It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

FFXI players , would haven laughed .....asking for a "story mode" CoP

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qJlcUstEkyw/hqdefault.jpg

oohhh those were the days , of wiping and wiping and wiping , until u finally beat it ! , the story only was worth it!

now? QQ on the forums until u get everything nerfed to the ground.

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But Dude, FFXI was made for the more experienced, hardcore MMO player. FFXIV is meant for casual gamers, is it not?

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Originally Posted by Wyrmnus

But Dude, FFXI was made for the more experienced, hardcore MMO player. FFXIV is meant for casual gamers, is it not?

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The distribution was about the same, honestly. There was an incredibly large percentage of casual players in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

FFXI players , would haven laughed .....asking for a "story mode" CoP

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qJlcUstEkyw/hqdefault.jpg

oohhh those were the days , of wiping and wiping and wiping , until u finally beat it ! , the story only was worth it!

now? QQ on the forums until u get everything nerfed to the ground.

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Yeah, I really liked XI, sadly I only got as far as the Oryu "Oreo" fight in CoP because I just couldn't commit to a static group. The fight's themselves weren't really the problem, once you read up on what you needed to do and did it it wasn't that bad. It's just finding the other players to do it with you that were as good as you in order that you could all beat it. That's the problem. Statics are a problem. Oh sure, they are great for people who can commit to them, but if you can't then you are just screwed out of progression. I really wanted to beat CoP too, but when your in game friends all have their own statics and you just can't commit to one because of your real life job/situations you just get left behind. That's not really fun, or fair.

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Originally Posted by Ecks007

Look. I get, you want to feel special and that's okay. If you've beaten t5 and t6-t9 then congratulations. How's your static doing? You've got it on farm now, right? You farm it.. right? For the GEAR, right? I mean, why else would you keep doing it, right? Oh that's right, for the gear.

Now that's not to say there aren't players out there that get the thrill of completing difficult content just because it's difficult. And I do get what you're snidely trying to say. Coil is suppose to be the hardest content the game has to offer currently (aside from Savage Coil, which hey.. was put in there specifically for players who really want that hardcore challenge). You are rewarded from doing that really hard content with some pretty snazzy looking gear and the ability to truly have the best gear combinations in the game to make you super leet.

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Implying I do it purely for gear and not that the fights are incredibly fun. Keep assuming that everyone who raids is the same.

You assumed that everyone is against the idea because because they don't want you to get coil gear or achievements.
Go and actually read the points against the implementation, you may educate yourself instead of doing exactly what my image showed.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

Instead of encouraging you to learn and improve, it's going to turn the player base into an idiocracy, where no one can really accomplish much short of "the 5%".

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...right, because all the PFs with "multiple kill exp only or we'll hunt down your family and all your friends herpderp" are so much more encouraging. I don't think I'd even need both my hands to count the actual "training party" PFs I've seen since the implementation of the feature. And now some are even crying for an actual clearance condition checkbox, for even more encouragement! (And no, don't tell me to go watch YT, those don't really teach either; besides, if I'm not allowed to watch story cutscenes at the time/place they actually happen, I'm not gonna bother with 3rd party content for you either, tyvm.)


On another, more general note, here's the flipside: if such old content as 1st coil is still what's making your e-peen swell with pride, perhaps you should re-evaluate your position as supermegaawesomehardcoreendgameplayer? It's just amazing, in a way, to see so many people practically outraged at an idea that would have no effect on them whatsoever and would give nobody any unfair advantage or reward. But please, do go on.

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Originally Posted by Hali

Also, where are your statistics to disprove me?

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Burden of proof reversal fallacy. You claim statistics, then ask for numbers when asked to show any proof. You need to have better arguments if you want me to take you seriously.

I've seen lots of things here, but seriously...

Can't just people admit that they don't want other people to enjoy stuff they already did ?
Because it all ends like that. That would be the only reason you'd be against an eased version patched months after you had the chance to beat it "the regular way".

It does not affect your gameplay

It does not affect your raiding sphere

It does not give loot to unskilled/unworthy players (choose your favorite word)


It does not take that much time to devs (reduce few numbers, remove a few lines)

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

Probably had extreme in my head because of the primals haha.

