what they did as "ruining" anything.

We gained substantial mitigation, and the beast gauge + 66 trait actually give us a huge amount of uptime on Inner Beast when tanking. Assuming you're using it intelligently you'll be able to have 20% damage reduc....

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blah blah blah too long sorry.

You realize that 90% of the community couldn't care less about the bleeding edge late game content right? Most of use queue with pugs, or derp around on dailies with friends/run fates. Warrior was utterly gutted for all of that content. It's sad when my first thought upon seeing a fate is now "let me swap over to anything but warrior cause I'd just be useless."

To be honest, I'm more than happy with current Warrior.
And before defending my point of view, lemme say something.
Maybe, and I'll repeat, MAYBE, one of the reasons we feel so hurt or bad at the moment (we or you, as I'm not feeling weak at all) is because we were so insanely strong in Heavensward. Denying it would be lying really hard after all. We were not strong, but incredibly strong, and everyone knew it.
Having been on the top or even god-tier for a whole expansion is making it feel the new changes even more.

However, I personally don't feel them like bad changes. Just it's a new way of playing WAR and gotta get used to it. (1)

1) Onslaught and Upheaval: I find that having a BG cost is fair. First of all, yes, DRK have a no-cost dash, but PLD does not have one on the other hand. We do have one and hella fast and hella cool I must say. It does damage and has increased enmity, and, in case you haven't noticed, it's a lot faster than Plunge, by far. It's almost instant. With Upheaval I find myself with a 30s skill that hits hard (300 potency at full HP) for only 20BG and ignoring Defiance penaly. That means that it's 15 Potency for every BG point. Fell Cleave is 10 Potency for every BG point. Yes, it has no CD, but come on, it's a hard-hitting ability, incredibly cool-looking and ignores Defiance penalty, what helps a lot while tanking. In addition, as someone said in another topic, having 20BG cost helps with our BG management. With 2 combos giving 20BG and one giving 30BG, having two abilities consuming 20BG helps giving some depth to our rotation and management, what makes the job more interesting. (2)

2) Regarding Stance swap: Yes, I recognize it's a pain to lose 50% our BG when we swap. However, on the other hand, I feel like it is encouraging me to play using my brain a little since I know I will lose some BG. This makes me enjoy the dungeons or trials, having to think about how much BG I have and will generate so the cost of my skills synchronize. It's a shame we lose 50% of our BG, but same happens to PLD, I like to see it as a new way to play my class and one that does require a bit of brain usage.

3) Losing Bloodbath: Yes, I felt this one too. A lot, but, come on, god-tier AoE pulls? Not even fair. However, I too must say I'm finding no issues at the moment without it. Pulling 2x or 3x pulls, using CDs in sequence and with the help and heal of Equilibrium, plus the heal of Inner Beast and Storm's Path I'm able to survive perfectly and do a lot of damage.(3)

4) Infuriate only in combat: For this one I have nothing to say. It's a bad desing and I hope it gets hotfixed to be able to use it outside combat to for prepulls. Infuriate -> Berserk -> Onslaught -> Overpower -> Heavy Swing -> Maim -> Storm's Eye -> Steel Cyclone would be perfect and easier for AoE pulls.

5) And finally, I'm still only 64, almost 65, but I can only dream about the moment I'll get my hands on Inner Release and Fell Cleave x 6 or anything x 6, that will be so awesome the orgasms won't stop for a week.

After all, what I want to say, is that I really understand that you feel hurt and even betrayed by SE, but I don't feel like WAR is in a bad state, we still have a lot of damage, now even mobility. For me it's just a matter to overcome what we have left and learn to enjoy and use what we have been given. SB WAR is not HW WAR and as so, we should learn to play and enjoy it. Classes change, we must change too.

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Originally Posted by Achelon

Yes, I recognize it's a pain to lose 50% our BG when we swap.

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Why does no one acknowledge how awesome it is to be able to build 100 instead of complaining than you can not have more than what IB requres after swap (Which was always th case) ? Now, you can naturally do 2 Fell Cleaves back to back. And also, you can build Gauge faster than before with Storm's Path.

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Originally Posted by Achelon

4) Infuriate only in combat: For this one I have nothing to say. It's a bad desing and I hope it gets hotfixed to be able to use it outside combat to for prepulls.

