Is the vote kick system improperly implemented for how it's actually being used?

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Originally Posted by Areic

Oh trust me, we reported the heck out of that. I don't mind if you want to be kicked to avoid a timer or something but douche moves like that are a pain.

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Even worse is when you're kicked from a roulette and have to re-queue and do it all over again. The GM's hands should not be tied if it's a clear cut case such as yours and you shouldn't have to waste your time doing it all over again.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

My solution to prevent abusing of the vote system is to force players to write a short report explaining the reasons on which they decide to dismiss someone, said report should then be seen by all party members, including the one to be dismissed, after that the voting would take place and if the majority agrees one player should be dismissed!...

Another way would be to have the ability to invoke a GM inside the duty before the voting could take place so the authorities would decide what is fair and whom should be dismissed!...

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What would a short message change? They still have the vote majority, thus you'll still be kicked. Allowing the person targeted by the dismissal to vote accomplishes nothing. You couldn't kick the tank since he won't vote against himself nor will the healer since they're friends. It's simply a reverse of the same problem you're complaining about. As for GM intervention. That requires having GMs constantly available on the off chance abuse happens. It's essentially paying someone to do very little most of the time since these types of incidents aren't common. Forcing people to play together when there is a clear disagreement just doesn't work. Even in the event a GM refused to allow them kicking you. Okay, great. Do you think the tank and healer are going to accommodate you? Now they're pissed and may intentionally perform even worse out of spite. And you can't claim abuse since GMs aren't able to moderate play style.

It sucks, however the best recourse to being kicked is simply shrugging it off.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

You know there's a language setting that prevents that from happening entirely!...

If set to a single language under Duty Finder, you shouldn't get a player from other region and such barriers could no longer be an excuse!...

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You can click on this snippit to go directly to the patch notes and see for yourself.
https://i.gyazo.com/4d6083bf33afa8b5...493e8622e1.png

Granted, that's still only leveling roulette, but it is still something to keep in mind.

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

I don't see kick abuse much at all when I'm solo queueing dungeons. It's very rare.

So, if it's happening to someone enough that they're feeling like the system is set up to be exploited, I would suggest that they ask themselves if the system is really the one at fault. If you're getting kicked a lot, it's far less likely to be because of troll premades getting their jollies by harrassing people. What you might see as acceptable behaviour might not be seen the same way by others.

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happens more often then you think, and isn't all that rare. They changed how often you can vote kick people because of it. I've seen people vote kick others "just because", or the person they kicked wasn't playing to what the kicker wanted even though the person being kicked was fine.

Sometimes a person will vote kick someone just to leave with out eating a 30 min. Not everyone who votes "yes" understands why, it's just a box on their screen.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

happens more often then you think, and isn't all that rare. They changed how often you can vote kick people because of it. I've seen people vote kick others "just because", or the person they kicked wasn't playing to what the kicker wanted even though the person being kicked was fine.

Sometimes a person will vote kick someone just to leave with out eating a 30 min. Not everyone who votes "yes" understands why, it's just a box on their screen.

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I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but personal experience (with over 1000 completed instances) says that abuse of votekicks happens less than 1% of the time. I've been troll kicked a total of twice since I've started playing, and seen maybe 5 abusive kicks on other people. Perhaps I'm lucky, or perhaps people this happens to on a more regular basis are actually doing things to invite it. For instance, if you're doggedly trying to enforce your own personal preference of playstyle on strangers that aren't ok with it, you invite a potential kick.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Because they are the target of the vote. No democracy allows you to vote for or against yourself.

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You're joking, right? ALL democracies allow you to vote for yourself. You've not seen the PMs and Presidents out casting their votes come election day? No-one is disenfranchised for being involved.

What about needing 75% of yes instead of 50%, which mean in dungeon you need 100% of yes instead of 66%, and in 24man raid you won't get kicked out because 4 people wanted their pal in.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

You're joking, right? ALL democracies allow you to vote for yourself. You've not seen the PMs and Presidents out casting their votes come election day? No-one is disenfranchised for being involved.

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Technically you auto vote yourself into no.

I agree with the OP, the votekick system could use improvement.

The targeted player of a votekick should informed of the current vote, so he can defend himself or ask what is going on if there is no apparent reason for him to be kicked.

