Yoshi - Players who "Like" Challenges would ALSO like to obtain a Relic Weapon

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Originally Posted by Alberel

There would have been a lot less complaining if the relic didn't funnel people into six-month old content that the vast majority of players were already burnt out on (Alexander). The quest should have focused more on content that released in 3.1 rather than 3.0.

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I've only been inside Alexander Normal maybe 7 times after the first 5 weeks it was released. I have never stepped inside Alexander Normal after patch 3.1 hit. I'm currently on 19/80 items. I will go into Alexander later, but even if I didn't, nothing about this quest is funneling me into doing Alexander to complete it.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I think probably most importantly is the concern of relevancy. He has flat out now said that the relic will be ousted by the new tomestones weapon in 3.2, and that the relic won't catch up until 3.25? He then added that the savage weapon will likely be even higher than the tomestones weapon. I am already 35% done to 210 now, so I'll just finish it, but this is very disappointing.

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Hey!

From a different perspective, I'm prolly going to grind the 210 now since I'm not going to miss having it until June since it won't even catch up until then. I feel like the pressure is off...I can take it nice and leisurely and I don't have to feel like I'm beating my face against it, or that I'm obligated to run Alex 10 or 20 times a night to finish it in x weeks.

I agree that the crafting could have been implemented better as well. Crafters should have an advantage (I am NOT a crafter, btw), probably be able to get it faster. It should not be a crafting gate to where if you're not a crafter you're forking out gil in massive quantities. Concentrating gil wealth in the hands of a few specialized crafters can't be good for the game's economy either.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

And that is the problem, the relic is made obsolete instantly by a new patch, sure 3.2 wont be till maybe feb/march next year so that is 1 month where the relic is useful after that month of causal grind, until an easy peasy higher much better weapon in the form of tomes comes along and makes it useless....

The grind is not justified when a weapon that can be gotten in under 2 weeks will be much better, much easier to obtain and less work...

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Again, the relic is long-term investment. It (should, if done properly) be relevant for a long time at the END of the expac (starting with the customization phase (read - Alexandrite)), at which time the time investment throughout the expac upgrading it becomes worth it. It remains to be seen if SE will nail this or fail this for 3.xx.

if the relic is a long term investment why is it not like the 1.0 relic? Where it took 100s of quests but was the most powerful weapon in the game by a long margin.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

if the relic is a long term investment why is it not like the 1.0 relic? Where it took 100s of quests but was the most powerful weapon in the game by a long margin.

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It may end up being that way by the end of 3.xx, and personally I think that that is probably the way to go. I think some temperance is warranted on the long margin - it needs to be comparable (superior maybe, but only a moderate upgrade) to the raiding drops in order to not aggro the raiders who sink just as much time into savage as others do into relic. But I do think that in the end it needs to be the undisputed BiS for the expac. So on this point, I think we're in agreement.

It just remains to be seen if SE agrees with us. We shall see.

I don't really do raids or extreme primals, and I liked the first stage of the original relic more than this. I wasn't able to be alive at the end of Titan when I did that part, so I didn't really feel great about being "carried", but every other part of it seemed fine. Even with Titan that original quest is better than any of the later parts, they are all just boring grinds. When I was doing books and waiting hours for FATEs I felt like this game should come with a free subscription to Netflix because otherwise it was unbearable to play.

I don't know how much I care about the current quest because it doesn't seem that interesting or worthwhile. And also it requires crafted things that I probably can't afford, so even if I suffer through it all I'll just have a clogged inventory for however many months it takes for those to be reasonably priced, assuming that ever even happens.

I honestly was expecting it to be fates again but would of been nice to have something fresh, not re-use the same assets already in game. Grinding has been like 200% easier though then when atma was first introduced.
4 months for 12 atmas as opposed to 2 or 3 days for crystals. The real issue i hate, and this was in the previous relic as well... HQ crafted stuff. Why SE?
I just feel like the entire questline to get a Relic especially one named Anima should be more Epic, lol

Personally I find that the inability to exchange Primal and Savage tokens for an appropriate amount of Relic Tokens is extremely counterproductive. In a worst case scenario it would be something that would at least make people think of attempting to do both extreme Primals and Savage, thus serving as a motivating factor.

