Alexander loot systems sucks :/

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

Don't want a static? Party Finder Farm Party. Problem solved.

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With constant replacements this doesn't change anything.

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Originally Posted by Havenae

It's whatever.. just gonna say this.

Anyone defending RNG is either Korean, or needs their head checked.

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Or they just don't care that much. Not everyone is obsessed over digital items. They just want to do the content and eventually get thier reward. I particularly find the token/ tomestone system incredibly boring. Because I know from the start i am going to have to run this particular dungeon 8 times to get a piece of gear. And only when I've run it 8 times will i get the gear. Hell if you calculate the amount of dungeons it will take to get the full set it's worse.

The Primal system isn't completely destroyed because they at least left the dungeon drops in there instead of making it exclusively totems, but now all the totems do is make the gear twice as easy to get, as your much more likely to get 2 weapons in 10 runs than before, making the content obsolete much faster and making party finder groups for ravana ex that much harder to set up. Especially in a few weeks from now when everyone is swimming in ravana weapons.

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

All 8 people can get a fraction of a drop, if you grind it by going at least 4 times a week per floor versus two whole drops plus a token you mean. Too grindy, and exhausts the content too fast (1 month)

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Well the content only needs to last 2 weeks for the hardcore grinding crowd, so a month actually isn't too bad. And for the less grindy crowd it'll last significantly longer.

Greetings,

During the recent Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XXIII, Yoshida mentioned that he's aware of the difficulty of obtaining specific loot due to the lotting battles taking place and that we're considering making it easier to obtain loot from Alexander: Gordias. Although we cannot offer a concrete time as to when this will be done, we're continuing to look into this, so please hang in there a bit longer.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

During the recent Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XXIII, Yoshida mentioned that he's aware of the difficulty of obtaining specific loot due to the lotting battles taking place and that we're considering making it easier to obtain loot from Alexander: Gordias. Although we cannot offer a concrete time as to when this will be done, we're continuing to look into this, so please hang in there a bit longer.

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My immediate thought for a quick fix is this: Add an additional vendor that gives us the option to trade any combination of 2-3 parts (doesn't matter which ones you trade in) for any one part of our choice. The weekly limit of one drop per floor will prevent abuse, additionally, I'd say for each run where you don't get something, have it give a bonus to their roll of some kind.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Well the content only needs to last 2 weeks for the hardcore grinding crowd, so a month actually isn't too bad. And for the less grindy crowd it'll last significantly longer.

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The issue I've seen in DF usually is that once the more hardcore grinding crowd leaves though to do other things, it leaves the content with a far higher amount of players who can't necessarily clear it. Those people would have been carried through with the abilities of the more raid centric crowd... Kinda like when WoD came out and the loot lock out happened. Clears weren't a debate. 99% of all WoDs cleared. After loot lock out was lifted? ...Suddenly..and honestly, quite mysteriously, the chances of clearing WoD without wiping at least 2-3 times per boss and nearly an entire exchange of certain parties, only to be abandoned at Cerb... That was more common.

Just saying, once the raid centric crowd leaves, I think clears will become harder to obtain in DF.

My issue with the system is like other peoples. You have to fight 7 others all the time for your loot unless you do it in a static. But you still have to fight 7 others in your static. Even if you stay for everyone's loot, if someone has to go (which happens), you're now fighting again. On top of that, sometimes things don't drop and your static doesn't want to grind out something just for one person to be picky. Hell, even PFs that mention not to leave until everyone gets their loot get people who still leave when drops get picky.

It's a nice system on paper but much like WoD, it becomes drop dependent and eventually the ability to clear it will become questionable.

My entire problem with the Alexander loot system is that if you don't get your item that week, you're behind. Permanently. So you're compelled to run it over and over and over and over and over and the quality of groups I get in df just suck.

I don't have a static per se, but I do go with my FC. We cleared A4 *once* last week. Wasn't remotely enough to get everyone their pieces. The groups are so bad that I just stopped healing them and run as Summoner. Definitely not worth the hassle.

I know they want people to keep running it, but when you have to essentially bribe people to keep running it with shit RNG, then the content itself kinda sucks.

