DEV Team Please adjust ilvl requirement for The Lost City of Amdapor. Pharos all over

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03-09-2014, 04:48 AM
CSX

Nice, I hope 1 of these dungeons is a Pharos Sirius all over again. If you people think it's omg hard you'll avoid it and I'll be happy, cause that means I won't have to play with you =D
03-09-2014, 04:54 AM
Musashidon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkista

So what is going to take most of us months to do they can do in a week.

is that not a good thing? i mean after so many needed monthly grinds they add up, starts at 6 months then goes to a year then goes to year n a half and so on and so furth. at one point the grinds to catch up will be to large to actually catch up.
03-09-2014, 05:06 AM
Sessurea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashidon

is that not a good thing? i mean after so many needed monthly grinds they add up, starts at 6 months then goes to a year then goes to year n a half and so on and so furth. at one point the grinds to catch up will be to large to actually catch up.

It took months because of weekly lockout lol. My char is 1 month old and is ilvl 83. Though im not hardcore enough to do this, if there was no lockout I could have gotten all that gear in 4-5 days. Newcomers will have it easy enough I should think, already with access to all this.
03-09-2014, 05:11 AM
Musashidon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sessurea

It took months because of weekly lockout lol. My char is 1 month old and is ilvl 83. Though im not hardcore enough to do this, if there was no lockout I could have gotten all that gear in 4-5 days. Newcomers will have it easy enough I should think, already with access to all this.

that is because of the route the game is going. just think of it like this.

say myth cap was never raised 200 a week instead of 450
now no i90 gear outside of the cap and lock out meaning no primal gear or primal i90 weps.
now all you have is ct weekly lockout which will help a bit on ilvl but not all that much.
now its back to the old 5 month long grind for ilvls. now we make multiple versions of this for every tier of coil (like they plan too)
say we have 5 tiers of coil that's a very long way to go to make it to the last tier by the time you got there they would have added more meaning you're still behind it's very discouraging.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkista

Lets say we are at 2.8 or even 4.2, No matter what version we are on a new player will be able to play catch up in a matter of days. Between Tome gear, Dungeon Gear and Crafted gear there would be no reason for a new player to not be able to catch up. Regardless a new player will always be behind on the newer content until the next patch that removes lockouts. The reason why is because they are new, if a new player starts today will they catch up with us before 2.2? No, because of lockouts. But when 2.2 the can get pretty close. But when they do catch up they will be a 1-2 weeks behind current players who are already geared and ready. Is that the new players fault? No. Is it ilvl's fault? No. It's Weekly Lockouts fault. So until content has no lockout, or a new player starts a month before lockout are removed on older content then they are always going to be behind.

So ilvl isn't really stopping a new player from catching up, It's weekly Lockouts. All a higher ilvl requirement is doing is simply slowing things down. It's not like a new player will die if they can't reach End Game 10 mins after they hit level 50. Gearing in this game isn't hard and the only thing stopping people is lockouts.

i am not saying it's ilvl fault i am blaming lockouts, and i am not saying they need to be the highest ilvl like everyone else i just mean if we have t20 they shouldn't have to play 2 years to hit t20 just for t40 ti be out. which is what i am saying it is the lockouts fault

i was just using ilvl as an example because you need i70 to hit coil with t6-9 you will need i90 which means months of lock out grinding.

as long as they can play the content there should be no problem yes they will be behind but it's impossible to stop that it happens. just being lockout outta content for such a long time is a pretty big design flaw

also i will say the best gear isn't needed like i90 it will be farmable but with that i90 will be all you ever need to do any content sorta like i70 is over all the ilvl requirements so it's not about gear its just about
being able to do the content. its about being lockout of 50% or more maybe less of the content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sessurea

idk man...

All content previous 2.2 can be steamrolled after 2.2. The old 5 month grind as u say, is now a 1-2 week grind, with a new 5 month grind added on at the end.

