DEVs Stop adding worthless pointless gear to dungeon chests.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

MORE RARE MATERIA.....

PLZ SE

If spiked Armguards were the only way to get "Poison Barb" materia that, when put on a weapon, had a chance of inflicting poison on the MOB.... the spiked Armguards would be SWEET

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+10 chars.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that more people will complain about being expected to get double-triple or even quadruple melds on best in slot gear that are rare drops from dungeons, and which will be replaced every few patches.

Over the people who complain about gear swapping encouraging you to do all content the same amount, no matter when you start endgame.

Let's see one gets people to play content everytime someone new joins endgame, means that content only grows in abundance and never shrinks.

The other makes the grind for gear near unbearable and entirely up to the RNG of melding (completely to chance, nothing the player can do to help his/her odds) in addition to drops (something groups can help mitigate the pain of through distribution).

Oh and in your way the content still becomes useless. Only instead of being pissed off that your awesome darklight gear is now obsolete, you have to try and replace a multi-melded rare item with another multi-melded rare item so that maybe you can use that one for the week or two it remains best in slot.

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My double melded sentinel's sabatons have been the best in slot for more than a few weeks, and they were fun as hell to get. Due to the drop rate, IMO, the darklight stuff can be left out of the conversation. Because unless they are sadistic and have endless amounts of time to farm the stuff, who would really try to double meld it? Let be realistic in this discussion though and leave out those folks who have that kind of time because they are in the extreme. If the game is to succeed, it needs to appeal to those folks who play just a few hours a day. By making gear more action specific, the end result is that not only would somebody have to have one good piece of gear to be at thier best, now they have to have 5 (per slot). With my way, the player with less time can search out a single piece of gear (per slot) to try to be thier best. Nevermind that gear swapping reduces gear variety because now everybody wants the same 5 pieces for a particular class to max thier DPS instead of having a variety of gear that could do the same thing with different materia attached. We also get player customization, which we don't have with action specific, unmeldable, gear.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

My double melded sentinel's sabatons have been the best in slot for more than a few weeks, and they were fun as hell to get. Due to the drop rate, IMO, the darklight stuff can be left out of the conversation. Because unless they are sadistic and have endless amounts of time to farm the stuff, who would really try to double meld it? Let be realistic in this discussion though and leave out those folks who have that kind of time because they are in the extreme. If the game is to succeed, it needs to appeal to those folks who play just a few hours a day. By making gear more action specific, the end result is that not only would somebody have to have one good piece of gear to be at thier best, now they have to have 5 (per slot). With my way, the player with less time can search out a single piece of gear (per slot) to try to be thier best. Nevermind that gear swapping reduces gear variety because now everybody wants the same 5 pieces for a particular class to max thier DPS instead of having a variety of gear that could do the same thing with different materia attached. We also get player customization, which we don't have with action specific, unmeldable, gear.

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Again, gear swapping doesn't "reduce gear variety" at all. It in fact, does the EXACT opposite.

For the bolded part, I didn't understand what you were trying to say. It sounds like you say with 'your' way a player has to look for 5 pieces, and with 'our' way a player has to look for 5 pieces. I'm not seeing the difference you were trying to make there. What I think it SHOULD say is with 'your' way (no gear swaps) a player would have to spend forever trying to find and grind the one worthwhile armor set (ex: Darklight), while with our way (gear swaps) a player would be free to use many more pieces of gear to further customize their role without sacrificing viablility..

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Too bad you've already been overruled by the devs, gear swapping is, rightfully, staying out of this game.

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Sadly, they also stated they're not against the idea either so it could still happen whether you like it or not. If they see need for it, they'll add it.

The only thing they said they're AGAINST, is adding a lot of haste gear or haste spell. Also it seems like people who are against gearswap never knew what it was for. For example if I wanted to enhance Refresh, I'd do this:

Equip my: http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...useau_%2B2.png then use refresh.

That's what gear swapping is for. If I were to cast paralyze, I'd either equip enfeebling + gear OR a simple ice affinity staff. Bam, gear swapping done. You people who say "lol you need 82918298 gear per slot to do an action" never used gearswap, don't know what gear swap is and just simply are making assumptions about it because of the people who go overkill with it. No mob in FFXI required you to swap absolutely everything for every action. Mobs had a baseline resistance that just being level 75-99 and capped skill + merits will land just fine unless the mob itself was highly resistant, i.e Shiva flatout resists paralyze due to it being ice based.

