Clearly, I have not elaborated on my initial posting as well as I could have. Maybe I should've taken a bit more time to actually post my actual opinion, rather than reposting a comment and letting it go on - some may have the general idea that I am saying this. Which I am not. But it is what it is. I'll probably back off from this discussion - apologies everyone. I should've worded my original posting much better than what I have.
DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier
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05-30-2018, 03:18 PMKaivaC
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05-30-2018, 03:24 PMBourne_EndeavorThe other night, I did a Tsuki "farm" where the Samurai called out the Bard and I for "sucking" despite said Bard doing almost 2k more DPS. The Dragoon was in worse; netting a whopping 2,500 DPS in i350+ gear. Who did he put Dragon Sight on? The Samurai who couldn't out DPS a Bard or Ninja. Who was riding the enmity table the whole fight amongst DPS? The Samurai. You mean to tell me you could discern all this without a parse?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
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05-30-2018, 03:30 PMDualgunnerOh no, I'm deadly serious. DPS have so many forms of aggro manipulation and dampening that using the aggro meter to tell how well DPS are doing is a act of futility. Even if we take those away, the aggro meter is a relative measure; you only see people's aggro versus the person who has the highest aggro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
Also did you read their post, which I mimicked? Maybe you picked up a different tone than I did but "Wow...you seriously don't know how?", "Yeah..I'm just gonna sit back and watch you figure that one out." and "EDIT: OK ill give you a hint. Tanks rely on this very heavily.....at least they should." absolutely bloody reek of smugness.
You still only have a measure of how well they're doing against each other and yourself, not a measure of how well they're doing. Let's say you have a tank who spams RoH combo in shield all day and both DPS are so low on the aggro list that there's hardly a pixel difference between them, how do you tell then?Quote:
To be honest, I even kind of agree. It's very easy to spot the difference between weak links among DPS and a good DPS who uses their enmity dump.
You don't really even need an aggro meter to see if somebody is being well and truly garbage; ie, not keeping buffs up, dots up, etc. You'll notice, however, the point of contention here is using the aggro meter specifically, when there are so many things that manipulate it. I did not respond to this post I responded to this post.Quote:
You don't really need a parser to tell you if someone is doing "garbage" level damage.
It's an inaccurate tool that only gives relative readings, period. It's possible to have the highest dps also have the lowest aggro, and vice versa, especially because as skill goes up you'll also notice people use more of their toolkits. Because of this, you could be assuming that RDM at the bottom of the aggro list is doing the lowest DPS when actually the SAM is; because the tool you're sticking to is that inaccurate.Quote:
No, you can't spot who might be lagging a bit or more subtle differences, but when a boss is taking a while to kill or something seems off, it doesn't exactly take a discerning eye to spot who's bringing the group down, which I'm inclined to believe is what the other poster meant.
Please, PLEASE quote where I said that.Quote:
But if your working definition of "garbage" is 4 - 5k in a Savage setting, then yes, it won't be so easy to see.
Quote:
It all depends on what your standard is, and there's not much else to it. That won't stop the meaningless point scoring, though.
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05-30-2018, 03:48 PMSotaris
I would say it depends much on what fight we're talking about. For example OS6 as caster i do 4-4.5k dps as BLM due to moving around.
While i most likely can do better (just cleared the fight so not 100% where i can stand longer period of time to go ham on F4s). -
05-30-2018, 04:18 PMLunaxiaI'd need to see it myself, but the DRG would probably be noticeable (more or less the level I was referring to), as would that the SAM's claims were wrong. As for him, if he was just mediocre and you both performed at a high level/ with enmity dumps, that would be more difficult to see, but you didn't mention numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
If you're observant, you can notice when enmity tools/ stances are being employed and affecting the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
And I did. I didn't find it nearly as grating at some other posts I've seen.
I assumed the discussion pertained to 8 man trials, but even in dungeons, it's still easy to see large discrepancies in DPS. If they really are garbage, they'll still sit at 4 even with enmity dumps in my experience, so it's not exactly wrong. As for the "point of contention", to me it just looks like more posturing over semantics. Someone with what I would call garbage playing would sit at the bottom of the enmity table regardless of aggro tools (or rise very, very briefly), and in that respect I'd agree it can be used as a vague indicator (though I'd also take cues from their gear and how they play.) Mere under-performing would be harder to detect, and isn't what I'm referring to.Quote:
boop
You didn't, I wasn't referring to you specifically in that comment. Calm down.Quote:
Please, PLEASE quote where I said that.
