Famitsu Interview - YoshiP 3 Year Anniversary Interview

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I feel there needs to be more situational use of abilities and less rotation management.

If they do it smart they can still reward skilled play just the type of skill will move from rotations to smart use if synergies and ability use.

I can do a rotation just fine I just don't find it fun. I'd rather be looking to exploit the enemies than to follow my scripted rotation.

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If be fine with this if they make trash more than just shiny ground AoE over and over.

Like an actual purpose to slow, one ilm punch. Maybe a defense breaker, crab casts hardened shell, and takes 80% less damage. Use that defense breaker and it removes it.

Then I'd be down for that.

As long as I'm reacting to something than just floor lights.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

The biggest problems with them for me is they have the exact same effect, just a different positional, and it's a random proc. Make them have different effects and have one proc off chaos thrust and the other off fill thrust and they can be two different skills.

But your idea is good if they stay the same.

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If they add a special effect for either ability it will require them to remove the random proc (as you'd like), you wouldn't want a situation where Wheeling Thrust produced a dot on your 1st 4th combo and then on the 2nd you RNG'd Wheeling Thrust again if the dots were clipping because you would run into an issue where you lose potency from the dot. If the RNG stayed it would create noticeable inconsistencies with the DPS being output.

Not on the topic of button mashing, but I also found it interesting where Yoshi-P talked about horizontal growth. He didn't appear to be talking about endgame, though... seemed to be talking about the early and midgame, as to keep the game inviting for new players.

Did anyone else interpret that the same way?

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Not on the topic of button mashing, but I also found it interesting where Yoshi-P talked about horizontal growth. He didn't appear to be talking about endgame, though... seemed to be talking about the early and midgame, as to keep the game inviting for new players.

Did anyone else interpret that the same way?

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Hi btw Thayos!

Yeah I did. I would welcome it. As fun as it is reaching the pinnacle, I enjoy alternate ways to progress when starting over. That is what I think he was talking about but was sort of vague.

Look at him. He looks happy and vigorous. I've seen him at times look mentally drained.

http://ffxiv.ru/wp-content/uploads/2...5-09.12.49.png

This interview made my stomach churn.

I really don't get this idea of closing this "gap" between player skill levels. Is SE's goal just to homogenize performance? Everyone already gets raid equivalent ilvl gear to keep the gap as small as possible, now we are going to lose rotational depth to further shrink an already small gap?

I just don't get it, why keep shrinking the gap? What's the point? If SE always caters to the lowest common denominator, and they want to shorten the gap between the skill ceiling and floor, does that mean this game's skill ceiling is moving closer to the floor (the lowest common denominator)?

This interview made me legit sad...

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Originally Posted by Kaiyoko

They need to keep both but they would be one button. The icon should change based on the positional.

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The sad part of this is that I disagree. ;_; When I was still messing around with DRG I used them being two different buttons to map them to hotbar locations that provide immediate clues to the positional and so didn't have to memorize the position of each.

That said, I dropped DRG as I played PLD more and picked up SMN. I probably won't be going back to DRG myself. But when designing the icon(s) it could be good to keep such a visual queue in mind.

I hope I understood this wrong but to me seems like "hey let's nerf the hell out of this game make it flat for dummies so we can grab more subs". I hope we understood the interview wrong. His is planning to make everything much more flat and easier? What's next dungeons with no mechanics and 1 hit mobs? Unless he plans to make the combat more interesting by adding more engaging mechanics and more dodges I see this as a huge nerf.
Closing the gap between casual players and hardcores? This will end up with hardcores leaving and new comers getting bored fast. I really don't understand this. Wasn't the game casual enough already? Wasn't it easy enough to the point we got bored few weeks after every patch now he wants to make this a casual flat thing to match Facebook's F2P games lvl or what? I didn't like what he said there.
Still no word about end game. Hope he will not repeat the many month content draught after 3.0 with 4.0. Flatter gameplay with flatter dungeons is not fun Yoshi.
I pray I got this all wrong really.

My overall interpretation was he wants to make jobs easier to play so encounters will be more about learning the specific fight rather than learning to manage your buff timers around the fight.

Any change is going to have both its fans and detractors. Just looking at BLM in this very thread we have some who hate it at 60 and others who found it dull at 50 and appreciated the increase in complexity. I'm guessing that going by their data SE thinks more people fall into group 1.