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The thing is, prepulls are painful. Having to wait 45 seconds for a WAR to do its trick is boring as hell. Even NIN got something to remove the 23s prepulls. Besides, by the time you start your opener, you basically didn't let anyone put their buffs and debuffs, meaning that the first GCDs on your berserk window will be weak.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Why does no one acknowledge how awesome it is to be able to build 100 instead of complaining than you can not have more than what IB requres after swap (Which was always th case) ? Now, you can naturally do 2 Fell Cleaves back to back. And also, you can build Gauge faster than before with Storm's Path.

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This isn't new. I did the Triple Fell Cleave opener 90% of the time throughout Heavensward. People are complaining because Warrior went from a fantastic job to one now languishing behind Paladin. For all the talk of how Warrior was too strong. Have y'all seen Paladin? It makes Warrior and Dark Knight look like complete jokes. All the swap cost does is encourage even more players to switch to Deliverance faster and stay in it longer.

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The thing is, prepulls are painful. Having to wait 45 seconds for a WAR to do its trick is boring as hell. Even NIN got something to remove the 23s prepulls. Besides, by the time you start your opener, you basically didn't let anyone put their buffs and debuffs, meaning that the first GCDs on your berserk window will be weak.

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... that isn't how a good pre-pull works. In Heavenward, my Triple Cleave lined up perfectly fine with Machinist's Hypercharge and Ninja's Trick Attack. I just delayed my second Cleave a little. I don't actually mind this change though.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This isn't new. I did the Triple Fell Cleave opener 90% of the time throughout Heavensward.

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No, sorry, that's totally new. Because what you needed to do the Triple Fell Cleave in HW now allows you to do the Hexa Fell Cleave.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

People are complaining because Warrior went from a fantastic job to one now languishing behind Paladin.

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People complain a lot about how WAR's gameplay has changed, and not about its numbers.

If they complained more about how its DPS could be lacking compared to PLD (And even DRK)...then I'd be totally okay with that. WAR should have higher DPS because it now has clearly less group mitigation.

But for that, I'd like to see actual DPS numbers, which were not provided yet to claim that PLD is really that powerful.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

People complain a lot about how WAR's gameplay has changed, and not about its numbers.

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In fact, what I really see people complaining about, is that WAR is not the best tank, god-tier anymore, and that is behind Paladin, who has been the worst tank for a whole expansion.
So it all comes to "I'm not the most broken tank and in fact I'm behind in something to other tanks, so I'm shit".

We have better damage than DRK, and we still have to see if PLD do have better damage than we do or not (at level 70 we can have Infuriate aproximately every 30s with the trait).
We have better mobility than Paladin but worse than DRK.
We have better AoE than PLD (my opinion on this tho) but worse than DRK (not in damage but in options).
We have worse mitigation than DRK and PLD.
We have better sustain than DRK or PLD (Storm's Path, Equilibrium and Inner Beast).

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Originally Posted by Achelon

We have worse mitigation than DRK and PLD.

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Very debatable.

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Originally Posted by Achelon

So it all comes to "I'm not the most broken tank and in fact I'm behind in something to other tanks, so I'm shit".

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I would be sad if that state overshadows some constructive criticism about the new WAR.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Very debatable.

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Personal mitigation ? Debatable
Group mitigation ? Undoubtedly lower

People complain about the stance swap cost cause you spend time building up your gouge just to loose it.
Ofcourse you can swap at 0 gauge but then you stand there with 0 gauge afterall not allowing you to do that 6x FC what so many people are praising, cause you need 2 eye and 2 path combos to get your full gauge.
Atm it just feels somewhat sluggish and unrewarding to even swap your stance.
And the CD share from unchained and inner release is just stupid.
WAR isnt broken or whatever. It just feels unrewarding to play

We will need to see if group mitigation is even a thing in the new savage content. The extreme primals don't seem to need that much.

With the new cross skills there is so much damage reduction flying around that it's already silly.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, sorry, that's totally new. Because what you needed to do the Triple Fell Cleave in HW now allows you to do the Hexa Fell Cleave.

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The Hexa Fell Cleave is, but your post implied multiple Fell Cleaves wasn't possible when it was. You simply burned Raw and Vengeance for stacks.