Anyway, it's great that they're just one or two mechanics for you. Maybe I could get them with practice. Maybe not.
At the end of the day it's story content gated behind some of the hardest content in the game and I don't care for it.

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So you're too lazy to put the effort in to clear a simple fight and you expect the clear to be handed to you on a plate?

Again, just to repeat myself. The fight is not hard. You now have easy access to gear 20 item levels above the intended requirement plus a 20% echo buff. It can be cleared with less than 8 people quite easily.

What more do you want?

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Originally Posted by Shioban

[Marker goes above your head] > [Move Under Boss] > [Different Coloured Marker Appears above head] > [Move ontop of other players]
[Another different marker appears above your head] > [Run to avoid dying] > [Boss uses one cast-bar telegraphed from the moon] > [Move to avoid dying]

These are not difficult mechanics.

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Simple, very very simple, I'm sure as it's this easy your first T5 kill only took your static a few trys then?

The rest of us must be really stupid, as it took most of us many hours back in 2.0/2.1 to kill tiwn, yet the machanics were exactly the same as discribed above.

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Originally Posted by Audacity

So you're too lazy to put the effort in to clear a simple fight and you expect the clear to be handed to you on a plate?

Again, just to repeat myself. The fight is not hard. You now have easy access to gear 20 item levels above the intended requirement plus a 20% echo buff. It can be cleared with less than 8 people quite easily.

What more do you want?

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At the current difficulty PUGs wipe to one shot mechanics and disband.
I want a story mode I can reasonably clear in DF. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

At the current difficulty PUGs wipe to one shot mechanics and disband.
I want a story mode I can reasonably clear in DF. Simple as that.

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Clear it with friends. There's no lockout.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Burden of proof reversal fallacy. You claim statistics, then ask for numbers when asked to show any proof. You need to have better arguments if you want me to take you seriously.

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I find it ironic that you chose to target him with this reply, despite the person he was replying to is doing the exact same thing. They were posting statistic far before he did in the thread, but sure, let's attack only Hali because he's the one who's not on your side, right? Not like the only reason he posted that was because of replies like this:

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Got numbers for that? Because without them, I'm not buying it. The few census slides I saw didn't mention coil clears, so I'd like to know where your numbers are coming from.

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I've seen lots of things here, but seriously...

Can't just people admit that they don't want other people to enjoy stuff they already did ?
Because it all ends like that. That would be the only reason you'd be against an eased version patched months after you had the chance to beat it "the regular way".

It does not affect your gameplay

It does not affect your raiding sphere

It does not give loot to unskilled/unworthy players (choose your favorite word)


It does not take that much time to devs (reduce few numbers, remove a few lines)

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Please, do not assume this is how we are. I have posted twice now, with reason on why this is a bad thing, how it affects everyone by allowing people to get by without learning, continuing their cycle of constantly begging for handouts. Go and read them before using this sort of reply again.
This is nothing to do with loot.
This is nothing to do with preventing people from accessing content.
This has everything to do with preventing the perpetuation of dumbing down the game and keeping the player base ignorant and unskilled.

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Originally Posted by Audacity

Clear it with friends. There's no lockout.

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So you're assuming EVERYONE has friends? * shakes head *

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Originally Posted by Audacity

Clear it with friends. There's no lockout.

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Don't have any friends who have cleared it.
Most have given up on trying.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

Don't have any friends who have cleared it.

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Then get those friends, Form a group of 8 and go in and learn the fight. This way, you won't get people leaving after a few unsuccessful attempts.

You know, Like the rest of us had to do when we cleared it.

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Originally Posted by Audacity

Then get those friends, Form a group of 8 and go in and learn the fight. This way, you won't get people leaving after a few unsuccessful attempts.

You know, Like the rest of us had to do when we cleared it.

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I feel story content shouldn't be locked behind content that requires that much practice.