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05-30-2018, 04:26 PMF_Maximillian
If someone is in current gear and they're giving a genuine effort and fall into the 4k range they aren't garbage but they have quite alot of work to do. It's when you have people who are in current gear who are being regularly outdamaged by tanks and healers as dps or tanks/healers who are in/near the triple digits that it starts to be one of those "this guy really sucks" situations (obviously deaths/mechanics/having to pick up for party members slack will effect this). Effort shows and there's no real way to do as low as 4k in current gear as a dps if you're actually putting effort in unless you need to learn your rotation better or learn to increase your uptime.
On a bit of a tangent though, if this is related to a run or two that you've had one thing I can say is that you don't really give yourself enough time to dig into the intricacies of the class you're trying to play with all the class hopping you do. One thing (and I believe there was a thread of yours I replied to way back when asking for input) that I've noticed in the few times I've seen your logs is that you need to work on your uptime. Greed is not a bad thing so long as you aren't messing up the group but it takes causing wipes sometimes to see what you can get away with and get comfortable with taking more risks. The important thing is to play with people who are understanding and/or are also trying to push themselves to improve and it won't be a problem. Uptime and CPM are honestly the two biggest factors (though they're really one factor combined) in people doing below average damage, that and a shoddy rotation that needs some adjusting. -
05-30-2018, 04:29 PMGin_GrayAll this says is I feel sorry for the tanks you meet because your not using enmity tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
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05-30-2018, 04:32 PMDualgunnerI'll buy you can watch when diversion (at the start of the fight), tactician, refresh, and shirk happen. With the same effort you'd be looking at someone's diversion, smokescreen, or shadewalker mid-fight though, you could also see buffs and dots on the boss, which are a far better indicator of non-parse damage gauging. The aggro table is still inaccurate to to the point of being blatantly wrong in a lot of scenarios.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
Yet you found my post, which was a mimic of theirs, grating. Alrighty, you and I will have to agree to disagree here.Quote:
And I did. I didn't find it nearly as grating at some other posts I've seen.
https://i.imgur.com/GheT1x1.jpgQuote:
I assumed the discussion pertained to 8 man trials, but even in dungeons, it's still easy to see large discrepancies in DPS. If they really are garbage, they'll still sit at 4 even with enmity dumps in my experience, so it's not exactly wrong.
Oh and let's not forget, it's all still relative. If the whole party is hot garbage, then the aggro meter isn't going to be a very good measure of that. If all four dps are bad, or both dps are bad, or all 18 dps are bad, the aggro meter won't measure that at all.
Sounds to me like your definition of "garbage" is "almost literally dead at their chair."Quote:
As for the "point of contention", to me it just looks like more posturing over semantics. Someone with what I would call garbage playing would sit at the bottom of the enmity table regardless of aggro tools (or rise very, very briefly), and in that respect I'd agree it can be used as a vague indicator (though I'd also take cues from their gear and how they play.) Mere under-performing would be harder to detect, and isn't what I'm referring to.
Diversion is 90% aggro mitigation over 30 seconds. Tactician, Refresh, and Lucid drop aggro by half. Shadewalker diverts 80% of aggro to the tank, and smokescreen is 80% aggro mitigation based on a quick link I found, possibly outdated.
You would need to be doing so so terribly less than a dps using proper aggro mitigation and manipulation that you might as well not even exist at that point.
Ahh, you used the general "you". See that's confusing when you've been using the second person to respond to somebody, and make no kind of mention that you're shifting to the general "you".Quote:
You didn't, I wasn't referring to you specifically in that comment. Calm down.
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05-30-2018, 04:33 PMDaulBan
4k is about what tanks are shooting for in most fights. Being at around 4k as a DPS means that there's some integral issue with how you're playing the job. Whether that means you're garbage or not depends on your opinion of the person in question. If someone is mouthy, gets themselves killed a lot, complains about other people's mistakes, etc. etc. I'd say that they kinda suck, or might not be worth having in the party. It's the sort of thing where if you're better off having another random person in PF or DF than that person the 'garbage' title might be appropriate, but I'd never say it to the person's face.
