No more QTE please.

QTE is a game killer, like every "get this insignificant thing correct or get one-shot/wipe".

The goal of making a RPG in the first place is to have a wide diversity of play. And it's online! The devs can create challenges with 4/8/24 different human players against a boss, with a mix of many different tank, healers and DD. It's a dream.

But then it's reduced to just 3-4 binary "did you dodge/push the button? yes/no"

QTE are just designers being disrespectful to their own work.

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Originally Posted by Genz

QTE is a game killer

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If it's a game killer then why isn't XIV dead?

I really don't understand why this is still a thing in the game lol.

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Originally Posted by Gula

If it's a game killer then why isn't XIV dead?

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Because previously you didn't wipe your party if one person failed. That's one of the two big issues with the current QTE in 5.3.

I think if QTE is done right its fine. The only one that comes to mind is Susano. Required 1 person to do it and the rest had to do their thing. THe bind/chains on everyone is getting a bit old.

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Originally Posted by Lhunuial

Because previously you didn't wipe your party if one person failed. That's one of the two big issues with the current QTE in 5.3.

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You didn't answer my question. You said it's a game killer. And FFXIV is not dead. So how is it a game killer? Did you mean perhaps, something that killed your gameplay experience? Maybe this instance in particular killing your run because some 1 person couldn't get it?

Because your wording is sending a wholly different message.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

??
I’ve never had it end without a full bar.
Going ham on a keyboard isn’t hard.

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yeah. Judging but a lot of responses here, I think a lot of people are using their mouse or just clicking one button on the keyboard. I place both hands on the home row and smash buttons as fast as I can.

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Originally Posted by Delis

yeah. Judging but a lot of responses here, I think a lot of people are using their mouse or just clicking one button on the keyboard. I place both hands on the home row and smash buttons as fast as I can.

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Then isn't that on the player? I play on controller and since day one I press all the buttons and move the analog sticks. I just watched the lastest eps of Mr.Happy's podcast and apparently theres alot of people who don't have video game sense. If you're just pressing one button over and over again stop. And stop just literally right clicking.. no wonder people fail the easlier ones if thats the case. If you see that QTE mash everything please. Stop injurying your pride. I'm kindof joking here but I was shocked there's still tons of people out there who don't know to mash everything. Like.. how?

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Originally Posted by Delis

yeah. Judging but a lot of responses here, I think a lot of people are using their mouse or just clicking one button on the keyboard. I place both hands on the home row and smash buttons as fast as I can.

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As strange as it sounds, not all keyboard clicks seem equal. The two times I did it, the first stayed low, the second stayed high, but there were noticeable times where it would drop by a little bit before going back up. I am unsure what causes it.

I actually like the idea that if one person fails it, we all wipe. Finally people are held accountable for playing the game putting fourth effort. Also it's really not at all hard to click and mash your keyboard at the same time. Why do people complain once something new is added that requires anything from them? We got a challenging trial and this fit with it, deal with it.

The music change is the worst part to breaking the feel of the fight. The Hades one is a brutal interruption. Otherwise they're fine.

It seems like square should make it clear that you can mash multiple buttons though (there are lots of people in this thread who think you have to spam click the button, pretty difficult!), and probably not have you wipe if one person fails.

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Originally Posted by Valic

I actually like the idea that if one person fails it, we all wipe. Finally people are held accountable for playing the game putting fourth effort. Also it's really not at all hard to click and mash your keyboard at the same time. Why do people complain once something new is added that requires anything from them? We got a challenging trial and this fit with it, deal with it.

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I agree fully that I love that everyone has to be awake for that. We need more of things like that, that's the best way to stop people from being lazy. I will say though that it may not be as simple as "just press everything" apparently going by this topic there's abit of people who just can't. I can't relate because I can mash with the best of, toughed the leather, unlike sonic I don't cuckle, I rather mash my buttons. Sorry but it was right there.

