Online store prices are outrageously high!

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Originally Posted by Eclair_Xysha

This is all really economics and the willingness to pay.

Plus these are all options for your characters. If you want premium for vanity reasons, you pay for it. You missed the sale? Oh well.

I don't want to be crude but these are really all vanity items. You don't need them. You just want them.

The willingness to pay concept doesn't care if you think it's expensive as long as there's a good amount of people out there are willing to pay for those prices advertised.

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Truth.
And I'm thrilled with all the purchases I have made. I love some of the vanity weapons and especially the mage ward outfit. I loved that for FuSoya

I swear, everytime they release something new, someone makes a post like this. What is this, the 100th one?

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

Game makes you pay for:

1. Monthly sub
2. Pay for the base game (up until the most recent free trial so most people playing now bought the base game)
3. Expansions (basic full game price every 2 years)
4. You need retainers if you want decent item storage and gil making.

Yet people still think it's fine for Square Enix to charge 100s of dollars for statues, and 40 bucks for the most recent mount.
Not to mention all the other merchandise and crap they flog that a certain portion of this audience will buy each and everytime no matter what it is.

Only way they will change is if no-one buys the mogstation stuff but that isn't going to stop anytime soon.

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1. oh dear, at best 50 cents a DAY to play something as much as you want. what a crime.
2. established precedent in mmos, check out World of Warcraft sometime if you dont believe me.
3. again, see 2 for precedent. prices of labour rise, so too development costs, yet the price is reasonable for what you receive. they bank on volume
4. you get 2 for FREE. so no, the game doesnt make you pay for more, thats optional. inventory management on the otherhand, is usually up to the player.

these are optional items. which part of OPTIONAL are you having trouble with? here, if it helps any:

optional
[ op-shuh-nl ]

adjective
left to one's choice; not required or mandatory: Formal dress is optional.
leaving something to choice.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

1. oh dear, at best 50 cents a DAY to play something as much as you want. what a crime.
2. established precedent in mmos, check out World of Warcraft sometime if you dont believe me.
3. again, see 2 for precedent. prices of labour rise, so too development costs, yet the price is reasonable for what you receive. they bank on volume
4. you get 2 for FREE. so no, the game doesnt make you pay for more, thats optional. inventory management on the otherhand, is usually up to the player.

these are optional items. which part of OPTIONAL are you having trouble with? here, if it helps any:

optional
[ op-shuh-nl ]

adjective
left to one's choice; not required or mandatory: Formal dress is optional.
leaving something to choice.

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1. I already paid and there is no marginal cost to the company to give me the outfit
2. i dont play those games i hate their cash shop too, also i dont even think wow has any armor that i care about in their store, so that would make ff14 much worse
3. I already paid and there is no marginal cost to the company to give me the outfit
4. lots of game let you unlock content by doing quests and activities. Some extremely bad games instead have a website where you pay money. Which one is worse in your opinion?

Jesus that escalated quickly.

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Originally Posted by Pretzelcoatl

1. I already paid and there is no marginal cost to the company to give me the outfit
2. i dont play those games i hate their cash shop too, also i dont even think wow has any armor that i care about in their store, so that would make ff14 much worse
3. I already paid and there is no marginal cost to the company to give me the outfit
4. lots of game let you unlock content by doing quests and activities. Some extremely bad games instead have a website where you pay money. Which one is worse in your opinion?

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Lets do lists too!

1) There is. How do you think those things come about? Out of thin air? It does cost them money and time to develop that, and they develop it for the explicit purpose to increase their revenue stream so they can do other things with that money. It is a literal investment. Take some sub fees to develop a glamour item that generates more money so they can apply it to more things (like the datacenters). I mean this is business 101. Take some of your profits and invest it into things to turn that money into a larger sum of money.
2) Cash shops are a thing. Whether you appreciate it or not is up to you, but theyre not going anywhere. This is like theme park merchandising. You purchase the ticket, ride the rides, but that novelty t shirt isnt included in the ticket cost. You buy that on the side, if you want it. And wearing that novelty t shirt doesnt heighten how fun a ride is (unless youre weird). I mean you would have a point if you paid to enter the theme park and then had to pay to ride each ride or buy something so you could ride those rides. But that isnt the case.
3) repeating your point doesnt make it any better
4) This is the great joke of all this complaining. If you go into mog station, broadly most of what is available on it are items, mounts, and glamours that were already or are already available in game. If you had a sub, all those event items you would have already cause they literally gave it to you by doing a quest or something. A large chunk of whats on the mog station are these previous event items that you coulda had for a sub fee. Dyes are all available in game so its just a convenience, Jump Potions and the like are purely a decision for if you want to play the damn MSQ or not and a handful of mounts that are semi interesting vs the oodles of mounts you can literally get in game by beating savage and expert fights. I mean the omega mount is cooler than almost everything on the mog station, and most glamours that are available in game tend to be better than stuff you can buy on mog station.



I honestly think that many of you who complain about mogstation dont actually sit down and think about what is offered to us. Im not saying that I want everythign to be on mogstation and that cash shops are plenty fine. But Im also not gonna humor the idea that SE is just gating all the good stuff behind their payment wall when the reality is the lions share of cool items are things you achieve in game, and outside the debate on jump potions, you everything on mog station is purely about cosmetics and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Pretzelcoatl

1. I already paid and there is no marginal cost to the company to give me the outfit
2. i dont play those games i hate their cash shop too, also i dont even think wow has any armor that i care about in their store, so that would make ff14 much worse
3. I already paid and there is no marginal cost to the company to give me the outfit
4. lots of game let you unlock content by doing quests and activities. Some extremely bad games instead have a website where you pay money. Which one is worse in your opinion?

