Feedback on Expert Recipes:

I tried myself, while it is annoying, its only half as bad, even though I havent managed to get enough quality it doesnt feel as "impossible" as it looks on first gaze. But i do miss Comfort zone xD

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Originally Posted by MN_14

These crafts are actually quite fun but the difficulty is trivial. They aren't good for any sort of competition especially as there are no limits to how many you can submit.

I tracked four sets of around 15 synths and each time it was 14 at max collectability and 1 botch at 5.5-6k collectability.

They're also possibly balanced for min craft/control as I usually overshoot the requirements by quite a wide margin.

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You're showing off a bit there :p

You're first place on your world by over a 230000 lead right now. My own results have been similar to Camies with varying results between 4.5-6k, so for you to hit such a consistent max quality means you've cracked the most efficient priority system, which certainly isn't trivial difficulty if very few others have managed it. The competition is there, surprisingly few are no-lifeing it, even scores as low as 7-10k are reaching top 12 so far and I suspect some crafters are simply struggling. You're just better than most.

But congrats on the high lead and mastering it. It's good to hear more efficient priority systems exist, that's good motivation to keep experimenting.

...and there is a macro for expert crafts now making the rounds on Reddit/YT if anyone is interested in searching it out. Finishes between 4.5 and 5k only though 99% of the time. And you still need to manually finish the craft most of the time since it relies on Rapid Synth and Intensive Synth(if there is a good) to complete the rotation. As far as I can tell it is inferior to manually crafting score-wise if you can regularly get a high % of quality.

All conditions are necessary, I am making my items only with Hasty Touch and Rapid Synthesis, I love Blue and Yellows, The Innovation only twice in craft, save as much CP as you can for durability = more dura more steps for special conditions

The RNG wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't so damn streaky. One second you hit 3 rapid synths in a row. Next you fail 10 hasty touches. One craft you get 2 pliants the whole craft, the next you get 10 of them in the first 50 steps.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

The RNG wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't so damn streaky. One second you hit 3 rapid synths in a row. Next you fail 10 hasty touches. One craft you get 2 pliants the whole craft, the next you get 10 of them in the first 50 steps.

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I don't know, It isn't as bad for me as You say, I am constantly 100/100 worst I had 5443

at least today I have free day irl, gona craft to score on board, I am long behind people

Not really trying to be competitive on leaderboards unless some nice rewards show up, but I’m mostly getting 5800 - 6000+ scores. It’s pretty fun! Good job Yoshida!

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Originally Posted by testname

I don't know, It isn't as bad for me as You say, I am constantly 100/100 worst I had 5443

at least today I have free day irl, gona craft to score on board, I am long behind people

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I've gotten to the point where 95% of mine are a success with over 1/2 at 60k+... but it's just funny watching things go south for a bit and then you suddenly get 4 Good conditions in a row and are able to recover. Lol.

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Originally Posted by MN_14

These crafts are actually quite fun but the difficulty is trivial. They aren't good for any sort of competition especially as there are no limits to how many you can submit.

I tracked four sets of around 15 synths and each time it was 14 at max collectability and 1 botch at 5.5-6k collectability.

They're also possibly balanced for min craft/control as I usually overshoot the requirements by quite a wide margin.

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I'm curious as to how you could hit 14/15 max collectability! Perhaps I've been using a not-so-good approach all this time?
Mind to share your stats and approaches please?

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

I'm curious as to how you could hit 14/15 max collectability! Perhaps I've been using a not-so-good approach all this time?
Mind to share your stats and approaches please?

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Yeah, I take back getting 95% max quality... tonight I hit like 50%. I couldn't believe how many failures I had with hasty touch. Was going in steaks of 6-7 failures in a row. Probably only succeeded at 50% of them total, even with centered. I wonder what they're doing to hit 14/15 max quality myself.

I'll admit I still can't get mine 95% consistent like others here, although they never fail now. I seem stuck around the 5-5.5k mark about half the time. My main issue is Pliant just refusing to appear and strings of Hasty misses, but I'm assuming there's some sort of trick in the rotation that will always get you through to max even on bad rng. For the moment I'm baffled though.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I'll admit I still can't get mine 95% consistent like others here, although they never fail now. I seem stuck around the 5-5.5k mark about half the time. My main issue is Pliant just refusing to appear and strings of Hasty misses, but I'm assuming there's some sort of trick in the rotation that will always get you through to max even on bad rng. For the moment I'm baffled though.