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Originally Posted by Lhunuial

I hate the QTE in the 5.3 trial. I've talked about it in different threads. I can't keep it up to keep smashing that button and because of it I keep failing and I can't finish the MSQ. This is really poor design and it doesn't take into account that some people with physical issues won't be able to do this QTE, especially not if they have to do it several times in a row because they keep failing. Latency issues and lag spikes also don't help. It is not fun at all and right now I'm even too anxious to try again.

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Are you just pushing one button? Push a bunch at the same time!

yeah my girlfriend has neuropathy and it's tough on her hands. I was worried if she would be able to do that part cause I had to mash pretty hard but she got it :D. If they wanna leave it in they should have an option that makes it easier for people with disabilities I think

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Can hit any button on a controller too, but even then the bar would dip below half after spamming.

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I've never had it drop below 3/4 using controller...I just run my thumbs along the square, triangle, circle and x buttons, as well as the D-pad. Can also use the triggers to add to it.

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Originally Posted by SockOutlet

Are you just pushing one button? Push a bunch at the same time!

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I've tried. My hands start hurting by the time it really matters to push the buttons and then I can't keep it up. If I'm having a good day I can do it, but if my symptoms act up then I'm not able to do it. One of my friends is also not able to do it once she's taken her meds, because they slow her reaction time.

I've known every console at their times. I don't discover QTEs in 2020.
Every QTE I encountered asked me to click one specific button.
Some QTEs asked me to switch buttons, naming them.
Some QTEs warned me to not use autofire.

I have never Encountered a QTE letting me guess what button to hit.
I have never Encountered a QTE letting me guess I could hit more than one button.
I have never Encountered a QTE that would punish those playing with me because I can't hit fast enough.

Hitting any and many buttons for a QTE has never been obvious.

I'm glad I can chose to never do this trial again.
I'm disappointed I was forced to do it to follow the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Valic

Finally people are held accountable for playing the game putting fourth effort.

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Are you saying people, who, for example, physically can't smash buttons like crazy for 10 or so seconds not puttin effort in a fight?

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Originally Posted by Valic

We got a challenging trial and this fit with it, deal with it.

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Funny how SE make every solo duty in MSQ an experience for everyone with added difficulty change, but the very last fight is suddenly "not for everyone". Like, if you want a challenge, go do extreme version. Normal difficulty trial shoudn't leave us with hands hurting after it.

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Originally Posted by Lhunuial

I've tried. My hands start hurting by the time it really matters to push the buttons and then I can't keep it up. If I'm having a good day I can do it, but if my symptoms act up then I'm not able to do it. One of my friends is also not able to do it once she's taken her meds, because they slow her reaction time.

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I understand you very well and understand how this can ruin the mood, especially if you read comments from people who do not want to understand the problem.

I do not know you, but I am grateful for your courage and resilience, for the fact that you are not afraid to speak, although they do not want to hear your voice.

Fine if people need a method they can tick on to help them beat it but honestly... I feel like people think any form of difficulty/challenge = GO TO HARDCORE CONTENT. Maybe I'ma sound like a boomer but back in the day, we played games like Metal Gear Solid with mechanics the very same as what we're going through now(button mashing until YES, OUR FINGERS HURT). What did people do back when games couldn't be patched, changed, or you simply "couldn't do it"??.... We found an alternative method to progressing however we could. We held ourselves accountable for our own progression and the need/desire to see forward. We didn't complain every corner something made us have to keep trying, we just kept trying... Cuz it's a game, you're SUPPOSED to be challenged at least to SOME degree. The ending fight of ShB SHOULD be relatively difficult seeing as it closes up the expansion and ends on a powerful note.... I wouldn't have it any other way.

While I completely and utterly understand disabilities and things that hinder people, I don't think because of the common denominator should everyone else also have things easier for them. I'm not saying it doesn't suck to have a handicap or issues but I am saying if the game offered some means of that to EVERYONE, it simply defeats difficulty of any form of challenge for the common player. It'd be like having an automatic jump button in a mario game for people who can't use their right thumb and then everyone else going "oh, well I can just use that then and say screw it".

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Originally Posted by Maeka

You talking about the 8man 5.3 MSQ?

