Machinist needs some reworking

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I say keep it mostly as it is since MCH being the simple job is one of the things it is meant to be for those who prefer a DPS job that is not overly complicated

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news flash , no job is overly complicated and theirs a thin line between simple to play, and malnourished that most ff14 jobs dance around a lot. SMN and MCH being the obvious latter while RDM and DRG being the former. This need to have easy jobs stems from people not wanting to learn anything. They say "i can focus on the fight instead of doing my rotation" then learn they only do core which at most has u stack mark then do remedial work. Keeping it simple should be for select jobs like DNC not all jobs

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Originally Posted by Jirah

news flash , no job is overly complicated and theirs a thin line between simple to play, and malnourished that most ff14 jobs dance around a lot. SMN and MCH being the obvious latter while RDM and DRG being the former. This need to have easy jobs stems from people not wanting to learn anything. They say "i can focus on the fight instead of doing my rotation" then learn they only do core which at most has u stack mark then do remedial work. Keeping it simple should be for select jobs like DNC not all jobs

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It is not a news flash and no need to be aggressive over this topic. Not to mention I am not talking about making all jobs simple. I am talking about just keeping the MCH the way it is and just expand on it since it is in the right spot in my opinion. The other jobs is not the main concern of my previous post.

People experience with a job varies and there are still people who find jobs easier or difficult to play but mostly due to how they prefer their play style. While certain players may find all jobs easy to play no matter what, there are others who do find certain jobs more difficult to adjust to playing. Some people prefer the more simple play style while others may perfer a more mechanically focused play style. You may not find this surprising or do but there are people who even find MCH to be the more difficult job to play as simply because it is too simple as their minds and muscle memory are far too adjusted to Jobs like Monk, Dragoon, and Black Mage. At the sametime there are people who still find it difficult to play as Monk, Dragoon, and Black Mage due to needing to focus more on their mechanic since they can't adjust to their play style. Thus they mostly just play these jobs to level them up for the job story and/or achievements every expansion cycle.

MCH, in my opinion, is at the right spot to what they want it to be and don't need a overwhelming change to make it fun. The only thing they need is just to expand MCH from now on without adding too many things to focus on mechanic wise. Damage output is in need to be adjusted as well but that is a repeated topic by everyone at this point.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

I've gone on about this in other topics, and here even, probably. It's all starting to blur together.

So I'll agree to Power Armor/Piloted Queen but with a question. How do we make it interact or work with Hypercharge/Overheat? Because if we don't do anything it just holding Inner Release to use during.... Inner Release.

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The only thing I can think up without having to completely revamp how current MCH mechanic works is to add a 3rd energy bar that is filled by spending energy to perform Overheat attacks and summon Queen.

It will provide more use for spending energy on Queen and Overheat attacks since combat wise MCH tend to focus on spending these two energy alot in combat based on the player. As of now the main focus on boss fights is mostly to build Energy for queen to maximize single target DPS while overheat is more focused on Trash mob AoE killing or when the timebomb skill is ready or near ready. Having the 3rd energy build up being based on using both overheat energy and Queen energy provides a reason to use both in all situations.

As for how the Power Armor energy maybe drained, it maybe based on skill being used or based on a timer. Skill being used to determine when the Power Armor ends will require proper distribution of energy cost on skills but if timer path is chosen for the design then it will need to have a reasonable active time.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

It is not a news flash and no need to be aggressive over this topic. Not to mention I am not talking about making all jobs simple. I am talking about just keeping the MCH the way it is and just expand on it since it is in the right spot in my opinion. The other jobs is not the main concern of my previous post.

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No, they should most definitely not expand on what they currently have going for MCH. the Heat blast spamming is by far the worst idea they've ever had. There are so many other creative avenues that the job could expand into yet they chose to do heat blast spamming. For example, they could expand on the idea of turrets. and TBH bombs makes more sense than having a "swiss army knife" of a gun that can shoot poison, drills, chainsaws, flamethrower. but that's besides the point.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

People experience with a job varies and there are still people who find jobs easier or difficult to play but mostly due to how they prefer their play style. While certain players may find all jobs easy to play no matter what, there are others who do find certain jobs more difficult to adjust to playing. Some people prefer the more simple play style while others may perfer a more mechanically focused play style. You may not find this surprising or do but there are people who even find MCH to be the more difficult job to play as simply because it is too simple as their minds and muscle memory are far too adjusted to Jobs like Monk, Dragoon, and Black Mage.

