The Chimera, the Monk and the Guard

Capping DEX and PIE should be a much higher priority than building STR and attack power.

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Originally Posted by Yves

This is what it keeps coming back to. If you want flexibility then found an LS that is open to it. In the meantime, since I need to run CC at least 200+ times with speedruns to gear our LS I am going to do it the most efficient way possible. This isn't closed-minded, rather efficiency-centric.

Someone earlier responded to my statement that you could complete ACP and Alexander with non-traditional setups. This is true but I wasn't going to risk a two hour tower climb for 50-50 odds. I chose to level an alternative class that would also allow me to participate in other battles. In the end? I loved RNG to the point it was my 3rd favorite class. The same thing happened for me in this game - I had no desire to level THM/BLM but did it because I ran out of stuff to do and assumed it would be needed. The result? It's hard to get me off BLM!

Lastly, you are asking for a cookie-cutter system in which balance/fair-play is prevalent. That isn't really the FF way. The FF history had been similar to sports: find a weakness and exploit the hell out of it. This is infuriating at some times and yet highly rewarding and oddly addictive. It's the same in any game. I know that some people try to pull the "fair play/I want challenge" card but that's a joke. I played ball with a coach who preached that day and night and on gameday we ran right at the Will who over-pursued, leveraged the DE who couldn't contain, and pressed the X because they ran a timing-based variation of the WCO. End result? Everyone loves a win.

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Thats why the west coast offense hinges on a QB who keeps his head and anticipates the blitz and looks to dump a screen pass to the flat, as opposed to wasting time checking down receivers when a speedy DE or DB is coming

As far as the OP... now that we've identified that it's the content and the way it is designed...
Do you think this under-designed content is just a product of 1.xx?

Is it possible that Yoshi-P is testing the waters... or just putting in filler content and at 2.0 there will be so much diverse balanced content?

But then, a similar thing happened in Beta... People kept thinking the problems were just because it was Beta, assuming they'd be fixed by launch... and they never were

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Thats why the west coast offense hinges on a QB who keeps his head and anticipates the blitz and looks to dump a screen pass to the flat, as opposed to wasting time checking down receivers when a speedy DE or DB is coming

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...you and I need to stop finding common groud. The fact that we both agree with and value the WCO is downright disturbing. Although I prefer Walsh's model to the modern models run by Holmgren and Gruden. As a SS who moved to Mike I can't tell you how much I hate smart QB's who read and hit the flat...it just drives me nuts because in a standard Cover-2 that FB/HB has enough room to outwork the OLBs and in a Tampa 2 the CB is going to have issues taking down a bigger back. DAMN YOU SMART QBS!

Total sidenote but I really like what Andy Dalton is doing. I may not like them but I respect them.

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Originally Posted by Yves

...you and I need to stop finding common groud. The fact that we both agree with and value the WCO is downright disturbing. Although I prefer Walsh's model to the modern models run by Holmgren and Gruden. As a SS who moved to Mike I can't tell you how much I hate smart QB's who read and hit the flat...it just drives me nuts because in a standard Cover-2 that FB/HB has enough room to outwork the OLBs and in a Tampa 2 the CB is going to have issues taking down a bigger back. DAMN YOU SMART QBS!

Total sidenote but I really like what Andy Dalton is doing. I may not like them but I respect them.

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Open field tackling is paramount.... I don't know if it was the shortened preseason or what, but last year, it seemed like open field tackling just didn't exist... which is a huge blow for something so fundamental

And yes... even at 9-7, I liked what the Bengals were showing me

I guess that's enough derail though

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Originally Posted by Onizuka

This is sooooooooooooooo wrong. I couldn't agree less. :( This is not at all “the best” way to solve the problem. If this is really what the devs have in mind, then I would like them to officially state it.

Playing a Class you've no interest about is incredibly wrong. I firmly believe that in a world like Eorzea we should always do what we like doing. That's a big point in my philosophy in Eorzea.
If the game forces to play with other Classes to properly enjoy those contents, then I'll gladly stay with my crafting & gathering until the end of time with Spekkio. :) 4 Black Mages clearing the Aurum Vale spamming Flare with /countdown and then switching to Monk for the Final Boss => No thanks.

