Can we report the Baldesion Arsenal discord group?

This one should work for the EU one:
https://discord.gg/NSVkdDK

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Here is one for the french one :

https://discord.gg/NvZQDTK

I'm not on the others (well I was on the EU one but now you need to get verified and I didn't get through the process, and I can't get an invite link from this one).

Best way to get an invite for the EU one is to tell one of the team leaders putting PFs up for the BA runs.

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Thanks, I got an invite from someone for the EU one now.

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Originally Posted by LalaLeChat

This one should work for the EU one:
https://discord.gg/NSVkdDK

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Yep joined that one, and got verified!
Now to get into BA at some point I suppose :)

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Originally Posted by Lacan

Yea, I get that, and I don't know if I just have thicker skin than most, but I don't really think telling someone "you sniped a portal" or "we're not going to heal you because you sniped us" qualifies as harassment or anything. It isn't nice of course, but the situation itself isn't a nice one. If they were calling the person stupid or trying to insult them in other ways, yea, that's uncalled for. But pointing out to the person that they screwed up a run that people were planning for probably over an hour or so is completely reasonable in my opinion.

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Refusing to heal people for no good reason is harassment, and pretty serious at that and if people do that they really need to be reported.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

"we're not going to heal you because you sniped us" qualifies as harassment or anything.

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Probably does under the new ToS - obstruction of gameplay. Not sure it didn't under the old ToS, either.

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But pointing out to the person that they screwed up a run that people were planning for probably over an hour or so is completely reasonable in my opinion.

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It's this weird situation in which I totally get them, but at the same time it's not the fault of the 'sniper'. Like you said before - don't complain about the Discord, complain to SE for the bad design? This is exactly where that suggestion works, more so than when you used it earlier.
That person is in now. You can either intentionally let them hit the floor and lose a potential fighter (which, again, likely qualifies as harassment under obstruction of gameplay), or try to work with them. It's a matter how how stubborn and proud people are after that.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Q: Yeah about that, you know the only way to raise in BA is sacrifice right? So maybe it wasn’t just that they were being dicks?

A: No no I know about sacrifice. It wasn’t that they didn’t raise me, it’s that they told people not to raise me. As in, I stayed to watch the rest of the fight and after they killed AV I used return to leave and shouted for a raise and the people started shouting not to raise me cause I took their spot and it’s my own fault I’m dead.

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The bold part is not reportable. It's up to the group, they are under no obligation required to raise her in there. She joined an AV fight and died. And from the way she's responding, she clearly knows how BA goes. So it's her own fault that got her killed in the first place. But knowing Aether discord group, it's not because it's a sniper, it's because she can easily wipe the group. In my last run, we had a SMN that died to AV's first mechanic, his raise worked, and died again to Eidos. So the party left him because he clearly doesn't know AV fight, and going in Ozma they could easily wipe an entire group and cost us to lose the clear.

The underlined part is a massive lie. You cannot return from BA if you're dead. The only thing that can happen is that if someone dies and the timer on BA was less than 10min, then before their 10min is up, they get kicked out of the instance and can be raised. But you can't use return yourself to get a raise. And this is also impossible to have happened, since killing AV increases the timer. So there is no way for them to have timed out in BA at all.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Q: So what exactly happened?

A: went into hydatos and saw BA support was up so I went over and helped kill it. Got the buff and went to a portal. Got in and said looking for party. Got comments like “f***ing sniper”, “you stole our members spot”, “we’re not gonna help you so you might as well leave”.

So I didn’t get any party invites but obviously I wasn’t gonna leave, like, what good would that do anyone? It’s not like that would bring the portal back. I had remembered and bloodbath so I thought maybe I could take care of myself, but nope, I died and of course remembered didn’t proc... at which point they all started cheering at my death.

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From this answer, your friend knows exactly how things go on in BA. But let's assume the things said in shout did happen. That is reportable and they should know better than to say that. But there are two questions you should have asked your friend.

1- Do you know AV fight and Ozma fight?

If you don't know the fight and still joined, then what were you expecting? to get carried through it? If you know the fight, then you don't need a group and can solo your way through it (a couple of snipers who knew the entire fight did it and some of them actually saved the run).

2- Did you know a premade group was there and what was their objective?