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Please find me one who thinks MCH is difficult. The only way they find it difficult is because the difficulty is that it's boring as hell, and the heat blast spamming is a bad joke that makes me fall asleep every time. Sure i agree that every one has a different play style, some like a difficult job but others like it easy. But the satisfaction of playing a job you enjoy doesn't come from it being easy to play, it comes from having some resistance in terms of difficulty to play the job thus making the mastery of playing the job all the more enjoyable.

MCH is in a terrible spot, the damage output is bad, it doesn't provide any utilities, the finishing skill is unsatisfying, AQ is VERY unsatisfying, the Gun glamours are mostly ugly and the list can go on and on. I honestly love the job, but i hate how it is now.

I feel like they should at least add some kind of Communio-like finisher move to Overheat (That temporarily replaces Flamethrower for the sake of making that button actually useful for something) because in its current state the gimmick just doesn't feel that satisfying.

Having a significant chunk of MCH's DPS lumped into what's essentially a glorified DoT in the Automaton Queen ended up dumbing down the rest of its rotation as a consequence and it just doesn't feel that good to play compared to BRD/DNC IMO.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I feel like they should at least add some kind of Communio-like finisher move to Overheat (That temporarily replaces Flamethrower for the sake of making that button actually useful for something) because in its current state the gimmick just doesn't feel that satisfying.

Having a significant chunk of MCH's DPS lumped into what's essentially a glorified DoT in the Automaton Queen ended up dumbing down the rest of its rotation as a consequence and it just doesn't feel that good to play compared to BRD/DNC IMO.

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Flamethrower is now useful for dungeons tho, it's the best "filler" option for 4+ targets, and the recast time is lower than it was before I think, so you can basically use in almost every pull. I mean, not the most practical to use though, but still... granted the tank is sensible enough not to pull the stuff out of range.

It could be just an additional button, since MCH has a lot of space, but I agree with the idea. I actually wanted the overheat phase to have an actual rotation other than heatblast x5.

I have a personal wishlist for MCH though...

changes for what we have:

- Ammo re-introduced (and added to the job gauge) as the charges for either gauss round OR ricochet. Reload re-introduced as well;
- Auto-crossbow having the same functionality of Heat Blast of reducing the recharge time of the ogcd's (or in above point's case, the ammo recharge time);
- Flamethrower granting gradual heat - so it would keep up with Scattergun's heat generation, since it has such a long channel time;
- Bishop Auto-turret re-introduced as an AoE battery spender;

additions for the future level tier:

- Automaton Queen upgraded, so now it becomes some sort of exo-armor for you. Basically YOU get to play as the automaton queen now, changing your rotation with new melee abilities for this time.
- New tool: Debiliator - AoE -10% damage down for enemies on a 120s recast time.
- New action: Medkit - 200 potency heal + removes weakened status, can be used on allies, on a 180s recast time.

My terrible idea would’ve been retain the old rotation up to 60 than 64 trait turns them into the heated rotation ONLY if your Hypercharged, not too keen on having it copy Enshroud for the stacks but if heat and Hypercharge is to be retained than that’s what kinda needs to happen, and increase it by 6 shots instead of 5 for rotation sake. Increase speed and it’ll be better better than just one button….but I’m 100% sure the mains would hate this as 1-2-3 have numbed us to the heated rotation and lost its savor over the years. But may solve the one and only phase MCH has at the major risk of gimping RPR shtick.


I do have a few ideas for MCH as a whole that I’ll post at some point in the next 1-3 years as I kee rewriting ideas and some aged poorly than others

Ironic that enshroud is a better overheat then overheat itself.

ts no mystery that mechanist as a class feels good but lacks any possible growth. it is in dire need of another rework. after maining the class after the initial rework and played it when it first came out i think there is a way to fix this, my favorite class in the game.

1. bring back the old rook as a permanent part of the kit. having a stationary single and group dot outside of bioblaster would help alot in terms of bringing up its damage. might even add a gcd or ogcd with a 60 or 90 second cooldown for a 200 (120 aoe) attack

2. make the Queen a pet with manual ability use. having more direct control over the queen and having it out permanently would be something every mechanist would get behind.