Having high ilvl at the start of 2.2 is little advantage. And why speak of advantages anyways? this is a pve carebear game with zero competition, unless you include world 1sts or w/e. I'm pretty sure new players don't want to rush to the newest content, as if it was just a formality. Why can't all content and steps of the ladder be relevant and seen as fun?

well everyone thinks i am saying give them gear easily so they can steamroll, that is not at all what i am trying to say, steps are perfectly fine like i60 dungeons or i70 or i80 as long as people CAN access this stuff. the lockouts aren't bad as long as they are only the very end game content lock outs. that means t6-9 and not t1-9.

like i have been saying all along why would i play a game that i know will take me 3 years to get to end game? yes it would mean in a sense i have 3 years worth of content but if that is really 2 months of content with over 2 years of lock outs and by the time i get to the first final lock out and there is now 3 more players won't wanna play.

which is why i say lock out have to go as new content with lock out are added to keep things reasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkista

Putting higher ilvl requirements on Future Content isn't going to hold a new player back. Gear in this game is so easy to obtain, And I'm willing to bet that 2.2 they might even raise the amount of Phil/Myth Tomes in dungeons. All a Higher ilvl Requirement is doing, Is stopping under geared players from holding others back.

The Minimum is called the minimum because some guys that do nothing but play video games for a living, Managed to put on some crap gear, win a dungeon and said ok this is the bare Minimum to get this place done. Point is the people who come up with these requirements are probably pretty skilled? Is every player who plays this game skilled? Hell No! They should be like ok we got by with ilvl68 minimum lets add 5-8 more ilvls to this dungeon. But do they? Nope. No one is asking the DEV team to make dungeon ilvl requirements to be max ilvl. It just gives a little more room for error if someone is a bad player.

well really i am not even talking about the new dungeon anymore xD most my comments have been against how people feel certain items becoming farmable and not capped and hard to get as it has been.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkista

You know that 2.2 Mythology Tomestone Weekly Cap and Coils of Bahamut Weekly Lockout will be gone right? So If SE is going to follow this pattern with every other Patch 2.2, 2.4, 2.6, 2.8........ that lockouts will be removed and catching up won't take someone 2 years to get to T40. How far a new player will be behind depends on when they start. But with lockouts removed it will be really easy to catch up.

that has been my point all along people don't want the cap removed because they had to work with it so everyone else should have to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarion

I just don't understand the mindset where a new player should have access to all content upon reaching lvl 50. No. They should have to earn that right. Period. With caps and lockouts being removed, there should be no reason for the game to regress in content. That's what setting the ilvl for the "new" dungeon does, it stagnates any sort of sense of progression. The ONLY reason people will run this new dungeon is if it contains another way for us to obtain the new tomestones. However, that is the only reward. Allowing fresh players to COMPLETELY SKIP old content is wrong. They have completely taken out the sense of progression.

Wanting to have the ilvl increased for the new dungeon has nothing to do with wanting to make the content easier or give more room for error. In fact, it should be that much more difficult. This new dungeon will never pose a challenge to players who significantly out gear it. Again, now there's no sense of accomplishment or progression from having to EARN the NEW gear as there should be. But alas, the new players that just hit 50 should be able to do it like everyone else!

they did earn the right by making it there, there will always be progression so what if they can do the new dungeon? what they will play long enough to cap the new tome then log off? ok fine whats the problem with that? it will still take them at least 2 weeks if not more to get a piece of gear meaning unless they progress they won't be able to do anything. so in the end progression is still there just they aren't being forced to start later on the new tome and can start earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkista

^^ ohhh sorry I got you now.

Well people have to get over that. If SE kept lockouts then new players would never catch up. Like you said would take 2 years to get caught up.

no reason to be sorry the forums are for talking discussing and suggesting misunderstandings happen.
03-09-2014, 05:21 AM
Arkista

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashidon

is that not a good thing? i mean after so many needed monthly grinds they add up, starts at 6 months then goes to a year then goes to year n a half and so on and so furth. at one point the grinds to catch up will be to large to actually catch up.