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You paid to access the game.
Which you got.

You paid for access to the attainable items in
Which you got.

You didn't pay for extras added to the game and not included in the base subscription model.

You also dont have or need those things to play what you have paid for to access.

Premium items cost money. Period.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

1. oh dear, at best 50 cents a DAY to play something as much as you want. what a crime.
2. established precedent in mmos, check out World of Warcraft sometime if you dont believe me.
3. again, see 2 for precedent. prices of labour rise, so too development costs, yet the price is reasonable for what you receive. they bank on volume
4. you get 2 for FREE. so no, the game doesnt make you pay for more, thats optional. inventory management on the otherhand, is usually up to the player.

these are optional items. which part of OPTIONAL are you having trouble with? here, if it helps any:

optional
[ op-shuh-nl ]

adjective
left to one's choice; not required or mandatory: Formal dress is optional.
leaving something to choice.

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The retainer situation alone isn't something optional or vanity. It's literally influencing game design. Every serious crafter can attest to that. It is not optional. lol

On a related note, it's true that demand and availability dictate the price (duh) but I'm
a firm believer in educating people in hopes
it changes how they perceive something. You can't look at the state of the industry now and how it used to be and tell me that shit hasn't hit the fan so hard these last years that the fan stopped working a long time ago.

And then I see people not just going along with that incessant greed but actively defending it. Are you all shareholders? lol And the tired ol' excuse of 'it's a business!'. Because earning earning unfathomable amounts of money isn't enough, they must earn all the money in the universe (and monthly).

On an unrelated note, Starbucks' coffee is disgusting. There, I said it. lol

Let's be real here. The prices could double overnight and we'd still have plenty of people here defending it, because that defines a fanboy. Fair enough. To each their own. But don't expect other people to not rattle that cage of yours every time that happens.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Let's be real here. The prices could double overnight and we'd still have plenty of people here defending it, because that defines a fanboy. Fair enough. To each their own. But don't expect other people to not rattle that cage of yours every time that happens.

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Its rich that because people are not on board with your opinion/position and dont see the cash shop as big a deal as you do, that they are fanboys.

If prices doubled over night Id expect there to be a decent reason for it, otherwise I would stop shopping. There are price points on the mog station where I think it is to high for what it is. I wont throw down 30+ for a mount, as an example. I wait for sales more often than not when purchasing things, and some featuers I do purely out of luxury and not necessity. I do some crafting, and you know what my retainers are full of? Glamours and misc Quest crap. If you plan to go super hardcore with the crafting, having more retainers does make it easier for you, but it is not mandatory. It all depends on what you aim to do.

Beyond that, most of mog station is either from past events or items you acquire in game. Some of it is unique and even then I dont just buy it cause it's there. Most of my favorite glamours, emotes, and mounts were all things I got in game with nothing more than a sub and sometime. And that is, by and large, true of most people and done so by choice.



Beyond that, yeah Starbucks coffee is gross. They tend to burn it or its suger with a side of coffee. It's only good on the morning when you need a swift kick in the ass and dont have time to stop by a place that does coffee right.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

The retainer situation alone isn't something optional or vanity. It's literally influencing game design. Every serious crafter can attest to that. It is not optional. lol

On a related note, it's true that demand and availability dictate the price (duh) but I'm
a firm believer in educating people in hopes
it changes how they perceive something. You can't look at the state of the industry now and how it used to be and tell me that shit hasn't hit the fan so hard these last years that the fan stopped working a long time ago.

And then I see people not just going along with that incessant greed but actively defending it. Are you all shareholders? lol And the tired ol' excuse of 'it's a business!'. Because earning earning unfathomable amounts of money isn't enough, they must earn all the money in the universe (and monthly).

On an unrelated note, Starbucks' coffee is disgusting. There, I said it. lol

Let's be real here. The prices could double overnight and we'd still have plenty of people here defending it, because that defines a fanboy. Fair enough. To each their own. But don't expect other people to not rattle that cage of yours every time that happens.

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The game industry is in a bad state right now and I doubt anyone with their heads on straight would deny that. But just because the night is dark doesn't mean you get to ignore the lighthouse that's still blinking.

You have people in this thread equating FF14's cash shop to other cash shops. You have people who have their head in the sand and refuse to believe that the concept of creating a buisiness alongside a main one with 99% no impact on the latter can exist. This is what SE has done. I have over a decade's gameplay in all manners of disgusting f2ps and one way or another, their game is created in mind that the player will have no other recourse but to dip their hands into the cash shop to progress decently into the game. As of now, FF14 still isn't like this.

Also, being indifferent to optional items is not the same as defending it, neither is explaining to people what optional means and/or what vanity means. If SE doubles or triples their price tomorrow, my heart isn't gonna skip a beat nor am I gonna lose my head or even, as OP said right here the bolded part

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

1. Other games having worse cash shops doesn't not excuse this cash shop being greedy.
2. There has been exactly one sale on mounts/costumes/minions/barding since I've started playing which was about 16 months ago. Having sales this far apart is not helpful.
3. Telling me to not buy an item is not a helpful response. I want the item, but they're overcharging for it. I do a lot of fashion related stuff and not having access to this stuff is crippling.
4. If this topic comes up a lot, then that says more about the shop than the anyone talking about it.

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Yeah, crippling, if you can believe that. So, if SE were to do that, I'd just go on my way because it has no impact in the game. If you want to start a movement against retainers, I'm right here with ya because at least those things, even at the price they're at, do actually have an impact on the game of various size.