What you said is just the trend that Final Fantasy XIV is falling into, also due to the easiness in leveling up: have all the battle Classes at level 50 (I spoke about this in another Topic, but was partly misunderstood), and in party switch to the one needed by the party, rather than the one you would like to play with.
If the masses like this direction, good for them, but I prefer to have my Class identity and level up a Class only if I feel like doing it.

After reading your post, just a few minutes ago I felt like doing another test, seeing a known adventurer with an instanced raid request in the Party Interface. Part of the conversation:


Easy easy easy! Ooook! This was just a test to give an idea of the conversations of last week's experiment, I wasn't really in combat mood today, anyway.
I'm still in Gridania crafting near the Black Tea Brook and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. :)

Adventurers simply want easy stuff and the fastest way to clear those pointless Speed Runs. I cannot force them to believe that there might be something more important than a Super Gear: if they don't have much time to spend in Eorzea and the contents to get that gear are badly designed, then I can't blame them if they just want to do them with the more suited Classes. I wonder if they really enjoy this AoE routine, though...

Like I said in the first post, if the system stays as is, it won't be me to join the masses nor the trend, but I'll still enjoy my time in Eorzea without doing the contents my level 50 Discipline of War is not requested/suited for. :)


When 2.0 will be released, I'll write another review for the game and I wouldn't like to say “Certain Classes are penalized for some of the endgame contents and therefore you're forced to level other ones you might not have an interest into in order to play those contents.”, it would be in the cons, and a big one.
I hope the devs will see the light and balance the current system by then.

Well, nothing else to add to what I said in the first post, we'll see how this shall turn out as time flows. :cool:

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I agree with you, man and I'd be one of those people accepting you into a CC party if you reply my shout; I have been spending a lot of time on Ifrit (wiping) after accepting not "ideal" classes into my parties: I am not the "No Thanks, Good Luck" kind of person :)

What I think is that "shout people" learn a strategy (probably the easiest) and they need that party set-up to win.

So, with time, everyone knows THAT strategy and that is what they seek doing. I think the only way to try and learn a different strategy is having a LS (or Static) to support your trial and error.

Bottom line: you are right saying you want to play what you like, but cannot blame community for not following you.


EIDT: btw you need to exp all jobs in this game due to cross-abilities.

I Think the real issue behind this trouble IS NOT ONLY the raids design, i blame mostly the fact once someone has cleared the dungeon and POST IT on youtube , other people see it as a rule graved in stone "WE HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY TO WIN"... cause i be seen dungeons getin win with setups other than normally used before, as dungeons were released, but was the people always wantin to win bringing the same setup they saw, is sad how many of my LS leaders tell us "watch this video we gona do it that way" ... i really hate this.

Then is funny once those same leaders after get all the items and start doing the runs solely for fun or to "help" their minions as they show off their awezome gearz, start to experiment with other jobs just for the hell of it and theeeeeen they find out it is possible and even better to do it with other party setups and strategies other than the ones they forced us to play at begining and go far as say "isnt party setup is the player what matters, you can do it with any setup", causin you the wish to kill them at slaps and throwing a rabbious ape to their face after force you play a job you dont like to for so long until they decided to try out new ways cause they just dont need anymore, i bet many if not all who does dungeons and aint any kind of LS leader with a bunch of people doing what they says have been in that situation.

My point; think the player base is the #1 to blame, then #2 is the dungeon designs. there is diferent ways to do a dungeon... that everyone want to do it exactly as they saw others doing it until they get everything they want so then they try start experimentin other ways... that is the big issue. Gamers have lost their "adventure wish".

EDIT; i feel it more of a ; "who does it first sets the rules".

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

I Think the real issue behind this trouble IS NOT ONLY the raids design, i blame mostly the fact once someone has cleared the dungeon and POST IT on youtube , other people see it as a rule graved in stone "WE HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY TO WIN"... cause i be seen dungeons getin win with setups other than normally used before, as dungeons were released, but was the people always wantin to win bringing the same setup they saw, is sad how many of my LS leaders tell us "watch this video we gona do it that way" ... i really hate this.