From my point of view (and apparently I'm not the only one who thinks this way) the current relic quest serves to cater to people who lack even a sliver of motivation to actually try higher level content (believe me I've been there and done that) instead of serving as a way to have people try other parts of the game while still giving them the option to stay within their comfort zone.

Note that i'm refering to the non-crafting portion of the 3rd section of the relic quest, the remainder is its own thing.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Some people in my FC got their Relics in just 4 days. With some teamwork and planning it is not that bad.

Aside from that, Relics were only meant to fill in the niche of Grindy Content for people who like that kind of stuff.

Alex Savage = first set of 210 Weapons available (challenge and skill party content)
Relic = 2nd set of 210 Weapons (Grind and Solo)
Void Ark God Dip = 3rd set of 210 (Much later 210 weapons requires no challenge Just upgrade the Eso weapon)

I don't think it is the Relic Quest that is the problem, just entitled players not understanding what niche it fills.

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A lot of the people I know who got it in 4 days did it on almost zero sleep and focus on new time player bonuses with non-stop Alex runs in between.

Not saying that it isn't teamwork and planning, but that's 'not that bad' is a bit misleading. For most normal people, that isn't an accurate reflection of the time investment.

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An exception to this concept was the necessity to beat the hard versions of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan for the relics released at 2.0; however, looking at the percentage of players who possessed relics at that time, we determined that this was a wall for players who were not into difficult content.

While we've been receiving requests to make Anima weapons involve more challenging content and to not tie it to randomness or crafted items, just as I mentioned above, this is content that is focused on creating weapons by spending time, so I’d appreciate everyone’s understanding that this is an option for players who are not into challenging difficult content.

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That was quoted from Naoki Yoshida himself. There's your answer. The relic is designed for less skilled players to get top tier weapon by investing time instead of skill. Skilled players have EX primal weapons and raid weapons as options.

I think relic also serves as good filler in between patches and I wish there were more things like this for ppl that can spend more then 4 hours a week playing so they have something to do after capping weekly tomes.

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Originally Posted by ProfBlake

Personally I find that the inability to exchange Primal and Savage tokens for an appropriate amount of Relic Tokens is extremely counterproductive. In a worst case scenario it would be something that would at least make people think of attempting to do both extreme Primals and Savage, thus serving as a motivating factor.

From my point of view (and apparently I'm not the only one who thinks this way) the current relic quest serves to cater to people who lack even a sliver of motivation to actually try higher level content (believe me I've been there and done that) instead of serving as a way to have people try other parts of the game while still giving them the option to stay within their comfort zone.

Note that i'm refering to the non-crafting portion of the 3rd section of the relic quest, the remainder is its own thing.

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I knooooooooooow, and it's soooo cringy!

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Originally Posted by Reilyn

Saying 'go do alex savage if you wanted to be rewarded for skill' doesn't fly either when the weapon reward for doing it isn't as good as relic for several jobs for doing content you can't sleep through (plus it doesn't even give you a title), and when diadem rewards bis for jobs depending on luck (my SCH robe from diadem with 86 crit, 94 piety, and 25 det is better than what I can get from a4s. I've passed the healing robe to our SMN)

Raid participation in this patch cycle is low anyway. This would help remedy this known problem. Why not have that optional incentive to get better at the game make people want to do at least thordan ex, or go into savage if it could mean they could get a relic faster?

Aside from the poorly designed alexander encounters, between the current relic chain, and diadem (eg: bis SCH robe is mistbreak alb with crit on it. Not a4s robe, or not even upgraded eso), they are further killing alot of motivation for people to do the game's hardest content.

We could have a larger pool of people who actually want to raid again if something as difficult as thordan ex, and a1s at least gave a sizable amount of progress through their 3rd step. Lack of participation is a major problem they know they have, and they are not helping it by rewarding people who do raid less than those who don't in too many cases. The OP's suggestion would actually help fix that.

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They know their raid participation numbers are dwindling. Why would they compound the problem by actively not rewarding anyone for doing the challenging content?!

SCH a4s weapon isn't the best. Both eso SCH robe, and a4s robe don't have crit. I didn't even get a title for downing a4s for gods sake. Real raiders who would actually care about the prestige more than the material rewards are a minority. Most people just want that shiny weapon of badassery, and nothing more. They will see where the best shiny rewards are from will stop short and 'ask why bother doing a4s at all?' Most any other SCH who isn't me would have very little motivation at all to do alexander savage knowing that.