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Originally Posted by Achelon

In fact, what I really see people complaining about, is that WAR is not the best tank, god-tier anymore, and that is behind Paladin, who has been the worst tank for a whole expansion.
So it all comes to "I'm not the most broken tank and in fact I'm behind in something to other tanks, so I'm shit".

We have better damage than DRK, and we still have to see if PLD do have better damage than we do or not (at level 70 we can have Infuriate aproximately every 30s with the trait).
We have better mobility than Paladin but worse than DRK.
We have better AoE than PLD (my opinion on this tho) but worse than DRK (not in damage but in options).
We have worse mitigation than DRK and PLD.
We have better sustain than DRK or PLD (Storm's Path, Equilibrium and Inner Beast).

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Plenty of people wanted the other tanks brought closer to Warrior's level. What SE did is nerf the other two while buffing Paladin into the moon. They essentially traded one god tier tank for another... which only promotes Paladin to the "mandatory" tank slot.

Warrior butches Dark Knight in terms of pure mitigation. Vengeance is a better CD than Shadow Wall; Dark Mind lost its unique factor and DRK now has nothing to compare against Inner Beast or Equilibrium . They also have the weakest self sustainability by a mile against bosses. Mitigation wise, DRK is hurting. So really... what does DRK offer? That's a bigger concern for me than Warrior being OP because like it or not, people care about "what jobs are better." These changes only hurt tank variety, which sucks for people who prefer one over the other.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The Hexa Fell Cleave is, but your post implied multiple Fell Cleaves wasn't possible when it was.

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It wasn't naturally doable. You had to use additionnal skills.

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Originally Posted by Baci

People complain about the stance swap cost cause you spend time building up your gouge just to loose it.

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The thing is, the gauge price on stance swapping doesn't automatically makes you weaker than other tanks, which is the most important part. The game is rebalanced, like it was when 3.0 launched.

And besides, with the reduced cast time on Berserk, it's probably better to do timed spike damage than burning your Gauge every 50 points, so you'll have time to rebuild your beast.

As for the shared CD, it's the tradeoff for two very powerful skills, forcing you to plan your stances for longer duration.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

We will need to see if group mitigation is even a thing in the new savage content.

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Considering that DRK and PLD can offer one-time mitigation higher than the basic tank stance, it could be very useful for skipping stance swap (Especially if the MT is a WAR) just before a tankbuster.

Ya know not all of us base our job choices off of spreadsheets. I liked liked how the Warrior sounded on paper.. and went with it. It was purely the concept I liked. Tank classes with damage that scaled off VIT + 2 hander + what is effectly lifesteal + the ability to do so on AoE pulls.

I'm not one to make alts, I have no interest in playing other jobs. What does that leave me with? A watered down tank with nothing interesting about it other than some damage ability in the middle of a rotation. Why do people care so damn much about Fellcleave damage... is warrior so shit that the only reason people now play it is "lolz big FC numbers yo"

What about the fact that I literally lost half a hotbar of abilities? Everyone I ask about FF14 says "play it for the story/lore" where the hell is the lore in waking up one day and not remembering how to use 5 abilities I used yesterday?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

The thing is, the gauge price on stance swapping doesn't automatically makes you weaker than other tanks, which is the most important part. The game is rebalanced, like it was when 3.0 launched.

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Well yes it does. I cant speak for DRK but look what PLD has as gauge spenders and look at WAR. PLD looses way less survivability and looses nearly 0 dps from halving his gauge.

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Originally Posted by Baci

Well yes it does.

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No, it doesn't. Because PLD gained not much survivability and absolutely 0 DPS by having the gauge in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Jhaerik

is warrior so shit that the only reason people now play it is "lolz big FC numbers yo"

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Well, if you look at numerous tank theory threads during 3.x, yeah pretty much :p

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Originally Posted by Jhaerik

What about the fact that I literally lost half a hotbar of abilities?

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Like everyone...and frankly, it would have been a pain in the ass having to manage 40 skills all the times.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering that DRK and PLD can offer one-time mitigation higher than the basic tank stance, it could be very useful for skipping stance swap (Especially if the MT is a WAR) just before a tankbuster.

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DRK only offers a 10% shield (based on the DRKs HP). Thats something like 8% more eHP on a WAR. Not that exciting. Most tanks in a raid scenario will forgo that for more dps (if the shield is really a dps loss as theory crafted).

PLD seems better on paper, but looks to me like overkill. You can do similar stuff with a simple tank swap.

