Repair NPCs in Dungeons

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Originally Posted by Adire

Just like not liking waiting for buffs to reset on wipe is laziness and entitlement right?

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Irrelevant. That is an understandable request, and I would support it.

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Originally Posted by Adire

And again. People forget. . Deserving to be screwed over because I forget is like saying a blind person deserves to be hit by a car because they didn't see it.

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I edited the post to factor in "people forget" I'll just reply to you directly since you posted afterwards.

Human errors, human mistakes, and "people forget" are not excuses. This game is very unforgiving against human mistakes. Have you even done any extreme trials? Alexander savage? Bahamut coils? If you make any mistakes there, it costs you and the whole party. Why should this be any different? even in regular dungeons, if one person make enough mistakes, it screws everyone over.

Comparing "Blind person deserves to be hit by a car" is like comparing apples to oranges. That doesn't even work. That doesn't even make sense to compare.

Blind people can't help themselves to be blind, no one's going to hold them at fault for something that they can't help. Blind is a disability, failure to repair your gears, however, is not.

You can, however, can help yourself to check to make sure that your gears are repaired before you go in.

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Originally Posted by Adire

And no. It doesn't just suck to be me. If I happen to be the tank or healer particularly, it sucks to be anyone in the entire group.

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Actually, it does suck to the entire group, and guess who's fault is that? The very person that failed to check or repair their gears before they got in. Hell even my FC ask EVERYONE, regularly, to check the gears before we do any raids. That's common sense.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Hopefully one day I'll forget to repair and end up tanking for you.

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This just reflects on you as a responsible player than anything else. But yeah stick it to the man!

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Not all items available on GC turn ins are available from NPC's, and those are NQ. So when you do NQ, it gives, what, 1/8th a bar instead of 1/4th (For non-bonus)? So let's say 8 months doing it that way to get your crafters up. Not a very good/effective method of expecting people to reach 60 with all crafts. People are more likely to quit before that amount of time passes in a themepark game like this.

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Newsflash :3 You only need your crafters to level 50 in order to repair level 60 gear, and you don't need all crafting professions if you don't intend to actually craft stuff. Sure, if you want to be able to meld stuff yourself, you'd need to get the relevant crafts to 60, but not for repairs. The road from 1 to 50 is a lot shorter than 1 to 60, potentially even shorter than 50-60. For me personally, it took quite a long time, but then again I didn't pay attention to it every day, and if stuff was too expensive on the MB I left it alone and hoped for a better hand-in the next day.

Also, not all stuff on the MB are from crafters. Some are stuff retainers brought back. And some of them sell for a lot less than you'd pay a vendor. And don't forget the Ixali quests, which add a fair bit of exp in addition to the GC hand-ins (and again, can be done through only the hand-in quest if you don't want to gear up to actually craft the items). And you can do leves, especially if you have a crafter friend who's willing to craft the stuff for you, either for free or if you bring them the mats.

It's not a salespitch. It's just several people trying to give advice on how to level crafting classes without needing to actually craft. Time or money or effort is pretty much the cost. Since "effort" was discarded pretty much from the get-go ("I don't like crafting!"), the amount of "time" or "money" is going to have to go up.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

This idea would be great, but then they have to remember to take up an inventory slot with Dark Matter, AND Hope that they are going to have someone in the dungoun that can repair their gear... Instead of doing this, it'd be better to just add an NPC.

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...Or, you know, remember to repair before going in. It's not really that difficult to have a slot dedicated to grade 6 Dark Matter, stocking up on it when you notice you're beginning to run low.

To be honest, this suggestion is sounding a lot like, "I can't remember the rules of the game, so we need to change the rules to make it easier for me to play the game." If you can't remember to repair before going into a dungeon, and can't be bothered to level up crafters to be able to self-repair wherever you are -- and if you have, can't remember to bring the necessary item to do so (dark matter)... I'm starting to think that maybe it's not the game's fault. (General 'you' in this paragraph, not any specific person.)

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Originally Posted by Adire

The lore argument is BS. We have a lot more crazy things going around in the game now. Flying turtles, FF13 characters, etc. Random generic traveling mender NPCs with guards sitting at the entrance would work just fine. Unless you can explain how exactly that violates the lore bible, while flying turtles and dimension traveling FF13 characters don't?

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How is the Lightning lore surprising to you? The whole storyline is based on "lifestream" and "aether," is it really that surprising that a character managed to travel through that? Not to mention it was quite obviously a promotional event and had to somehow be linked with FFXIV. Flying turtles also have absolutely nothing to do with it unless you can find me a source of why this counteracts Eorzean lore.