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I like that you brought this up! A big +1 from me. Linkshells that flaunt their apparant success by streaming themselves or releasing videos well before the majority of players have a time to experience the content thoroughly themselves are a disgrace to the community of this game.

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

I Think the real issue behind this trouble IS NOT ONLY the raids design, i blame mostly the fact once someone has cleared the dungeon and POST IT on youtube , other people see it as a rule graved in stone "WE HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY TO WIN"... cause i be seen dungeons getin win with setups other than normally used before, as dungeons were released, but was the people always wantin to win bringing the same setup they saw, is sad how many of my LS leaders tell us "watch this video we gona do it that way" ... i really hate this.

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I don't think its just a copy what you see video....
People "NEED" the fastest win because they know they'll have to spam this dungeon hundreds of times....
If you know you have to do something 200 times... even shaving 30 seconds per run is almost 2 hours of your live saved....

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I don't think its just a copy what you see video....
People "NEED" the fastest win because they know they'll have to spam this dungeon hundreds of times....
If you know you have to do something 200 times... even shaving 30 seconds per run is almost 2 hours of your live saved....

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That's absurd.

People don't play this game to accomplish something quickly, they play it to enjoy themselves. Give someone a choice of bringing THM or BLM to Ifrit and they will pick BLM every time, not because it's ideal, but because it's new, interesting and more fun. You have no idea how many people each day ask to fight Ifrit as MNK or DRG.

There are obviously exceptions to this, however, but for timed content and events that are not a 'grind' in themselves; people enjoy the challenge and excitement of playing them as a less than ideal job simply because it's more fun to do them on a class they enjoy playing more. It's opression from party leaders and linkshell leaders that usually stops people from playing as the less than ideal classes, within reason. It can also be said that losing a fight playing as a class you enjoy is sometimes less fun than playing as one you do not.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I don't think its just a copy what you see video....
People "NEED" the fastest win because they know they'll have to spam this dungeon hundreds of times....
If you know you have to do something 200 times... even shaving 30 seconds per run is almost 2 hours of your live saved....

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the thing dear isnt like that, example in ifrit... when they released Ifrit, at least on my server, they started bringing tank, conjurer, lnc... as main stup, after long after when people started to test out other methods found out archer was better than lnc.... and at this time, at least on my case, i had 4 LS doing ifrit, on all them i asked what about bring a thm? i had only pug and thm at that time, everyone laughed at me and said, "thm is worthless for this fight, no one brings that job."

Then long time after, when most of people had their weapons and started tryin out stuff they considered Taboo cause no one was doing.... found out that bring thm was actually way better than bringing lancer or archer....

So im sorry to dissagree with yah but doubt you be right about it.

Edit; by the way, dont you find it funny nowdays everyone want to do Ifrit Fight with a bunch of BLMs instead melees or archers?, a job that back then (when there was no yet BLM but thm and was easier to run while casting) was considered a worthless class for that fight cause back then everyone was doing it only lnc as damage dealer cause they saw it on a video?.

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

That's absurd.

People don't play this game to accomplish something quickly, they play it to enjoy themselves. Give someone a choice of bringing THM or BLM to Ifrit and they will pick BLM every time, not because it's ideal, but because it's new, interesting and more fun. You have no idea how many people each day ask to fight Ifrit as MNK or DRG.

There are obviously exceptions to this, however, but for timed content and events that are not a 'grind' in themselves; people enjoy the challenge and excitement of playing them as a less than ideal job simply because it's more fun to do them on a class they enjoy playing more. It's opression from party leaders and linkshell leaders that usually stops people from playing as the less than ideal classes, within reason. It can also be said that losing a fight playing as a class you enjoy is sometimes less fun than playing as one you do not.

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This is a function of the culture of each server and each sub-culture. While I certainly suspect that people are out there who do this primarily for fun, there a large number of players who believe fun exists in succeeding in the most efficient manner possible.

Also, remember, that doing something 200-300 times will eventually get old despite the possible variations. A lot of people are sick of CC and AV by now and are just doing it to get the gear. When you don't like something you are going to find the quickest means possible to achieve the desired goal so you can bail and do something more fun.