We will need to wait for savage and see how that looks though. I am basing my opinion on old savage content at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Why does no one acknowledge how awesome it is to be able to build 100 instead of complaining than you can not have more than what IB requres after swap (Which was always th case) ? Now, you can naturally do 2 Fell Cleaves back to back. And also, you can build Gauge faster than before with Storm's Path.

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Because 10 stacks max isn't actually any better, and with crit stacks it's actually a slight nerf. Building up to 100 and doing 2 FC doesn't feel much different to building up to 5 stacks twice, but right now we get 10% crit for one FC and 5% for the other, while in HW it was 10% on every FC. Having to build up to 100 in the shortened time between Berserks is incredibly restrictive. Faster generation doesn't really matter when you can't fit FC outside Berserk anyway.

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Originally Posted by Achelon

In fact, what I really see people complaining about, is that WAR is not the best tank, god-tier anymore, and that is behind Paladin, who has been the worst tank for a whole expansion.
So it all comes to "I'm not the most broken tank and in fact I'm behind in something to other tanks, so I'm shit".

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Please don't make up these kinds of arguments when there have been pages of valid complaints. No one is saying we want to be overpowered, we're saying SB WAR feels much worse and has nothing to offer a group while PLD got huge buffs (despite the gap between tanks not being that huge) and even DRK got some utility.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Please don't make up these kinds of arguments when there have been pages of valid complaints. No one is saying we want to be overpowered, we're saying SB WAR feels much worse and has nothing to offer a group while PLD got huge buffs (despite the gap between tanks not being that huge) and even DRK got some utility.

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I'm not making those arguments to provoke a fight, yes, there has been several comments with good ideas and complaints, but a lot of 'em has been in the end just a "we are not the same tank that in HW and we are behind PLD now". There will always be a tank behind another. And sincerely, I don't see the WAR current state to be so bad that everyone is making a fuss and even saying that PLD will be the go-to now.

If we want to compare our current sitaution, let's do it against first week of Heavensward, not last month of the expansion, with everyone full 270, perfect stats and able to split in two anyone with our mighty axes.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

DRK only offers a 10% shield (based on the DRKs HP). Thats something like 8% more eHP on a WAR. Not that exciting. Most tanks in a raid scenario will forgo that for more dps (if the shield is really a dps loss as theory crafted).

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It's a little more complicated since shields are calculated separately from percentage reduction.

For example, let's take a 40kHP DRK and WAR. For any hit below 28k, the WAR will have higher remaining %HP with Vengeance+Shield than Vengeance+Defiance.
28000*0.7 = 19600
50000 (HP with Defiance) - 19600 = 30400 = 60% remaining HP

(28000*0.7)-4000 (TBN) = 15600
40000 (HP with Deliverance) - 15600 = 24400 = 61% remaining HP

Against Rampart, TBN gains the upper hand at around 25000 damage unmitigated.

For me, it's better for the DRK to lose one or two Dark Arts for TBN than forcing the WAR to go back to Defiance and losing most of its Beast.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Because 10 stacks max isn't actually any better, and with crit stacks it's actually a slight nerf.

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Yes it is, because you'll want the highest gauge available for when Berserk and Inner Release are up.

That would be a really low tank buster, not even worthy of any CD besides maybe Inner Beast ... actually you wouldn't even be in Defiance for that. Even Susano normal hits higher against lower HP values. In this example, the dps loss (if there really is any) wouldn't be worth the shield.

Edit: Clemency was already that strong in HW and no one used it. Now it is in competition with a dps ability ...

Edit 2: Don't get me wrong, TBN is a nice ability, but I don't belive it will play any role for people thinking about which tanks to take into savage. Maybe it will be nice for certain mechanics on lower hp player, where the 10% shield is stronger. We will see. Maybe savage will suprise me.

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Originally Posted by Achelon

In fact, what I really see people complaining about, is that WAR is not the best tank, god-tier anymore, and that is behind Paladin, who has been the worst tank for a whole expansion.
So it all comes to "I'm not the most broken tank and in fact I'm behind in something to other tanks, so I'm shit".

We have better damage than DRK, and we still have to see if PLD do have better damage than we do or not (at level 70 we can have Infuriate aproximately every 30s with the trait).
We have better mobility than Paladin but worse than DRK.
We have better AoE than PLD (my opinion on this tho) but worse than DRK (not in damage but in options).
We have worse mitigation than DRK and PLD.
We have better sustain than DRK or PLD (Storm's Path, Equilibrium and Inner Beast).

