1.20a tomorrow :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yves

I missed that. Link me that! Seriously, I need a good gigglepee.

---

you dont remember kilta! lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

could be worse

remember our resident expert who had yet to even play the game? but knew it all due to youtube?

---

I learned how to trouble shoot why my dishwasher was disposing it's waste water through the airgap on my sink from watching youtube!
Turns out the the people that owned the house before me didn't knock out a waste water seal on the sinks garbage disposal. So all the water was backing up and coming out the airgap. The youtube plumber guy said thats the #1 reason why that happens. Worked like a charm.

But i'm not calling myself a professional plumber.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

The majority of an average MMO players experience is end game. Most players spend 1% of there time leveling a character or class, and 99% of there time after that.

---

That's a random figure. Maybe that's how you play, but you have no way of knowing if that's accurate for the entire playerbase, let alone all MMO players. In fact, I knew many many people in FFXI that played constantly and never got to level cap, let alone set foot in the endgame arena. Even in WoW, the MMO that started the 'Life begins at endgame' mentality, gives you thousands of quests and dungeons for leveling content (which means they realize players want fun along the way). Yes, they focus heavily on endgame raiding. But that doesn't mean that's where everyone prefers to spend their time. In fact, a lot of people get burned out on endgame (myself included) and prefer to take a break and focus on other activities (including leveling alts). For me, the meat and potatoes really lies in questing and story, which this game is just too lean on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

The fact that you can literally level a class in 3 days with little effort (Not even being sarcastic) makes it hard to take anyone seriously who is max 25 in there highest class. Something anyone can literally do solo in an hour.

You literally have the equavalent of what someone can do in 1 day put into your character right now. That not only makes it hard to take anything you say about the gameplay seriously, but it makes it seem foolish to do so.

---

Actually, if you look at my history, you'll see I leveled my CNJ back when SP gains were based on contribution and were sporadic. Playing with my husband's PGL who jumped in and killed things quickly meant that he 'stole' all my SP and we always had to do an hour or two of extra grinding on top of a night of leves just so I could catch up to him.

I leveled my CNJ back when it was actually painful and took months.

In contrast, I leveled my THM after the changes and had WTF-face when it took me like three days. I would actually prefer some middle ground to the leveling curve as I think it's too fast now, but that's another topic altogether.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

Then add in what the poster ahead of me pointed out, that you don't have a mellee leveled, they are all literally at 0 level, and you want to chime in on that aspect of gameplay, now your just making yourself look foolish.

---

Stood over my husband's shoulder and watched him, then jumped in and tried it myself. Both of us were sorely disappointed.

But if taking up a weapon on a few melee classes is what it takes to be taken seriously, I have no problem doing that. Still got a week and a half before I shelve this game for nine months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

you dont remember kilta! lol

---

/facepalm Oh, Gods, Kilta Firelotus. If nothing else, she gave people a place to focus their frustration. Yeah, at least I actually play. And I'm brave enough to post with my real character, not an alt, like some (*cough* Jennestia *cough*).

You did Con 1-20 in 3 months before the normalized EXP gains. and 21-25 after normalized gains which took you 7 months.

(i suspect you took a break. I did too around the same time)

you did Thm 1-5 before EXP revisions and then 6-20 after which took you a total of 10 months.

In fact,it looks like you haven't done much of anything EXP wise since July, which was 5 months ago.

It really looks like you're logging in to check out patches and do seasonal events which is fine. But you still lack the experience (playtime) to really form a well rounded opinion of how game mechanics work now. A lot of people on day 1 of patch 1.20 let out a collective "WTF" when it came to skill revisions. Now after the initial shock people are coming around to it. Thats what happens when you experience the game.

So sit down and play a while. Level a class to 50 then come back and tell us how you feel.

Currently I have Thm & Con @ lvl 40. From my experience playing those classes I feel CC (crowd control) should be issued as a skill much earlier in the game. I've had PTs wipe from a bad pull, or adds which if us mages had some form of CC we would have survived, but sadly CC doesn't come into play until lv 42 thm and 50 Con.

My experience from having 3 lv 50 melee classes is that not having spammable AOE WS, we have to use different tactics to manage mass pulls. And now that combos are our sources of damage dealing you keep fairly active during those fights and makes melee fun to play.

Those opinions I've formed from playing the game. Comparing it to other patches along the way, keeping an open mind to what it means for the future of the game. And how it effects our current gameplay.

