Stupid reason to report someone

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Or not. Just let people play how they want. You don't pay for their sub.

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That may be true but this is an MMO, i.e. other players are playing and paying subs too.
If you can't play your job efficiently, then you are interfering with the other players in your party and forcing them to pick up your slack.
For healers, this means being able to balance healing and DPS. It would be one things if the OP had to compensate for a squishy tank or DPS that are prone to being damage but to just say "I don't wanna" seems lazy...

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Originally Posted by Watachy

How can you savor the exact same run everyday ?
I mean at the begining ok, why not. After a certain amount of time in the patch, doing a 20+ min expert run is just a pain.

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As Moomba33 said, it is indeed a play style thing. In recent days I've found I get more enjoyment out of running the content for the sake of running it rather than running it as fast as possible for the tomes / other rewards. We will get showered in free tomes right before 4.0 anyway so why rush?

You're right. Reporting someone for not playing the way you think they should play IS stupid.

What's NOT stupid is reporting someone for "telling you off" when you asked them to participate in a fashion that would help you complete the duty faster.

You were reported for telling someone off, OP, not for not doing DPS. There are plenty of ways to respond to a situation like that which don't result in explosion, but you chose to explode. That is definitely reportable.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

If you can't play your job efficiently, then you are interfering with the other players in your party and forcing them to pick up your slack.

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this is untrue for healers as all dungeons are made with healers doing absolutely no damage as said by the devs. (if we are going to talking about dungeon reqs)

telling someone to play efficiently isn't a game req to be able to do dungeons.

just do enough to do the dungeon req and you are fine. if players want to have perfect runs they can play with thier friends.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Uhm, no - none of the guildhests are required for anything at all (excepting unlocking other guildhests of course.) AFAIK you can go through the entire game and do everything else in it without ever doing a single guildhest.

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Getting through "More than a Feeler" used to be required for progression. That was long before Heavensward came out.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

this is untrue for healers as all dungeons are made with healers doing absolutely no damage as said by the devs. (if we are going to talking about dungeon reqs)

telling someone to play efficiently isn't a game req to be able to do dungeons.

just do enough to do the dungeon req and you are fine. if players want to have perfect runs they can play with thier friends.

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Once again, do you seriously believe dungeons were designed where healers can literally AFK for 80% of them? Omitting a third of your abilities isn't efficient play. I'm not playing Dragoon efficiently if I stop using Heavy Thrust, Battle Litany or BotD. If you want to only do the bare minimum expected of you, why shouldn't you queue with friends instead of forcing three other random people to accept you can be arsed to do better?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Once again, do you seriously believe dungeons were designed where healers can literally AFK for 80% of them? Omitting a third of your abilities isn't efficient play. I'm not playing Dragoon efficiently if I stop using Heavy Thrust, Battle Litany or BotD. If you want to only do the bare minimum expected of you, why shouldn't you queue with friends instead of forcing three other random people to accept you can be arsed to do better?

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If i'd player as a healer throughout a dungeon without dealing damage, i'd be pressing about 1-2 buttons max. These type of healers aren't support healers: they're leechers.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Once again, do you seriously believe dungeons were designed where healers can literally AFK for 80% of them?

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You may be looking at it the wrong way.

It's not that dungeons and content are designed so that you don't HAVE to do your absolute best, they're designed on the lowest common denominator, so that IF by chance you have someone new, or someone who isn't capable of playing their given role at its absolute highest, you can still clear the content. The difference of course is a matter of minutes, but the big picture is accessibility. Even raids aren't designed based on one single, absolutely perfect execution of mechanics and rotations by 8 people. Gordias came close to that, and STILL wasn't designed with healer DPS in mind, but look how well that went.

To clarify, before anyone comes thundering in to dispute that, raids are designed to require a certain amount of DPS and a degree of precision mechanical timing or handling, but there's still a LOT of leeway, and that's largely to remain somewhat forgiving and flexible for almost any standard comp. The idea is that, generally, if you have 2 tanks, 2 healers, perhaps 2 melees and 2 ranged, it doesn't matter if you DON'T have a DRG, or don't have an AST, or if you even have 2 BRDs and no caster, you can still, with perhaps more effort and proper teamwork, clear the content. But that's raids.