It almost seemed calculated too with the number of jobs who's relic weapons are literally crit/det, and finally giving SCHs crit on a weapon at all.

SE needs to put a larger piece of cheese in the harder content, and the OP's suggestion could be just that, like a one-time only turn in for each manifesto page for 50 of each precision token, or something else for heavensward helm fragments as well.

I see no problems to this. It doesn't interfere with those that just want to grind dungeons and beast dailies, while people who don't want to do the above can pursue other options as part of the quest.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

That was quoted from Naoki Yoshida himself. There's your answer. The relic is designed for less skilled players to get top tier weapon by investing time instead of skill. Skilled players have EX primal weapons and raid weapons as options.

I think relic also serves as good filler in between patches and I wish there were more things like this for ppl that can spend more then 4 hours a week playing so they have something to do after capping weekly tomes.

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Why cant we have 2 paths? the less skilled approach or the raid approach? Because relics glow and well are meant to look cool and unique, the raid gear looks terrible and unoriginal. Dont worry guys you can spend ages getting a cool looking weapon after you just spent ages to learn how to beat Ex fight...just because your raid weapon looks worse then the easy weapon.

More epic the weapon the more it should look better...if its gotten from a raid it should be more epic then a casual easy grind weapon.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

That was quoted from Naoki Yoshida himself. There's your answer. The relic is designed for less skilled players to get top tier weapon by investing time instead of skill. Skilled players have EX primal weapons and raid weapons as options.


I think relic also serves as good filler in between patches as well and I wish there were more things like this for ppl that can spend more then 4 hours a week playing so they something to do after capping weekly tomes.

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As I said previously, i'm glad they put in some content that is easier for alot of players, but its the above mentality that perplexes me. I don't like the idea that categories for players are so black and white. I'm really neither a raider nor a casual player. I enjoy the occasional raid and work toward them, but I don't ever do progression.

It's the players like me that suffer the most with this black and white vision of players. It's hard for me to prepare to raid in the small hours that I have to play and work on the relic. When the game is supposed to be opposed to the specializations that alot of MMO's use by being able to level all classes and jobs it seems like such a paradox that when it comes to gearing that decision has to be made anyway.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

Why cant we have 2 paths? the less skilled approach or the raid approach? Because relics glow and well are meant to look cool and unique, the raid gear looks terrible and unoriginal. Dont worry guys you can spend ages getting a cool looking weapon after you just spent ages to learn how to beat Ex fight...just because your raid weapon looks worse then the easy weapon.

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I agree.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

More epic the weapon the more it should look better...if its gotten from a raid it should be more epic then a casual easy grind weapon.

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Too bad it isn't for multiple jobs.

Have you seen how many of the relic weapons are crit det? Or in SCH's case, the first weapon with crit on it since ravana?

And they're aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall 210 too. Makes you wonder what's the point in running alex savage at all... as if the raiding playerbase's dwindling population before all of this wasn't bad enough.

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Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

Again, the relic is long-term investment. It (should, if done properly) be relevant for a long time at the END of the expac (starting with the customization phase (read - Alexandrite)), at which time the time investment throughout the expac upgrading it becomes worth it. It remains to be seen if SE will nail this or fail this for 3.xx.

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It still would be worth the time because like the zeta they were obsolete at 3.0 launch lvl55. Then people could craft a better weapon than a zeta weapon. Lmao

All the time(gil and materia) that was put into that weapon to be easily outclass by a crafted weapon in the very next update you completed that weapon. That's a kick in the face to me.

But I use to have XI relic so this is hard for me to consider this a relic. This is more a glamour super fetch quest.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

As I said previously, i'm glad they put in some content that is easier for alot of players, but its the above mentality that perplexes me. I don't like the idea that categories for players are so black and white. I'm really neither a raider nor a casual player. I enjoy the occasional raid and work toward them, but I don't ever do progression.