3. change battery gauge to a second resource to use queen abilities. have her abilities be a 123 combo costing X amount of battery gauge to use (single button rotation like continuation is might help with bar clutter).

4. remove detonation. its always been a clunky move and can reworked into something more functional maybe even a damage buff for either party or the Queen. putting the queen into overdrive would be a cool mechanic to have as a lvl 90.

5. move chainsaw further down the lvl unlock to make the lvl 90 ability the Queen Overdrive/overload. another note the overdrive could work on rooks aswell.

i feel this would better fit the mechanist lore, playstyle, and the kit wouldnt have to change to much making queen more useful, while also increasing its overall damage output as a pure dps to compare to the other 2. anyone else have any ideas or does this sound good?

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Originally Posted by Drayven

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Most of your suggestions sound like turret reworks which sadly isn’t gonna happen due to the devs hatred for pets. Not mentioning Aoes, heat, charges, Hypercharge or the abundant of GCDs or every wildfire or flamethrower kinda shows that MCH mains want different things from others and this failing of unity resulted in MCH getting nothing in EW (Drill III is not a game changer)

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Originally Posted by Sorzai

No, they should most definitely not expand on what they currently have going for MCH. the Heat blast spamming is by far the worst idea they've ever had. There are so many other creative avenues that the job could expand into yet they chose to do heat blast spamming. For example, they could expand on the idea of turrets. and TBH bombs makes more sense than having a "swiss army knife" of a gun that can shoot poison, drills, chainsaws, flamethrower. but that's besides the point.

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I want all of that. We aren't getting it. And that saddens me greatly.

What I can see happening if nothing else:

Heat Blast while under Hypercharge gets 5 charges (with a possible change to Hypercharge's duration)

Some change to Queen/Rook to make it faster or attack the target we're attacking (and their possible removal come 7.0)

SOMETHING to make Flamethrower worth being unable to move under... or they make it into another DoT... or they remove it.

I personally still think turning our self into a robot is better than summoning it whereby we don't need to worry about Pet AI at all.

Normal Hypercharge --> Heat blast [gcd] x5

After becoming robot:
Upgraded Hypercharge --> (Heat blast [gcd] --> Upgraded heat blast [gcd] COMBO) x5 --> Ranged Pile Bunker --> Ranged Crowned Collider

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Originally Posted by Drayven

ts no mystery that mechanist as a class feels good but lacks any possible growth. it is in dire need of another rework. after maining the class after the initial rework and played it when it first came out i think there is a way to fix this, my favorite class in the game.

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Let's see a bit those ideas...

1. There is a problem with the rook: It's a pet.
Unless they bring the rook like Carbuncle doing nothing without orders, I doubt rook would be interesting.
During SB they tried to tie more action to it and it was a micro management nightmare.

2. There is a problem with the Queen: It's a pet.
Full control or no control, if it's like Phoenix I welcome it.
If it's like ShB SMN pets with a long delay, no thank you.

I want the Queen to be more than a glorified dot, but it needs to be done right.

3. Same as 2, those "battery abilities" could be like Phoenix Revelation.

4. You can keep detonation. It's never needed since it's automatically used at the end of the effect.
It exist so that if you're about to finish the enemy, you can trigger it earlier.

5. Wouldn't change a thing. 60s with a 65% fall-off won't make better dungeons. It's around 570 potency on main target and 200 on other targets.
If you want aoes in dungeons: Make Queen's Collider an aoe. Solves the lack of battery spender for aoe.

Your feedback basically boils down to one big problem, lack of control on the Automaton Queen. (And some other things that would not change a lot of things like 4 and 5)
I doubt anyone disagrees that the Automaton Queen is not engaging, I've yet to see AQ defenders.

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Originally Posted by Ayden

I personally still think turning our self into a robot is better than summoning it whereby we don't need to worry about Pet AI at all.

Normal Hypercharge --> Heat blast [gcd] x5

After becoming robot:
Upgraded Hypercharge --> (Heat blast [gcd] --> Upgraded heat blast [gcd] COMBO) x5 --> Ranged Pile Bunker --> Ranged Crowned Collider

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*sigh* for the 1..2..3..70th time this is essentially lesser Enshroud which doesn’t sound like a good idea taking what was good from RPR and doing bugger all

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

During SB they tried to tie more action to it and it was a micro management nightmare.

