Please Remove (or raise) the 10 rank SP cap

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Envoyé par Raikki

I knew what you meant, I just wanted to use the opportunity to raise the point that even if we wanted to kill higher rank stuff "for kicks" we're actually penalized for doing so in our SP/hr.

Also, I can't reconcile BloodLotus's posts with... himself:



If you want a more interesting grinding experience, then why wouldn't you want more stimulating fights?

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When did I say what you quoted? None of my posts have been edited.

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Envoyé par BloodLotus

When did I say what you quoted? None of my posts have been edited.

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You can click the little arrow button in the quote. You posted it in a thread titled "Make 1-30 longer(more sp) leave 30-40 alone make 40-50 shorter(less sp)".

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Envoyé par viion

Its not fun just beating up the same mobs day in day out in order to get the best SP gain, i wanna fight orge's but there is absolute no point, it reduces your SP gain so you could go fight one for shits n giggles, but no one will EXP on them, so i have to go back to the same old stuff.

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I wanna fight ogre's so I did. I had a blast. That's a pretty good reason for me.
There's absolutely no point to killing rainbow basilisks either... oh wait.

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Envoyé par Raikki

You can click the little arrow button in the quote. You posted it in a thread titled "Make 1-30 longer(more sp) leave 30-40 alone make 40-50 shorter(less sp)".

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Taken out of context from a different thread.

Yes we all would like a more interesting grind experience. But raising the cap wouldn't have as much effect than making the fights themselves more interesting.

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Envoyé par BloodLotus

I wanna fight ogre's so I did. I had a blast. That's a pretty good reason for me.
There's absolutely no point to killing rainbow basilisks either... oh wait.

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Great you fought it, but did you spend hours SPing on them? No.

I killed an orge, was all good, killed a few on travels, but when it comes to SP Gaining the party will choose the best place, its why everyone in XI would fight over bird camps because they were THE BEST and MOST OPTIMAL places. And XIV has gone through the same route by having a select few mobs being the best and most optimal places because everything else is capped.

Starting to Think that SE are becoming lazy how hard is to fix this issue? what else is there to do? you want me to solo leves and quest for SP like wow? no thanks i don't want to i want to play with others and kill mobs. It's a MMO allow us to make party for the love of god.

The sp for mobs was not so bad in Beta why can't you do that now? like really what the big deal here? even in beta1 i got 1-15 in 5hours but at least that was more fun then getting 1-19 within 1 guild leve reset with 2 links -.-

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Envoyé par viion

Great you fought it, but did you spend hours SPing on them? No.

I killed an orge, was all good, killed a few on travels, but when it comes to SP Gaining the party will choose the best place, its why everyone in XI would fight over bird camps because they were THE BEST and MOST OPTIMAL places. And XIV has gone through the same route by having a select few mobs being the best and most optimal places because everything else is capped.

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Right now the best and most optimal place to sp is on leves.

Edit: How important will this be when all your classes are 50?

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Envoyé par BloodLotus

Taken out of context from a different thread.

Yes we all would like a more interesting grind experience. But raising the cap wouldn't have as much effect than making the fights themselves more interesting.

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Bayohne didn't post saying "don't worry guys, mobs 10 ranks above you will be exciting and challenging to fight even in a party!" or we wouldn't be having this discussion. They've made no hints at all about making enemies more difficult for their rank. We want to grind on more difficult enemies and since they haven't said enemies would be harder for their rank, the only other option is increasing the cap. You posted saying you wanted a more interesting GRIND experience, and that's all we're asking for so I don't know why you don't understand where we're coming from.

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Envoyé par BloodLotus

Right now the best and most optimal place to sp is on leves.

Edit: How important will this be when all your classes are 50?

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EXACTLY, so how are you not getting it? We are forced down a route, if you say to your ls "Lets go level", it immediately goes to Leves and if you dont do leves you end up on raptors or something else. It used to be gobs until they nerfed that.

And now leves getting nerfed we are spread out across 3 very bad levelling systems: dungeons/quests/leves.