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05-30-2018, 04:42 PMBourne_EndeavorMy own numbers were 5,000+ until a death occurred. As I was on Ninja though, I'm curious how you would be able to notice since I Shadewalker the tank, Smokescreen the Bard and use Diversion myself—something the Dragoon didn't. Granted, his damage was awful enough it wouldn't have made as much of an impact but all those aggro tricks will make me low on the enmity list despite being second in DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
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05-30-2018, 04:46 PMLunaxiaScenarios I'm not talking about, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
Again, I did not refer to you.Quote:
Yet you found my post, which was a mimic of theirs, grating. Alrighty, you and I will have to agree to disagree here.
Unfortunately there aren't fflogs for Kugane Castle, so you'll have to pardon me and use an ounce of common sense there. If you believe otherwise, I envy you the parties you've been in.Quote:
snip
My definition of garbage is garbage, yes. Shocking, isn't it? If we're talking high DPS vs bad DPS, the gap caused by the enmity reducer is soon covered, especially in the case of a 10 minute or so long fight.
You don't have anything to apologise for, ye gods.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
I would have noted the enmity tools you used. Decent NIN make good use of the aggro abilities at their disposal, so I wouldn't have assumed you to be the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
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05-30-2018, 04:51 PMRiyahArp
I don't think you should call people garbage. You know, this is a game and sometimes people aren't as good as games as you would like. In the old days, people wanted people to try endgame and would create guilds centering around it, so that you could do it with others and learn. These days it seems like people just hate endgame and throw words like carry or garbage around, and view people as impediments or burdens if things go bad. I really don't like this trend.
Like in EVE Online, people make things like EVE university to teach and introduce you to pvp, and no one says "oh you are garbage because you are only good enough to run a tackle frigate." They have their own issues, but I don't know many other games I've played where players are viewed so negatively. -
05-30-2018, 04:57 PMKaivaCConsidering the number of people (that number is definitely growing...slowly...but still growing) seem to think that I'm personally calling them garbage, even after I have already said this is not my own opinion....clearly, what I'm writing is misunderstood, and that is 100% on me because I now have people thinking that I'm calling them garbage myself. It is what it is at this point - won't be around too much longer, so I really have nothing further to add to this discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
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05-30-2018, 05:02 PMTristann
Looking at the top god kefka raid parses, DPS parse around 6k-6.8k at the absolute top level. Ignore padded runs, these are not meaningful anyway.
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05-30-2018, 05:02 PMLunaxiaYou asked for opinions on a general statement, and for the most part, that's what you got. You needn't take responsibility for what some people choose to see, you'll just drive yourself mad on these forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
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05-30-2018, 05:05 PMHoodRathttps://www.fflogs.com/rankings/14#boss=4511Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
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05-30-2018, 05:08 PMHamadaEnmity can only give a ruff idea what is going on, but it is not a good indicator on DPS. Trying to "out" someone solely on that is a bad idea. You have to watch buffs, abilities used, you really need to know the job. (for the people saying it is completely useless because of diversion, etc, yo can see that buff icon in the party list, so it doesn't take much thought to include that factor as you look what is going on. Do not forget, if a DPS is not using AOE, they will have non-existent enmity on the other monsters) Even then it is not like you know someone is doing 4k dps or 5k dps in expert. However, you can get a general idea how low or high a group dps is, if you know the run good enough and seen fast dps, slow dps, so on, you know the timing of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
Enmity is only one piece of the puzzle, do not draw conclusions solely off it. Also it does get confusing what is being referenced, sure i355 4k dps in a full 8 man may be " garbage tier" but what about that 320-350 dps in expert? I mean it is one thing to gauge people's dps without a parser in a 4 man and another to try do so in an 8 man -
05-30-2018, 05:08 PMLunaxiaWell, I meant more dungeons in general, and the fact I had no saved examples to offer, but you learn something new everyday.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoodRat
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05-30-2018, 05:09 PMKaivaCIt is totally my responsibility because I didn't elaborate enough on my original topic. It is the responsibility of the topic creator of they piss off a whole bunch of people on a subject when it wasn't their intent. It is their responsibility when they misspeak and do not correct it immediately. It is their responsibility if they are negatively affecting the OF community. It's not the opinions that's bothering me, it's the fact that it does seem like it was my opinion. But like I said, it is what it is. I'll be the elitist asshole. That's fine. I can live with that, because I'm the one that made the thread without thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
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05-30-2018, 05:09 PMRokkuEkkusu
With all of this arguing about DPS numbers/parsers, I wish we had more Ifrit, Ramuh, and Leviathan EXs to punish too much DPS. Heck, I'll add the Haukke Manor Hard Mode's Halicarnassus fight to the mix.