Yoshida has said they make dungeons to be accessible above all else. Yes, even "expert" dungeons. This is a quality of life thing, for the sake of players who may lack time in a busy daily schedule or perfect working knowledge of a given job to still be capable of clearing some kind of content. Maybe it takes 20 minutes instead of 15 because your healer isn't DPSing, but then what are your DPS doing (or NOT doing) that makes it take so long, assuming it could still be done in 15 regardless of a healer dealing damage? What is your tank doing to help, if anything?

See, it's easy to say, "well I'm doing all this work and this guy over here. . ." but fact is, IF the content can be done in a short time, and without even factoring in damage from 1 out of 4 players, then it really becomes a question of "where are WE not doing something together that might make this go faster?" Are we not pulling things together well enough to fully utilize aoes? Are we not buffing or using support skills that will increase party dps? Are we using contradictory skills? (DRK uses Blood Price for MP, but the healer starts Holy spamming, for example). Somewhere in there a breakdown happens, and party damage becomes lesser, or unoptimized, and while it's easy to point a finger at one person, remember you have 3 pointing back at you on that same hand.

For the sake of a good run, why not simply communicate? No really, it's that easy. "Hey MCH, I'm gonna pull all these enemies to this point and use [X tank cooldown]. Put out a Bishop and Hypercharge it for the BLM. Healer, don't worry about healing me unless I drop to [% HP]. Go ahead and Cleric Stance, then you and the DPS go full ham on the deeps, deal?". . . Sure, maybe no one has the time or wants to bother saying all that, but a little communication for team synergy goes a long way, AND guarantees you're all on the same page. And it sure beats raging over what you want someone to do, but didn't say anything about.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

How can you savor the exact same run everyday ?
I mean at the begining ok, why not. After a certain amount of time in the patch, doing a 20+ min expert run is just a pain.

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If you can't savor it everyday, then you shouldn't be running it everyday. This game has a huge wealth of available content. If you like the game at all, you should be able to find something in it that you actually enjoy. That's what you should be running, not something you consider a pain.

This is a game. It's whole purpose for existing is to enjoy it. You're doing yourself a huge disservice if you ignore that to just plow through boring junk instead. And if you then expect other players to cater to the fact that you don't even want to be there, then you're doing them a disservice as well.

Now, there are plenty of other reasons for liking to go fast that are perfectly valid. If you enjoy the thrill of challenging yourself to see how fast you can down a boss, or how many adds you can take on at once, then great, let's go for it. But if you just want to get it over with because you don't even want to be there, then you shouldn't be there. Let someone who wants to do the run take your place and everyone involved will be better off for it.


When I'm healing (which admittedly, I haven't done for a while) I stance dance, seeing how best to interweave healing and DPS together, but I certainly don't do it in order to get out of there quicker. I do it because the game is a lot more fun that way (especially on easy content, where healing alone would be boring).

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Once again, do you seriously believe dungeons were designed where healers can literally AFK for 80% of them? Omitting a third of your abilities isn't efficient play. I'm not playing Dragoon efficiently if I stop using Heavy Thrust, Battle Litany or BotD. If you want to only do the bare minimum expected of you, why shouldn't you queue with friends instead of forcing three other random people to accept you can be arsed to do better?

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believe? i know they were. it was said, there is no doubt they are made so easy that the whole group can watch netflix barely doing any real rotation.

because in the end i am not the one forcing my own standards on anyone it is you.

if people meet the req to complete a dungeon that is all that matters after that it's all opinion on how someone should be.

bah, and there I was hoping for funny stupid stuff like "glam does not match" or "laying dead on a table an calling yourself a table cloth is not real RP!". But instead I get the xth rendition of winy healers grasping for excuses to be lazy in content....

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

If you can't savor it everyday, then you shouldn't be running it everyday. This game has a huge wealth of available content. If you like the game at all, you should be able to find something in it that you actually enjoy. That's what you should be running, not something you consider a pain.

This is a game. It's whole purpose for existing is to enjoy it. You're doing yourself a huge disservice if you ignore that to just plow through boring junk instead. And if you then expect other players to cater to the fact that you don't even want to be there, then you're doing them a disservice as well.

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Absolutely agreed.