You should be rewarded for skilfully fighting difficult things.

When coblyns got nerfed people moved to raptors.

Did that improve your grinding experience?

I don't see how changing what mobs you're grinding on will help in the long run. You'll still be unhappy "killing the same mobs over and over"

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Envoyé par viion

EXACTLY, so how are you not getting it? We are forced down a route, if you say to your ls "Lets go level", it immediately goes to Leves and if you dont do leves you end up on raptors or something else. It used to be gobs until they nerfed that.

And now leves getting nerfed we are spread out across 3 very bad levelling systems: dungeons/quests/leves.

You should be rewarded for skilfully fighting difficult things.

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Where did they say Dungeons and Quests were there as leveling systems?

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Envoyé par BloodLotus

Where did they say Dungeons and Quests were there as leveling systems?

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you now get SP from quests, you did not on release and you also get SP from dungeon mobs.

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Envoyé par BloodLotus

Where did they say Dungeons and Quests were there as leveling systems?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...336#post209336

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In regards to the questions cropping up about what will be done to party content now that leves are being made for solo play, we are thinking about the below for the future of FFXIV.
(Keep in mind that these are just examples and we’ll be adding unique new features and upgrading them.)

Casual Party Content

Behest
Public dungeons
Instanced dungeons
Variety of defense battles/Chocobo escort-related features

We are planning to make adjustments to behest to make it more of a completion-type battle. We plan on improving Behest in stages beyond its current form.

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Envoyé par BloodLotus

When coblyns got nerfed people moved to raptors.

Did that improve your grinding experience?

I don't see how changing what mobs you're grinding on will help in the long run. You'll still be unhappy "killing the same mobs over and over"

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You did raptors even during doblyns, you had 2 choices, now you have one.

No one will be unhappy because we'll have the whole array of rank 60-99 mobs to choose from, can go anywhere in the whole land and fight, but you cant do that now, you are limited to Raptors and some others that are not very optimal

Right now, its Raptors or nothing. (excluding leves as they getting nerfed)

So they need to allow us to have a varierty of mobs.

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Envoyé par viion

you now get SP from quests, you did not on release and you also get SP from dungeon mobs.

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You also get sp from killing mobs significantly lower than you. I got 17 from a marmot the other day. Where did it say the dungeon mobs were going to give SP for you to level off of?

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Envoyé par Raikki

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...336#post209336

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Are those things there as content (stuff for us to do) or as leveling systems (ways for us to gain sp in order to level our characters)?

Chiming in. Cap is stupid.

Cap doesn't promote anything good and the gains could exponentially decay if needed. But as of right now, the cap is just there to slow you down. Just like fatigue, which SE themselves said, they're removing because it was a bad decision to restrict the player in such a way.

On top of that exp varies by mob family "too" much. capped ratpors =/= capped anything else. I don't mind a bonus on some families but right now its too big a gap and makes some things not worth it for exping. Camps are made horribly also as repops start quickly then slow down.

There should be multiple camps with different mobs with less varying exp. I assume a lot of this will be worked on in the future though.

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Envoyé par viion

You did raptors even during doblyns, you had 2 choices, now you have one.

No one will be unhappy because we'll have the whole array of rank 60-99 mobs to choose from, can go anywhere in the whole land and fight, but you cant do that now, you are limited to Raptors and some others that are not very optimal

Right now, its Raptors or nothing. (excluding leves as they getting nerfed)

So they need to allow us to have a varierty of mobs.

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So you don't want the cap raised you want different mobs to fight.

I've played several games that didn't cap. All had a plethora of XP sploits that tied into it. If you want a challenge, go find it. But don't ask SE to reward you for it - the caps are there for a reason.

The game is still in a very unfinished state. The battle revamp by itself will likely the challenge landscape. Plus there's probably more challenging content being created. Patience.

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Envoyé par BloodLotus

So you don't want the cap raised you want different mobs to fight.