So tell me how melee is broken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

So sit down and play a while. Level a class to 50 then come back and tell us how you feel.

---

First off, thank you for a well-presented point instead of jumping in with insults.

I do understand what you're saying, that you believe I haven't given the combat system a chance. Trust me, I want to love this game. Otherwise, I wouldn't still be here. I'm providing feedback in the hopes that this game will improve. Your assessment is correct, I have taken some breaks from the game. You pretty much have to, lest the frustration get the better of you.

But what you're saying is that you may have to possibly wait until cap until combat makes sense? Those who enjoy it seem to be level 50 players, which tells me that it's highly tuned to cap and endgame. Yes, that may be the eventual goal, but I have serious reservations about how new players will receive this game if that's how combat will remain into 2.0. How long must new players wait to have fun? 30? 40? 50? That's simply too long.

No, I don't know how melee combat feels at level 50. But I do know that, at least until mid-range, you feel like your hands are tied.

Pretty sure this update is implementing the Achievements tracker also

At the following time, we will be performing maintenance on FINAL FANTASY XIV to implement patch 1.20a. During this period, FINAL FANTASY XIV will be unavailable.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

* Clients will update automatically upon launch after release of the patch.

* Patch download rates may vary depending on server congestion.

* Comprehensive patch notes will be posted on the FINAL FANTASY XIV Forums below.

[Patch Notes for 1.20a]

- 6 new zones
- Access to Ishguard
- 5 new 45+ Dungeons.
- 4 new uber HNMs.
- Level cap raised to 55.
- 3 Primal Fights
- New chain quest to access Crystal Tower (aka Dynamis 2.0), need to be Lvl55 in 1 of each of the disciples of war/magic/land/hand to gain access.
- 2 new classes. Arcanist and Musketeer.
- Moogle prerequisite hotfix and Thaumaturge, Conjurer weapon hotfix.
- and a partridge in a pear tree!


[Date & Time]
Dec. 27, 2011 from 1:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m. (PST)

* The completion time may be subject to change.

[Affected Service]
- FINAL FANTASY XIV

I think they left out the moogle exploit hotfix by accident. Maybe 1.20b?

This thread is terrible, and people wonder why people double post the same topic...

-I hope 1.20a fixes the silly moogle bug.
Maybe they'll throw in a little something to shoot down PLing?

Ah i can dream...

They're probably adding more trees on the way to Turning Leaf.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

No, I don't know how melee combat feels at level 50. But I do know that, at least until mid-range, you feel like your hands are tied.

---

Sorry, you don't.. You may have some idea about low-mid level mage play, but you haven't even equipped a melee weapon at all. You cannot have any idea how melees are doing after the patch without actually playing with them.

Please, buy a lv1 marauder weapon (first combo needs no positioning at all), get it AT LEAST to level 10, start using the damn combo system and your first positional weaponskill, try getting into a duo or something (light party would be ideal, but I know how hard it is to get a low level party), THEN come back and say melee is broken. Before that point, your opnion can be safely ignored.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Sorry, you don't.. You may have some idea about low-mid level mage play, but you haven't even equipped a melee weapon at all. You cannot have any idea how melees are doing after the patch without actually playing with them.

---

Guess you missed the part where I said this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

Stood over my husband's shoulder and watched him, then jumped in and tried it myself. Both of us were sorely disappointed.

---

So, yes, I have actually tried it out first hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

Guess you missed the part where I said this:



So, yes, I have actually tried it out first hand.

---

Kay, questions:

How many minutes did you spend before proclaiming melee is broken? What's the level of the class you played? Did you try to combo at all? Did you get into a party? Or did you play for 15 minutes, your husband said "See, it's broken!" and you agreed with him and never touched a melee again?

Because my experience with melee classes after the patch has been very enjoyable thus far. I've played solo, light parties, guildleves, tanking and shooting arrows at Ifrit, with levels ranging from 1 to 35, plus archer 50. No offense here, but I'm sure I have far more experience with those classes than you, and I'm still a complete noob when it comes to melee classes. In my humble opnion, they are far from broken.

I'm sure you may have different opnions and that's completely fine and pretty possible, but please tell me you have actually experienced at least some time with a melee class at all. And while we are at it, care to point what feels so bad about them and what you would change? You know, some feedback for our dear developers trying to satisfy yet another consumer?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

And while we are at it, care to point what feels so bad about them and what you would change? You know, some feedback for our dear developers trying to satisfy yet another consumer?