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Originally Posted by SevValen

Obviously not ppl cant beat turn 5 with the echo buff


What good would that do to kick people that suck? What if the people that suck are fc mates , friends or rl friends you'd be denying them the chance of beating it. And again its obviously not easy to get a t5 win if alot of people still cant get a win

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Sorry dude, but i've seen enough "carry me please t5" fc members who got bigheaded and goin t6 only to fail HORRIBLY EPIC

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This has everything to do with preventing the perpetuation of dumbing down the game and keeping the player base ignorant and unskilled.

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I have not cleared Titan EX yet, I just can't. I don't know wether it's me or bad parties, but I have never been able to beat it. When they finally unlocked the other Extreme fights, I downed Moogle EX at my first attempt and Leviathan and Ramuh at my second. Just because you can't do one specific thing doesn't mean you can't do everything else.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Simple, very very simple, I'm sure as it's this easy your first T5 kill only took your static a few trys then?

The rest of us must be really stupid, as it took most of us many hours back in 2.0/2.1 to kill tiwn, yet the machanics were exactly the same as discribed above.

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Actually the vast majority of the wipes were caused by our terrible gear and the occasional mistake more than anything.

The actual learning process was extremely easy.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

I feel story content shouldn't be locked behind content that requires that much practice.

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It was the exact same with FFXI, or any MMO for that matter.

They're going to add a story for this content, crying because "I didnt get to participate in EVERY aspect of the game" is just sad.



CAN they add this? Yes, they're considering methods for it.

Are they likely to do it as described by the OP? Not likely.


The entire story is available for your viewing pleasure, RIGHT NOW.
If you just want to know the story, then skipping the fights won't be that big of an issue for you.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

I feel story content shouldn't be locked behind content that requires that much practice.

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However, Coil is optional. It's a side quest. It's not the main story, which is probably why it doesn't currently have a story mode.

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Originally Posted by Empressia

Sorry dude, but i've seen enough "carry me please t5" fc members who got bigheaded and goin t6 only to fail HORRIBLY EPIC

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Which, if recorded, would be comedy forever.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

Don't have any friends who have cleared it.
Most have given up on trying.

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So what you're saying is, the only way you'd do coil "with friends" is if you were doing it with people who have already completed it? Do you people only want content if it comes with handouts at every step of the journey?
There's nothing stopping you, as a group of friends together, learning coil, I don't know about you, but that's how I've made my best friends in this game and I've become closer with each and every one of them while learning content together.

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Originally Posted by Wyrmnus

So you're assuming EVERYONE has friends? * shakes head *

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I would hope so. Making friends is a universal trait, I can't imagine someone going through an MMO without making friends. Do you not have any linkshells? DO you just play the game like a single player game, interacting with no one? If so, maybe a single player game is the better solution for you.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

superiority complex much ? Your beloved "Warrior of light" titles hasn't anything to do with the coil to begin with.

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In no way have I considered myself superior to anyone in any part of my post. I simply made point that you are a warrior of light, as in most Final Fantasy games. A warrior infused with the light of the crystal....and can't beat Twintania? Now, usually when I see a thread similar to this, it doesn't come down to the specific player's skill. It's more so their willingness to form a party/static and taking a leading role. It's quite common for people to be a little unsure or hesitant to tell someone in a party "Sorry, but we just can't do this with you." because it seems that when someone tries to convey such a truth, they are branded an elitist, even if they are trying to be as polite as possible. When this occurs, it seems more common for the party to just disband instead of dismissing the player until they are ready.

On top of that, T5 has been out for a very long time. There are numerous resources when it comes to learning the mechanics. As for DPS checks, healing, tanking, HP requirements etc., it's quite difficult to not meet these with how accessible i90 gear has become and beyond that with also the echo buff stacked on. Again, the only issue is mechanics.

A common argument to this is that people do not have the time to work and play enough to learn the mechanics, but if a player has been playing since launch and still hasn't beaten T5 and is using the same excuse, how much have they tried to learn? How many videos have they watched? How many questions have they asked to a player of a similar role?

Going into any fight and wiping time and time again is simply not enough to learn. While players may experience the fight, they won't necessarily understand the mechanics and why or how something happens and that's wherein the issue lies. On top of that, if a player comes in with little to no knowledge, as I have seen happen, it means at least 7 people having to spend their time in running them through the fight.