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raising the cap will increase the amount of different playstyles that can give you sp. You can do fast zerg, or slow high level. It will also increase the amount of monsters that are available at any level to kill. Because right now you can only kill raptors effeciently, without a cap you could kill dragons, ogres, any number of other things.

but more importantly, we werent designed to be killing monsters this weak. In the old sp con system, the monsters con would change based on the number of people in your party, alone something might be colored orange, you add a person and now it connned green (even match) with a full party you would fight a different monster. Because you know, what is hard for a solo player, is not hard for a team of 8.
The game, and DLEVEL is designed to have you fighting higher difficulty monsters, with larger groups. why do you think dlevel basically simulates monsters having more hp. you do less damage and need more people. the 10 level cap is optimized at like 2 -4 people tops.

One of the many reasons monsters dont make sense is the dlevel cap. Why do aldegoat males, who are harder, give less SP than nannygoats? because they were designed to always be higher level than nannygoats in the same area. in a capless system, they would actually give more sp in the same area, but be a harder fight.

Why does dlevel matter? because the current cap provides no challenge at all in large parties. you dont get to fight an interesting mob. You know why raptor parties are boring? because you know when people used to fight raptors with 6-8 people before the cap? at 37, people used to fight monsters 13-17 levels higher than themselves by the time people hit 44, they were off to mor donna.

people feel useless in parties, they feel like nothing matters, they feel like battle isnt designed well, because they are not using the tool they created themselves to self regulate party versus solo. What is fun and challenging to a 2-4 person group, is not fun and challenging to a large group. You really dont get to use your skills or fulfill any roles at cap.

So now they have to adjust everything else in the game instead of using the current tools at thier disposal. i dont see why anyone would be against it, the largest risk is that people may get good SP for killing higher level stuff. So what. It would be easier to adjust gains, and difficulty when you have a realistic idea of what players are capable of. They cannot anticipate everything, or how strong players really are. Real data beats sitting trying to run calculations. If they cant handle this on the real servers, they should have put out test servers.

Honestly if they dont want to increase SP cap fine, but if they dont increase the difficulty of monsters, no battle system changes will mean a thing outside of controlled instances for drops, and people will never learn how to play their classes until they get to the dungeons. Because you dont need to know anything about anything to win at behests, and 10 level difference leves in a full party.
Personally i would prefer the cap increase, because even if it doesnt actually give us more SP it wont lower our current sp gains, which aint that great. but if they nerf us, or increase mob difficulty without the cap, it basically equalls SP down for everyone. and still limits us to the same mobs, efts and raptors only from level 40-50, just slows the sp gain doing it.

This is probably why they have to make leves give a ton of solo sp, because if they nerf us or strengthen monsters, soloing is going to be super trash SP. a monster your level gives like 60 sp at times. When your tnl is 100000 that is beyond pointless.

Damn looks like there is going to be some rough roads ahead of people, either that or boring as hell we shall see.

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Envoyé par Dreamer

I've played several games that didn't cap. All had a plethora of XP sploits that tied into it. If you want a challenge, go find it. But don't ask SE to reward you for it - the caps are there for a reason.

The game is still in a very unfinished state. The battle revamp by itself will likely the challenge landscape. Plus there's probably more challenging content being created. Patience.

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better to fix a few identified and real exp exploits, than to make your whole game boring and foolish, like they have done. The truth is is SP exploits should be found, and fixed, rather than be there, but just not reward SP. because those exploits will come to use when items and dungeons are out, and they will need to be fixed anyway.

It would be ok if they capped SP at challenging for a 8 man party, but they capped it at challenging for a 2 man party, and zergable for a 4 man party, 8 man party it goes beyond zerg into button mashing sleep inducing.

The Cap is a stupid, pointless system that does not promote tactics or grouping up. If you had a full party of 8 R40's to get max SP you go kill Raptors but they would die in seconds you probably wouldn't even need a mage to cure, and they are pretty much the best Grind Mob in the whole game.