It's one button. One Button, that you click though albeit it they give you very little advance warning you need to do so and I nearly lost it because my hand was nowhere near the mouse at the time and I barely grabbed it in time.

That, and... I will admit that having to spam clicks is exhausting for the finger and can actually cause RSI in some individuals. They could at least have like 2-3 buttons you have to click as they light up or something so it ain't just "spam clicks on this button".

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Incidentally, you can hammer your keyboard for this one, but it’s still unusually tight. Just not crush your mouse and get RSI flares tight by left clicking tight.

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Originally Posted by Valic

While I completely and utterly understand disabilities and things that hinder people, I don't think because of the common denominator should everyone else also have things easier for them. I'm not saying it doesn't suck to have a handicap or issues but I am saying if the game offered some means of that to EVERYONE, it simply defeats difficulty of any form of challenge for the common player. It'd be like having an automatic jump button in a mario game for people who can't use their right thumb and then everyone else going "oh, well I can just use that then and say screw it".

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Sorry, but you're lying. The challenge you are talking about could be tactical, and not depend on bluntly pressing a button a thousand times at a rate that the player cannot afford for some reason. Did you say something about lazy people? Disability and laziness are not the same thing.

Valic, you seem to not see the main point here.
Noone says "handle us the story on a nice plate". People just said "stop putting in mechanics that are not fun and not doable for some at the same time in a damn easy difficulty fight". Brag about your "old expience" as much as you like, but ask yourself this: does the "need/desire to see forward" helps people to somehow skip unfun mechanic or find the way to do the fight differently if they can't do it cuz they happen to have a "handicap"?

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Originally Posted by Valic

Fine if people need a method they can tick on to help them beat it but honestly... I feel like people think any form of difficulty/challenge = GO TO HARDCORE CONTENT. Maybe I'ma sound like a boomer but back in the day, we played games like Metal Gear Solid with mechanics the very same as what we're going through now(button mashing until YES, OUR FINGERS HURT). What did people do back when games couldn't be patched, changed, or you simply "couldn't do it"??.... We found an alternative method to progressing however we could. We held ourselves accountable for our own progression and the need/desire to see forward. We didn't complain every corner something made us have to keep trying, we just kept trying... Cuz it's a game, you're SUPPOSED to be challenged at least to SOME degree. The ending fight of ShB SHOULD be relatively difficult seeing as it closes up the expansion and ends on a powerful note.... I wouldn't have it any other way.

While I completely and utterly understand disabilities and things that hinder people, I don't think because of the common denominator should everyone else also have things easier for them. I'm not saying it doesn't suck to have a handicap or issues but I am saying if the game offered some means of that to EVERYONE, it simply defeats difficulty of any form of challenge for the common player. It'd be like having an automatic jump button in a mario game for people who can't use their right thumb and then everyone else going "oh, well I can just use that then and say screw it".

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As Hatfright and RajNish said above: You are not seeing the point. We are not saying "Hand the game to us on a silver platter". There is no alternative method here. This mechanic is fail and wipe the group. The alternative would be die and don't hold back the group, let the healer rez the dead person afterwards. That's how it was in previous QTEs in FFXIV. That is what we're asking for. So we can at least continue the story. Is that really too much to ask?

Now we're being kept from finishing the story because we fail this QTE.

Back in the day was back in the day. Back in the day I didn't have the issues I have now. Now is now. Do not tell me I haven't tried when I have tried a number of times. When I die to a mechanic I keep on trying until I make it, but this one is different.

This is terribly unfair when people with disabilities are told that "hey, don't be lazy!" if they can't do QTE! It looks like a compulsion not to play on normal or higher. I understand when the complexity of mechanics lies in interesting tactics, some kind of puzzle, when players need to unite and solve a problem, but... to push buttons at high speed? Seriously? If you remove QTE, what will change and what will the game lose? Nothing.

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Originally Posted by Lhunuial

As Hatfright and RajNish said above: You are not seeing the point. We are not saying "Hand the game to us on a silver platter". There is no alternative method here. This mechanic is fail and wipe the group. The alternative would be die and don't hold back the group, let the healer rez the dead person afterwards. That's how it was in previous QTEs in FFXIV. That is what we're asking for. So we can at least continue the story. Is that really too much to ask?