And the name of the player who initiates the votekick should be announced. Being anonymous only encourages abuse.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Technically you auto vote yourself into no.

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technically how?

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

I don't see kick abuse much at all when I'm solo queueing dungeons. It's very rare.

So, if it's happening to someone enough that they're feeling like the system is set up to be exploited, I would suggest that they ask themselves if the system is really the one at fault. If you're getting kicked a lot, it's far less likely to be because of troll premades getting their jollies by harrassing people. What you might see as acceptable behaviour might not be seen the same way by others.

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This. I solo queue for almost everything in DF. In my entire time playing the game (since 1.0), I have been kicked from a party once, in 2014 I think. I've played on both NA and EU data centres. It's also rare to see others being kicked from DF parties. If this happens to you often, consider the option that the fault may not be in everyone else.

Still, kicking right before the last boss, while not doing anything about it before, is a jerk move. If a problem arises, it should be solved at first opportunity or "ignored" all the way to the end.

As for the suggestion for a vote...that's not actually needed. That's what chat is for.

Recently, while leveling my Paladin, I ended up in a party with one DPS wanting to clear Haukke Manor fully. He went ahead and picked up mobs that are out of the way, in additional rooms etc. When he pulled the mobs on the side next to the first boss, I told him that I would prefer it if he told me if he wanted a full clear instead of pulling the mobs himself. He said that he's there for experience and he does, but someone else said they wanted a fast clear. After the first boss was downed, I asked the members whether they want fast clear or full clear. My vote excluded, for an odd amount of people. He wanted full clear but both of the others wanted fast clear. And we went ahead with a fast clear. He didn't cause problems about that.

Why do you need a mechanic to allow for something like that? Sure, the auto abandon is a function that this doesn't offer...but then again...many parties would not be particularly happy about that. They would prefer to "talk it over" in case of a tie (which wouldn't even happen if there's anyone that would be fine either way, like it was the case in me).

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but personal experience (with over 1000 completed instances) says that abuse of votekicks happens less than 1% of the time. I've been troll kicked a total of twice since I've started playing, and seen maybe 5 abusive kicks on other people. Perhaps I'm lucky, or perhaps people this happens to on a more regular basis are actually doing things to invite it. For instance, if you're doggedly trying to enforce your own personal preference of playstyle on strangers that aren't ok with it, you invite a potential kick.

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you're just lucky. I've seen the latter. And people rarely "ask for it" most people just play the game and try to communicate to people when need to.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

you're just lucky. I've seen the latter. And people rarely "ask for it" most people just play the game and try to communicate to people when need to.

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I think you're just biased cause it's easier to remember the bad than the good. In about ten months of me playing, I saw two or three kicks in total. Two on the same person, in a span of two days...just cause that person did not do a thing after entering a dungeon. Ah...one was a kick in PvP for botting. I never saw a kick for anything gameplay related or a personality related. And I am anything but lucky. And there were times when I was in horrid parties where people kept arguing and what not, where kicking was most certainly a valid option.

On a different note, being overly defensive and saying "I play how I want to, if you don't like then it's your problem" IS inviting a kick. Dungeons/trials are first and foremost party play content. You don't play them how you want to. You play them how the party wants to. And that applies to all the people involved. Most of the time, party lets everyone do stuff their own way, and that's fine. But sometimes you get into a party that does not, and that wants to do it a specific way. Either adapt...or leave on your own. If not, whether excusable or not, you may end up being kicked.

Now, I don't say either that kicking for gameplay differences is either good or bad. I just state the facts, how people react to things. When dealing with others, unlike when dealing with computers...you accept the fact that your opinion and your way does not need to always be the one followed by the group. It's simple as that.

I have close to 7,000 duties on my main alone not counting my 5 fully leveled alts and I can say that people are rarely kicked in duty finder in my experience unless they AFK or DC. I would venture to say those who see a lot more kicks may in fact be the ones initiating the kicks or are talking about party finder and duties like clears for deltascape and the like where people join who have no clears or who are seriously under performing.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Congratulations: You just found yet another flaw in the 4-man party setup.In a 4-man setup, 2vs2 ties can happen and there's no fair way to make a resolution.