There is nothing absurd about realizing this limitation - a limitation that is a factor in the scope of humanity itself.

Give me my proper freaking MNK HP and stop making end game content so AoE heavy on both sides.
What is this ~2000 HP garbage where we die in one or two hits? Monk is supposed to be the HP heavy class. That's why we get stuck in light armor. What use is our high single target DPS when we die without even getting enmity on single bosses and the rest of the time we're fighting 5+ mobs?

Some things are just so obvious it makes you groan with frustration that SE is collectively too stupid to figure them out by now. But then I guess we're talking about the same people who thought that treasure hunter and "hate control" (like tanks needed it) made up for the fact that thief was inferior DPS for practically the entirety of FFXI's existence, amongst plethora other job balance issues that never got addressed and in some cases only got worse.

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Originally Posted by Yves

This is a function of the culture of each server and each sub-culture. While I certainly suspect that people are out there who do this primarily for fun, there a large number of players who believe fun exists in succeeding in the most efficient manner possible.

Also, remember, that doing something 200-300 times will eventually get old despite the possible variations. A lot of people are sick of CC and AV by now and are just doing it to get the gear. When you don't like something you are going to find the quickest means possible to achieve the desired goal so you can bail and do something more fun.

There is nothing absurd about realizing this limitation - a limitation that is a factor in the scope of humanity itself.

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I Agreee with yah, but isnt this you tryin to defend be the reason why people get tired of a dungeon as well? be doing it repetitivelly the same way again and again and again without variation? why they restrict themselves into do so and not give it a variation by tryin new ways? well this is also an human condition. cant tell everyone what to do, but you can point at them the root of the problem.

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

Edit; by the way, dont you find it funny nowdays everyone want to do Ifrit Fight with a bunch of BLMs instead melees or archers?, a job that back then (when there was no yet BLM but thm and was easier to run while casting) was considered a worthless class for that fight cause back then everyone was doing it only lnc as damage dealer cause they saw it on a video?.

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Um . . . thats mostly due to the major battle changes that took place in 1.20.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Um . . . thats mostly due to the major battle changes that took place in 1.20.

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No it isnt, people started find out thm was better before they released blm or made mayor changes to thm.

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

I Agreee with yah, but isnt this you tryin to defend be the reason why people get tired of a dungeon as well? be doing it repetitivelly the same way again and again and again without variation? why they restrict themselves into do so and not give it a variation by tryin new ways? well this is also an human condition. cant tell everyone what to do, but you can point at them the root of the problem.

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You're very much correct... all the complaints about low drop rates and class stacking are by products of the "Lack of content" debate....
However, starting a thread about zero content seems pointless, since the PDFs give a definitive timetable on when content is coming...

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

That's absurd.

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So trying to save time on something you'll have to do 200 times is absurd? What world do you live in?

newsflash... by the 200th speed run... It's not fun anymore...
It becomes a chore... and just like chores, people find the speediest most efficient way to complete them

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

No it isnt, people started find out thm was better before they released blm or made mayor changes to thm.

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Out of curiosity what spells were the THMs using for their damage?

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

Give me my proper freaking MNK HP and stop making end game content so AoE heavy on both sides.
What is this ~2000 HP garbage where we die in one or two hits? Monk is supposed to be the HP heavy class. That's why we get stuck in light armor. What use is our high single target DPS when we die without even getting enmity on single bosses and the rest of the time we're fighting 5+ mobs?

Some things are just so obvious it makes you groan with frustration that SE is collectively too stupid to figure them out by now. But then I guess we're talking about the same people who thought that treasure hunter and "hate control" (like tanks needed it) made up for the fact that thief was inferior DPS for practically the entirety of FFXI's existence, amongst plethora other job balance issues that never got addressed and in some cases only got worse.

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I agree...if we're going to take that close range AoE, buff the hp.

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Originally Posted by Relic

I agree...if we're going to take that close range AoE, buff the hp.