Now we're being kept from finishing the story because we fail this QTE.

Back in the day was back in the day. Back in the day I didn't have the issues I have now. Now is now. Do not tell me I haven't tried when I have tried a number of times. When I die to a mechanic I keep on trying until I make it, but this one is different.

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See while I'm willing to understand how others feel, you flat out asking for the one thing I like about the fight to be change is why I don't want it changed. might as well hand a win over if you take away the everyone must pass to win mech in this one trial. That's the part of the fight I like. I rather the mech is nerf only a TINY bit. Because nerf it too much andd it's just normal boring blargh we have enough of. Take away that part of the fight where we all have to pass makes the struggle worthless.

Maybe the QTE should just change to something like a fast DDR motion instead? That way it can still be hard and keep everyone must pass while not killing your fingers? I rather a change then take out anything. Lets NOT nerf this PLEASE. Cause you know for a fact SE will bring down the nuke if they do. Lets not make this another steps of faith.


OOH I KNOW! They should make it the QCF double motion like a Shinko Hadoken motion. That way it's still abit hard to perform it perfectly maybe and people keep their fingers.

I don't mind them, but that latest one is an oof
I already have carpal tunnel, SE, you don't need to remind me of it :P

There is a difference between donjons, trials and raids you encounter during the MSQ and those re-designed to be challenging and rewarding.


Accessibility vs challenge.


One may find punishing QTEs challenging, they're still not accessible.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

See while I'm willing to understand how others feel, you flat out asking for the one thing I like about the fight to be change is why I don't want it changed. might as well hand a win over if you take away the everyone must pass to win mech in this one trial. That's the part of the fight I like. I rather the mech is nerf only a TINY bit. Because nerf it too much andd it's just normal boring blargh we have enough of. Take away that part of the fight where we all have to pass makes the struggle worthless.

Maybe the QTE should just change to something like a fast DDR motion instead? That way it can still be hard and keep everyone must pass while not killing your fingers? I rather a change then take out anything. Lets NOT nerf this PLEASE. Cause you know for a fact SE will bring down the nuke if they do. Lets not make this another steps of faith.


OOH I KNOW! They should make it the QCF double motion like a Shinko Hadoken motion. That way it's still abit hard to perform it perfectly maybe and people keep their fingers.

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Let me get this straight. You like having to do the trial over and over again because one single person keeps failing the QTE? No, you don't. You'd get annoyed and call out the person who keeps your party from progressing the fight and in the worst case scenario kick them from your group.

I'm asking for what happens in every previous QTE. That the person who fails the QTE dies, and needs to be rezzed, while the rest of the party can continue the fight. Is that really too much?

You are not understanding where I'm coming from. You are basically saying: Yeah, I want people to keep failing and be frustrated they can't progress the story. I don't care they get kicked out of groups and are thus stuck in a loop.

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Originally Posted by Valic

Fine if people need a method they can tick on to help them beat it but honestly... I feel like people think any form of difficulty/challenge = GO TO HARDCORE CONTENT. Maybe I'ma sound like a boomer but back in the day, we played games like Metal Gear Solid with mechanics the very same as what we're going through now(button mashing until YES, OUR FINGERS HURT). What did people do back when games couldn't be patched, changed, or you simply "couldn't do it"??.... We found an alternative method to progressing however we could. We held ourselves accountable for our own progression and the need/desire to see forward. We didn't complain every corner something made us have to keep trying, we just kept trying... Cuz it's a game, you're SUPPOSED to be challenged at least to SOME degree. The ending fight of ShB SHOULD be relatively difficult seeing as it closes up the expansion and ends on a powerful note.... I wouldn't have it any other way.

While I completely and utterly understand disabilities and things that hinder people, I don't think because of the common denominator should everyone else also have things easier for them. I'm not saying it doesn't suck to have a handicap or issues but I am saying if the game offered some means of that to EVERYONE, it simply defeats difficulty of any form of challenge for the common player. It'd be like having an automatic jump button in a mario game for people who can't use their right thumb and then everyone else going "oh, well I can just use that then and say screw it".

