Fending Accessories Strength Gain

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Originally Posted by SoulSkyheart

You gotta take into account levels 50-70 when potencies of tanks are dropped. You’ll be dealing undesirable and unappealing damage. As well as just slowing down parties that are leveling to 70.

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Lv all content below level 50 was designed with Tanks wearing Vit gear in mind in the 1st place. Adding Str to Tank accessories increasing tank damage by X% while also lowering overall tank damage by X% simultaneously does nothing at any level.

Actually theres an even simpler way. Lower Tank weapon damage by X% where X% is the damage gained from full str stat on accessories.

Random Numbers Example:
Adding Str to accessories increases tank damage by 25%. 100 damage=125. Lower all weapon damage by 20%. New damage of 125*0.8=100. Same damage.

That applies if your level 15 or 150. Tack on the ilvl appropriate amount of Str to every vit accessory. Lower base damage of all weapons to compensate. End result is all tanks do the same damage post change as pre change. All gear now matters. Vit/Damage are still separate stats.

If anything it would be a buff to lower level jobs. Currently we have ~40 str on accs. That would jump to 90+. Lets just say 2x the bonus. At levels below 70 vit accessories have 0 str. So a level 69 accessory might go from 0 str to 80ish. That is actually a greater buff to jobs below 70. 70+ we only gain ~50% of the full value because we already have half the str. lv 1-69 accs would gain 100% of the value.

This would be a tank buff 1-69 and a sidegrade lv 70+.

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Originally Posted by Aana

Actually theres an even simpler way. Lower Tank weapon damage by X% where X% is the damage gained from full str stat on accessories..

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This suggestion attracted me to it more than it should. We are tanks, we are supposed to scale to be the raid boss of THE raid boss. I’d like if we had high potencies the lower our levels and scale down lower as we grow higher in level for lower scaled potencies will be made up by the stats we gain off gear.

I can imagine a 300 potency ability at 50 be scaled to 150-200 to offset the balance between gear. It can and will help feel tanks feel powerful without stripping them from their current power growth. I would like to feel like I’m growing in every step of my leveling experience, all the way to end game where that satisfaction level is higher and stronger than it ever was.

Abilities that were useless or niche can give them that umf we are all looking for.

What would be the point of gaining more strength if you just devise a convoluted system that keeps you at about the level you are now?

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

Yeah, I have. Only a minimal main stat increasement. :/

So, I'm guessing that me, getting pentamelded (STR VI, DH VI, x3 DH V) HQ accs on my tank, sets me for 6 months? Wow, way to kill O5S for me, lol. Once again.

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I plan on using the O5S neck and ring over crafted.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

What would be the point of gaining more strength if you just devise a convoluted system that keeps you at about the level you are now?

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Because right now the vast majority of our power and defense are exclusively left side pieces to the point that accessories can be 20+ ilevels lower with a few melds stay BIS. 220 crafted accessories were bIS from 4.0 to 4.2. I just finished pentamelding my 250 accessories yesterday. I will wear them until 4.4. I will cry every time a tank accessory drops because it might as well just be a middle finger to my raid group. All this because they don't scale our primary damage stat like every other class (even healers).

Theres 2 problems.
1. Players want gear progression like every other class. Meaningful. Worthwhile. Players don't have that now.
2. SE doesn't want tank damage to get to high and wants to separate defense and offense stats to balance content more easily.

So what are the solutions:
* Make vit our damage stat: SE tried it. SE didn't like it and the reason they told us was they wanted to be able to scale defense and offense separately. If they are 1 stat its hard to balance content.
* Make vit/str a 50/50 split. SE tried it. SE didn't like it.
* Put str on accessories. SE halfassed it. They put half the str on and scaled it miserably (1 per 10 ilvl) which doesn't actually solve the player problem. Tank accessories are instantly garbage and never used. Tanks still have the odd burden of having expensive pentameld be BIS for the entire ilvl tier unlike every other class.
* Put FULL str on accessories. SE hasn't tried because tank damage would be 'to damn high'.

