Stop telling healers to go play dps

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Originally Posted by Knoahl

They did not simplify dps, they actually gave tanks more ways to dps, and DPS like BLM got more ways to keep DPSing... more buttons to DPS, Same with RDM.

What are you even saying lol. If anything having the DoT's as potent as they were and the accuracy checkes encouraged healers to not dps and put DoTs up then focus on healing as spells would miss and be a waste of mana. But these days we are encouraged to put as many GCD's as possible into the boss with large potency single target spells, thus contradicting what you are saying tbh.

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More buttons doesn't mean more complicated. They simplified rotations because now it's easier to land OGCDs, so you can use them whenever it suits you instead of a fixed rotation that can be wasted due misuse of OGCDs, and you just said it; BLM will have more ways to DPS, so it will be easier to them to keep the damage up. No contradictions here.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

There are complaints about some of the DPS role jobs as well, with MCH being the biggest DPS job up for discussion and complaints due to how their upcoming changes would be severely hampered by potential latency (among other complaints).
The difference being that they didn't have parts of their identities burned and skills and abilities stolen away for the sake of "balancing" the role (and, to be honest, probably moreso for the sake of highlighting the Dancer).

I also don't like this idea that, if a different role or job doesn't have a problem, others can't either, and/or they shouldn't be brought up. If you're "tired of seeing" something, use that selective sight, that hasn't seen any of the discussion regarding the other Jobs, and simply "not see" these threads that you don't want to see. In the meantime, we have a bone to pick, and we're gonna pick it.

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These complains exists before every single expansion because people try to dig too deep and base their opinions on datamining/insufficient data. It's always the exact same thing. Nobody knows the statweights yet, and doesn't know the new potency formula, so all these opinions are quite invalid till we get our hands on the expansion.

And I'm still thinking the same way; healers needed some rework. Maybe we will get harder bosses with constant damage so we will need constant healing, who knows.

I'd just chill until the expansion instead of spamming the forums with complains.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

I'd just chill until the expansion instead of spamming the forums with complains.

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Sadly there is not enough to do in game, content has been squashed, dry, boring. Let people theorycraft and tell their opinion about the gamestyle they're approaching with healers. We already had this situation with Whitemage the whole time (now that Aero III gets removed as well). But now all Healers will DPS the same way while playing with their little feature (Fairy, Cards).

Its only understandable that people worry, I worry actually about low level content and roulettes. So far doing low level roulettes as Scholar (helping FC and friends) is most enjoyable as scholar, because your fairy does most of the healing, while you can aoe spread dots and get done with those limiting dungeons.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Sadly there is not enough to do in game, content has been squashed, dry, boring. Let people theorycraft and tell their opinion about the gamestyle they're approaching with healers. We already had this situation with Whitemage the whole time (now that Aero III gets removed as well). But now all Healers will DPS the same way while playing with their little feature (Fairy, Cards).

Its only understandable that people worry, I worry actually about low level content and roulettes. So far doing low level roulettes as Scholar (helping FC and friends) is most enjoyable as scholar, because your fairy does most of the healing, while you can aoe spread dots and get done with those limiting dungeons.

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Not enough to do?
DO you have all achievements, titles, mounts, minions, jobs leveled ?

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

You'll be able to do DPS as healer in Shadowbringers. The difference is that it will be way easier this time.

Some healers, even top ones, are the main cause of wipes in raid content because they don't know how to DPS and heal at the same time, so I guess SE had to change healers a bit so they can keep doing DPS but be able to heal at the same time.

I'm not a healer and I'm really happy of the changes. I was really TIRED of healers not healing, and maybe you were having fun, but I wasn't.

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First and foremost, healers rotation was already brain dead, specially if you played AST and WHM. And SCH wasn't really that much harder, Broil for spam, Ruin 2 to weave, 2 DoTs you have to keep track of, Bane to spread DoTs, Energy Drain weaved to recover MP and dump aetherflow and an AoE Dot. You really think that this change is really going to make bad healers, specially those that played AST and WHM, suddenly not screw up and let the tank die just because they have 1 less DoT? You really think they won't still do the same they were doing, and DPS until it is too late? We were able to heal at the same time, we used our OGCD skill to do so, buffed shields and regen, and weave some of these skill to maximaze DPS while keeping everyone safe. Hell we aren't even that bothered by the fact that so many DPS skills are gone, we are complaining that they are gone and they haven't given us anything fun or interesting to do in our downtime. AST card system, regardless of how good it is now, is simpler and require less though or RNG manipulation, SCH rotation is gone, and WHM hasn't receive anything to crazy either, but atleast they have the new lily system to work towards. Even worse, none of the complains of the classes have been adressed. WHM wanted utility, they received none. SCH wanted Selene to become useful, but SE decide just to erase while gutting us, and AST wanted some adjustment to the card balance to reduce the "fishing for Spread Balance", but instead now ALL card are balance, and you fish for seals. Hell, I have seen many AST being ok with nerfs, but this decision has create quite a divissive response, and many are unsure. So we not only didn't receive any of this, we were gutted and left with a more boring down time. And even if ShB somehow makes our downtime close to 0% of the fights, there still the issue of 6 year of content, ARR, HW, SB, solo and MSQ content, were we will have to DPS no matter what, because it is impossible for SE to balance the damage of all instances to ShB level.