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Come again? SB had approximately 3 actions for the turrets with a aoe and ST (single target) counter end. Hypercharge every 120s and Overdrive every 120s and deploying the thing in the first place after the 30s reset was finished. The actions were so far from eachother the only thing you had to manage was deploying your turret after it was destroyed after those very long 2min cycles. Nothing about it was hard or remotely nightmarish imo

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Come again? SB had approximately 3 actions for the turrets with a aoe and ST (single target) counter end. Hypercharge every 120s and Overdrive every 120s and deploying the thing in the first place after the 30s reset was finished. The actions were so far from eachother the only thing you had to manage was deploying your turret after it was destroyed after those very long 2min cycles. Nothing about it was hard or remotely nightmarish imo

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It wasn't hard, it was annoying.
Every beginning of pulls you had to place turret, reload and put on the gauss barrel. Then the group needed to wait 30 seconds for your cooldown to be back.

A popular feedback was to simply disable the turret and to not drop Gauss Barrel after overheat. And the Flamethrower being an instant overheat button.
Those request were never fulfilled during SB.

But even then two points:
-What's the point of the Turret when you can have the ability used by yourself? What if Overdrive was simply a 120s damage cooldown, same for Hypercharge? Simple, it would've been more practical with a better control over the job.
-Even with those QoLs, SB MCH had terrible fillers. 1 2 3 / Gauss round -> Reload every 30 seconds (which is just tied to 1 2 3) -> Wildfire combo every 60s -> Hypercharge every 120s.

Rook was not great and had no purpose after HW other than AA and Hypercharge, that's why they added overload.
The best part of SB MCH was the Wildfire combo, the filler phase was terrible, even more than current MCH.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

It wasn't hard, it was annoying.
Every beginning of pulls you had to place turret, reload and put on the gauss barrel. Then the group needed to wait 30 seconds for your cooldown to be back.

A popular feedback was to simply disable the turret and to not drop Gauss Barrel after overheat. And the Flamethrower being an instant overheat button.
Those request were never fulfilled during SB.

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Personally I never found it that annoying or “nightmareish” due to HW Gauss barrel still retained it’s toggle-ability and carried over to SB which ultimately made no sense as theirs no reason to have it off that part, even then wasn’t that bad on execution. Actually never really took issue with the turret system in SB. Yea it was shallow but with Hypercharge complimented wildfire rather than being toothless and Bishop Aoe Vuln shocks were fun to use with pulls.

Technically they did “fix” these issue with the removal of Gauss barrel, Hypercharge doing the Stun Gun thing of insta-overheat just in time for heat to not be nearly as potent, and turrets getting fixed by being less involved and more lateral. As for your points

1.) This approach would just defeat turrets whole system and purpose, like asking “instead of SMN getting summons why can’t we just cast Inferno by ourself?” The argument caves in on itself

2.)Agreed that SB filler was Gnarly and was one of my biggest wishes in SB for them to overhaul it somehow. SHB fixed this by giving us what 6 OGCDs and 2 GCDs? And another GCD in EW? There’s filler then theirs blatant fat. I’ll take reloading over baseless skill spamming like a healer main.

In SHB the filler IS the draw, you almost never change pace and the best part about MCH is pressing reassemble followed by 1/3 of your Drill skills while other jobs (excluding SMN) are flourishing

The whole MCH job needs a rework, not built upon. It's by far the worst job to play, not because it's difficult, not because the job fantasy isn't enticing. It's because nothing about Machinist is fun to play, the job skills and rotation doesn't feel satisfying, or impactful, there's also no benefit to the group. Machinist's identity is confusing, is it a machinist? a gunner? pure ranged dps? or is it a supportive dps? Also i'm not sure if anyone else has the same sentiment but i absolutely hate the heat blast spam and wildfire. It is such a let down because there is nothing the rotation is building up to.

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Originally Posted by Sorzai

Machinist's identity is confusing, is it a machinist? a gunner?

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Machinist's thematic identity is probably the thing that the ShB rework got pretty on point, because it actually feels like a proper machinist with gadgets, tools, robots for its big hits while using guns for the filler attacks.

There are many issues, ranging from potency adjustments to the gameplay, but I defnitely think that the job's theme is not one of those.

Thematically, MCH had nothing of a MCH until ShB.
It used a gun and a flying automaton, it was a gunner, not a machinist. Except Flamethrower but it is currently among the worst abilities that ever existed, Anatman being probably the first. Now the problem is turned on its head, it's a Machinist with a gun.