Lets say we are at 2.8 or even 4.2, No matter what version we are on a new player will be able to play catch up in a matter of days. Between Tome gear, Dungeon Gear and Crafted gear there would be no reason for a new player to not be able to catch up. Regardless a new player will always be behind on the newer content until the next patch that removes lockouts. The reason why is because they are new, if a new player starts today will they catch up with us before 2.2? No, because of lockouts. But when 2.2 the can get pretty close. But when they do catch up they will be a 1-2 weeks behind current players who are already geared and ready. Is that the new players fault? No. Is it ilvl's fault? No. It's Weekly Lockouts fault. So until content has no lockout, or a new player starts a month before lockout are removed on older content then they are always going to be behind.

So ilvl isn't really stopping a new player from catching up, It's weekly Lockouts. All a higher ilvl requirement is doing is simply slowing things down. It's not like a new player will die if they can't reach End Game 10 mins after they hit level 50. Gearing in this game isn't hard and the only thing stopping people is lockouts.
03-09-2014, 05:24 AM
Sessurea

idk man...

All content previous 2.2 can be steamrolled after 2.2. The old 5 month grind as u say, is now a 1-2 week grind, with a new 5 month grind added on at the end.

Having high ilvl at the start of 2.2 is little advantage. And why speak of advantages anyways? this is a pve carebear game with zero competition, unless you include world 1sts or w/e. I'm pretty sure new players don't want to rush to the newest content, as if it was just a formality. Why can't all content and steps of the ladder be relevant and seen as fun?
03-09-2014, 05:42 AM
Arkista

Putting higher ilvl requirements on Future Content isn't going to hold a new player back. Gear in this game is so easy to obtain, And I'm willing to bet that 2.2 they might even raise the amount of Phil/Myth Tomes in dungeons. All a Higher ilvl Requirement is doing, Is stopping under geared players from holding others back.

The Minimum is called the minimum because some guys that do nothing but play video games for a living, Managed to put on some crap gear, win a dungeon and said ok this is the bare Minimum to get this place done. Point is the people who come up with these requirements are probably pretty skilled? Is every player who plays this game skilled? Hell No! They should be like ok we got by with ilvl68 minimum lets add 5-8 more ilvls to this dungeon. But do they? Nope. No one is asking the DEV team to make dungeon ilvl requirements to be max ilvl. It just gives a little more room for error if someone is a bad player.
03-09-2014, 05:59 AM
Arkista

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashidon

snip.

You know that 2.2 Mythology Tomestone Weekly Cap and Coils of Bahamut Weekly Lockout will be gone right? So If SE is going to follow this pattern with every other Patch 2.2, 2.4, 2.6, 2.8........ that lockouts will be removed and catching up won't take someone 2 years to get to T40. How far a new player will be behind depends on when they start. But with lockouts removed it will be really easy to catch up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashidon

well really i am not even talking about the new dungeon anymore xD most my comments have been against how people feel certain items becoming farmable and not capped and hard to get as it has been.

I for one am happy that they are removing the Caps/Lockouts.
03-09-2014, 06:00 AM
Alvarion

I just don't understand the mindset where a new player should have access to all content upon reaching lvl 50. No. They should have to earn that right. Period. With caps and lockouts being removed, there should be no reason for the game to regress in content. That's what setting the ilvl for the "new" dungeon does, it stagnates any sort of sense of progression. The ONLY reason people will run this new dungeon is if it contains another way for us to obtain the new tomestones. However, that is the only reward. Allowing fresh players to COMPLETELY SKIP old content is wrong. They have completely taken out the sense of progression.

Wanting to have the ilvl increased for the new dungeon has nothing to do with wanting to make the content easier or give more room for error. In fact, it should be that much more difficult. This new dungeon will never pose a challenge to players who significantly out gear it. Again, now there's no sense of accomplishment or progression from having to EARN the NEW gear as there should be. But alas, the new players that just hit 50 should be able to do it like everyone else!
03-09-2014, 06:06 AM
Arkista

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashidon

that has been my point all along people don't want the cap removed because they had to work with it so everyone else should have to.

^^ ohhh sorry I got you now.