It's the players like me that suffer the most with this black and white vision of players. It's hard for me to prepare to raid in the small hours that I have to play and work on the relic. When the game is supposed to be opposed to the specializations that alot of MMO's use by being able to level all classes and jobs it seems like such a paradox that when it comes to gearing that decision has to be made anyway.

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They call that midcore, and it's generally accepted that the midcore players have been shafted ever since alexander savage hit. Moreso now.

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Originally Posted by Reilyn

They call that midcore, and it's generally accepted that the midcore players have been shafted ever since alexander savage hit. Moreso now.

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Isn't that the bulk of the crowd though, seems odd to create so may quests to make it difficult for us to proceed.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

Isn't that the bulk of the crowd though.

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Yes it is.

As far as content difficulty goes, there's just about nothing between normal alex, and savage alex besides thordan, and I think you are aware of how much of a gap is between the two.

It is rather black and white right now, though a1s, and a2s seem somewhat doable for PF groups these days.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

I see no problems to this. It doesn't interfere with those that just want to grind dungeons and beast dailies, while people who don't want to do the above can pursue other options as part of the quest.

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I guess my biggest issue would then be are the other content just getting doubly rewards? Are people turning in KOTR/Gordian weapons in order to progress relic? Or are people getting KOTR/ Gordian weapons on top of relic progression. I'd prob be more ok with turning in 8 KOTR weapons or 3 Gordian weapons in order to get relic instead of Getting 8 KOTR weapons AND a relic.

As a lot of other players have said, the spirit of relic was something from FFXI. It took long time to create but were awesome weapons to have. The more they nerf these quests the more of the original spirit of the relics are lost. Do we need another high level gimme weapon? Don't we have tomestone weapons and EX primal weapons for that already? This should be a reward for the people that constantly sub, constantly play, and help foster an active community, not just play 2 weeks and "wait for the next patch"

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

That was quoted from Naoki Yoshida himself. There's your answer. The relic is designed for less skilled players to get top tier weapon by investing time instead of skill. Skilled players have EX primal weapons and raid weapons as options.

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I said it before and I'll say it again; the fact that they said this, and gave multiple jobs inferior weapons/armor from doing the skill-demanding content compared to relic/diadem is not doing their low raid participation issue any favors.

-relic weapons are 210
-Many of them are crit/det.
-it's SCH's first weapon with crit on it since ravana's
-only way to get a 210 chest with crit as a SCH, or 210 boots with crit for DRG is diadem

crit is highest stat priority after softcaps for multiple jobs as most know.

OPs suggestion would at least do something to make people want to do harder content more than what little motivation exists now outside of prestige.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

It would keep everyone happy long enough to get the relic and have the next stage come out...

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ehm no, it makes no difference if you spam alex 800 times or a new trial 800 times, you'll hate both the same in the end

Regardless of if its an encounter, quest line or relic, I'm not paying a sub for content that gets delayed and requires you to do content from the previous expansion.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Regardless of if its an encounter, quest line or relic, I'm not paying a sub for content that gets delayed and requires you to do content from the previous expansion.

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its more about the gaming experience of new players, than about yours

and the opportunity costs for supporting new players seem to be better than the opportunity costs of supporting people like you

Problem is once a piece of new content is played once it becomes old content. That's a fact. Keeping all the content viable is important to the health of the game. That's not to say that something new in the way of trials similar to hydra and chimera would not have been welcomed. On the other hand one just needs to look around to see how many are doing relic. The response on my server seems to be overwhelming both in party finder and in my free company.

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Originally Posted by Sax

I think the point is that there is no middle ground. You have savage, or grinding outdated mind-numbing content. Like the OP suggested, I think adding in some extra options that didn't just cater to the lowest common denominator would be a great idea for the 200>210 stage of the Anima weapons. Sync'd coil and ARR ex primals? Great! Using Ravana or Bismarck tokens for an item just like Alex? Great! I don't know why people would be against this.

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Originally Posted by Reilyn

I will never understand you people so adamantly against providing a choice, an option to reward people who do harder content with more progress to their relic.
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Raid participation in this patch cycle is low anyway. This would help remedy this known problem. Why not have that optional incentive to get better at the game make people want to do at least thordan ex, or go into savage if it could mean they could get a relic faster?

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Why could the Relic not take on both forms of Midcore as well as Grindy content?

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

Why cant we have 2 paths? the less skilled approach or the raid approach?

