Gath ponders on "Master" crafting.

I'm all for crafting specialization...

As long as Disciples of War/Magic also have to choose a single class to specialize in.

The vision pitched to me at launch was that crafting, gathering, and war classes would be treated as equals.

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Originally Posted by Vuen

I'm all for crafting specialization...

As long as Disciples of War/Magic also have to choose a single class to specialize in.

The vision pitched to me at launch was that crafting, gathering, and war classes would be treated as equals.

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Not only that but characters would be able to cap everything, especially considering the absurd pricing on additional characters. I think as long as crafts are classes, we shouldn't force people to be permanently locked into one or two.

I agree with Vuen as well.

I like being able to craft everything. I'm against this idea. I'm curious though how you can be ok with lvling all battle jobs to max but its bad for people who enjoy crafting to be able to level everything to max.

Why not have specialized battle jobs as well then, you can only take one to max. I get in groups with players who have 50s they never play. And when forced to, they are no good at them or dont even have gear to use. So beyond the paragon crown and achievement, why lvl it?

If my crafts are being taken from me then so should the ability to lvl all battle.

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

I like being able to craft everything. I'm against this idea. I'm curious though how you can be ok with lvling all battle jobs to max but its bad for people who enjoy crafting to be able to level everything to max.
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cuz the people suggesting it hate crafting, why else

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

cuz the people suggesting it hate crafting, why else

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Crafting is never fun. This is not about who hates what. This is about a specialization in crafting, which, earlier was already said to be planned.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Crafting is never fun. This is not about who hates what. This is about a specialization in crafting, which, earlier was already said to be planned.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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the word specialization ahs MANY meanings

the people who dont like crafting give it the one thatl hurt crafters the most

And good thing my name isnt your

So The Vedis's gil is worth more then Gaths gil

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Originally Posted by Gath

Crafting is never fun. This is not about who hates what. This is about a specialization in crafting, which, earlier was already said to be planned.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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This is your opinion. And many things were said to be planned but changed after community input. Unfortunately I think crafters are outnumbered though and you will get your way regardless.

The economy would not get drastically better with your idea, it is what it is. This only limits players who enjoy making things for themselves and friends.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

The Vedis thinks Gath doesnt remember that SE already talked about crafting specialization and is now trying to claim it as his own idea.

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Please elaborate on that? I don't remember seeing SE talk about that.

I kind of like the idea of letting people level all crafts as much as they want to, but limit them to specializing in two crafts that would work sort of along the lines of the way the job system works. For example carpenter + armorer = boatmaker, or blacksmith + armorer = airship maker. Once you choose your craft specialization you gain access to recipes that only specialists in those crafts can use as well as the ability to combine your specialized crafts into a job that can make things that only that job can make. Specilization could involve a a quest path that once started basically locks you into that craft as a specialty, and locks out other crafts specialization quests.

I don't like the idea of it being just one craft though. Some crafts mesh so well together like cloth and leather that its would suck not to be able to specialize in both of them on one toon.

I sort of don't like the idea that everyone everywhere could max out crafting at which point no one has much of a reason to buy goods from the wards. That said it won't happen because a lot of people truly detest crafting, and won't ever get a craft past 20. Even with the ability to get all crafts to cap I'd bet only around 25% of people level a craft to cap, and far less than that level all of them to cap. I'm basing this on searches made since the search feature was introduced, but that of course doesn't let me count who has a craft capped, but isn't on it when I search. On the lodestone 550+ people on Mysidia have leveled goldsmithing at one point, but I don't know how many characters there are total on Mysidia or how many have goldsmithing at 50.

As Gath suggested specialization would be a good way to make players depend on other players in the market to ply their trade.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

Please elaborate on that? I don't remember seeing SE talk about that.