Well people have to get over that. If SE kept lockouts then new players would never catch up. Like you said would take 2 years to get caught up.

What I mean is that new players will have to gear out to do content. But with no lockouts it will only take a few days/weeks to catch up. Because even though it wouldn't take very long for someone to catch up in ilvls SE is making gear obsolete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvarion

snip

I'm all for harder dungeons and players having to progress. But at the same time I don't feel like a dungeon we have to grind hundreds of times should be so difficult that no ones wants to do them but are forced to. That's how we got stuck with Speed Runs at Launch.

But... As better gear becomes easier and easier to obtain, I do feel like Content should have higher requirements. Look at Crystal Tower that place has become trash because of the low ilvl requirement everyone just wants to Spirit Bond there.
03-09-2014, 07:16 AM
Alvarion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkista

I'm all for harder dungeons and players having to progress. But at the same time I don't feel like a dungeon we have to grind hundreds of times should be so difficult that no ones wants to do them but are forced to. That's how we got stuck with Speed Runs at Launch.

So long as content is required for anything to do with progression, speed runs will always be a thing regardless of difficulty.
03-09-2014, 07:53 AM
Meimei

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkista

Pharos Sirius is not hard as long as you're overgeared to extremes.

FTFY

Pharos Sirirus was very poorly tuned. The i48 requirement is a lie, because there's simply no reliable way to dodge Siren's dash 100% of the time, due to a mix of the poor server latency and her unpredictable nature, it's unfathomably luck based.

If you're overgeared, it's easy to just group up in the center and heal through the damage. Assuming the healer has half a brain (majority of them don't.) If you're undergeared, you better hope you get lucky within her random, unpredictable pattern. There's no other way you'll survive that dash. (Which has too large of a radius as well.)

This is why people don't like Pharos. SE themselves admitted it was overtuned and plan to change it. Necessary nerf is necessary.

Do try to learn your lesson with new dungeon content, SE. "Learn or die" is preferable over completely random and overtuned mechanics.
03-09-2014, 09:03 AM
Nekodar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sessurea

idk man...

All content previous 2.2 can be steamrolled after 2.2. The old 5 month grind as u say, is now a 1-2 week grind, with a new 5 month grind added on at the end.

Having high ilvl at the start of 2.2 is little advantage. And why speak of advantages anyways? this is a pve carebear game with zero competition, unless you include world 1sts or w/e. I'm pretty sure new players don't want to rush to the newest content, as if it was just a formality. Why can't all content and steps of the ladder be relevant and seen as fun?

If you think the average player is going to do that 1-2 week grind to catch up, you're dead wrong...
The average player is going to need much more than that.

"Hardcore" players might do it in 1-2 weeks after they hit 50 with a fresh character, but if that "hardcore" player have an fc with lots of gil, that player can be instantly i70 (or i90 if that's what the next crafting cap is) without having to grind at all.

It's up to players if they want to have fun or rush through things...
03-09-2014, 11:26 AM
Teuciont

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namasu

words

This is exactly the problem. More content that will be completely invalidated as soon as it comes out. Fresh 50s have had enough time to play "catch up."
03-09-2014, 12:15 PM
Arkghyom

ilvl10 Now!
03-09-2014, 08:03 PM
Sessurea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekodar

If you think the average player is going to do that 1-2 week grind to catch up, you're dead wrong...
The average player is going to need much more than that.

"Hardcore" players might do it in 1-2 weeks after they hit 50 with a fresh character, but if that "hardcore" player have an fc with lots of gil, that player can be instantly i70 (or i90 if that's what the next crafting cap is) without having to grind at all.

It's up to players if they want to have fun or rush through things...

I did ilvl 83 in a month with lockouts. There isn't even the possibility to be hardcore atm lol. I think an average player would do it in about 2 weeks.
03-09-2014, 09:06 PM
Warlyx

ppl will be full ilvl 90 in 1 week , so this new dungeon is a waste of resources.

i would love to see how many times ppl finished Pharos :rolleyes: or Hard mode dungeons.
03-10-2014, 12:18 AM
Namasu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teuciont

This is exactly the problem. More content that will be completely invalidated as soon as it comes out. Fresh 50s have had enough time to play "catch up."