Some dungeons are supposedly "abandoned" or "we're the only adventurers strong enough/brave enough to go into." Can you imagine a traveling merchant sitting at the entrance of Bahamut? It just doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Comparing "Blind person deserves to be hit by a car" is like comparing apples to oranges. That doesn't even work. That doesn't even make sense to compare.

Blind people can't help themselves to be blind, no one's going to hold them at fault for something that they can't help. Blind is a disability, failure to repair your gears, however, is not.

You can, however, can help yourself to check to make sure that your gears are repaired before you go in.

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Actually, it is a good comparison. Because being blind is not a conscious choice, and forgetting or being a forgetful person is not a conscious choice. There are actually many reasons and many actual disabilities that can cause people can have memory problems, and those reasons are never conscious choices to have it.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

How is the Lightning lore surprising to you? The whole storyline is based on "lifestream" and "aether," is it really that surprising that a character managed to travel through that? Not to mention it was quite obviously a promotional event and had to somehow be linked with FFXIV. Flying turtles also have absolutely nothing to do with it unless you can find me a source of why this counteracts Eorzean lore.

Some dungeons are supposedly "abandoned" or "we're the only adventurers strong enough/brave enough to go into." Can you imagine a traveling merchant sitting at the entrance of Bahamut? It just doesn't work.

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That's the thing, it's not surprising to me. There are very off the wall things going on in this game. That's why something as practical as an NPC going into a dungeon is completely believable.

"Abandoned" means no one lives in them pretty much. It does not mean expeditions do not happen into them. Also, merchants =/= adventurers, so they would not apply to this "we're the only adventurers strong enough" thing. I don't recall seeing anywhere that says there's absolutely no way anyone but the WoL can get into most dungeons anyways.

Someone posted a collection of dungeons and explanations for how NPCs could fit into them a few pages, assuming the idea of NPCs tagging along with a party of borderline immortals truly is too much for lore enthusiasts to bear.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Hopefully one day I'll forget to repair and end up tanking for you, or someone else will, when you don't have a replacement to call in.

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Wow. Purposely act irresponsible and become a burden to the entire party just to spite me? That really shows a lot about you.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Actually, it is a good comparison. Because being blind is not a conscious choice, and forgetting or being a forgetful person is not a conscious choice. There are actually many reasons and many actual disabilities that can cause people can have memory problems, and those reasons are never conscious choices to have it.

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Comparing people with disabilities to you not remembering to check your gear on an online game is very rude and unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Actually, it is a good comparison. Because being blind is not a conscious choice, and forgetting or being a forgetful person is not a conscious choice. There are actually many reasons and many actual disabilities that can cause people can have memory problems, and those reasons are never conscious choices to have it.

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Uh.... Being blind gives you severe limitations, even in life.

However, repairing your gears, (or failure to do so) is not even a handicap, and there's many ways to fix it, such as (but not limited to): Post it notes, electronic reminders (Cellphone, computer, smartwatch, etc.). Having your friends remind you. Or level all crafts to 50. YES 50, NOT 60! It's not even THAT hard (or expensive) at this point in the game.

Point is, this is an unnecessary change, and I'd rather SE spend time fixing more urgent issue, than cater to people that can't be bothered to spend a few seconds to repair their gears before dungeons.

Repair NPC in dungeons is not an urgent issue.

Allowing players to meld any gears they want regardless of craft levels is not an urgent issue.



...And for god's sakes, You're still comparing blind people to an in-game issue? That's just incredibly rude of you and I'm almost offended because I 'm actually deaf.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Wow. Purposely act irresponsible and become a burden to the entire party just to spite me? That really shows a lot about you.

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Way to not read context. I never said I'd purposely do it. There's no way I could even purposely do it since I don't know who I'm going to end up with in a group. Use common sense.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Comparing people with disabilities to you not remembering to check your gear on an online game is very rude and unnecessary.

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Who says memory loss doesn't happen as a result of disabilities?

Also, the pages and pages of people gloating to me about how they never forget is also quite rude and unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Point is, this is an unnecessary change, and I'd rather SE spend time fixing more urgent issue, than cater to people that can't be bothered to spend a few seconds to repair their gears before dungeons.

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I highly doubt this change would require a lot of time on SE's part. But I understand change and emulating other MMOs' good choices isn't really welcomed around here, so I know I'm fighting an uphill battle.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

...And for god's sakes, You're still comparing blind people to an in-game issue? That's just incredibly rude of you and I'm almost offended because I 'm actually deaf.

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And for god's sake, you're still insisting that my forgetfulness and not always remembering to repair is my own fault and gloating about how it's not a problem you have. You've been offending me since your first post here, I actually have memory issues

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Originally Posted by Adire

Someone posted a collection of dungeons and explanations for how NPCs could fit into them a few pages, assuming the idea of NPCs tagging along with a party of borderline immortals truly is too much for lore enthusiasts to bear.

