Realistically speaking, if they actually made a story mode of Coil, people will play it and then realize the story in it totally sucks and complain about it, so they might as well not bother. Almost invariably the lore in a raid instance redefines how low you can set the bar for lore in a MMORPG, which is set pretty low to begin with. You really should just fire up Youtube and then you'll quickly realize you're not missing anything.
That said I don't fault people for believing in hope.
Coil mode for main story
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12-04-2013, 04:29 AMAstarica
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12-04-2013, 04:33 AMFaeddenI'm not being antagonistic at all. I just find it hilarious/annoying that you guys want things handed to you. Yeah by asking for raid content to be nerfed so you can finish the story is asking for stuff to be handed to you. To finish the story you need to beat the content that's already SUPER easy. I came straight from Aion where there's level 30 dungeons with level 50 mobs and the shortest dungeon run is 45 minutes and that's skipping darn near everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
We gave you the reasons why, you just don't want to accept them. Those of you who don't know, the way games work this is how it goes; you level up, learn new skills, progress, content gets harder, you get better. You said you just made it up to stone vigil, so you haven't even tried coil yet and you're ALREADY asking for an easy mode. Why? You keep going on about how you can't do "this" and "that" but you're clearing content just fine. So what you died at the end when the boss was nearly dead. In my book that's beating it. Even a good gamer die here and there. But you haven't even tried. You just want it handed to you.
So why are you asking for RAID content to be nerfed? The story tied to coil could be only a raid story and if you want to see it you have to.....wait for it......raid! In other non hello kitty mmorpgs there are no red lines on the floor telling you were the AOE is going to be. Trust me I've played ALOT of em not just final fantasy. It'll say the boss is casting "super awesome skill" then you have less than a second and you get hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunarie
Oh and I used to be a role-player, only cared about the lore and story just like you guys. I still never asked for content to be nerfed, I just learned how to play. ;)
I don't enjoy the grind, I hate it BUT I understand that it's what needs to be done to continue playing the game and doing content that I want to do. If it's something you want to do work for it!Quote:
Originally Posted by AvonRekaes
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12-04-2013, 04:33 AMTrystWildkeyI have no motivation to play end game right now. I have no motivation to do end game grinding ever. It's not the part that I enjoy about MMO's. It's not what keeps me playing, and never will be. What keeps me playing are the quests, side quests, storylines, crafting especially. The crafting storylines didn't require hard-core grindiness and I enjoyed every single one of them. I still haven't completed the majority of the side quests already in the game. 2.1 will bring even more stuff to keep me happy. Daily beastmen quests, treasure maps, housing, crafting furniture for housing. End game is not necessary to keep me playing this game. Keeping the storyline about Bahamut and Louisoix out of reach behind content I may never be able to beat is more likely to cause me to stop playing. Besides, the majority of end gamers don't want me in their content anyway, which is becoming increasingly clear with every response.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaiHai
I think this is a fundamental difference between our play styles that makes people misunderstand my motivations. Gear and end game content does not and will not keep me playing, ever. FFXI lost my subscription after more than 7 years when it created a skill and gear barrier against me experiencing the new content (Delve weapons anyone?). A fleshed out world with lots of *different* content keeps me playing. And yes, that includes the storyline.
EDIT: I do not want the existing content nerfed for everyone. I want an alternative. Like AvonRekaes said above, we get to fight Titan in story mode, and then there's hard mode for gear grinding. Is that bad? Is the story mode's 'nerfed' content disrupting the game for you?
Also, alright, I'll admit it, I want the Bahamut storyline handed to me. I've waited over a year to find out what happened after the End of an Era video. I've gone through the ridiculous story about the primals, whom I've already beaten once in 1.23. I've gone and fetched cheese from a dragon, I've re-done the class quests, I've leveled a whole new class/job, I've opened the armory system again, I've opened the new Arcanist class, I've learned how to craft things all over again with this new system, I've explored the reborn realm. I want the Bahamut storyline. Walling it off behind content I may not ever get to beat does not motivate me to keep playing. -
12-04-2013, 04:53 AMLukahn
Like I said, BC will become easier, that's a fact. We are all waiting on something. And crafting not being "grindy?" Dude, I'm leveling all my crafts to 50 and I feel like i'm in a grinding nightmare, haha.