I kind of like the idea of letting people level all crafts as much as they want to, but limit them to specializing in two crafts that would work sort of along the lines of the way the job system works. For example carpenter + armorer = boatmaker, or blacksmith + armorer = airship maker. Once you choose your craft specialization you gain access to recipes that only specialists in those crafts can use as well as the ability to combine your specialized crafts into a job that can make things that only that job can make. Specilization could involve a a quest path that once started basically locks you into that craft as a specialty, and locks out other crafts specialization quests.

I don't like the idea of it being just one craft though. Some crafts mesh so well together like cloth and leather that its would suck not to be able to specialize in both of them on one toon.

I sort of don't like the idea that everyone everywhere could max out crafting at which point no one has much of a reason to buy goods from the wards. That said it won't happen because a lot of people truly detest crafting, and won't ever get a craft past 20. Even with the ability to get all crafts to cap I'd bet only around 25% of people level a craft to cap, and far less than that level all of them to cap. I'm basing this on searches made since the search feature was introduced, but that of course doesn't let me count who has a craft capped, but isn't on it when I search. On the lodestone 550+ people on Mysidia have leveled goldsmithing at one point, but I don't know how many characters there are total on Mysidia or how many have goldsmithing at 50.

As Gath suggested specialization would be a good way to make players depend on other players in the market to ply their trade.

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they mentioned they were going to do something along the lines of specialization months ago

HOWEVER

the way this game is set up, i can say with 110% certainty that it means we WILL NOT be restricted to choosing which class we do

what it does probly mean is we will be forced to choose which branch of each craft we want to do (such as goldsmith needing to choose between jewelry and weapons) so that we can only really touch on 1 branch, while still being able to fully level every class in the game without restriction on it



they never released any real details on this, there was a massive thread about it over half a year ago, and as i said, gath is just reposting old stuff claiming he invented it

Gath never claimed this to be his, Gath claimed it as an ideal that worked well with FFXI. Gath never once said "This is Gath's idea and it should be implemented." Gath actually said that it's an idea to create uniqueness, and having a specilization in each craft is actually a good idea. You apparently don't read what Gath has to say.

Still, Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

they mentioned they were going to do something along the lines of specialization months ago

HOWEVER

the way this game is set up, i can say with 110% certainty that it means we WILL NOT be restricted to choosing which class we do

what it does probly mean is we will be forced to choose which branch of each craft we want to do (such as goldsmith needing to choose between jewelry and weapons) so that we can only really touch on 1 branch, while still being able to fully level every class in the game without restriction on it



they never released any real details on this, there was a massive thread about it over half a year ago, and as i said, gath is just reposting old stuff claiming he invented it

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Actually if I remember correctly it was in one of Reinheart's translations and it was first mistranslated as them saying they were going to. After it was properly translated it was actually them being asked if they were going to do it. Could be thinking of a different instance though.

At any rate, while I would prefer they did not put any mastery on crafting classes, if they must I certainly hope they give us SOME way to switch at a cost.

Edit: I'm just thinking along the lines of LS self-sufficiency. If an LS loses a master blacksmith for example, they're screwed if they don't have another and if no one else can switch over.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Actually if I remember correctly it was in one of Reinheart's translations and it was first mistranslated as them saying they were going to. After it was properly translated it was actually them being asked if they were going to do it. Could be thinking of a different instance though.

At any rate, while I would prefer they did not put any mastery on crafting classes, if they must I certainly hope they give us SOME way to switch at a cost.

Edit: I'm just thinking along the lines of LS self-sufficiency. If an LS loses a master blacksmith for example, they're screwed if they don't have another and if no one else can switch over.

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Switching over would be good to have, Gath doesn't disagree, but, when you switch, it shouldn't be so freely as you wish, because you might as well break those boundaries down because it would be the same as it is now but a little more of a hassle.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Switching over would be good to have, Gath doesn't disagree, but, when you switch, it shouldn't be so freely as you wish, because you might as well break those boundaries down because it would be the same as it is now but a little more of a hassle.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Well make it a quest line or a cost or some rare item drop, something like that. Make it difficult enough that it would dissuade you from switching back and forth constantly. But again that is only if they MUST implement it. I would rather they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Well make it a quest line or a cost or some rare item drop, something like that. Make it difficult enough that it would dissuade you from switching back and forth constantly. But again that is only if they MUST implement it. I would rather they didn't.