I honestly wish people were just more honest with themselves and just admit that they covet what they can't have. It's not the most gracious of our human natures and even the best of us isn't so infallible that it doesn't happen to them time to time. But let's stop witch hunting a business that has decided to make something on the side at the playerbase's request, something btw I never heard before since most mmos these days come strapped with a cash shop that nobody asked for.

EDIT: Also, I don't understand the hype about Starbucks coffee either. It still doesn't taste as good as it projects itself to be.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

And then I see people not just going along with that incessant greed but actively defending it. Are you all shareholders? lol And the tired ol' excuse of 'it's a business!'. Because earning earning unfathomable amounts of money isn't enough, they must earn all the money in the universe (and monthly).

On an unrelated note, Starbucks' coffee is disgusting. There, I said it. lol

Let's be real here. The prices could double overnight and we'd still have plenty of people here defending it, because that defines a fanboy. Fair enough. To each their own. But don't expect other people to not rattle that cage of yours every time that happens.

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So what proof do you have that they are raking in "unfathomable amounts of money"? And you may not like the concept but it IS a business. and businesses like to make profit, its that simple. So please, I would like to see proof of their incredible profit margins. Thank you in advance.

sorry to pop your bubble but the game I was a 'fangirl' for died before this game was even created and ir broke any faith or loyalty I had to companies in general. What I do respect is that its their market, they can charge whatever they want because I have no clue what it cost to develop the item and neither do you. but if I dont want to pay x amount for it, I wont, its that simple.

If it is something I have to have, then I will either wait for a sale or *gasp* save for it or give up something else to get it.

anyway, when you get the proof please be sure to post it since I am sure I am not the only one interested in it. Thank you ^^

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

But it isn't just me. I'm not the one who started the thread. Nor am I one of the many other people who have all pointed out how over-priced these items are. Plenty of people have pointed this out. So that's not true.

A small number of people being prepared to overpay for something doesn't make a market nor define how the majority think.

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But you aren't the majority. If you were the shop would have died. It's evident by just walking around the game that plenty of people pay for these things. Not a minority.

"you have a problem" meaning you are one of the few who sits there and complains that things cost to much while everyone else either buys the items or leaves them be.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

The reasons being used to try and defend the prices make no sense. People are saying things like 'I usually buy a Starbucks drink for $6 so paying $6 for an emote (or whatever) is fine. I'll just go without my Starbucks drink for a day.'

But Starbucks is literally the go-to example when people talk about how over-priced street shop drinks are. Defending over-paying for one thing because you usually over-pay for another thing doesn't make it okay.

And the argument that the drinks aren't over-priced as Starbucks is a successful company so the market is happy to pay their prices isn't valid either. There are 7.6 billion people on the planet. Only a tiny minority of those think paying exorbitant prices for a drink is okay. But enough do to keep the company in business. Doesn't stop Starbucks having their deserved reputation for over-priced drinks no matter what the 'market' says.

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Fine. lets detach this from starbucks since you fixated on it. Take the bus one day. There you saved 5-10 dollars in gas. Skip eating fast food for a day or two and eat something homemade. There you saved 8-15 dollars. Much of the population that plays these games pays for convenience and luxury daily. It is a budget and you could manage it if you paid attention to where your money was going.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

Also it's provable that the items are over-priced. Many, many games give you much more for less money or at least comparable items for less.

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Such.. as? Remember some of those games the character/job/server systems are much less robust. One character in FFXIV is enough to experience everything the game has to offer as far as content.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

The retainer situation alone isn't something optional or vanity. It's literally influencing game design. Every serious crafter can attest to that. It is not optional. lol

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It is a convenience. It can be worked around with large amounts of gil to buy mats (earnable in game and quite easy to do) and gathering specific mats as you need them (god forbid you play the game instead of just hoard stuff).

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

On a related note, it's true that demand and availability dictate the price (duh) but I'm
a firm believer in educating people in hopes
it changes how they perceive something. You can't look at the state of the industry now and how it used to be and tell me that shit hasn't hit the fan so hard these last years that the fan stopped working a long time ago.

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While there are several companies out there pushing the boundaries of what is a game and what is a slot machine. FFXIV right now is not there. Or even close. It has a set market with no RNG and a pretty consistent price point.
Pushing back against ANY change because other companies are doing worse things is senseless. I do remember games from the beginning and honestly the options and quality of games have progressed so much.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

And then I see people not just going along with that incessant greed but actively defending it. Are you all shareholders? lol And the tired ol' excuse of 'it's a business!'. Because earning earning unfathomable amounts of money isn't enough, they must earn all the money in the universe (and monthly).

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Just because someone points out that something is a reasonable pricepoint and explains how markets work.. doesn't mean they're shills. Has SE done some questionable things? Sure. Would I trust them to make the best decision for MY interests every time? Hell no. Are they currently running a absolute money sink of a game? Nope.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

On an unrelated note, Starbucks' coffee is disgusting. There, I said it. lol

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People who drink starbucks don't actually like coffee. They like starbucks drinks. Like drinking candy bars. They haven't run a business on black or simple cream and sugar drinks for a while.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Let's be real here. The prices could double overnight and we'd still have plenty of people here defending it, because that defines a fanboy. Fair enough. To each their own. But don't expect other people to not rattle that cage of yours every time that happens.

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Rattle the cage? Sure. Whine that you cannot afford something that is currently a reasonable and market accepted price? Nah, you're getting backlash.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

1. oh dear, at best 50 cents a DAY to play something as much as you want. what a crime.
2. established precedent in mmos, check out World of Warcraft sometime if you dont believe me.
3. again, see 2 for precedent. prices of labour rise, so too development costs, yet the price is reasonable for what you receive. they bank on volume
4. you get 2 for FREE. so no, the game doesnt make you pay for more, thats optional. inventory management on the otherhand, is usually up to the player.

these are optional items. which part of OPTIONAL are you having trouble with? here, if it helps any:

optional
[ op-shuh-nl ]

adjective
left to one's choice; not required or mandatory: Formal dress is optional.
leaving something to choice.