WoW's LFR has a one loot eligible kill per week rule and it doesn't have problems filling spots for people through the raid finder system. When they still had the valor system(kinda like tomestones) I'd run it once a week for those. Adding Esoterics to the boss kills once a week would solve the "but no one is running it" problem.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Too many people from wow expecting instant gratification on the 1st run. If this is your mindset then your not welcome to ff, in ff11 it could take weeks or months to get 1 item, and in old ff14 it could take months also, you should be thankful you get anything, now go to your room and think about what you've done.

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You're ignoring that often those rare pieces could last years in terms of being useful. In XIV your gear lasts <1-3 months at the absolute best and is then useful only for glamour purposes.

Hi every1,

Just create a PF farm party. Something like this:

"A4 Farm. Stay for 4 runs. Know mechanics."

I used that last night and got a crappy team the 1st time and then got a 2nd great team and we all stayed for 4 runs and I believe only 1 or 2 players did not get items. Again, the loot system isn't perfect, but at least by running it 4 times you theoretically give chance for all 8 players to get something and people will stay. You do get the occasionally loot and scoot players, but what can you do.
Unless you really do have super bad luck with rolls, you should get something by a 2nd farm group, if needed. Unless your all aiming for the same 1 item, then pray that it drops twice on each run. :p

Idk why they can't just award one universal token per floor that can be traded for certain gear pieces; 4 Alexander Tokens can get you a body piece, 5 for a weapon, 2 for head piece, 1 for jewelry, etc. That's how I assumed the system would work...not this weird token system we we're given.

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Originally Posted by KamikazeMan

Idk why they can't just award one universal token per floor that can be traded for certain gear pieces; 4 Alexander Tokens can get you a body piece, 5 for a weapon, 2 for head piece, 1 for jewelry, etc. That's how I assumed the system would work...not this weird token system we we're given.

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Nothing is ever easy with SE..

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Originally Posted by ckc22

You're ignoring that often those rare pieces could last years in terms of being useful. In XIV your gear lasts <1-3 months at the absolute best and is then useful only for glamour purposes.

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That still doesn't entitle you to get all the drops you need on the first run, even if the gear was only good for a day.

Alright those people who are complaining, question for you? Did you run Coil? T1-T13? If you did you know what the alternative is right?
4 weeks, no drop for your job, 12 clears no weapon drop, etc... I'm fairly certain everyone has encountered a person who has had the bad end of RNGesus.

How many times did the same item no one wanted hit the floor?

The current system is an improvement over that. tell me otherwise and your lying to yourself.

Ran 4 times and lost the lot, finally got on 5th >>>> Ran 4 weeks and nothing dropped for me at all.

Honestly, they should've just modified Shiva's diamond dust mechanic for Alexander Normal. Each clear, your guaranteed to get a token, max of 5 tokens per floor per week. Something like this:

Floor One: Tokens for belt/feet. Need 5 for feet, 3 for belt.
Floor Two: Tokens for Hands/accessories. 5 for hands, 3 for accessories.
Floor Three: Tokens for Head/Legs. 5 for head, 10 for legs.
Floor Four: Tokens for Body. 10 tokens needed for body, however you can randomly get a body to drop, which auto caps your weekly drops.

Cap each floors tokens to a max of 5 per week. Keeps the lockout, guarantees progression for everyone without constant loot battles, also removes the "I just did 40 runs without a dop! Damnit RNG!"

I dunno, don't see the point in constant RNG for loot progression when you can keep the lockouts per week without ever touching RNG.

Makes too much sense, I suppose.

The loot system is rough that's why they are changing it. For my and many other happiness I can say: Mission Accomplished.

Great
Farm Dungeons for Tomes = trade for gear
Farm Primals for Totems = trade for gear
Farm Raids for Tokens = trade for gear

Everything is the flipping same.