Also this is rich. Of course you are ok with healers' gameplay being more boring and simple, it doesn't affect you. As long as they heal you and you have your fun is ok, uh? Also, bullshit, if a top healer doesn't know how to balance both DPS and heal, then they are not top healers. You post only shows that you have not real understanding of how healers class work.

Yeah boys, be smart, tell them to go play tank instead. We need more of those! I mean, think about it, tanks focus on DPS while occasionally using defensive/support skills... totally like current healers!

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Not enough to do?
DO you have all achievements, titles, mounts, minions, jobs leveled ?

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That argument is kind of silly. Reality is there is not enough variety of content (stuff that feels unique if you want). In fact, to me, players leveling, or finish all relics, is just a symptom of a problem: there is nothing better or more interesting to pursue.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Not enough to do?
DO you have all achievements, titles, mounts, minions, jobs leveled ?

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Pointless nonsense. Achievements for what exactly - I've run PotD 10 million times? Amazing! Have some more pointless fluff.

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Originally Posted by Knoahl

They did not simplify dps, they actually gave tanks more ways to dps, and DPS like BLM got more ways to keep DPSing... more buttons to DPS, Same with RDM.

What are you even saying lol. If anything having the DoT's as potent as they were and the accuracy checkes encouraged healers to not dps and put DoTs up then focus on healing as spells would miss and be a waste of mana. But these days we are encouraged to put as many GCD's as possible into the boss with large potency single target spells, thus contradicting what you are saying tbh.

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They have "nerfed" positional requirements and streamlined various aspects of tanks and DPS throughout the history of this game. 2.0 WAR, general positionals like Heavy Thrust on DRG and other DPS as well as changing delirium to make it easier. Removing DRK's DoT with Stormblood as well.

This ain't nothin' new.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Pointless nonsense. Achievements for what exactly - I've run PotD 10 million times? Amazing! Have some more pointless fluff.

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m8, it's a game. Everything you've done up to now is pointless.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

m8, it's a game. Everything you've done up to now is pointless.

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Achievements in this specific game are particularly pointless. Stupidly so.
I want them to be reworked to be workable - but currently they are not.

I'll be honest here. I feel very similar to the OP. People telling healers to go play DPS if you aren't happy is frustrating. Especially when quite a few in the forums that I have seen telling healers to go play deeps, wait and see, etc etc aren't even players that play healers so they just add their 2 gil to the opinion pool without first hand experience. They don't have any vested interest in it. HOWEVER, I will freely admit, I am not happy with the changes because as an astro main, I "feel" that it is a dumbing down of the card mechanics and nothing annoys me more then our upgrade to Malefic is only 20 potency more then what we already have (but rest assured the HP of mobs 70+ even in open world will jump another large chunk just making questing as a healer a pain in the ass slow).

But at the end of the day, Healers in FF14 are in a catch 22 due to the community and the content in the game. Just to be clear, i'm not talking about leveling dungeons but at cap, 80 when you're 30 ilevels above the content here. If you're a healer, and sit idle not doing anything but healing, when no one is taking dmg,.. no dpsing, nothing else.. people will call you out for being a shitty healer, and that you're just mooching. Then you get the flip side.. if you dps to the point where people are dying because your priortizing dps over heals.. again, it's your fault. There is NO winning here. You dps to much and ignore the main function of your class. People will yell at you. if you only heal and contribute nothing else? again you're going to be yelled at. No matter what, someone will take offense with how you play.

The other thing is.. and this is why I suspect that damage in levelling dungeon will increase but just like in 4.0 and 3.0 before it, while we're at recommended iLevel for said content.. there will be more damage coming in. Again at cap though, no I don't think there will be much of a difference. Main reasoning for me as to why I don't believe they (meaning square) will have the brass tacks to make it too hard is they've have a history of nerfing "hard fights" because the general public complained. Steps of Faith, Final Steps of Faith, Ultros fight.. how many others got nerfed because your general PUG couldn't clear it without massive amount of trouble because there required a very 'base' line of skill to clear said content.