In a 5-man setup, the 5th person acts as a tiebreaker - It's always either 3vs2 or 4vs1, a clear majority and a clear minority.

Just write it on the:"Why it was a bad idea to make parties be 4 man" list.

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That might be a good overhaul for 5.0, make it 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps, none of this 2 v 2 premade situations, then it is whoever gets the vote kick up first.

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

I don't see kick abuse much at all when I'm solo queueing dungeons. It's very rare.

So, if it's happening to someone enough that they're feeling like the system is set up to be exploited, I would suggest that they ask themselves if the system is really the one at fault. If you're getting kicked a lot, it's far less likely to be because of troll premades getting their jollies by harrassing people. What you might see as acceptable behaviour might not be seen the same way by others.

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It is not " very rare" just rare.

The best solo queue harassment I seen was on my BLM during HW. A tank refused to play properly, and I would use quelling, and got hate again about 3 sec after it wore off. I was told "push less buttons" and was kicked.

Any event, Kick abuse should be taken more seriously. It does not matter how "rare" it is, there should be more efforts to not enabling trolling.

I have another question now that I think about it, if a majority premade enters a trial, and "votes" to keep wiping it, and kicks the people trying to perform it right, what then? how is the majority correct in that case? (Yes it happened)

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I have close to 7,000 duties on my main alone not counting my 5 fully leveled alts and I can say that people are rarely kicked in duty finder in my experience unless they AFK or DC. I would venture to say those who see a lot more kicks may in fact be the ones initiating the kicks or are talking about party finder and duties like clears for deltascape and the like where people join who have no clears or who are seriously under performing.

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No, tends to happen more when you are in some sort of premade, like 2 or 3 queuing together.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

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I think you're kind of proving my point here. It obviously hasn't happened much to you either, or you'd have more than the one huge eye roller of a story (I wonder how that tank's friend/s put up with that sort of attitude). Rare is rare, even if you might quibble over *how* rare.

I don't believe I ever said that kick abuse shouldn't be taken seriously though. I simply said that people who seem to think that it's common enough to be a big problem are probably getting kicked due to their own actions more than to the rare abusive premade kicks. People that are abusing the kick system absolutely should be punished for it, however.

Also, extending the group composition to 3 dps, 1 tank 1 healer won't stop those rare abusive kicks from happening. Because 3 man premades are a thing too. Could easily see more of those with an extra slot for DPS being allowed.

Vote kick should be limited to offline, afk, and harassment. Our GMs including 'different play styles' which isn't even listed as an option just causes problems.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Vote kick should be limited to offline, afk, and harassment. Our GMs including 'different play styles' which isn't even listed as an option just causes problems.

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Do you have any suggestions on how they would fix it though?

Because they are going to get reports from people who got kicked because they refused to compromise to the majority.

If one person wants to RP /walk through the dungeon and stop every few mins taking screenshots of things and the 3 others don't and they kick the person walking then....they should get punished for kicking for differing play styles?

What about a tank who is trying to speed run and the 3 others don't want to? If they kick the tank for differing play styles.... do they get punished for kicking him?

This is why SE went with the current different playstyle option. Miste has a point, how would SE fix this?

I tanked a dungeon yesterday and we had this BLM who was either roleplaying or trolling as a Thunder Mage. He refused to cast any other skill, then Thunder (single damage) and Thunder (AoE damage) spells. The BLM refused to work with the rest of the group and decided that his sub = he can do whatever he wants without any consequences. We kicked him out and moved on.

If playerstyle differences were not a valid option, then 3 players would have been punished for 1 players playstyle. I understand that playstyle differences is not ideal, but its the best option that we have right now.

I have only been kicked from a group one time, that I can remember, in the four years I've played. However, I have kicked a lot of people, and I've left a lot of groups in lieu of drama. Honestly, you are likely the problem if it happens often enough that you notice. However, I do think the dialogue box should be changed to reflect the intent of the vote kick system more clearly.

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Vote dismiss is intended to help parties resolve disputes without GM interaction.
Select reason for dismissal:
Offline
Playstyle Differences

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For the second option I think there should be a text entry box to include a brief description of your reason. "Player is uncooperative", "Player is being abusive", "Player is preventing progress on the objective". Then that message should be added to the chatlog when the vote passes.