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Coil drops law or poetics depending on which turn you complete. Ravana and Bismarck Ex drop law and older Extremes drop poetics. There is already a midcore solution to your problem. You don't have to do a single Alex NM or hunt or daily quest or map.

Also I'm a bit surprised about so many people bringing up Hydra and Chimera. Did doing 2 trials once really make much of a difference in the grind from base relic to Zeta? Bear in mind, Garuda, Ifrit and Titan were not relic-exclusive content just like Alex NM isn't either.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

What the community wants is to have f-

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We don't use the F word around here

http://i.imgur.com/RvH8JlX.jpg

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Problem is once a piece of new content is played once it becomes old content. That's a fact. Keeping all the content viable is important to the health of the game. That's not to say that something new in the way of trials similar to hydra and chimera would not have been welcomed. On the other hand one just needs to look around to see how many are doing relic. The response on my server seems to be overwhelming both in party finder and in my free company.

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Doesn't mean all of them enjoy it. Plus there's the fact there's little else to do for people who want to keep playing for one reason or another.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Coil drops law or poetics depending on which turn you complete. Ravana and Bismarck Ex drop law and older Extremes drop poetics. There is already a midcore solution to your problem. You don't have to do a single Alex NM or hunt or daily quest or map.

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Doesn't answer the issue of 'why do that when there are alternatives that reward just as much, but way faster, and easier?'

You entirely missed the point.

There should be a larger tangible reward for people who choose to do difficult content. There is none.

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Originally Posted by Reilyn

Doesn't mean all of them enjoy it. Plus there's the fact there's little else to do for people who want to keep playing for one reason or another.

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Well obviously you don't. That's not to say they aren't. Stop projecting YOUR OPINION on everyone. The fact is that relic has been very well received from a player standpoint doing it. I suppose you need to take a poll to find out but you really don't know now do you.

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Originally Posted by Reilyn

Doesn't answer the issue of 'why do that when there are alternatives that reward just as much, but way faster, and easier?'

You entirely missed the point.

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I thought people didn't mind the grind taking long. That's what everyone keeps saying. So are they in fact asking for a quick way past the grind? Cause that would defeat the purpose of the relic, as announced by Yoshi-P. It's supposed to take time.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Well obviously you don't. That's not to say they aren't. Stop projecting YOUR OPINION on everyone. The fact is that relic has been very well received from a player standpoint doing it. I suppose you need to take a poll to find out but you really don't know now do you.

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I'm not projecting my opinion on everyone. I never said 'no one likes the relic' because I know that's wrong. Are you really going to try to convince people that everyone doing the relic likes it? Because 1: that's inherently wrong, and 2: you can't prove it either.

There are obviously people out there doing the relic that don't enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Reilyn

I'm not projecting my opinion on everyone. Are you really going to try to convince people that everyone doing the relic likes it? Because 1: that's inherently wrong, and 2: you can't prove it either.

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I'm not trying to convince anyone, that is what YOU ARE TRYING to do. Just look at party finder to see who is doing what. The fact that the response is overwhelming says something.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Well obviously you don't. That's not to say they aren't. Stop projecting YOUR OPINION on everyone. The fact is that relic has been very well received from a player standpoint doing it. I suppose you need to take a poll to find out but you really don't know now do you.

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They didn't? All they said was that not everyone doing the relic actually enjoys it. That is true, not every one does. I am sure some do.

It's funny, because every one I know in game is totally skipping or holding out on the relic. I can't even find 7 other people among my static, linkshells, friends and FC to join me in Alex to farm some items. I actually haven't been able to get 1 person to join me. Everyone has differing experiences though.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Coil drops law or poetics depending on which turn you complete. Ravana and Bismarck Ex drop law and older Extremes drop poetics. There is already a midcore solution to your problem. You don't have to do a single Alex NM or hunt or daily quest or map.

Also I'm a bit surprised about so many people bringing up Hydra and Chimera. Did doing 2 trials once really make much of a difference in the grind from base relic to Zeta? Bear in mind, Garuda, Ifrit and Titan were not relic-exclusive content just like Alex NM isn't either.