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Same. Even on Balance no one seems to have a rotation to give them full every time, so no clue how people are hitting max 99% of the time.

And I swear my Hasty Touch chance is more like 40% instead of 60%. I think I fail nearly every time I get a Sturdy proc.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

I'm curious as to how you could hit 14/15 max collectability! Perhaps I've been using a not-so-good approach all this time?
Mind to share your stats and approaches please?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p21C4LeSGVw

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../blog/4374079/

sorry if it's a bit nonsensical, I tried to explain the best I could.
the video shows the priority/decision in real time, I recorded 4 crafts.

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Originally Posted by hqdm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p21C4LeSGVw

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../blog/4374079/

sorry if it's a bit nonsensical, I tried to explain the best I could.
the video shows the priority/decision in real time, I recorded 4 crafts.

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Thanks! I tweaked a couple of things for myself (using MM over WN most of the time was a change I had to make) and my last 8 out of 9 crafts were over 60000 quality... the last one only missed by like 7 points.

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Originally Posted by hqdm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p21C4LeSGVw

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../blog/4374079/

sorry if it's a bit nonsensical, I tried to explain the best I could.
the video shows the priority/decision in real time, I recorded 4 crafts.

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Thanks! It seems like I'm using pretty much the same approach. But I need to use a bit more Observe to bait more conditions. I also forgot about the existence of that skill that leave 1 progress left... it can be handle sometimes. Basically, I just need to expand my arsenal a bit with these 2 buttons.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

I'm curious as to how you could hit 14/15 max collectability! Perhaps I've been using a not-so-good approach all this time?
Mind to share your stats and approaches please?

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If you're utilizing the conditions, it's really easy to build up 11 stacks of IQ and fire off a gs and innovation buffed byregot's twice during the craft. At least half my synths are complete steamrolls due to a huge surplus of CP and there is a ton of control over how the synths go. You lose control as soon as you use WN2 so I avoid it unless it's part of a RNG free finish.

I adjust my strategy accordingly depending on how much CP I have available to me during the 2nd half in particular and base my approach on the conditions that are thrown my way. All conditions/procs are useful 90% of the time so it's best not to waste cp in vain by trying to bait pliant conditions. Also, always look for RNG free ways of finishing off the craft.

It's freehand/active crafting taken to a new extreme. Combines ARR's CP/RNG (simplified version) management with HW's proc baiting and SB's greater flexibility.

The rewards have to be crap, or you'll see countless people whining about it.

All in all, I think this is what "hardcore crafters" were asking for when they said they wanted a challenge and for the crafting process itself to be interesting.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

The rewards have to be crap, or you'll see countless people whining about it.

All in all, I think this is what "hardcore crafters" were asking for when they said they wanted a challenge and for the crafting process itself to be interesting.

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We already see people whining about expert recipes, lol. People want everything accessible, even measly titles. Sorry, but we at least deserve some neat mounts and/or glamour. Things shouldn’t be made accessible because someone isn’t good at expert recipes. I don’t wanna sound mean, but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

The rewards have to be crap, or you'll see countless people whining about it.

All in all, I think this is what "hardcore crafters" were asking for when they said they wanted a challenge and for the crafting process itself to be interesting.

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I don't agree with You, its very easy to get 4500 points

People need to learn, but learning is hard, easier to go forum and whine


My stats 2512 Craft/2424 control / 552 cp ( my gear has melded V and IV materia for pentamelding - and those are easier to get than VII )
In 21 try, I got 15 items 100/100% on Expert _ and worst I had was 5443


- The worst thing about all of this, it's Time Consuming, The people with most time will be on Board(1)
- Good thing is that, the Mount needs 500k for every job in total, so I don't have to stress out to be on board at all

Edit:
and its not like, I use same routine every time on making Ex

I adapt to proc, dura, cp, sometimes I use PrepararatoryT, or DelicateS, or Prudent, Most of the time its HastyT for yellow, but when I am 11stack on innovation, I refuse to use HastyT

Only one skill I will never use, coz its totally waste, no mater how many times I did try = NameofElements

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

The rewards have to be crap, or you'll see countless people whining about it.