I understand some people here don't like group grinding and that is fine, SE are catering to you with other forms of content like the Guildleve system. For me though I like to group up and grind mobs with people and this system does not cater to me or the other people like me. It provides no challenge, no risk and no incentive to play your role properly. You can say well go fight something tougher but what is the point if there is no reward for it, the only reward is slower SP.

When you do Leves if at 3 Stars the Mobs Rank is 10 higher than you why would you do it on 5 Star when the SP will be the same. The only thing that will happen is it will take longer but the reward is still the same so it's pointless.

There are three ways I would like this tackled:

1: Raise the Cap to at least 20 Ranks above your own.

2: Make a mob the same rank as you an actual even match so they are a challenge, then something 10 Ranks higher would need an entire party to take down. Obviously adjustments to SP would need to be made.

3: Lower the ranks of all mobs by 8/9 but keep their stats and SP the same, this would have a similar effect to number 2 but might be easier to implement.

As well as these adjustments to the Cap, they need to make adjustments to Mobs distribution and Respawn times to make Grind Parties viable.

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Envoyé par BloodLotus

When coblyns got nerfed people moved to raptors.

Did that improve your grinding experience?

I don't see how changing what mobs you're grinding on will help in the long run. You'll still be unhappy "killing the same mobs over and over"

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Did you read this?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

I'll just link it since I'd be repeating the same arguments I've already made 4 months ago.

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Envoyé par viion

You did raptors even during doblyns, you had 2 choices, now you have one.

No one will be unhappy because we'll have the whole array of rank 60-99 mobs to choose from, can go anywhere in the whole land and fight, but you cant do that now, you are limited to Raptors and some others that are not very optimal

Right now, its Raptors or nothing. (excluding leves as they getting nerfed)

So they need to allow us to have a varierty of mobs.

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Ever thought those rank 60-99 areas and mobs are there because the level cap will some day be raised? Would you rather SE have put up invisible walls and closed off the areas completely or let you explore them? They aren't meant to be SPed on right now.

If you want different mobs that's fine, SE should be adding more mobs of varying ranks. Lower ranked beastmen, lower ranked goobbues, lower ranked snurbles, lower ranked ogres, lower ranked plasma balls, all those cool mobs that do exist at higher ranks. As well as completely new mobs.

Additionally the game should be balanced where a mob of rank 65+ completely destroys a full party encouraging people to fight challenging mobs of around +10 ranks. They may already be doing this, who knows?

There's no logical reason why someone should want to fight rank 99 mobs for SP. Rank is just a number, there's other ways of increasing the difficulty and variety of fights that A) Make more sense and B) Can be balanced easier. Fighting a rank 99 goblin is no more fun than fighting an adjusted rank 65 goblin.

"Please make our mobs challenging!" is what the complaint should be, not "Please, sir, I want some more SP!".

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Envoyé par Xenor

Ever thought those rank 60-99 areas and mobs are there because the level cap will some day be raised? Would you rather SE have put up invisible walls and closed off the areas completely or let you explore them? They aren't meant to be SPed on right now.

If you want different mobs that's fine, SE should be adding more mobs of varying ranks. Lower ranked beastmen, lower ranked goobbues, lower ranked snurbles, lower ranked ogres, lower ranked plasma balls, all those cool mobs that do exist at higher ranks. As well as completely new mobs.

Additionally the game should be balanced where a mob of rank 65+ completely destroys a full party encouraging people to fight challenging mobs of around +10 ranks. They may already be doing this, who knows?

There's no logical reason why someone should want to fight rank 99 mobs for SP. Rank is just a number, there's other ways of increasing the difficulty and variety of fights that A) Make more sense and B) Can be balanced easier. Fighting a rank 99 goblin is no more fun than fighting an adjusted rank 65 goblin.

"Please make our mobs challenging!" is what the complaint should be, not "Please, sir, I want some more SP!".