So this 'convoluted' solution gives SE what they want. Separate damage and defense stats and keeps tank damage in check. It gives players what they want. More even power distribution between left and right side on par with other classes so tank accessories are actually worth equipping and don't make the raid facepalm when they drop, and stops the stupid system where expensive pentameld gear 20 ilvls lower is BIS. It makes tanks the same as everyone else while accounting for SE's self stated reasons why they wont do what players want.


All that besides, theres nothing really convoluted about it. Add the same str to all tank accs as on melee gear. Whatever % that raises damage, lower weapon damage across the board by that %. Its literally only making 2 gear number changes. No potency rebalancing. No revamping jobs. Changing numbers on gear by flat ratios. Its stupid easy.

Now that we’re on the topic of on defense and offense and how offense should not be too high. Why in god’s name did they create DRK’s sacrifice offense for defense TBN when it can’t break even the damage done for the mana cost. First their class is busted, next their stats are busted, now their class design’s original purpose is busted. This just keeps getting better and better doesn’t it?

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Originally Posted by Aana

All that besides, theres nothing really convoluted about it. Add the same str to all tank accs as on melee gear. Whatever % that raises damage, lower weapon damage across the board by that %. Its literally only making 2 gear number changes. No potency rebalancing. No revamping jobs. Changing numbers on gear by flat ratios. Its stupid easy.

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They'd be more likely to reduce the strength of Main Hand weapons and reallocate that to the Raid accessories, given that Weapon Damage doesn't really happen in fractions, and I'd guarantee having your weapon damage dump 1-2 points would probably raise just as much ruckus, even if your fending accessories are now "Upgrades"

Secondly, anyone who wants to push the content as hard as possible is going to pentameld.

It isn't some unfair cost that Tanks are forced to do that others don't. Casul's gon' skimp out be it tank, DPS, or healer, but those who want to hit the content ASAP are pentamelding. Having more incentive to keep it doesn't make the cost inherently higher than someone else's.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

They'd be more likely to reduce the strength of Main Hand weapons and reallocate that to the Raid accessories, given that Weapon Damage doesn't really happen in fractions, and I'd guarantee having your weapon damage dump 1-2 points would probably raise just as much ruckus, even if your fending accessories are now "Upgrades"

Secondly, anyone who wants to push the content as hard as possible is going to pentameld.

It isn't some unfair cost that Tanks are forced to do that others don't. Casul's gon' skimp out be it tank, DPS, or healer, but those who want to hit the content ASAP are pentamelding. Having more incentive to keep it doesn't make the cost inherently higher than someone else's.

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The difference is, every class will get their BiS by running content, except tanks will get it by dropping 3 million a piece.

Sure if you push content, many people are going to pentameld, this hasn't really seemed to be an issue. And if you don't care about a week 1 clear you can wait a week and get better gear and likely be fine. The only job that will need to reach BiS through crafting is tank. 4.05 to 4.2 tank BiS was 333, not 340.

To be clear, this isn't about pushing content. You can choose to not pentameld and still reach your BiS on both healer and dps. Unless you play tanks in which case you are forced to pentameld.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

To be clear, this isn't about pushing content. You can choose to not pentameld and still reach your BiS on both healer and dps. Unless you play tanks in which case you are forced to pentameld.

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The difference in BIS is mathed out somewhere in the realm of 1.8% DPS, at the expense of other attributes. BIS doesn't mean that much in this game, so I personally don't see the problem or the obsession with it. I won't say it doesn't have some value in satisfaction, but most of what is said here feels like its exaggerated a great deal.

Also, keep in mind I am arguing that Raid accessories should come with the Strength materia assumed (So it should be +25 over what it is now) which in turn further reduces the BiS difference to something like .8-1%. It's boggling they haven't at least done this.

The situation does suck, but it also seems a bit disingenuous to say this is somehow greatly unfair to Tanks.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

The difference in BIS is mathed out somewhere in the realm of 1.8% DPS, at the expense of other attributes. BIS doesn't mean that much in this game, so I personally don't see the problem or the obsession with it. I won't say it doesn't have some value in satisfaction, but most of what is said here feels like its exaggerated a great deal.