Gameplay wise, yeah... Automaton Queen is a dot on a CD, Flamethrower is garbage, Wildfire is underwhelming/unfulfilling, Heatblast is not fun.
ShB MCH only needed to expand and fix some things here and there.

Instead, EW MCH kepts digging its grave by making Automaton Queen even worse, fixing no issues and doing questionnable choices:
-Reassemble second charge, Scattergun and Tactician improved are welcome but were unnecessary. Especially Tacticians, why -30 seconds on cooldown justify a slot being occupied while other jobs gets upgrade for free?
-Crown Collider makes the Queen worse for many reasons.
-Chainsaw is the only good ability that came out of EW, but even then many players would have preferred a different chainsaw.

SQEX really needs to reconnect with the playerbase as I have yet to see anyone happy with the changes as a whole.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Scattergun and Tactician improved are welcome but were unnecessary.

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Oh, but Scattergun upgrade is something that is expected from every job and that people look forward to: animation upgrade. It could've been just a potency adjustment baked in a trait, but hey... I'm SO happy with Scattergun, because I always thought that Spread Shot looked very underwhelming for the basic AoE filler and also felt weird for it to come from the type of gun that the MCH wields.

The EW iteration of MCH tbh feels like if there was a designer that did it for ShB but they weren't asked to continue the job in EW.

I do agree, Scatter gun is a much welcome change compared to spreadshot.
It makes dungeons better but that's it. It's a dungeon upgrade and nothing else.

It shouldn't be removed, it's very good.

But it definitely wasn't a priority.
Flamethrower, Wildfire, Automaton Queen and Heat gauge definitely needed much more attention than Scattergun.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I do agree, Scatter gun is a much welcome change compared to spreadshot.
It makes dungeons better but that's it. It's a dungeon upgrade and nothing else.

It shouldn't be removed, it's very good.

But it definitely wasn't a priority.
Flamethrower, Wildfire, Automaton Queen and Heat gauge definitely needed much more attention than Scattergun.

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Flamethrower should defnitely have a heat generation behind it so it would be on par with Scattergun's, I'm fine with it being a trash mob tool, many other jobs got stuff they only use for dungeons. Also it's not exactly a MCH issue, but I'd LOVE if the combat engine got an upgrade to accomodate better channeled actions, because sucks that FT locks you in place for so long and you can't even turn.

Wildfire, I honestly have no idea on what to do with it to make interesting it remaining in the theme of a timed bomb...

AQ, I'm on the bandwagon that it should be upgraded to some sort of exo-armor and you get to execute a melee rotation with it.

Heat gauge... I'm fine with how it is right now, but Heat Blast could defnitely use an actual combo, or at least a finisher of some sorts.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Wildfire, I honestly have no idea on what to do with it to make interesting it remaining in the theme of a timed bomb...

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it doesn't have to be interesting. At least to me, i find that wildfire/heat blast spam takes away the focus of a finisher from AQ. It's the build up to a finisher is a significant aspect in any job which i find lacking in MCH.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

AQ, I'm on the bandwagon that it should be upgraded to some sort of exo-armor and you get to execute a melee rotation with it.

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I don't disagree that an exo-armor would be a nice addition, but i don't think it should be part of a MCH's kit and i dislike the idea of giving a ranged dps a melee rotation, i mean if you want a melee rotation, there's red mage. I would much rather have AQ fire a huge ass beam much like Iron Man's Proton Cannon in marvel vs. capcom, or let me pilot a mech that rains destruction for a couple seconds and send it to self-destruct like D.Va's mech.

We’ve already seen them basically gut Gun from MCH.

We get mechanic suit, it’s gonna be fighting for Edgar Tool time support let alone anything else. I’d rather not give MCH more stuff to tear itself apart over.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I do agree, Scatter gun is a much welcome change compared to spreadshot.
It makes dungeons better but that's it. It's a dungeon upgrade and nothing else.

It shouldn't be removed, it's very good.

But it definitely wasn't a priority.
Flamethrower, Wildfire, Automaton Queen and Heat gauge definitely needed much more attention than Scattergun.