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i think the point is the mobs are more challenging, above 12 levels, 13-18 levels fits an 8 man party in terms of challenge, but no one will fight them because they do not give more SP than a monster 10 levels higher. I mean a level 99 monster would never be worth it, but a monster 11 levels higher? really?

far as the level cap, i do agree, things could get interesting if they ever raise cap, but they basically said thats not in their plans anytime soon, so it makes all that content irrelvant.

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Envoyé par Xenor

Ever thought those rank 60-99 areas and mobs are there because the level cap will some day be raised? Would you rather SE have put up invisible walls and closed off the areas completely or let you explore them? They aren't meant to be SPed on right now.

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no we would rather them let us fight them and if we could defeat them make it worthwhile for testing your limits of the party. we know they will be raising cap eventually. wouldn't it make their jobs easier to allow us to fight what's in the game and add areas with tougher mobs down the line when they actually get ready to increase the cap?

having mobs in the game you can fight and beat NOW is not logical to say we know you can beat them, but we don't care. we'll wait to allow you to beat them until after we make you even stronger. this takes away from the whole idea that they want to add challenge to the game.

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Envoyé par darkstarpoet1

no we would rather them let us fight them and if we could defeat them make it worthwhile for testing your limits of the party. we know they will be raising cap eventually. wouldn't it make their jobs easier to allow us to fight what's in the game and add areas with tougher mobs down the line when they actually get ready to increase the cap?

having mobs in the game you can fight and beat NOW is not logical to say we know you can beat them, but we don't care. we'll wait to allow you to beat them until after we make you even stronger. this takes away from the whole idea that they want to add challenge to the game.

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I'd rather they give the mobs drops that are sought after kinda like gold dust from those rank 99 goblins. That will give people a reason to hunt them while still balancing SP sessions around the +10. It will also keep certain materials rare and stop the market being flooded with them. Battle classes would then have a bigger role in the economy.

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Envoyé par Xenor

I'd rather they give the mobs drops that are sought after kinda like gold dust from those rank 99 goblins. That will give people a reason to hunt them while still balancing SP sessions around the +10. It will also keep certain materials rare and stop the market being flooded with them. Battle classes would then have a bigger role in the economy.

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who cares about economy, the current difficulty doesnt work at all with 8 man parties, they were meant to fight things 15 levels higher, at least.
A glad has no reason to even pull out his shield in a 8 man party

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Envoyé par Xenor

I'd rather they give the mobs drops that are sought after kinda like gold dust from those rank 99 goblins. That will give people a reason to hunt them while still balancing SP sessions around the +10. It will also keep certain materials rare and stop the market being flooded with them. Battle classes would then have a bigger role in the economy.

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i'd rather have some challenge which would bring more into the game. this would, in turn, help the economy.

<--- Durp.

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Envoyé par DevilsAdvocate

This has GOT to be one of the more pointless threads I have come across to date. It's already WAAAAY to easy to get DoW/DoM to 50. In fact I say lower the cap to 3 up and 3 down or just start us out with all maxed jobs.

If there is a Dev out there reading this horrible horrible idea for the love of god don't make this game any easier!!!

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You think people wanting to have a reason to fight harder monsters is making the game easier?

<--- needs to learn how to read before I speak sometimes. Sorry. I now change my opinion to: "Just make it work like FFXI. I enjoyed leveling in XI for several reasons. Some things just don't need to be changed if they're already awesome."

I think most of this depends on the battle changes. Things in and out of a party system will probably drastically change after the update and party strategy becomes possible.

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Envoyé par DevilsAdvocate

No. I'm strictly talking about raising or removing the level cap ranges for SP'ing. Bring on the harder mobs! Bring stationary fishing parties! And while you're at it bring on another DoW/DoM job for me to level because I done did em all. Without having to create a mule (or 7). Without fatigue bringing me to a grinding halt. Without the level range of SP parties killing my grind. Although people hitting yellow mobs during behest did slow me down and piss me off quite a bit. So if you're going to fix anything. Make people smarter. Please.