Gear swaps are a sad excuse for a way to extend the use of gear. They can get much more creative than having people carry 2x the gear and repeatedly change pants during a battle. If we're gonna play a game with so much focus on lore and live events- one that fancies immersing you in an apocalyptic event, I'd rather not have the BRDs in 2.0 sing about how a few brave adventurers overcame it by swapping their drawers mid-battle.

I understand some of you may feel nostalgic with it having existed in XI, or apparently any other MMo you've played in the past, but it is still lazy design.

I suggest they get creative with their gear, giving them more unique and versatile stats/effects. Releasing multiple sets with greatly varying difficulty in obtaining the clearly better ones. There is nothing wrong with a heirarchy in gear rendering lower ones obsolete, so long as it is balanced with the difficulty and/or rarity of the gear so that players desire one piece until they get the next, so on and so forth.

Gear swapping is for nubbins /end of thread

/waves @ Elexia

They can't be really creative due to limitations on how gear is made. For example you can't create a piece of gear that does:

Enhances Divine Veil Effect
Enhances Cover Effect
Enhances Succor Effect
Enhances Spirit Within Effect
Enmity + 30

All on one piece of gear, there's a limit to "slots" for stats and boosts a gear can have in an MMO either due to client limitations, server limitation or simply design of the gear system. Though I do see why people kind of make fun if those who cite immersion being ruined, it's pretty silly to say it'll ruin it when the fact I can change my profession by equipping a gem makes me a completely adapt Paladin..that already ruins immersion.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

They can't be really creative due to limitations on how gear is made. For example you can't create a piece of gear that does:

Enhances Divine Veil Effect
Enhances Cover Effect
Enhances Succor Effect
Enhances Spirit Within Effect
Enmity + 30

All on one piece of gear, there's a limit to "slots" for stats and boosts a gear can have in an MMO either due to client limitations, server limitation or simply design of the gear system. Though I do see why people kind of make fun if those who cite immersion being ruined, it's pretty silly to say it'll ruin it when the fact I can change my profession by equipping a gem makes me a completely adapt Paladin..that already ruins immersion.

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You're really trying hard on that immersion counter with the PLD gem. You realize that right? Quite flimsy. It's not the gem that makes you a PLD. The Soul gem is a game tool that works as a toggle. Doesn't lack in the sense department nearly as much as "hey guys, I'm gonna sing for you now so let me change my shirt first!"

Don't... just don't try to use immersion as an argument for gear-swapping. The best counter you have against the immersion card is that you don't care about it. The gems can simply be explained as a sort of physical catalyst that helps channel the powers one learns as a <Insert Job Here>. Changing your pants because you want to better debilitate your target is silly no matter how you look at it.

As for your presumption regarding limitations on how gear is made- it is just that: a presumption. Unless, of course, you mean to say you know something about how gear is being designed in 2.0 that the rest of us do not.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Gear swaps are a sad excuse for a way to extend the use of gear. They can get much more creative than having people carry 2x the gear and repeatedly change pants during a battle. If we're gonna play a game with so much focus on lore and live events- one that fancies immersing you in an apocalyptic event, I'd rather not have the BRDs in 2.0 sing about how a few brave adventurers overcame it by swapping their drawers mid-battle.

I understand some of you may feel nostalgic with it having existed in XI, or apparently any other MMo you've played in the past, but it is still lazy design.

I suggest they get creative with their gear, giving them more unique and versatile stats/effects. Releasing multiple sets with greatly varying difficulty in obtaining the clearly better ones. There is nothing wrong with a heirarchy in gear rendering lower ones obsolete, so long as it is balanced with the difficulty and/or rarity of the gear so that players desire one piece until they get the next, so on and so forth.

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I agree with this... there are more creative and innovative ways to keep all gear relevant...
Materia is on the right road... unfortunately materia doesn't play well with unique/untradeable

Why they would make 2 competing gear systems is beyond me... and with each patch, it is unclear which one is considered superior

1 Make attaching materia work like repairs.... i.e. in your bazaar
2 More rare materia
3 more diverse materia
4 U/U materia
5 U/U gear becoming Gear specific materia
6 materia that can change the look and/or name of a piece of gear
7 Materia that requires rare and hard to get catalysts (Some of the catalysts could even be those "I get this all the time" dungeon chest drops)

If all that was done... gear swap wouldn't even be in anyone's mind

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You're really trying hard on that immersion counter with the PLD gem. You realize that right?.