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12-04-2013, 04:54 AMSunarieUhm.. I'm not asking for content to be nerfed thanks, in fact.. in other threads I've stated I'd be happy if the current dungeons never received nerfs. I'm saying I don't care if they make an entirely separate dungeon only for the story with either no gear, or gear that isn't anywhere near on par with what you get out of Coil. Two totally different things. One decreases the challenge of content for me, and one keeps my challenge the same while allowing people who don't like raiding, and instead play for immersion and story.. to see story stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedden
I raid just fine, my skill is just fine. Also, I've played Tera, Aion, WoW, Rift, SWtoR, Shadowbane, Ultima Online, and several several F2P MMOs.. the F2P ones I didn't get to end game on, but I certainly played end game for the others.. and guess what? You always get a warning. It's not always a red circle, but there is -always- a warning when a skill is dodgeable. Any of the newer subscription based MMOs (aside from Final Fantasy) also have an easier and a harder mode for the dungeon.
You're still not understanding two totally different playstyles. In the vast majority of MMOs, lore is not kept behind a raid wall.. and for the majority of people who follow the lore, they don't want to raid and don't find it fun. That isn't why they play the game, that isn't what keeps them playing, and if you're going to lock their content behind raid content they are more likely to just quit because it does not fit their play style. It almost sounds like you're bitter you had to change your playstyle to meet a goal in this game, or possibly another (IE suddenly you had to grind), and just want everyone else to have to follow suit. Doing end game just isn't fun for some people.. and that doesn't mean MMOs are not for them, it means that playstyle isn't.
Good MMOs offer content to both groups of players (and even cater to other players outside of these, as it's not black and white), and don't force one group into content they don't want. Imagine the complaining you'd see if lore was forced upon everyone through unskippable cutscenes (all cutscenes, not just a few being unskippable, though I've already seen lots of people complain about the few that are currently unskippable), where all quests had voice overs and you had to listen to the quest NPC say -everything- before you accepted the quest.
If you were on my server.. you could totally come with my FC. I won't pretend we would be able to take you right away for every fight (we actually are overstocked on tanks).. but we're much more relaxed with learning curves than most raid environments are. Different servers though, and we'd have to have a puggable spot open if you didn't actually join the FC.. FC members get priority and all that jazz :(Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
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12-04-2013, 05:07 AMAstarica
In RIFT they have basically personal version of major raids that had trivial rewards, so that it serves as solo content and also for the lore guys who really want to know what happened in some raid. I doubt SE have the time to do anything like that given how lacking this game is in even very fundamental aspects, but I wouldn't mind if they just have a solo instance that has no reward that has Papalymo tanking everything in turn 1-5 at the same time while Minfillia gets trapped in a Conflagaration and the player have 5 minutes to break her out of it, and doing that gets you credit to see what happens for clearing Coil.
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12-04-2013, 05:07 AMEvokerKeiiThe immediate fault I see with your argument is that you are setting up a strawman.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenzieLynch
This isn't about hardcore vs casual.
This isn't us vs them.
Not every person who is for an easy mode is a casual.
Not every person against an easy mode is a hardcore.
Not every hardcore is an elitist.
Not every casual is a bad player.
Not every casual wants free handouts.
Not even a majority. -
12-04-2013, 05:08 AMEvokerKeii
This is about putting in the work to get the reward.
Coil is casual friendly (except turn 5; full clear in an hour)
Coil is puggable (except turn 5)
Coil IS getting tuned down for more player access in a future patch.
What is the big problem here?