Also, keep in mind I am arguing that Raid accessories should come with the Strength materia assumed (So it should be +25 over what it is now) which in turn further reduces the BiS difference to something like .8-1%. It's boggling they haven't at least done this.

The situation does suck, but it also seems a bit disingenuous to say this is somehow greatly unfair to Tanks.

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I understand what you are advocating for, and it is a good thing, provided we are able to meld the additional strength still.

I'm disagreeing with you trying to minimize this. It might be a small difference in dps. But once again, other classes reach their best gear set for running the content they are already running. Tanks do not. That is a clear difference that puts more burden on one class than the other, regardless of what the pushers are trying to do.

If I want that extra 1.8%, which healers and dps can get over time without time and gil investment over what is needed to run the content, I need to either have alot of gil, or spend a large amount of time and energy collecting that materia. That is a relatively large time investment that I wouldn't need to do if I played another class.

Is BiS the be all end all? No, it isn't game breaking for a tank to not reach their best in slot gear. Is it ideal for the game to have one job having to put in way more time than the other to reach that? No, it is really demotivating to know that, and yes that is a problem. You might find it disingenuous to suggest that only 1 job needing to spend millions of gil to reach their best gear, while the other two jobs will get theirs for free from running content the same content, but hey opinions right?

As a side note, I find it strange than SE feels that strength and vit need to be two different stats to be independently tuned. I would think that all that would need to be done is to change the class multiplier in the damage formula to tune that separately from out HP pool. At some level the game must work as a formula to compute our current maximum HP from our Vit and another formula to compute our damage from our strength. Lets call f our HP formula and g our damage forumla

f(vitality) = HP
g(c*vitality) = damage

Tune c to make c*vitality = whatever your desired strength is to tune damage. I find their reasoning very strange. If they are using the same damage formula for all classes and instead tuning damage output using class multipliers for damage, once again just tune that parameter instead of the amount of strength to adjust things. I don't understand why having two different stats means more freedom for tuning.

Then you could just replace the strength on tank gear with Tenacity and have yet another parameter for tuning incoming/outgoing tank damage on gear, and give tanks meaningful progression on gear and damage. This also makes tanks tankier with the tenacity mitigation, and highlights why you don't want dps getting punched by adds. Just my two cents.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Is BiS the be all end all? No, it isn't game breaking for a tank to not reach their best in slot gear. Is it ideal for the game to have one job having to put in way more time than the other to reach that? No, it is really demotivating to know that, and yes that is a problem. You might find it disingenuous to suggest that only 1 job needs to spend millions of gil to reach their best gear, while the other two jobs will get theirs for free from running content the same content, but hey opinions right?

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I guess. I imagine the amount of pentamelded tanks running about doesn't greatly exceed the amount of pentamelded healers or DPS running about at the start of any given tier patch but that requires data I dont' have access to.

In the meantime: Selling fending accessories, best price on the market! Comes pre-pentamelded! Save yourself the stress!

I dont't get why the Str on the tank acc is so low that you can pentameld it, while the Str on the left side is exactly the same as a dd item. Move some str from the left side to the right side and just cap it. If Tanks are supposed to do like...I dunno...70% the dps of a dd, why don't their items have like 70-80% of the strenght a dd item has, without the possibility to meld str?

No matter how you slice it, tank best gear is bought and melded. No other jobs best gear is. Upgraded raid and tome gear is supposed to be the best by SEs admission. 20 ills of gear should be an upgrade but it isn't. This only applies to tanks. That's flatly not fair no matter how you slice it.

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Originally Posted by Aana

No matter how you slice it, tank best gear is bought and melded. No other jobs best gear is. Upgraded raid and tome gear is supposed to be the best by SEs admission. 20 ills of gear should be an upgrade but it isn't. This only applies to tanks. That's flatly not fair no matter how you slice it.