If their objective was a clear and your friend doesn't know the fights, then it's your friends fault for doing that. Trying to get a carry there that way doesn't make you smart.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

But the content is designed to be entered solo and grouped up within. That’s just plain fact of the matter, so these groups that organise beforehand should not be excluding people for taking something from them that isn’t theirs to begin with.

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They have every right to exclude you. You have a right for a portal, not or a raise theree there. This enters the realm of entitlement now. just as it's your right to take a portal, it's their right to not include you in their party or raise you. You took what's rightfully yours, they did what's rightfully theirs.

It's rather amusing how people cry about "I have a right to a portal" but don't want to accept the fact that others have a right not to add them to their parties or raise them lol.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Refusing to heal people for no good reason is harassment, and pretty serious at that and if people do that they really need to be reported.

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you can't force people to heal people. that's against healers rights. :v they don't take a Hippocratic oath or anything.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

you can't force people to heal people. that's against healers rights. :v they don't take a Hippocratic oath or anything.

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Being a bad healer isn't reportable. Saying in chat you're going to let that person die while you are a healer and could've prevented that probably is.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

you can't force people to heal people. that's against healers rights. :v they don't take a Hippocratic oath or anything.

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If this is the kind of thing that the discords are encouraging, (intentionally letting people in open content die just for being there) then they are really toxic. Which is a shame as it looks like the people who run then want them to be positive thing

ok now we are getting ridiculous with the healing thing its not easy to go through 54 other people to target a random person to heal while one shot mechanics are happening that is not harassment if they died there is such a thing as priorities and healing party > healing random person

I think there may be some confusion which can come across as elitist which is why this misunderstanding happens.

While it may really suck to hear, BA is one of the few places where an alive person who is unfamiliar with the mechanics is actually a net negative and where choosing to leave someone dead is a necessity to clearing.

The final boss, Proto Ozma, has multiple spells which effectively are a full-party wipe. These are all mechanics people should be familiar with from other fights but the punishment for failing them is VERY harsh not to just to the person but to the entire party. (Meteors and Acceleration bombs for everyone, adds and orbs for off-tanks.)

Telling someone not to raise in BA is not done to be cruel but because they fear that person will kill not just themselves but the entire BA group running, most of whom have spent at least an hour and a half getting to that point.

This *does* make it hard for newcomers to learn the fight but unfortunately that's the same issue with most hard content. You just need to look at PF to see that farm parties rarely if ever allow people who haven't completed the duty to join. (And that's officially sanctioned by S-E!) It really does suck that learning content is that punishing for people who were behind the curve but it's a hard problem to fix without offering rewards to people for taking that risk.

However I think it needs to be stressed: BA is content designed around the idea that if you screw up (or get unlucky) you don't get a second chance. Every method of resurrection is costly (in terms of gil and possibly time) and in the final two bosses there are mechanics which if done incorrectly can kill other people who haven't failed any mechanics of their own.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

(intentionally letting people in open content die just for being there)

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How do you intentionally let someone die though? They all die to boss mechanics. You have Eurekan potions, wisdom of the platebearer, and cure logograms to take care of yourself without problems there. Just do the mechanics right. No one can get you killed there except your own self or someone else failing a mechanic that not only kills you, but a good amount of players with you (like failing acc. bombs or meteors, which is what is feared from snipers who don't know the fight).

You're not in a 4 man or 8 man raid where the healer has to heal you. You entered a public dungeon with a huge warning message that it's hard.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

ok now we are getting ridiculous with the healing thing its not easy to go through 54 other people to target a random person to heal while one shot mechanics are happening that is not harassment if they died there is such a thing as priorities and healing party > healing random person

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Agreed but it was explicitly that intentionally not healing someone due to them not being in your premade was acceptable, which it isn't.

The issue with sniper, some of then run healer logogram, hit the boss once and just ignore the rest of the fight, which put a huge strain on the main group for av. If someone have zero experience in ozma, no elemental gear sniper in av, it is not nice but it is technically better if the sniper die. A good group might be able to survive orb explosion in the middle but it will wipe at ozma and potentially hours of work. One time i think the group ask someone with zero experience on av/ozma to stay out of ozma fight , not sure what happen but i think the sniper refused and basically wipe the raid with meteor. There are also something that pop up in primal sever- I dub it anti-discord discord group. A group of player who is in their own party and discord and specifically target discord group portal.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Being a bad healer isn't reportable. Saying in chat you're going to let that person die while you are a healer and could've prevented that probably is.