It is unreasonable to expect random players in a PUG in DF to perform like seasoned raiders. It's entirely reasonable to expect new players, inexperienced players, rusty players and bored players only there for the tomes, in which case you cannot expect stellar performance from all players in a DF PUG. Additionally rushing through content, and grinding content to cap tomes and things like that are really not helping anyone enjoy the game. In the long run, players doing that are far more likely to become jaded and burned out on the game. They stop enjoying themselves and that's a problem. The solution is as you say, the wealth of content that the game provides. Don't do the same thing every day, do the things that take your fancy and forget about that nagging obligation you feel to cap your tomes as quickly as possible.

I find that people who enjoy the game play better regardless of their level of skill or experience in the game because they are enjoying it, it feels good to do well.

Regarding that other content and pace, here is a recent experience of mine. Just the other night my wife and I were running around in the Churning Mists - which we just opened up, we were both lvl 56 in our main jobs - due to reasons(*) beyond the game's control, or ours. Well, it was just the two of us and we came across a FATE that was poorly positioned with a group of level 55-56 dragons roaming and lurking around the FATE, and the FATE itself was a stream of level 55-56 dragons and a few larger adds seemed to come into play as well, or they could just have been local spawns. Either way, it was just us, and the dragons.

Well, our gear is the level 56 story gear, but we nailed the FATE in decent time between us. It reminded me of when ARR was young and if you were exploring you could find FATE that no one else was fighting yet, and of course your levels were appropriate to the monsters, so they were relatively threatening. It was really stupidly fun, in the end I was kiting almost everything, literally 6-8 monsters on me at a time, and my wife was spamming holy and occasionally regen, and a real heal if I got low. I blew through my PLD cool-downs and kited them for all I was worth. It was fast paced, and she was doing the damage while I was running around like a lunatic, basically we started laughing like maniacs in the middle of all this, and when we finished the FATE, we laughed for a while longer and remembered exactly how much fun this kin of thing was when ARR was young. We greatly enjoyed that session, and of course wanted to play longer but life and sanity intervened and an end was called for the night.

The point is this, find the things that you enjoy, and do them with the people you enjoy being with in-game. Forget the to-do lists, the chores, and the progression treadmill. At the end of the day this is a game to be played for a very long time, there is no rush. But most of all, like Niwashi said, there is a lot (I believe the official word might be "crap-tonne") of content in the game, find the things that you enjoy doing each day and do those things in addition to, or instead of what you normally do. You will enjoy the game more, you will relax, you will play and you will realize that an extra 5 minutes in a dungeon is far, far, far from the end of the world.

Reporting another player for something is a fairly harsh step to take. We've been talking about healers and DPS again, and all the usual arguments have been made, but at the end of the day, reporting a player who is a healer for not doing DPS in a dungeon is a stupid reason to report someone. Getting into a war of not so nice words in-game at the time is pretty stupid too. I think a lot of this stuff comes from people who believe that their time is being wasted if everyone else is not playing to their standard in the way they would like. I've got news for you folks, you're playing a video game, you're wasting just as much time either way.

Finally, this concept of wasted time seems to me to be rooted in an almost compulsive need to progress, whether it be levels, gear, raids or whatever. My question about that is a simple one. What is it that you are measuring your progress against? It doesn't matter if you clear all the content 1 month of 6 months from release, you still clear it. Only so many players can keep up with the world first groups, and most players are not in that category in any case. So relax, slow down, treat people as you want them to treat you, have a nice cup of tea and some shortbread and chill.

(*) - my wife has a chronic health condition that frequently prevents her from playing or enjoying FFXIV (or any other game), I will only progress story and my main job when she can play, so I am at the same point as her, and we can experience the game together. In the mean time I folow my own adivce and level alts, got my crafters all to 50 and am working on 60 next, and finally took up fishing, the last DoL job I have to level to 50. There is plenty do to in the game, even if you have to take a lengthy hiatus from story progression.

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

bah, and there I was hoping for funny stupid stuff like "glam does not match" or "laying dead on a table an calling yourself a table cloth is not real RP!". But instead I get the xth rendition of winy healers grasping for excuses to be lazy in content....

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Hey, hey! Let's not bring Table Cloth into this! She's a heroine to me :D

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

You may be looking at it the wrong way.It's not that dungeons and content are designed so that you don't HAVE to do your absolute best, they're designed on the lowest common denominator, so that IF by chance you have someone new, or someone who isn't capable of playing their given role at its absolute highest, you can still clear the content. The difference of course is a matter of minutes, but the big picture is accessibility. Even raids aren't designed based on one single, absolutely perfect execution of mechanics and rotations by 8 people. Gordias came close to that, and STILL wasn't designed with healer DPS in mind, but look how well that went.