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Seeking clarification is the crafted gear better due to the higher DPS return per item?

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Originally Posted by Awha

Seeking clarification is the crafted gear better due to the higher DPS return per item?

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Only the right hand side pieces. The 370 left hand side pieces are usually better than any alternative.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Only the right hand side pieces. The 370 left hand side pieces are usually better than any alternative.

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So reason people are asking me to buy crafted right side is solely for the DPS gains? RIP why is SE trying so hard to fight the DPS meta.

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Originally Posted by Awha

So reason people are asking me to buy crafted right side is solely for the DPS gains? RIP why is SE trying so hard to fight the DPS meta.

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To be absolutely frank, it isn't necessary for you to buy the right side for DPS gains or clearing purposes.

I wouldn't hassle with it if you're not trying to min/max.

It's expensive and almost not worth the effort.

Furthermore, you must remember that on your accessories for tanks you have a lack of STR, which means you'll be melding STR every time, shorting you out of other necessary stats. That is a huge shortcoming thanks to SE. They need to fix that.

If you choose to meld your right side with 350 ACC, it's because you want to manipulate stats and utilize something favorable to your build. It also frees up your rolls in progression towards other things you may need/want.

In gist, if you're not trying to min/max then just get regular accessories.

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Originally Posted by Awha

So reason people are asking me to buy crafted right side is solely for the DPS gains? RIP why is SE trying so hard to fight the DPS meta.

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The differences are:
370 accessory: 1 additional strength, 18 additional vitality, 11 additional 1st secondary stat, 7 additional 2nd secondary stat
350 pentameded: 76 secondary stats to put where you want.

So subtracting the 11 & 7 additional secondary stats from the 370 you get 58 secondary stats vs 1 strength and 18 vitality. Clearly 58 secondary stats are worth more than 18 vitality and 1 strength, though the differences are minor.

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Originally Posted by iridemyunicorneverynight

To be absolutely frank, it isn't necessary for you to buy the right side for DPS gains or clearing purposes.

I wouldn't hassle with it if you're not trying to min/max.

It's expensive and almost not worth the effort.

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Originally Posted by Thela

Clearly 58 secondary stats are worth more than 18 vitality and 1 strength, though the differences are minor.

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Basiclly this, if you aren't one of 1-5% of people trying to maximize their damage, pentamelded accessories aren't worth the gil and effort.

From my own experience, I can tell that the difference in non-crafted accessories vs pentamelded ones is even less than 5% damage PLUS the fact that party buffs are inevitable to even notice their full effect.

In 4.1, on my first char (pentamelded BiS) I did ~4300 DPS as WAR with potions + bufffood in O1s. On my second char without any crafted accessories, no bufffood nor potions ~4100 DPS on a 'failed'/'not optimized' speed kill.

In conclusion, even with potions, a 'successful' speed kill AND pentamelded accessories, my first char might have beaten my second char by not even 5%. Take away all buffs, such as potions, and the difference might be 1 or 2% at max.

If you have 5+ mil gil to spare, sure go for pentamelded ACC. If not, don't bother with it!

Why are you complaining about being able to buy\craft BiS day 1 of a patch.

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Originally Posted by Saint_Angeles

Why are you complaining about being able to buy\craft BiS day 1 of a patch.

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Because this is stupid. The best gear should be obtained by beating the toughest bosses. Not by opening his wallet.

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Originally Posted by Saint_Angeles

Why are you complaining about being able to buy\craft BiS day 1 of a patch.

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Because its stupid. I WANT to have gear progress. I WANT clearing raid to be meaningful. The same way that every other class in the game does. My entire static lets out a collective sigh when you beat a raid and a fending accessory drops because we might as well throw it on the ground. Its not useful for anything. Not even glamour. We just wish ANYTHING else had dropped instead. We don't do that when a str ring drops, or a mnd/dex/int ring drops. We get excited. Someone gets to improve. Someone gets stronger. Our team gets stronger and we get to celebrate that together. Instead, I just put it straight on my retainer because at least ilvl matters to them.