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Generally snipers get one shotted ^^

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Originally Posted by YutiKyis

I think there may be some confusion which can come across as elitist which is why this misunderstanding happens.

While it may really suck to hear, BA is one of the few places where an alive person who is unfamiliar with the mechanics is actually a net negative and where choosing to leave someone dead is a necessity to clearing.

The final boss, Proto Ozma, has multiple spells which effectively are a full-party wipe. These are all mechanics people should be familiar with from other fights but the punishment for failing them is VERY harsh not to just to the person but to the entire party. (Meteors and Acceleration bombs for everyone, adds and orbs for off-tanks.)

Telling someone not to raise in BA is not done to be cruel but because they fear that person will kill not just themselves but the entire BA group running, most of whom have spent at least an hour and a half getting to that point.

This *does* make it hard for newcomers to learn the fight but unfortunately that's the same issue with most hard content. You just need to look at PF to see that farm parties rarely if ever allow people who haven't completed the duty to join. (And that's officially sanctioned by S-E!) It really does suck that learning content is that punishing for people who were behind the curve but it's a hard problem to fix without offering rewards to people for taking that risk.

However I think it needs to be stressed: BA is content designed around the idea that if you screw up (or get unlucky) you don't get a second chance. Every method of resurrection is costly (in terms of gil and possibly time) and in the final two bosses there are mechanics which if done incorrectly can kill other people who haven't failed any mechanics of their own.

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Discord group have learnign pt daily at least on my data center. New learner can always join those.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Q: Yeah about that, you know the only way to raise in BA is sacrifice right? So maybe it wasn’t just that they were being dicks?

A: No no I know about sacrifice. It wasn’t that they didn’t raise me, it’s that they told people not to raise me. As in, I stayed to watch the rest of the fight and after they killed AV I used return to leave and shouted for a raise and the people started shouting not to raise me cause I took their spot and it’s my own fault I’m dead.

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This makes me think this didnt even happen, cause this isnt how this works. They would have had to time out to get kicked out, but that is impossible since they clearly say the group killed AV which adds time to the BA timer.
Ive been in plenty of BA groups in Aether where if a rando person is trying and actually wants to learn we get them into a party and teach them mechanics, we go out of the way to make sure we arnt toxic or anything because threads like this try to split the community.

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

Discord group have learnign pt daily at least on my data center. New learner can always join those.

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Even on Aether. But noooooooo we gotta take a portal from support group directly to AV and hope to be carried for the mount. /s

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

Discord group have learnign pt daily at least on my data center. New learner can always join those.

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This is absolutely true! I think it's true of all Discord groups. I was mostly referring to random joiners in this case.

I genuinely think (and this just doesn't apply to BA) if you want to learn content you should find learning groups. Most people on FFXIV are very nice and willing to teach you if you ask and they have time. More to the point BA is a good thing to learn on as the first two bosses are *very* easy mechanically (on par with dungeon bosses at the worst) and finishing them gets you 12 frags on its own (plus a shot at cloth/seal) which is a great way to build up your elemental gear.

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Originally Posted by YutiKyis

This is absolutely true! I think it's true of all Discord groups. I was mostly referring to random joiners in this case.

I genuinely think (and this just doesn't apply to BA) if you want to learn content you should find learning groups. Most people on FFXIV are very nice and willing to teach you if you ask and they have time. More to the point BA is a good thing to learn on as the first two bosses are *very* easy mechanically (on par with dungeon bosses at the worst) and finishing them gets you 12 frags on its own (plus a shot at cloth/seal) which is a great way to build up your elemental gear.

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I always see people die at Art and Raiden even in clear group

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Even on Aether. But noooooooo we gotta take a portal from support group directly to AV and hope to be carried for the mount. /s

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With the new change hopefully less as it would take resource to snipe support as support would likely bring stablizer.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

So I asked her again about it and for those going “oooh this story is full of holes we’re not getting the whole picture” here’s her unbiased account of what happened (since she doesn’t know I’m posting here and thinks this is just to me). So hopefully this will help dispel the shockingly high tolerance of bullying in here.