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You do know immersion is subjective, right? Me equipping a gem takes the immersion out of becoming a different profession in an RPG. You normally train up to become x class, not simply equip a gem and change your weapon to become x or y class.

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you mean to say you know something about how gear is being designed in 2.0 that the rest of us do not.

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It's fairly common knowledge that there's memory limitations with MMORPGs, this is why gear (in every MMO) has a certain amount of "slots" for enhancements and why they utilize an enchantment type system. Did you really think every MMO designer just simply don't know how to add more than a couple of stats to a piece of gear? No matter the level or how you acquire it?

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I agree with this... there are more creative and innovative ways to keep all gear relevant...
Materia is on the right road... unfortunately materia doesn't play well with unique/untradeable

Why they would make 2 competing gear systems is beyond me... and with each patch, it is unclear which one is considered superior

1 Make attaching materia work like repairs.... i.e. in your bazaar
2 More rare materia
3 more diverse materia
4 U/U materia
5 U/U gear becoming Gear specific materia
6 materia that can change the look and/or name of a piece of gear
7 Materia that requires rare and hard to get catalysts

If all that was done... gear swap wouldn't even be in anyone's mind

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Pretty much this, for the most part.

They really do need to put in a bazaar system for melding. The whole trading thing got old day one. New materia, both rare and common is needed. Diversity is a great thing. I've said before I disagree with U/U materia, though I wouldn't be against U/U gear having, say, higher chances of producing materia that are otherwise considered rare.

As for the points of changing the look and/or name of certain gear or any form of enhancing U/U gear, I would much prefer an entirely new system. Perhaps what they have in store for upgrading AFs in 1.22 can be extended to work for a broader range of U/U gear.

The way I see it, the materia system was added as a gear-sink to stimulate the in-game economy as well as increase the usability of crafted gear and promote customization. These are all great and it is indeed working as intended. Rather than extend this to fit with U/U as well- and they'd have to re-evaluate the entire system to have it work well and balanced with U/U gear as well and anyone who thinks they can simply say hey gais U/U gear is meldable now is kidding themselves- I suggest they add a new system for U/U gear. Ways to enhance them by adding certain stats- or better yet, effects to them. A name change would be cool as well.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

You do know immersion is subjective, right? Me equipping a gem takes the immersion out of becoming a different profession in an RPG. You normally train up to become x class, not simply equip a gem and change your weapon to become x or y class.

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If you understand the job system, you understand that the jobs themselves are not new classes, and thus a gem toggle is not far-fetched as a design element. Honestly, if you're going to play devil's advocate don't make it so obvious. If you've got no trouble blinking your wardrobe repeatedly during intense battles, you couldn't care less about a gem giving you more abilities.

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It's fairly common knowledge that there's memory limitations with MMORPGs, this is why gear (in every MMO) has a certain amount of "slots" for enhancements and why they utilize an enchantment type system. Did you really think every MMO designer just simply don't know how to add more than a couple of stats to a piece of gear? No matter the level or how you acquire it?

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I understand this. However, I what I don't understand is what this has to do with coming up with a more innovative design than swapping gear. The solution isn't stacking 20 lines of enhancements to gear.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The way I see it, the materia system was added as a gear-sink to stimulate the in-game economy as well as increase the usability of crafted gear and promote customization. These are all great and it is indeed working as intended. Rather than extend this to fit with U/U as well- and they'd have to re-evaluate the entire system to have it work well and balanced with U/U gear as well and anyone who thinks they can simply say hey gais U/U gear is meldable now is kidding themselves- I suggest they add a new system for U/U gear. Ways to enhance them by adding certain stats- or better yet, effects to them. A name change would be cool as well.

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What about materia that can only be melded to U/U gear... what about NMs dropping materia? Maybe some big bad fire NM drops materia that is made specifically for Ifrit Weapons... or Adamantoise drops a materia that is only for PLD/WAR AF body... Upgrading gear is a good way to keep older content relevant... materia could be the way they do that

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

If you understand the job system, you understand that the jobs themselves are not new classes, and thus a gem toggle is not far-fetched as a design element. Honestly, if you're going to play devil's advocate don't make it so obvious. If you've got no trouble blinking

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Likewise, the simple fact someone blinks to enhance their abilities shouldn't bother you. I also understand the job system just fine, as it's designed to make the classes more specialized, while classes themselves are still a bit more open ended. That's the overall goal of the job system, to give specialization which as I said you normally trained up to do, not just equip a gem.