Pentameld crafted gear is designed to be hardcore raid pushers gear. Not BIS for the entire patch. If your entire gearset BIS was just crafted why raid at all? The entire point of raiding is to forge your character through the hardest battles to become stronger than ever. Until a vit ring drops and you just hope next week will be better.

Crafted day 1 gear being best for 6 months destroys progression. Its dumb and doesn't apply to ANY class but tanks. The only reason we have this problem is SE has been all over the map when dealing with tank stats for years instead of a multitude of common sense solutions.

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Originally Posted by Aana

If your entire gearset BIS was just crafted why raid at all?.

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One would hope for the fun of it. The point of a raid boss is to have a challenge to overcome. The fact that people can kill these bosses with the bare minimum of raid dropped gear removes raid gear from the equation.

It is certainly a facet of enjoyment to the raid game to get loot from it, but the point of having hard content is to have something worthwhile to test yourself against and overcome.

We got a +1 in STR from 340 to 350/360 Gear? What a dumb thing lol

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

We got a +1 in STR from 340 to 350/360 Gear? What a dumb thing lol

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It is exceptional, I don't even think you need to meld that much to out weigh the 1 strength gain on the accessories. I would like real gear progression.

If people reading this have a moment please go like this post to try and get some dark knight attention from the developers during the live letter.

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Originally Posted by Ash_

The 4.2 changes to Dark Knight were nice, but didn't go anywhere far enough to address the core issues of the class. In terms of DPS, mitigation and utility we now feel farther behind PLD and WAR than ever before. And ever since the 4.0 changes DRK's lost a lot of their identity with previous class specific skills such as reprisal and low blow becoming role actions, losing Shadowskin, and an overall dramatic increase to clunkiness in terms of feel due to having to use dark arts, skill, dark arts, skill, etc.

As DRK's we feel like we've been left in dark place and forgotten about. Are there any plans to overhaul or rework the class?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4564656

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

One would hope for the fun of it. The point of a raid boss is to have a challenge to overcome. The fact that people can kill these bosses with the bare minimum of raid dropped gear removes raid gear from the equation.

It is certainly a facet of enjoyment to the raid game to get loot from it, but the point of having hard content is to have something worthwhile to test yourself against and overcome.

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If the accomplishment is enough for you, then why have any rewards in the game at all?

You can talk all you like about 'the experience' but if you look at how this and every other game works, you know that's not the only reason people do content. People do things, in large part, because there is a reward. I enjoy raiding as an experience. Ive been raiding with some of the people in my static for years since FFXI. The fun and friendship is obviously part of it, but its delusional to think that gear isn't one of the primary motivators for many. Character power progression and raiding 'experience' aren't mutually exclusive. You can have both, and every class but tanks DOES get both.

The point among all this is still very basic. Every other class in the game DOES get to enjoy that sense of progression while tanks just go to the AH, click a few buttons, then buy 200+ materia, then spam the meld button for half an hour. That is not nearly as fun as struggling through a raid with your friends winning 1 sec before enrage and cheering on your voip and congratulating whoever gets the loot that day. Unless its a tank. Then you open the chest and undo some of that hype feeling because a vit acc dropped. Or the general lowered enthusiasm of being a tank clearing tier 1 because you know theres no exciting progression for you there.

Its stupid. Theres no reason for that situation to exist. There have been dozens and dozens of suggestions over the years that deal with this problem and SE has taken heed of none of them.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

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That is the issue I personally have though and SE I do not understand why SE is so unwilling to just come to terms with the DPS meta that the community clearly wants. I get that it is not needed nevertheless, the clear divided between the developers and the communities view for how tanks should be geared and or played needs to reconciled and a compromise should be made.

If pentameld was not BiS and something that was simply meant to give people a slight edge at the start. I would understand. +1 in STR from 340 to 350/360 Gear is silly.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

A compromise was made. Tanks effectively get free Strength on their accessories, and this was only given because, from level 60 to level 100, they'd probably still be wearing i270 Slaying otherwise.