What I'm seeing is a handful of players who are upset because they have to work a little bit harder or wait a little bit longer to see an arguably optional side story.
It's not as if you're excluded forever. It's going to be made easier, just in time. -
12-04-2013, 05:17 AMKenzieLynchQuote:
Originally Posted by EvokerKeii
It is impossible to debate something to do with community without generalising.
You're nitpicking doesn't negate my points at all, infact you didn't really say anything. Stop trying to act smart and try and put forth an actual opinion on the topic if you want to take part in the discussion. -
12-04-2013, 05:22 AMFaeddenQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunarie
No mmorpg I have ever played has given as much of a warning as this one does and I've played almost every one out there. I don't know where you get the idea that i'm bitter cause I had to change my play style lmao. I never HAD to change my play style, my play style is still the same. The difference is I work to get better to be able to complete content to see the story. You guys are like "I wan't that, but I don't want to work to get it" You think grinding is fun? It isn't, not even in the slightest, I hate it, specially on here since its a awful token system, but in order to do Coil and future content or whatever I want to do. I work towards it and get it done not just ask for a easy mode button. Raiding may not be fun for some people, but they wan't the story. So work for it the same as people that only want the gear. I hate crafting, like, really bad! But instead of asking for a crafting nerf button I get it done so I can repair and socket my own gear. Not to mention, it's optional. If the was part of a main story line then yeah I would agree, but a story mode raid? Nope. I hope it never happens. -
12-04-2013, 05:28 AMHaiHaiYou say you don't care about endgame, or raiding, and yet you want to participate in a storyline that takes place only within a certain raid dungeon. Why do you even care about what is going on within coil if you don't care about coil at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
You are simply just another player who want's all of the rewards without any of the work that other players put in to receive them. No different then me saying I want to participate in all of the crafting class quests and stories but I don't want to actually spend the time and effort to level them up. They should totally put in an easy class quest system for all of the crafting and battle classes too, so I can see all of the story lines without having to do any work to see them.
That's basically exactly what you are asking for with coil story. I want to see all of the coil story and content, but I don't want to put in any of the effort that other players are in order to see it. -
12-04-2013, 05:38 AMSunarieSigh..Sigh.. look at my gear, look me up on the lodestone. I do the grinding. I am not saying that I personally want anything. I like my challenge, I like to raid.. I don't mind the grind to get to the point where I can raid. That's -my- playstyle. I am saying that I wouldn't care at all if they implemented something that doesn't at all effect my playstyle, or anyone else's really. I don't approve of people telling others to adjust their playstyle, and most modern MMOs don't do that either. You said in an earlier post that other MMOs don't give warning, I was arguing they do. I even stated that some require quicker reactions and some slower reactions than this game. My point was the warning was there when you said some games don't offer it. I will still stand by that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedden
I like challenge, that works for me.. challenge varies by individual though. Some people find challenge in getting all the achievements in a game, or collecting all the pets. Some find it in getting the best gear, or completing the hardest content. Some people just want to explore and find lore. Some people are a mix. Good MMOs should cater to a variety of that. FFXIV doesn't really have side stories, or a whole lot of discoverable (or at least noticeably discoverable) lore outside of the Coil side story. So they've essentially locked what little content there is for lore folks, behind a wall that most lore folks just aren't going to deal with.
Other games, are instead trying to find ways to get access to those things to those people without having to ruin the experience for everyone else. WoW introduced the LFR thing to try and get raiding access, and therefore boss access, to more people (I am not looking to argue whether that was a good or bad change, but more to argue they're trying to get access for the lore folks.. a good summation of my thoughts on it can be found here: http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/05/29/ho...warcraft-lore/). Rift has easier and hard modes for dungeons (and even solo-events), Tera has the same, and GW2 even had story and explore modes for their dungeons.