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They will need to implement some system that keeps crafting from being completely devalued as more and more people cap out all their jobs. Materia serves as a component of this by removing items from the game through conversion to materia, and thus requiring more of that item to be generated. Still the market will get very weak if everyone on a server can make any item they need for themselves.

I think in one of Yoshida's musings he said they were considering that gladiator becomes paladin, and from paladin you can get to dark knight but if you do dark knight then you can't ever go back to being a paladin. What The Vedis posted about specialization would seem in sync with this potential vision for the game. Allowing branches to a craft that once taken become your trade specialty would potentially be a good thing.

If they did this it would also add an element of risk to the choice you make. Do I want to make jewelry? or do I want to decorate weapons with gems and engraving? It seems like the first option would make you good steady gil, but the second option might create very specialized weapons that sell for more but don't sell as fast. The second option could make you super rich, but it's more of a gamble as a long term source of income.

I hope they do something along those lines. I'd really like to hear from the devs on their long term vision for jobs. We know a lot about the world concept in 2.0, but not that much about the future of the jobs system.

Yeah and when that bit about Paladin/Dark Knight becoming exclusive was posted, there was major backlash from the community even if it was only a thought. I don't think they'll go through with that, not many are happy to hear it.

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Originally Posted by weeble

they said a long time ago that this is what se wants to do, i think it's a horrible idea. the only thing it changes ...just like all things they try to fix threw blockades and speedbumps is ...rmt will still have the ability to have all crafts. they will work together unlike others ...like in ffxi. there prices will be cheap, while ours will break even cause need to buy every part of the recipie other then the one or 2 in it that your craft actually makes. take arrows as an example ...having to buy multiple items from other crafts later rather then making them yourself? but again rmt will just have every craft available to them. also people with money ...just like there broken anima system can buy multiple accounts and ...problem fixed. a system that is bypassed with cash is a wrong system to begin with.

and ...on top of that like others said. we pay for 1 account only....they don't give us free toons like other mmo's where u can just jump on new toon and have every craft ....1 account we should be able to do everything ...all craft all gathering all mele classes without gimping your magic classes or vise versa.

also the problem isn't that a few people decided to level all there crafts to max, the problem is server population. in ffxi you could make just about anything from rank 1-max and they would sell out over nite. yes most items not make u gils but they sold. low levels only hq made u gils ...other then that a lose. i could put a mule out over nite with 30items, 4 X7items with mules in auction ...and day after all of it is sold.... this is the problem....server population. people wanting the items is a problem cause of power leveling. it's the way this game is that is problem. wait for them to fix this first then we can say it is cause a very small amount of players with lots of time on there hands are the problem.

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I agree this this statement. I want to be able to do everything, even if it takes me a long time. Thats one of the draws of FF14. If I cannot then I should be able to have more characters so that I can have some specialize in some things while others specialize in something else.

I support this idea, getting all battle classes to 50 helps the economy(demand), getting all crafting classes to 50 ruins the economy (supply is too high prices are then low), while I don't agree with only 1, I'd like to see us be able to do 2-3 master, with the rest non master, and maybe it has nothing to do with leveling. They are changing the crafting system up to be 2 buttons (I think that must make it both easier to bot and more boring but w/e they're game right), with that we won't know how "easy" or "accessible" crafting will be, but it sounds like the same everyone can have a max craft spam enter to 50 kind of deal again.

this game needs to implement serious economics, supply and demand, and risk and reward would be nice (2nd one is half econ but you catch my drift)