---

I have been giving very specific feedback about what I feel is one of the most basic issues. Not just saying, "This sucks, change it." Probably posted it about 10+ times around the forums.

My biggest issue, one that cannot be circumvented, is the fact that you can no longer use any abilities to actively initiate combat. You pull out your weapon, you auto-attack, you watch and you wait for your abilities to light up. It feels non-interactive and slow. The only advice I'm getting in that regard is the Lancer Invigorate ability. But you don't get it until level 14.

I truly believe that someone new to a class and, more importantly, new players in 2.0, will only give a class until roughly level 10 to judge if it feels right (in fact, you've suggested I try out all melees to level 10 before I judge). Plus, even though you get the most out of this game by cross-classing, should it be 100% essential to do so to be able to even play and enjoy combat at all?

I can just imagine this conversation:

New Player: "My Pugilist sucks, I can't even use any abilities at the start of combat."
FFXIV Vet: "Well, you need to go level Lancer to 14, first."
New Player: "...."

Each class needs to have at least one non-TP based ability, right at level 1, that they can use so they're not just watching their character and doing nothing input-wise. No, I'm not asking for the removal of AA or for the stamina bar to come back. Absolutely not. Hated the stamina bar. I don't want 1 1 1 1 1 spam. I think they've made some improvements in 1.20. Combos are fun (I really loved combat in Aion and how it utilized chain skills, which are somewhat similar). I like how casters are more streamlined. But melee doing nothing but watching and waiting at the beginning of combat was a step backward and it greatly overshadows the improvements, to me.

I think Physic said it quite well in the other 1.20 thread. I've highlighted the parts that I feel are most relevant:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

i think the point your missing is the current battle is heavily tuned to being max level. It is really bad mid level, or early leveling if you want to call it that. You simply dont have the tools to do your job well early, you probably have 1 combo, and on certain jobs its a not that useful combo, you most likely do not have any of the moves that give you synergy, and you probably dont have all the cross class abilities that might prove useful, but even if you did, you can only equip like2 of them.

One of the reasons you think combat is great and makes sense is because you have everything 50, and you get to see a total package of how its all tuned.
This is one of teh reasons most games give you skills early and power them up as you go, because for the total picture of the job to make sense, you may need some skills earlier, even if they are weakened, like pug needs mp management abilities, blm needs convert etc.

Also having nothing you can do besides wait for teh beginning of teh fight for every melee class is a bad design, people like to initiate combat, possibly at an advantage, they need to abandon the do nothing until you build up power for 4/5 battle jobs (and the only one who can take initiative is archer, and it doesnt get barrage till like, what 34?), its boring, and even though once you get going its ok, its not ok early, and while invig is great, the only person who will have invigorate starting off is lancer.

The abilities and combat is poorly tuned for the ride up, and it needs more starting abilities even if they arent tp earning/based.

the system has some real strengths, and at 50 when you see the full picture of jobs, its generally pretty good, but why does the game actually start at cap? where is the fun before you get to cap? how fun will it be when they have jobs and you cant use bloodbath, invigorate, cure etc? (sure you could level them, but if you want to main monk, you are only really going to want to invest in whatever will actually be useful from level 30 onwards)

In all honesty i feel like the combat designs blindspot is being balanced for having all skills and levels already done.

---

Quote:

---

i think the point your missing is the current battle is heavily tuned to being max level. It is really bad mid level, or early leveling if you want to call it that. You simply dont have the tools to do your job well early, you probably have 1 combo, and on certain jobs its a not that useful combo, you most likely do not have any of the moves that give you synergy, and you probably dont have all the cross class abilities that might prove useful, but even if you did, you can only equip like2 of them.

One of the reasons you think combat is great and makes sense is because you have everything 50, and you get to see a total package of how its all tuned.
This is one of teh reasons most games give you skills early and power them up as you go, because for the total picture of the job to make sense, you may need some skills earlier, even if they are weakened, like pug needs mp management abilities, blm needs convert etc.

Also having nothing you can do besides wait for teh beginning of teh fight for every melee class is a bad design, people like to initiate combat, possibly at an advantage, they need to abandon the do nothing until you build up power for 4/5 battle jobs (and the only one who can take initiative is archer, and it doesnt get barrage till like, what 34?), its boring, and even though once you get going its ok, its not ok early, and while invig is great, the only person who will have invigorate starting off is lancer.