And yes it’s true it’s not the discord’s fault or even the group in questions fault, it’s SE fault for designing hard content with no way to group for it. Entry into BA is more designed for content like diadem while diadem entry would be ideal for BA so it’s all horribly backwards design.

But the content is designed to be entered solo and grouped up within. That’s just plain fact of the matter, so these groups that organise beforehand should not be excluding people for taking something from them that isn’t theirs to begin with.

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no, that is clearly the fault of people who think they own the portals and want to be jerks about it. They specifically didnt make it a queue because eureka doesnt mesh with queues. its supposed to be open world content tied to an instance, things like the support fate, the shared instance whete you hear about their success or failure, etc are experiences that only work if its tied to specific instances.

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Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

This makes me think this didnt even happen, cause this isnt how this works. They would have had to time out to get kicked out, but that is impossible since they clearly say the group killed AV which adds time to the BA timer.
Ive been in plenty of BA groups in Aether where if a rando person is trying and actually wants to learn we get them into a party and teach them mechanics, we go out of the way to make sure we arnt toxic or anything because threads like this try to split the community.

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The timing is awfully suspicious and lines up with one of my Ozma run where a sniper took a portal and locked out our healer. Of course, things went down far differently from what I remember being in the support group than this person's account, but it could be a different person.

Although the complete misinformation about how timing out works and rezzing leads me to believe it could be the same person who is heavily embellishing the truth to get asspats and to demonize the Discord.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Then the people who enter shouldn't expect any help from the other 47/55 other players in the dungeon. As already stated, people are under no obligation to carry you in BA so if you enter on a whim you shouldn't expect to be entitled to any friendly behavior from people in the dungeon. Especially when it takes no effort to get into a discord group.

Even entering as a premade built in kugane without a discord would be better at this point. But obviously that doesn't happen because people who snipe portals only want to be carried and get the kill without putting in any effort of any sort.

Let me remind you that when someone snipe a portal on the support fate, if there is a support group, then somebody who:

a) Negociated to be in the scheduled run
b) made themselves available when the run is scheduled,
c) spent 30 min to 1 hour tryinn to get with the raid in the right instance,
d) waited 30 min in the instance for ovni to spawn,
e) waited 45 minutes to 1 hour for the support fate to spawn in Hydatos

Doesn t get to enter in BA because your friend wanted to get into BA on a whim whithout even preparing the proper logos actions (lol bloodbath/remembered). In this condition it is only natural that people would get angry. And yes, when a sniper dies on AV, we re happy, because it is one less potential missplaced meteor or bad acceleration bomb on Ozma (because if you die on AV, you ll do poorly on Ozma).

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a) scheduled runs are built to require you to farm an item to reserve entry, over all scheduled runs are specifically not meant to be a thing in eureka and BA
b)see a
c) tried to get the instance, go back to A, but this is specifically designed not to be the case for BA and eureka. They already had diadem, whereby people could organize it with their guild, and premades. This is not meant to be that.
d) waited for ovni, everyone waited ovni, thats a low bar for participation
e) waited for support fate, uhh many people cant wait for support fate. going in means they had to have participated.


point is, your entire premise is based on the idea that the people in discord are doing things the right way, and others are shortcutting. The problem is in actuality discord users are exploiting the system, and not using it as intended.

use of discord to organize is fine, exploiting the system to gain more control is human, but lets not pretend its riteous. The intent is that people within the instances would organize with people in the instance to attempt BA. The largest group you are meant to enter eureka with at all is 8 players.

getting a 56 player premade to reserve the whole of BA is not how the intended BA to be experienced. Spending two hours to get in the same instance is a community hack. Yelling at randos and saying they dont deserve a spot in BA is not intended.

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Originally Posted by Physic

no, that is clearly the fault of people who think they own the portals and want to be jerks about it. They specifically didnt make it a queue because eureka doesnt mesh with queues. its supposed to be open world content tied to an instance, things like the support fate, the shared instance whete you hear about their success or failure, etc are experiences that only work if its tied to specific instances.

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The only fault of the group is what they said in chat. But, the biggest fault, which is what OP is complaining about, lies on the one taking the portal while not being prepared for the boss fights. No one owns the portals, but if they know there's a premade group there and they still take one from one of them, at least not be a jerk about it and even try to force the group to add them in their party and when the group doesn't, which is their right, they get upset about how the community is toxic.