Which makes me wonder how Yoshi-P thinks this game could have survive on a 300~400k sub as a niche MMO when his goal seems to be just constantly bumping out more fresh lvl50 contents for new players to catch up instead of focusing more time on popularly demanded gameplay features. The playerbase will shed constantly all the time but I think the most important demographic of FF14 isn't the ones that just hit lvl50 compared to the older players who have been playing AND paying for months.
03-10-2014, 01:03 AM
Musashidon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namasu

Which makes me wonder how Yoshi-P thinks this game could have survive on a 300~400k sub as a niche MMO when his goal seems to be just constantly bumping out more fresh lvl50 contents for new players to catch up instead of focusing more time on popularly demanded gameplay features. The playerbase will shed constantly all the time but I think the most important demographic of FF14 isn't the ones that just hit lvl50 compared to the older players who have been playing AND paying for months.

but every single patch he gives beginning lvl 50s and vet lvl 50's content every single patch he has so far never made a patch soley for fresh 50's

what you're asking for is something i would never want, you want him to prioritize players who have paid more then the ones just starting.
whats wrong with fair? everyone gets content. this is the way it should be.
03-10-2014, 01:12 AM
Doo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashidon

but every single patch he gives beginning lvl 50s and vet lvl 50's content every single patch he has so far never made a patch soley for fresh 50's

Don't really need to make patches for fresh 50s since the nerf stuff is still new to them :D. New players will have plenty to do than vets and it will always be like this.
03-10-2014, 01:30 AM
Makado

Why are people complaining about this? Your not going to be forced into playing with brand new i55 people. You can just form groups with your friends or make a PF group with the ilvl you desire.
03-10-2014, 01:32 AM
Tupsi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makado

Why are people complaining about this? Your not going to be forced into playing with brand new i55 people.

Someone has never done Duty Roulette. Don't say you have done it or else you wouldn't have stated this.
03-10-2014, 01:49 AM
Teuciont

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makado

Why are people complaining about this? Your not going to be forced into playing with brand new i55 people. You can just form groups with your friends or make a PF group with the ilvl you desire.

The complaint stems from the fact that people that have been playing the game for 6 months now have one less thing to look forward to grinding while fresh 50s get even more despite having more than enough to do already.
03-10-2014, 02:21 AM
Gilraen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tupsi

Someone has never done Duty Roulette. Don't say you have done it or else you wouldn't have stated this.

I use Roulette all the time and I have no idea what there is to be angry about. Yes, you get new people sometimes. Guess what, we were ALL new at some point to every piece of content the game has, get over yourselves. Instead of raging about the newbies getting into your precious content why not, novel as it sounds, show them how to run the content. Tell them where and what the tricks are. Teach them just like someone taught you! This is an MMO first and foremost. You want a singleplayer game that has some multiplayer aspects and an RPG feel, go play a Souls game. You can even scratch that hardcore itch with it while you're at it.
03-10-2014, 02:43 AM
Sotek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tupsi

Someone has never done Duty Roulette. Don't say you have done it or else you wouldn't have stated this.

Sorry, but I get more grief from people who apparently aren't new with Duty Roulette Pharos, than I do with players who are new to it. New players generally ask what to do, and then don't fail it provided the explanation was in order. "Experienced" players "know" what to do and still find a way to mess it up, even when you then explain it to them, assuming they didn't waste everyones time by leaving instantly.

It really doesn't matter what iLv they set these dungeons to, because iLv isn't a measure of competence. Terrible players will still be terrible, no matter how high their iLv is. Most of the mechanics in this game people fail don't even have anything to do with iLv; it doesn't matter how high your iLv is, if you stand in the wrong place you're going to get knocked off at Demon Wall. All a higher iLv does is speed up fights. That's it.
03-10-2014, 02:47 AM
Namasu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teuciont

The complaint stems from the fact that people that have been playing the game for 6 months now have one less thing to look forward to grinding while fresh 50s get even more despite having more than enough to do already.