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I support this idea, getting all battle classes to 50 helps the economy(demand), getting all crafting classes to 50 ruins the economy (supply is too high prices are then low), while I don't agree with only 1, I'd like to see us be able to do 2-3 master, with the rest non master, and maybe it has nothing to do with leveling. They are changing the crafting system up to be 2 buttons (I think that must make it both easier to bot and more boring but w/e they're game right), with that we won't know how "easy" or "accessible" crafting will be, but it sounds like the same everyone can have a max craft spam enter to 50 kind of deal again.

this game needs to implement serious economics, supply and demand, and risk and reward would be nice (2nd one is half econ but you catch my drift)

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no having people at max doesn't hurt the economy anymore than people having all battle to 50. the difference is in this game 50 is only half of the eventual max. as the cap and the leveling curve goes up along with enough content to hold someone that plays over 1 hour every over week less people will craft. people craft because there is absolutely nothing to do in game at this point in time.

once they start releasing a decent amount of content there will be less people crafting beyond the 50 cap.

SE already did the same thing in FFXI. You could level every craft to 60 but you could only take 1 to 100.

I think it is fine how it is. I don't like much being restricted :(

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Originally Posted by Zumi

SE already did the same thing in FFXI. You could level every craft to 60 but you could only take 1 to 100.

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yes, they did, but that game was based and promoted as such. this game was made and promoted as being able to do anything on a single character if you are willing to put the time in to do so.

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Originally Posted by Tricksy

I agree this this statement. I want to be able to do everything, even if it takes me a long time. Thats one of the draws of FF14. If I cannot then I should be able to have more characters so that I can have some specialize in some things while others specialize in something else.

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When the game was initially designed the idea was you can level all jobs, but attribute point allotment was done once for all classes. You could allot your points evenly and be a generalist, or max the stats needed for 1 class and specialize in that class. The idea itself was good, but the execution of that idea was problematic. Maxing out miner would make you a bad mage, and that was sort of dumb.

Now each job gets its own points so there is no real specialization, and in the long run this will make the game /meh. Once everyone has the same gear/materia no one shines. Ultimately SE will have to address this through other aspects of the game or it won't be very fun because shining in MMOs is the most fun you can have playing one.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

When the game was initially designed the idea was you can level all jobs, but attribute point allotment was done once for all classes. You could allot your points evenly and be a generalist, or max the stats needed for 1 class and specialize in that class. The idea itself was good, but the execution of that idea was problematic. Maxing out miner would make you a bad mage, and that was sort of dumb.

Now each job gets its own points so there is no real specialization, and in the long run this will make the game /meh. Once everyone has the same gear/materia no one shines. Ultimately SE will have to address this through other aspects of the game or it won't be very fun because shining in MMOs is the most fun you can have playing one.

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All your opinions of what fun is. I would have more fun in this game, and more to work towards, if my choice in crafting class isn't restricted past a certain point. I would much prefer being able to do everything on a single character, especially when additional characters are $3 per month each.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

All your opinions of what fun is. I would have more fun in this game, and more to work towards, if my choice in crafting class isn't restricted past a certain point. I would much prefer being able to do everything on a single character, especially when additional characters are $3 per month each.

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at times i wonder if people forget this aspect of a game. it is a game and a game is meant to be fun. if anyone can state a reason me taking the time to level each crafting class ruins their fun or how limiting how many classes i can level would increase my fun then they may have a point. their opinion is that is should be done this way just because it has been done that way before and not how doing things that way in a game will make things more fun.

It doesn't have much to do with fun as it does with making a working economy. But like I mentioned prior, there are other ways to limit items coming into the game that doesn't take specializing.

I kinda agree with Gath for once... I agree that not being able to have every craft at max would kinda suck but having everyone with every craft at max sucks more. Perhaps we can get the best of both worlds. Lets take a lesson from how they're doing jobs. Perhaps the "master job" would allow us to make weapons and armor but if we didn't have it we couldn't. We could still level it to max but it would be harder to do and not as rewarding. We could even have it so we can do a quest to change our "master craft". The quest could even be a nice gil sink for SE. This also would allow us to repair and meld items that are above 50 with our "sub crafts"

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Originally Posted by Madruk

It doesn't have much to do with fun as it does with making a working economy. But like I mentioned prior, there are other ways to limit items coming into the game that doesn't take specializing.