I get the bitter thing from the attitude of "this is what I had to do, so everyone else should have to do it to". Nevermind life requirements, or what people consider fun. Your way is the correct way, and if people don't do it that way they don't deserve story. Sorry, but I don't buy into that. The extremely sad part about it is, there are so many people that completely dismiss the story for Coil.. they shrug it off, tell people they aren't missing much, skip cutscenes, and so on. It quite obviously isn't appreciated by the current crowd completing the content, and if it's so insignificant, why not open it up? -
12-04-2013, 05:44 AMTrystWildkeyI don't care about the gear rewards in Coil. I don't care about the status that comes with clearing the hardest content. I want the storyline content only. That's why I'd like a story-mode coil. Walling off the main storyline behind the hardest possible content does not make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaiHai
I think you're not reading my whole posts. I don't want the rewards. I want the lore experience. The crafting storylines are not placed behind the hardest content available. And I've done the grinding necessary to see them all (in fact, I did it the hard way, without using leves and HQ hand-ins). Where are you seeing that I don't want to do any work? (As an aside, since when should video games be work ^^ ) If the crafting class quests had content that was integral to the storyline, I would fully support there being an easier way to see them. But, simply, they don't. Coil is the only main storyline content walled off, again, by the hardest available content. It's not the fact that it's work to get there, or that it's difficult, it's that it's the hardest content in the game. Are you starting to understand?Quote:
Originally Posted by HaiHai
Again, you're not reading my entire posts, or are willfully ignoring parts of them. I do not want absolutely everything handed to me, and I don't want rewards without work. I want to experience the Bahamut story. For this, and only this, situation it's not about effort or work, it's about the fact that my gaming skills, my reaction time, my coordination, my ability to pick up on and appropriately respond to patterns and boss mechanics, is just NOT up to the standards needed to beat the hardest available content in the game. In fact, Coil may be the ONLY content I won't eventually be able to beat, because it's the hardest available content in the game. Yet, the Bahamut storyline is walled behind it. How does that make sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by HaiHai
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12-04-2013, 05:46 AMEvokerKeiiYou can certainly try. But it's hard right? So give up without trying and complain about it? I am starting to see where your coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenzieLynch
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12-04-2013, 05:46 AMEvokerKeiiI have already commented with my opinion on a few occasions.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenzieLynch
If you want the story without the work, ie cutscene mode, go to YouTube.
If you want the story and are willing to work for it, put together or join a group and clear Coil.
If you want the story and are willing to work but can't, wait a couple months for the content difficulty to be reduced which is already planned.
If you want the story and are willing to work but can't but you want it now because other people have it now and you want it and it's not fair because that guy has seen it and it's not fair and you want it, then tough. Too bad. -
12-04-2013, 05:51 AMMaziProbably the best thing said on the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by EvokerKeii
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12-04-2013, 05:53 AMFaeddenThe "you guys" is more directed at the people ASKING for it. I don't think that my way is the only/right way. I was using my self as an example. The role player, lore lover, etc. How I put my big girl pants on and learned how to get better to do whatever to finish the story. And the fact is, they just want things handed to them I mean let's be real. NO ONE likes to do things in games they don't want too and it's stuff like that in almost every game. This generation of gamers now just think they are so special they don't have too and they can just demand it or threaten to leave/quitQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunarie
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
I don't know how I missed that twice. Gotta work for the storyline that's the point of games! To become the hero and work hard to save the world. Idk why people think the story line isn't part of the rewards...it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
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12-04-2013, 06:03 AMTrystWildkeyAs I stated in my most recent post:Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedden
I do not want absolutely everything handed to me, and I don't want rewards without work. I want to experience the Bahamut story. For this, and only this, situation it's not about effort or work, it's about the fact that my gaming skills, my reaction time, my coordination, my ability to pick up on and appropriately respond to patterns and boss mechanics, is just NOT up to the standards needed to beat the hardest available content in the game. In fact, Coil may be the ONLY content I won't eventually be able to beat, because it's the hardest available content in the game. Yet, the Bahamut storyline is walled behind it. How does that make sense? -
12-04-2013, 06:07 AMKenzieLynchQuote:
Originally Posted by EvokerKeii
Well, that's your opinion and you are entitled too it.