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I disagree.

The mentality that any non-combat content that has any sort of difficulty, grind, complexity or time investment must have less rewards just kills off content. Everyone does not need to have every reward in the game.

Regular crafting is in a ridiculous spot now due to accessibility anyway. I get tired of seeing people complain about overmelds, then I spell out the exact method to be max pentamelded in less than a week for free plus how to stockpile for the future, they ignore it and continue complaining. It's never been easier. There are people complaining Ishgard leveling is hard and they're lv60 with lv20 mainhands because they had so much free exp hurled at them. 480 sets are everywhere too and worthless on the mb, normal raids and dungeons are pretty much irrelevant.

The more you hand people things on a plate, the lazier they get. They become used to not needing effort.

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

We already see people whining about expert recipes, lol. People want everything accessible, even measly titles. Sorry, but we at least deserve some neat mounts and/or glamour. Things shouldn’t be made accessible because someone isn’t good at expert recipes. I don’t wanna sound mean, but it is what it is.

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That's right. People doing savages, have unique mounts, and glamours. I would like the same for Ex Crafters.

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

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I personally prefer MuMe+Ven+RS. Remember the MuMe buff doesn't go away if you fail, so it's usually an easy way to get to 6600 progress. It then takes no effort to finish.

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Originally Posted by testname

That's right. People doing savages, have unique mounts, and glamours. I would like the same for Ex Crafters.

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They also don't have to compete with others to get those glamours or mounts. They just need to get good enough to complete the content.

Right now, Ishgard has something like that in its 50,000/500,000 achievements. You will NEED to master expert crafts if you're ever going to get the crafting mount because it would take far too long otherwise. The ladder based stuff may only give a title, but actual dedication to crafting will earn you mounts and eventually relic tools.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

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There are no openers. Progress is taken care of based on your situation and it occurs throughout the craft.

Personally, I rarely use veneration unless I'm behind in progress and have excess CP. Even when it is up, I might not end up taking advantage of it.

Reflect makes the most sense if using Patient Touch to win. I tried Muscle Memory, but it felt unnecessary to need to also IQ.

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Originally Posted by Cleanse

Reflect makes the most sense if using Patient Touch to win. I tried Muscle Memory, but it felt unnecessary to need to also IQ.

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Yes, that is my approach as well.

I tried using MusMem opener, but it doesn't work as nice as Reflect opener for me.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

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I usually use Veneration+RapidSynx2, +RapidSyn to get progress done at the beginning while durab is still high. It seems to work fine. Of course, I also adjust it according to conditions too. Sometimes going the naked Rapid Syn first.

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Originally Posted by MN_14

There are no openers. Progress is taken care of based on your situation and it occurs throughout the craft.

Personally, I rarely use veneration unless I'm behind in progress and have excess CP. Even when it is up, I might not end up taking advantage of it.

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I don't know... I tried a little bit. But conditions don't seem to pop so easily when I need them, so a lot of times, I tried to bait conditions.... First, I'll just keep hasty spamming until durab is relatively low... around 35 or 30. Then I'll pop WN just to delay it a bit further until the first Pliant procs for Manip. But sometimes, it just doesn't happen, and I have to just hard-boot Manip at 96 CP. Then if Pliant appears, I can WN2. If Pliant comes when WN and Manip are all up, then I'll either MM if the durab is really low, or I'll go Prep Touch, which I found to be very effective under Pliant and WN/WN2. In fact, lately, I prefer Prep Touch over MM -- It's better to secure that large chunk of quality instead of boosting 30 durab which you easily lose from hasty anyway.

I'm starting to think some of the claims of 95% or more max quality are just good luck streaks. Some of the systems work well, but with all methods, in at least 3/10 crafts I'm getting very bad strings of Hasty fails or 4/6 Rapids failing and it's the difference between 5k and max. You'd either need a rotation with no rng abilities, or a rotation so potent it maxes out even with 2/3 hasties failed. I'll keep trying though.

Reflect has been my preferred opener too, though I've been passing on Ven and trying to catch Rapids on Centered procs.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I'm starting to think some of the claims of 95% or more max quality are just good luck streaks. Some of the systems work well, but with all methods, in at least 3/10 crafts I'm getting very bad strings of Hasty fails or 4/6 Rapids failing and it's the difference between 5k and max. You'd either need a rotation with no rng abilities, or a rotation so potent it maxes out even with 2/3 hasties failed. I'll keep trying though.