So making content in dungeons hit harder, more AOE damage, i don't see because those same players who screamed for nerfs to .. let's be honest here.. easy fights with just basic mechanics that required a bit of communication.. will be on the forums at that point screaming stuff is to hard and needs nerfing. So I really do believe healers having alot of downtime again once people are geared up.. familiar with fights.. and will be bored.. to either DPS or not and then we will have once more a mega thread about Non DPS healers are Bad vs DPSing healers are bad.

That's.. just my opinion of course.

ps: I also am already planning on playing dancer on top of astro so.. can't tell me to go play a DPS if i don't like the changes XD

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Not enough to do?
DO you have all achievements, titles, mounts, minions, jobs leveled ?

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Everyone got their own goals and things they like and things they dont like. I dont think I need to farm all mounts, minions (beside some are on the glorious cash shop) and achievements to keep myself entertained in a game Ive been playing since 5 years now. I completed the things I wanted to complete, thats it. If I decide to use my time on forums, then I do it.

I find it hard to find sympathy for people in this regard being that people were telling healers to "go play another game" if they weren't DPSing for all these years. I remember those posts on reddit and this website.

Not so fun to hear it on the other side of the fence. Hopefully this teaches people a lesson to not be like this but I doubt it will.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

I find it hard to find sympathy for people in this regard being that people were telling healers to "go play another game" if they weren't DPSing for all these years.

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This was said to those kind of players that claimed it is alright to only stand around pressing a heal button like every 15 seconds because they came from a game where there was far less downtime between healing needed and they needed to manage their resources more. Those players often even encouraged others to also just be idle while the other party members actually farmed their loot for them. It was the unwillingness to adapt to a game that is kind of designed differently than what they were playing before.
Because it is a FACT that there is a lot of downtime between healing needed, and because it is so EASILY possible to mostly heal with oGCDs and some (buffed) GCDs, playing a no DPS healer is highly inefficient and also disrespectful to your team. It is selfish to let others do all the work for you while you just follow around and press one or two buttons here and there (or spam the heal button which is actually the same because you don't contribute much more). It works in other games, but not in this one. This is why those people were given the advice to play another game, if they only want to use healing spells and still be useful, efficient, not a burden and respectful to your team.

I do fully understand why people only want to heal when they play the healer role. Even though I like to do both healing and DPSing, I still get what they mean. But in this game it just doesn't work out that way.

90% of your casts are still going to be Broil. We all know that much for a fact, basically.

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Originally Posted by Limonia

This was said to those kind of players that claimed it is alright to only stand around pressing a heal button like every 15 seconds because they came from a game where there was far less downtime between healing needed and they needed to manage their resources more. Those players often even encouraged others to also just be idle while the other party members actually farmed their loot for them. It was the unwillingness to adapt to a game that is kind of designed differently than what they were playing before.
Because it is a FACT that there is a lot of downtime between healing needed, and because it is so EASILY possible to mostly heal with oGCDs and some (buffed) GCDs, playing a no DPS healer is highly inefficient and also disrespectful to your team. It is selfish to let others do all the work for you while you just follow around and press one or two buttons here and there (or spam the heal button which is actually the same because you don't contribute much more). It works in other games, but not in this one. This is why those people were given the advice to play another game, if they only want to use healing spells and still be useful, efficient, not a burden and respectful to your team.

I do fully understand why people only want to heal when they play the healer role. Even though I like to do both healing and DPSing, I still get what they mean. But in this game it just doesn't work out that way.

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Or maybe people aren't as good at games as you are and that downtime is them trying to focus on what's going on.

Of course gamers won't understand this concept being as that Sekiro meme exists.

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Originally Posted by Limonia

This was said to those kind of players that claimed it is alright to only stand around pressing a heal button like every 15 seconds because they came from a game where there was far less downtime between healing needed and they needed to manage their resources more. Those players often even encouraged others to also just be idle while the other party members actually farmed their loot for them. It was the unwillingness to adapt to a game that is kind of designed differently than what they were playing before.
Because it is a FACT that there is a lot of downtime between healing needed, and because it is so EASILY possible to mostly heal with oGCDs and some (buffed) GCDs, playing a no DPS healer is highly inefficient and also disrespectful to your team. It is selfish to let others do all the work for you while you just follow around and press one or two buttons here and there (or spam the heal button which is actually the same because you don't contribute much more). It works in other games, but not in this one. This is why those people were given the advice to play another game, if they only want to use healing spells and still be useful, efficient, not a burden and respectful to your team.