I flat out disagree, and do not think story content such as this should be wrapped up in end game. That is my opinion. -
12-04-2013, 06:08 AMSunarieI disagree. Telling people that the only way to achieve something that's within their playstyle, by performing a task that isn't really suited to players of that playstyle is, in fact, telling them to change their playstyle. That means telling people that the only way to play (whether you're an achievement hunter, lore collector, gear collector, or what have you) is to do end game for your goals. That's forcing everyone into the same playstyle. You all have to be this skilled, you all have to be this coordinated, you all have to have this much time to grind gear, and you all have to complete this specific content. Most game are trying to reduce that and broaden their playerbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedden
I also rarely see people who actually want gear handed to them (and the way I read Tryst saying it was more sarcastic defeat at all the people telling him that's what he wanted, not as in he was seriously saying that's what he wanted.. I keep seeing him say he wants to do the dungeon, just at a lesser difficulty that's still challenging for him, but actually possible). The problem with that statement is that you are assuming a fight is the same difficulty level for everyone. When in fact, something I consider easy can be very challenging to someone else. I use to date a guy who just didn't "get" things with MMOs. This was during my WoW era. I would show him strategies for DPS, I would send him theorycrafting things, I would explain rotations, when to dodge, and everything. He just couldn't do it, it took him forever to learn and in the end his reaction time would never ever be up to par to complete the hardest content in the game. That took a lot of adjusting for me because I just couldn't wrap my mind around how he didn't get stuff after so much explaining and practice. Normal mode fights for him, posed more difficulty than the hard mode fights for me. He did -more- work than most people I know of, and got less out of it because of natural limitations.
I would venture to say more people fit into his category than those that are skilled. WoW didn't "spoil" everyone. WoW brought several millions of people into the MMO industry by offering content that was challenging for people on several levels. The down side to that (if you can even call it a downside) is that with several millions of people introduced to MMOs, the majority of people probably aren't those that can easily pick up on a fight and do it.. and there are going to be a ton of people that flat out don't have the reaction time. That's why modern MMOs are essentially being forced to adjust. They basically have to offer content for all types. Do I view doing the easier stuff as things getting handed to me? Sure.. but I can also recognize that doesn't mean it requires no work for anyone.
A lesser difficulty of Coil effects me in no way, shape, or form. I am still going to do that challenging version, I'm still going to go for the best gear. It doesn't just give freebie handouts to people, well.. for some people who are only interested in the story, and capable of completing Coil as is.. they may take the easy way out, just like some people take the easy way out of the dungeon grind by using exploits, or skipping mobs, to make bosses easier and dungeons shorter. Gamers do that... but I would imagine that the people who will actually be doing the content will still find it engaging and challenging. I didn't see anywhere someone asking for an instant "I win" button, or having the bosses with zero mechanics and so on. It's not about cutting out the work completely. It's more about balancing the work versus reward for multiple skill sets. -
12-04-2013, 06:10 AMEvokerKeii
I just checked YouTube. There's a turn 1 full run with cutscenes. I'm on a phone so I can't copy the URL from the app but I know it's there. Turn 2 through 4 have no story.
I haven't beaten turn 5 yet so I'm not trying to spoil it for myself by finding a video for you. -
12-04-2013, 06:14 AMKenzieLynchDo you really want to be the guy who uses that argument? that we should just go to YouTube?Quote:
Originally Posted by EvokerKeii
If so then I'll just end the discussion here. I'm flat out uninterested in any person who thinks that's a viable debate. (just an FYI, i'm on Turn 4. It doesn't change my viewpoint on the matter) -
12-04-2013, 06:16 AMMyrhn
You get the "story mode" "easy mode" in a couple of months when they tone it down. Happy now?