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You know you make a good point, law and poetics were a great way to encourage people to use other content to obtain items. I know many people are unsyncing coil clears for this reason. That said, the reward and speed of grind should not be slower for this method. Unless you have the bonus, it certainly is slower. They could either do this by upping the poetic/law reward from these, or adding another way of obtaining items. I think using the systems and tokens in place is a better method (i.e. 5 RavEX/BisEX tokens = 1 item, 5-10x Carbontwine = 1 item, 5-10x Carboncoat = 1 item, 25 Alexandrite = 1 item etc.) Note: They would need to make carboncoat/twine not load on unsynced parties, or find an alternative method of incorporating this content.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I thought people didn't mind the grind taking long. That's what everyone keeps saying. So are they in fact asking for a quick way past the grind? Cause that would defeat the purpose of the relic, as announced by Yoshi-P. It's supposed to take time.

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I also defeats the purpose of their most recent content by not rewarding players who run it nearly as much as it should. My suggestion is to put larger material rewards behind something at least as difficult as A1S; something that you know not everyone can do, or is willing to do. It'll still take alot of time for much of the player base, just like titan hm was back in 2.0 while still leaving the alternative grind path in tact.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I'm not trying to convince anyone, that is what YOU ARE TRYING to do. Just look at party finder to see who is doing what. The fact that the response is overwhelming says something.

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Here's the difference between you, and someone who reads my posts:

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

They didn't? All they said was that not everyone doing the relic actually enjoys it. That is true, not every one does. I am sure some do.

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Btw layla, PFs for it =/= proof of people having fun. Just so you know

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I thought people didn't mind the grind taking long. That's what everyone keeps saying. So are they in fact asking for a quick way past the grind? Cause that would defeat the purpose of the relic, as announced by Yoshi-P. It's supposed to take time.

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I take issue with this mostly because the point of the relic taking time is not because it's a powerful, unique, interesting piece of gear, but rather because SE is seeking to milk subscription dollars out of what is otherwise a very noticeable content dearth.

It's not a coincidence that this was pushed out shortly after 3.1 was a flop, I'm willing to guarantee.

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Originally Posted by Reilyn

Btw layla, PFs for it =/= proof of people having fun. Just so you know

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In fact I would argue almost the opposite. The main reason for PFing a party is so that you can clear the content as fast as possible, and not that you can then enjoy the content. If the content was enjoyable by so many, these people would more than likely be running it with their FC mates, statics and/or friends. However, finding people is difficult, and DF is slow (because noobs), so people create PFs so they can farm it as fast as possible and get it over with.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I take issue with this mostly because the point of the relic taking time is not because it's a powerful, unique, interesting piece of gear, but rather because SE is seeking to milk subscription dollars out of what is otherwise a very noticeable content dearth.

It's not a coincidence that this was pushed out shortly after 3.1 was a flop, I'm willing to guarantee.

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Meanwhile the relic and diadem have been putting nails into the content coffin by giving players even less reason to run alexander savage when it could have been as simple as put more precision tokens in alexander savage, or gordian manifest trade ins.

I know I sound like a broken record, and I am sorry, but it needs to be said.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Relic = 2nd set of 210 Weapons (Grind and Solo)
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it's not solo though you need a ton of gil or a bunch of different crafters either way you need other people to do this step. So if you aren't rich or don't have crafting friends you are SoL

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

..law and poetics were a great way to encourage people to use other content to obtain items. ...the reward and speed of grind should not be slower for this method. Unless you have the bonus, it certainly is slower. [/I]

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So much this.
Yes, you get poetics and law from doing Coils, CT, Frontline, other things. But they are only slightly more utilized than they were before 3.15, and mostly through party finder because of the new bonus. Why? Because it is not the absolute most-efficient way. And we know how this goes - mmo players will always defect to the most efficient way. That's Alex. That's why 90% of people grinding the relic are spamming it and not doing old content for tomes. It has the double-efficiency of items + tomes that nothing else has.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

As a lot of other players have said, the spirit of relic was something from FFXI. It took long time to create but were awesome weapons to have.

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Problem: they aren't awesome or special in any way.

They have a unique model but other than that they are just a run of the mill item with an item level of [X] that gets invalidated every patch that brings a new item level [x+10].

Imho: long time grinds + obsolete at the next DEVs convenience don't mix.