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if you want to go towards a working economy instead of what we have now the first thing that needs to happen is not having every new piece of gear and every viable weapon in the game(minus mages) coming as drops. you want an economy to come back in a top heavy game then you need to bring out more crafted items that are used for situational gear. the problem is only a very small amount of gear is even worth making because of how top heavy the servers are with all classes capped.

you introduce more nm's like we had with the buffalo and dodore that drops materials for good gear to be made out of it and more different types of items that are used in situational fights then you revive the economy. the reason the economy is dead is not because of too many crafters at capped. the problem is most people are already capped on the classes they want to be and have the gear they want for it.

you could also add mobs that drop a piece of rare materials that you can take and upgrade a piece of unique gear to a nicer piece of unique gear. say that old piece of gear that is now worthless upgrades to another body piece if you add a piece from a new nm that is put in place and the new one is an upgrade for body that is good for a situational fight. it makes multiple pieces of content that was worthless viable again and puts new items into the wards that are sought after.

why is selling low level weapons dead?
people go from 1-30 in a very short time so they have no need to upgrade their gear. there is also such a low amount of people coming into the game that there is no demand for that gear.

why is selling mid level weapons dead?
the best weapons for mid levels are premade drops off the mini nm's so why would anyone pay even 10k for a weapon that is lower quality than one they can get for free from a mob. those weapons cannot attach materia because they are u/u so once someone gets 1 there is no chance to blow it up and need another.

why is selling high level weapons dead?
between the weapons that are dropped from ifrit, moogle, and coffers there is only a very small percentage of crafted gear that even has a need to be made. outside of the wand of tides and the lightning brand there is no other weapon that is even comparable to the ifrti weapons.

why is selling low level gear dead?
once again the speed of leveling people are past these before they are even ready to upgrade.

why is selling mid level gear dead?
once again it goes to people can get better gear from drops off the mini nm's than they can crafted gear. if someone can get something for free why would they buy anything?

why is selling high level gear dead?
this is the only thing that people are able to make and sell. the problem is the prices for the materials add up to a point where you are lucky to break even selling the gear much less make a profit at all.

no matter if they limit crafters from going beyond 50 or not the economy is still stuck at that point because of the same reasons. no matter if there's 50 crafters that can make an item or 5000 it doesn't matter. if the items don't sell then the situation doesn't change.

Yaaa, having max crafters is OP. Gaths gil would be even more >.>

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Yaaa, having max crafters is OP. Gaths gil would be even more >.>

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Gath's gil is ever increasing.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yes, they did, but that game was based and promoted as such. this game was made and promoted as being able to do anything on a single character if you are willing to put the time in to do so.

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The game as it was originally promoted was rejected and is being redesigned by a team with their own creative vision. Everything we liked about 1.0 won't make it to 2.0 and that's just the way of it. The system in question was also designed to use physical levels and common stat distribution amongst all the classes and disciplines. They also had surplus and fatigue and now all of that is gone and in some cases was replaced by new systems that do similar things in a different way.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

All your opinions of what fun is. I would have more fun in this game, and more to work towards, if my choice in crafting class isn't restricted past a certain point. I would much prefer being able to do everything on a single character, especially when additional characters are $3 per month each.