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1. Most MMOS/mulitplayer games these days are free-to-play and have cash shops, Why should a sub based one be allowed to have one if it's cash shop is just as bad? You are spending money to have ACCESS to a cash shop?

2. Wake up, this is 2020. It is not a precedent in MMOS anymore. WoW is 16 years old, this is basically 10. Every new game is B2P or F2P and monetisation that way, not sub based.

3. How do you know exact costs? You don't know work for them. All they have released publicly is the game is getting more popular (therefore more sub income) but the cash shop only keeps getting worse and worse?

4. 2 Retainers is not nearly enough compared to people with 7 - 8 that craft a lot. Alot of the high value items e.g. furniture sit on the market for months on end. If you're an endgame crafterMore retainers you have the more gil you can make it's pretty simple

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

1. Most MMOS/mulitplayer games these days are free-to-play and have cash shops, Why should a sub based one be allowed to have one if it's cash shop is just as bad? You are spending money to have ACCESS to a cash shop?

2. Wake up, this is 2020. It is not a precedent in MMOS anymore. WoW is 16 years old, this is basically 10. Every new game is B2P or F2P and monetisation that way, not sub based.

3. How do you know exact costs? You don't know work for them. All they have released publicly is the game is getting more popular (therefore more sub income) but the cash shop only keeps getting worse and worse?

4. 2 Retainers is not nearly enough compared to people with 7 - 8 that craft a lot. Alot of the high value items e.g. furniture sit on the market for months on end. If you're an endgame crafterMore retainers you have the more gil you can make it's pretty simple

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lol, okay then,

1. most games these days, especially f2p, use their cash shop to generate profit. plain and simple. most of their offerings come from rng loot boxes. there is a MINISCULE chance to get what you actually want from these boxes so you are FORCED to buy more and more. These items are generally accepted to be REQUIRED to play or get ahead in the game. (required means you HAVE to buy them, as in non optional). FF xiv charges a sub, and sell OPTIONAL (not required to play) items. you might as well ask why professional sports teams can sell merch, they are sports teams, not seamstresses. your subscription gets you access yes, but if you dont subscribe to the game, why would you buy anything there?

2. lol, starting to get a little touchy I see. thats fine, you have every right to be given your viewpoint.

3. I dont, point is, NEITHER DO YOU. I dont think sub income is exactly the cash cow you assume it is. by the way, dont trot out the 20 million blather, we are talking ACTIVELY paying subs

4. I know all about retainers. I also know mine hold a lot of old garbage and materials I am too much of a packrat to do without or throw out. however, I certainly do not believe for a second that my world as an end game crafter would be crippled if I had less retainers. I would just have to manage things better.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

snip

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Originally Posted by linayar

Comparable for what purpose? Items sold in the FFXIV Online Store are made for your FFXIV characters. Other items that cannot be used by your FFXIV characters because they are made for other games are irrelevant regardless of what they cost.

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It's not subjective, it's objective. People know what DLC costs and comparable items are not usually this expensive. Companies make their own products and people compare similar items from different companies. According to your logic, no one can ever compare similar phones, cars, chocolate, clothes or anything else made by different companies because they aren't precisely identical.

None of the thousands of YouTube videos comparing mobile phones (or anything else) with similar specs. are valid according to you. None of the industry magazines comparing different brands with similar builds are valid according to you. No one in the history of the planet has ever accurately compared anything according to you because the things they were comparing weren't precisely identical, therefore comparisons aren't allowed.

This is ridiculous and wouldn't be accepted in any other walk of life. If you think otherwise, go and post on 100 YouTube videos of someone comparing phones or whatever that comparing things isn't allowed because the products aren't branded the same and aren't identical and the production costs aren't mentioned etc... and see what reactions you get.

Anything that sells in the Mog Station has comparable DLC in many other games. The concepts are well know (clothing, emotes, mounts etc.) People are entitled to compare like for like and the ones here are more than you'd expect to pay. Which is why so many people are speaking out about this.

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Originally Posted by Violet_Galaxy

Goodness gracious, way to miss my entire point. Nobody needs Mogstation items to play this game. SE even made that point very clear on their banner once you hit the Mogstation page that the items are OPTIONAL ITEMS. If you're arguing just to argue, you're doing a very poor job at it.

I made no insults. The fact you think I did is another you problem. Not me.

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Nobody missed your point. You didn't make any valid points. The thing you said was specifically responded to and rejected. The notion that there is a difference between things you need and don't need isn't valid. The concept of being ripped off applies equally to both. Didn't you read where I discussed that? You certainly did make insults. If you can't remember what you wrote and (as illustrated above) you can't remember what I wrote, then it's fairly clear who has the problem and who is arguing for the sake of it.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

But you aren't the majority. If you were the shop would have died. It's evident by just walking around the game that plenty of people pay for these things... *snip*

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As has already been said, you don't need a majority to keep an online shop going. They don't sell a physical product or a service. It's just code – there's an infinite supply. You can keep a site like that open with a tiny minority especially when you have income from so many other sources.

And many of those who do use the site, openly admit it's over-priced, but make excuses for buying anyway.