Reflect has been my preferred opener too, though I've been passing on Ven and trying to catch Rapids on Centered procs.

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I have some real data here. These are the results of my approach:
https://i.imgur.com/rUp7dY5.png

Basically, about 1/3 are max, and another 1/3 are 6000-6485, so the total of 6K+ is around 2/3.
5000-5999 totaled to about 1/4.
4500-4999 is really really rare.
Failure totaled to 8.5%.
So overall, ~91% I'll get an acceptable turn-in... basically the same as I have claimed before... failing about 1/10 crafts.

I rarely below 6.1k, maybe odd 5.8 when I make mistake, or extremely bad rng, but most fail streaks can be saved.
the delineation are useful for saving a completely shit craft too; I just have a handful from failed kupo gacha.
If you sort invent, it sorts them by rating. The lowest one in ytdy's clip was 6118. In this current batch of 43, the lowest is 6228.
But 95% just estimate in the end.

Can count backwards your cp, so rather than rely on ht spam when unnecessary, just all in on inno+prudent
i mention a bit in post, with my stat, 124cp @ 37.5k qual, 74cp @ 47k qual. but continue backwards, 242cp @ 23.5k, 360cp @ 9.5k qual etc...
must consider durability, and adjust for procs, maybe I won't prudent on a yellow if lowish cp, but when you have it in the back of your mind, oh~ hey I can just complete the craft from here w/o rely on too much rng, it's quite consistent.

e.g.
https://i.imgur.com/AvdZXv0.png
this craft can 100% complete via inno + touch spam, so there is no need to risk HT

https://i.imgur.com/WsrgCFf.png

If following common priority I think most ppl would WN2 here, but best course is to just pop inno + start spamming prudent. This one end with 83 cp left.

The only time I tend to pop wn2 is when it comes early, back to back after manip, or I'm so far behind I need to gamble on freezing the durability for 8 steps.

Reflect particularly strong because there's no impetus to succeed early RS, and you can insta 6 stack on step2 yellow.
It lets you play around with the procs more efficiently rather than being locked into "succeed rs before MuMe buff runs out in 5 turns".

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I'm starting to think some of the claims of 95% or more max quality are just good luck streaks. Some of the systems work well, but with all methods, in at least 3/10 crafts I'm getting very bad strings of Hasty fails or 4/6 Rapids failing and it's the difference between 5k and max. You'd either need a rotation with no rng abilities, or a rotation so potent it maxes out even with 2/3 hasties failed. I'll keep trying though.

Reflect has been my preferred opener too, though I've been passing on Ven and trying to catch Rapids on Centered procs.

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I fail Hasty Touch so much that I've actively looked for ways to avoid using it outside of Centered. I fail like 75% of my Hasty Touches when Sturdy is the condition. It's scary.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

I don't know... I tried a little bit. But conditions don't seem to pop so easily when I need them, so a lot of times, I tried to bait conditions.... First, I'll just keep hasty spamming until durab is relatively low... around 35 or 30. Then I'll pop WN just to delay it a bit further until the first Pliant procs for Manip. But sometimes, it just doesn't happen, and I have to just hard-boot Manip at 96 CP. Then if Pliant appears, I can WN2. If Pliant comes when WN and Manip are all up, then I'll either MM if the durab is really low, or I'll go Prep Touch, which I found to be very effective under Pliant and WN/WN2. In fact, lately, I prefer Prep Touch over MM -- It's better to secure that large chunk of quality instead of boosting 30 durab which you easily lose from hasty anyway.

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You really don't want to HT spam because you'll be hemorrhaging durability far too quickly between conditions. I only straight out HT spam as a desperate final stand when I"m down to my last 74 cp. Unsurprisingly, it almost never works.

There are probably many different effective methods to do these crafts, but for me it's a highly methodical process where there's a reason for each and every skill that I use at any given step. I'm basically baiting conditions but it's almost never a specific one.

I think of the crafting flow as condition utilization where skills used in between a condition is a filler. Because conditions are so powerful, if possible, I try to take advantage of each and every one in some way.