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That would be nice :/

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

While I totally understand wanting to play your preferred class in every situation, it's just not practical to expect this for every event/raid/primal/NM. In order to have dynamic battles, and raids, you will always get a 'preferred setup' for each different situation...the trick is 1.making sure every job and class has it's own content to shine in. and 2. making sure that content is still clearable by mixed 'less-optimal' groups.

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Definitely agree. :)

While in a perfect world, every single fight would allow every single class / job to be just as efficient, as Kinsey and others have pointed out, it would lead to a very homogenized feeling.

If every single Damage Dealer could do the same amount of damage / be equally desirable in every single Dungeon / NM / Fight, what would be the point of creating different Jobs? It would lead to a very bland feeling IMHO.

In the long run, if Yoshida-san creates *enough* content (soon enough) so that there are Dungeons / NMs that allow each Job to really shine (and allows certain idiosyncratic Actions / Abilities of a Job to be highlighted / standout), *and* they make sure to balance the Dungeons / NMs so that all Jobs can perform reasonably well (i.e., not too much of a disadvantage), then that'd be ideal.

The problem is right now, there is so little Max Level Content (and not enough experiences that really highlight certain Jobs) that Jobs / Classes that are "not as optimal" are really feeling left out.

I wouldn't mind seeing a future situation where, say:

* Dungeon A: Dragoons, White Mage can really shine.
* Dungeon B: Monk, Warrior can really shine.
* Dungeon C: Paladin, Black Mage can really shine.
* Dungeon D: Bard, etc. can really shine.

But in all Dungeons the other Jobs are still effective enough to clear reasonably well (BTW, all current content can be done with all Jobs just fine, but I mean to the point that mainstream / casual players can see the light, and realize that).

Ultimately, though, as Rydin and Madruk have mentioned, SE's mentality on making super low drop rates is pushing those players / LSs / groups that want to get all the drops to have to spam a Dungeon repeatedly, hundreds of times, to get what they want.

So in those situations, many people would take what they felt was "most efficient" and spam that content repeatedly to get what they wanted.

Will there ever be a perfect solution to make sure all Jobs play equally well against every single NM / Dungeon, and can clear content just as fast, regardless of Job? That probably won't happen.

But hopefully there will be enough Max Level Content soon that allows each Job to shine and standout that there won't be any "Job / Class Prejudice" by the community overall (like in the early days of XI, where Dragoon was known as "loldrg", or how currently, Paladins are generally not as sought after (because of limited, current content we have now)).

Perhaps with enough Content where each Job is the star, that players' mindsets might *change* and people might think outside the box (outside cookie cutter setups)?

Where after experiencing, say, 7 different Dungeons / NMs where each Job was really highlighted, players in general might realize that "Hey, I saw [JOB XYZ] kick butt in Dungeon A... I feel confident inviting them for Dungeon B and C." etc.

Part of it might be education and getting more in-depth, meaningful experiences (across the whole player base) of seeing each Job excel, where they might then realize that all Jobs could be very effective in whichever Dungeon they take on.

Another part is as many have said, with the super low Drop Rates and the emphasis on Speed Runs as a condition for certain loot.

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

the thing dear isnt like that, example in ifrit... when they released Ifrit, at least on my server, they started bringing tank, conjurer, lnc... as main stup, after long after when people started to test out other methods found out archer was better than lnc.... and at this time, at least on my case, i had 4 LS doing ifrit, on all them i asked what about bring a thm? i had only pug and thm at that time, everyone laughed at me and said, "thm is worthless for this fight, no one brings that job."

Then long time after, when most of people had their weapons and started tryin out stuff they considered Taboo cause no one was doing.... found out that bring thm was actually way better than bringing lancer or archer....

So im sorry to dissagree with yah but doubt you be right about it.

Edit; by the way, dont you find it funny nowdays everyone want to do Ifrit Fight with a bunch of BLMs instead melees or archers?, a job that back then (when there was no yet BLM but thm and was easier to run while casting) was considered a worthless class for that fight cause back then everyone was doing it only lnc as damage dealer cause they saw it on a video?.

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You're talking about thm in two different forms, during 1.19 and after 1.20, when the classes were dramatically different. That's why people started bringing thm/blms....