I don't have a problem nor am I complaining. I'm doing what you're supposed to do here which is post in FFXIV related threads that interest you. You're the one with the problem complaining about people doing that.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Fine. lets detach this from starbucks since you fixated on it. Take the bus one day. There you saved 5-10 dollars in gas. Skip eating fast food for a day or two and eat something homemade. There you saved 8-15 dollars. Much of the population that plays these games pays for convenience and luxury daily. It is a budget and you could manage it if you paid attention to where your money was going.

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What has any of that got to do with anything? Someone else brought up that something in the Mog Station costs the same as a Starbucks drink and I pointed out that Starbucks drinks are literally a mainstream example of something that is over-priced. I turned their own point against them by highlighting how 'the market' can keep a company in business but that company can still have a reputation for being over-priced. Just like the Mog Station.

As for budgeting, that makes even less sense. I have a well paid job and could afford now to buy everything in the Mog Station. I don't like being ripped off so I won't buy anything.

Not liking being ripped off /= being poor necessarily.

To Krotoan, Violet_Galaxy, Kes13a and any others, you're just posting the same things over and over which is just necessitating the same replies. Your arguments have been responded to and rejected.

The market keeping a site in business does not mean what the site sells isn't over-priced. The example of Starbucks highlights a company that has a reputation for over-priced goods yet stays in business.

It's not valid to say people can't compare FFXIV DLC with DLC from any other site. Humans compare things all the time from different brands and models.

You don't need a majority to keep a site like the Mog Station open. It sells DLC. Not products or services. It only needs a small number of sales to keep it open, especially when the company that owns it has multiple revenue sources.

If you don't like the fact people are going to highlight the high prices of the Mog Station, I suggest just staying out of this thread. That's where those people are most likely to be.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

As has already been said, you don't need a majority to keep an online shop going. They don't sell a physical product or a service. It's just code – there's an infinite supply. You can keep a site like that open with a tiny minority especially when you have income from so many other sources.

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However they employ modelers, concept artists, coders and QA. Believe me that in a business like that anyone who is dead weight is quickly snipped. If the store wasn't bringing in at least those peoples salaries, let alone a profit enough to do things like upgrading servers, they would have closed down long ago.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

And many of those who do use the site, openly admit it's over-priced, but make excuses for buying anyway.

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Sounds like it's not over priced then, cause they're still willing to buy things.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

I don't have a problem nor am I complaining. I'm doing what you're supposed to do here which is post in FFXIV related threads that interest you. You're the one with the problem complaining about people doing that.

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I'm responding to the OP who was whining about how something is too costly and that it should be on sale more often. You came in and tried to argue that they ARE too expensive. Do you remember that part? Sure you're posting in the thread and contributing and I wouldn't dream of telling you to stop giving your opinion.. but I will give mine back.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

What has any of that got to do with anything? Someone else brought up that something in the Mog Station costs the same as a Starbucks drink and I pointed out that Starbucks drinks are literally a mainstream example of something that is over-priced. I turned their own point against them by highlighting how 'the market' can keep a company in business but that company can still have a reputation for being over-priced. Just like the Mog Station.

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My point being that the prices are similar to everyday conveniences and things you pay for. Experiences that last minutes. If something everyone says is "overpriced" still sells and turns a satisfactory profit for the company, that means the market supports it. That's how economics work.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

As for budgeting, that makes even less sense. I have a well paid job and could afford now to buy everything in the Mog Station. I don't like being ripped off so I won't buy anything.


Not liking being ripped off /= being poor necessarily.

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Good for you. Several thousand people have average jobs and still see the value in the items for sale and buy them.
Saying you're being ripped off when the market clearly supports the pricing and hollering that everyone else should think the same hints that maybe you need some perspective on the actual value of items.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

To Krotoan, Violet_Galaxy, Kes13a and any others, you're just posting the same things over and over which is just necessitating the same replies. Your arguments have been responded to and rejected.

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By you. Great. This doesn't mean they're wrong.. or right really.. just that you cannot accept them.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

It's not valid to say people can't compare FFXIV DLC with DLC from any other site. Humans compare things all the time from different brands and models.

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And comparing very different things with a few similarities is a bad comparison.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

You don't need a majority to keep a site like the Mog Station open. It sells DLC. Not products or services. It only needs a small number of sales to keep it open, especially when the company that owns it has multiple revenue sources.

If you don't like the fact people are going to highlight the high prices of the Mog Station, I suggest just staying out of this thread. That's where those people are most likely to be.

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I've already pointed out that if the mogstation represents it's own department with it's own staff that need to be paid. If they were making little to no sales the idea would have been scrapped.
I don't have an aversion to hearing complaints about the price, I'm here, like you, to discuss my POV on how they're wrong. I also like to point out to people that they're being very silly about reasonable prices by providing perspective on what they pay every day/week/month for far less value.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

On you last point you said yourself that -nearly- every publisher does that. So some are pushing the envelope then. That's exactly what I said. Give it another few years and it will become the norm because you're apparently not allowed to speak out against greed.

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We have been waiting five years for this doom and gloom scenario of SE arbitrarily increasing Mogstation prices. It still hasn't happened yet. Every single item has kept a standardized pricing model unless they offered something extra. Speaking more broadly on the industry itself, people have pushed back. Look at Star Wars:Battlefront 2 and lootboxes in general. EA tried to push that envelop and it cross enough of a line people revolted. They backpedaled hard.