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12-04-2013, 06:25 AMFaeddenWe can disagree until the cows come home. I get that somethings are harder for others so they can either A. Get better. B. Give up. C. YouTube. D. Wait until the nerf hammer comes when newer content comes out. All of that is find and dandy if it was the main story line buut it's not. It's optional I know at the end of the day I don't get to decide if there's going to be a story mode or not. I just hope they don't do it >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunarie
Everything isn't for everyone.
You don't want things handed to you but you want the Bahamut storyline handed to you? You say you don't want rewards with out work, the story is the reward and you asking for a easy mode is the "with out the work" since it's an optional raid story. You got to work to complete it. It's been said numerous times that, that story line and raid is optional I understand you want to see it, because that's what you do in games the "easy mode" will come out before you know it :DQuote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
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12-04-2013, 06:28 AMEvokerKeiiI am providing people with their current options, rather than just complaining about how I want it to be because I don't like how it is. Which gets everyone exactly nowhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenzieLynch
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12-04-2013, 06:40 AMSunarieDisagreeing is fine.. and I do agree that everything isn't for everyone. Which is why I would be against top tier gear or achievements being awarded for not top tier raids. I would like to know though, why are you against story mode versions of dungeons? If you recognize that it's still going to be a challenge for people, and therefore it's not a free handout, why be against it completely? That's the part I'm failing to understand, and am not really seeing argued. If it's as simple as believing that the story should only really be completed by the select few that have the skill to complete the hardest content in the game, then that's fine and it's your opinion. Not one I share, but to each their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedden
I see people offering solutions as to how to get the cutscene (IE Youtube, grinding, "L2P", or waiting for a nerf).. but those aren't why the thing shouldn't be included, so much as solutions to not viewing the cutscenes that don't really fit the mentality of people who can't access them.
Edited to add: For Final Fantasy lore buffs. Bahamut storyline is a "main" storyline. Regardless of where anyone feels the main storyline should have ended. There can be multiple "main" storylines to a game. One picking up after a different has ended. -
12-04-2013, 06:43 AMTrystWildkeyI'm 37, been playing games for a long time. I know what my limitations are, and generally don't choose games that are above my skill level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedden
I'm not demanding, I saw a thread that had an idea that I liked and voiced my support for it. I've also not threatened to quit. I don't plan to quit, I'm enjoying the game the way I play it.
Gotta work for the storyline. Yeah, I know, that's what I've been doing.
But, the reason I keep coming back to defend my position is this:
The MAIN storyline, is walled behind (pay attention, here is the very important point) The. Hardest. Available. Content. In. The. Entire. Game.
Everything I've gone through so far has been challenging, and yes, hard for me. I haven't asked for anything else to be 'nerfed' or reduced in difficulty, or handed to me.
I'm only stating that I think it is a great idea, and I would like to see an alternative story mode for finishing the lore/storyline with Bahamut. An alternative to what it currently is, which is THE HARDEST AVAILABLE CONTENT IN THE GAME. -
12-04-2013, 06:45 AMKenzieLynchSeriously? 2 pages of discussion to try and get your actual theory on the matter and it turns out you want to tell me I can watch a video on youtube?Quote:
Originally Posted by EvokerKeii
I don't know whether to envy you for how simple it must be to live in that head or jump out the nearest window in despair for humanity. What an absolute waste of time. We're done here. -
12-04-2013, 07:02 AMHaiHaiSad that you believe gear is the only reward to be had in Coil. I guess you really aren't a raider.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
There is so much more to raid rewards than gear. Finishing the story, downing the bosses, working through the challenging fights, and the satisfaction of defeating the highest and often hardest level of content are all rewards in their own rights. And rewards aren't rewarding if you have to put in zero effort to receive them. -
12-04-2013, 07:07 AMAlhanelemSo you're saying you don't want your games to be challenging?Quote:
If FFXIV was initially released as it is now, I would NOT have played it.