I think they were going to have to overhaul rotations for 4.0 in any case. Most of my jobs now take 2 full hotbars on controller (Arcanist takes 3 if the pet is on manual control) and I wasn't looking forward to having to fit more abilities in come 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

My overall interpretation was he wants to make jobs easier to play so encounters will be more about learning the specific fight rather than learning to manage your buff timers around the fight.

Any change is going to have both its fans and detractors. Just looking at BLM in this very thread we have some who hate it at 60 and others who found it dull at 50 and appreciated the increase in complexity. I'm guessing that going by their data SE thinks more people fall into group 1.

I think they were going to have to overhaul rotations for 4.0 in any case. Most of my jobs now take 2 full hotbars on controller (Arcanist takes 3 if the pet is on manual control) and I wasn't looking forward to having to fit more abilities in come 4.0.

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The under emphasis on rotation perfection could open up the dynamics for more party synergy as well versus showboat God Of War.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

My overall interpretation was he wants to make jobs easier to play so encounters will be more about learning the specific fight rather than learning to manage your buff timers around the fight.

Any change is going to have both its fans and detractors. Just looking at BLM in this very thread we have some who hate it at 60 and others who found it dull at 50 and appreciated the increase in complexity. I'm guessing that going by their data SE thinks more people fall into group 1.

I think they were going to have to overhaul rotations for 4.0 in any case. Most of my jobs now take 2 full hotbars on controller (Arcanist takes 3 if the pet is on manual control) and I wasn't looking forward to having to fit more abilities in come 4.0.

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That's my impression as well. We always have people here complaining about people being lazy or doing a poor job with their rotations, so maybe Yoshida decided to make jobs simpler in response.

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Originally Posted by Kaiyoko

According to the article, players in Japan feel obligated to do content if it has ilvl gear and YoshiP doesn't want that when it comes to Savage content while also increasing clear rates, it creates a tricky situation. That's why I say that cosmetic items should be the only reward. You reward people with something that can be showed off visually and rare for those that can complete the hardest challenges. Not items that puts others on a different level.

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The thing is, this is not a game for Japanese only. I am not saying that ilvl gear is the only way to go, but they do need to add something that gets people world wide jumping into Savage right when they beat Normal. ilvl gear is the most effective means. I don't see the problem either. People who did Normal on WoW didn't complain they didn't get gear from Heroic mode when a new patch came. I would like to hear how Japanese feel about that in depth because it is kind of silly.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

That's my impression as well. We always have people here complaining about people being lazy or doing a poor job with their rotations, so maybe Yoshida decided to make jobs simpler in response.

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I doubt they are going to take the rotation down to 50 level standard. You can't make but so much dramatic change from 60 to 70(assuming that is the new level cap). I would imagine they are going to make it so you don't feel like you are micro managing your character. Like make a buff a minute instead of 30 seconds, or a debuff 45 seconds instead of 30. Things like Wanderer's Minuet, Enochian, and other complex level abilities are not just going to go away. I can imagine they will make them easier to work with through traits that increase their ease of use. Not saying you do, but it is silly if anyone actually thinks they are just dumbing down the combat. It is just going to be more convenient ways of going about things. In turn the developers as Yoshi-P said, can take the enemies back to a more difficult level. The ease of the next Alexander tier compared to the first two is only a temporary measure for the state of lv.60 combat.

I understood him saying that he would like more "casual" or time limited players to be able to enjoy hardcore content for the game play and not get so frustrated trying to stay alive that they never go back to end game due to its massive damage and constant buff management required at the moment. I personnally would do more end game participation if I did not have to pray and hope that I get a decent enouff party a couple of times so that I can have time to understand the mechanics in my limited play time.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

That's my impression as well. We always have people here complaining about people being lazy or doing a poor job with their rotations, so maybe Yoshida decided to make jobs simpler in response.

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And I have the eerie gut feeling that this will go the way of increased base values while keeping the max values intact. So a True strike from the rear would still be 180 potency while one from everywhere else would be 165 or something. Damage while using Enochian remains the same, damage outside of Enochian gets buffed etc.

I'm curious how it'll end up working out. Best case we get a Fuma/Raiton situation with rotations where sometimes one is better to use than the other, worst case it'll end up being a little less engaging. Either way, as Ninja, I feel rather safe that my gameplay won't change too much.