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Again, imagine one of these NPC's in T13? Where would it even go? On a platform SE would have to create and insert into an already implemented dungeon?

And again, stop using disabilities as an excuse to enforce your argument. If a disability causes someone to forget to repair their gear that much that they need a mender inside a dungeon, how are they going to remember fights in the first place? Unless they have some sort of selective memory?

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Newsflash :3 You only need your crafters to level 50 in order to repair level 60 gear, and you don't need all crafting professions if you don't intend to actually craft stuff. Sure, if you want to be able to meld stuff yourself, you'd need to get the relevant crafts to 60, but not for repairs. The road from 1 to 50 is a lot shorter than 1 to 60, potentially even shorter than 50-60. For me personally, it took quite a long time, but then again I didn't pay attention to it every day, and if stuff was too expensive on the MB I left it alone and hoped for a better hand-in the next day.

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Good job completely ingoirng one of the major points: The time investment for the most casual of players.



Let's say they take your advice, and do vendors/etc instead of buying from the MB. Those items are gonna be NQ. Vendors don't sell HQ, the exception being the recent Eso mats and level 60 Favor mats.

Now, each GC turn in, is the equivelent of 1/4th of a level. An HQ turn in with bonus is wroth about a level (this is IIRC from doing this same thing myself.)

So, doing it as HQ via MB: 50 days (Funny you think that saving 10 days is the big deciding factor, when it's still near-2 MONTHS to do this.)
Doing it NQ via Whatever: 200 days ( Nearly a year, again, my major point is that casual players won't want to do this.)

So, congratulations, your point is still completely invalid because it's not an effective strategy for anyone. And it leaves people who are trying to build their characters up for the next half a year at the mercy of their own potential forgetfulness, so it solves nothing.

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Also, not all stuff on the MB are from crafters. Some are stuff retainers brought back. And some of them sell for a lot less than you'd pay a vendor. And don't forget the Ixali quests, which add a fair bit of exp in addition to the GC hand-ins (and again, can be done through only the hand-in quest if you don't want to gear up to actually craft the items). And you can do leves, especially if you have a crafter friend who's willing to craft the stuff for you, either for free or if you bring them the mats.

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Not all stuff is on MB, but all things for turn ins can be made by crafters. This is why the majority of the ones that are HQ will likely have been made by the hands of a crafter.

Building a levekit also is a limited means method; you can do one roughly every... You get 12 levels a day, so I wanna say that's 5 levels a day, but that (unlike GC) is extremely limited (Particularly to one Tradeskill at a time.)

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It's not a salespitch. It's just several people trying to give advice on how to level crafting classes without needing to actually craft. Time or money or effort is pretty much the cost. Since "effort" was discarded pretty much from the get-go ("I don't like crafting!"), the amount of "time" or "money" is going to have to go up.

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Someone spending money on repairs should be the investment, not money into the Marketboard, and not money into anything else. If someone would prefer to use the gil they make from fighting to repair their gear made from fighting, that should be their choice - and having contingencies for mistakes that can come up in dungouns (Such as not remember to repair beforehand) helps protect the whole party.

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...Or, you know, remember to repair before going in. It's not really that difficult to have a slot dedicated to grade 6 Dark Matter, stocking up on it when you notice you're beginning to run low.

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This is great foresight and hindsight, but in the cold light of revelation that your tank just lost half his HP because his crap broke and he's now tanking with what amounts to his base stats, it's very little consolation for a party that finds themselves in this scenario.

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To be honest, this suggestion is sounding a lot like, "I can't remember the rules of the game, so we need to change the rules to make it easier for me to play the game." If you can't remember to repair before going into a dungeon, and can't be bothered to level up crafters to be able to self-repair wherever you are -- and if you have, can't remember to bring the necessary item to do so (dark matter)... I'm starting to think that maybe it's not the game's fault. (General 'you' in this paragraph, not any specific person.)

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No, this is a "People are human and make mistakes. LEt's give them a way to fix it so that they won't wind up screwing over 3 other people, wheather that person is me or someone else."

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Again, imagine one of these NPC's in T13? Where would it even go? On a platform SE would have to create and insert into an already implemented dungeon?

And again, stop using disabilities as an excuse to enforce your argument. If a disability causes someone to forget to repair their gear that much that they need a mender inside a dungeon, how are they going to remember fights in the first place? Unless they have some sort of selective memory?

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This is a scenario I would concede, and is a reason why I've specified that it would be for dungouns, not raids. I can respect not doing it in raids, because if you're going into a raid, that's part of raid prep. Dungouns, however, are casual content. Raids, unfortunately, would require such a streatch (Especially, as cited, on Bahamut, outside of a Hydalen-type crystal that repairs, but even that's a bit of a streatch for me to say) in order to make an actuality. I dislike it.