The abilities and combat is poorly tuned for the ride up, and it needs more starting abilities even if they arent tp earning/based.

the system has some real strengths, and at 50 when you see the full picture of jobs, its generally pretty good, but why does the game actually start at cap? where is the fun before you get to cap? how fun will it be when they have jobs and you cant use bloodbath, invigorate, cure etc? (sure you could level them, but if you want to main monk, you are only really going to want to invest in whatever will actually be useful from level 30 onwards)

In all honesty i feel like the combat designs blindspot is being balanced for having all skills and levels already done.

---

That quote is so untrue, Also quoting the guy that has been piss poor about the battle system since the stamina system was removed is the wrong person to quote cause he has been hating all changes since then. The melee classes are fine low~mid lvl cause i levled my mrd 10~14 in less than 30 mins combos work fine for all low lvl classes. Even when solo you can still hit combo's to the side of the mob w/o stunning them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firon

That quote is so untrue, Also quoting the guy that has been piss poor about the battle system since the stamina system was removed is the wrong person to quote cause he has been hating all changes since then. The melee classes are fine low~mid lvl cause i levled my mrd 10~14 in less than 30 mins combos work fine for all low lvl classes. Even when solo you can still hit combo's to the side of the mob w/o stunning them.

---

I think playing a melee class solo or tanking and using the directional combo attacks is the most fun I've had in game to date. Finally a chance to use SE's own animation lock against their mobs!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

you do realize what sub patches are for right?


no big bang

just leftovers that werent done in time for 1.20 and bug fixes

---

Isnt there was Beastmen tribes for 1.19a dont think its just fixin minor bugs lol

But every class learns at least one non-TP based ability before level 6. And level 6 takes like, 20 minutes to reach even for a new player. Btw, only lancer takes that much to learn a non-TP skill, however even their level 1 weaponskill has positional bonus. The Level 2, by the way, has a bonus when used from behind. Guess how you should initiate combat whenever you have spill over TP from the previous fight?

Now, we can all argue that there's no TP-free attack ability, which is true. However, why exactly is that "bad"? Even at low levels, when fighting an even match mob, you need 3 attacks tops to reach 1.000TP, which then can be used to combo into two weaponskills at lower levels, 3 when higher. Also, many enemies have skills that can be avoided, so if you are just standing still and doing nothing while charging up TP, you are likely doing it wrong. Yes, server lag screws that up currently, but this should be much more important (and easier to do) when 2.0 hits. And Yes, Invigorate exists and this game *does* encourage us to level multiple classes. Heck, they even made 90% of the cross classable skills obtainable before level 30, and some of the most useful ones (Second Wind, Invigorate, Cure, Sentinel) are relatively low level.

Also, when leveling up normally, more often than not you will end battles with extra TP to spare - so, most of the time, you *can* start a battle right away with a weaponskill

I do not stand still waiting on TP with my level 10 marauder. I'm always buffing up, trying to use Brutal Swing from the sides for the extra damage, using Heavy Swing => Skull Sunder combo every 10 seconds or so, trying to avoid a few enemy attacks, etc, etc. I may not be always proactively using skills all the time, but I'm not just standing still either.

FFXIV does take a different approach when it comes to skill usage. You are not supposed to trounce everything with skills all the time, specially not at the beginning of a fight. Sure, you can burn up your MP as a mage, but you will need to recover afterwards. Melees, however, have to build up a resource beforehand - and then are able to use several skills in succession via combos, before having to rebuff, evade enemy attacks and ready up for another chain.

It's a somewhat different philosophy and surely there will be people wishing for a much faster combat, but then it's a matter of personal taste and not exactly a flaw within the game. Not saying the current system has no flaws, but it's far from being broken and completely dull.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kugata

Isnt there was Beastmen tribes for 1.19a dont think its just fixin minor bugs lol

---

This was just a leftovers that weren't done in time for 1.19

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Now, we can all argue that there's no TP-free attack ability, which is true.

---

Okay, now we're on the same page. Don't you agree it's much better to be civil than say someone's opinions are worthless and should be ignored?

This is the heart of the melee combat issue for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

However, why exactly is that "bad"? Even at low levels, when fighting an even match mob, you need 3 attacks tops to reach 1.000TP, which then can be used to combo into two weaponskills at lower levels, 3 when higher.

---

I think you just answered your own question. Three auto-attacks before you can do anything. In an MMO, that's an eternity.