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05-30-2018, 05:14 PMHoodRatI believe they fall more into the category of poorly coded fights instead of punishment for too much damage. The latter doesn't really even make sense tbh. "How dare our players be too good?"Quote:
Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu
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05-30-2018, 05:17 PMLunaxiaThere were also people who understood what you meant perfectly, but far be it from me to deny anyone self-flagellation. I think your perception of this is a bit extreme, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
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05-30-2018, 05:17 PMDualgunnerThere's your problem right there, you just don't want to talk about the parts of the conversation where you're wrong. They don't go away just because you're "not talking about them."Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
Of every possible person to pick to respond to, because I'm certainly one of many you could have chosen to quote and talk about using aggro as a measure of DPS, you picked me. You specifically picked me, to respond to me mimicking somebody for being condescending and full of themselves, to tell me specifically you thought they were not the condescending one.Quote:
Again, I did not refer to you.
So yes. You were very much referring to me here.
EDIT: Relevant
The post I responded to.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
My post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
You responding, saying you see "condescending smugness" and it's not Neph; the implication is I'm the smug one, which I am, because I'm mimicking the tone of their post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
My original response to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
The implication here, for the audience who may be reading this, is that my post was one of those posts you found grating. In fact, of all the posts you supposedly found grating, you responded to mine, so mine either grated you especially hard or was the straw that broke the camel's back, either way the implication is my post grated you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
Me again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
Yet somehow you're gonna pretend you weren't referring to me. That worked once, because it was true. It doesn't work when it very blatantly is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
HoodRat kind of served you there, but beyond that, you haven't responded that the aggro table is relational. This means, if both DPS are trash, then the aggro will show up similar to if they're both good.Quote:
Unfortunately there aren't fflogs for Kugane Castle, so you'll have to pardon me and use an ounce of common sense there. If you believe otherwise, I envy you the parties you've been in.
No, your definition of garbage is braindead. If aggro tools aren't good enough, then the lower DPS is either AFK, semi AFK, so utterly bad at this game they cannot muster complete combos, or they're outclassed as far as gear goes. Which, again, doesn't cover if both DPS are bad or both DPS are good, seeing as the aggro gauge is a relational measure, and no I'm not gonna stop bringing it up because you consistently haven't answered it.Quote:
My definition of garbage is garbage, yes. Shocking, isn't it? If we're talking high DPS vs bad DPS, the gap caused by the enmity reducer is soon covered, especially in the case of a 10 minute or so long fight.
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05-30-2018, 05:18 PMRokkuEkkusuYou'd think SE would fix these so-called "poorly coded" fights after all these years. I guess not. So it must be working as intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoodRat
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05-30-2018, 05:20 PMDualgunnerNo, you wouldn't. They don't generally go back and work through these poorly coded fights, see Byakko Tank LB3 strat and Warrior Ghost Cheese strat for more recent examples of fight mechanics the devs have not and will not fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu
To backend this logic back on you, you'd think if SE liked making fights like that they'd have kept going instead of stopping in ARR. They must be making fights as intended. -
05-30-2018, 05:39 PMmosaicexIfrit, yes due to Nail explosion debuff, but Nail itself is also DPS check, the fight just asked you to be smart about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu
Leviathan and Ramuh, not so much.
Levi EX has direct DPS check on Spume and Wavetooth.
Ramuh will wipe you if you didn't kill all the adds in time.
Hell you can even add Sephirot EX and his adds to the list.
They punish stupidity and tunnel visioning.
Same goes for Haukke HM's boss too. Doing too little DPS on the add, failing to kill it, will allow the boss to absorb her and wipe the party all the same.