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Sorry English is not my native tongue, maybe compromise is the wrong word. I thought compromise meant when two or more parties find a solution that they both can agree with. Not sure what word one would use for to describe that, but this whole one sided dialog between the tanking community and the devs really needs to stop. Just seems as if SE likes to deal with bandaid fixes instead of just fixing the core issue.

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Originally Posted by Aana

Its stupid. Theres no reason for that situation to exist. There have been dozens and dozens of suggestions over the years that deal with this problem and SE has taken heed of none of them.

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Yes, and don't take this the wrong way, but dozens of those suggestions are garbage. I've read plenty of them.

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Originally Posted by Awha

That is the issue I personally have though and SE I do not understand why SE is so unwilling to just come to terms with the DPS meta that the community clearly wants. I get that it is not needed nevertheless, the clear divided between the developers and the communities view for how tanks should be geared and or played needs to reconciled and a compromise should be made.

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A compromise was made. Tanks effectively get free Strength on their accessories, and this was only given because, from level 60 to level 100, they'd probably still be wearing i270 Slaying otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Yes, and don't take this the wrong way, but dozens of those suggestions are garbage. I've read plenty of them.



A compromise was made. Tanks effectively get free Strength on their accessories, and this was only given because, from level 60 to level 100, they'd probably still be wearing i270 Slaying otherwise.

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Some of them are terrible. But over the YEARS this has been an issue (the entirety of the game) there have been a great many reasonable, rational, solutions proposed. Almost any of the reasonable suggestions would put tanks on a more equal level with other jobs than they currently are. It's really not that complicated. This game has 6 stats per job on gear and they all do the same thing for every class. This is not some impossible rocket science feat requiring a PHD. This game has ridiculously simple damage systems and only a handful of stats on gear to affect them. Less than than any other game ive played. Problems balancing gear are not hard ones to solve in a situation like this.

The 'compromise' just punted. Just shifted the goal post. Nothing has fundamentally changed since 2.x. Crafted accs with str are still the best just like in 2.0 and this has only ever applied to tanks and all the associated issues that come with that. The only progress that has been made is tanks aren't fighing with Drg/Mnk for str accessories because they took our name off it.

After years of SE fiddling with the system and players being unhappy about it we have nothing to show for it. Were back to square 1 of a problem that does not take reasonable minds YEARS to solve.

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Originally Posted by Aana

After years of SE fiddling with the system and players being unhappy about it we have nothing to show for it. Were back to square 1 of a problem that does not take reasonable minds YEARS to solve.

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What exactly is the reasonable solution here?

Edit: Actually I'll go first.

A 'reasonable' solution is simply this.

Firstly, Direct Hit is no longer accessible by tanks. The strong linear nature of this skill means Tanks will only ever meld this, and thus it removes choice from the matter. Point for point, the early gains of Direct Hit that tanks will never exceed outpace Det, Crit, Skillspeed, and Tenacity to disgusting degrees, and its ability to be melded while clearly being an unsupported stat choice strangleholds tanks into it.

Secondly, Primary Stats, even Vitality, are no longer meldable. The sheer weight of Primary stats outpaces that of secondaries, and even the binary nature of Have/Have Not with vitality shouldn't be present. All future accessories will assume the +25 Stat, except Vitality, that have become the standard for primary (green) melds.

These two changes effectively reduce the "BIS" of crafted accessories to such a marginal amount that it can be safely ignored outside hitting specific breakpoints for niche skill rotations. Neutralizing the clear 'DPS' difference means you can properly weight the increase of Strength, Vit, and Sub-stats that higher ilvls bring.

And I'm fairly certain that while this addresses the issue, a fair amount will be quite unhappy with this.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Firstly, Direct Hit is no longer accessible by tanks. The strong linear nature of this skill means Tanks will only ever meld this, and thus it removes choice from the matter. Point for point, the early gains of Direct Hit that tanks will never exceed outpace Det, Crit, Skillspeed, and Tenacity to disgusting degrees, and its ability to be melded while clearly being an unsupported stat choice strangleholds tanks into it.