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I'm pretty sure pld has better substain than warrior, you know now we can clemency for easily 70k hp in 10sec and then get our mp back after like 15 sec. pretty sure war cant match that

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Edit: Clemency was already that strong in HW and no one used it. Now it is in competition with a dps ability ...

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It cost twice the amount of MP and could be interrupted in HW. Two things that were considered unredeemable flaws.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Edit 2: Don't get me wrong, TBN is a nice ability, but I don't believe it will play any role for people thinking about which tanks to take into savage.

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Well, considering that WAR almost no raid mitigation, we'll probably see more PLD and DRK as OT than before.

Warriors are fine you just not the best thing fucking ever anymore and your just slightly behind paladins, your grievance are not nearly anywhere close to DRKs, an no this isn't a grass is greener thing, we lost more skills then you to roles that weren't replace, we factually do less damage then you, have less hp and mitigation tools. I'm salty about bloodbath too i cross classed it, but for what you lost to what you gained its about neutral compared to DRKS.

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

we lost more skills then you to roles that weren't replace

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Uuuh what?

Foresight, Fracture, Bloodbath and Mercy Stroke without direct replacement
Scourge and Delirium without direct relacement

I would love to have Bloodbath and Mercy Stroke back as role skills xD

Having skills moved to cross role is a strange thing to complain about, since they at least still available.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Uuuh what?

Foresight, Fracture, Bloodbath and Mercy Stroke without direct replacement
Scourge and Delirium without direct relacement

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Lost the following, Shadowskin, Scourge, Low Blow, Reprisal, Dark Dance, Delirium. Foresight, Bloodbath, Half the potency on Unleash, Potency loss on dark passenger double the mana cost now (not even joking here its not even worth it to use anymore, Overall Damage nerf, Overall Threat nerf. (yes i know both is aimed at the role it self) Lost these respective DRK combos.

Delirium Combo and the int down status
BP+DA+AD (Conva)
DA+DD
FS+SS Tankbuster negation if you have vul (helped me alot in sophia when she busts no pun intended)
DA+DP because mana cost is insane
Any form of BP + anything spam (BP gives back terrible mana.

Things gained.
SS+Grit is a give you back mana equiv to one DA
TBN a bubble that cost blood 20% of you max hp shield
Quietus and aoe skill that is on GCD that builds no enmity
Bloodspiller decent nuke
And awareness (cross class you won't get crit for 20seconds)
You can now DA+SS if you mana cap out
Delirium now extends the duration of BP and BW 60 sec cd


I understand you don't play DRKS so its not for you to know but we lost far then you think, thats not a 1 for 1 list thats like a .04/1 list :/

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

Shadowskin

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No

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

Low Blow

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No

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

Reprisal

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Partially

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

Dark Dance

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Partially

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

Delirium

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Only the INT down, like MNK, STR debuff on PLD and damage debuff on WAR. And potencies were increased to compensate.

And for the overall damage nerf, I'm not really sure, since Bloodspiller can be used more frequently that what Scourge could, Darkside was buffed, and the longer Blood Weapon (And the shorter recast) means you can maintain fast attacks longer...and of course, you can DA Syphon Strike for the highest average potency on a basic combo of all the three tanks.

As for the mana cost on Dark Passenger, yes, it's higher, but not increased a much as the capacity to keep a decent amount of MP, mainly thanks to Delirium.

Is there much lvl max geared 70 WAR in this thread ? Me i'm not.. and currently having a blast learning all the aspects of the job and building the perfect set of skill/reflex ingame because i want to play it flawlessly. One thing 20 years of mmo playing teach me is that TheoryCrafting until the end of time will appear fine on paper but ingame those best case scenario rarely apply. One thing will appear shinier for a short amount of time then the next patch shuffle it all.

Im not english , google helped me alot btw :)

When a DRK complains about increased mana costs but doesn't realise they no longer drain mana like a leaky tap with Darkside anymore...

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

Warriors are fine you just not the best thing fucking ever anymore and your just slightly behind paladins, your grievance are not nearly anywhere close to DRKs, an no this isn't a grass is greener thing, we lost more skills then you to roles that weren't replace, we factually do less damage then you, have less hp and mitigation tools. I'm salty about bloodbath too i cross classed it, but for what you lost to what you gained its about neutral compared to DRKS.