What's going to be next? forcing people to heal someone who solo early pulled an S rank so that they don't die?

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I just don't get why you wouldn't join the discord if you want to do BA content. If you know people in the instance are trying to do a premade run, then why would you just barge into it if you don't even want to affiliate yourself with the discord? Why not wait for an instance without a discord group trying to do a run?

Anyone is welcome to join the discord. It isn't some exclusive club. But jumping into a portal (and forcing someone else out of the run, possibly a healer or a tank) and expecting people to accommodate you once inside is just silly. If you are completely clueless about what is going on that's one thing, but I find it hard to believe when these groups make it known in chat what is going on.

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because discord is not a natural part of ffxiv play, and you may have no knowledge of it.

Also people saying they own something doesnt mean they own it. Owning a spot in BA is exactly the same as owning a fate or a node, etc. The game went out of their way to make eureka/ba not something that is easy to do premade, and costly to even get dibs on a slot.

SE actively didnt want this to be premade content, because they wanted random players in a map to work together, just like they do in every other part of eureka. Light farms, NM trains, NM prep. Boss mechanics. Why do you think there is a lobby space with a magia board and logograms? why does rhe portal move to random spot in the vicinity when it becomes open? Why is it only possible to enter Eureka with 8 players?

While I absolutely get the concept of "respect others, work together" because you really can't clear content like this without it, and I absolutely think that organizing things via outside sources like Discord is invaluable (albeit ridiculous that we have to resort to it)... well, there's a level of entitlement in some of these posts from discord group organizers that has me shaking my head. Not all of them, mind you. I'm fine with the concept of "we're here, I wish you'd join because it makes things easier for everybody." But the entitlement of "our group takes precedent because we organized it and because you're not part of us you shouldn't be here/we own the time & zone we choose/we naturally deserve this more than anyone else by virtue of us being here" that's... well, it's disgusting.

Is organizing via discord faster? Yep.
Is it more efficient and more likely to result in completion? Yep.
Is it required? Nope.
Does it "put you at the front of the line"? Nope.

You don't automatically own BA and the portals simply because you state that you have the intention to go in, and I hate that this is set up in a way which encourages this sort of thinking. SE really needs to learn from this. An open dungeon that requires savage-level organization is just a recipe for disaster.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

The only fault of the group is what they said in chat. But, the biggest fault, which is what OP is complaining about, lies on the one taking the portal while not being prepared for the boss fights. No one owns the portals, but if they know there's a premade group there and they still take one from one of them, at least not be a jerk about it and even try to force the group to add them in their party and when the group doesn't, which is their right, they get upset about how the community is toxic.

What's going to be next? forcing people to heal someone who solo early pulled an S rank so that they don't die?

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what the dude is claiming is they harassed her on entry, gloried in her death, and lobbied to get no one to raise her after getting kicked from instance. If this is true, thats the big offense.

However, though its fair to say no one should expect anything from people you dont know, overall the philosophy is bad, and not condusive to a successful open world culture. In eureka, even when some one is messing up, i usually tell people to raise them. Because hey man, its 1/4th your exp bar. Because even if some dude is being improper, or stupid, at the end of the day, they are just trying to participate in the content. This of course is a personal choice, but you wont have a succesful open world if the community is going to act this way.

people are afraid to even attempt to get in BA without a discord premade, this content that is the center of hydatos, and supposed to be firing off every hour or so, is rare. players a scared of being snipers, of being prosecuted, of even attempting to play. The ones who do attempt it, feel they are owed something because they had to suffer. because they followed some made up hierarchy where newbs should only attempt ozma after putting in X amount of frag runs.

its all made up nonsense that makes the content less acceisble, more stressfull, and more contentious with lower participation. Basically we NA/EU came up with a bad, non sustainable way to handle BA. It is what it is, and i cant really say people should be required to do anything, but its easy to see that this road will not go well, as evidenced by all the drama.

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Originally Posted by Physic

snip

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that wasn't his complaint in the first post though. His main complaint was that his friend was not raised and left to delevel. And if you're familiar how BA works, you can tell that that part of returning and left dead is made up, because it's impossible to happen. It's the exact of saying "I died to an NM and no one raised me, so I used return and people still didn't raise me in camp".