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Originally Posted by Rydin

So trying to save time on something you'll have to do 200 times is absurd? What world do you live in?

newsflash... by the 200th speed run... It's not fun anymore...
It becomes a chore... and just like chores, people find the speediest most efficient way to complete them

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Have you forgot you playing a game in constant evolution? i feel sad for the people who play the game only for the satisfaction of have a gear that in a near future will be worthless compared to new one instead enjoy the fun and challenge of the content at the moment by playin the game the way they want instead be stressin themselves into get a gear that will be good only a few months....

That kind of people are the ones cryin later on about they wasted their time workin out their butts for awezome gear to find out there is new ones soon, while those other gamers who enjoyed game at the time of the dungeons playin the game as they wanted stare at them wondering "what are you cryin about? you forgot this a game you spent time to have fun at the moment, not something you play to aquire things for life, of course is a waste of time, is a game, not a work, enjoy the moment playing it".

The memories of you havin fun here doing things at that very moment is the only thing you will preserve from game, so why sacrifice your fun moments into stressin doing a dungeon to win a piece of armor that will be worthless in a couple months and ruinin everyone else game cause your rush?

Edit: by the way i know my gramar is horrible, i do it at porpouse, as a way of personal speech.

Didn't read all your post but I got the gist of MNK is overlooked for BLM/WAR/BRD which you want changing. I would agree with you and the problem is half from speed runs and running through but it is half the community want easy mode.

I cannot really comment on Cutters Cry because I have yet to go there, but I assume it is entirely possible to get a speed run done with MNKs, I do know its possible to win with a balanced party because my LS has done it, the community is sticking with the proven thorey of ranged attack and AoE only, which I knew would happen after it started with DH.

SE is less likely to change the dungeons because that requires alot of work and reprogramming, the will be more inclined to nerf the jobs everyone is bandwagoning.

I want SE to add a mob that will oneshot anyone outside melee range to kill off this ranged everything, but I bet that will not happen.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

You're talking about thm in two different forms, during 1.19 and after 1.20, when the classes were dramatically different. That's why people started bringing thm/blms....

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There wasnt blms yet even then, and thm still had same spells as when they released ifrit for first time, so dont know what changes you talkin about, thm was the same since they released ifrit up till the time people started bringing it out to ifrit way months after. And yes there was patches in betwen that time but thm didnt changed much in those.

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

Have you forgot you playing a game in constant evolution? i feel sad for the people who play the game only for the satisfaction of have a gear that in a near future will be worthless compared to new one instead enjoy the fun and challenge of the content at the moment by playin the game the way they want instead be stressin themselves into get a gear that will be good only a few months....

That kind of people are the ones cryin later on about they wasted their time workin out their butts for awezome gear to find out there is new ones soon, while those other gamers who enjoyed game at the time of the dungeons playin the game as they wanted stare at them wondering "what are you cryin about? you forgot this a game you spent time to have fun at the moment, not something you play to aquire things for life, of course is a waste of time, is a game, not a work, enjoy the moment playing it".

The memories of you havin fun here doing things at that very moment is the only thing you will preserve from game, so why sacrifice your fun moments into stressin doing a dungeon to win a piece of armor that will be worthless in a couple months and ruinin everyone else game cause your rush?

Edit: by the way i know my gramar is horrible, i do it at porpouse, as a way of personal speech.

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There are players like what you describe but I find satisfaction in a style of gameplay that appears to be this on the surface, however, it is not. I play to have fun with my friends. I also find great satisfaction in the idea that we/I can do something in a highly organized and highly effective manner. Success is not the goal - success through excellent execution is the goal. This probably has a lot to do with being an athlete but that's something that drives me. Perfect what it is you do, refine, refine, refine and innovate but only when necessary. I like to win, but, believe it or not, I can take more pride and satisfaction in a narrow loss if I/we executed properly but were simply out-gunned as opposed to a sloppy win. In fact, a sloppy win will irritate me to no end while a perfect loss has me saying "maybe next time..."

Like I said, this looks like what you are describing but it isn't based on the gear - it is based on the experience and the achievement and sharing it with those you care about. I don't mind people aiming for new methods but being told that what I derive enjoyment is wrong is pretty much weaksauce with a chaser of PBR. We have a system that we deem to be the most efficient as of right now and we will use it until perfected. However, after it's all said and done we do like to screw around and try new things for kicks.