Typically, loot boxes and P2W advantages are what garner people's disdain, which FFXIV partakes in neither. What frustrates people isn't complaining that SE is greedy but that literally every single time a new Mogstation item releases, we go through this same song and dance. After five years, it gets a little old.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Publishers also love to say that gaming has gone up in cost, but I'd argue that I, first off, never asked them to make everything photo realistic, nor to spend two thirds of the budget for PR and trailers to generate hype. (That's some real contempt for your audience there, if you think that dangling a few shiny keys in front of them will distract them long enough so they'll forget that the trailer actually didn't contain any gameplay - and preorder. SE certainly is no stranger to that)

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The operative word being "I". While you may not care for hyper realistic graphics, a lot of people do. Hell, people criticism FFXIV for not having enough voice acting. The whole shift towards more expensive industry standards was due to demand. A large enough demographic want extreme graphical fidelity, voice acting and etc. Dangling a shiny trailer and building hype for a product that may not live up to said up isn't unique to the gaming industry though. They all do it.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

And another point in conjunction with my last statement: we're going more and more digital. There are less manufacturing costs. When was the last time as a PC player you even got a disk with your purchase? Weird that publishers never mention that side, too.

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We really can't say if they profit off lessening manufacturing costs or if its been accounted for elsewhere. To give an idea though, SE spent $400M on 1.0; $600M on FFXV. For perspective sake, FFX had a development cost of $50M. This right here is precisely why micro-transaction and DLC exist. They literally couldn't sustain the current development costs without additional revenue from somewhere. On a sidenote, I never knew their budget was apparently that high. What a spectacular failure that was. No wonder SE was nearly bankrupted back then...

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

And how do you explain indie games like Hollow Knight or Spiritfarer (both damn good btw)?

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A different market? Indie games rarely make anywhere close to what AAA do. Of course, that speaks nothing to their quality but they typically get more of a niche following.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

One could even say this over-reliance on generating ludicrous amounts of money is they reason why this game gets more and more boring. Broadest common denominator. So that Timmy-ten-thumb and Melissa-mindless can sub too. I'm not saying there is no place for them but if you bring pretty much down everything aside from raids to keep them subbed I think there is a problem. The last point is an exaggeration, granted, but I don't think I'm too far off.

I think it boils down to seeing the bigger picture here. No action happens in a vacuum.
I hope I was able to make my points clear, even if it was a bit rambly. ^^

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Unfortunately, I can't entire disagree. In fact, a big criticism I have towards Shadowbringers is how dumbed down a lot of aspects feel because the dev team focused on accessibility to the point of extreme. But the reality is, they are a business. Profit will always drive them. Granted, we really can't fault SE entirely here. Some of these decisions (general job homogenization, poor healer design and etc. ) are strictly a design choice. Not a financial one.

I do agree, everything happens in a vacuum. Likewise, I also think the game industry as a whole has pushed things too far. I just don't feel FFXIV has in that regard. Even if I do have my criticisms of the Mogstation.

Whats funny about this whole debate/thread/whatnots regarding the pricing. The pricing was set when the players starting spouting off how much they would pay for fantasia when optional items only consisted of name changes and server changes. People were shouting out garbage prices like 10, 20, 30 bucks. for a pot of fantasia to be sold. The precedent was set. and know we got a glamour shop essentially. We also got a way to get previous event items if we missed out on an event for the most part, exception is the super popular collab events like Yokai, Garo, and the FFXV crossover.

I am just glad its not a loot box based cash shop and the item doesn't affect the gameplay itself like some games cash shops do. I also get its a sub based game, however, as I pointed out, non of the items impact your character stat or gameplay wise nor does it add any additional content like missions, quests, additional storyline. The item shop is purely fluff with the exception of the story and level skip pots which those will not go away because I imagine they make quite a bit off those. This doesn't mean I agree with the price but at least I know what I am getting exactly.

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Originally Posted by JTF-Taru

It's not subjective, it's objective. People know what DLC costs and comparable items are not usually this expensive. Companies make their own products and people compare similar items from different companies. According to your logic, no one can ever compare similar phones, cars, chocolate, clothes or anything else made by different companies because they aren't precisely identical.

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No, by my logic, the comparison is only valid if you're going to quit the game over this, otherwise it's useless.

But if you're comparing optional items on the store over which game to play, then your problem is not really with the store items, but with the game itself.

But if you're going to continue playing the game, then the comparison is irrelevant. What are you going to do? Play another game just so you can buy their cheaper store items while still also playing FFXIV but not buy its store items? I mean, you can do that, but that doesn't affect the store items in FFXIV.

well, to be objective, which is to supply facts as opposed to just opinion...

The WoW cash shop, which is another subscription based game with a cash shop for OPTIONAL items

Mounts range from 32 to 38 CAD (doesnt matter how old there are the price has never changed)

appearance change is 19 CAD
race change is 32 CAD
pets/minions are 12.50 CAD

SO, honestly, I fail to see where they are incredibly out of line for pricing on comparable items (in some cases like fantasia, a lot better). So, until you demonstrate some kind of proof for your position that they are making cash hand over fist, I will have to continue to view this as little more than a bit of the player base that would be likely to complain -regardless- of pricing simply because it isnt free.

The thing is, we can be individually unhappy with the prices but it doesn't matter so long as a large number of other people are willing to pay them.

If enough other people buy the outfits at the current price, there is no incentive for them to lower prices to appeal to you (or me) specifically.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

well, to be objective, which is to supply facts as opposed to just opinion...

The WoW cash shop, which is another subscription based game with a cash shop for OPTIONAL items

Mounts range from 32 to 38 CAD (doesnt matter how old there are the price has never changed)

appearance change is 19 CAD
race change is 32 CAD
pets/minions are 12.50 CAD

SO, honestly, I fail to see where they are incredibly out of line for pricing on comparable items (in some cases like fantasia, a lot better). So, until you demonstrate some kind of proof for your position that they are making cash hand over fist, I will have to continue to view this as little more than a bit of the player base that would be likely to complain -regardless- of pricing simply because it isnt free.