I understand what you're saying. That you should be moving and buffing and using reactive skills in the meantime. And now cross-classing isn't an option, it's a must. But it doesn't take away from the fact that melee now cannot actively initiate combat with an attack ability unless you have a level 14 Lancer skill or TP stored from a previous fight. And the reason that is bad is that it makes combat feel non-interactive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

FFXIV does take a different approach when it comes to skill usage. You are not supposed to trounce everything with skills all the time, specially not at the beginning of a fight. Sure, you can burn up your MP as a mage, but you will need to recover afterwards. Melees, however, have to build up a resource beforehand - and then are able to use several skills in succession via combos, before having to rebuff, evade enemy attacks and ready up for another chain.

It's a somewhat different philosophy and surely there will be people wishing for a much faster combat, but then it's a matter of personal taste and not exactly a flaw within the game. Not saying the current system has no flaws, but it's far from being broken and completely dull.

---

It's certainly a different approach, one that's definitely not for me. I thought combat was too slow before. Now it feels even slower. It's worse than FFXI, and I didn't think that was possible. It's like being stuck in a Goku power-up when I just want to jump into the fray. >.<

I'm happy for the people who like this style of combat. I will, however, be genuinely surprised if it appeals to more than the niche market this game caters to that grows smaller and smaller as time goes on.

My husband and I had been on the fence about subscribing come Jan 6th, but 1.20 was the nail in the coffin. I'll continue to watch the patch notes and hope that the dev team make changes that restore some non-TP active attack abilities. If not, no matter how many good things come in 2.0, it's hard to play if you don't enjoy combat.

"slow here, slow there" it's really a matter of perception. I still play ffxi sometimes, and believe me : right now every class reach haste cap very easely, and the game it's MUCH slower of ffxiv right now. Take off all haste, store tp and multi-hit weapons and you'll see an even slower game than before.
If 3 AA it's slow for you, look back to wow: the days where you waited 5 stack of sunder armor before even engage aren't so far

I like how everyone is trying to change the opinion of one person (two if you count Row's hubby) who actually plays the game and wishes well for its future. When 2.0 is released, are we going to knock door-to-door on the homes of new players telling them that the game is good?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

If 3 AA it's slow for you, look back to wow: the days where you waited 5 stack of sunder armor before even engage aren't so far

---

The difference is, that's a tank using a threat-generating ability. I know a lot of people who hated playing Warriors in WoW because of the overly complicated abilities and stance-dances. Warriors were redone so that they're much more simple and fun to play, now.

In FFXIV, all melee classes now abide by this setup. Not just one. Not as easy to change to a different class if you don't like it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rubicon

I like how everyone is trying to change the opinion of one person (two if you count Row's hubby) who actually plays the game and wishes well for its future. When 2.0 is released, are we going to knock door-to-door on the homes of new players telling them that the game is good?

---

Thanks, Rubicon. I'm not sitting here giving feedback because I'm a troll or I have nothing better to do. I sincerely do wish for a game that's fun for many people.

Sub patch leftovers are nothing to really build "suspense" about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

Thanks, Rubicon. I'm not sitting here giving feedback because I'm a troll or I have nothing better to do. I sincerely do wish for a game that's fun for many people.

---

So what ? we can be in dislike with your feedback until we're not insulting you, don't ? This count for Rubicon too.
I just don't think 3 AA it's much of a downtime, if you keep in mind you need to wait only at begin of fight.

Why would you not use a buff, debuff, or defensive ability at the start of the fight instead of just sitting there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Murugan

Why would you not use a buff, debuff, or defensive ability at the start of the fight instead of just sitting there?

---

Wouldn't you rather have the choice of attacks or buffs instead of attacks being taken away?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

I understand what you're saying. That you should be moving and buffing and using reactive skills in the meantime. And now cross-classing isn't an option, it's a must.

---

Hardly. In fact, they made it so cross classing is not that important as before, and made it far easier to get the really useful skills. Before, you had to level several melee classes to learn plenty of buffs and different weaponskills, and the less is said about Quickstride, Chameleon, Sentinel or Cure III, the better. A Gladiator was pretty much forced to level Marauder and Pugilist to tank

Nowadays, unless you *really* want to, you can easily do a reasonably good job for most of the game just learning cure (losing all 5 minutes of your life to do so), and if you want other skills, you can learn most of the useful ones before level 20.