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

There wasnt blms yet even then, and thm still had same spells as when they released ifrit for first time, so dont know what changes you talkin about, thm was the same since they released ifrit up till the time people started bringing it out to ifrit way months after. And yes there was patches in betwen that time but thm didnt changed much in those.

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THM didnt change much? You serious? 1.20 completely changed everything (for all classes). 1.19 THM is way different than 1.20 THM. 1.19 THM had DoTs and crappy nukes. 1.20+ THM has Thunder>Thundara

The introduction of combos in 1.20 also led to a learning curve for melees, especially in the ifrit fight, as such THM became the 'easy' class to go with.

I really think you're forgetting about the impact 1.20 had. Here are the patch notes: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tch-1.20-Notes

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

THM didnt change much? You serious? 1.20 completely changed everything (for all classes). 1.19 THM is way different than 1.20 THM. 1.19 THM had DoTs and crappy nukes. 1.20+ THM has Thunder>Thundara

The introduction of combos in 1.20 also led to a learning curve for melees, especially in the ifrit fight, as such THM became the 'easy' class to go with.

I really think you're forgetting about the impact 1.20 had. Here are the patch notes: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tch-1.20-Notes

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Correct me if im wrong.... but Ifrit Fight got introduced into patch 1.19..... and i been teellin yah alot of times people started fighting Ifrit with THM prior to 1.20.... so im not sure what changes you are talkin about in betwen.

And yes you right, THM isnt same in 1.19 than 1.20 i even told yah before thats right.... but i dont get how your statements take place on what im tellin yah when i told you already im talkin to prior 1.20

EDIT; by the way, those changes 1.19a and 1.19b didnt made big changes on thm.

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

Correct me if im wrong.... but Ifrit Fight got introduced into patch 1.19..... and i been teellin yah alot of times people started fighting Ifrit with THM prior to 1.20.... so im not sure what changes you are talkin about in betwen.

And yes you right, THM isnt same in 1.19 than 1.20 i even told yah before thats right.... but i dont get how your statements take place on what im tellin yah when i told you already im talkin to prior 1.20

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(Sorry for this off-topic derailment)

I suppose I'm curious how THM worked out on Ifrit in 1.19. I can admit I tried it a few times was quite disappointed in the results so never really tried it again till 1.20. MP pool was lower then if I'm not mistaken and the nukes really didnt pack a punch. Which spells were used? Aero and choke were decent.

But another point is that you stated THM didnt change much from 1.19 to 1.20; this couldnt be further from the truth. There were quite substantial changes to THM in that patch, their entire spell/ability list was overhauled.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

(Sorry for this off-topic derailment)

I suppose I'm curious how THM worked out on Ifrit in 1.19. I can admit I tried it a few times was quite disappointed in the results so never really tried it again till 1.20. MP pool was lower then if I'm not mistaken and the nukes really didnt pack a punch. Which spells were used? Aero and choke were decent.

But another point is that you stated THM didnt change much from 1.19 to 1.20; this couldnt be further from the truth. There were quite substantial changes to THM in that patch, their entire spell/ability list was overhauled.

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He is obviously confusing it, THM sucked badly, no matter what, on Ifrit before 1.20, Banish/Scourge did nearly no damage and let's not talk about DoTs nearly doing nothing lol

Good post OP, I feel for people who only have one class at 50, I get a funny feeling SE will just go completely to the other extreme with Garuda and cause the fight to be all melee and no ranged (besides the whm).

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

There wasnt blms yet even then, and thm still had same spells as when they released ifrit for first time, so dont know what changes you talkin about, thm was the same since they released ifrit up till the time people started bringing it out to ifrit way months after. And yes there was patches in betwen that time but thm didnt changed much in those.

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when Ifrit frist release, thm is OLD THM with spell nothing deal much to Ifrit even DoT(bio poison dia) cant cover up Ifrit regen. THM been removed aoe Sacrifice, prolly still good wiht one THM healer but not as a main dps at that patch.