This is pretty much it. It isn't elitism, content locust, or casual vs hardcore war. The big picture in this kind of thread is loyal paying players wanting the game to succeed in the long term with a variety of challenging contents. From what we see in the developer previews and interviews, this game is only going be more imbalanced and skewed in favor of fresh lvl50s players who already have plenty on their plate.

I hope Yoshi realize quick that he can't continue to spoonfeed new players forever to replace the starving long term supporters who are on the verge of giving up. I wish they would release a new roadmap so we can see what we are getting into for the next 6 months and decide to resub from there.
03-10-2014, 04:59 AM
Makado

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tupsi

Someone has never done Duty Roulette. Don't say you have done it or else you wouldn't have stated this.

I do have been doing DF all the time to get my levels (on my last job to 50 atm) or when I want to cap myth or whatever. I never have any high expectations going in, because you simply can't, because you are bound to run into newer less experienced players sometimes. The point o was making is you don't need to use DF. Its not required. If your using it and thinking your going to get full max ilvls who know it all your wrong. That's what PF or making your own premade party is for. I join planning to explain and help every run if needed.
03-10-2014, 05:07 AM
Nekodar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tupsi

Someone has never done Duty Roulette. Don't say you have done it or else you wouldn't have stated this.

Are you saying that you're forced into the duty roulette? That you have no option of not using it?
03-10-2014, 05:34 AM
UMiahNaweh

I personally was looking forward to 4-man content that would actually be challenging to a full party of i90 players. I thought Amdapor would be that, given Yoshi's "hardest dungeon yet" statement, but the ilvl55 minimum suggests that it will not be difficult for those of us who are geared. This is really disappointing, because since the dungeon gives out the new tomes, we know we'll all be running that dungeon a lot, but we won't have to earn our tomes, we'll just walk in there and press some buttons and they'll be handed to us. I want that difficulty back from launch week AK when everyone went in there with AF, garbage accessories, and level 38 weapons. I want new 4-man content for end-game players, and it's really disappointing that Amdapor Township isn't that.
03-10-2014, 06:33 AM
Arkista

Quote:

Originally Posted by UMiahNaweh

snip.

To me it seems like a lot of people Don't want a challenge in this game, Everyone wants more silver platters. Someone saying, "Oh you want a challenge play with a under geared player" That's not a challenge, That's carrying someone. Or "If you want a challenge then put on some low level gear", No Thanks I didn't just spend the last 5 months gearing just so I had to lower my gear to get a challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teuciont

The complaint stems from the fact that people that have been playing the game for 6 months now have one less thing to look forward to grinding while fresh 50s get even more despite having more than enough to do already.

I really don't think the Dev Team thought it all out. When they said Caps/lockouts would be lifted I was shocked. I figured they would just raise the Myth cap to like 750-800 and reduce CoB lockout to like 72hrs.

Way I see it play 2.2 for about a month or so and come back for 2.4 and play catch up every 5-6 months.
03-10-2014, 06:55 AM
Musashidon

i don't see the problem not all content has to be harder then the content before it, content is distributed evenly all this is comming down to is i deserve more content gimme gimme.
03-10-2014, 09:45 AM
Arkista

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashidon

i don't see the problem not all content has to be harder then the content before it, content is distributed evenly all this is comming down to is i deserve more content gimme gimme.

I think overall some want ilvl to mean difficulty and some want ilvl to mean progression. I don't think it will ever be one in the same. And atm it mean nothing other than people demanding others to be high as possible to faceroll content. I think SE did ok with the requirements on the EX Primals, And only reason I say that is because we didn't have CT at launch. But everything else was just to low.

Gear is so easy to obtain in this game outside of lockouts/caps. Why do they need to make every new dungeon have such a low ilvl? They can't use "Well casual players wont be able to access it" as an answer. They also don't have to make everything be max ilvl. Maybe one day ilvl will have a real meaning in this game.........
03-10-2014, 02:18 PM
Namasu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashidon

i don't see the problem not all content has to be harder then the content before it, content is distributed evenly all this is comming down to is i deserve more content gimme gimme.