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Considering dungeon queues dropped to the put they funneled us back into them with the latest Anima step and have previously openly acknowledged their dungeons are boring. That appeal to the lowest common denominator doesn't seem to work. Nonetheless, I am not going to put up a fuss at low levels. Once you reach 60 or Alexander, you should be capable of performing your job properly. This includes Cleric Stance for healers. No other role can omit a third of their abilities and still be thought of as "good." If you fancy doing the bare minimum, I suppose you'll harbor no complaints when I stop dodging aoes or use defense cooldowns. After all, if we really break it down to their technical definitions. Each job is intended to do the following:

Tanks hold aggro
DPS deal damage
Healers heal

I can hold aggro spamming nothing but Flash/Overpower/Unleash and I can deal damage without dodging. In fact, some jobs (i.e Black Mage, Monk) may lose DPS if they need to move frequently.

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Yoshida has said they make dungeons to be accessible above all else. Yes, even "expert" dungeons. This is a quality of life thing, for the sake of players who may lack time in a busy daily schedule or perfect working knowledge of a given job to still be capable of clearing some kind of content. Maybe it takes 20 minutes instead of 15 because your healer isn't DPSing, but then what are your DPS doing (or NOT doing) that makes it take so long, assuming it could still be done in 15 regardless of a healer dealing damage? What is your tank doing to help, if anything?

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I'll reiterate. No DPS job in the entire game can make up 920 potency. There is quite literally nothing more I can do on Dragoon to make up the massive amount of damage Holy inflicts. You are arguing a false equivalent. Tanks and DPS wanting healers to DPS aren't necessarily lazy. They want the run to go faster and cannot make up the damage themselves. Furthermore, communication only works if it's reciprocated. I won't scream obscenities at healers who won't DPS; I'll ask them to. If they refuse, then they've essentially said, "Sorry. I feel like watching Netflix, so you do all the work." Yeah, no. They have now forced their play style onto me by refusing to perform above the bare minimum. Therefore, I'll echo the same sentiment the other side does. "If you want to only heal, go play with friends who won't mind. Don't waste random people's time because you're lazy."

And it is laziness at 60. Like I mentioned previously, current dungeons are so incredibly easy, a healer not DPSing will have nothing to do for 80% of the run.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

believe? i know they were. it was said, there is no doubt they are made so easy that the whole group can watch netflix barely doing any real rotation.

because in the end i am not the one forcing my own standards on anyone it is you.

if people meet the req to complete a dungeon that is all that matters after that it's all opinion on how someone should be.

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Except you are. You're demanding three/seven random people accept your refusal to perform beyond the bare of minimum. And how dare they complain about carrying you through. As mentioned above, if every role were afforded this leeway, dungeons would take 40+ minutes. In that sense, if you're going to force your subpar playstyle onto me, I don't see how reason why I shouldn't reciprocate? Your job is to heal me, mine is to deal damage. I'll stand in everything so we both do our job by its technical definition.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Except you are.

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so what if they are 40 minutes plus?
you wouldn't be carrying anyone because they would be meeting reqs, see this is exactly what i was saying your standards is not the games standards. and to try to prove a point you talk about the most extreme? its not even like i said hey players can afk and auto attack to death i simply said a player doesn't have to do optimal rotations/gamestyles just do whats required.

also *forcing my subpar playstyle on you* what?! this is such a grey zone *you took a aoe get out scrub* *you didnt pull as much dps as a top tier raid dps scrub* man these people make me so mad!!!

see how extremes look so silly?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Snip

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This exactly! I wish I could like it/thumbs up it more than once. Though I hate to say it, it will still fall on deaf ears, like the reply directly beneath yours.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

This exactly! I wish I could like it/thumbs up it more than once. Though I hate to say it, it will still fall on deaf ears, like the reply directly beneath yours.

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someone doesn't agree with me so i will simply say they are blindly against me because i have to be right!

it would be nice to see a actual discussion instead of insults and extremes thrown around.

http://i.imgur.com/SG9Kl9k.jpg

Your all wasting your time with this thread lol. Its been stated many a times you cannot interfere with other peoples "Playstyle".