But for dungouns? It's very easy to add, lore wise.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Way to not read context. I never said I'd purposely do it. There's no way I could even purposely do it since I don't know who I'm going to end up with in a group. Use common sense.

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Oh for.. Hell, if it's even a tank, they could just disband (Or we could vote kick) and they repair, and then re-queue by doing "Join a duty in progress" it doesn't change the fact that the mistake is on them, and not on anyone else. It's a responsibility.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Who says memory loss doesn't happen as a result of disabilities?

Also, the pages and pages of people gloating to me about how they never forget is also quite rude and unnecessary.

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Memory loss can be a disability, which is why there's numerous ways to overcome that, which I suggested earlier.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I highly doubt this change would require a lot of time on SE's part. But I understand change and emulating other MMOs' good choices isn't really welcomed around here, so I know I'm fighting an uphill battle.

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Have you even done programming? sometimes even the simple request could be extremely complicated.

It's probably why we can't even repair other people's stuff, like we used to in 1.0. I said it before, I'll say it again, I would wholeheartedly welcome the ability to repair other people's gears.

You know what I'll even welcome a "repair kit" items to repair your shit anytime, anywhere rather than Menders in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Adire

And for god's sake, you're still insisting that my forgetfulness and not always remembering to repair is my own fault and gloating about how it's not a problem you have. You've been offending me since your first post here, I actually have memory issues

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Why does one of your main defenses rely so heavily on you forgetfulness? Maybe you need to work on that and try to be more conscious of your gear. People have given you options of how to overcome your issues but you seem to reject them all and still think adding a NPC to dungeon is the only solution.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Who says memory loss doesn't happen as a result of disabilities?

Also, the pages and pages of people gloating to me about how they never forget is also quite rude and unnecessary.

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I'd like to point out that I have disabilities that bring with them a very flawed mid-term memory (as well as short-term memory, in case I forget *cough* to take my medication). I've had moments in games when I've been grinding for a particular monster drop. I go into the menu to check how many I have. "Ok, 13, need 7 more." Exit the menu, take five steps, pause. "Err... How many did I have again?" Repeat six or seven times before I either give up, use my flatmate to help me remember, or realize I haven't taken my medicine that day.

Do I forget to repair? Yes, it has happened. But thanks to me also being an equipment hoarder (like you mentioned you are), there's almost always something else I can put on. So what if it's 50 ilvls lower. It's better than a broken item, no? So what if it's a DEX accessory instead of a VIT? It's still got some relevant secondary stats.
Self-repairs was one of the best things that was added (restored?) to this game, and the whole not needing to change to your crafter class to do so. Nowadays, I'm almost paranoid about my gear on my main, repairing them as soon as I see the bar no longer being full (i.e. durability's slipped below 100%). It's horrible to log onto an alt who can't do self-repairs, and running around with my gear at 40% makes me feel like they're already broken.

And should I forget to repair... guess what, that's my fault. For not being careful enough when I know I have issues with remembering things unless I think about them or manage to turn them from conscious decisions into habits. Disabilities don't automatically mean you don't need to make an effort. To continue your crass comparison with a blind person... A blind person wouldn't really go out into traffic without any aids, whether that be a cane or a dog, or even a human assistant. Likewise if you have a disability that brings with it a flawed memory, you kind of have a responsibility to do your best to compensate for it. Does it work all the time? No, of course not. That's when you try to find other methods that work more reliably.

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Originally Posted by Adire

And for god's sake, you're still insisting that my forgetfulness and not always remembering to repair is my own fault and gloating about how it's not a problem you have. You've been offending me since your first post here, I actually have memory issues

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Never did gloated. In fact, in the past, especially in 1.0 I've had problems with forgetting to repair my stuff every now and then, and I overcame this by carrying an extra weapons. (since back then if your weapon brokes you couldn't do shit) 1.0 was just completely terrible because I didn't have my gears repaired. When they introduced the whole "set up request flag to repair your gears" it became so much more helpful. All I had to do was to stand around in Ul'dah, and someone would repair my stuff within 5 minutes.

In 2.0, I overcame this by leveling my crafts, and when SE introduced the whole "repair your stuff even when you're not on your crafting job" was a god send, meaning I can actually repair my stuff in dungeons and trials, and anytime and anywhere, as long as I had the dark matters.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Memory loss can be a disability, which is why there's numerous ways to overcome that, which I suggested earlier.
Have you even done programming? sometimes even the simple request could be extremely complicated.
It's probably why we can't even repair other people's stuff, like we used to in 1.0. I said it before, I'll say it again, I would wholeheartedly welcome the ability to repair other people's gears.