At the end of the day, it's an MMO. It's not meant to be cleared as quickly as your common run of the mill single player story game. If you want your story mode without the challenge, youtube still remains. If you don't find the challenge of the fight any fun, why do it to begin with? That's an honest question. If the only part you are after is the cutscenes and story line, no doubt someone has made it all available somewhere and you won't even need to purchase the game. Although in saying that, there is more to the game then the battle contant. Such as crafting, mini games, RPing, whatever you may enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

I feel story content shouldn't be locked behind content that requires that much practice.

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If you were even half decent players, It wouldn't take you more than a couple of hours.

Your other alternatives are watching the cutscene on Youtube or buying a win if it bothers you that much.

And even if you beat it, The story continues through second coil, Are you going to ask for a free Turn 6 win next?

It doesn't matter what excuse you bring to the table. There's always an answer for it.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Burden of proof reversal fallacy. You claim statistics, then ask for numbers when asked to show any proof. You need to have better arguments if you want me to take you seriously.

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Babby's first debate, "If I attack a mistake they may have done, instead of their actual point, I will come off being the better!"

Class act.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

However, Coil is optional. It's a side quest. It's not the main story, which is probably why it doesn't currently have a story mode.

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Very true. I personally feel the coil story is significant enough to the main story that it shouldn't be gated.
Of course the decision is ultimately up to SE.

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Originally Posted by Audacity

Again, just to repeat myself. The fight is not hard. You now have easy access to gear 20 item levels above the intended requirement plus a 20% echo buff. It can be cleared with less than 8 people quite easily.

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Speaking as someone who has cleared T1-4 before Echo was a thing and promptly ran into a wall for months because Twin is -absurd- (thankfully I met some -wonderful- players who helped me through and now we've cleared T6-8 together), irrelevant. Twintania is a walking dispenser of ridiculous instant-kill mechanics. Let's break it down:

Phase 1: Nothing special here, although Liquid Hell is a pain in the neck, especially at the very start when all three are hurling them.
Phase 2: Fireball and conflag. Raiders like us find it easy -now- but I have distinct memories of taking quite a while to get the hang of it. And there's always Twin's favorite trick of dropping a conflag and then immediately buggering off to go prep divebombs. (That'd be one nice nerf: change it so it's like T8, where if you push phase while towers are up it won't actually start doing new stuff until the towers finish.)
Phase 3: Divebombs, aka Landslide 2.0. Even with gear, even with Echo, it matters not if you can't duck out of the way and Twin kicks you into the giant wall of fire. And until you've run T5 a LOT, you're gonna be panicking if you get clipped and find yourself alone on the other side of the arena with a dragon hanging around glaring at you. And really... it really is just like Titan EX; there's always gonna be that one guy who just doesn't get it and can't handle playing pickle with divebombs. It doesn't help that sometimes Twin decides to be a jerk and dives forward even if you do everything right (stack on the circle, run once you see green marker, she decides she'll go forward instead of towards where you were).
Phase 4: Twisters. Yes. I get it. You focus-target the scary dragon and watch for her castbar. On paper that sounds really easy, right? Yeah, now try it in a fight where you're trying to avoid being near anyone else, frantically trying to keep the tank alive because she's STILL throwing around Death Sentence and it actually hurts even MORE, -and- you have to deal with scampering to near the edge in case the Dreadknight decides to target on you, and if you're a DPS you need to be going maximum ham every single time a knight shows up. It is -absurdly- easy to get tunnel visioned and the castbar is too short to react adequately to a macro or TS shout.
Phase 5: Well, if you get here you're pretty much home free... usually. Unless something goes wrong and the hatch misses its usual target, and the poor DPS or healer it's zooming towards panics. (*raises hand, this was him first time at that phase*)

Seriously, you can boil down any fight in any game on paper until it looks easy... but putting it into practice, and having seven other people -also- put it into practice -perfectly-, is complete and utter chaos. Hell, just look at Turn 8. Just because -you- find it easy and have it on farm doesn't mean it's -actually- easy for the rest of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Hali

Implying I do it purely for gear and not that the fights are incredibly fun. Keep assuming that everyone who raids is the same.