So immersion, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. You may think huskies are adorable, I find them detestable and you can't necessarily say I'm incorrect for stating that.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

What about materia that can only be melded to U/U gear... what about NMs dropping materia? Maybe some big bad fire NM drops materia that is made specifically for Ifrit Weapons... or Adamantoise drops a materia that is only for PLD/WAR AF body... Upgrading gear is a good way to keep older content relevant... materia could be the way they do that

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Direct materia drops go 100% against the primary design purpose of the materia system- gear sink. Once people are more inclined to seek dropped materia, they are less inclined to spiritbond and assimilate gear.

Materia that can only be melded to U/U gear sounds like a decent loophole that could work, but it also sounds like it could dilute the materia pool further and creating a divide in the system.

The cleanest is a new system. I mean, who wouldn't like more new content instead of stretching of existing content?

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I understand this. However, I what I don't understand is what this has to do with coming up with a more innovative design than swapping gear. The solution isn't stacking 20 lines of enhancements to gear.

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Well right now the most I could find that you could theoretically add is 11 enhancements on one piece of gear

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Direct materia drops go 100% against the primary design purpose of the materia system- gear sink. Once people are more inclined to seek dropped materia, they are less inclined to spiritbond and assimilate gear.

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Doesn't the new guildmarks for Materia thing also do this?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Likewise, the simple fact someone blinks to enhance their abilities shouldn't bother you. I also understand the job system just fine, as it's designed to make the classes more specialized, while classes themselves are still a bit more open ended. That's the overall goal of the job system, to give specialization which as I said you normally trained up to do, not just equip a gem.

So immersion, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. You may think huskies are adorable, I find them detestable and you can't necessarily say I'm incorrect for stating that.

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Right... you trained and learned the skills of the job. You obtained the gem on the very first quest. Many of the quests have the gems, by a different name, incorporated into their lore. Shatotto's Stone? Eye of the Dragon? You often times, during the questlines have your abilities awakened. When you do, it's often depicted as you resonating with the Soul gem. It's incorporated lore-wise.

I'd like to see them even try to tell me changing my pants mid-battle is sound via lore. Until then, you can continue to to hide behind the tired argument that immersion is subjective. Yes, it is subjective. Some things are straight up immersion breaking no matter how you look at it though. At best they are ok as far as immersion goes to a small crowd. For the most part I can say they appeal to people who couldn't care less about immersion as a whole and just want a gameplay mechanic they can abuse.

However, I digress. Immersion, although it applies as a reason why many people may be against gear-swapping, ultimately isn't a sound argument against it. That's why my primary argument against it is that it is incredibly lazy game design. Why try to get more creative with itemization if you're gonna let people swap em around as much as they wish after all?

The idea here is that you don't have to be good at everything all the time. You can specialize and select your gear to build on that. What matters is that your party as a whole covers everything, not you as a player cover half of it.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Doesn't the new guildmarks for Materia thing also do this?

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A resource that isn't renewable. It's more of a reward for all our leftover guild marks. A one time hand-out.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

A resource that isn't renewable. It's more of a reward for all our leftover guild marks. A one time hand-out.

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yea.. its true that at some point there will be no guild marks left

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Gear swaps are a sad excuse for a way to extend the use of gear. They can get much more creative than having people carry 2x the gear and repeatedly change pants during a battle. If we're gonna play a game with so much focus on lore and live events- one that fancies immersing you in an apocalyptic event, I'd rather not have the BRDs in 2.0 sing about how a few brave adventurers overcame it by swapping their drawers mid-battle.

I understand some of you may feel nostalgic with it having existed in XI, or apparently any other MMo you've played in the past, but it is still lazy design.

I suggest they get creative with their gear, giving them more unique and versatile stats/effects. Releasing multiple sets with greatly varying difficulty in obtaining the clearly better ones. There is nothing wrong with a heirarchy in gear rendering lower ones obsolete, so long as it is balanced with the difficulty and/or rarity of the gear so that players desire one piece until they get the next, so on and so forth.

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You're really trying hard on that inventory space/ruin immersion counter.. You realize that right? Quite Flimsy.

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Originally Posted by Exni

You're really trying hard on that inventory space/ruin immersion counter.. You realize that right? Quite Flimsy.