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I don't use a cell phone, I don't queue with friends, and I'm not going to clutter my PC with post it notes as if this game is some kind of job. I usually have my stuff repaired anyways, I don't forget often enough to justify doing that. The entire event that triggered this post was someone else forgetting and costing our group 30 minutes of our lives, not me forgetting.

And yes, I have programmed. But it doesn't take a programmer to realize that this would be easier to do than some of the much more unimportant things SE does already with every patch. If something this simple is a big workload for their programmers, then they may need new programmers.

I'm pretty convinced that we don't have this or what you're suggesting because QoL improvements have never been high on SE's to do list. I could list for pages the number of annoying things in the game that need to be improved, from the buff reset thing I mentioned earlier to not being able to do anything with 1 menu open.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Why does one of your main defenses rely so heavily on you forgetfulness? Maybe you need to work on that and try to be more conscious of your gear. People have given you options of how to overcome your issues but you seem to reject them all and still think adding a NPC to dungeon is the only solution.

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Why do your posts have to constantly remind me that you know more about my forgetfulness than I do? As mentioned above, it's not even just about my own forgetfulness. The event that triggered this topic for me is someone else's forgetfulness, not my own.

I never said it's the only solution, I've simply said it's something I would appreciate having as I greatly appreciated having it in my previous MMO.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Oh for.. Hell, if it's even a tank, they could just disband (Or we could vote kick) and they repair, and then re-queue by doing "Join a duty in progress" it doesn't change the fact that the mistake is on them, and not on anyone else. It's a responsibility.

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Wrong! Tanks are no longer allowed to Join in Progress anymore, thus they are effectively removed from the duty and you just have to hope to get a new one :)

Editted for correctness: Players are not allowed to Join in progress* after being kicked.

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It's probably why we can't even repair other people's stuff, like we used to in 1.0. I said it before, I'll say it again, I would wholeheartedly welcome the ability to repair other people's gears.

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That'd be cool with me, but they should make it two pronged: Don't give just crafters benefits. Add the NPC and add the ability to repair eachother's gear, and when you get it from another player, allow it to go over 100% (thus making it more desirable than an NPC.)


Forgive me for only quoting two parts, I don't disagre with the middle. I feel, however, that SE is skilled enough to program. "It's too hard" shouldn't be ar eason we as consume accept.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Wrong! Tanks are no longer allowed to Join in Progress anymore, thus they are effectively removed from the duty and you just have to hope to get a new one :)

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Welp. Guess they'll have to make sure their stuff is repaired fully next time so this awkward situation doesn't happen again.

http://i.imgur.com/0Li6d5O.png

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Originally Posted by Adire

Why do your posts have to constantly remind me that you know more about my forgetfulness than I do?

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Because large majority of your posts use that as a reason why your request should be added.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Because large majority of your posts use that as a reason why your request should be added.

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Because it is a reason, but as much because other people forget as it is that I forget.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Welp. Guess they'll have to make sure their stuff is repaired fully next time so this awkward situation doesn't happen again.

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Welp. Guess SE could just add it instead of people trying to argue against it. After all, it lets me be lazy at my job. Which is a lot of work, according to you.

http://i.imgur.com/0Li6d5O.png

I give my gils to my retainers and I use free teleportation thingies.
So, what if I forget to take my gils with me to repair after entering the dungeon? I mean, forgetting something is human, right? It's not my fault.

You might say that I'm pushing it a bit too far... but am I, really? Compared to someone who forgets so often that he/she require an NPC in every dungeon of this game, warping the lore to fits his/her needs.
I don't really think so. Both are completly absurd.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Because it is a reason, but as much because other people forget as it is that I forget.

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Then learn from your mistakes and take steps to avoid it from happening next time instead of relying on SE to fix it for you. If you are aware that you forget (this goes for anyone) surely you'd be more conscious of it happening? You don't get hit by a car and forget to look both ways again.

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Originally Posted by Adire

And yes, I have programmed. But it doesn't take a programmer to realize that this would be easier to do than some of the much more unimportant things SE does already with every patch. If something this simple is a big workload for their programmers, then they may need new programmers.

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Thing is, SE is very weird with how their programming, and their spaghetti code is known to be legendary. For example, in one of the FFXI updates that had NOTHING to do with undeads or healers, an update created a bug that would cause the spell of "Cure 1" to do 99999 damage on any undead.

...and I just couldn't help but take advantage of the fun time, I went on my scholar, and went to Gustav's tunnel, to this spot that had a lot of high leveled skeletons:

http://i.imgur.com/46rCeeY.png

...Needless to say, they quickly ran an emergency maintenance like 30 minutes after the maintenance.



And like I said, I'd rather SE add the ability to repair other people's gears instead of adding Menders in dungeons. We used to have this in 1.0, so why can't we have this again already.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Then learn from your mistakes and take steps to avoid it from happening next time instead of relying on SE to fix it for you. If you are aware that you forget (this goes for anyone) surely you'd be more conscious of it happening? You don't get hit by a car and forget to look both ways again.