So lets just take it a level deeper, why dont we just reduce to the simplest form and just give the same tome for everything eh?
those sweet super nice items? okay 10k tomes.
Do a raid ? no point
Do a primal ? no point
Do a dungeon ? YARz

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

Alright those people who are complaining, question for you? Did you run Coil? T1-T13? If you did you know what the alternative is right?
4 weeks, no drop for your job, 12 clears no weapon drop, etc... I'm fairly certain everyone has encountered a person who has had the bad end of RNGesus.

How many times did the same item no one wanted hit the floor?

The current system is an improvement over that. tell me otherwise and your lying to yourself.

Ran 4 times and lost the lot, finally got on 5th >>>> Ran 4 weeks and nothing dropped for me at all.

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This reasoning doesn't really work. Sure, the loot system is better than coil, no one can argue that. That doesn't however make this current system acceptable though, also, SE disagrees with you that the loot system is good, hence why they are making plans to change it.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

This reasoning doesn't really work. Sure, the loot system is better than coil, no one can argue that. That doesn't however make this current system acceptable though, also, SE disagrees with you that the loot system is good, hence why they are making plans to change it.

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Its not the perfect system, but its better than the 2.x system.

New system does suck.

People think it is better because they just got in and they probably get like accessory and belt upgrade on their first week. Just wait till the 2nd or 3rd week, where you are hunting specific 4 pieces token. Especially the shaft!

Here is the comparison:
New:
Shaft 66.6% chance dropping per clear (33.3% X 2 piece of loot), and if you need to roll against just 6 people (yes 6 is a low number, most likely u will be rolling against 7 or 8). You need average 10 clears to get 1 shaft. Since you need 4, on average you will need 44 clears to get the chest.

Old:
You will be hunting for 1 specific loot out of 16-20 loot table. Take 20 as example, chance of getting is 10%/clear (5% X 2 piece of loot). Very likely u will be the only one rolling for it (weapon) or just rolling against 1 other. So u need 10 avg clears to get the loot drop and u need 20 avg clear to win the loot.

TL:DR 20 avg. attempts(old) vs 40+ avg. attempts (new). Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

Its not the perfect system, but its better than the 2.x system.

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I agree with you on that. But again, just because it's "better" doesn't mean it can't be fixed. I applaud SE for wanting to fix it.

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

Alright those people who are complaining, question for you? Did you run Coil? T1-T13? If you did you know what the alternative is right?
4 weeks, no drop for your job, 12 clears no weapon drop, etc... I'm fairly certain everyone has encountered a person who has had the bad end of RNGesus.

How many times did the same item no one wanted hit the floor?

The current system is an improvement over that. tell me otherwise and your lying to yourself.

Ran 4 times and lost the lot, finally got on 5th >>>> Ran 4 weeks and nothing dropped for me at all.

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Yeah, u need the repeat the first part 4 times. So to correct you

Ran 4 times and lost the lot, finally got on 5th-->repeat for 4 weeks.

So lets look at what loot options have already been tried

T1-T13 Coil - Weekly Lockout, total RNG on Drops

CT - Weekly loot lockout, can run as many times as you want till you get your stuff-drops job specific

Primals - Tokens or totems to trade in or upgrade items

Alex -- Weekly loot lockout, Tokens you farm till you get what you want need and trade in/

Lets not forget, we need to farm upgrade items from hunts as well. ...

What is left people? Ohhh I know how about craft items from the fights that require you to be able to make it yourself? lol naa thats too 2001... hmm
What other ideas are there?

Instead of complaining come up with a solution!

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Originally Posted by senjyo

Yeah, u need the repeat the first part 4 times. So to correct you

Ran 4 times and lost the lot, finally got on 5th-->repeat for 4 weeks.

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it can be way more than 4 times if you dont have a static then repeat that for 4 weeks.

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

it can be way more than 4 times if you dont have a static then repeat that for 4 weeks.

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Can people see the argument of "static" doesn't apply for this new system? Because you can't just get your piece and ran, you still have to farm it for other static member! Yeah, your piece drop at first run, so what? What about the other 5, 6, 7 members that still need that piece? You either run the same amount of extra clears to help them all, or you tell them to farm it on DF/PF and it is the same. It DOESN'T MATTER if you in a static or not, it take same amount of clear to get same amount of certain token drops.