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Specialization doesn't mean you can't level all crafts to cap. Its more like making a career choice once you have developed basic job skills. As to my point about fun I know 100% of the people don't agree with me, and I never expected them to. Given the feedback I have seen on the forums I can say one of the loudest complaints I have seen echoed over the past year is the grindfest with nothing to do at the end. Some people like grinding and leveling so much they have more than one toon, but I'll wager that a majority of people would rather be known as the best tank, or dd, or magic dd, or goldsmith, etc on the server than 1 of 10000 people with all jobs at cap. Exping isn't the end of fun in MMOs its the beginning of it. If Yoshida didn't think that he wouldn't be so gung ho on making leveling easy, so people can get cap and do stuff with their friends.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

The game as it was originally promoted was rejected and is being redesigned by a team with their own creative vision. Everything we liked about 1.0 won't make it to 2.0 and that's just the way of it. The system in question was also designed to use physical levels and common stat distribution amongst all the classes and disciplines. They also had surplus and fatigue and now all of that is gone and in some cases was replaced by new systems that do similar things in a different way.

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the point is that you cannot use xi had something as an excuse. xi had less that 1/20th(or 5% whichever you choose) of the player base that wow has so should we remove everything that is anything like xi and make a wow clone?

xi had something, yes, that is true. xi also advertised having them. i'm not saying that it was right or wrong to have it in xi. what i am saying is that this game was meant to be different from xi. i actually purchased this game because i pure hated xi.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

Specialization doesn't mean you can't level all crafts to cap. Its more like making a career choice once you have developed basic job skills.

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as far as you stating that people couldn't raise levels above 50 on their crafts specialization that is exactly what the original op is about.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Say you have someone with every craft at 50 and they are pushed to choose ONE craft to take beyond 50, but once they hit 51 they cannot go back and cannot take any of the other crafts past 50. However, when they choose the craft to go beyond 50 it changes into a Master Craft...like CUL would change into Sous Chef or Master Chef.

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this is taken directly from the original op. it directly states not taking more than 1 craft above 50. this is what i have been arguing against. i understand some people have stated the making either weapons or armor once you branch off, but the thread itself is about only leveling one class past cap.

Darkstarpoet1 summed up my beliefs on where most of the games economic troubles lie. Sadly there is not much reason to maintain proper level equipment, let alone the drive to strive for top end gear for most of the game. It is so fast to reach cap that we are all left shoulder to shoulder looking down the same narrow corridor of content.
While specialization is a fine way to help our characters regain some uniqueness it will not alleviate the problems brought on the economy by the speed of our leveling system.
The process of leveling to gain access to later content is often referred to as a grindfest, but should it still be labeled as such if the time spent exping was as interesting and fun as the content you were trying to reach? I've gone on roadtrips where I had more fun in the car with friends than when I got to our destination. My hopes are that with v2.0 SE adjusts even the mundane combat that leveling parties experience to have the same fun factor as endgame content.

I absolutely hate this idea. Hated it in FFXI, and will hate it even more here now that the various skills are "classes". Assuming there actually is a problem to be solved here (and I'm not sure there actually is), I'm sure there are better ways to solve it.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

the point is that you cannot use xi had something as an excuse. xi had less that 1/20th(or 5% whichever you choose) of the player base that wow has so should we remove everything that is anything like xi and make a wow clone?

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Never played WoW, so I wouldn't even imply that XIV should be a WoW clone.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

xi had something, yes, that is true. xi also advertised having them. i'm not saying that it was right or wrong to have it in xi. what i am saying is that this game was meant to be different from xi. i actually purchased this game because i pure hated xi.

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To my recolection this game started out intending to be XI-2 with everything that didn't work in XI fixed. Once they realized how much work it would be they decided 'lets make an entirely new game.' A lot of what I saw in this game at launch was clearly intended as an improvement over the XI model. My point is that that original vision for 1.0 XIV has been superseded. If they said this game will have feature X in September of 2010 there is no guarantee that 2.0 will have feature X when it launches in October of 2012 unless the devs have since said that 2.0 will in fact contain feature X. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your intention in the post I quoted, but it sounded like you were saying if they advertised it in the 1.0 launch it has to be in the 2.0 launch.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

this is taken directly from the original op. it directly states not taking more than 1 craft above 50. this is what i have been arguing against. i understand some people have stated the making either weapons or armor once you branch off, but the thread itself is about only leveling one class past cap.