Most of them absolutely didn't punish players from doing too much DPS, just ones that put them in the wrong place at the wrong time. But of course none of this will be too obvious to someone who had only done the fight unsynced. -
05-30-2018, 05:49 PMLunaxiaYou keep reiterating about aggro tools, which I've talked about. I'm not sure what else I'm missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
I picked you because you made a point about condescension that I wanted to respond to, while also quoting the poster my own post was referencing. I was not addressing you personally, as much as you'd like to think so. By "here" I meant this thread, not your response.Quote:
pls
If you're in a dungeon with two trash DPS, you won't even need to consult the aggro table because you will immediately know it, so it renders the point moot.Quote:
snip.
anecdotalevidence.jpgQuote:
If aggro tools aren't good enough, then the lower DPS is either AFK, semi AFK, so utterly bad at this game they cannot muster complete combos, or they're outclassed as far as gear goes.
You seem to be using dungeons as evidence now, which... is almost entirely meaningless as far as content goes, but all right. I don't get the point you're trying to make though. If both DPS are good or bad, the need to see who is the better or worse becomes irrelevant. -
05-30-2018, 06:13 PMDualgunner"There are scenarios where you're wrong."Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
"Those aren't the scenarios I'm talking about."
"There's your problem, you need to consider all scenarios."
"You keep reiterating about aggro tools, which I've talked about. I'm not sure what else I'm missing."
Obviously, the scenarios where the aggro meter is not a good measure of performance. IE: Both are good, both are bad, somebody died, multiple people died, aggro manipulation tools, all four are good, all four are bad.
As much as you're trying to backpedal, the fact is, based exactly on what you typed, and how this conversation evolved, you were talking to me.Quote:
I picked you because you made a point about condescension that I wanted to respond to, while also quoting the poster my own post was referencing. I was not addressing you personally, as much as you'd like to think so. By "here" I meant this thread, not your response.
All along, all I said was that the aggro meter is a bad tool to try and read DPS and performance. If you're going to all that extra effort to see every shadewalker, smokescreen, and diversion you can get a better read on somebody's performance by just looking at their buffs and the boss' debuffs than you ever would looking at an aggro meter. It's more accurate too, because you don't have to account for the fact that the only time the aggro meter will show you people's performance differences reliably is in a very extreme and fringe example.Quote:
If you're in a dungeon with two trash DPS, you won't even need to consult the aggro table because you will immediately know it, so it renders the point moot.
Oh please. Don't you even lol, I made a generalized statement based on the tools that are available, and the level of performance needed to make those tools moot. There was no personal experience used in that quoted bit whatsoever. But good try trying to call fallacies.Quote:
anecdotalevidence.jpg
First off, I'm speaking in general terms, as this is applicable in four man or eight man content.Quote:
You seem to be using dungeons as evidence now, which... is almost entirely meaningless as far as content goes, but all right. I don't get the point you're trying to make though. If both DPS are good or bad, the need to see who is the better or worse becomes irrelevant.
Second: When was this discussion about finding out who's better as a DPS? This started as a conversation about using the aggro meter in place of a parser, which was then countered with the fact that the aggro meter is a terrible tool to do so with. -
05-30-2018, 06:14 PMgiwaman
Trust the process
It all depends on how dedicated you are, everyone can achieve Greatness just like in real life you gotta study and work hard for you dreams.
I use to be an aweful player and never in my wildest dream to step foot and raid savage content, and then I cleared O8s xD !. -
05-30-2018, 06:39 PMMoroMurasakiI don't understand what evidence you deem acceptable? You've dismissed everything. When people use Savage as an example it's all about how Savage is separate, now Dual is phrasing things around the idea of a dungeon situation but it still isn't good enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
What specific piece of content are you trying to frame things around, for the sake of being able to have a conversation about it instead of this constant wheel of "sorry wrong content" that's been cropping up so much lately.
Let me tell you, a RDM could be not very good at all but if they hit their opener without Diversion in it they will be tanking more than half the time. Enmity means almost nothing in relation to damage until you get to the very high end of dps where enmity starts to become an issue even when threat dumps are used appropriately and frequently or the gear disparity between a tank and a dps is so great that it has an impact.
The point is no matter the content, from dungeons to Savage, there are too many variables to be able to measure a single player's dps without at least having inside information on the other members of the party or, prefarably, the ability to parse. Just the wild variation that you can see in terms of dps from support roles renders the "how fast the content feels" thing essentially moot - you could have tanks and healers contributing the vast majority of party damage while all the dps slack off, still feels like it's going fast enough so those dps must be adequate, right?