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I wonder what Psycho Mantis would think of how much you play XIV.

As I said on another discussion of this fight, the qte itself is okay, but the "all 8 must pass or you wipe" part is a bit harsh, especially when every other fight before this was "miss, you die but everyone else continues". Had a fail on a Trials Roulette run because the tank dced right when that part happened.

I think that msq content should be challenging, but mashing a button super fast or you wipe isn't "challenge".

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Originally Posted by Infindox

but mashing a button super fast or you wipe isn't "challenge".

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If it's hard for someone it's a challenge for them.

Was it hard for people to manage? Yes. Then it was a challenge. That's just objective.

As a healthy person, and having played for a long time, I have watched many SE mistakes. And many of them led to really serious consequences, as at the start of the SB with Russia and Brazil. But, in terms of content, everything was acceptable, since the game unites two camps in the community, we must take this fact into account. And even for me, who loves hardcore, it was a surprise why I should forcibly exploit my gamepad for no particular reason, it costs money. And we have always had hard versions (conditionally common) for everyone, and extreme ones for people who want to be more difficult. But such a QTE is really terrible, it is difficult for people with individual problems, it requires me to reduce the operating time of the gamepad, and it is not extreme, it is a pass-through trial for the plot. And it turns out that they simply put one camp of players under the conditions of another, which is unacceptable!

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Originally Posted by Gula

If it's hard for someone it's a challenge for them.

Was it hard for people to manage? Yes. Then it was a challenge. That's just objective.

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This is not entirely objective, since the game began to position itself as a hybrid of casual and hardcore. And violation of these boundaries leads to natural problems that are very critical for the community.

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Originally Posted by Gula

If it's hard for someone it's a challenge for them.

Was it hard for people to manage? Yes. Then it was a challenge. That's just objective.

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What I meant was making that part susceptible to the whim of someone's connection is not the kind of challenge that I want in fights. That's not a challenge based on skill, and therefore it's more of a hinderance then anything else.

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Originally Posted by Lhunuial

Let me get this straight. You like having to do the trial over and over again because one single person keeps failing the QTE? No, you don't. You'd get annoyed and call out the person who keeps your party from progressing the fight and in the worst case scenario kick them from your group.

I'm asking for what happens in every previous QTE. That the person who fails the QTE dies, and needs to be rezzed, while the rest of the party can continue the fight. Is that really too much?

You are not understanding where I'm coming from. You are basically saying: Yeah, I want people to keep failing and be frustrated they can't progress the story. I don't care they get kicked out of groups and are thus stuck in a loop.

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From what they are saying I'mma guess yes it is abit much. Cause they are wanting the everyone dies if one fails to stay in the fight. You asking them to change that goes against what they literally said in their post. Would a change to the QTE be all that bad honestly? If that's changed to what they asked for or something else wouldn't that solve the problem you have with it?

I mean we had those "press the DDR buttons" events for christmas and you saw how many people disliked that... My point isn't "you people with disabilities are being lazy" but I love how you guys shove words in my mouth. My point is, we found a way to keep going regardless instead of asking for accommodations to be made every instance we were stuck.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

As I said on another discussion of this fight, the qte itself is okay, but the "all 8 must pass or you wipe" part is a bit harsh, especially when every other fight before this was "miss, you die but everyone else continues". Had a fail on a Trials Roulette run because the tank dced right when that part happened.

I think that msq content should be challenging, but mashing a button super fast or you wipe isn't "challenge".

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https://imgur.com/L9T3xHj

I would say it is. Can you handle 12 seconds of keeping the gauge up? You did? Good you earned to see what comes next. You didn't? Well, try again next time, you can do it.

It's really not that bad as people make it out to be. I think the punishment is just fine to the trial's severity.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I wonder what Psycho Mantis would think of how much you play XIV.