I do fully understand why people only want to heal when they play the healer role. Even though I like to do both healing and DPSing, I still get what they mean. But in this game it just doesn't work out that way.

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Yeah, because you totaly can do it without their heal, other are a burden to the heal forcing him burn more mana than he should, so the least they can do is doing enough damage without healer to carry them even more.

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Originally Posted by Nerfworthy

I think what a lot of people are hoping (myself included) is that the downtime will be reduced somewhat...

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My only fear about it, if and when that happens, we will find a good number of today's "healers" failing hard on keep people alive.

Just look at what happened to Steps of Faith 1.0, when DPS were asked to use some brain.

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Or maybe people aren't as good at games as you are and that downtime is them trying to focus on what's going on.

Of course gamers won't understand this concept being as that Sekiro meme exists.

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Sorry for actually liking to play games and want to be challenge or excel at them. Seems that nowdays everyone just want a to get a pat in the back just for being there and doing the bare minimum. I won't ever understand why people do not want to make use of their full kits. Furthemore, this isn't even about player skill. It is understandable if a player cannot perform at a higher level. What is puzzling is those that can but refuse to do so. What fun is there in remaining idle?
Also, what if they changed the DPS kit to a Buff/debuff kit, more in line whit other RPG healers. Would you then be ok with healers only healing? Is not that we do so because we want to be "green DPS", is that literally our kit is divided in two, and we want to make full use of it.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

My only fear about it, if and when that happens, we will find a good number of today's "healers" failing hard on keep people alive.

Just look at what happened to Steps of Faith 1.0, when DPS were asked to use some brain.

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What will be interesting to see is how they balance incoming damage with the slow gcd. I'm yet to be convinced that the changes are going to be major.

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Originally Posted by Elgeron

Sorry for actually liking to play games and want to be challenge or excel at them. Seems that nowdays everyone just want a to get a pat in the back just for being there and doing the bare minimum. I won't ever understand why people do not want to make use of their full kits. Furthemore, this isn't even about player skill. It is understandable if a player cannot perform at a higher level. What is puzzling is those that can but refuse to do so. What fun is there in remaining idle?

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You are proving my point. You seem to not comprehend people aren't as capable of you and expect others to be at your level.

Get off your high horse.

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Also, what if they changed the DPS kit to a Buff/debuff kit, more in line whit other RPG healers. Would you then be ok with healers only healing? Is not that we do so because we want to be "green DPS", is that literally our kit is divided in two, and we want to make full use of it.

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I can play either cause I'm not picky. I can play FFXI's healing focused healer or this game's DPS heavy healer. I don't care either way, the changes they are doing here seem to be improvements to me getting rid of the bloat.

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Originally Posted by Elgeron

Sorry for actually liking to play games and want to be challenge or excel at them. Seems that nowdays everyone just want a to get a pat in the back just for being there and doing the bare minimum. I won't ever understand why people do not want to make use of their full kits. Furthemore, this isn't even about player skill. It is understandable if a player cannot perform at a higher level. What is puzzling is those that can but refuse to do so. What fun is there in remaining idle?
Also, what if they changed the DPS kit to a Buff/debuff kit, more in line whit other RPG healers. Would you then be ok with healers only healing? Is not that we do so because we want to be "green DPS", is that literally our kit is divided in two, and we want to make full use of it.

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Nobody is saying YOU can't challenge yourself and try to excel at them.
However don't project your ambitions on others, that's what people saying.


You want to DPS and be #1? By all means go for it!
Just don't force this on the next person in your party unless they agreed to it when forming the group.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Just don't force this on the next person in your party unless they agreed to it when forming the group.

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I agree in theory - but why do we need to advocate for the lowest denominator constantly.
As the game is currently a healer not dpsing, lets say for the sake of argument - at all, is a complete dead weight in the group. They are literally adding nothing of any value. They could but they are actively choosing not to.

As you say nothing should be forced, i agree, but we shouldn't keep defending this style of play - the baseline should be of a higher standard when it comes to healing - being able to play your role to the fullest should be the standard, not the exception.

Yes, I am aware that all this is a silly thing to get to worried about given 90% of the content is pointless - but it's important to make the distinction between good play and bad - especially as the game is programmed they way it currently is.

Of course, all this may be subject to change in the expansion but I honestly doubt it.

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You are proving my point. You seem to not comprehend people aren't as capable of you and expect others to be at your level.

Get off your high horse.

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And you seem to lack reading comprehension

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Furthemore, this isn't even about player skill. It is understandable if a player cannot perform at a higher level. What is puzzling is those that can but refuse to do so. What fun is there in remaining idle?