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

So lets look at what loot options have already been tried

T1-T13 Coil - Weekly Lockout, total RNG on Drops

CT - Weekly loot lockout, can run as many times as you want till you get your stuff-drops job specific

Primals - Tokens or totems to trade in or upgrade items

Alex -- Weekly loot lockout, Tokens you farm till you get what you want need and trade in/

Lets not forget, we need to farm upgrade items from hunts as well. ...

What is left people? Ohhh I know how about craft items from the fights that require you to be able to make it yourself? lol naa thats too 2001... hmm
What other ideas are there?

Instead of complaining come up with a solution!

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Stop being ignorant, people already come up lots of solution. One of them is make one uniform token for all pieces, that way you don't need RNG on 1 specific loot + rolling, you only need RNG on rolling.

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

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My first thought is a universal token as a reward for clearing a floor, (4 max per week), and using that universal token to buy each piece. So keep the rates, 4 tokens for a body, one for belt, etc. But unify it in to one currency that everyone gets so it rewards you for effort and victory rather than luck.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

My first thought is a universal token as a reward for clearing a floor, (4 max per week), and using that universal token to buy each piece. So keep the rates, 4 tokens for a body, one for belt, etc. But unify it in to one currency that everyone gets so it rewards you for effort and victory rather than luck.

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what makes this any different than the tomes you grind from roulettes?

People wouldn't be complaining if they rolled high and got their drops. This loot system is much better than TBCOB. I said it before in this thread and I'll repeat myself, I'd rather be rolling against 7 other people and have a chance at getting loot, than not even having the chance to roll because my piece didn't drop.

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Originally Posted by senjyo

Stop being ignorant, people already come up lots of solution. One of them is make one uniform token for all pieces, that way you don't need RNG on 1 specific loot + rolling, you only need RNG on rolling.

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Cause people totally wouldn't just farm A2 all day for all their tokens or anything. Way too abusable.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

People wouldn't be complaining if they rolled high and got their drops. This loot system is much better than TBCOB. I said it before in this thread and I'll repeat myself, I'd rather be rolling against 7 other people and have a chance at getting loot, than not even having the chance to roll because my piece didn't drop.

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maybe alot of the people complaining never were able to do TBCOB and just dont understand!?!

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

what makes this any different than the tomes you grind from roulettes?

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Why it has to be different? I don't see people complaining about the tomes?! So you want to be different just for the sack of being different?

And if you really want to know what's the differences. How about you can't get daily bonus from low level content which you can complete with your eyes closed. (TBH I can probably do alex with my eyes closed too, but hey, it is "different")

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Cause people totally wouldn't just farm A2 all day for all their tokens or anything. Way too abusable.

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You sounds like people never farming fractal for tomes instead of neverreap. And if you want a solution to that, that's easy, make 1 type of token drop in specific turns only and that token will be used to purchase multiple slot but not all. For example Turn 4 token only can exchange for chest/belt, but if you do turn 4 only turn 4 token drops.

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Originally Posted by senjyo

Why it has to be different? I don't see people complaining about the tomes?! So you want to be different just for the sack of being different?

And if you really want to know what's the differences. How about you can't get daily bonus from low level content which you can complete with your eyes closed. (TBH I can probably do alex with my eyes closed too, but hey, it is "different")

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i think its pretty boring that everything in the end game has become "obtain x amount of these and trade for Y items" personally. i wish there was more unique gear.

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

i think its pretty boring that everything in the end game has become "obtain x amount of these and trade for Y items" personally. i wish there was more unique gear.

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You are on the wrong track, you are bringing the idea of itemization into loot system. You can ask Square to make more sets instead 1 or 2 so that each one has unique gear set special to their build. And that has nothing to do with how the loot system should be.

Wow... People complain about everything. I know I will get flamed for this, but the new system is awesome for this content. Clears are super easy and even if you have new people, the mechanics are easy to teach. Statics don't mater anymore as someone mentioned above you generally have to run it the same amount of times. Join a static, join and farm party, or join DF. You have 3 ways to get your clears and 3 tokens to chose from on each turn. Another thing people don't mention is... You don't have to run these on your main class to get the gear you want!!!