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Your first point will just increase DPS disparity between WAR and DRK/PLD even more unless something is done to current Berserk/Inner Release, just saying.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Firstly, Direct Hit is no longer accessible by tanks. The strong linear nature of this skill means Tanks will only ever meld this, and thus it removes choice from the matter. Point for point, the early gains of Direct Hit that tanks will never exceed outpace Det, Crit, Skillspeed, and Tenacity to disgusting degrees, and its ability to be melded while clearly being an unsupported stat choice strangleholds tanks into it.

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Not to nit pick but Crit actually is bis for both dark knight and warrior this cycle. Honestly, SE should just cap strength at a lower value (so like 70) on the accessories (assuming as you say the +25 from materia but on all accessories) and then just have strength scale like a normal primary stat like vit. It solves everyone's issue and requires nothing complicated or new rules for 1 jobs accessories. Or they should give up on the false idea that you need two stats to independently tune formula's and have tank damage scale off its primary stat like both healers and dps.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Or they should give up on the false idea that you need two stats to independently tune formula's and have tank damage scale off its primary stat like both healers and dps.

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This is the primary issue I see.

You can pick any combination of scaling you want, but odds are you're going to end up at the same Attack Power. Would you really be happier if your Left side gets dumped about 50 strength and that got shifted over to your accessories?

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

This is the primary issue I see.

You can pick any combination of scaling you want, but odds are you're going to end up at the same Attack Power. Would you really be happier if your Left side gets dumped about 50 strength and that got shifted over to your accessories?

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At least BiS would be raid gear instead if pentamelds. It would also make tank drops useful again and not like a wasted run.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

This is the primary issue I see.

You can pick any combination of scaling you want, but odds are you're going to end up at the same Attack Power. Would you really be happier if your Left side gets dumped about 50 strength and that got shifted over to your accessories?

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I’m happy as long as all pieces of gear grow in power over time. We shouldn’t cross our fingers and hope no tank accessories drop. I really don’t get why tank accessories are “special” for no reason when it comes to stat growth.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I really don’t get why tank accessories are “special” for no reason when it comes to stat growth.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Q1. Currently some tanks stack STR on their accessories to increase their DPS, are changes planned for tank accessories themselves?

A1. We will be introducing adjustments in Tuesday’s patch 4.05.
We have received feedback from tanks regarding continuing to equip item level 270 accessories.

This puts more stress on the healers, and a lack of VIT may become an issue as we enter Savage. However, top players may be able to clear even under those conditions, so we worry that that will become the norm.

As a result, we have decided to add a minimum amount of STR to accessories.
When level syncing, only tanks will have STR stacked up, but we will overlook this for content up through 3.x.

Item level will increase in coming updates, but STR will not scale the same as VIT, so we would like you to keep that in mind.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4303186

Basicly, SE just wanted to free healers from the stress healing STR equiped tanks. It wasn't about us tanks getting accessories worth obtaining, but just make them more "appeal" to us than Alex/Proto/Shire STR accessories.

It NEVER was about tanks getting balanced gear.

So, while healers get full attack power from mind, and it's "easier" to heal tanks thanks to new accessories, us tanks have to bear that crafted pentamelded gear is and will be BiS throughout Stormblood.

PS: I am yet to find a post in which SE states they want to change tank gear. They probably never will, just like the past YEARS!

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

This is the primary issue I see.

You can pick any combination of scaling you want, but odds are you're going to end up at the same Attack Power. Would you really be happier if your Left side gets dumped about 50 strength and that got shifted over to your accessories?

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That's the entire point you've been missing. This isn't about 'increasing power'. Its about making all gear slots matter. Bards have lower weapon damage than melee classes. No one cares because they do what they are supposed to do. They are still happy when a weapon drops. Every slot of gear has progression for it. You do stuff, have fun, grow your character. That's the fundamental process in an MMO. That's all tanks want. To do content, have fun, but for half of our gear we automatically skip the grow your character part. This is not a complaint that tanks don't do enough damage. That has NOTHING to do with it.