I think it is good simplifying the rotations there were way too many buttons especially if you play with a controller, level 50 had the right amount of buttons.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

The only problem here is that by making savage midcore the game will have no hardcore content.
I consider it quite a problem because the only thing that kept me subscribed since 2.1 were raids.

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But you didn't have anything in 2.x that was hardcore, when compared to Gordias and Midas.

People loved coil and coil difficulty. And they hate Gordias and Midas difficulty. How can it possibly be a bad thing if next Alex is going down to coil difficulty again?

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

But you didn't have anything in 2.x that was hardcore, when compared to Gordias and Midas.

People loved coil and coil difficulty. And they hate Gordias and Midas difficulty. How can it possibly be a bad thing if next Alex is going down to coil difficulty again?

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Second Coil of Bahamut(Savage)

I would argue also that 2.0 did a better job working you into raids. 3.0 is you take on a ridiculously easy story mode, then take on a brutally challenging raid. No in between besides maybe one EX primal. 2.0 and 3.0's style is different. Its not so much about the difficulty, it is about how well you are worked into that difficulty. 2.0 made you take on Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan before going into Coil on their hard mode. First Coil worked you into Second Coil naturally and so on.

Building on what Velhart said...

I agree. 2.x had a much smoother transition from storyline to raid content. And because the raid turns grew more complex with each turn, the eventual echo buff also made much more of an impact for those who needed the boost.

I wonder if the development team started off 3.x from such a relatively high position of difficulty thinking that "our players already ramped up through 2.x, so we don't need to build the level of difficulty again." I actually think we'd be better off if each patch was essentially a hard reset of the difficulty level, rather than coming at it as a continuation from the previous expansion. That would help more people advance through the raids and extreme primals with a more realistic learning curve.

Not everyone likes raiding, and many people won't raid simply for that reason. But might as well make raids as appealing as possible.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

2.0 made you take on Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan before going into Coil on their hard mode.

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Mmm I really wouldn't go that far to make it sound like the Primals were that huge of value. I mean it did make you have to do them, and they were good experiences for entry level play, but you really didn't need to master those fights to clear them... nor did you have to really farm them. People were going in with simple Philosophy gear and the easy to obtain Relic weapon (with some Myth gear as time went on) to clear turn 1. Likewise with turns 2-4. 5 was the only significant jump in difficulty and gear req between the turns.

I equate the stepping stones of the Primals to Void Ark and Nidhogg norm these days. Chances are that if you're seeing someone want to try Savage or even in the normal Alex raids, they've done at least one of those other HW raids. Not a whole lot has changed, given the fact that those intro mechanics are scattered all around now. It's not like we're not exposed to things, unlike during 2.0.

To be honest, I think the problem lies in how powerful our characters are now, rather than the mechanics themselves. This is a similar problem to what WoW experienced years ago (and still sorta does) with stat bloat and huge output potential. Actual resource management is practically non-existent and hasn't been for a very long time here.

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Mmm I really wouldn't go that far to make it sound like the Primals were that huge of value.

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Keep in mind, though, that Titan HM was such a frustrating roadblock that it caused many players to quit the game. I'd say Titan HM was definitely more difficult than coil turns 1 and 2. I don't really remember T4 well enough to make that same claim.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Keep in mind, though, that Titan HM was such a frustrating roadblock that it caused many players to quit the game. I'd say Titan HM was definitely more difficult than coil turns 1 and 2. I don't really remember T4 well enough to make that same claim.

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Titan was certainly the wall at the time. One typical reason however was lag or improper recognition. Initially, that really was a big problem for all versions of Titan.

http://ci.memecdn.com/614/9067614.gif

Once we got used to it better though, and more people started using VPNs, it became less of a problem. That wasn't so much about learning a new mechanic as it was memorizing something you already knew but giving it an unnecessarily higher degree of priority.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Titan was certainly the wall at the time. One typical reason however was lag or improper recognition. Initially, that really was a big problem for all versions of Titan.

http://ci.memecdn.com/614/9067614.gif

Once we got used to it better though, and more people started using VPNs, it became less of a problem. That wasn't so much about learning a new mechanic as it was memorizing something you already knew but giving it an unnecessarily higher degree of priority.

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The old server update in instances were 0.3 secs in the 2.0 days. In patch 2.1 they updated the server updates to 0.1 sec. This helped a lot of people clear Titan HM.