If they dumb down the cross classing any further, they should just do away with the system entirely and lose one of the (imo) best points of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

But it doesn't take away from the fact that melee now cannot actively initiate combat with an attack ability unless you have a level 14 Lancer skill or TP stored from a previous fight. And the reason that is bad is that it makes combat feel non-interactive

---

Combat suddenly becomes non-interactive because you're not using an attack skill all the time?

I refer to my previous post: Most of the time, you should be moving around, buffing up, evading moves and etc for optmal performance. Selecting >awesomeweaponskill II isn't the only kind of interaction possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rubicon

I like how everyone is trying to change the opinion of one person (two if you count Row's hubby) who actually plays the game and wishes well for its future. When 2.0 is released, are we going to knock door-to-door on the homes of new players telling them that the game is good?

---

Not trying to change, we are just discussing. She's telling her opnions and ideas, everyone else is telling theirs, we all are showing up where we disagree, a dev might even get an interesting idea of how a few of the players think a battle system should work....

This is exactly what forums are used for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

Wouldn't you rather have the choice of attacks or buffs instead of attacks being taken away?

---

I would rather have genuine strategic options during battle. If they could fit a no TP attack and balance it with the current availability of utility then I'm all for it. I imagine in the future as we get more abilities we will get new offensive abilities for all melee, but simply putting back in pre 1.20 basic attacks is no answer at all.

Spamming abilities does not make for fun combat. Adding in attacks without the proper balance does not add to anything, but instead takes away the usefulness of many other abilities (don't bother using ability X just mash 1). You say your husband "just sits there", and that is the problem. I have never felt that was necessitated by the current combat system, so I think he needs to adjust his playstyle to be more effective. His problem is not "I'm not doing enough damage" it is merely "I'm not doing enough things", and he could solve that by doing more things which would add to his overall contribution to the battle.

I just wanted to say I enjoy the combat system as it is today and every patch makes it more and more enjoyable. I disagree with people who say its to slow because I enjoy keeping track of whats happening rather than keeping track of which special attack timer is up so I can spam them again.

I feel like the new system gives a tactical advantage to groups who like to control fights over zerg them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Now, we can all argue that there's no TP-free attack ability, which is true.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

Okay, now we're on the same page. Don't you agree it's much better to be civil than say someone's opinions are worthless and should be ignored?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

My biggest issue, one that cannot be circumvented, is the fact that you can no longer use any abilities to actively initiate combat.

---

Now see, this is where I take issue. There are TP-free attack ability, again if you had any experience with mellee classes, you may or may not know this. There are at least 5.

Also, its not so much that people are calling your opinion worthless, they are calling it flat out invalid. Frankly with good reason, the vast majority of you post here have flat out wrong informaion. Meaning you clearly do not have a working knowledge of the subject you wish to lecture on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

Stood over my husband's shoulder and watched him.

---

SO the heck what? I watched my wife make an ice sculpture once to. That by al means does not mean I have the experience or knowledge to go to an ice sculpture forums and post lectures.

Your post contain misinformation after misinformation after misinformation. its not your opinion thats getting you personally attacked. Its the fact that you do not appear to know what you are talking about that gets you attacked. Then you further attempt to defend you post of misinformation. Its a Fact that there are at least 5 abilities to initiate combat with 0 TP.

No one is telling you to shut up and get out

We are telling you to get a clue or shut up nd get out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karbine

I just wanted to say I enjoy the combat system as it is today and every patch makes it more and more enjoyable. I disagree with people who say its to slow because I enjoy keeping track of whats happening rather than keeping track of which special attack timer is up so I can spam them again.

I feel like the new system gives a tactical advantage to groups who like to control fights over zerg them.

---

Exactly, this is why the combat system is absolutely heading in the right direction. Now give us the new Battle Regimen system, and all those nice Job abilities. I'm looking forward to them, and this direction is exactly why I am playing this game over every other MMO on the market. If I wanted to wear down 3-4 buttons on my keyboard with constant repetitious mashing and little critical thought applied I have a great number of options available to me in the MMO market over the past 5 years.

Finally here we have an MMO that is pushing players to put some thought back into MMORPG combat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

Now see, this is where I take issue. There are TP-free attack ability, again if you had any experience with mellee classes, you may or may not know this. There are at least 5.

---

Uhh...

There are no TP free attack skills, bro. The closest we have are the reactionary skills, and they still use 250/500TP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Uhh...

There are no TP free attack skills, bro. The closest we have are the reactionary skills, and they still use 250/500TP.