I cleared sigmascape 1 normal on week one. Got a belt drop. Never need to go back there ever again because accessories. I can completely skip Sigma 1 savage forever because I don't need anything from there. I didn't need to spam lakshmi because accessories are useless. Didn't need to do EX garuda/ifrit/titan either because I already had BIS accessories in 2.x from the AH. I don't even need to farm tomes after about 2 months because I could buy my left side pieces and weapon. No need to waste tomes on accessories i'll never wear so running dungeons is a waste too in short order.

The fundamental design of MMOs of do stuff, grow character is lessened for tanks. I can ignore large sections of content by walking to the AH. Moreso than any other class by a giant margin. That's not fair to broke people who never reach the best gear. Its not fair to rich people that have no reason to do giant chunks of content more than once. Its not fair to raiders who are frustrated when you get tank accs 3 weeks in a row and their team doesn't get stronger. Its not fair to anyone and theres no reason for it to be this way.

Splitting up stats more evenly so that all slots grow is exactly what most tanks want. There are different ways to do it. Literally split our existing stat allocation more evenly would work. Add more str but lower weapon damage to maintain current dps would also work. All we want is to see a ring 20 ilvls higher and think "I want to try to get that" the same way when you see a sexy body 20 ilvls higher, or weapon, or belt. Then go out and fight like hell through eikons or imperials, or demons, or whatever to get it.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4303186

Basicly, SE just wanted to free healers from the stress healing STR equiped tanks. It wasn't about us tanks getting accessories worth obtaining, but just make them more "appeal" to us than Alex/Proto/Shire STR accessories.

It NEVER was about tanks getting balanced gear.

So, while healers get full attack power from mind, and it's "easier" to heal tanks thanks to new accessories, us tanks have to bear that crafted pentamelded gear is and will be BiS throughout Stormblood.

PS: I am yet to find a post in which SE states they want to change tank gear. They probably never will, just like the past YEARS!

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This most recent change of adding 50ish str scaling by 1 every 10 levels was for healers. The previous change not mentioned in that post was removing tanks from slaying (str) gear so they cant equip it from 61+. Before they added 50ish str to lv 70 accs, many tanks were using lv 60 slaying str gear because it was stronger than 0str fending lv 70 gear and waltzing into lv 70 content missing giant chunks of HP.

The quoted change didn't have anything to do with WHY they removed us from str gear, only a bandaid to stop us from using lv friggin 60 str gear. The str they added with the higher secondaries roughly equaled the lv 60 slaying gear. So you could get the same damage but also get boatloads of vit.

That was not a change to address the fundamental issues about tank accessories sucking. It just bandaided a problem SE created by removing tanks from slaying accessories which itself is a symptom of SE putting no scaling damage on half of our gear (right side). They just reset us to using lv 70 gear crafted like 2.0. They have made 4 major changes to tank stats about this over the years and we are literally right back at square 1.

Their previous posts about why they changed us away from vit damage scaling or the str/vit hybrid did describe the "we want defense and offense to scale separately". The post you quoted was exclusively to stop people from wearing lv 60 slaying accessories. Not the overarching problem.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I’m happy as long as all pieces of gear grow in power over time. We shouldn’t cross our fingers and hope no tank accessories drop. I really don’t get why tank accessories are “special” for no reason when it comes to stat growth.

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So you're fine with being weaker, so long as the raid drop is "better"?

Objectively speaking, that's probably one of the easier ways to 'solve' the problem, but it also feels like a step backwards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

So you're fine with being weaker, so long as the raid drop is "better"?

Objectively speaking, that's probably one of the easier ways to 'solve' the problem, but it also feels like a step backwards.

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Or keep dps the same and make it scale properly with all our gear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Or keep dps the same and make it scale properly with all our gear.

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(I mean, it does scale properly, but the scaling you just don't care about)

And I know why that is. Defenses tend to be a pretty binary thing in this game, given the power of healing and the nature of encounters.