What I don't understand is why classes have to be nerfed in difficulty. If they don't think people are passing raids enough, then nerf the raids by requiring 80% of optimal performance instead of 90% or something. Don't nerf the optimal performance potential. I like being rewarded for trying hard and playing well, and if the game is dumbed down I'll probably fall asleep during dungeons. Why can't we just keep the complexity of the classes, and if skilled players want to make use of it they can, and if other players don't want to they don't have to?

People say 2.0 rotations were fine, but if you look back now they're terrible. Level 50 syncing is so BORING now. Let's break down just how stupidly simple jobs were back then:

- Paladin: spam the Halone combo ad infinitum
- Bard: refresh 2 DoTs and a buff and spam Heavy Shot
- Summoner: refresh 4 DoTs and spam Ruin
- Black Mage: spam Fire I and the occasional Fire III proc until OOM, use Thunder attacks in Umbral Ice, go back to spamming Fire
- Dragoon: HT + combo + Phl + combo, repeat
- Monk: Dragon Kick + Twin Snakes + 3rd hit, Bootshine + True Strike + 3rd hit, repeat with some Touch of Death

I can understand if the buff management part isn't fun, but if that's the case, then just remove the buff management and replace it with rotations or something with an equally high skill cap. I don't care how they do it, I just don't want the devs going into 4.0 with the mindset of making everything simpler and easier.

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Originally Posted by Mantrus

People say 2.0 rotations were fine, but if you look back now they're terrible. Level 50 syncing is so BORING now. Let's break down just how stupidly simple jobs were back then:

- Paladin: spam the Halone combo ad infinitum
- Bard: refresh 2 DoTs and a buff and spam Heavy Shot
- Summoner: refresh 4 DoTs and spam Ruin
- Black Mage: spam Fire I and the occasional Fire III proc until OOM, use Thunder attacks in Umbral Ice, go back to spamming Fire
- Dragoon: HT + combo + Phl + combo, repeat
- Monk: Dragon Kick + Twin Snakes + 3rd hit, Bootshine + True Strike + 3rd hit, repeat with some Touch of Death

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Some people enjoy simplicity.

I for one like both BRD and BLM at 50 more than 60. However I do like 60 SMN and PLD more than their 50 counterparts.
Can't comment much on the melee since I play them very infrequently both now and back in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

Some people enjoy simplicity.

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Then play your classes in the way you deem simple. But don't force everyone else to play simply too.

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Originally Posted by Mantrus

Then play your classes in the way you deem simple. But don't force everyone else to play simply too.

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Doing so would be detrimental to the other players in my group. So no, I will use class mechanics for as long as I'm playing.

I'm just saying every class doesn't need to be complicated. Not that SE should simplify them all.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Actual resource management is practically non-existent and hasn't been for a very long time here.

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I'd say Dark Knight is the only Job that manages it... MP/TP are fairly flawed resources anyway, given more or less all your actions are tied to them, so running out is pretty much the worst possible situation... That's why Dark Knight works though, it can run out of MP but still do its TP combo... Doesn't quite work the other way, since Unmend spam is fairly boring, thankfully running low on TP is fairly rare... Paladin is another Job that technically uses both resources, but it's no where near as polished as Dark Knight... Paladins MP recovery is iffy, and the way it uses MP doesn't strike me as central to the Job...

Aetherflow is the only other resource I can think of that comes close to working as such, and even that feels more like managing cooldowns than a resource... The recovery of stacks is just too static, while Dark Knight getting MP for Dark Arts is fairly dynamic, not to mention Dark Knight just out right has more toys to play with in that regard (7, compared to 4 or 5), plus none of those toys are really locked to the resource being managed... You cannot Bane without Aetherflow, but Dark Knight can use all its toys without Dark Arts...

Hope they don't make Dark Knight ridiculously basic to play... I mean, it already is hilariously simple in AoE situations... Still, it's perhaps my favorite Job at the moment, hope they don't ruin it... Only thing I'd quite like is something like Monks Meditation mechanic combined with Black Mages Convert... That'd technically make MP management on the Job a whole lot simpler, but since you're throwing HP away for MP, it's something you'd use between fights... Even adds some complexity IMO, since I might be incline to push it and use it in combat on some occasions...