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Thats what I said. Maybe you should be the one to get off of you "moral" high horse. I play this game with my father. He literally have no sensibility on his left hand, so when playing most of the time he cant hardly use the mouse. Furthermore he doesn't have the dexterity to play hard content. He plays mostly Tank and Healer. He makes many mistakes, but I wouldn't force him or anyone doing more than they are capable of. Yet is ridculous that our skill have to be taken from us only because some cannot reach the same level. And the complain , again, is not about skill. Is about those that can play better, contribute more in a team game, but want any excuse not to do so...

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I can play either cause I'm not picky. I can play FFXI's healing focused healer or this game's DPS heavy healer. I don't care either way, the changes they are doing here seem to be improvements to me getting rid of the bloat.

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...like you.

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Originally Posted by Elgeron

And you seem to lack reading comprehension



Thats what I said. Maybe you should be the one to get off of you "moral" high horse. I play this game with my father. He literally have no sensibility on his left hand, so when playing most of the time he cant hardly use the mouse. Furthermore he doesn't have the dexterity to play hard content. He plays mostly Tank and Healer. He makes many mistakes, but I wouldn't force him or anyone doing more than they are capable of. Yet is ridculous that our skill have to be taken from us only because some cannot reach the same level. And the complain , again, is not about skill. Is about those that can play better, contribute more in a team game, but want any excuse not to do so...

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I understand that you are a entitled gamer that cannot comprehend that this most dreaded and evil "downtime" the people en masse yell at the top of their lungs is not simply that to those of lesser skill and experience. Oh but how lazy these people are because they don't have the whereabouts and experience you have.

Your type is all the same to me, a broken record.

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...like you.

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I'm fairly certain I can outplay you in this game if you really want to go there.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

I agree in theory - but why do we need to advocate for the lowest denominator constantly.
As the game is currently a healer not dpsing, lets say for the sake of argument - at all, is a complete dead weight in the group. They are literally adding nothing of any value. They could but they are actively choosing not to.

As you say nothing should be forced, i agree, but we shouldn't keep defending this style of play - the baseline should be of a higher standard when it comes to healing - being able to play your role to the fullest should be the standard, not the exception.

Yes, I am aware that all this is a silly thing to get to worried about given 90% of the content is pointless - but it's important to make the distinction between good play and bad - especially as the game is programmed they way it currently is.

Of course, all this may be subject to change in the expansion but I honestly doubt it.

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Works both ways really. Why do people have to advocate to the highest standard in a video game?
People play this game for a miriad of reasons, ranging from competitive play to relaxing and passing time.


I get your point though, and there probably isn't a good/correct/complete answer that would satisfy either side.

Isn't by that very same train of thought, make everything in the game pointless?

I dunno man, take a break. Play another game, it's almost summer get a tan, go outside and chill with your dog. Getting frustrated on a fourm for a game you are clearly upset with right now is not healthy. You don't owe the game anything, so don't fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy. It's a hobby, not a job.

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I understand that you are a entitled gamer that cannot comprehend that this most dreaded and evil "downtime" the people en masse yell at the top of their lungs is not simply that to those of lesser skill and experience. Oh but how lazy these people are because they don't have the whereabouts and experience you have.

Your type is all the same to me, a broken record.

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Amazing, you haven't read anything, have you?

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I'm fairly certain I can outplay you in this game if you really want to go there.

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Little bit of an hypocrital stance. Perhaps if you had read my post and understand it, you will realize that I'm not speaking about skill, but actually putting effort in a team.

(skipped 14 pages of reading, no idea where the discussion has gone after the OP)

I do feel bad for my healer-main friends. if they gutted the melee-DPS the way they did healers, I would be equally if not more upset. But tellin healers to go DPS is just plain stupid; you really want to make our DPS queues longer? you really want to wait 30-60 minutes longer in PF waiting for a healer to join? we need MORE people playing healers, not less.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

I understand that you are a entitled gamer that cannot comprehend that this most dreaded and evil "downtime" the people en masse yell at the top of their lungs is not simply that to those of lesser skill and experience. Oh but how lazy these people are because they don't have the whereabouts and experience you have.

Your type is all the same to me, a broken record.



I'm fairly certain I can outplay you in this game if you really want to go there.

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what are you talking about? this thread isnt about whether or not you should dps in downtime. ts about simplifying and homogenizing healer kits to the point where if youre one of the healers who likes to dps in downtime you'll likely have little to do and (especially inthe case of sch) a boring rotation and non healers telling healer mains to stop complaining. stop trying to derail.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Works both ways really. Why do people have to advocate to the highest standard in a video game?
People play this game for a miriad of reasons, ranging from competitive play to relaxing and passing time.