In terms of fillers, there are two primary ones:

Observe - Harmless to durability but costs 7 cp, which adds up big over time.

HT - Costs 0 cp and builds up IQ stacks over a long period of time. Also costs 10 durability which adds up big over a very short period of time.

So I try to place HTs in places where it will do the least damage to my synth. It could be under a specific condition or it might not be. You'll need to use a whole ton of them though to build those IQ stacks slowly while using other skills along the way to help speed things along if cp permits.

Since the strategy is to bait conditions, burning either cp or durability = very bad (unless you can guarantee a success).

In low CP situations, I have to be very careful with my fillers because I can't afford for either durability or cp to drain too quickly before a possible bailout from a condition.

As a side note, I can tell that I'm absolutely horribly over-geared at almost 2600 control with food. That helps too.

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Originally Posted by MN_14

You really don't want to HT spam because you'll be hemorrhaging durability far too quickly between conditions. I only straight out HT spam as a desperate final stand when I"m down to my last 74 cp. Unsurprisingly, it almost never works.

There are probably many different effective methods to do these crafts, but for me it's a highly methodical process where there's a reason for each and every skill that I use at any given step. I'm basically baiting conditions but it's almost never a specific one.

I think of the crafting flow as condition utilization where skills used in between a condition is a filler. Because conditions are so powerful, if possible, I try to take advantage of each and every one in some way.

In terms of fillers, there are two primary ones:

Observe - Harmless to durability but costs 7 cp, which adds up big over time.

HT - Costs 0 cp and builds up IQ stacks over a long period of time. Also costs 10 durability which adds up big over a very short period of time.

So I try to place HTs in places where it will do the least damage to my synth. It could be under a specific condition or it might not be. You'll need to use a whole ton of them though to build those IQ stacks slowly while using other skills along the way to help speed things along if cp permits.

Since the strategy is to bait conditions, burning either cp or durability = very bad (unless you can guarantee a success).

In low CP situations, I have to be very careful with my fillers because I can't afford for either durability or cp to drain too quickly before a possible bailout from a condition.

As a side note, I can tell that I'm absolutely horribly over-geared at almost 2600 control with food. That helps too.

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What's your general approach before your first pliant pops? It's very easy to start working on progress or building IQ stacks, but very soon durab will reach 25 or lower. What's your way to delay it until the pliant? And what do you do if the pliant eventually don't come? I have tried numerous things. Everything works since there's plenty of CP there, but none works great, as all depletes CP fast!

Anyone else notice that Rapid Synth with Centered seems to fail just as much as without it? I've actually started to use it ONLY when Centered is up and it fails way more than it should.

RNG... is your answer to everything... including 13x normal or 6x pliant straight... 8x failed HT and so on...

I've started using two byregots in my rotation... seems to be working better. RNG can still completely screw me over, though. Wondering if I could replace the first Byregot's with a Prep Touch. Maybe I'll give it a try.

Edit: So, I'm still working out the kinks, but I've been working on reducing my HT spam as much as possible. After I get my Progress set, when I hit 11 stacks, I get a manipulate going and make sure I have at least 40 durability. Then I Inno > Prudent x 2 (or Precise if it pops) > Great Strides > Prep Touch. This gives me a huge boost in quality. Then my goal is to get Manipulate going again, get to at least 30-40 durability and make sure I have 154 CP left (which isn't difficult unless you get no Good procs for ToT). Then its Inno > Prep x2 > Great Strides > Byregot's.

With the HTs in between from Sturdy/Centered while fishing for Manipulate, it seems to give me great amount of quality and let's me keep things more in my control instead of RNG. I will test it more tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

What's your general approach before your first pliant pops? It's very easy to start working on progress or building IQ stacks, but very soon durab will reach 25 or lower. What's your way to delay it until the pliant? And what do you do if the pliant eventually don't come? I have tried numerous things. Everything works since there's plenty of CP there, but none works great, as all depletes CP fast!

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I try to minimize my use of cp in the beginning in order to prepare to pay the full cost of the durability restore if necessary. A good percentage of my crafts involves restoring durability at full cost at least once in the craft. Hopefully, by that point, I've also made some significant gains toward building IQ stacks and/or progress through conditions.