Oh My God.... That's all I have to say about Yoshi P's comments... It was already hard enough to stand out at your job, and now he wants to make it even easier for people? People gotta read man... Read your moves and use them... Yoshi P if you change my beloved black mage to make the game easier I damn near might quit this game... Damn... near... might... quit... When we first got enochian I was like... this is hard, but then I became to respect it, because it takes skill to keep it all day.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

Some people enjoy simplicity.

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Originally Posted by Mantrus

Then play your classes in the way you deem simple. But don't force everyone else to play simply too.

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I agree with Mantrus, you're not forced to play w/ the update abilities. The level 50 rotations still exist and you can use them if you so please. That was the point of the 1st quote I linked from YoshiP. Players can play the game as they please, so if the level 50 rotation suit you better then use them, but you shouldn't expect to preform at the same level as someone fully utilizing the new abilities. This shouldn't be forced on everyone.

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Originally Posted by Luciano_Bozzelli

Oh My God.... That's all I have to say about Yoshi P's comments... It was already hard enough to stand out at your job, and now he wants to make it even easier for people? People gotta read man... Read your moves and use them... Yoshi P if you change my beloved black mage to make the game easier I damn near might quit this game... Damn... near... might... quit...

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I don't think they delete Enochian and all that Stuff that made Rotations complicated, when Heavensward has hitted.

They have a lot of Options to to add newer Abilities without leaving your Hotbar a mess. Adding 50 - 60 Traits is an Option aswell and could alter Rotations and make it easier for Players.

Still wonders me why we have no Traits up to 60... would it make us too strong? Heck one knows...

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

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You and I played a different 2.0 then. Tons of people had a major roadblock with these three primals, especially Titan. The game just got released, most players were still adjusting to the game. Not much was expected from you until Praetorium. Even then, Ifrit hard was definitely a fight where you had to start taking things seriously. Sure with our experience today their mechanics are a walk in the park, but when people were just starting, it was quite an ordeal. It did feel very rewarding downing Titan and finally getting to see Coils for the first time. Experiences feel better when they were earned, not simply just handed to me.

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Originally Posted by Mantrus

Then play your classes in the way you deem simple. But don't force everyone else to play simply too.

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There is a difference between simplifying and dumbing down. Increasing timers and such to not feel like you are micro managing so much especially in a raid fight can help not cause so much frustration. Them making abilities more convenient to use isn't dumbing anything down. Doing things like increasing buff timers, changing how some abilities work does not dumb down the combat. It also allows developers to make harder content. Again, they are not dumbing down things. You are not going to see Enochian on BLM go away. They may make methods to manage it easier, but it isn't going away. BRD's and MCH's casting stances won't go away, they may make more abilities that proc to make the stance feel more natural. Well, it does feel natural on MCH, I am pointing more towards BRD.

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Originally Posted by Kaiyoko

I agree with Mantrus, you're not forced to play w/ the update abilities. The level 50 rotations still exist and you can use them if you so please. That was the point of the 1st quote I linked from YoshiP. Players can play the game as they please, so if the level 50 rotation suit you better then use them, but you shouldn't expect to preform at the same level as someone fully utilizing the new abilities. This shouldn't be forced on everyone.

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Sure, your 12.99 a month, you play how you want. Just don't expect others to put up with it. Not learning your new abilities is only a detriment to yourself and the people you play with.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

They have a lot of Options to to add newer Abilities without leaving your Hotbar a mess. Adding 50 - 60 Traits is an Option aswell and could alter Rotations and make it easier for Players

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I still think their best bet is trashing the cross-class system in favor of a series of specific Job skills that we pick from... Like, some skills already fall in there anyway... Is Paladin ever going to set Cure, despite that practically being a staple of the Job in the Final Fantasy franchise? Nope... Cure sucks on Paladin... Clemency is effectively Paladins version of Cure, though...