When you're talking about fates in Eureka or killing mobs there, you make perfect sense. But when you apply that to BA clear groups, you have a recipe for disaster. You want people who are trying to complete a hard content, help those that can easily and will wipe the party if they don't know what they're doing and cost them their run? SE designed BA to have enrage timers and one shot party wipe mechanics for AV and Ozma. So it's perfectly logical to not sacrifice a healer to raise those that can cost you the run if they're not prepared. It's not an NM fight in Eureka where you can just raise them over and over again.

SE made it clear that BA is like savage content. Do we now have to force ourselves to accept newbies in savage clear runs?

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The entry requirements for this duty are extremely strict, as savage bosses, devious traps, and an effect that prevents resurrection by certain means all await you within.

The Baldesion Arsenal will present a unique challenge to even the most storied of adventurers, no matter how easily they have forged a path through Eureka thus far. Entry in itself will be difficult, and once inside, you must expect to face many a bitter defeat before ever tasting victory.

To clear the dungeon, adventurers will need wisdom, bravery, strength, perseverance, trust in their companions...and a whole lot of time.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

You don't automatically own BA and the portals simply because you state that you have the intention to go in, and I hate that this is set up in a way which encourages this sort of thinking.

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No one owns the portals. We all agree on that. But if you take a portal, you're not entitled to have a party help you there. It's all up to you, adventurer.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

No one owns the portals. We all agree on that. But if you take a portal, you're not entitled to have a party help you there. It's all up to you adventurer.

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Oh, absolutely. I've never argued with this. But the attitude of "anyone I don't approve of taking a portal is a sniper" and "they all deserve to die because they're a penalty to us, the Good And True Organized Groups" is an attitude that needs to go away.

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Originally Posted by Physic

what the dude is claiming is they harassed her on entry, gloried in her death, and lobbied to get no one to raise her after getting kicked from instance. If this is true, thats the big offense.

However, though its fair to say no one should expect anything from people you dont know, overall the philosophy is bad, and not condusive to a successful open world culture. In eureka, even when some one is messing up, i usually tell people to raise them. Because hey man, its 1/4th your exp bar. Because even if some dude is being improper, or stupid, at the end of the day, they are just trying to participate in the content. This of course is a personal choice, but you wont have a succesful open world if the community is going to act this way.

people are afraid to even attempt to get in BA without a discord premade, this content that is the center of hydatos, and supposed to be firing off every hour or so, is rare. players a scared of being snipers, of being prosecuted, of even attempting to play. The ones who do attempt it, feel they are owed something because they had to suffer. because they followed some made up hierarchy where newbs should only attempt ozma after putting in X amount of frag runs.

its all made up nonsense that makes the content less acceisble, more stressfull, and more contentious with lower participation. Basically we NA/EU came up with a bad, non sustainable way to handle BA. It is what it is, and i cant really say people should be required to do anything, but its easy to see that this road will not go well, as evidenced by all the drama.

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A major issue here is that people aren't afraid of BA because of the Discord. Even before the Discord was a thing people were frightened of BA and didn't want to do it because everything about it was designed to frighten people. You have to click multiple warnings and the early word coming out about it was that it was punishingly hard/unfair. (You can go and look at old posts and such if you need proof of this.)

Like you literally have to click a "this is a very scary dungeon which takes a long time and requires coordination" acceptance thing before you can even do the dungeon. That is the thing that scares people. Most of what I see from BA discord groups is trying to convince people that the dungeon is not as scary as SE made out.

The game, itself, tells you that you need time, coordination and the punishment for failing is harsh. That isn't something the BA Discords made up.

If the discords all vanished tomorrow you still wouldn't get regular BA groups because people are scared of it. Even in instances without discord groups people *never* go into BA because getting 56 people together and willing to try is a huge challenge on its own. The only way to fix this is to change how BA is entered which in turn would lessen or devalue the discord groups.

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Originally Posted by Physic

a) scheduled runs are built to require you to farm an item to reserve entry, over all scheduled runs are specifically not meant to be a thing in eureka and BA

.

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???

We never use the stabilizers.