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Originally Posted by Joeking

http://i.imgur.com/SG9Kl9k.jpg

Your all wasting your time with this thread lol. Its been stated many a times you cannot interfere with other peoples "Playstyle".

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2 pages too late for that pic

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

2 pages too late for that pic

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Oh is it lol, good reminder anyways.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Your all wasting your time with this thread lol. Its been stated many a times you cannot interfere with other peoples "Playstyle".

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It's also been stated that you can vote-kick people for differences in playstyles:
http://s7.directupload.net/images/140813/h299ln6g.jpg
Source of image

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

so what if they are 40 minutes plus?
you wouldn't be carrying anyone because they would be meeting reqs, see this is exactly what i was saying your standards is not the games standards. and to try to prove a point you talk about the most extreme? its not even like i said hey players can afk and auto attack to death i simply said a player doesn't have to do optimal rotations/gamestyles just do whats required.

also *forcing my subpar playstyle on you* what?! this is such a grey zone *you took a aoe get out scrub* *you didnt pull as much dps as a top tier raid dps scrub* man these people make me so mad!!!

see how extremes look so silly?

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Most people don't want dungeons taking forty minutes, especially when they can be finished in less then ten.

And yes, actually, it would. To cite my own example. I ran Hullbreaker where the healer literally jumped around the map because the tank rotated their cooldowns effectively and his HP never dropped below 30k. The healer was essentially worthless-- to the point we could have completed the dungeon with a Summoner or Black Mage using Physic. In what capacity is that not a carry? The requirements are irrelevant as that only factors your allowance into the dungeon, not your contribution to its completion. That's the equivalent of saying a ilvl 255 Monk doing 1,000 DPS in A12 Savage isn't be carried when the other DPS are pulling 2,000+ because "he met the ilvl."

How are those extremes? A healer refusing to DPS is playing subpar. Insisting they are allowed to omit a third of their abilities because "it's my playstyle" is no different than a Black Mage roleplaying as an Ice Mage. Both are willfully gimping themselves and expecting the party their assigned with to just happily go along with it. In fact, if we glance back to OP, she admitted its her choice to not DPS. Therefore, she is telling me "I won't contribute even half of what you will because I'm choosing not to." That is her forcing her playstyle onto me since my preference to have a fast and smooth run is no longer possible. If three other people want a faster run, why should you get to dedicate otherwise? Once again, you also have the option to run with friends, but I am not going to let you idle for 80% of a dungeon because you don't feel like doing more than occasionally casting Cure.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

It's also been stated that you can vote-kick people for differences in playstyles:
http://s7.directupload.net/images/140813/h299ln6g.jpg

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Exactly! No questions asked, no calling people out, no essays. Its super fun in 24 man to initiate abandon then is passes hahaha

Tho really if you peeps want people who meet your criteria, party finder is the way to go.

Example
Looking for competent Male Roe's endowed with big DPS, and Nice skimpy Glamour for A11s.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

since my preference to have a fast and smooth run.

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what? since they aren't playing the way you want you will stop that? but its wrong to stop you from playing how you want?! what?

also what?! see more extremes when does a easy dungeon doable in i200 gear or less = a current end game raid?!

just because one person can pull 2k dps and another person only pulls 1k doesn't = carrying simply because you believe making the run faster is important.

also i am not talking about ilvl i am talking about actual requirements.

if a boss fight requires a average of a total of 3k dps to beat and it equals out to be 1k from tank 1k from one dps and 1k more from another doesn't mean anyone is getting carried 0 from healer noone is carried. (but that is one dam good tank AMIRITE!)

Lazy people gonna lazy. Then make excuses for other lazy people.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Tho really if you peeps want people who meet your criteria, party finder is the way to go.

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It can also be stated that if you don't want people to judge you for your "laxed" playstyle, go with friends. >w>

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Originally Posted by Dsync

Lazy people gonna lazy. Then make excuses for other lazy people.

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Can you pls stop liking, what I don't like? Thank You.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

It can also be stated that if you don't want people to judge you for your "laxed" playstyle, go with friends. >w>

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You assume these people have friends.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

It can also be stated that if you don't want people to judge you for your "laxed" playstyle, go with friends. >w>

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so it's ok to tell people to get gud or go away but not ok to tell people who only want to play with good people to play with other good people?

one side is willing to play with the other and the other isn't but the one that will is in the wrong? it's not even like the bad players are telling good players to play good if its a big deal why not take it slow and do little like they do?