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[Player Name] has been dismissed for [Reason Given]

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I don't think this is a perfect solution, but it's better than what we have now. Players shouldn't have to hunt down old forum posts from GMs to clarify how this feature should work.

Addendum:
I was referring to this GM post specifically. It is also the basis for my suggestion.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2358628

In 80% cases it's used not for these few legal reasons listed so no, it's not working as intended. Also 'injustified voteckick' warning is misleading because reports actually do nothing.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Also 'injustified voteckick' warning is misleading because reports actually do nothing.

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How do you know reporting does nothing? If there is some kind of action taken SE won't tell you because they don't release that kind of information.

Vote kick systems should really punish unfair kicks much more severely than they do (i.e., lengthy account suspensions if GMs determine it was unjustified); but I won't go too far down that path today.

What I would really, truly, like to see is a change to majority is required to kick players from the group. In a 4-player dungeon, as we all know, only two players are required to vote yes for the kick. It would be really nice to see it increased to three, otherwise it fails.

4 man dungeons should require all 3 players to vote yes in order to pass a kick. When you queue with a friend and get paired with another group of two, the team that initiates the kick wins, and the other team has to start back over at the beginning of the dungeon. So if you are in a situation where you suspect a kick, your best bet is to kick first, which is absolutely horrible design.

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Originally Posted by Miste

How do you know reporting does nothing? If there is some kind of action taken SE won't tell you because they don't release that kind of information.

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I know because many people reported other people after votekicked then told them in /tell they are reported if on the same server (you see such stories in FC chat sometimes). They were not approached by GMs and got no any warning after being reported.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

I know because many people reported other people after votekicked then told them in /tell they are reported if on the same server (you see such stories in FC chat sometimes). They were not approached by GMs and got no any warning after being reported.

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For one, don't ever send tells or message the player you are reporting. It's bad form to threaten them no matter what they did. You are supposed to report then blacklist. The GMs will even tell you not to initiate any communication with the player.

Two, what were the reasons they got kicked? Was it for something actually punishable? Or was it just different play styles and two people unfortunately wanted them gone?

Three, how do you know the person you reported it was their first offense? SE isn't going to ban people for one misstep. It would be very bad for business. They may just put a silent warning on the account and if the person gets reported again then they may take a different action.

Four, how do you know they were not approached by GMs? You are going by the word of someone you reported and you also sent them tells to ASK if they got reprimanded? I mean they could easily lie and if they really were unjustly kicking people for no reason then likely lying wouldn't be much of a stretch for them. Not to mention I mean you did report them so they likely wouldn't be in a friendly mood to just tell you the details would they?

I see a lot of people screaming "vote kick abuse!", but the LGM post actually commented on that, so I'll include it here.

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In general, abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered to be a grief tactics violation, which falls under section 3.2 in the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement. However, it is only after a GM investigation that it can be determined to be a violation of the rules.

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In layman's terms, unless there is clear proof that you were kicked for malicious reasons, it will probably be considered valid. I also agree with Miste on the point that behaving in an uncivil way before or after your report is only going to harm your claim. When the GMs decide that your complaint is a "player dispute" they will not act until they receive enough unrelated reports to justify action.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I have close to 7,000 duties on my main alone not counting my 5 fully leveled alts and I can say that people are rarely kicked in duty finder in my experience unless they AFK or DC. I would venture to say those who see a lot more kicks may in fact be the ones initiating the kicks or are talking about party finder and duties like clears for deltascape and the like where people join who have no clears or who are seriously under performing.

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Agreed.

Even if you end up with a pre-made group in DF. They have no good reason to kick you.

I personally think kicking for different playstyle should not be allowed. It is getting abused a lot. SE should look into their policy and update it.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I personally think kicking for different playstyle should not be allowed. It is getting abused a lot. SE should look into their policy and update it.

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Update it to what though?

If they don't allow kicks for different play styles I don't think you realize what would happen....you would get punished for removing any player even if one single player was forcing their play style on 3 others who didn't want it.

Like the tank situation I mentioned. The tank wants to speed run and pulls multiple groups. The healer feels stressed and doesn't like it so they ask them to just do single pulls please and the two DPS agree with healer. The tank ignores this and continues to multipull.