By all mean give me any content, whether it is hard or easy as long as it is designed with a good lifespan and entertainment value. So far, the dev have not demonstrate this with the new dungeons in 2.1. Yes it's something new for everybody to farm tomes and give mediocre gears to fresh lvl50s, but there is not much value to redoing this. There is no additional quests involved with these dungeons and very little incentives whatsoever. I don't know anyone in my circle of 100+ friends and fc members who think these contents are worth the time and I play with casual and endgame heavy players alike.

So tell me then, what's wrong with players like me and the ones on this forum continually asking for better quality content in the long term? I would buy it if there is a horde of new players jumping on this forum asking for the opposite of what I'm asking, but I just don't see it, and so I fail to understand why the FF14 team believe that it is worth their resource to continue down this path.
03-10-2014, 02:30 PM
Musashidon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namasu

So tell me then, what's wrong with players like me and the ones on this forum continually asking for better quality content in the long term? I would buy it if there is a horde of new players jumping on this forum asking for the opposite of what I'm asking, but I just don't see it, and so I fail to understand why the FF14 team believe that it is worth their resource to continue down this path.

while i can't prove how many people want this content i will say it like this. people who like the game are on the game playing it and having fun.
should the few (not actually few i just mean all of them in general) on the forums wanting the game to change affect the game for the many on the game having fun not worrying about going on the forums cause the game is how they want?

now explain how they are supose to make a dungeon have a longer lifespan. once you do a dungeon you have done it every time will be the same, this goes for any game you play.
03-10-2014, 02:37 PM
Zumi

I am for out with the old in with the new dungeons. Did AK and WP so many times I don't want to be doing them more in the next patch. Sounds like the new dungeons, coil 6-9 and levithian will be the only places to get new tombs and I am 100% ok with that because we did so much of the old dungeons last patch that I am pretty tired of running them.
03-10-2014, 02:49 PM
Nestama

Just make Siren's Feral Lunge have an AoE indicator and suddenly her fight will be a lot easier to heal (since you won't be looking for her amongst the crystals and 9 out of 10 times she'll always be behind you). Stun Lunatic Voice all the time and she'll be a joke. Pharos Sirius' current ilvl is fiiine. The slower your DPS against bosses (I don't consider Tyrant a boss), the better.

I main SCH for that dungeon and I DF it all the time. If I get it as a DR (and with new people to teach), even better. I love that place and love teaching everyone about the boss mechanics... if the tank doesn't rush into the boss room before I can even start explaining (had a few wipes on Mama Zu because the newbie DD's had no idea they're only suppose to kill one egg).
03-10-2014, 03:25 PM
Namasu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashidon

while i can't prove how many people want this content i will say it like this. people who like the game are on the game playing it and having fun.
should the few (not actually few i just mean all of them in general) on the forums wanting the game to change affect the game for the many on the game having fun not worrying about going on the forums cause the game is how they want?

now explain how they are supose to make a dungeon have a longer lifespan. once you do a dungeon you have done it every time will be the same, this goes for any game you play.

Yes you are right, we have no good way to quantify the % of players that fall into so and so categories, but my point is based more on the common sense of a player who are subscribing for a long term service. In a way, I'd like to compare it to subscribing to a niche magazine about something like say linux computer administration. The magazine would of course have sections devoted to newcomers who are just getting into Linux computing, and that is fine and great to grow the reader-base. However if there is too many contents written for that fresh group, I'm sure the dedicated readers would start to question the direction of the magazine and would ask why it isn't just renamed "Linux for dummies monthly" instead. At this point, most of the old readers might simply find a different magazine to read or unsubscribe altogether.

Again, I won't claim that the vocal minority on the forum reflect the whole, but I think my experience in game with other players and basic desire for a better service speak enough.