What I was thinking is in all honestly SE was NOT testing their content before release (mainly for balance, not bugs issues)... Otherwise we would not have gotten the ONLY tank job in the game so screwed up that another job, WAR, is better than it.

This goes for the other content sadly. But, they really can't do anything about it. What do they want them to do? Force other jobs to be taken? Other ppl who like those set ups (BLMx4 or BRDx4) will get upset and complain, and they can rightfully do so just like yourself.

You want it so that they make all job viable? Sure, who's to say they aren't? people really are not trying to figure it out and those who did will tell you that they did it with other setups....

You know what is promoting this stuff? What is killing every dungeon and making it into a marathon? The damn speed runs. I don't know who is in the dev team promoting and liking this, and how is Yoshi-P (who always says that no idea pass without me green lighting it) green lighting this.

I said it before that SE could make those dungeons into a track field with hurdles to hit the jump button. I believe it'll be more interesting than the current.

People will still go with least resistance path. Speed run or not, you are delusional if you thinks otherwise, stack classes happens in alot of MMOs, it will never goes away especially with a game that lets you change classes iin a fly.

Regarding SE not testing, people have done speedrun with party consists of every single jobb and 2 whm. People just doesnt do it bc it takes alot more skill to pull speedrun with those setup and its a scientific fact that alot of ppl that thinks they are better than tthey actually are, alot of the complainers never really succeeded speedrun.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

its a scientific fact that alot of ppl that thinks they are better than tthey actually are.

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You should publish a paper on this!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

People will still go with least resistance path. Speed run or not, you are delusional if you thinks otherwise, stack classes happens in alot of MMOs, it will never goes away especially with a game that lets you change classes iin a fly.

Regarding SE not testing, people have done speedrun with party consists of every single jobb and 2 whm. People just doesnt do it bc it takes alot more skill to pull speedrun with those setup and its a scientific fact that alot of ppl that thinks they are better than tthey actually are, alot of the complainers never really succeeded speedrun.

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the best post in this forum

only thing i will say is, if you complain about playing the job you want in any battle then you should make your own parties or find an ls that will let u come on what you want etc. ive done ever fight with ever mele class and i can continue to....(you should make better friends)

i agree also that my monk has been push out of this fry, for anything Primal fights and such.

The main issue I've seen regarding this are the self AoEs they've put on stuff. STOP THAT. SE needs to do away with that BS. I really don't get what the point of those is. At all. It is because of that crap that the only stuff that I get invited to are DH, moogles and, sometimes, Ifrit. Anything else is apparently BRD/BLM/WHM/WAR onry.

Hello again.

In the past weeks I was able to find a couple of parties bold enough to challenge Cutter's Cry with a Monk in party, and, like I illustrated in my last journal post, for the very first time not only I could see the Myrmidon Princess fall (finally!)...

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...SHlvH4I_8I.jpg


...but with that setup we arrived at the chimera and I could challenge the beast for the first time, too. Look at my Tiger Subligar while I incapacitate its tail!

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...SHlZoFvweA.jpg


I'm bringing this Topic back up with this experience to encourage other adventurers out there to try different setups and not aiming only for that badly conceived Speed Run/AoE Feast/Same Jobs stuff.
It takes some patience, but in the end I think it's a lot more fun. :)

One day I'll properly defeat the chimera and avenge the Darklight Raiders. Good luck, fellow Monks out there!

I have been using MNK to fight the Chimera since there was a Chimera to speak of. If others still do not see the value of MNK on Chimera, then it is through either inexperience or deficiency of the player using MNK rather than the MNK job itself or the design of the fight.

Fists of Fire (which, in your screenshot, I noticed you aren't using) grants MNK the second-highest potential damage on Chimera behind BLM. If we melee had no reason to move, things would be the other way around. However, we have to move or we'll die--that's the nature of this encounter. Of course, every BLM I've seen is not the best BLM I've ever seen in the same way every MNK I've seen is not the best MNK I've ever seen, so numbers are flexible and sometimes I surprise even myself.

If you want to make a ludicrously dramatic thread about an unwanted job at Chimera, try the DPS WAR.