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You can buy everything in the WoW cash shop with ingame gold.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

You can buy everything in the WoW cash shop with ingame gold.

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Since when?

Edit:
So I JUST checked WoW. Nothing is purchasable with in-game gold. The purchase page for mounts, pets, everything looks like this-
https://i.imgur.com/46SuV2c.jpg

You can buy a game-time token for cash and sell it for gold through the special Auction House menu made just for those transactions.
Some of the pets are tradeable (i.e. you can resell them to another player for gold, after you purchase them for cash) but they are the minority and they still need to be initially purchased from the store. With real money.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

Since when?

Edit:
So I JUST checked WoW. Nothing is purchasable with in-game gold. The purchase page for mounts, pets, everything looks like this-
https://i.imgur.com/46SuV2c.jpg

You can buy a game-time token for cash and sell it for gold through the special Auction House menu made just for those transactions.
Some of the pets are tradeable (i.e. you can resell them to another player for gold, after you purchase them for cash) but they are the minority and they still need to be initially purchased from the store. With real money.

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WoW tokens can be redemeed directly into $15 usd of Blizzard Balance. You just purchase one in the Auction House and right click it to do so.

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You can purchase a WoW Token from the Shop for real money and sell it on the Auction House for gold, or you can purchase a Token from the Auction House and redeem it for 30-days of Game Time or $15 of Blizzard Balance.

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Not only can you buy everything in the WoW Cash shop: You can buy basically any other game in the battlenet store as well this way. Many players purchase expansions and other titles this way.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

WoW tokens can be redemeed directly into $15 usd of Blizzard Balance. You just purchase one in the Auction House and right click it to do so.


Not only can you buy everything in the WoW Cash shop: You can buy basically any other game in the battlenet store as well this way. Many players purchase expansions and other titles this way.

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But the token must still initially be purchased for real money. The person who ends up with the item may pay with gold but Blizzard still gets the exact same amount of real money from the transaction, making them no less "greedy" than FFXIV's shop.

Edit:
In fact, upon reviewing the WoW store again, it might actually be worse, given that you are stuck with purchasing one static amount; an amount that in their entire store, only evenly matches up with two things (a month of game or an appearance change.) Nothing else is $15, which makes it difficult to make one-time purchases- you are always going to have to buy more Blizzard balance than you actually need. Forcing you to purchase their currency at certain set amounts that don't easily line up with the item prices is a method that several games use as an under-handed means to get you to spend more.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

But the token must still initially be purchased for real money. The person who ends up with the item may pay with gold but Blizzard still gets the exact same amount of real money from the transaction, making them no less "greedy" than FFXIV's shop.

Edit:
In fact, upon reviewing the WoW store again, it might actually be worse, given that you are stuck with purchasing one static amount; an amount that in their entire store, only evenly matches up with two things (a month of game or an appearance change.) Nothing else is $15, which makes it difficult to make one-time purchases- you are always going to have to buy more Blizzard balance than you actually need. Forcing you to purchase their currency at certain set amounts that don't easily line up with the item prices is a method that several games use as an under-handed means to get you to spend more.

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The WoW system found a way to accommodate both those willing and unwilling to spend real money, with the added bonus of reducing third-party RMT activity in the process. Greed or no, it's a clever system that almost certainly makes them more money in the long-run, all the while placating players like the OP. If someone wants to spend money, they can. Otherwise, there's an alternative route to the same content for people willing to do a little extra grinding, and blizzard still gets their take. They can even play the game completely on someone else's dime. It's a much more accommodating system, and is a more reasonable format for a subscription based MMO imo.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

The WoW system found a way to accommodate both those willing and unwilling to spend real money, with the added bonus of reducing third-party RMT activity in the process. Greed or no, it's a clever system that almost certainly makes them more money in the long-run, all the while placating players like the OP. If someone wants to spend money, they can. Otherwise, there's an alternative route to the same content for people willing to do a little extra grinding, and blizzard still gets their take. They can even play the game completely on someone else's dime. It's a much more accommodating system, and is a more reasonable format for a subscription based MMO imo.

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Its also a way to screw the playerbase over. WoW tokens are 20.00 each. Which means a person wanting in game gold is paying real money AND Blizzard is getting and extra 5.00 per sale over a regular sub price.

The value of the token in gold fluctuates depending on the market at that time.

It isn't "free". Another player is making up the difference for that "free" item. Blizzard became the gold seller themselves. It wasn't to help the player, it was to enrich themselves.

...just like every game.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

The WoW system found a way to accommodate both those willing and unwilling to spend real money, with the added bonus of reducing third-party RMT activity in the process. Greed or no, it's a clever system that almost certainly makes them more money in the long-run, all the while placating players like the OP. If someone wants to spend money, they can. Otherwise, there's an alternative route to the same content for people willing to do a little extra grinding, and blizzard still gets their take. They can even play the game completely on someone else's dime. It's a much more accommodating system, and is a more reasonable format for a subscription based MMO imo.

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Doesn't that entire system crash if lets say noone buys the token? People still have to spend money for it to work perfectly, which if you go by this playerbase is still a no go.

Blah-Blah SE runs a business
Blah-Blah Dont like it dont buy it.
Blah-Blah Its a luxury you dont need
Blah-Blah-Blah Have you seen other cash shop practices they are way worse

Hm maybe it’s for funding FF16?

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Blah-Blah SE runs a business
Blah-Blah Dont like it dont buy it.
Blah-Blah Its a luxury you dont need
Blah-Blah-Blah Have you seen other cash shop practices they are way worse

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You mock but none of those are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

You mock but none of those are wrong.