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But not every response in favor has 100% agreed with the OP, and if I am not mistaken even the OP has said he is ok with other forms of specialization than a cap. In point of fact I myself said I would prefer that if they were to impose a restriction I wouldn't want it to be 1 craft to final cap, and later indicated that I preferred what The Vedis put forth as a concept than what the OP put forward. Not everyone will want either idea. I do think crafting jobs will be too vanilla without some form of specialization, and in the long run if everyone can make everything, only gathering/farming will make any gil. That's one FFXI facet that I don't want to see haunting this game. Farm 8 hours a day for 5 years to upgrade my house, no thanks!

Hmm, I would like to specialize in more then 1 craft however, perhaps 2 might be better?
Even then there could be branches of the specialization for example GSM could have a gem cutting specialty allowing them to cut stones in various shapes and this would alter the final crafted item in question (cosmetically as well).

eg. Round brilliant cut Ruby + silver nugget = RBC Ruby earring
Emerald cut Ruby + silver nugget = Emerald cut Ruby earring

Or in the case of food a master chef could craft with an extra ingredient to make a spiced apple pie rather then apple pie, consumable level and stat bonus would be higher.

This is a bit of a difficult topic. If we're allowed to level all of our battle and magic classes to cap, why, theoretically, can we not level all of our crafts to cap if the crafting portion of the game is supposed to be on par with the battle classes so to speak.

I completely understand the problem of every player potentially being able to craft every item, and think it may very well need to be addressed. I don't think limiting the level progression of crafts is the right avenue, though. The idea of "specialization" where you would pick one of your crafts and gain some sort of add-on abilities to make it surpass your others might be nice.

I also think, though, that re-working crafting to have recipes that are not automatically known on level up and instead must be learned from npcs, quests, or even boss or dungeon drops can help separate crafters from one another. Not every 50 Alchemist would be a carbon copy of one another at this point, and would require more in-depth dedication to one's craft.

restricting crafting like in xi is just an se money grab so people have to make crafting mules
it has nothing to do with enhancing the gameplay

Sorry, but any post attepting to convince me that it is in my or the communities benefit to limit my access to max level of any class, be it DoL, DoH, DoM, DoW, will fall on deaf ears. It appears to me that this idea is suggesed in the interest of utilizing ideas from other games of a different dynamics players enjoyed, and try to force it into the dynamics of FFXIV. As stated before, the advertised alure of this game is flexability of the players options. The maxing out of any class or job of any kind, should only be limited by my effort I invest in that class. Not because some one else wants to push an idea onto me from another game, of another dynamic, that they "believe" will benefit me or the community.

This idea, although having good intentions, is yet another example of players trying to take the square pegs from other games and attempt to pound them into FFXIV's round holes.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Sorry, but any post attepting to convince me that it is in my or the communities benefit to limit my access to max level of any class, be it DoL, DoH, DoM, DoW, will fall on deaf ears. It appears to me that this idea is suggesed in the interest of utilizing ideas from other games of a different dynamics players enjoyed, and try to force it into the dynamics of FFXIV. As stated before, the advertised alure of this game is flexability of the players options. The maxing out of any class or job of any kind, should only be limited by my effort I invest in that class. Not because some one else wants to push an idea onto me from another game, of another dynamic, that they "believe" will benefit me or the community.

This idea, although having good intentions, is yet another example of players trying to take the square pegs from other games and attempt to pound them into FFXIV's round holes.

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Then help us round those corners off so it fits in the holes.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

Gath your OP is directly opposed to the eloquent dominant belief that "I am allowed to hold multiple jobs/classes and therefore I should and must level everything to cap because I use everything all the time, there is no alternative." Unfortunately, because of this I foresee "problem of great justice!~", or as it is known in academic circles "butt-hurt" from many in the community about going down this road.

Personally, I think it's a great and necessary idea almost exactly as you've construed it. The subtle differences/modifications are unimportant and SE's job to figure out.