If they did change anything, I think a tiered token system might be better. The tokens are based on the turn you get them from and you have to get so many of a specific tier to get certain loot. For example you need 4 A4 tokens to get a body piece. Or 2 A3/A4 tokens to get the gloves. 4 A3/A4 to get the legs. Basically simplifies the specific drop for specific item drawback of current system. Only drawback to this would be, people would form statics, run A1-4 four times and be done for the week not helping anyone else.

The Japan community complaining about this system makes a lot more sense though. They use DF to actually run content hardcore, and so they fight more random people for drops. American servers tend to form Statics/Farm Parties more and generally only use the DF for pickups, so we don't usually see the loot system as always fighting against 7 other people. IF we do go in solo, we understand that we will be fighting for drops, its part of the risk vs reward you take for doing the content with anyone whenever you want.

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Originally Posted by Lothar808

Wow... People complain about everything. I know I will get flamed for this, but the new system is awesome for this content. Clears are super easy and even if you have new people, the mechanics are easy to teach. Statics don't mater anymore as someone mentioned above you generally have to run it the same amount of times. Join a static, join and farm party, or join DF. You have 3 ways to get your clears and 3 tokens to chose from on each turn. Another thing people don't mention is... You don't have to run these on your main class to get the gear you want!!!

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Welcome to the internet. You could give out free money and people would find something to complain about. This is just the appetizer. I can't wait till they release epic alexander. Most people complaining about how the content is to easy will start complaining about how it is to hard.

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Originally Posted by senjyo

You sounds like people never farming fractal for tomes instead of neverreap. And if you want a solution to that, that's easy, make 1 type of token drop in specific turns only and that token will be used to purchase multiple slot but not all. For example Turn 4 token only can exchange for chest/belt, but if you do turn 4 only turn 4 token drops.

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We already have a solution to it, and one that requires no developer attention at that: the current loot system.

Seriously, I can't believe the amount of whining that's going on about this; quite honestly, it's simple to get items. Any player can acquire some pieces in one week and some pieces in two weeks. The chest piece takes four weeks, but hey, it's the chest piece. In any case, it's a lot less likely that you're going to go dozens or even hundreds of runs (you know, the way that people did back in Coil) without seeing a specific drop because there's 3 token types per floor and 2 chests. Those are pretty good odds. If you're having trouble getting drops because you're farming in Duty Finder then my suggestion would be to stop farming in Duty Finder. Put up a Party Finder or get some friends together to farm. Make at least a token effort to work within the loot system and give it a decent shot before complaining that the drops aren't being served up to you on a goddamn silver platter.

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Originally Posted by Kona_Nightwind

Welcome to the internet. You could give out free money and people would find something to complain about. This is just the appetizer. I can't wait till they release epic alexander. Most people complaining about how the content is to easy will start complaining about how it is to hard.

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yeah and then complain about how they cant upgrade gear without hunts or having a static

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

yeah and then complain about how they cant upgrade gear without hunts or having a static

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Bingo. If the loot system made it easier to gear up it would be the same people complainin about there not being enough content to do.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Seriously, I can't believe the amount of whining that's going on about this; quite honestly, it's simple to get items. Any player can acquire some pieces in one week and some pieces in two weeks. The chest piece takes four weeks, but hey, it's the chest piece. In any case, it's a lot less likely that you're going to go dozens or even hundreds of runs (you know, the way that people did back in Coil) without seeing a specific drop because there's 3 token types per floor and 2 chests. Those are pretty good odds. If you're having trouble getting drops because you're farming in Duty Finder then my suggestion would be to stop farming in Duty Finder. Put up a Party Finder or get some friends together to farm. Make at least a token effort to work within the loot system and give it a decent shot before complaining that the drops aren't being served up to you on a goddamn silver platter.

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Agreed, working with a group of never changing people should guarantee everyone has at least 1 item per floor in the span of 35-40minutes or so (4 runs, least my group is averaging 8min on A1). Assuming its flawless each run and everyone is happy with the item choice from the selection of what...2-3 different types per floor?