I think you keep missing the following point: 1.0 and 1.23 were perfect for me. SE roped me in to their story and I want to see the rest of it. That's why I am asking for an easy or story mode.
Seriously is the game really that hard in the first place?
There is a story mode. It's called the main scenario. if you can't beat it... well, its time to retire from video games. Beyond that, I"m not really sure what you're talking about. You say 1.23 was fine for you, but the story battles in that game were just as hard if not harder than what we have now. So your case doesn't make any sense and I don't believe you for a second if you said you wouldn't have played ARR if it was the original version.
The MAIN story line is not walled behind any hard content whatsoever. The Binding Coil of Bahamut is NOT the main story. It is a secondary, additional story accessible after beating the ACTUAL main story. And despite it being the "hardest content in the game." it is not really so hard once you take the time to learn it.Quote:
The MAIN storyline, is walled behind (pay attention, here is the very important point) The. Hardest. Available. Content. In. The. Entire. Game.
Honestly it's pretty sad that we're not allowed to have challenging video games anymore because of people who can't handle a good fun challenge. Whats sad is this game doesn't even come close to representing the hardest out there. go play any game in any video arcade in japan and they will stomp you into oblivion.
I do NOT play this game all day every day. I do not consider myself a pro MMO player. But given enough time I was able to clear most of Coil. Given some time I was able to beat titan without being carried. You CAN beat it. Stop begging for an easy mode and just learn the fights.
People also seem to forget that it is inevitable that when new hard content comes out, the old hard content either naturally becomes easier / is nerfed and more accessible to people who were stuck before. If you've made your good faith effort to win and you still can't, just wait for the inevitable nerf. We don't need a special carebear mode, the game will get naturally easier over time. -
12-04-2013, 07:11 AMLukahnI can understand wanting to see it, but they are going to make the dungeon easier, as it's been said. You really are going to get exactly what you want. Everybody wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
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12-04-2013, 07:15 AMFaeddenThe main storyline ended in prae. Coil is OPTIONAL.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
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12-04-2013, 07:59 AMTrystWildkeyNo, I personally don't want my games to be that challenging. That's why they're 'games.' I want them to be fun. I'm not saying that this game shouldn't be challenging at all. By all means, have your end-game raids and your Coil fights as they are, or even made more difficult. That kind of content doesn't appeal to me, and thankfully, it's not the only content available in 2.0 which is why I'm still playing it. I don't begrudge anyone the hard modes, the level 90 gear, the acheivements or the boss kills. Please, enjoy them! It's just not for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
As far as 1.23 being just as hard; for my skill level and abilities, it was not. There was much more time to think and react with the way skills were set up and their respective cool-down times.
I concede to a point that the main storyline ends at Praetorium. However, for people that played to the end of 1.0 this new main storyline doesn't seem to relate much to what we've experienced. Bahamut is important. For me, Bahamut is the most important story in FFXIV.
*sigh* I am really, really tired of being told to learn how to play. I'm also tired of being told that I CAN beat it. A person has physical limits to their hand-eye coordination and reaction times. Most of these dungeons are at the high end of my limits. Am I still playing through them, am I still 'working' and 'learning' and putting forth effort? Yes! I just don't feel that video games should always be hard work. They're games for goodness sake ><
You're allowed to have challenging video games. You are. I'm not saying all games should be easy all the time. Nor am I saying that everything in this game needs to be made easier. Just give me an alternative to see the Bahamut storyline.
Why does asking for this one, single instance to have an alternate easier mode suddenly mean that no challenging content should exist anywhere???? -
12-04-2013, 08:36 AMRi_riOptional just like beating Deathwing in Cataclysm. Like, the dragon who ruined the world and gave context to a whole expansion...Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedden
I think we have something similar here. I've been reading about a dragon primal and calamity thingie since I've started playing. Even when I finished the game, there was a dragon scream and later a main character called me to check on it. The quests signs even had that meteor decoration, indicating it's the main storyline...