Lastly, I can start writing you a whole essay on how I could theorize ways to make long lasting dungeons but it would just fall on deaf ears. People would just say that I am playing armchair game dev without an actual degree in the field and it would not benefit me or you. I actually gave you a freebie and implied in my previous post that we should have more quests involving dungeons (yes, many MMOs I've played gave plenty of quests that make dungeons worth repeating) if you've noticed but there is little to no chance that the community rep would read this or even forward my ideas to the dev. You might think that I'm just making an excuse, but I'd rather just focus on talking about the overall direction that this game need instead of throwing out the same ideas that can be elsewhere on the forum.

/end of discussion until tomorrow
03-10-2014, 03:53 PM
Musashidon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namasu

Yes you are right, we have no good way to quantify the % of players that fall into so and so categories, but my point is based more on the common sense of a player who are subscribing for a long term service. In a way, I'd like to compare it to subscribing to a niche magazine about something like say linux computer administration. The magazine would of course have sections devoted to newcomers who are just getting into Linux computing, and that is fine and great to grow the reader-base. However if there is too many contents written for that fresh group, I'm sure the dedicated readers would start to question the direction of the magazine and would ask why it isn't just renamed "Linux for dummies monthly" instead. At this point, most of the old readers might simply find a different magazine to read or unsubscribe altogether.

well this simply comes down to target audience, if i make a basic magazine for helping people learn more about some system then it will be more on basics and less on the more complicated part.
the bad thing about 14 is arr is the remake the orginal version was way less casual and you had more things that are considered hardcore.
now the game is more casual and player friendly it lost alot of its mechanics that was considered hardcore or less player friendly, now they are release content as packs like some end game some not, and some players don't like that because they can blow through content and need more to chew up and if the content isn't relevant then it's pretty much garbage to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namasu

Again, I won't claim that the vocal minority on the forum reflect the whole, but I think my experience in game with other players and basic desire for a better service speak enough.
Lastly, I can start writing you a whole essay on how I could theorize ways to make long lasting dungeons but it would just fall on deaf ears. People would just say that I am playing armchair game dev without an actual degree in the field and it would not benefit me or you. I actually gave you a freebie and implied in my previous post that we should have more quests involving dungeons (yes, many MMOs I've played gave plenty of quests that make dungeons worth repeating) if you've noticed but there is little to no chance that the community rep would read this or even forward my ideas to the dev. You might think that I'm just making an excuse, but I'd rather just focus on talking about the overall direction that this game need instead of throwing out the same ideas that can be elsewhere on the forum.
/end of discussion until tomorrow

what i mean is, there isn't much to actually make a dungeon last longer (besides making it longer) giving a quest will give a player 1 reason to enter but not much more, give it a item with a low drop rate is the same thing as giving it tomes with a cap. it's just a different gimmick for different players, some like it some don't.
now i guess you could do other things like say make a fun dungeon that lore wise would have like a specific mount drop but it's still the same thing a gimmick a thing to make people redo something they have already done.

it doesn't make a dungeon funner it just wastes peoples time enough to get them to do it more.
which is what i mean how do you make a dungeon fun that people wil want to do it over and over? the answer that i have is you don't you just throw something tasty and hard to get in there and laugh as they try so hard and for so long to get it.
03-10-2014, 04:12 PM
Mirakumi

All I know is that when the new patch is out - I'll probably make a bee-line for this dungeon before people make the go-to forever skipping pharos move. lol
04-09-2014, 07:50 AM
PenutButter

The reason no one does this place has little to do with the ilv requirement; in fact, save for the sake of complaining, few actually give a damn about it. The main reason is that the rewards are too low compare to the other HM; why would you spend the time and effort in this place when you do SR Brayflox for the same reward? The few who care the "the challenge" will only do this place once; you would think SE figured this out already.

If you're so concerned about "wasting your time," why are you even running this place? Use Party Finder if you must run it, you can set whatever ridiculous requirements you want there. Of course, you won't get many takers, since they can just run Brayflox. Save everyone the headache and time by not using the Duty Finder.

Raising the ilv will not stop you from running into noob players or elitists who rage quit after 1 wipe, especially, as you say, gear is so easy to get.

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