I get your point though, and there probably isn't a good/correct/complete answer that would satisfy either side.

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Yes, absolutely. I'm not coming for anyone.
But, we hold DPS to demonstrable standards and we should do the same with tanks and healers imo.
This game in particular is a funny case given the lack of numerical feedback (in the most part) so it is difficult to gauge success and improve on failure.
But the game is what it is - and regardless of how they dress it up, healing almost seems like an afterthought... it is not as engaging as it could be currently.

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Originally Posted by Elgeron

Amazing, you haven't read anything, have you?

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I have. But seems you aren't realizing what you said.

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Seems that nowdays everyone just want a to get a pat in the back just for being there and doing the bare minimum.

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This was in response to my post to someone else here.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Or maybe people aren't as good at games as you are and that downtime is them trying to focus on what's going on.

Of course gamers won't understand this concept being as that Sekiro meme exists.

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My post literally was about people not being of a certain skill level and you respond telling me you're tired of people showing up and getting free pats on the backs for being there.

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Little bit of an hypocrital stance. Perhaps if you had read my post and understand it, you will realize that I'm not speaking about skill, but actually putting effort in a team.

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You just implied I don't care about being a team player or putting effort. So yeah, no I get what you're saying and that is why I said what I said. You really wanna go there we can. I do whatever it takes to benefit the party.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Yes, absolutely. I'm not coming for anyone.
But, we hold DPS to demonstrable standards and we should do the same with tanks and healers imo.
This game in particular is a funny case given the lack of numerical feedback (in the most part) so it is difficult to gauge success and improve on failure.
But the game is what it is - and regardless of how they dress it up, healing almost seems like an afterthought... it is not as engaging as it could be currently.

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How do you gauge success?
For me personally, if I get a group and clear the content without wipes, I consider it a success, and couldn't care less about the numbers pulled by someone.
Doesn't matter if it took 5 minutes to clear that dungeon or one hour. Objective was achieved, so I'm happy.


I don't think healing is an afterthought in this game. I think people simply expect too much or play with the wrong ideology.
As mentioned before, we all play this game for different reasons, and those reasons will clash at some point.
The mature people will find ways to deal with it and move on. The rest? Most likely create forum/reddit discussions

I gauge success as everyone trying, at their own skill level, and people having fun. I don't expect perfection or for them to be near my skill level. I will take a novice who can barely get one DPS spell in as healer who's trying over a skilled one who is not giving two shits and let's the party wipe any day.

I play every role so I know what it's like to pick up the slack of others in various ways. I don't really care, I enjoy helping people until I run into someone disrespectful. Be bad at the game all you want I'm completely chill with that, just don't be a jerk.

So in other words, success to me is playing with people who aren't jerks.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Or maybe people aren't as good at games as you are and that downtime is them trying to focus on what's going on.

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I'm not good. I don't do every extreme primal, only the ones where I think the mechanics look fun. And I usually only do the first and maybe second fight of a savage tier. And in those I'm not doing as much DPS as I could and I'm not healing as efficiently as I could, because I can't memorize every timeline perfectly and make mistakes at mechanics. But I'm trying my best every time.

If you are not new and still do not understand that the tank is at like 80% HP or higher most of the time if you just apply a Regen and use some heals here and there, then you should really try to focus on understanding the game you play first. You do play with other real people. Try to put in a little bit of effort at least.
NO ONE in their right mind would say that you have to DPS all the time as a healer and aren't allowed to use GCD heals. It is totally ok to heal. What's disrescpectful is not doing anything but pressing that one heal button IN THIS GAME.


Something I've noticed veeery often during the years I've been playing this game is also that heal-only healers have the most trouble healing people in chaotic situations. They are used to healing being such an easy task because it's usually enough to press those three heal buttons.
So if it gets chaotic and you know all your abilities and oGCDs aren't enough anymore or on CD you just use the GCD heals that are best for the situation to save the party instead of pressing Stone.
But A LOT of bad heal-only healers would just, for example, cast Medica II twice even though the regen timer is at 20s. And never use Largesse and so on, because just Medica II was enough when nothing bad happened. Because they are not used at all to using all tools available to them. They never tried healing efficiently before. But if you like to put out as much DPS as possible, you HAVE to heal efficiently. That makes you learn how to use your heals much better as well.

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Originally Posted by Limonia

I'm not good. I don't do every extreme primal, only the ones where I think the mechanics look fun. And I usually only do the first and maybe second fight of a savage tier. And in those I'm not doing as much DPS as I could and I'm not healing as efficiently as I could, because I can't memorize every timeline perfectly and make mistakes at mechanics. But I'm trying my best every time.