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If they added something like this, which would take minimal effort and hurt the game in no noticeable way, it would never be a problem for anyone again, regardless of how forgetful a person is.

What's so bad about that.....?

Why, when we have so many off the wall things already in the lore, is it too much to ask that we get a way for non-crafters to independently repair their gear inside dungeons so that no one has to deal with having to bail or having to deal with bailers anymore?

Why are we defending the deprivation of directly combat related convenience for combat players as the only way to maintain crafting's benefits?

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

And like I said, I'd rather SE add the ability to repair other people's gears instead of adding Menders in dungeons. We used to have this in 1.0, so why can't we have this again already.

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Why not both?

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Why not both?

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Because one makes more sense than the other. It's more logical being able to repair other people's gears, instead of Menders standing at the entrance of one of the most dangerous places in the world for your convenience.

And if they do, I REALLY hope they overcharge the hell out of you.

"Okay. I risked my life for YOU, so I'm going to make you pay 50,000 an item to repair your shites!"

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Originally Posted by Adire

If they added something like this, which would take minimal effort and hurt the game in no noticeable way, it would never be a problem for anyone again, regardless of how forgetful a person is.

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You have absolutely no idea how much effort this would take. There are 40+ dungeons in FFXIV and that's not counting raids, trials, and PvP. Even if we were to look past the lore argument, unless you work for SE you can't throw around "minimal effort" as a way to support your argument.

Again, not noticeable to you. I assure you a lot of people would find menders in certain dungeons very odd. Most of your posts are very opinionated in favour of your own argument or how you have memory issues instead of providing actual counter arguments.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Because one makes more sense than the other. It's more logical being able to repair other people's gears, instead of Menders standing at the entrance of one of the most dangerous places in the world for your convenience.

And if they do, I REALLY hope they overcharge the hell out of you.

"Okay. I risked my life for YOU, so I'm going to make you pay 50,000 an item to repair your shites!"

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"I want them to overcharge because of spite, not because of an actual reason."


I honestly can't tell how far I can respect you on this. YOu make some admirable points, but when an equally valid point appears, you are quickly shutting down.

"One makes more sense than the other" how? Right now, dungouns are programmed to prevent trading and melding. Effectively, your suggestion, which you argued would be a 'potential programming nightmare', is just as likely to be smacked down by the same logic due to the fact that you have to change the very nature in which the game works while in dungouns (ability to trade/meld/and addition to repair being removed.)

Menders, in terms of the lore, are not always non-combatants. There are plenty of cases where they are NPC's capable of combat. And as said, for some scenarios, they are very likely to be there (As I poitned out with, say, Lost city of Amdapor, having a small group dispatched would've easily been made possible.)

Heck, I'm sure if SE really wanted to, they could write up a BS hydalen crystal. Or do you expect Echo to make sense in dungouns to? Should we remove that because it doesn't make sense? Lore is writable by the writers. They just need to create it.

Also, Adire, what I don't like is that you're using a disability for why you need help. There's a lot of people that have memory issues, and they overcame with with their own personal methods, without having any extra help.

I feel you should be punished for forgetting to repair. You can't expect the game to always hold your hand.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

"I want them to overcharge because of spite, not because of an actual reason."

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Because no merchants and mender in their right mind would go to somewhere very dangerous just for you. Also, remember that a lot of dungeons have guards that prevent people from going in.

for example, Haukke Manor hard mode, they see a wood wailer being captured and corrupted into a succubus or demons.

Mender: "... Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope! Going back to fuckthatdania!" *runs away!*


I honestly can't tell how far I can respect you on this. YOu make some admirable points, but when an equally valid point appears, you are quickly shutting down.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

"One makes more sense than the other" how? Right now, dungouns are programmed to prevent trading and melding. Effectively, your suggestion, which you argued would be a 'potential programming nightmare', is just as likely to be smacked down by the same logic due to the fact that you have to change the very nature in which the game works while in dungouns (ability to trade/meld/and addition to repair being removed.)

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There's a LOT of dungeons out there that's already been made. The first step is creating NPC for every single one of these old dungeons, and how they're going to do about it. Remember, lore wise, for half of these dungeons "one does not simply walk into it." Examples being, Pharos Sirius hard mode, The Aery, etc. SE needs to be able to explain that as well.

My main point is, I feel that this is unnecessary when it's already easy enough to get your stuff repaired through multiple means. I'd rather SE put more focus on more urgent issues than this.

Why does it make more sense for players to repair other gears than plop menders into dungeons? Because many players are also accomplished craftsperson, and know how to repair stuff, and would be more than happy to help you.