I think his name is Bahamut. -
12-04-2013, 08:54 AMAlhanelemSorry, but I disagree. Challenge is part of what makes a game a game. But I'm going to reiterate here that you stated you were comfortable in 1.23 and honestly the current content in the game is not substantially more difficult than what we had in 1.23.Quote:
No, I personally don't want my games to be that challenging. That's why they're 'games.'
Learn and improve your play, you don't need an easy mode. You say all they have to do is remove the rewards, but if they do that, nobody's going to play it, and you're not going to find a group for it. If you're tired of being told this, than just do it and stop complaining. There is nothing more exhilarating than when you finally beat that boss after many tries.
If you only want to play easy games, there's candy crush and bejeweled for you. MMOs are not your forte.
And finally, once again, Coil is NOT the main story. Neither is/will be the Crystal Tower when that comes out.
It devalues the experience for others when you give someone an easy way out. Other people bust their buts and try their hardest and earn a sense of accomplishment, and you get handed a victory on a silver platter. It's not a simple matter of tangible rewards.Quote:
Why does asking for this one, single instance to have an alternate easier mode suddenly mean that no challenging content should exist anywhere????
this is really not the case. The primal fights from 1.23 and those from ARR are more or less identical with minor changes. Neither did the regular Rivenroad fight give you lots of leeway to react to situations, people had to be in position and ready to deal with the various elements of the battle.Quote:
As far as 1.23 being just as hard; for my skill level and abilities, it was not. There was much more time to think and react with the way skills were set up and their respective cool-down times.
As I said before earlier content gradually gets easier as new content is introduced. This happens both naturally as players grow, and intentionally by the dev team through making appropriate gear easier to obtain or raising level caps or introducing other mechanics. If you can't beat it now, you'll be able to later. They don't need to add a special mode.
For example, through features like the duty roulette, along with a cap increase on mythology tomes, it will become both easier and faster to obtain lv90 gear which makes a drastic difference in endgame fights, allowing you more leeway to make mistakes and deal with the mechanics for less time due to a higher rate of DPS. When Coil part 2 comes out, coil part 1 will undoubtedly recieve the nerfs you're begging for without the need for a seperate easy mode.
Finally: As others have mentioned, if you just want to see the story and don't care about the sense of accomplishment that comes from beating something hard, just look up the cutscenes on youtube. You said you didn't want to deal with hard stuff so you can't tell me that's not good enough. -
12-04-2013, 08:55 AMEvokerKeiiI posted my opinion way back on the first page of the thread. If you don't have the necessary skill, you don't get the reward.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenzieLynch
"I wish I knew how Super Mario Bros ended too but I wasn't good enough to get past the final world. Did he defeat king koopa? Did he rescue the princess or was she in another castle? I'll never know."
Granted it was a little bit cryptic, but I figured someone of your intelligence would get the gist of it.
Also, you seem to have anger management issues. I think Michael Jackson said it best when he sang "If you want to make the world a better place take a look at yourself and then make a change." -
12-04-2013, 09:01 AMEvokerKeii
Once more the entire point of the thread is moot because IT IS BEING CHANGED IN THE FUTURE TO MAKE THE CONTENT EASIER AND MORE ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE SO THAT ANYONE MAY ENJOY THE STORY.
All this bickering back and forth boils down to people wanting what they can't have right at this moment. -
12-04-2013, 09:06 AMEvokerKeii
I'm starting to get a feeling that the "because story!" mantra is the gamers' "because terrorists" or "for the children!"
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12-04-2013, 09:10 AMAlhanelem
Really, watching videos of the story is a hell of a lot easier than playing an easy mode or having SE make one. There is no shame in going to watch those videos.
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12-04-2013, 09:15 AMLunaviThis made me laugh so hard xD Mostly because the Picture of Papalymo, a Thamatugre/BLM tanking bosses reminds me of too many WP runs XD But yeah, this is most likely what would happen :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Astarica