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

what? since they aren't playing the way you want you will stop that? but its wrong to stop you from playing how you want?! what?

also what?! see more extremes when does a easy dungeon doable in i200 gear or less = a current end game raid?!

just because one person can pull 2k dps and another person only pulls 1k doesn't = carrying simply because you believe making the run faster is important.

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You like to cut off the following part of things it seems. She said if 3/4 of the dungeon prefers fast, then they shouldn't have to put up with the 4th jumping around. If 3/4 want to muck about and take their time, I'm sure she'll willingly drop from the party.

The content she described was an example, the same rules apply to current EG raids, dungeons and the like. If you can jump, emote, run around, do nothing at all for at least the time it takes to switch to Cleric, cast a few offensive spells and switch back from Cleric before a heal is needed, then you are being lazy for not doing so, as you're just letting others do work while you idle in the back.

Also doing 1k dmg while others are doing 2k+ is a carry as the 1ker obviously isn't pulling their weight (as she mentioned, would have decent ilevel for content). That means they're being lazy while the others are working their butts off.

Just face the facts. If people don't like your playstyle, they can get rid if you if they deem you to be a burden on progression. Likewise, if people play in your playstyle and there is someone giving the rest of the party a hard time about it, they can be kicked out as well.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Also doing 1k dmg while others are doing 2k+ is a carry as the 1ker obviously isn't pulling their weight (as she mentioned, would have decent ilevel for content). That means they're being lazy while the others are working their butts off.

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a carry implies they aren't doing their job in the duty as long as they are at or above they are. since healers are not considered at all no dps is required. afterwards it's just opinions.

dps wise if all a dps is needed in a dungeon is 1k dps and they do that they are carrying their weight even if someone else is pulling 2k.

being lazy in your opinion doesn't mean someone isn't doing their job.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Because the side that isn't playing effectively is benefiting from it while the side that has to cover from them isn't.

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just because you do more doesn't mean you are they aren't pulling their wait. wanting a faster run doesn't = the standard.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

When did I ever say that?
I merely stated that IF you were worried about being judged, you should play with people who won't judge you, just like how you stated that IF we were worried about getting in a party with a playstyle we don't agree with, we should go with people with similar playstyles.

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actually people who don't play well enough to someones extreme standards they get kicked if someone who plays well doesn't get kicked by a group who doesn't.

that is why i say play with your friends one side hurts the other while the other doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Oh, if you want insults I can give you those. However, Bourne_Endeavor spelled it out quite plainly and so has everyone else. You are WASTING other people's time by refusing to use nearly a 1/3 of your skill set because "I don't wanna." There is never SOOOOO much incoming damage to the tank or the entire party that you have to hover over their heal bars. That's the way the game is coded. The game itself tells you to do damage and that it's ok to do damage CONSTANTLY as a healer. So, you can't even claim that it doesn't because people have been linking where it does left and right too. At this point it's just willful ignorance on your part.

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*willful ignorance* you mean like the fact that everyone here denies the fact that all dungeons are made with 0 healer damage in mind? its ok to ignore that and not listen to it because the game also says you can dps if you want!

he said you don't have to dps as a healer! he must be evil noone should have choices! you have to it's not an option!!!

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

so it's ok to tell people to get gud or go away but not ok to tell people who only want to play with good people to play with other good people?

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When did I ever say that?
I merely stated that IF you were worried about being judged, you should play with people who won't judge you, just like how you stated that IF we were worried about getting in a party with a playstyle we don't agree with, we should go with people with similar playstyles.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

one side is willing to play with the other and the other isn't but the one that will is in the wrong?

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Because the side that isn't playing effectively is benefiting from it while the side that has to cover from them isn't.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

You assume these people have friends.

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Party finder then
"LF: Roe n Highlander Bara Daddies to carry this baby boy through Library (Hard)"

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

someone doesn't agree with me so i will simply say they are blindly against me because i have to be right!

it would be nice to see a actual discussion instead of insults and extremes thrown around.