They can't kick the tank because it would be a differing play styles issue so if they do they'll all get punished for abusing the system. What now? Vote abandon and force everyone to requeue and wait even longer due to one person who didn't want to compromise in group content? Doesn't seem fair.

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Originally Posted by Miste

If they don't allow kicks for different play styles I don't think you realize what would happen....you would get punished for removing any player even if one single player was forcing their play style on 3 others who didn't want it.

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Forcing people to do something that they don't want to is a kind of harassment. They are not abusing anything in this situation.

In your example, if they ask the tank nicely but he keeps on ignoring them and kept forcing his style. Just kick him for harassment.

In the end, you want people to be more cooperative rather than selfish. This is one of the ways to make sure that players adjust to their party needs.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Do you have any suggestions on how they would fix it though?

Because they are going to get reports from people who got kicked because they refused to compromise to the majority.

If one person wants to RP /walk through the dungeon and stop every few mins taking screenshots of things and the 3 others don't and they kick the person walking then....they should get punished for kicking for differing play styles?

What about a tank who is trying to speed run and the 3 others don't want to? If they kick the tank for differing play styles.... do they get punished for kicking him?

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The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Forcing people to do something that they don't want to is a kind of harassment.

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But that then means you'd be harassing the tank by forcing him to do smaller pulls (which he doesn't want) and then you'd kick him if he doesn't comply to your harassment.

Wow. You've literally justified mobbing there. Gee, you should really think that through again. Playstyle differences aren't harassment.

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Originally Posted by Miste

They can't kick the tank because it would be a differing play styles issue so if they do they'll all get punished for abusing the system. What now? Vote abandon and force everyone to requeue and wait even longer due to one person who didn't want to compromise in group content? Doesn't seem fair.

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The funniest part about the all or nothing vote is that could lead to more vote abandons or healers/tanks "disconnecting", which would make dps queues even worse lol

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

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If 1 person wants to only hit blizzard thats their prerogative. If the party isnt on board with that and doesn't want them there, starting a vote is theirs.The party shouldn't be punished and HAVE to carry dead weight. If they are ok with it, then they can drag them along. If they aren't, they can hope the next person queue spits up is better.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Forcing people to do something that they don't want to is a kind of harassment. They are not doing abusing anything in this situation.
In your example, if they ask the tank nicely but he keeps on ignoring them and doing his thing. Just kick him for harassment.

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Uh...you might want to think a bit about what you just said.

If forcing someone to do something they don't want to is harassment then the tank in my example could claim the other 3 are harassing him that they are trying to get him to change his playstyle.

So under your definition of harassment being "forcing people to do something they don't want to" then both sides are harassing each other....then both sides are guilty in this case.

It would be hypocritical to claim harassment on one side while the other is harassing as well.

Also I very much disagree that just playing a video game how you personally want to is harassment. Like...harassment is a pretty strong negative word, just because a DPS for example is playing very poorly and I don't like how he is playing I am not gonna claim they are harassing me just for playing how they want. That would be ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Or an option "Uncooperative" can be added.

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This is the same as now. Any and all play style differences will just use "Uncooperative".

This changes nothing at all.


You have to look at the big picture of the reason why SE allows "different playstyle" kicks. It is because they cannot be biased and tell the community what is "acceptable" play styles and what isn't.

We as a community have to deal with our own disputes when the dispute is entirely centered on play style because SE cannot take sides.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

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This argument just defeats itself, because you are forgetting that people who don't want to be kicked for possible play style clash also have the option to only queue with friends or join/make a PF group to avoid people kicking them for their play style.

So what point were you making exactly?

You didn't answer my question to you either so I'll ask again. How do you propose they fix the vote kick system in a logical and fair way?

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Originally Posted by Zojha

But that then means you'd be harassing the tank by forcing him to do smaller pulls (which he doesn't want) and then you'd kick him if he doesn't comply to your harassment.

Wow. You've literally justified mobbing there. Gee, you should really think that through again. Playstyle differences aren't harassment.

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Yes, you are correct, playstyle difference is not harassment. It is FORCING others to play your way that is bad here.