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Seconded. If anything it gave me hope for MCH to not only be a gadgeteer but also a one-man-army. Handgun is for 1-2-3, Shotgun for aoe (I want more shotgun action in the future tbh) and maybe some heavy duty stuff like Gatling guns, bazookas, Sniper rifles, heavy rifles, augmented ammunition, high caliber weaponry, rockets, launchers, the list is literally limitless combined with its machinery and with this endless potential the job is shockingly one note for somthing that could be so great

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

We’ve already seen them basically gut Gun from MCH.

We get mechanic suit, it’s gonna be fighting for Edgar Tool time support let alone anything else. I’d rather not give MCH more stuff to tear itself apart over.

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I mean in all fairness it’s called machinist and not gunslinger or gunner. Like the name implies he uses mechanical tools to defeat his enemies.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Seconded. If anything it gave me hope for MCH to not only be a gadgeteer but also a one-man-army. Handgun is for 1-2-3, Shotgun for aoe (I want more shotgun action in the future tbh) and maybe some heavy duty stuff like Gatling guns, bazookas, Sniper rifles, heavy rifles, augmented ammunition, high caliber weaponry, rockets, launchers, the list is literally limitless combined with its machinery and with this endless potential the job is shockingly one note for somthing that could be so great

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Flamethrower should just be changed to a low level version of Bio-blaster if they can't be bothered to make it useful. Then, they could add back Grenade Shot to act as a 1-2 combo with Shotgun so that MCH isn't so 1 note in its AoE rotation.

It wouldn't fix much but it at least adds back some flavor if nothing else

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Originally Posted by Mortex

I mean in all fairness it’s called machinist and not gunslinger or gunner. Like the name implies he uses mechanical tools to defeat his enemies.

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In all fairness Bard doesn’t let it’s own identity limit it to just songs it’s both archery and songstress, from its first reveal back during ARR it has always been a gunner job. Out of all of the stupid MCH remakes I hate it when people submit to limitations like this

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Flamethrower should just be changed to a low level version of Bio-blaster if they can't be bothered to make it useful. Then, they could add back Grenade Shot to act as a 1-2 combo with Shotgun so that MCH isn't so 1 note in its AoE rotation.

It wouldn't fix much but it at least adds back some flavor if nothing else

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Bio blaster feels worse to play now that Scatter gun gives a clean 10 heat prompting more hyper charging. So this wouldn’t be a good fix just removing one skill for the sake of what? Organic gameplay or lack there or? Funnily enough in terms of Aoe MCH has one of the worst ones in the game which isn’t saying a whole lot as aoe are only rarely vital and can easily get by doing single targets only but a bad kit is a bad kit.

I’ll be frank it’s simply impossible to suggest anything for MCH, aoe or no, with its strict heat cycle being too demanding and offering no fluidity which is kinda why they’ve written themselves in a corner unless they revitalize heat somehow, or completely rework it. Best it can do is a follow up mechanics to heat similarly to BRD or SMN (if you can call it that) or have Hypercharge be on a CD and have other uses for heat. Otherwise it’s a wash

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Originally Posted by Mortex

I mean in all fairness it’s called machinist and not gunslinger or gunner. Like the name implies he uses mechanical tools to defeat his enemies.

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Cool.

Shall we lose the gun and become a melee wrench using power suiting chainsawing job then?

At the very least they can maybe finally figure out and focus on what the job should actually be and feel.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

Cool.

Shall we lose the gun and become a melee wrench using power suiting chainsawing job then?

At the very least they can maybe finally figure out and focus on what the job should actually be and feel.

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If i can pilot a mech suit, sure i'll play a Melee MCH. Like the G-Warrior.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

Cool.

Shall we lose the gun and become a melee wrench using power suiting chainsawing job then?

At the very least they can maybe finally figure out and focus on what the job should actually be and feel.

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I mean you can’t deny that being in a gundam and have like a enshroud mechanic with a big massive finish hit would be pretty cool. Maybe do a bit of stuff we’re that is meele. Like for example the g warrior was attack animation wise really cool. The problem machinist is they are in a pretty bad identity crisis. Either they go more edgar routes and reinforce the gadget route or they go back too the gunner roots, or they keep both minimal and reinforce the queen route we’re maybe you get the king suit as mech option.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

In all fairness Bard doesn’t let it’s own identity limit it to just songs it’s both archery and songstress, from its first reveal back during ARR it has always been a gunner job. Out of all of the stupid MCH remakes I hate it when people submit to limitations like this

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Well yeah because the base job is archer and ff 14 bard is just archer plus dnd bard mixed. Also bard didn’t had a identity crisis except maybe turret bard all the time.