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What is with this "us" and "we" crap? If I recall everyone can play all classes. If you like one of them more than the other enough to main it then fine but that does not make you some kind of faction. If Dark Knight sucks then you discuss on how to fix it, if War sucks then you discuss how to fix it and if Pally sucks then you discuss how to fix it. Stop this "you got nerfed! Hahaha that's what you get!" behavior, seriously. Whats wrong with wanting the class you like to be fun?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No

No

Partially

Partially

Only the INT down, like MNK, STR debuff on PLD and damage debuff on WAR. And potencies were increased to compensate.

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On reprisal Original DRK reprisal was 20seconds and had potency new reprisal last 5seconds and no potency on a 60second cd thats not the DRK reprisal it has the same name its not the same skill.

On Low blows our low blow again had potency and a chance to reset on Parrys the new low has no potency and does not do that again its named the same not our skill.

On shadow skin yea we lost it, it was moved to role skills we coulda had shadow skin and rampart but ill give that to you anyways.

Dark Dance was lost period its not ours 30% evasion loss on the skill with DA again its named the same but its not the same skill.

And yes we lost delirium THE OFFICAL PAGE says we lost delirium sure was have a skill that has the same name BUT AGAIN its not our skill it just has the same name.

Just because something has the same not does not mean its the same yoshi decided to pull some Orwellian nonsense DRKs in particular.

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Originally Posted by Azurein

What is with this "us" and "we" crap? If I recall everyone can play all classes. If you like one of them more than the other enough to main it then fine but that does not make you some kind of faction. If Dark Knight sucks then you discuss on how to fix it, if War sucks then you discuss how to fix it and if Pally sucks then you discuss how to fix it. Stop this "you got nerfed! Hahaha that's what you get!" behavior, seriously. Whats wrong with wanting the class you like to be fun?

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What are talking about, i don't think WARs in any respect are bad atm at no point did i say haha u guys got nerfed im saying your in a decent spot DRKs are far worse off YOUR drawing that inference.

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Originally Posted by Pavise

When a DRK complains about increased mana costs but doesn't realise they no longer drain mana like a leaky tap with Darkside anymore...

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Only on Dark Passenger because the nerf was unwarranted and it cost so much you'd just rather AD or use something else in its place is why, moral of the sorry why use A skill if B skill cost alot less with more enmity and potency.

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

What are talking about, i don't think WARs in any respect are bad atm at no point did i say haha u guys got nerfed im saying your in a decent spot DRKs are far worse off YOUR drawing that inference.

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You're right, it isn't what you said but its relative to the mentality of what I've been seeing in this part of the forum. It comes off as dismissive of the problems Warrior now faces because Dark Knight apparently has it worse. Whether or not Dark Knight has it worse should have no bearing on how Warrior is balanced, unfortunately Square seems to have this mentality hence the seesaw-like balancing we're getting.

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

On reprisal Original DRK reprisal was 20seconds and had potency new reprisal last 5seconds and no potency on a 60second cd thats not the DRK reprisal it has the same name its not the same skill.

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That's why I said partially. And removing the damage part is a good thing to stop trigger happy players from burning their utility skills right away for DPS and not having them ready for when it matters. And being able to pop it without the parry requirement is awesome.

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

On Low blows our low blow again had potency and a chance to reset on Parrys the new low has no potency and does not do that again its named the same not our skill.

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Again, see above, that's a good thing to remove the damage part. And without the damage part, the reset is not that important.

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

Dark Dance was lost period its not ours 30% evasion loss on the skill with DA again its named the same but its not the same skill.

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That's why I said partially. And frankly, we have so much things to Dark Arts now, the evasion boost wouldn't have been that useful.

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

And yes we lost delirium THE OFFICAL PAGE says we lost delirium sure was have a skill that has the same name BUT AGAIN its not our skill it just has the same name.

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I wasn't refering to the new Delirium but the damage boost on SoulEater combo making its basic version the same as Delirium combo.
So, you only lost the INT debuff...and the animation, which was indeed much cooler than SoulEater :p

Personally, I would like to have a third combo too, if it could end in Scourge but it would feel very copy-pasted from PLD.