I guess I've just never been a fan of the cross-class system though... While I guess it's very Final Fantasy, it just seems lazy... Why does Ninja have pretty much the same TP and HP recovery as Dragoon and Monk? I'd much prefer to have something which does the same thing, but in its own way... Kiss of the Wasp and Kiss of the Viper are woefully underused IMO, I'd say give Ninja Suiyaku (a skill some NPCs have used) instead of Invigorate and Second Wind, and make it so with Kiss of the Wasp it restores TP, Kiss of the Viper it restores HP. That strikes me as much more interesting than giving Ninja Invigorate and Second Wind, like we currently have... I mean, all three tanks have Provoke... They all need such a skill for tank swap mechanics, but do they all need the exact same skill? Couldn't Warrior have something similar to Holmgang, that forces the enemy on him for a while, regardless of enmity, and just boosts enmity generation so Warrior can effectively take hate? Couldn't Dark Knight effectively have a reverse Shadewalker, with a Dark Arts effect that boosts its potency? It's so boring that they all just have the same skill that sets your enmity to that of whoever has hate, +1... Then you've got Bard, also sharing Second Wind and Invigorate... Why not give them a traditional Regen Song? Then throw in a skill that alters the effect of the next Song, making it instant rather than persistent; Regen Song becomes a flat Second Wind style recovery skill, TP Song becomes an AoE Invigorate, and so on... That's much more interesting to me than the current cross-class system... So much potentially to give Jobs "new" skills, without actually loading up our hotbar with new skills... Cut off the lame vestige of 1.0 and give us something interesting instead...

Trashing a cross class system is very un-final fantasy. The whole idea of leveling everything on one character is based on that. Your story, skills, rites of passage, is all based on a cross class system. Toss that aside and you might as well make the game alt based.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Trashing a cross class system is very un-final fantasy. The whole idea of leveling everything on one character is based on that. Your story, skills, rites of passage, is all based on a cross class system. Toss that aside and you might as well make the game alt based.

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To be fair, in the past when I've suggested this, I've also suggested tying it into Classes anyway...

So rather than leveling Dragoon and setting Invigorate on Ninja, you go to your Ninja trainer, having finished the Lancer quests, and you get a quest/s in which you go to the Lancers guild to learn the new skill. Although for the skill I just suggested, you'd need Lancer and Pugilist quests complete I guess, since Suiyaku would be an Invigorate/Second Wind hybrid...

Achieves the exact same thing cross-class skills already aim to achieve; Having you try out other Classes, but it standardizes it... No more "I need Lv34 Lancer, but Lv42 Pugilist"... Not sure how it would mean you might as well make the game alt based though... Not needing Pugilist leveled for Mantra, because a Job quest gives you a more appropriate and mechanically fitting version of it for your Job, doesn't suddenly mean we're locked to one Job... I haven't leveled multiple Jobs on one character because the game forced me to, I did it because I wanted to... The only reason the game would become alt based is if they remove the ability to level everything on one character, and refining the cross-class system isn't going to cause that... If the cross-class system is the only reason this game isn't alt based, then why do I have Dark Knight and Scholar leveled on the same character? As far as cross-class skills go, they don't interact at all...

You'd also still require certain sub-classes to unlock Jobs anyway... Really going to have to disagree with you on the whole "leveling everything on one character is based on the cross-class system" though... The cross-class system is a vestige left over from 1.0, which IMO is just a lazy fix... All the DPS need a TP recovery, so just give them all Invigorate... It further homogenizes Jobs (they're literally sharing the same skills...) and wastes potentially to play with Job specific mechanics... Heck, even as a throwback to classic titles, the cross-class system is pretty pathetic... Sub-classes gave much more freedom to create interesting combinations, cross-class skills offers nothing remotely close, unless you count setting Physick on White Mage for some reason... I imagine the main reason we can level everything on one character is because SE acknowledges that this is a story heavy game, and having to redo the entire story to level something different rubs people the wrong way...

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Trashing a cross class system is very un-final fantasy.

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Getting rid of a useless system isn't something I'd call "Un-Final Fantasy" I'd call it getting rid of a system they don't use to focus on making the jobs unique unto themselves. Having the jobs be unique and all feel different is very "Final Fantasy" if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Keep in mind, though, that Titan HM was such a frustrating roadblock that it caused many players to quit the game. I'd say Titan HM was definitely more difficult than coil turns 1 and 2. I don't really remember T4 well enough to make that same claim.

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I feel T2 may have been slightly tougher than Titan HM (Rot mechanic). Much like Landslide in Titan HM, the laser attack ADS used was pretty tough to avoid (I recall a gif where a BRD steps out of the AoE and maybe a second or so later, still gets hit by the attack, almost getting KO'd). I'm not sure when the Enrage strategy was discovered, but I think it was near 2.1's release... or after?

Titan HM however, was pushed on to players more as it was part of the relic quest, and not pitched to players as the super hard raid mode as Coil was.