Flamethrower should be replaced with 'Flame Turret' as a PBAoE. Drops a turret on your current location that sprays flames everywhere, could even reuse the old Bishop Turret model.

Be nice to have something to spend battery on in AoE situations.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

I mean you can’t deny that being in a gundam and have like a enshroud mechanic with a big massive finish hit would be pretty cool. Maybe do a bit of stuff we’re that is meele. Like for example the g warrior was attack animation wise really cool. The problem machinist is they are in a pretty bad identity crisis. Either they go more edgar routes and reinforce the gadget route or they go back too the gunner roots, or they keep both minimal and reinforce the queen route we’re maybe you get the king suit as mech option.

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You mean copying a already established job word for word? Lol no it wouldn’t be cool and this would be a jump toward job homogenization. This whole idea of “Enshroud but” will never fit well with MCH strict toothless heat mechanic unless said mechanic was upgraded or reworked.

This may be a logical perspective or a hot take but any job replicating a person from a game from the 32 bit era will inevitably be very shallow and should stop trying to glorify it. “Omg it plays just like Edgar from FF6!” Disregarding party synergy being a huge reason why the old final fantasy games were good, resulting in a hodgepodge of barley connected skills that only appeal in superficials not tangibility. It’s not a bad identity but firearms is part of its identity, why else did the MCH community moo when the shotgun of all things was the crowned “best skill” from its EW minuscule kit

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Well yeah because the base job is archer and ff 14 bard is just archer plus dnd bard mixed. Also bard didn’t had a identity crisis except maybe turret bard all the time.

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If MCH was in ARR, you can take a guess what base job it would be. I still don’t see your arguments to this. The job will literally not suffer for gaining more fire arm or gun skills, while every single gadget skill is a shallow as hell OGCD with hardly any difference. The Drill 1 Drill 2 Drill 3 and baseless aoes

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Originally Posted by Jirah

You mean copying a already established job word for word? Lol no it wouldn’t be cool and this would be a jump toward job homogenization. This whole idea of “Enshroud but” will never fit well with MCH strict toothless heat mechanic unless said mechanic was upgraded or reworked.

This may be a logical perspective or a hot take but any job replicating a person from a game from the 32 bit era will inevitably be very shallow and should stop trying to glorify it. “Omg it plays just like Edgar from FF6!” Disregarding party synergy being a huge reason why the old final fantasy games were good, resulting in a hodgepodge of barley connected skills that only appeal in superficials not tangibility. It’s not a bad identity but firearms is part of its identity, why else did the MCH community moo when the shotgun of all things was the crowned “best skill” from its EW minuscule kit

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Oh pls the moment they took ammunition away from mch and made it a 123 rotation with some elements of hectic dark knight gameplay then it was already homogenization.

And ofc shotgun is the best skill for mch because all the other are just meh. Air anchor 2 with saws and a ability the queen does automatically (if she doesn’t bug out and just eats the ability).

The job design team took the gadget route for mch so they either need to rewind that or expand on it.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

If MCH was in ARR, you can take a guess what base job it would be. I still don’t see your arguments to this. The job will literally not suffer for gaining more fire arm or gun skills, while every single gadget skill is a shallow as hell OGCD with hardly any difference. The Drill 1 Drill 2 Drill 3 and baseless aoes

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Then tell me what ability would you implement that would blow peoples socks off that is a gun move ? That also fits fantasy wise with the overarching theme of mch ? There isn’t that much wiggle room for it.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Then tell me what ability would you implement that would blow peoples socks off that is a gun move ? That also fits fantasy wise with the overarching theme of mch ? There isn’t that much wiggle room for it.

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Mustadio's Final Testament/Sniper Rifle line AoE

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Originally Posted by Mortex

And ofc shotgun is the best skill for mch because all the other are just meh. Air anchor 2 with saws and a ability the queen does automatically (if she doesn’t bug out and just eats the ability).

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Hot take but shotgun is absolutely the worst addition out of all EW abilities. Crown Collider and Chainsaw are boring but at least they don't actively look awful. Shotgun animation isn't meant for a spammanble. The endless cycle of conjuring a shotgun from thin air, cocking it and then tossing away after a single shot just to repeat the whole animation again is the stupidest thing.