If you are not new and still do not understand that the tank is at like 80% HP or higher most of the time if you just apply a Regen and use some heals here and there, then you should really try to focus on understanding the game you play first. You do play with other real people. Try to put in a little bit of effort at least.
NO ONE in their right mind would say that you have to DPS all the time as a healer and aren't allowed to use GCD heals. It is totally ok to heal. What's disrescpectful is not doing anything but pressing that one heal button IN THIS GAME.


Something I've noticed veeery often during the years I've been playing this game is also that heal-only healers have the most trouble healing people in chaotic situations. They are used to healing being such an easy task because it's usually enough to press those three heal buttons.
So if it gets chaotic and you know all your abilities and oGCDs aren't enough anymore or on CD you just use the GCD heals that are best for the situation to save the party instead of pressing Stone.
But A LOT of bad heal-only healers would just, for example, cast Medica II twice even though the regen timer is at 20s. And never use Largesse and so on, because just Medica II was enough when nothing bad happened. Because they are not used at all to using all tools available to them. They never tried healing efficiently before. But if you like to put out as much DPS as possible, you HAVE to heal efficiently. That makes you learn how to use your heals much better as well.

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Some people's first game is Final Fantasy XIV whereas a lot of us here play other games or other RPGs. Some people's first RPG is FFXIV, or the one they put the most time in.

I really do not see this as disrespectful. I've played Tank as main and DPS for years and have never felt offended if a healer doesn't DPS. I DPS like a boss when I play healer but...I really only see it as a bonus. I never felt disrespected by someone not doing that. I've only felt disrespected by people being elitists in runs for new players and making them quit the game due to their behavior. That's the kind of stuff I find disrespectful.

Sure it's good for people to strive to be better, but that comes at their pace on their time, not yours or mine. Unless we're doing core content I don't expect that from people. It would be foolish of me to do so.

Good work being so disingenous and just quoting part of my answer that benefits you.

Here, let me fix that for you

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Seems that nowdays everyone just want a to get a pat in the back just for being there and doing the bare minimum. I won't ever understand why people do not want to make use of their full kits. Furthemore, this isn't even about player skill. It is understandable if a player cannot perform at a higher level. What is puzzling is those that can but refuse to do so. What fun is there in remaining idle?

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First post,

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I wouldn't force him or anyone doing more than they are capable of. Yet is ridculous that our skill have to be taken from us only because some cannot reach the same level. And the complain , again, is not about skill. Is about those that can play better, contribute more in a team game, but want any excuse not to do so...

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Second post.

Also, lets talk more about this.

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You just implied I don't care about being a team player or putting effort. So yeah, no I get what you're saying and that is why I said what I said.

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So, ok, you want to do the best you can for your team, but then you said this.

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I don't care either way, the changes they are doing here seem to be improvements to me getting rid of the bloat.

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What do you mean with "bloat"? Who are full mechanichs just "bloat". The DPS rotation for SCH was bloat? Why? Then just do the same with the DPS, the Tanks, let then use just 1 skill for damage, 1 for dots or whatever. Was the card system "bloat"? Because it wasn't balance all the time?. Those things were fun. This is a game, where what dictates if is good or no is how much "fun" you are having. So far the game has done an excellent job at balancing casual players and skilled players, both in content and classes.
Classes like WHM are accesible, DPS was, at the end of the day, the factor that differentaited good from excellent healers. A player could play pick to do certain content and ignore other depending of difficulty, and classes like SCH let players excel by giving them a system that allows them to go beyond their roles while still being enganging. They have been being simplified since ARR. This won't make healers that are not skilled at DPSing more skilled, just punish those that are good already. And yet good players as yourself seem happy enough that is going to happen.

If you are so worried about healers that are not skilled, you should instead worry about the rumored increase of healing requirements in dungeons. Just to remind you of how much trouble healers had in AV, The Vault and other instances that had to be nerf.

One final note though

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Seems that nowdays everyone just want a to get a pat in the back just for being there and doing the bare minimum.

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Oh, I have realized what I said. Do you think I am a good player? Hells no. I'm painfully average. The hardest content I have managed to beat is Alphascape Savage 11, hardly anything notable. I died and screwed up many times. But here is the thing, I won't ever celebrate a game being made easier and simpler just to content some, while giving the middle finger to those that sticked with the game for so long. I will be very happy to be proved wrong, that healing has become enganging and difficult, yet somehow accesible for those player that are not skilled. Believe me, but as it stands, I have no much hope.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

I gauge success as everyone trying, at their own skill level, and people having fun. I don't expect perfection or for them to be near my skill level. I will take a novice who can barely get one DPS spell in as healer who's trying over a skilled one who is not giving two shits and let's the party wipe any day.