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Clever quips: never enough of that on these forums is there? Thanks for your valuable contribution. If you read on you'd realize my primary arguments are in terms of game design.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I agree with this... there are more creative and innovative ways to keep all gear relevant...
Materia is on the right road... unfortunately materia doesn't play well with unique/untradeable

Why they would make 2 competing gear systems is beyond me... and with each patch, it is unclear which one is considered superior

1 Make attaching materia work like repairs.... i.e. in your bazaar
2 More rare materia
3 more diverse materia
4 U/U materia
5 U/U gear becoming Gear specific materia
6 materia that can change the look and/or name of a piece of gear
7 Materia that requires rare and hard to get catalysts (Some of the catalysts could even be those "I get this all the time" dungeon chest drops)

If all that was done... gear swap wouldn't even be in anyone's mind

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Well no.. I, and I'm sure alot of other people, would still like gear swaps. What you listed would be great to see, and I think it should be added as well, but being locked into one set of gear per encounter is exactly that.. It just takes away from the diversity of gear that may have been considered viable, by forcing to keep on whatever you started the encounter with. You now have to find the one "jack of all trades" gear set, that balances one ideal role for you (regardless of whether or not your role changes in the course of the battle..). I prefer'd a system that let you focus on different things at different times (ex. TP, enmity, attk, crit, enhancing specific abilities, etc.). This system is abit boring for me.

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Originally Posted by Exni

Well no.. I, and I'm sure alot of other people, would still like gear swaps. What you listed would be great to see, and I think it should be added as well, but being locked into one set of gear per encounter is exactly that.. It just takes away from the diversity of gear that may have been considered viable, by forcing to keep on whatever you started the encounter with. You now have to find the one "jack of all trades" gear set, that balances one ideal role for you (regardless of whether or not your role changes in the course of the battle..). I prefer'd a system that let you focus on different things at different times (ex. TP, enmity, attk, crit, enhancing specific abilities, etc.). This system is abit boring for me.

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Stick to speaking for yourself. There are plenty of people who also are against gear swapping. The numbers aren't overwhelming in either regard.

Also, jobs even moreso than classes specialize in what they bring to a party. You don't need to be great at everything. You need to be great at what you're meant to do and good at other things. The party as a whole should cover everything.

It's like BRDs that wear harnesses with crit attack power and switch to AF for ballad and back for the rest. Being able to do things like this only serves to promote such behavior as it arguably makes you more effective at DPS, which is secondary to your role as support. It makes it a standard. The truth remains that there are other jobs that have DPS as their primary role.

All gear-swapping does is create an expectancy for every player to do more than what they're meant to do on their job. Promote it and then you'll have scores of people saying "Oh look at that BRD he only uses AF and doesn't switch to this or that while not singing."

For gear swapping to even matter we would need stats that actually mattered first, reduce the over inflated base stats then we can talk mmmk ?

The fights in this game are about reactions and staying alive not about standing still and switching out gear.

"oh sorry I didn't see 100 tons I was busy looking for my gear swap macro" .. ummmm no

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

All gear-swapping does is create an expectancy for every player to do more than what they're meant to do on their job. Promote it and then you'll have scores of people saying "Oh look at that BRD he only uses AF and doesn't switch to this or that while not singing."

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Can you honestly say this doesn't happen in MMOs without gear-swap? Like be real, can you say you've never, ever seen people expect you to have certain gear or even certain tiers of gear for x reason? i.e Gold gear in Tera?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Can you honestly say this doesn't happen in MMOs without gear-swap? Like be real, can you say you've never, ever seen people expect you to have certain gear or even certain tiers of gear for x reason? i.e Gold gear in Tera?

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Expecting people to have good gear for their role is one thing. Expecting them to participate in swapping gear mid battle to overextend their purpose/role is another.

I'll expect BRDs in my party to wear the song enhancing AF pieces as those make quite a difference and it is their primary role as a BRD to use those songs. I won't expect them to swap gear while not singing to increase their DPS, as DPS is not the primary focus of the job.

The minute gear-swapping becomes smooth and viable in this game, this expectancy will spread like a plague. There is precedence for enforcing community-set rules on what people need to get invited in this community.

Gear swap... if I had to do it I would do it... but I'd so rather not have to do it... BRD in FFXI and scarred for life.

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Originally Posted by Ragz

Gear swap... if I had to do it I would do it... but I'd so rather not have to do it... BRD in FFXI and scarred for life.