You assumed that everyone is against the idea because because they don't want you to get coil gear or achievements.
Go and actually read the points against the implementation, you may educate yourself instead of doing exactly what my image showed.

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Except I wasn't implying you do it purely for the gear. Though the large majority of raiders do.

Maybe I didn't word the first sentence in my second paragraph well enough for you, but that would apparently include people like you who enjoy the fights. The boss fights are the difficult content I was referring to, because lets face it, trash mobs aren't really difficult.

I may have read whatever points you made. My points are basically the same as the OP, which if anything would mean you are missing the point here. This isn't a thread against the implementation of a Story Mode for coil, it's in support of the idea. The idea the OP brought up. You don't have to like it, you don't have to support it, you are entitled to your opinion.

There is still no good reason to not implement a story mode version of coil like the OP suggests, and a multitude of good reasons to support the idea.

Why don't you read my posts a bit more thoroughly. Or don't, I don't care at this point. My points have been made and supported and that's good enough for me.

There's on part in the recent live letter announcement that shows how important coil story is "Discover what has become of the harbinger of the Seventh Umbral Era in the Final Coil of Bahamut." This is the story of what happened to the destroyer of 1.0, how he went from all powerfull being ripping apart the surface of Eorzea to ending up underground. To me that's a very important part of the overall story. If the story was something like in Crystal Tower which feels like a sidestory, I would have no problem with it, but to me it feels like I'm being left out of the story because I don't raid.

As for people telling others to just watch it on youtube: then why play games at all when you can just watch everything on youtube. It's a stupid answer, people want to have a chance at clearing it themselves and experience the story with their own character.

My perspective is one of a fan of the single player FF games as opposed to MMOs in general.
I am well aware I will never beat the top content in a MMO without dedicating time to practicing and forming a static team. I am fine with that.

I am disappointed that this game (and XI too? Never played) places story content behind the tougher fights. I don't recall anything nearly as significant as Coil's storyline happening when you beat the superbosses in other FFs.

And yes, I would love an eventual story mode of t6+ as well.
It is of course up to SE whether or not this is a good idea or a worthwhile investment of resources.
I am simply saying it's something I would enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

There's on part in the recent live letter announcement that shows how important coil story is "Discover what has become of the harbinger of the Seventh Umbral Era in the Final Coil of Bahamut." This is the story of what happened to the destroyer of 1.0, how he went from all powerfull being ripping apart the surface of Eorzea to ending up underground. To me that's a very important part of the overall story. If the story was something like in Crystal Tower which feels like a sidestory, I would have no problem with it, but to me it feels like I'm being left out of the story because I don't raid.

As for people telling others to just watch it on youtube: then why play games at all when you can just watch everything on youtube. It's a stupid answer, people want to have a chance at clearing it themselves and experience the story with their own character.

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Thats what I meant. The story in coil is pretty epic and integral to the narrative of "a realm reborn". In truth, its SE's fault for locking it behind end game raid content. But here we are. I worked extra hard to get 2nd coil cleared, but I'd hate for someone not to be able to experience this story organically in game because they can't join a static, or find 7 other competent players to get it cleared.


In the future, I'd like to see more raids that have side stories, a la CT, and not an important part of the main story. Also, future raids shouldn't be connected to each other, or require you to clear one to access the other. Of course.. thats a debate for a whole new thread...

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

My perspective is one of a fan of the single player FF games as opposed to MMOs in general.
I am well aware I will never beat the top content in a MMO without dedicating time to practicing and forming a static team. I am fine with that.

I am disappointed that this game (and XI too? Never played) places story content behind the tougher fights. I don't recall anything nearly as significant as Coil's storyline happening when you beat the superbosses in other FFs.

And yes, I would love an eventual story mode of t6+ as well.
It is of course up to SE whether or not this is a good idea or a worthwhile investment of resources.
I am simply saying it's something I would enjoy.