It's always a juggle between using observe and HT to keep both CP and durability as high as possible to delay reaching the point where I would be forced into paying the full cost of a durability restore. However, paying the full cost isn't always terrible as I at least know what the cost is and can plan based on that. There are also other ways of managing cp and durability loss. I'm a fan of discounted prudent touches as they're both cp and durability friendly.

What I'm doing is basically RNG management. By alternating between observe and HT, I bait for a ton of conditions while trying to slow down durability and cp loss. I also selective pick places where the HTs will either hurt the least or have a higher chance of success. Unless you are close to finishing your craft, HTs hurt regardless of whether they land or miss.

Since the number of HTs that I use numbers in the dozens per synth, it smooths out HT RNG as well (increases sample size; I largely don't bat an eye when HTs miss under a normal or sturdy condition as I expect a huge % of them to miss) allowing me to handle the full spectrum of below average, average, and above average luck. You have to be able to handle all types and not just average or above average. Crafting has always been balanced for you to be able to handle all except for the absolute 1-5% worst outcomes.

Yes, even in ARR.

You do have to keep in mind that the double Byregot's method is what I would call a safe method. It allows me to lock in 40-60% of the required quality first and then plan for the 2nd round. With high control though, there are a lot of ways of cheesing these. You will see synths where you only need to use Byregot's once or none at all. If I meet the requirements to do those RNG free, I don't aim for two Byregot's.

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Originally Posted by MN_14

I try to minimize my use of cp in the beginning in order to prepare to pay the full cost of the durability restore if necessary. A good percentage of my crafts involves restoring durability at full cost at least once in the craft. Hopefully, by that point, I've also made some significant gains toward building IQ stacks and/or progress through conditions.

It's always a juggle between using observe and HT to keep both CP and durability as high as possible to delay reaching the point where I would be forced into paying the full cost of a durability restore. However, paying the full cost isn't always terrible as I at least know what the cost is and can plan based on that. There are also other ways of managing cp and durability loss. I'm a fan of discounted prudent touches as they're both cp and durability friendly.

What I'm doing is basically RNG management. By alternating between observe and HT, I bait for a ton of conditions while trying to slow down durability and cp loss. I also selective pick places where the HTs will either hurt the least or have a higher chance of success. Unless you are close to finishing your craft, HTs hurt regardless of whether they land or miss.

Since the number of HTs that I use numbers in the dozens per synth, it smooths out HT RNG as well (increases sample size; I largely don't bat an eye when HTs miss under a normal or sturdy condition as I expect a huge % of them to miss) allowing me to handle the full spectrum of below average, average, and above average luck. You have to be able to handle all types and not just average or above average. Crafting has always been balanced for you to be able to handle all except for the absolute 1-5% worst outcomes.

Yes, even in ARR.

You do have to keep in mind that the double Byregot's method is what I would call a safe method. It allows me to lock in 40-60% of the required quality first and then plan for the 2nd round. With high control though, there are a lot of ways of cheesing these. You will see synths where you only need to use Byregot's once or none at all. If I meet the requirements to do those RNG free, I don't aim for two Byregot's.

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I am doing exactly the same

I changed my buffed stats a little to 2680 control - I am getting more proc ( might be placebo effect ) but in 19 crafts I got worst of 60k HQ , every other went 100%

It takes me 5 min per craft, so 3 craft per syrup

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Originally Posted by MN_14

I try to minimize my use of cp in the beginning in order to prepare to pay the full cost of the durability restore if necessary. A good percentage of my crafts involves restoring durability at full cost at least once in the craft. Hopefully, by that point, I've also made some significant gains toward building IQ stacks and/or progress through conditions.

It's always a juggle between using observe and HT to keep both CP and durability as high as possible to delay reaching the point where I would be forced into paying the full cost of a durability restore. However, paying the full cost isn't always terrible as I at least know what the cost is and can plan based on that. There are also other ways of managing cp and durability loss. I'm a fan of discounted prudent touches as they're both cp and durability friendly.

What I'm doing is basically RNG management. By alternating between observe and HT, I bait for a ton of conditions while trying to slow down durability and cp loss. I also selective pick places where the HTs will either hurt the least or have a higher chance of success. Unless you are close to finishing your craft, HTs hurt regardless of whether they land or miss.