I play every role so I know what it's like to pick up the slack of others in various ways. I don't really care, I enjoy helping people until I run into someone disrespectful. Be bad at the game all you want I'm completely chill with that, just don't be a jerk.

So in other words, success to me is playing with people who aren't jerks.

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But it doesn't have to be those extremes.

And it doesn't change the fact that the game doesn't currently require enough of healers to not DPS.

I would never tell anyone how to play in a 4 man dungeon because
1) it's pointless
2) It only causes friction
3) who is actually talking in dungeons anyway.

But

Given the choice I would always choose the healer that does damage over the healer that doesn't. If there was a choice - which there isn't, so there we are.

No, it doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things but watching someone stand there and not contribute whilst the tank and dps are hammering away at their buttons is not good play.
And I'm only talking about specifically baseline content. Not Savage or Ultimate. Just to be clear.

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Originally Posted by Elgeron

Good work being so disingenous and just quoting part of my answer that benefits you.

Here, let me fix that for you



First post,



Second post.

Also, lets talk more about this.

So, ok, you want to do the best you can for your team, but then you said this.



What do you mean with "bloat"? Who are full mechanichs just "bloat". The DPS rotation for SCH was bloat? Why? Then just do the same with the DPS, the Tanks, let then use just 1 skill for damage, 1 for dots or whatever. Was the card system "bloat"? Because it wasn't balance all the time?. Those things were fun. This is a game, where what dictates if is good or no is how much "fun" you are having. So far the game has done an excellent job at balancing casual players and skilled players, both in content and classes.
Classes like WHM are accesible, DPS was, at the end of the day, the factor that differentaited good from excellent healers. A player could play pick to do certain content and ignore other depending of difficulty, and classes like SCH let players excel by giving them a system that allows them to go beyond their roles while still being enganging. They have been being simplified since ARR. This won't make healers that are not skilled at DPSing more skilled, just punish those that are good already. And yet good players as yourself seem happy enough that is going to happen.

If you are so worried about healers that are not skilled, you should instead worry about the rumored increase of healing requirements in dungeons. Just to remind you of how much trouble healers had in AV, The Vault and other instances that had to be nerf.

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It was your opening line holy crap dude lol. Stop reworking this story I really don't have time for this ignorance.

And lmfao you are upset I agree with SE's decision and consider this bloat and like a more streamlined DPS kit?

Jfc dude just straight up projection I have no time for this.

"S-stop saying things I don't like, you big lying meany, y-you are just upset."

Also not a single explanation, wonderful.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Some people's first game is Final Fantasy XIV whereas a lot of us here play other games or other RPGs. Some people's first RPG is FFXIV, or the one they put the most time in.

I really do not see this as disrespectful. I've played Tank as main and DPS for years and have never felt offended if a healer doesn't DPS. I DPS like a boss when I play healer but...I really only see it as a bonus. I never felt disrespected by someone not doing that.

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Maybe it's because I'm really bad at socializing (and expressing myself with words, so sorry if I come off as weird all the time), but I find it extremely unfair if I have to run the content for someone who only presses like one button, while I and the others in the group are doing things all the time. Even if the DPS doesn't use his perfect rotation, if he's putting in some effort it's totally fine with me. But a not new healer that only uses heals even though the tank is almost at full HP all the time anyway isn't. Why is is alright for the healer to just stand there? Because it seems to be alright in some other games. Because in some other games he HAS to press the heal buttons constantly. So he only assumes instead of thinking and observing (or outright refuses to adapt), and doesn't adapt his accustomed "playstyle" to this game.

I never played an MMO before this one. The first class I played was Conjurer. I saw I had DPS spells and enemies only removed so much from HP bars. Of course I was very careful at first, but I used DPS spells from the beginning. I think that if FFXIV is your very first MMO or even RPG your even less prone to just healing, because your not used to the heal-only role of some other games.

I have to add that if someone is totally new and doesn't DPS as healer I'm really fine with it, because he must first realize that healing isn't needed all the time. Maybe he doesn't have good gear in his first dungeon and the tank is inexperienced as well, so he HAS to use his heals. But he is able to realize after a while that he would just stand around doing nothing if he only heals in a "normal" party.

And to the first post you made that I quoted, with the "play other games", this is almost all the time only meant for healers from other games that refuse to adapt, not to the new and inexperienced players that are still learning. But the ones that deliberately just idle instead of doing something, full knowing that this game is designed differently.