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I don't buy it, not one bit.
How can you claim to be a fan of previous FF titles when the previous games have had tons of difficult bosses, which, by the way, gate storyline progress just as much as coil does. Secret bosses, even some of the final bosses or mid-point bosses have been very, very difficult walls. Do you know what we did back then? We either grinded to be overleveled (Let's say this would be akin to echo) or you bashed your head against the wall until you beat it.
What is the difference here, really? Why is the fact this is an MMO so different to what we did in the other games?

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

Thats what I meant. The story in coil is pretty epic and integral to the narrative of "a realm reborn". In truth, its SE's fault for locking it behind end game raid content. But here we are. I worked extra hard to get 2nd coil cleared, but I'd hate for someone not to be able to experience this story organically in game because they can't join a static, or find 7 other competent players to get it cleared.


In the future, I'd like to see more raids that have side stories, a la CT, and not an important part of the main story. Also, future raids shouldn't be connected to each other, or require you to clear one to access the other. Of course.. thats a debate for a whole new thread...

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See, he gets it. I like you. :3
I'd love to be in a Coil static. I used to be up to T4 and it was great. I just cannot commit to set times anymore.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

Do you know what we did back then? We either grinded to be overleveled (Let's say this would be akin to echo) or you bashed your head against the wall until you beat it.
What is the difference here, really? Why is the fact this is an MMO so different to what we did in the other games?

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Thank you. Finally also coming from someone else that we could have fun and play games without YT years ago. As for the second question, the difference is that we're talking about content here that does not require one person to be skilled enough, but seven other as well. I can be doubly overgeared and know all the patterns perfectly enough never to miss anything, there's no guarantee the other seven will be like that too.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

snip

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I honestly can't recall any big storyline related to secret/optional bosses in other FFs. The FFXIII trilogy certanly had none, XII harderst bosses were hunts, FFX's Zoolab didn't have a storyline either... maybe FFX-2 with Trema, although I have personally never fought him so I don't know how much storyline is there. And the Cups have some silly storylines for the monsters but they're hardly as important as what happened to Eorzea's biggest threat. Did FFVII's weapons have any stroyline to them?

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Originally Posted by Hali

Babby's first debate, "If I attack a mistake they may have done, instead of their actual point, I will come off being the better!"

Class act.

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are you even trying ? prove your claims and come back or please do not come to troll any longer.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

I find it ironic that you chose to target him with this reply, despite the person he was replying to is doing the exact same thing. They were posting statistic far before he did in the thread, but sure, let's attack only Hali because he's the one who's not on your side, right? Not like the only reason he posted that was because of replies like this:

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I've chosen that comment because it's a huge flaw in the point they may ever attempt to prove. Which was already raised by the quoted comment : numbers thrown out of nowhere, with nothing to back them up (72% of the statistics on the internet are purely made up right ?)

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

Please, do not assume this is how we are. I have posted twice now, with reason on why this is a bad thing, how it affects everyone by allowing people to get by without learning, continuing their cycle of constantly begging for handouts. Go and read them before using this sort of reply again.
This is nothing to do with loot.
This is nothing to do with preventing people from accessing content.
This has everything to do with preventing the perpetuation of dumbing down the game and keeping the player base ignorant and unskilled.

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I do not see how offering a story version of irrelevant content is contributing to the "perpetuation of dumbing down the game and keeping the player base ignorant and unskilled". People who aren't doing coil now because they gave it up won't magically come back because you give them a new raid locked behind it. They might come back however if you actually give them the possibility to enjoy the story behind the content, while more dedicated players get the loot and honor or whatever.
"Might" being better than "won't" in my vocabulary, I fail to see your point considering how Yoshi-P wants many people to enjoy the coil.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

I don't buy it, not one bit.
How can you claim to be a fan of previous FF titles when the previous games have had tons of difficult bosses, which, by the way, gate storyline progress just as much as coil does. Secret bosses, even some of the final bosses or mid-point bosses have been very, very difficult walls. Do you know what we did back then? We either grinded to be overleveled (Let's say this would be akin to echo) or you bashed your head against the wall until you beat it.
What is the difference here, really? Why is the fact this is an MMO so different to what we did in the other games?