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Oh, if you want insults I can give you those. However, Bourne_Endeavor spelled it out quite plainly and so has everyone else. You are WASTING other people's time by refusing to use nearly a 1/3 of your skill set because "I don't wanna." There is never SOOOOO much incoming damage to the tank or the entire party that you have to hover over their heal bars. That's the way the game is coded. The game itself tells you to do damage and that it's ok to do damage CONSTANTLY as a healer. So, you can't even claim that it doesn't because people have been linking where it does left and right too. At this point it's just willful ignorance on your part.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Party finder then
"LF: Roe n Highlander Bara Daddies to carry this baby boy through Library (Hard)"

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Highlander what the heck. That's so gross.. *initiates vote kick*

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Most people don't want dungeons taking forty minutes, especially when they can be finished in less than ten.

And yes, actually, it would. To cite my own example. I ran Hullbreaker where the healer literally jumped around the map because the tank rotated their cooldowns effectively and his HP never dropped below 30k. The healer was essentially worthless-- to the point we could have completed the dungeon with a Summoner or Black Mage using Physic. In what capacity is that not a carry? The requirements are irrelevant as that only factors your allowance into the dungeon, not their contribution to its completion. That's the equivalent of saying a ilvl 255 Monk doing 1,000 DPS in A12 Savage isn't be carried when the other DPS are pulling 2,000+ because "he met the ilvl."

How are those extremes? A healer refusing to DPS is playing subpar. Insisting they are allowed to omit a third of their abilities because "it's my playstyle" is no different than a Black Mage roleplaying as an Ice Mage. Both are willfully gimping themselves and expecting the party their assigned with to just happily go along with it. In fact, if we glance back to OP, she admitted its her choice to not DPS. Therefore, she is telling me "I won't contribute even half of what you will because I'm choosing not to." That is her forcing her playstyle onto me since my preference to have a fast and smooth run is no longer possible. If three other people want a faster run, why should you get to dedicate otherwise? Once again, you also have the option to run with friends, but I am not going to let you idle for 80% of a dungeon because you don't feel like doing more than occasionally casting Cure.

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This is entirely SE's fault. Not the fault of the player. If instances are so poorly tuned that a specific role required for that instance isn't even needed to complete it than SE needs to go back to the drawing board and tighten things up...a lot.

And a healer not dpsing is not forcing their slow playstyle on you. Not in a Duty Finder group with random players. The duty finder is there to accommodate those without friends to run with and those who fall under the lowest common denominator category of players. It's there for the sake of convenience. You're runs via Duty Finder may not be the fastest or best ever. Heck, they may be downright terrible in your opinion. But at least you got into your dungeon and had a shot to complete it. And if you are using the Duty Finder in the first place that's a shot you otherwise would not have had.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

just because you do more doesn't mean you are they aren't pulling their wait. wanting a faster run doesn't = the standard.

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Still doesn't mean they aren't benefiting from others' hard work and having to cover for them...

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

actually people who don't play well enough to someones extreme standards they get kicked if someone who plays well doesn't get kicked by a group who doesn't.
that is why i say play with your friends one side hurts the other while the other doesn't.

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Well duh. What kind of person would kick someone doing more work then they are out of a group? Where's the gain in shooting themselves in the foot?
This statement also doesn't disprove my suggesting they you lot should just go with friends/look for a group in PF.
And I agree, your side does hurt the other. :-D

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Highlander what the heck. That's so gross.. *initiates vote kick*

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Highlanders do have the one good face going for them... >w>

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

This statement also doesn't disprove my suggesting they you lot should just go with friends/look for a group in PF.

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it does when one side says change your ways or stop playing and the other side lets them play as they like.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

it does when one side says change your ways or stop playing and the other side lets them play as they like.

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Such is life.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

it does when one side says change your ways or stop playing and the other side lets them play as they like.

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No it doesn't because, hopefully, a friend wouldn't tell you to change your ways or stop playing (unless you're doing that badly or are doing something unhealthy).
As for getting people from the PF, well, they agreed to come with you, so they can't really complain because they chose to come... Plus, you can leave a dungeon if it was in a pre-made group without getting a penalty, so they don't have too much to worry about. :D

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

No it doesn't because, hopefully, a friend wouldn't tell you to change your ways or stop playing (unless you're doing that badly or are doing something unhealthy).
As for getting people from the PF, well, they agreed to come with you, so they can't really complain because they chose to come...

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but you can complain in DF because its for the best only? seriously? you are shunning a large group of people because they won't dps on a healer? because they dont do a perfect rotation in every easy dungeon they do? how can you even say that is ok?