Yes, dungeons are programmed to prevent trading (obviously for good reasons) and melding (for meh reason, now that we can meld regardless of classes), however, we can still repair our own gears (if you leveled enough crafts to 50). In fact, I can even repair my stuff in the middle of battle (and I've done this far too many times lol). So why not at least give us ability to repair other player's gears in dungeon.

It's a more sensible fix than menders in dungeons, and they don't have to edit every past dungeons to do so.

Honestly if they do add merchants I believe they should charge more than the ones outside dungeons.

Even as far as double or triple the cost the other ones ask for.

I think I'm just going to call it.

I have yet to see a convincing reason for why we shouldn't have this. All I'm getting is "you're just lazy", it would break the lore (despite there being far more ludicrous things already in the game), and it would break crafting, repeated over and over again, and people being patronizing. I'm only getting more and more annoyed, it's clear the forums will have none of this suggestion (can't say I'm surprised), so I don't see a reason for me to continue posting in this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, when lore is used as a reason to deprive players of harmless convenience, lore may have a problem. And I'm not convinced the lore actually forbids merchants being in dungeons, especially with some of the other things going on in this game. It was not uncommon to see merchants even in real life travel to dangerous areas with armed guards in order to make a profit, so I can't buy this lore reason.

When crafting is only viable because it doesn't have to suffer from a COMBAT detriment that COMBAT players have to suffer, crafting may have a problem.

We will never agree apparently, so I will take my leave from this "discussion" and refrain from suggesting anything on these forums in the future.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

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Lore isn't the only reason. This is n MMORPG. There's RPG in it, which means Role Playing Game.
I'm not asking you to roleplay everything you do, but to respect some gameplay aspects which forces you to have that line of thinking: "I am the Warrior of Light, and I am about to enter some dangerous place. I should make sure that I'm ready."

You may not realize it, but quite a lot of people actually like this little ritual of preparing everything before entering a dungeon. You check your food, your potions, you manage your inventory to have spare room... and your equipement before hitting that button.

Everytime you ask for something which makes that preparation more and more irrelevant, you take some of that roleplaying element away.
Some changes will help the overall quality of life you have while playing that game, but some will actually hurt its fundamentals. NPC Repair in dungeon is one of the latter category.

Edit: This is also an answer for OP.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I have yet to see a convincing reason for why we shouldn't have this.

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No, you just don't want to see them.
You want something you see fit in this game, others disagree and don't think it'd fit and/or have a detrimental aspect to it superior to the benefits it'd bring.
Their negative opinions on it are as valid as the reason you want it to happen. It's mostly subjective, even if you think it'd be an objective good thing for everyone, it's not.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Oh yes, way more con's when you're incredibly bias. LEt's take a look at a more objective view.



"Loss of DoH Perk" is completrely inaccurate, take that one out. It's not a loss to their perk. They still get the perk of being able to do it anywhere, cheaper, at any time (Even in combat), and at a higher percentage than those without..


"Story Breaking" as I already pointed out, this isn't the case at all. There's plenty of cases where it could make plenty of sense. Using NPC's, it can be used to build lore, rather than take away from it.

"Requires as much walking as to a normal NPC", except for the fact that it's very possible to be out in the field questing when you get your duty pop. Or it might just be that you die too much in a duty (It happens, some of us don't give up on two deaths), or it might just be that you entered at 11% and didn't check. Happens when you're doing questing every day.

"Promotes Lazyness" I can counter this by saying that not adding it promotes underperforming if your gear breaks and you're performing at 50% of your potential.

"Promotes not checking gear" Probably the only point that holds weight, though it's moreso about giving a contingency in the case that someone forgets.

"Promotes more DoH killing ideas in the future" is just a simple slippery sloap arguement. I could argue that it promotes better QoL improvements in the future.

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Okay, let's go down the list.

Anyone will be able to repair anywhere with this. Your gear broke out in the world? Queue solo into a dungeon, repair, leave. Not even a penalty. And they can't hide it behind monsters, because not only will people just do lower ones, but then you'll get the, "Why over there my gear was 0% on entry" requests. Therefor, perk removed. Not only that, it's cheap to repair anyways. The only perk that stays is over 100%, but even then why have it up so high if you can just repair at any time by just using DF?

If you want to tell me why that guard is standing there to repair your gear completely randomly in the dungeon instead of helping you out doesn't raise any eyebrows, I'd love to hear it.

Two deaths barely hits your gear. If you're doing from fully repaired to broken in 2 deaths, I want to know what you're doing because clearly it's not the deaths. I don't have DoH to repair. I can take 20+ deaths without breaking my accessories, forget armor.

If you're going to say that underperforming if not is the reason, then they weren't going to perform up anyways. Obviously, they can't just press a key to see their equipment.