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you forgot major points in your argument :

=> solo games vs MMOs. The mechanics are totally different
=> oldies were turned based. Wat easier to prepare/recover than active battles
=> overlevelling content in solo FF generally equals to doubling your power compared to what is needed. Especially with the exponential stats.

=> for your other point, please tell me when major stuff was locked behind optional bosses in FF series ?
There was no side story in FF1, nor in FF2, nor in FF6, 7 (the weapons have no story just fights), FFX has none at all ("oh you're a badie, dark aeon" is not a story worth telling), and FFxii only side bosses were hunts and Aeons, which had close to no story behind them except for the contract itself.

Can't say for sure for FF3 to FF5, but I don't remember any.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

I can be doubly overgeared and know all the patterns perfectly enough never to miss anything, there's no guarantee the other seven will be like that too.

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If the other seven members can't catch on within a reasonable amonut of time, you have a few choices with this being an MMO:

a) Seek out people who are on your skill and dedication level to clearing new content.
b) Wait till your group overgears the content to a point where poor execution doesn't matter.
c) Watch youtube.
d) Cry about it on the official forums.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Thank you. Finally also coming from someone else that we could have fun and play games without YT years ago. As for the second question, the difference is that we're talking about content here that does not require one person to be skilled enough, but seven other as well. I can be doubly overgeared and know all the patterns perfectly enough never to miss anything, there's no guarantee the other seven will be like that too.

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Yes, this. So much this.

This is part of the rambling in one of my posts I just ended up deleting. Why 98% of the time using the Duty Finder to clear T5 is a waste of time. There are 7 other completely unknown variables and unless you know for sure they are all on the same page as yourself, assuming you are decent enough to do your part in the fight with minimal errors, then it's not really worth the frustration, time or effort if all it takes is 1-2 of those 7 players to make you fail because they aren't prepared.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

I don't buy it, not one bit. ect

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Mind naming a few?
I've beaten remakes of I-VI and normal versions of VII-XIII excluding XI. III DS was the only one I would say was hard overall.
For all of them if I couldn't beat a superboss there was a foolproof strategy online that required very little in terms of execution pull off. IX's Ozma is probably the only superboss I couldn't reliably beat every time thanks to the nasty combinations you can get from Curse.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

I do not see how offering a story version of irrelevant content is contributing to the "perpetuation of dumbing down the game and keeping the player base ignorant and unskilled". People who aren't doing coil now because they gave it up won't magically come back because you give them a new raid locked behind it. They might come back however if you actually give them the possibility to enjoy the story behind the content, while more dedicated players get the loot and honor or whatever.
"Might" being better than "won't" in my vocabulary, I fail to see your point considering how Yoshi-P wants many people to enjoy the coil.

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You don't see how providing people with an easy option will stop them from trying? Really.
Take a step back and look at the last few patches we've had.
2.2 hits, we discover that this time, to get the highest item level gear, despite having Soldiery, you also needed tokens that drop from coil. People did coil a lot more because they wanted to be i110, they did it because there was a carrot held above their heads.
Then we got 2.3, the hunt patch. Guess what happened? People commented saying that they didn't feel they had to do Coil anymore, people did dungeons less because they were able to get their soldiery whilst doing hunts and whilst getting oils/sands. There was an even juicier carrot that also required less effort.
The carrot is what motivates people to do anything in game, it is always that, whether it is storyline progress, loot, a fun fight, whatever you find fun in game, that is your personal carrot. Why does this matter? Because like I have just shown, people will take the easiest, simplest path to what they take and ignore any other, it is a fundamental fact that the player base has shown to be true. If an easy coil is provided, the people that want the story will take said easy path, and ignore the rest of the content, they won't attempt "regular" coil, they won't improve, they will ignore it.

They already said that it would be further eased when people are not driven to the content anymore. Namely post expansion.

I can agree with the easy version for story completion. If there's no loot, I think it's a pretty good idea. DF can really suck and a big part of it is because 90% that can't win only make it to 50-60% on average and get no further and CAN'T learn the next phases. People leave/get frustrated and there's nothing learned. Youtube is a cancer to mmo's. Why play if you're going to watch someone else and not try to experience learning things for yourself?