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He would call me out if I used one of those controllers that repeats the button when held down :^)

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Originally Posted by Lhunuial

As Hatfright and RajNish said above: You are not seeing the point. We are not saying "Hand the game to us on a silver platter". There is no alternative method here. This mechanic is fail and wipe the group. The alternative would be die and don't hold back the group, let the healer rez the dead person afterwards. That's how it was in previous QTEs in FFXIV. That is what we're asking for. So we can at least continue the story. Is that really too much to ask?

Now we're being kept from finishing the story because we fail this QTE.

Back in the day was back in the day. Back in the day I didn't have the issues I have now. Now is now. Do not tell me I haven't tried when I have tried a number of times. When I die to a mechanic I keep on trying until I make it, but this one is different.

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Again, I get your point but I disagree. The alternative before allows you the leniency to fail, this doesn't, and that is normal for a challenge and lord knows I felt it was rewarding upon getting beyond it. I think if you want to progress, like in any game, then you should find a way to progress through the challenge presented. Hand the controller to someone else, the keyboard, mouse, get a program that allows you to hold down your mouse button continuously on the button, stretch your fingers prior, rip the keyboard out and bang it against your table, FIND A WAY, but I think it's unreasonable that every occurance of "difficulty" people come here to whine about it. First it was the solo instances and now it's the finale of an expansion.... It never ceases. You're kept from what you want so long as you limit yourself, and on another side note... I have someone who has no way to press buttons on her keyboard to the extent this thing presents right now..I didn't do it for her either. She found a way.

Back in the day people had issues you do now too. There's no difference of then or now except that people feel so self entitled to demand change on their whims/terms when it's not to their liking or it doesn't suit them. It's so easy to complain and demand everything else change than to find an alternative method, that is what this forum fills up with the most too.

I repeat, I empathize, I get, I understand, I REALLY DO... But there is always another way to progress somehow and asking to change the standard is getting dull. If I was deaf and there was a sound based mechanic required, I wouldn't ask the game to change for my disability, I would find another way to beat the mechanic. That's my own challenge but it's also a challenge in itself without a disability. I'm sorry but I'm sick of the amount of these threads that pop up every patch, so my sympathy is draining very quickly.

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Originally Posted by Valic

I mean we had those "press the DDR buttons" events for christmas and you saw how many people disliked that... My point isn't "you people with disabilities are being lazy" but I love how you guys shove words in my mouth. My point is, we found a way to keep going regardless instead of asking for accommodations to be made every instance we were stuck.


https://imgur.com/L9T3xHj

I would say it is. Can you handle 12 seconds of keeping the gauge up? You did? Good you earned to see what comes next. You didn't? Well, try again next time, you can do it.

It's really not that bad as people make it out to be. I think the punishment is just fine to the trial's severity.



He would call me out if I used one of those controllers that repeats the button when held down :^)

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You see, there are clear boundaries between laziness, overcoming, and impossibility in the physical plane, and in general this QTE really stands out sharply against the background of the battle with Shinryu, etc.
And you do not quite correctly express yourself, if you like trials, there are extremes, savages and extremes for you. But then they created a little hardcore to the casual part of the game.

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Originally Posted by Valic

But there is always another way to progress somehow .

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Exept, there isn't. Noone in their right mind gonna destroy their property (keyboards and gamepads are a property) for something like that. What else do we need to do, dance on our heads to simply finish the story trial.
And yet again you missed the point:

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Originally Posted by Hatfright

Noone says "handle us the story on a nice plate". People just said "stop putting in mechanics that are not fun and not doable for some at the same time in a damn easy difficulty fight".

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valic

I think if you want to progress, like in any game, then you should find a way to progress through the challenge presented.

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When you talk about a challenge, you are speaking from the perspective of a healthy person. It is very easy for you to speculate about the ways to accomplish this challenge without thinking about the actual physical pain. I wish you never find yourself in those circumstances where the steps up the stairs or opening a bottle of milk will become a serious challenge for you and you will be forced to "find a way to progress through the challenge presented".

You say people are complaining here. Yes, they, like all other users of this game, pay their money. And they have the right to express their point of view and ask whether you like it or not. If you are tired of such threads, do not participate in them. You still don't contribute anything useful.