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Yeah, though that was only for those who didn't seek out a Gspot Horn or Durabla, wasn't really necessary after 2007 to be honest, since once Abyssea and like rolled around in 2010 you never really needed a BRD or COR lol :(

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yeah, though that was only for those who didn't seek out a Gspot Horn or Durabla, wasn't really necessary after 2007 to be honest, since once Abyssea and like rolled around in 2010 you never really needed a BRD or COR lol :(

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Mah, I quit FFXI when ToAU came out, it was either that of college... so...

BTW, to answer your question about click spam on vid, it's the same reason SC/SC2 player keep APM up even when it doesn't actually do anything. It keeps you in the rhythm and be able to react quicker. It gets annoying to watch but it does help play somewhat.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Stick to speaking for yourself. There are plenty of people who also are against gear swapping. The numbers aren't overwhelming in either regard.

Also, jobs even moreso than classes specialize in what they bring to a party. You don't need to be great at everything. You need to be great at what you're meant to do and good at other things. The party as a whole should cover everything.

It's like BRDs that wear harnesses with crit attack power and switch to AF for ballad and back for the rest. Being able to do things like this only serves to promote such behavior as it arguably makes you more effective at DPS, which is secondary to your role as support. It makes it a standard. The truth remains that there are other jobs that have DPS as their primary role.

All gear-swapping does is create an expectancy for every player to do more than what they're meant to do on their job. Promote it and then you'll have scores of people saying "Oh look at that BRD he only uses AF and doesn't switch to this or that while not singing."

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Yeah guy, that's why you'll notice I never said that there wasn't abunch of people against it. You'll also notice that I never claimed that either side had an overwhelming majority.. But thanks for the "filler" info.. I guess..

I'm not following your statement about "you don't need to be great at everything..". Not sure what that has to do with gear swaps. Gear swaps don't all of a sudden break you out of your role in the party... I'm sorry but I don't think anyone was talking about gear swapping a whm into a tank.. Nice try tho. As I already said, gear swaps just allow you to further customize your role, whatever that may be. If your DPS, through gear swaps during the encounter you may want to be more careful on enmity changes and swap in some -enmity gear, or you may be using abunch of multi-hit WS and want to swap in some crit+, or your about to use some ability (ie. Convert) and want to shorten the CD so you swap in your AF.. That is the concept of gear swapping.

To be fair, I'm not sure where your even coming from most of the time which is why I didn't bother to focus much on your other posts. Your entitled to your opinion as I am am mine, but I figured what was the point if I didn't even understand the point you were trying to make? Plus other people seemed to understand and some agree with your thoughts, so I figured I'd leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Can you honestly say this doesn't happen in MMOs without gear-swap? Like be real, can you say you've never, ever seen people expect you to have certain gear or even certain tiers of gear for x reason? i.e Gold gear in Tera?

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I would rather be able to tell someone competence by looking at what materia they have inserted in their gear than the actual gear they are wearing.

In WoW I could tell a bad player from a good one regardless of the gear they wore because of the enchantments and gems they had in their gear, anyone can join a pug group and get lucky with a nice piece of gear (Ifrit anyone ?) but seeing what materia a person has in their gear shows you if they know their class IMO.

I like the idea behind materia but limiting it to white items makes it total BS imo, not that I ever want to see multi melded blues either.

As Noctis said before the idea of upgrading AF or U/U items is much more appealing.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

As Noctis said before the idea of upgrading AF or U/U items is much more appealing.

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It is, that's why I adore the Magian system in FFXI. It only goes to +2 but hell the boosts are great >.>

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Originally Posted by Exni

Yeah guy, that's why you'll notice I never said that there wasn't abunch of people against it. You'll also notice that I never claimed that either side had an overwhelming majority.. But thanks for the "filler" info.. I guess..

I'm not following your statement about "you don't need to be great at everything..". Not sure what that has to do with gear swaps. Gear swaps don't all of a sudden break you out of your role in the party... I'm sorry but I don't think anyone was talking about gear swapping a whm into a tank.. Nice try tho. As I already said, gear swaps just allow you to further customize your role, whatever that may be. If your DPS, through gear swaps during the encounter you may want to be more careful on enmity changes and swap in some -enmity gear, or you may be using abunch of multi-hit WS and want to swap in some crit+, or your about to use some ability (ie. Convert) and want to shorten the CD so you swap in your AF.. That is the concept of gear swapping.