Also, we know the system is retarded, but we re actually trying to do something about it so most people who are willing to take on the content can get their mount, and for free. What are you doing on your side about it aside from whining on the forums about premade groups?

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Oh, absolutely. I've never argued with this. But the attitude of "anyone I don't approve of taking a portal is a sniper" and "they all deserve to die because they're a penalty to us, the Good And True Organized Groups" is an attitude that needs to go away.

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The thing is, even if they said that, which they are in the wrong for saying so and should be reported, they can't do anything to the sniper. The only one who can get him killed is himself for not knowing the mechanics. I've had snipers in 80% of the runs I did. Some of them cleared cuz they knew the mechanics, and one tank even took the place of a tank that died and helped the party clear (we thanked him after lol). Some of the snipers died to simple AV mecahnics. That's a big risk to take if you wanna sacrifice a healer for someone who can easily wipe the party.

Are there toxic people in premades? yes. Are there also toxic people against the premades? yes (some explicitly stated that they only grab a portal from premades cuz they hate them). Both sides have their bad apples. But at the end of the day, no one can force people not to take a portal nor can force a premade group to accept randoms.

What I'm strongly against in OP's post, is that he's OK with the harassment (cuz toxic community will be toxic) but is not OK with a group practicing their right for not accepting his friend or raising her when she died. His main concern wasn't even what was said in shout chat in his second post according to his first post. This is another example of the bad apples on the other side. Expecting to be carried.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

The thing is, even if they said that, which they are in the wrong for saying so and should be reported, they can't do anything to the sniper. The only one who can get him killed is himself for not knowing the mechanics. I've had snipers in 80% of the runs I did. Some of them cleared cuz they knew the mechanics, and one tank even took the place of a tank that died and helped the party clear (we thanked him after lol). Some of the snipers died to simple AV mecahnics. That's a big risk to take if you wanna sacrifice a healer for someone who can easily wipe the party.

Are there toxic people in premades? yes. Are there also toxic people against the premades? yes (some explicitly stated that they only grab a portal from premades cuz they hate them). Both sides have their bad apples. But at the end of the day, no one can force people not to take a portal nor can force a premade group to accept randoms.

What I'm strongly against in OP's post, is that he's OK with the harassment (cuz toxic community will be toxic) but is not OK with a group practicing their right for not accepting his friend or raising her when she died. His main concern wasn't even what was said in shout chat in his second post according to his first post. This is another example of the bad apples on the other side. Expecting to be carried.

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No one wrote here that players expect to be carried that's not even the point of the original post that is you presuming that everyone that wants to try new content without forcefully join discord expects to be carried, which is wrong.
The developers didn't drop the dungeon/raid design and said: "here is a new dungeon/raid now go on discord!" No! They simply design the content to make it accessible to every player not just the ones that use discord.

Elitism and what not.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

No one wrote here that players expect to be carried that's not even the point of the original post that is you presuming that everyone that wants to try new content without forcefully join discord expects to be carried, which is wrong.
The developers didn't drop the dungeon/raid design and said: "here is a new dungeon/raid now go on discord!" No! They simply design the content to make it accessible to every player not just the ones that use discord.

Elitism and what not.

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Maybe but quite of bit of people who snipe av portal expect to be carried. They pack plate bearer and self heal and do no damage. Even if it is not intentional, they do themselves no favor going in av with no knowledge/gear/logogram. A double meteor can easily kill someone without gear.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

No one wrote here that players expect to be carried that's not even the point of the original post that is you presuming that everyone that wants to try new content without forcefully join discord expects to be carried, which is wrong.
The developers didn't drop the dungeon/raid design and said: "here is a new dungeon/raid now go on discord!" No! They simply design the content to make it accessible to every player not just the ones that use discord.

Elitism and what not.

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So joining a clear group for a content that you have no experience with, which is designed to be a challenge like savage content is not asking to be carried? You don't have to say "I want to be carried" but if you're doing something that expects a certain requirement and skill from you and you're not doing it and leaving that on the other players, then you are being carried. No one forced you to use discord, you wanna go solo and do your part it's up to you. But if you mess up due to your lack of knowledge about fight mechanics and expect people to cover for your mistakes and get salty about it if they didn't, then that is entitlement. The game didn't say "go inside BA alone and force yourself on others".