Since the number of HTs that I use numbers in the dozens per synth, it smooths out HT RNG as well (increases sample size; I largely don't bat an eye when HTs miss under a normal or sturdy condition as I expect a huge % of them to miss) allowing me to handle the full spectrum of below average, average, and above average luck. You have to be able to handle all types and not just average or above average. Crafting has always been balanced for you to be able to handle all except for the absolute 1-5% worst outcomes.

Yes, even in ARR.

You do have to keep in mind that the double Byregot's method is what I would call a safe method. It allows me to lock in 40-60% of the required quality first and then plan for the 2nd round. With high control though, there are a lot of ways of cheesing these. You will see synths where you only need to use Byregot's once or none at all. If I meet the requirements to do those RNG free, I don't aim for two Byregot's.

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I guess what you're essentially saying is to avoid plain HT on normal condition. But there's not much one can do except using Observe, Careful Observation or hit a CP-consuming button. My original approach was to actually pop a WN to delay the durab from falling too fast, and continue the baiting... hoping that a Pliant would pop for my Manip. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have a feeling it's not a very good strategy, as that costs 56 CP, while one could have used a good number of Observe to bait for conditions with the same amount of CP. So later, I'll just pop Manip, and continue the baiting... If the 2nd Pliant never arrives, I'll pop WN when durab is low, and that completely stops durab from falling while I hasty spam. Maybe instead of that popping WN, I should try using Observe instead.

https://i.imgur.com/m6vnx7w.png

I tried double-byregot, but I need to rely on some successful Patient Touches on Centered to get the IQ up twice like that, and that seems to fail sometimes for me. Lately, I seem to have some good successes with Innov, GS, Prep Touch instead. This way, I don't need to rebuild that IQ stack.

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Originally Posted by testname

I am doing exactly the same

I changed my buffed stats a little to 2680 control - I am getting more proc ( might be placebo effect ) but in 19 crafts I got worst of 60k HQ , every other went 100%

It takes me 5 min per craft, so 3 craft per syrup

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2680? That control is.... out of control! LOL! I have only about 2400-ish. But my record so far isn't too bad:
https://i.imgur.com/O6oW3a4.png

I think I'm doing better lately. My max quality has hit approx 50% lately, and it pulled my total average to about 40% when I included the previous data.

I just use Matcha HQ and Craftsman's Cunning Tea HQ. They offer less control and less CP, but they're level 70 items, so making them is easy with just Training Eye. Matcha HQ also uses much fewer mats than Blood Bouillabaisse, making the process much less costly and much faster.

I think I should remeld my chest though. Currently, I have ZERO control melds on the chest. I should change all that craftsmanship into control to help this.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

I guess what you're essentially saying is to avoid plain HT on normal condition. But there's not much one can do except using Observe, Careful Observation or hit a CP-consuming button. My original approach was to actually pop a WN to delay the durab from falling too fast, and continue the baiting... hoping that a Pliant would pop for my Manip. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have a feeling it's not a very good strategy, as that costs 56 CP, while one could have used a good number of Observe to bait for conditions with the same amount of CP. So later, I'll just pop Manip, and continue the baiting... If the 2nd Pliant never arrives, I'll pop WN when durab is low, and that completely stops durab from falling while I hasty spam. Maybe instead of that popping WN, I should try using Observe instead.

https://i.imgur.com/m6vnx7w.png

I tried double-byregot, but I need to rely on some successful Patient Touches on Centered to get the IQ up twice like that, and that seems to fail sometimes for me. Lately, I seem to have some good successes with Innov, GS, Prep Touch instead. This way, I don't need to rebuild that IQ stack.

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I use a ton of HTs under normal condition but usually only when durability is 55 or 60 (unless my cp is running really low) and when I have manipulation stacks remaining. That's the best time to use it without either a sturdy or centered condition.

Yes, I would observe instead of committing 56 cp to WN and make use of whatever condition comes next. Could be centered, sturdy, plaint, good. Doesn't matter most of the time. The craft seems to be balanced for you to be able to handle these with ease as long as you're utilizing conditions and gaining advantages.

For the double byregot's, you won't need to use a single patient touch although patient touch is great as an early head start on IQ most of the time if a centered proc is available near the beginning when your IQ is 3 after using reflect. Even if it misses, I don't try using it again.