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I realize now that my sarcasm is unclear and badly made.
All of these are talking points I agree with, and have been said in previous threads about the Cash SHop

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I realize now that my sarcasm is unclear and badly made.
All of these are talking points I agree with, and have been said in previous threads about the Cash SHop

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Ah, my bad then. I missundetstood T.T

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

Ah, my bad then. I missundetstood T.T

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Bah your fine, Im the one who made a bad post

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Its also a way to screw the playerbase over. WoW tokens are 20.00 each. Which means a person wanting in game gold is paying real money AND Blizzard is getting and extra 5.00 per sale over a regular sub price.

The value of the token in gold fluctuates depending on the market at that time.

It isn't "free". Another player is making up the difference for that "free" item. Blizzard became the gold seller themselves. It wasn't to help the player, it was to enrich themselves.

...just like every game.

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I acknowledged most of that in my post. It's nice that you're putting the word "Free" in quotes despite the fact that it hasn't appeared a single time in any of my posts, nor have I ever implied anything was free. At no point does WoW try to mislead you or compel you into buying gold. Players who do so choose to do so fully aware of the conversion rate, and all three parties involved benefit in some way.

Saying that it 'screws the playerbase over' is extremely silly, particularly in a thread comparing it to some of SEs practices. Screwing the player base would be something like... bloating your shallow crafting system with hundreds of unnecessary reagents, only to turn around and offer expanded bank storage for an additional monthly fee in an already subscription-based game. : )

But hey, no contortion is too hard when we're trying to say "WoW Bad FF Good". Honk honk.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

Doesn't that entire system crash if lets say noone buys the token? People still have to spend money for it to work perfectly, which if you go by this playerbase is still a no go.

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Totally possible, but hasn't happened up to this point (unless SL bombs like BFA xD). There's an enormous market for RMT in MMOs; Many people tend to severely underestimate just how many people are willing to buy Gil/gold. FFXIV wouldn't be filled with thousands of bots if people weren't buying.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

The WoW system found a way to accommodate both those willing and unwilling to spend real money, with the added bonus of reducing third-party RMT activity in the process. Greed or no, it's a clever system that almost certainly makes them more money in the long-run, all the while placating players like the OP. If someone wants to spend money, they can. Otherwise, there's an alternative route to the same content for people willing to do a little extra grinding, and blizzard still gets their take. They can even play the game completely on someone else's dime. It's a much more accommodating system, and is a more reasonable format for a subscription based MMO imo.

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Is that why there is more gil sink in WoW than in FFXIV, so that people would be incentivized to buy tokens? If so, I hope even more that SE never copy this token idea.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I acknowledged most of that in my post. It's nice that you're putting the word "Free" in quotes despite the fact that it hasn't appeared a single time in any of my posts, nor have I ever implied anything was free. At no point does WoW try to mislead you or compel you into buying gold. Players who do so choose to do so fully aware of the conversion rate, and all three parties involved benefit in some way.

Saying that it 'screws the playerbase over' is extremely silly, particularly in a thread comparing it to some of SEs practices. Screwing the player base would be something like... bloating your shallow crafting system with hundreds of unnecessary reagents, only to turn around and offer expanded bank storage for an additional monthly fee in an already subscription-based game. : )

But hey, no contortion is too hard when we're trying to say "WoW Bad FF Good". Honk honk.







Totally possible, but hasn't happened up to this point (unless SL bombs like BFA xD). There's an enormous market for RMT in MMOs; Many people tend to severely underestimate just how many people are willing to buy Gil/gold. FFXIV wouldn't be filled with thousands of bots if people weren't buying.

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Its nice that you are attempting to backpeddle mainly because you see that I am well aware of how it works in wow...because I spent 10 plus years there and utilized the system you were praising...and comparing to MS that essentially does a similar thing.

How is the playerbase screwed over? The alternating value of the gold...and like EVERY mmo...money makes the world work. I can sell a coin for 90,000 gold one day and a day later, its only woth 60,000 to 70,000...yet, Blizzard is still getting 20 for devalued in game currency.

Hence...le screw.

It was never about wow bad, ff good. You attempted to compare models of both cash shops (while purposely ommiting what wow does with their token and how the system works) and fell flat.

Simple really.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Totally possible, but hasn't happened up to this point (unless SL bombs like BFA xD). There's an enormous market for RMT in MMOs; Many people tend to severely underestimate just how many people are willing to buy Gil/gold. FFXIV wouldn't be filled with thousands of bots if people weren't buying.

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xD And yeah you're right about that. Greed is why RMT will never go away in any form so blargh. Tho now I want to ask you.... do you think SL will bomb like BFA? I watched a video and the streamer in question was pissed about the number of changes that are coming to SL. How do you feel about it? :o

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

Doesn't that entire system crash if lets say noone buys the token? People still have to spend money for it to work perfectly, which if you go by this playerbase is still a no go.

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it is my personal theory that not all the tokens sell to players.

your token is GUARANTEED to sell within 2-12 hours. How can that ever be guaranteed given staggered sub times? so given how Blizz hates anyone to make money off their product it only makes sense that they got into this as a means to cut out a majority of the gold sellers since now you can essentially buy gold legally from them from their store. The only thing that bothers me about it is they mask it under "oh this can help other players who have a lot of in game gold" instead of just being honest and saying "this is a way to combat gold sellers... you're welcome"

as for the player base, I think it helps in SOME ways. you can "buy" gold/gil without the risk of getting banned, a large portion of the base would obviously go that route instead of the riskier potential ban route. it does mean that these companies have to make money other ways which are even riskier for the player such as levelling services.

Anyway, a bit off topic I guess, as DBriggs304 stated, this was all to cut out others making cash off their game.