Always go with group vote. If tank wanted to do a large pull but everyone else said no, why would he still do it?
It will be a waste of time followed by wipes if the healer wasn't able to keep him up. And in the end, eventually, the party will kick him because he forced his way.

Tank in this situation needs to use his mind. He is not a victim of the healer and dps. It is part of his role to do what is best for the party. And the party said exactly what they needed of him. What did he do? Ignored them.

If you remember that tank complaining on the forums that he kept getting kicked from multiple DF groups, and it turned out because he never listened to his healers?
And what did people tell him? Fix your attitude and do what is best for your party.

Now, I will pass kicking for different playstyle but my point is that it gets abused a lot. Which is the complaint here.
If it is an issue, simply replace it with something else or fix it.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

If it is an issue, simply replace it with something else or fix it.

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Yeah a few of you keep saying this, but like I said: How?

Any suggestions on what they could change to make the system more fair than now? Because I cannot personally think of a way to fix it to be more fair than it is now and I've thought about it a lot and SE has a whole staff that can brain storm this....if there was a more fair way to design the system don't you think they would have done it after 4 years?

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Originally Posted by Miste

Yeah a few of you keep saying this, but like I said: How?

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At the moment all I can think of is removing that option completely.

This will leave the player with 4 options.

1 - Leave duty and take the penalty.
2 - Be more comparative with the party.
3 - Sit/Stand and do nothing.
4 - Fake DC.

No.3 They can kick him with AFK option.
No.4 They can kick him with the offline option.

At least this prevents people from abusing the system and kicking players that did absolutely nothing wrong.

Though like I said before, I have never seen anyone abusing it personally. But this topic keeps coming up on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Yeah a few of you keep saying this, but like I said: How?

Any suggestions on what they could change to make the system more fair than now? Because I cannot personally think of a way to fix it to be more fair than it is now and I've thought about it a lot and SE has a whole staff that can brain storm this....if there was a more fair way to design the system don't you think they would have done it after 4 years?

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Honestly I think they should just list "difference in playstyle" as an option. If GMs already accept it as a valid reason to kick, might as well add it in.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

At the moment all I can think of is removing that option completely.

This will leave the player with 4 options.

1 - Leaving duty and taking the penalty.
2 - Be more comparative with the party.
3 - Sit/Stand and do nothing.
4 - Fake DC.

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You see this as more fair? I don't. I see more problems with this especially since #2 you mention....if people cannot kick the person there is no reason to be more cooperative if they don't feel like it. Trolls will likely take advantage of being immune to being kicked from groups. They can play however they want and not get kicked just to troll and end up making the 3 other people in the group waste their game time.

A DPS that just auto attacks, a healer who doesn't heal, a tank who doesn't tank? Can't kick them! I guess you are okay with taking a 30 minute lockout to your personal play time due to someone else trolling or playing so incompetently that you cannot complete the duty even if you tried?? I am not. Also one person trolling makes three other people have to leave and requeue with one of them getting a penalty to boot. Sounds ridiculous.

One person wasting three other player's game time............and nothing you can do about it except "not play the game" by AFKing or fake d/cing or leaving the duty and getting 30 min penalty and not being able to complete what you wanted/needed to complete. Doesn't sound fair or a good idea to me.

Oh, and before you say "it's okay to kick a troll", if the person trolling doesn't openly admit to trolling then under your new rules of not being able to vote kick for "differing play styles" it means if you kick them without knowing you will get punished if he reports you. SE cannot punish the troll without some kind of proof in chat logs that the trolling was intentional.

The way the system is now isn't perfect because it is impossible to make it perfect, but the system now how it is negatively affects the least amount of players. Again majority > minority. Three people is more than one and I asked for a way to make the system "more fair" than it is now. Letting one player cause three others to have to get 30 min lockouts and/or having to requeue and wait in line again is not fair.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Honestly I think they should just list "difference in playstyle" as an option. If GMs already accept it as a valid reason to kick, might as well add it in.

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I mean yeah they could I suppose, but I am okay that it isn't there as a visual option in-game personally. I mean I don't want to promote kicking people for that reason, it is just a reason that has to be used sometimes if there is a clash in opinions and people are not willing to compromise when it is necessary.