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

So joining a clear group for a content that you have no experience with, which is designed to be a challenge like savage content is not asking to be carried? You don't have to say "I want to be carried" but if you're doing something that expects a certain requirement and skill from you and you're not doing it and leaving that on the other players, then you are being carried. No one forced you to use discord, you wanna go solo and do your part it's up to you. But if you mess up due to your lack of knowledge about fight mechanics and expect people to cover for your mistakes and get salty about it if they didn't, then that is entitlement. The game didn't say "go inside BA alone and force yourself on others".

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But one player to acquire that amount of skill and knowledge need to practice correct? Apart of doing the homework watch guide, gear, holograms.

No dear what you speak the way you speak is Elitism in it's pure form, the game is designed for every player not just the best players that already trained and know all is a give a change for those that want to join and learn. or you were born knowing everything?

In the process of learning the mechanics either dungeon or raid people gets carried and when they learn they get to carry others too, or that never happened to you?

Do not use discord for my own option no one is forcing me to anything you presuming that player from the original post is me, you mistaken.

Really sorry to inform you but the game is not restricted to misters perfect know all with a superiority complex in development.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

But one player to acquire that amount of skill and knowledge need to practice correct? Apart of doing the homework watch guide, gear, holograms.
No dear what you speak the way you speak is Elitism in it's pure form, the game is designed for every player not just the best players that already trained and know all is a give a change for those that want to join and learn. or you were born knowing everything?
In the process of learning the mechanics either dungeon or raid people gets carried and when they learn they get to carry others too, or that never happened to you?

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We started all the way from the beginning, we grind Art/Owain and Raiden for our gears for days before we start to do AV/Ozma. Every run pass raiden will get you 12 seals. Do a few runs for gears then start av/ozma. One does not run before they learn to walk. You know this is extremely similar to what is happen to south border which i will not be specific but the ideology is similiar

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

But one player to acquire that amount of skill and knowledge need to practice correct? Apart of doing the homework watch guide, gear, holograms.
No dear what you speak the way you speak is Elitism in it's pure form, the game is designed for every player not just the best players that already trained and know all is a give a change for those that want to join and learn. or you were born knowing everything?
In the process of learning the mechanics either dungeon or raid people gets carried and when they learn they get to carry others too, or that never happened to you?

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You do need to practice. And what do you do in that case? join a practice group, not a clear group. Simple as that. Would you join a savage clear party if you barely touched the content? No, and if you did, be prepared to be kicked out and black listed. If you wanna learn how BA works, join fragment runs or prog runs that are at your current knowledge of the content.

And BA was designed to be a challenge so it's not for every player. This is what you agree on before entering BA.

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The entry requirements for this duty are extremely strict, as savage bosses, devious traps, and an effect that prevents resurrection by certain means all await you within.

The Baldesion Arsenal will present a unique challenge to even the most storied of adventurers, no matter how easily they have forged a path through Eureka thus far. Entry in itself will be difficult, and once inside, you must expect to face many a bitter defeat before ever tasting victory.

To clear the dungeon, adventurers will need wisdom, bravery, strength, perseverance, trust in their companions...and a whole lot of time.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Do not use discord for my own option no one is forcing me to anything you presuming that player from the original post is me, you mistaken.

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No one is forcing you to use discord. And...no one assumed you're the player from the original post though.... Why are you saying that lol?

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

In the process of learning the mechanics either dungeon or raid people gets carried and when they learn they get to carry others too, or that never happened to you?

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You do that in dungeons and normal raids. But in savage raids, you join a practice group. Fresh groups if you're new, prog groups up to your current level.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

You do need to practice. And what do you do in that case? join a practice group, not a clear group. Simple as that. Would you join a savage clear party if you barely touched the content? No, and if you did, be prepared to be kicked out and black listed. If you wanna learn how BA works, join fragment runs or prog runs that are at your current knowledge of the content.

And BA was designed to be a challenge so it's not for every player. This is what you agree on before entering BA.

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What if the person didn't know it was a "clear" group? Probably dunno never tried but for those that join portals doesn't come to say "Attention you joining a Clear group full of themselves" or "Attention join along we are going to practice together".

Maybe just maybe the message that pops when you join portals (dunno never tried) is something like "You are going to enter in A/B dungeon".