Simply put, more players fought Titan HM and felt the sting of bad latency there than T2. That, and we didn't have an optional tactic you could cheese the fight away with.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You and I played a different 2.0 then. Tons of people had a major roadblock with these three primals, especially Titan. The game just got released, most players were still adjusting to the game. Not much was expected from you until Praetorium. Even then, Ifrit hard was definitely a fight where you had to start taking things seriously. Sure with our experience today their mechanics are a walk in the park, but when people were just starting, it was quite an ordeal. It did feel very rewarding downing Titan and finally getting to see Coils for the first time. Experiences feel better when they were earned, not simply just handed to me.

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Yes, but you and I weren't referring to the rewarding experience, we were referencing the methodology and exposure to learning. Unless I misinterpreted it, you said it yourself here...

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Its not so much about the difficulty, it is about how well you are worked into that difficulty.

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For the most part, we already learned what we needed to, so the same types of mechanics are thrown into easier situations like dungeons. Even for new players, they're being shown at least some similar mechanics as they level or progress their character, alongside completely new ones. The main difference being the watered down version it is, although part of that is due to what I mentioned. The fact we can ignore a lot of them is a testament to it. That being that our characters are over powered compared to how they were during 2.0. Managing MP, for example, was more of a factor progressing than it is now. I mean, its never been a situation where you OOM for casting wasting a couple heals or anything, but it's hard for someone to argue that we have the same or greater degree of difficulty with MP now than we did then. Again, just as an example.

I know it's by design that we are be able to faceroll those types of learning experiences now, but it doesn't change the fact that they ARE still something everyone experiences as they level or gear up. It just comes down to 1) our own outlook of accepting how powerful/OP our characters have become (as in little to no worries about anything like resources outside of messing up scripted content or rotation) and 2) the devs design philosophy behind why we're that OP. Learning the mechanics about something is one factor about difficulty, but it will become stale because once we learn it, we know it. You'll almost never have that same degree of difficulty again with the same mechanic thrown at you and there's only so much that can be done before that well of completely unique ideas runs dry.

Simpler rotation can work fine - WAR is fundamentally pretty basic but due to it's unique stack mechanic it can get really min/max-y when planning out your GCDs. Same thing with MNK w/ maintaining stacks, hitting positionals, Fracture usage, etc. etc.

That said, with simpler rotations needs to come more engaging mechanics, so whether this change is good or not hinges on the direction they take content in general.

Glad they recognized finally that WAR/SCH offer too much utility and it's nice to see that they're not just going to neuter the two and instead find a nice balance.

There wasn't much positive stuff in this interview, though - I can see why everyone's a bit gloom and doom about it. I'm not exactly optimistic but I'm just going to wait and see how things go.

Just skimming over this thread has me seeing the usual suspects speaking up as their playstyle is suddenly threatened. I'm not surprised but I'm sorry to say that this time we need to play by the actual metrics.

This pretty much confirms what was implied by the unofficial census - that hardcore clear rates were unsatisfactory. Now we know that's not only an opinion of a good number of the people spoken here, but also of the developers as well.

As far as the simplification of a normal combat rotation. This can be a matter of making conditional status buffs longer in duration (Extending the duration of Disembowel and Chaos Thrust's Dots, for example, will reduce complexity of a Dragoon's rotation, as well as increasing the gain returns off of a completed 4 step weaponskill, which would truncate the need to be overly watchful of the Blood of the Dragon Timer Mechanic.) This would not take away from the class, and, in fact, pave the way for more situational skills to be both implemented and useful.

Speaking of Skills - Yoshida has an opportunity here to re-define what it means to progressively raid. Obviously not in 4.00 as this is planned out already and adjustments may be difficult. But possibly in 4.xx iterations or even in 5.0.

I will likely be writing a series of threads in the future on the topic of re-examining what it means to raid, (or do any endgame content, really) and how we might best find that 'sweet spot' players and developers are both looking for. Unfortunately my time during the week is severely limited so most likely this will occur during the weekends, as I'd rather be spending my weekday free time playing the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Getting rid of a useless system isn't something I'd call "Un-Final Fantasy" I'd call it getting rid of a system they don't use to focus on making the jobs unique unto themselves. Having the jobs be unique and all feel different is very "Final Fantasy" if you ask me.

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Well the current class setup is sort of as you say. However, Final Fantasies that have had job systems, most had systems that let you cross something. Call it sphere grid, crystarium, whatever you want to call it. Stripping it completely would be Swtor.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3822071