My point of gear checking is I've had people go in with gear not knowing they had certain things on (Like a roleplay set.) It just slows things down. Hell, even I managed to go in with Ilvl 90 daggers instead of 210 on NIN on expert and nobody even noticed until we ended because stuff still died super fast.

How does it promote QoL? "Oh now anyone can repair anywhere now lol." There are people saying we shouldn't need DoH for any melding. I've even seen people claim we shouldn't need someone to craft the new gear to get it, and that we should just be rewarded it. With every single thing you remove that DoH has as a good advantage, it becomes less popular. In fact, this will promote more perks being removed. If this passed and the melding didn't, then there'd be complaints until it happened. Then if that passed, why do we have to have them craft it? Before you know it, DoH is a joke in every way.

But if you REALLY want me to put more cons, then here. Horrible groups don't break after someone never repaired. gear will be fixed, so they could put effort (unlikely) to doing what they need to do correctly. You won't need to level DoH to repair items.

And repeat on this con. It hurts DoH. There is no but on it. It. Hurts. DoH.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I think I'm just going to call it.

I have yet to see a convincing reason for why we shouldn't have this. All I'm getting is "you're just lazy", it would break the lore (despite there being far more ludicrous things already in the game), and it would break crafting, repeated over and over again, and people being patronizing. I'm only getting more and more annoyed, it's clear the forums will have none of this suggestion (can't say I'm surprised), so I don't see a reason for me to continue posting in this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, when lore is used as a reason to deprive players of harmless convenience, lore may have a problem. And I'm not convinced the lore actually forbids merchants being in dungeons, especially with some of the other things going on in this game. It was not uncommon to see merchants even in real life travel to dangerous areas with armed guards in order to make a profit, so I can't buy this lore reason.

When crafting is only viable because it doesn't have to suffer from a COMBAT detriment that COMBAT players have to suffer, crafting may have a problem.

We will never agree apparently, so I will take my leave from this "discussion" and refrain from suggesting anything on these forums in the future.

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Maybe those points keep being thrown at you because they're legit problems? You should be able to keep an eye on your gear as someone that does COMBAT as your preferred way. The point is that combat players and DoH players work together. You can supply the items, and they can make it. They can repair it. They can fix it and make you stronger. Why should they lose benefit because you don't want to literally press the c key to see your gear is breaking and that maybe you should go talk to a repair guy.

If you're damaging full to queue pop, you're doing something wrong. So wrong in fact, that I think you wouldn't be much help in the dungeon anyways.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Maybe you should have done a triple take, since I haven't even insinuated that I'm "too important" to repair outside dungeons. I've said many times now that I forget sometimes as I am a flawed, human being. If we're going to insult people just to insult people without any foundation though, I'm not going to respond to you anymore.

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Actually, yeah your original post and this entire concept rests on you, specifically, wanting all dungeons in the game changed for your convenience. You are ignoring all points about self repair and how this takes away one perk exclusive to DoH.You ignore the obvious logical difficulties with some random repair NPC showing up in a dungeon, a dangerous place that only we adventurers dare enter. So yeah, you are implying that all this needs to be ignored for your convenience because you can't remember the check your gear.

Except, I don't buy that "I can't remember" thing at all, I have severe ADD, I get distracted by just about anything that happens when I try to concentrate, a co-worker once called it butterfly syndrome.... Even so, I remember to repair because every time I complete a dungeon or trial, I repair. Every time I see a mender, I repair. Take responsibility for yourself rather than demanding that your needs are put ahead of others - which by the way totally implies/suggests you consider yourself too important to change your habits to cope with the situation, and want SE to take that responsibility instead.

So, yes, you apparently think you are too important to have to deal with this yourself. I'm not dismissing your failing memory, but if you can remember a dungeon layout and skill rotation, I see no reason to suppose you can't find a way of remembering to repair.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Next up.

Retainer bells in dungeons because I forgot to equip my gear.

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Next up.

Market Board in dungeon because I forgot to buy food

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

You realise a ludicrous thing being in the game doesn't necessarily mean it's breaking the lore right? Breaking the lore means counteracting something that's already in place, which is what the NPC's would be doing. They could literally create a new area and add a blue and pink flying giraffe and it wouldn't be breaking lore. Adding random NPC's to already implemented dungeons with their own history is completely different and would be breaking the lore that has already been introduced.

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The point is that the places have already been marked as so dangerous that only the adventurers are brave (or stupid) enough to enter such a place. Have you wondered why the grand companies don't solve them themselves and instead rely on you to do it? Because they expect a slaughter in there.

And honestly, if you're going to say some traveler is there as an excuse for a repair guy, tell me why he thought sitting inside the dungeon and waiting was good profits. 99/100 times it won't be.