To be fair, I'm not sure where your even coming from most of the time which is why I didn't bother to focus much on your other posts. Your entitled to your opinion as I am am mine, but I figured what was the point if I didn't even understand the point you were trying to make? Plus other people seemed to understand and some agree with your thoughts, so I figured I'd leave it at that.

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My initial mentioning of people also being against it and that there's no overwhelming majority either way to speak of was more of a statement to put out there to balance your saying there are other people in XIV who will advocate it. Not so much as warning you of anything really. The only thing in that paragraph I'd say was directed to you is the speak for yourself bit. It's a good rule of thumb in general.

As for your not understanding my points, I apologize. Perhaps I can attempt to clarify a bit, although I felt my examples with BRD were sufficient. In response to your bit about a WHM suddenly being a tank via gear-swapping- although ironic that there were people who claimed it to be possible or even advocated for it to be viable on these forums- is not such an extreme example that I was shooting for.

Granting the ability to have multiple sets for use on the fly is tantamount to having them all. I don't see this as customization, rather I see it as the lack thereof. A means to brute-force your character to effectively perform potentially everything there is gear with a bonus for.

Through customization, one can tailor build a set for themselves to prioritize what they wish to focus on in a party. They can custom-build gear pieces with materia for this purpose. They can even have multiple gear sets that prioritize different focuses of the job/class they are for. Then they can pick and use a set for a given battle based on what is needed. Plenty of customization there. Swapping between pieces of these sets mid battle provides players with the means to no longer need to tailor make gear sets, but rather only make gear pieces and then swap among the best ones for each given skill/purpose. It takes the strategy out of the fight, and relocates it into the tailoring of gear and macros.

I hope that clarifies my stance against gear-swapping.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Granting the ability to have multiple sets for use on the fly is tantamount to having them all. I don't see this as customization, rather I see it as the lack thereof. A means to brute-force your character to effectively perform potentially everything there is gear with a bonus for.

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This is what I was trying to get at as well. If there are 5 'best' pieces for a given slot/class that we need for various skills, with gear swapping, everyone who plays that class will be expected to have them or be sub-par. Ultimately, we'll all be after the same gear, where is the uniqueness in that? I'd rather have multiple pieces of gear available and be able to customize their stats.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

This is what I was trying to get at as well. If there are 5 'best' pieces for a given slot/class that we need for various skills, with gear swapping, everyone who plays that class will be expected to have them or be sub-par. Ultimately, we'll all be after the same gear, where is the uniqueness in that? I'd rather have multiple pieces of gear available and be able to customize their stats.

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There may end up being best gears in slot. That will especially be the case without gear-swaps. However so long as there are multiple comparable gear it shouldn't lead to a sever issue as being kicked for not having THE best gear. With the materia system we already have this.

My underlying point is each player doesn't have to be the best at everything they can do via using all of their gear sets each fight, but really good at their primary focus by choosing their custom set that enhances that focus for the given party.

Oh God... this has become a full on Gear swap thread...
time to unsubscribe

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

My initial mentioning of people also being against it and that there's no overwhelming majority either way to speak of was more of a statement to put out there to balance your saying there are other people in XIV who will advocate it. Not so much as warning you of anything really. The only thing in that paragraph I'd say was directed to you is the speak for yourself bit. It's a good rule of thumb in general.

As for your not understanding my points, I apologize. Perhaps I can attempt to clarify a bit, although I felt my examples with BRD were sufficient. In response to your bit about a WHM suddenly being a tank via gear-swapping- although ironic that there were people who claimed it to be possible or even advocated for it to be viable on these forums- is not such an extreme example that I was shooting for.

Granting the ability to have multiple sets for use on the fly is tantamount to having them all. I don't see this as customization, rather I see it as the lack thereof. A means to brute-force your character to effectively perform potentially everything there is gear with a bonus for.

Through customization, one can tailor build a set for themselves to prioritize what they wish to focus on in a party. They can custom-build gear pieces with materia for this purpose. They can even have multiple gear sets that prioritize different focuses of the job/class they are for. Then they can pick and use a set for a given battle based on what is needed. Plenty of customization there. Swapping between pieces of these sets mid battle provides players with the means to no longer need to tailor make gear sets, but rather only make gear pieces and then swap among the best ones for each given skill/purpose. It takes the strategy out of the fight, and relocates it into the tailoring of gear and macros.