---

You sir are wrong.

Example of one
Light Shot
Optimal Level : 1
Delivers a ranged atack

Also, there are 4 more that are avaliable cross class to any class, that I can think of off the top of my head, I would have to log in game to check if there are more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

You sir are wrong.

Example of one
Light Shot
Optimal Level : 1
Delivers a ranged atack

Also, there are 4 more that are avaliable cross class to any class, that I can think of off the top of my head, I would have to log in game to check if there are more.

---

...

Light Shot is the archer regular shot, it doesn't really count. All the other skills you are looking for are likely old Guild Mark abilities, those have either been removed or became weaponskills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

...

Light Shot is the archer regular shot, it doesn't really count. All the other skills you are looking for are likely old Guild Mark abilities, those have either been removed or became weaponskills.

---

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, how dose is not count ? It initiated battle with no training point cost, and its on a DoW. That fits the 2 pre-req of the debate in which you and another garunteed previously do not exist. I also know for a fact that I have 4, none TP requiring abilitied avaliable to my PGL, MRD, and GLD, that are initial attacks.

No sir, I am not mistaken, Nothing I refere to is "most likely" guildmarks or anything else.

Perhaps some folks need to get in game and use some of the abilities , check out some of what crosses classes, and learn the system a little more, before attempting to educate the community. At this point all thats occuring is the purpetuation of misinformation.

Pro tip: Throwing weapons are your friends. The throw action is outside of the equip able action limits.
Yea i can see where low level combat would be pretty slow. Good thing that this phase of a players game time relatively short.

As far as whats coming today, probably nothing to get excited about. How ever bayohne did drop a bit of a cryptic statement in the announcement that the SeA offices were on break until January 2nd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

I'm sure the upcoming patch 1.20a will keep you all busy (and posting...) in our absence and we look forward to getting back into the saddle in the new year!

---

Kind of makes you wonder. Damn that malboro.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Griss

Pro tip: Throwing weapons are your friends. The throw action is outside of the equip able action limits.
Yea i can see where low level combat would be pretty slow. Good thing that this phase of a players game time relatively short.

As far as whats coming today, probably nothing to get excited about. How ever bayohne did drop a bit of a cryptic statement in the announcement that the SeA offices were on break until January 2nd.



Kind of makes you wonder. Damn that malboro.

---

Always sticking his tentacles where they're not wanted!

But ya, I'm not sure if that's a general statement about how no matter what SE does, people will complain about it ad nauseam or if it's a I know something you don't know.

I haven't messed with throwing weapons, do they generate much TP?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

You sir are wrong.

Example of one
Light Shot
Optimal Level : 1
Delivers a ranged atack

Also, there are 4 more that are avaliable cross class to any class, that I can think of off the top of my head, I would have to log in game to check if there are more.

---

I could be a right biotch and laugh at the irony of this, but I have no desire to embarrass you.

You might want to check the patch notes.

Light Shot is Archer exclusive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that means it cannot be cross-classed. That means melee can't use it, and we're talking about melee here, not ranged.

Also, could you specifically cite the 4 other non-TP melee attack abilities? I wouldn't want to perpetuate misinformation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, how dose is not count ? It initiated battle with no training point cost, and its on a DoW. That fits the 2 pre-req of the debate in which you and another garunteed previously do not exist. I also know for a fact that I have 4, none TP requiring abilitied avaliable to my PGL, MRD, and GLD, that are initial attacks.

No sir, I am not mistaken, Nothing I refere to is "most likely" guildmarks or anything else.

Perhaps some folks need to get in game and use some of the abilities , check out some of what crosses classes, and learn the system a little more, before attempting to educate the community. At this point all thats occuring is the purpetuation of misinformation.

---

Wow.

You did not actually get the point she was trying to make, and is trying to claim the existance of stuff like Throw completely puts her point apart, which it doesn't.

I, too, disagree with her views, but at the damn least I understand her.

Let me make it clear for you, on her behalf then:

There are no free offensive melee abilities on this game, that both require no TP or consumables (cooldown only skills) and therefore making combat "worse" and "less interactive". Light shot is, for all intent and purposes, the archer's regular attack, it doesn't count. Throwing Javelins, axes, stones and the like also doesn't, as they are ranged moves that require consumables.

Stop making assumptions over someone else's opnions when you didn't even understand it, stop being overly agressive, and stop assuming others do not play the game.