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they arent talking about the sp cap range for parties, they are talking about mobs higher than 10 levels giving no extra exp, thus making leveling about zerging incredibly easy mobs

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Envoyé par Lyndis

I think most of this depends on the battle changes. Things in and out of a party system will probably drastically change after the update and party strategy becomes possible.

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I do hope that the upcoming changes make this into a non-issue. With the SP system the way it currently is, I don't see how someone could honestly claim that it rewards skill or effort. Based on Bayohne's response, it doesn't sound like the dev team sees this as a major concern, so I have to assume they believe that the basic problem will be addressed in some other way.

If they're going to keep a cap on the exp, I'd rather they use a "max exp per kill" cap instead of the current "max level delta from enemy" cap. This wouldn't be that much different than what we have now, but I feel that directly capping the max exp per kill would do at least a little to alleviate the "no enemies can give as much exp as raptors/drakes" problem. It would then become possible to get cap exp from enemies with lower bonus multipliers. You just might have to fight them at, say, +12 instead of +10.

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Envoyé par DevilsAdvocate

No. I'm strictly talking about raising or removing the level cap ranges for SP'ing.

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Learn to read the thread before being completely wrong and looking like a complete idiot.

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Envoyé par DevilsAdvocate

This has GOT to be one of the more pointless threads I have come across to date. It's already WAAAAY to easy to get DoW/DoM to 50. In fact I say lower the cap to 3 up and 3 down or just start us out with all maxed jobs.

If there is a Dev out there reading this horrible horrible idea for the love of god don't make this game any easier!!!

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Something tells me that you missed the entire point of the thread.

I can't believe they won't raise the cap.
First they resort to auto-attack to slow easy peasy battles down to "Seem" more challenging.
Then they won't even raise the cap?
I hope they get it all fixed up with the newer MMO's coming out within the months to come.

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Envoyé par Rentahamster

Otherwise, they just need to make monsters a lot stronger than they are currently.

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Envoyé par AlexiaKidd

Me personally I would prefer if they made Mobs of the same Rank as your own an actual Even Match so they would be a challenge this would make a Mob 10 Ranks above your own impossible solo and you would need a full party. They of course would have to make adjustments to SP/EXP to all world mobs to make up for this. However if you are crying over them removing the cap then you definitely wouldn't want my option.

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Envoyé par Ashthra

For the love of God, yes please. Even in WoW, fighting something 10 levels above you can be considered suicide, given the amount of resists/misses you'll get. Being able to solo things 10 ranks above me without much trouble (that is to say, there's an actual element of danger to it, but death would only happen if I got a lagspike or something) seems wrong as hell.

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I agree! I don't think we should be able to solo things 10 levels higher than us. We want a challenge. Make them stronger, please!

There is a simple formula to prevent this from being able to PLVL while removing the SP Cap of ranks...

Highest Rank in party vs Mob Rank = Max DLVL SP Gain if the difference is > 10

So if your highest was 49 and you fought 64, the max DLVL would be 15, even if another person in the party was rank 1. They would only get the SP of something 15 ranks higher.

Now here is another example, if your highest rank in party was 49 and your fighting a 55, and you have a rank 45 in party... the 45 gets DLVL of 10 for SP, the 49 only get 6, and anyone under 45 still gets 10 max DLVL SP.

This is very simple, still keeps the PLVL possible but slow and not worth it post Rank 20, and also helps parties have more mobs to grind on and more areas.

The only other factor left, would be figuring out what DLVL 11+ would net you, and also making sure to balance all R60+ mobs that might be pretty gimp.

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Envoyé par Rowyne

I agree! I don't think we should be able to solo things 10 levels higher than us. We want a challenge. Make them stronger, please!

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I agree with this. The SP cap at 10 levels wouldn't be an issue if an enemy 10 levels higher was actually a challenge. A player fighting an enemy the same level as them should be challenged, and an enemy 10 levels higher should be incredibly tough++ and require a party. I think they should just adjust the ranks of the enemies down to be more in line with the challenge they provide (or make them more challenging), which essentially does the same thing as raising the cap without forcing us to fight enemies at ridiculously higher ranks.