I hope that clarifies my stance against gear-swapping.

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Yeah see there must be some fundamental difference we have in the issue, because I see (and have tried to explain) how gear swaps directly add more customization by providing more options of what's viable. You see it doing the opposite. I see gear swapping adding a TREMENDOUS amount of strategy and complexity (as I've said the current system is abit boring) to the encounter because SE knows your not limited to whatever you were[ wearing. Since you'd be capable of adapting to different situations better, they could effectively mix up the dynamics of the encounter that much more. While you see gear swapping as just abunch of unnecessary macro's that could somehow (I still don't get that part) promote elitism more than the current system.

Just two completely different trains of thought. I just don't like that your train of thought has to exclude what others would find enjoyable. It shouldn't be a personal affront to you if gear swapping is included. You like to use the arguement that people might complain if your not gear swapping... Yo people gonna complain about everything at some point (have you played mmos lately lol :p ).. If you'd rather not gear swap all the time (or at all) then don't, play the game how you want to. But this whole 'i don't want to be bothered with needing to gear swap, and I don't want to see anybody ask me to gear swap, so I don't want anyone to be able to gear swap because basically i just don't feel like it' mentality is... kinda lame.

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Originally Posted by Exni

Yeah see there must be some fundamental difference we have in the issue, because I see (and have tried to explain) how gear swaps directly add more customization by providing more options of what's viable. You see it doing the opposite. I see gear swapping adding a TREMENDOUS amount of strategy and complexity (as I've said the current system is abit boring) to the encounter because SE knows your not limited to whatever you were[ wearing. Since you'd be capable of adapting to different situations better, they could effectively mix up the dynamics of the encounter that much more. While you see gear swapping as just abunch of unnecessary macro's that could somehow (I still don't get that part) promote elitism more than the current system.

Just two completely different trains of thought. I just don't like that your train of thought has to exclude what others would find enjoyable. It shouldn't be a personal affront to you if gear swapping is included. You like to use the arguement that people might complain if your not gear swapping... Yo people gonna complain about everything at some point (have you played mmos lately lol :p ).. If you'd rather not gear swap all the time (or at all) then don't, play the game how you want to. But this whole 'i don't want to be bothered with needing to gear swap, and I don't want to see anybody ask me to gear swap, so I don't want anyone to be able to gear swap because basically i just don't feel like it' mentality is... kinda lame.

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Sorry man, I just don't see how it adds customization. Perhaps strategy yes. I didn't argue it didn't have a strategic element to it. I did however argue that it takes the strategy away from the encounter and relocates it to the production of effective macros and different gear pieces with single purposes.

You see, on one hand you say that it won't be an affront to me as I don't necessarily have to gear swap if it's made viable, but if it isn't viable people who want to can't. Before that however, you mention how SE can design content based on the use of gear-swaps, thus promoting it officially. Contradiction right there. Massive one.

I'm not against customization. I'm not against giving more gear more use. I'm against gear-swapping. More gear can be made viable without resorting to gear-swapping, which is again lazy design. Considering the devs have in the stated their stance being against gear-swapping, I like to think they also feel like they can come up with something better.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You see, on one hand you say that it won't be an affront to me as I don't necessarily have to gear swap if it's made viable, but if it isn't viable people who want to can't. Before that however, you mention how SE can design content based on the use of gear-swaps, thus promoting it officially. Contradiction right there. Massive one.

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How? I said you play how you want to play the game. If you want to enter an encounter and gear swap, then do so. If not, then don't. Just because the content has been tailored to account for players potentially gear swapping doesn't mean you'd have to.. If you didn't want that extra dps, hmp, or whatever you coulda got from gear swapping then that's your choice. Maybe you didn't even need to gear swap because you got that darklight or <insertnamehere> set and are already performing your role more than adequately for the encounter. Meanwhile, your linkshell mate hasn't been lucky enough to acquire that pimp set yet and can't keep up with you unless he gear swaps in some extra crit+ for his WS's, and some AF to enhance his self-buffs (also help keeping AF viable in the long run), making much more currently unused gear in this game, useful. You can even choose to not gear swap while not having 'great' gear either, by simply relying less on gear.. and more on skill and focus to survive the encounter. I didn't contradict myself.

I understand that you are against gear swapping. I agree that more gear can be made viable other ways. That being the real issue, I hope the Dev's start implementing ways to do that soon, not excluding gear swaps for those that are interested.