There is no substitute for a parser. None. To suggest otherwise is to spread misinformation. -
05-30-2018, 06:46 PMLunaxiaYou would naturally take aggro manipulation and deaths into account anyway? Nor do I see much changing if there are multiple bad DPS. It will still be evident by enrages/ kill speed. I won't be able to know for certain who is worse than the other, but if multiple DPS are that bad, does it matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
I am not backpedaling. It wasn't addressed at you, and at this point, I have no reason to lie. It genuinely wasn't.Quote:
no
It's not much effort, as a healer my eyes are usually in that area anyway, particularly on AST. I've never even said it's my own preferred method of judging either; I also look at rotations, gear, buffs and the like. I just believe it can be used to loosely gather who's bringing the group down.Quote:
snip.
And those tools are? Was the 2.5k DRG in another post asleep at the keyboard, then?Quote:
bloop
I can't speak for the other poster, but my original point was that the aggro meter can show the "garbage" player in a group. I never said it should be used in place of a parser.Quote:
snip
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05-30-2018, 06:48 PMAegisKiddoQuote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia View Post
Unfortunately there aren't fflogs for Kugane Castle
Do you ever get that feeling your wrong, and when your default augment is to make a strawman; your called out on it, you move back to your default position. How about you think, before you type and maybe the constant trend of people disagreeing with you in this thread might changeQuote: -
05-30-2018, 06:53 PMGrifield
My point of view :
Dungeon : I'm good enough to carry the other dps
Raid 24 : 23 other morons with me, can't do anything to safe it
Savage / Extreme : choosing wisely who I'm playing with saved my life more than once -
05-30-2018, 06:55 PMMisteNo it can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
End. -
05-30-2018, 06:59 PMLunaxiaI've answered what you've said before, but let me address this right now: I've never said otherwise, and you have grossly misunderstood my point if so.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
My original point still stands. Kugane was just an example; you can't get data from dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by AegisKiddo
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05-30-2018, 07:00 PMKaivaC
This is still going on? Surprising. Look, you guys are arguing over a stupid comment that I made. It was dumb, offensive, and elitist as hell. Mayhaps it spun off from the original post, but nevertheless, it is still spinning off an incredibly offensive statement that I made. Can you all agree to let this die down? It was a mistake on my part.
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05-30-2018, 07:19 PMMoroMurasakiAt some point with so many people misunderstanding your point don't you think it falls to you to better articulate your point? Seems like it would save you and others a lot of headaches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
Had a friend on SAM in an o6n earlier today who I do comperable damage to on RDM. No fault to him, I've been playing RDM longer than he's been on SAM. He took a tankbuster to the face though - didn't manage his enmity well enough. The fact that he was the one at the top of the threat table doesn't mean he was outdpsing me, just that we used our enmity tools differently.
If you honestly feel that you can do your job while also tracking how often and during what parts of their rotations other players use their enmity tools in order to calculate where they would be without them on the threat list and then extrapolate that into an estimate of who is doing "garbage"dps you are a better player than me.
Also I have a bridge you may be interested in buying. -
05-30-2018, 07:33 PMAsiraganThe funny thing is that you most certainly had no ill will when you created this thread, but on this game people are always prompt to take out the guns when talking about personal performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
Too late to stop the fire now, just sit back and enjoy as people will get back at each other for seemingly pointless reasons x) -
05-30-2018, 07:34 PMLunaxiaAll I've ever said is that you don't really need a parser to see that a DPS is performing badly, and that terrible DPS is reflected in the enmity list. I never said, anywhere, that it's on par with or as reliable as a parser, or that it should be used in place of one.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
It's not really difficult to see? It's not even a case of "tracking", it's fairly easy to notice the difference between someone that utilises Diversion/ Shadewalker etc. and someone not even using aggro tools sitting at the bottom of the list through most of the fight with a clear distinction between them and the rest of the group, especially if it's a higher performing job. -
05-30-2018, 07:41 PMMoroMurasakiI understand the direction you're trying to go here, humor me if you would be so kind. Sigma normal seems a happy middle ground. How do you pick out an underperforming dps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
Can you message me on discord? Please?Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC