Please don't put us all in the same basket. Most Dragoons are totally fine with what we have, and even us find this subject overkill for nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisersoke
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09-30-2015, 04:36 AMSpayd
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09-30-2015, 04:53 AMMisutoraruto be honest, if both skills are unlock at 56 or 58 and give 1 more extra skill, many of us will be much happierQuote:
Originally Posted by Spayd
yet, it does feel the developers are out of idea when making this two skills on 56 and 58
each class have their own issues, it is welcome to start a thread and discuss
but it is irrelevant in this thread -
09-30-2015, 05:01 AMsiverstormHe literally responded with that well after my comment saying I'm fine with it too lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Spayd
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -
09-30-2015, 05:24 AMwhiskeybravoIt's easy to say that after the fact, but we don't have any idea what the devs actually discussed or had in mind when designing the BotD system. It's well known that DRG was the best melee dps coming out of expac, could you imagine what kind of nerfs we would have had if they gave us another jump or dps type ability instead of splitting fc/wt? Would you be more excited about DRG if the new BotD mechanic's contribution to our dps was half what it is now (with the same amount of effort) as long we had another button to spam every 30-60 sec (or longer..)? Just think about it for a minute..Quote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
From the outside looking in it doesn't immediately make sense.. But if you look at it logically, from 1-2-3 step perspective it actually works really well. 1) new buff 2) intro to new rotation to maintain buff 3) mastery of rotation.
But.. "Complexity for the sake of complexity is bad". What are mechanics? Those things that make fights hard. Sure, SE could design a raid or trail or dungeon where all you do is stand there and whack away for 10 mins until it's dead. No mechanics. No random debuffs. No tank swaps. Hell no aoe or tank busters. Sound like fun? Not really.. It's only complex as you allow it to be. If you don't want to hit positionals, then don't. If you want to be high end damage contributor, then you'll hit them. It's not complexity for complexity's sake, it's complexity to do high-end damage which mostly every job shares. -
09-30-2015, 05:34 AMMisutorarugiving FC, WT at same level is still splitting them into 2, and still adding RNG into the positioning and rotationQuote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
nothing change, but 1 extra jump or whatever skill wouldnt hurt
i think you get me wrong
i m not saying merging FC and WT into 1 skill
but keep FC WT separate, yet they are unlock at the same level and the nature of the 2 skills remain unchange
add addition skill to fill the gap 56/58 which ever
that might boost up the DPS even further, but class balance is not the main discussion in this thread
and dont have issue with current FC WT setting, just i would be feeling much happier if they are given out at same level and a totally different skill unlocked for next stage -
09-30-2015, 05:39 AMDante_V
The main discussion of this thread is why is x move given at x point. And the answer was to get you used to the rotation change and then introduce you to the final mechanic at the end. It's really simple. TBH the DRG rotation is easier than it was before imo to the point were it almost seems like it needs a nerf and they already buffed the proc misses. I'm leveling up my second drg and it's by far the easiest melee in the game.
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09-30-2015, 05:49 AMRiceisNiceIt achieves differentiation of DRG's playstyle rather than simply being another 1-2-3-4 combo class. If people are complaining about WT not doing anything different, they'll sure as hell complain it anyway regardless of if the 4th combo extension was random or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitoseijuro
And as someone mentioned earlier, it'd also bring into concern the balance of powers/utility between all the dps classes, considering DRG is already among the strongest melee with arguably the best utility that guarantees them a raid slot as much as a BRD/MCH and WAR.
Like this right here, DRG doesn't need any more damage or utility for that matter. Unless you want them to literally slap on a skill that has no practical use like paeon or feint. On paper, having a 4th skill that'll finish no matter what with no circumstances attached to it, which can extend your buff that increases your overall dps, is honestly quite boring and OP'd on paper. The split would be needed to address that to at least necessitate some sort of situation awareness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
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09-30-2015, 06:05 AMMisutorarui honestly dont mind they give me a feint IIQuote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
it is not about "rational"
it is the feeling that unlocking FC, WT at 56 58 which literally do the same thing with different position, it feel "SE could do better than that"
even it is a useless feint II, i still feel "wow something new" -
09-30-2015, 06:15 AMHouston009
I highly, highly doubt you would feel "wow something new". Getting Smoke Screen and The Warden's Paeon felt nothing of the sort, and they'd be more useful than a Feint II.
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09-30-2015, 06:27 AMwhiskeybravoMost of what I said wasn't directed at you specifically, just more in general complaining about the complaining lol. I mean, yea, we could have had something better. But I don't want to assume whatever they could've given us would be better than what we have. I certainly wouldn't want a Feint II lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
And no, balance is not the point of this thread, but if we are throwing around stuff like "there could have been a different ability", then balance does come into the discussion, because we can't have it all. And while I do understand where most people are coming from with their complaints, after sitting back and looking at it objectively, I think the way they implemented it is the best way they could have implemented it. It's not too much at once, you have time to adjust (rewire your muscle memory) to a 4th hit, and then towards lv60 (when it matters) you get the full feel for how the mechanic works, and most importantly time to get used to it all. So I think they did a good job in that regard. -
09-30-2015, 06:38 AMRiceisNiceBeing on the receiving end of this, especially for post 50 skills, I will tell you right now, this will not be the case. Between "adding complexity for the sake of it" and "adding skills for the sake of it", the latter is a bigger waste of data space honestly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
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09-30-2015, 06:42 AMCabalabob
Adding WT at 56 and a new ability at 58 doesn't mean the new ability would have to be a new dps ability to be something useful. How about spirit barrier: damage is inflicted upon MP instead of HP, wears off when MP is depleted. Something that would help DRG survive an AoE if they jumped right as one got used, or allow them to tank an add. This would at least have been something that would add to the job in a beneficial way.
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09-30-2015, 06:49 AMPluviaWouldn't even get a useful ability at most you would get something stupid dragoons are already tanky as it is. SE won't give them another defensive CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabalabob
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09-30-2015, 06:52 AMSubucnimorningDRG already has the best survivability out of the melee classes...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabalabob
DRG doesn't need anything that could add any utility or dps to their job at the moment, already clear cut #1 melee class. This is such a blown up thing that isn't a big deal at all. NIN wishes their biggest problem with the job is they have a RNG set of abilities at 56 and 58 and somehow feel cheated because they didn't get a different ability at 58. -
09-30-2015, 07:20 AMwhiskeybravoI'll give you an A for creativity on that xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Cabalabob
IDK about the likelihood of something like that, though. Like, I have almost 15k HP with food in raid, add another 4k effective HP onto that and we'd have more hp than most tanks lol. As for another defensive CD, it doesn't really fit the mantra of Alex savage considering most AOE are designed to be one shot moves. A1 laser, (not sure how much resin hits for if you stand in the aoe, but the dot damage is pretty high). A2 jagd doll aoe are one shot even for tanks. A3 aoe will kill you too. Not sure about a4 but I'd imagine it's close to the same. Nearly every aoe in Rav Ex adds vulnerability.. So the trend will likely continue.. Second wind and bloodbath are enough to survive most things you might accidentally be caught in, though I do think a more powerful self heal would be good and very much welcomed, as with some way to spend our giant MP pool. -
09-30-2015, 07:52 AMLeonus
LEAVE THE DEAD HORSE ALONE!!! PLEASE!!!!! IT DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE TREATED THIS WAY!!!! lol
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09-30-2015, 10:12 AMMetalwrath
This thread just sums up the general opinion on dragoons.As noobs who picked the class becuase it was easy and now cry because it has more positions.
It's the most popular dps class probably but look at whats happend due to Dragoons acting like babies.Heavy thrust used to have to be from flank to get the damage.People moaned over and over and it got changed to not having to flank for bonus.
Then you have fang and wheel.People cried so much over 2 easy positions and devs gave goon a huge buff meaning you don't even have to bother on position.
Dragoon is the most overpowered dps class in game and still people crying about how it needs changes.It's one of the easiest dps classes to play if not the easiest.It's about on par with Bard in terms of difficulty. -
09-30-2015, 01:29 PMRapBreonDRG already most survivable. And knowing when to press jump in a fight is integral to mastering the class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabalabob
Your suggestion is making DRG easier; the complete antithesis of BOTD.
Levelling DRG is awkward by default. BOTD is weird without F&C, WT and most importantly Geirskogul. -
09-30-2015, 03:03 PMMrCookTMNo amount of goon tears in the world is able to match the qq you're doing over nin lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaisersoke
Sry, completely offtopic, but I couldn't resist. ^^ -
09-30-2015, 08:13 PMSekundessounetQuote:
Originally Posted by Metalwrath
Those changes are justified. Heavy Thrust's buff is central in the Dragoon rotation and if a mechanic doesn't allow us to be from the flank (for example Ravana EX), you're screwed. Same for FaC and WT.
And i disagree with the "now you can ignore positionnal lol". Ignoring positional mean you loose 70 (HT) + 50 (CT) + 100 (4th) + 100 (4th) = 320 potency on your opener as of today.
Before the last buff it was 500 potency loss, and losing 500 because of mechanic is silly. Now you still lose potency because of mechanics, but it's less painful. -
09-30-2015, 09:23 PMjellyboom
You must be learned to boss mechanic to use flank atacks. My main monk and i have never seen any problem to flank atack whatever boss fight.
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09-30-2015, 10:27 PMSekundessounet
I don't say it's a problem.
Ravana EX is the best example (and one on the main reason DRG got a buff) : When he use his attack that need you to hit him from the flank, you have your 4th proc and it's a WT, well you're screwed. Not a matter of skill or knowing mechanics, it's a matter of RNJesus showing his middle finger to you XD
So that's the point, DRG like MNK are still punished for not respecting positionnal. But it don't have to be this painful, especially the 190 potency loss on the 4th tier combo when 3.0 came out (and the Heavy Thrust buff procing only when you're on the flank prior to 2.4).
Some changes were a little too overwhelming like Impulse Drive who should have been given the same treatment as Heavy Thrust (180 from behind, 100 from other directions). -
09-30-2015, 10:50 PMDuelleThat's a huge stretch of logic. Complexity in encounters is an entirely different beast from complexity in gameplay. Encounter mechanics affect everyone and depending on how they're presented can still be fun while still not really directly affecting gameplay. Even if you don't like a specific encounter mechanic, you only see it in one spot in the game and move on. Gameplay complexity is a lot trickier, since you're stuck with it forever unlike mechanics in an encounter that may be unfavorable to your job. That and you HAVE to be the type of person that likes that sort of thing. If you aren't, you're SOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
This is a flawed premise. You don't have the "option" of not hitting positionals because your damage is balanced around them. The only way such an option would exist would be for the DPS discrepancy between a DRG not hitting positionals and a DRG hitting positionals being something like 5%. And if that were the case you'd have people complaining that they don't feel recognized and special enough for hitting positionals or something like that.Quote:
It's only complex as you allow it to be. If you don't want to hit positionals, then don't. If you want to be high end damage contributor, then you'll hit them. It's not complexity for complexity's sake, it's complexity to do high-end damage which mostly every job shares.
As far as BotD, its implementation is very much complexity for its own sake. I just think the fact they implemented it as a timer is tacky to say the least. The fact it only interacts with jumps and it only matters because of F&C/WT/Geirskogul makes it seem rather inelegant. It's a good concept but it would have been implemented better. Imagine if BotD had been implemented as a sort of super meter that filled up when you combo'd attacks, with F&C and WT as simply closers to Full Thrust and Chaos Thrust, respectively (thus not requiring BotD). Once the meter fills up, all actions performed (weapon skills, damage abilities like jump, off-GCD abilities and buffs like Spirit Surge) would drain on the meter with Geirskogul consuming the most out of all skills until the meter bottoms out (drained by actions rather than over time). In exchange, BotD mode would increase jump potencies by 15% and damage dealt by weapon skills by 5% (these numbers are placeholders).
On the side of benefits, you wouldn't have to worry about BotD dropping during phase transitions. You'd also set up future skills that could share a cooldown with Geirskogul with their own effects (maybe a single-target ultra jump that you'd gain during 4.0). DRG would still stand out as the only melee job with 4-step combos. Lastly, the RNG guessing game (which was not something everyone was going to like) wouldn't be there, and instead would be replaced by a rigid rotation while in BotD mode. Not sure if that would be better than what you have here, though. -
09-30-2015, 11:20 PMRiceisNiceThe matter of fact is, this is a bit tricky to handle because this is a new expansion that's supposed to expand on the characters. It'd be an incredibly lazy design if it was straight up another buff with no interaction to their skillset outside of a damage increase; it doesn't change or evolve a DRG plays in 2.0. Some work out (enochian, aethertrial, BotD), while others don't carelessness expand on the class but fill in their short comings (meditation), and others try to but fail on it (WM, paladin's damage).Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
Regardless of how it interacts, their overall dps would have to be balanced around it. And honestly, boosting their jump damage by a significant amount would be much better than increasing all damage dealt by 3~5% (to keep it in line with dps balance), and you don't want it to simply be another heavy thrust.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
You mean like warrior wrath stacks, esp when they are fully capable as any other dps class through deliverance and abandon stacks, making it even more of a redundant comparison between two jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
Honestly speaking, whether it's 3 or 4 combo hit doesn't mean much because that's literally just an extra button to press. The RNG guessing game isn't even that bad considering MCH have it (to a stronger degree no less outside of reload) and the fact that it practically dictates what attack you can and can't use (both WT and FnC are blacked out until you get the buff for one oir the other, and only that one gets highlighted) so there's absolutely no possibility for you to "hit the wrong skill" and mess up your rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
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09-30-2015, 11:37 PMjellyboom
Sorry I dont know oldest content. I started ffxiv at 3.0 :D You are right, punishing is too much for melee class when learn the combat mech. it can be decreased.
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10-01-2015, 04:12 AMwhiskeybravoHuh? You absolutely have the option. Didn't say anything about it being optimal, and that's kind of the point. If RNG positionals are too complicated, too cumbersome, use up too much space on hotbars, etc. then don't hit them, pretty simple. Doesn't mean you're going to have a spot in a serious raiding group. Even besides that, if you think something FC/WT is cumbersome or complicated, or whatever, I highly doubt you'd last long in savage anyways. If you just want to run dungeons and trials with friends, aren't a serious raider, then who is forcing you to hit them? Not SE.. Not anybody..Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
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10-01-2015, 04:22 AMKaisersokeapparently making a point about how dragoons have very good synergy and power is qqing now? get over yourself, you disrespectful kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCookTM
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10-01-2015, 08:30 AMDuelleThis is a fair point, and I'll keep it in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
This comparison would hold if my suggestion worked like wrath, except it doesn't. Once Wrath V is achieved your next move consumes everything. Assuming my BotD bar had 100 units with every action performed once the bar is filled consuming 5/10 points and Geirskogul consuming 15/20 points until it bottoms out, it'd make it more like Wildfire rather than Wrath (since you'd have to perform certain actions to maximize DPS within the number of "moves" the bar would allow you to perform). Of course you could add further modifiers like F&C/WT refunding some of the bar while still leading to the inevitable conclusion of the bar bottoming out (this does create lapses in DPS since your DPS would go up while in BotD and drop back to ARR levels outside of it).Quote:
You mean like warrior wrath stacks, esp when they are fully capable as any other dps class through deliverance and abandon stacks, making it even more of a redundant comparison between two jobs.
I'll admit the idea was partly inspired by the super meters in Melty Blood in combination with an idea I had for Darkness that didn't pan out.
This is where we get subjective. A job having 4-step combos at least to me would make it different from its counterparts, and I wouldn't call it an extra button to push because there's a direct result to you pushing the button on its own (stabbing things for damage). It's not like Dark Arts that does nothing by itself and has to be used in conjunction with other things to have actual worth.Quote:
Honestly speaking, whether it's 3 or 4 combo hit doesn't mean much because that's literally just an extra button to press.
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10-01-2015, 09:21 AMArienalThere is no point to it. its a bullcrap mechanic that was thrown in as lazy design just to add another positional. the term i believe is called 'button bloating', all they did was copy/paste one attack onto two buttons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabalabob
No, they dont. the vast majority of content in this game right now is nothing more than a series of DPS checks, you dont meet the check, you fail the content, period. saying that the average playerbase, aka non-savage runners, are essentially blocked from content purely because they dont have the time/drive/whatever that serious raiders do is heavily flawed. having to fight both the battle mechanics, AND your own job abilities is absurd. SE wants a mechanics heavy game? thats fine, by all means make it mechanic heavy. but then going so far as to implement job ability sets for multiple jobs, not JUST drg where you are losing a considerable amount of dps in content thats one big dps race..it's absurd, no other way to put it.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
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10-01-2015, 09:23 AMRiceisNiceThis is more or less how BotD already functions, only on a smaller scale with WT/FnC boosting the duration and Gerkisoul depleting it. A fourth combo extension enables another thing, 200+ potency attacks before you need to hit the basic 150 potency one. It's not necessarily something you want the class to have access to at all times, unless their overall numbers were tuned around it (which either means the 4th less does a noticeable amount less than the third hit, or losing out the secondary buffs from BotD such as the damage boost to jumps).Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
And even then, it's still in the same concept of wrath, regardless of how much of what gets consumed and whether or not you get persistent buffs for having the bar active. The difference needs to come from it's application (activating and maintaining vs generating and consuming)
Having played all classes to level 50, a 4th hit in the combo is nothing worth writing home to, at least for the context of evolving a job for the expansion. We can leave it being a subjective thing, but it's still just an extra button to push without any additive effects attached to it (that's what I meant in my context of just an extra button to hit). That's more on something you'd get on the leveling process, not expanding the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
Even something like Dark Arts is a unique perk to DRK where they can use up their resources to add an additional property to their next applicable skill (which honestly, I thought they'd do that sort of thing with MCH ammo instead of having it only applicable to two skills in their entire kit) -
10-01-2015, 10:58 PMwhiskeybravoIf we didn't have the option then it would likely be the most complained about thing on this forum. It already was complained about and changed.. You guys have clearly lost your marbles. How annoying would it be if hitting FC or WT out of positional didn't at least extend your timer, this would be even more debilitating than loss of potency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arienal
You seem to not be differentiating the ability to do something vs the ability to do something well. So, it's OK for you guys to admit it's not necessary. I've provided the math on previous complaint threads that even hitting every FC/WT out of position, just maintaining the timer for GK and Jump damage boost, it's still a dps gain over the old rotation. Is the most dps ever from a drg? No, I never claimed such. But to repeatedly say people don't have the option to not hit positionals, when quite frankly there is at least one situation in every encounter where it's possible to miss a positional due to mechanics or boss movement. The world does not end.. -
10-01-2015, 11:32 PMRiceisNiceAnd just to add onto this, having hard requirements for positional (that is, you hit for 100 potency, no buffs and no combo extension as a result) is something that can be blocked by fight mechanics. FCoB became a very clear example of that when it came to T11 for DRGs pre-change. With that context, it becomes a much bigger beast when we're talking "doing ok vs doing well" vs "doing poorly vs doing well" because the situation can be taken out of the player's control when it comes to boss mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
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10-01-2015, 11:33 PMHitoseijuro^ Pretty much , but so many people here are actually arguing for it like its some great innovation to the job and it makes it interesting or keep it from being old and boring. I'm sorry but if adding a useless ability into a mechanic and forcing it to be needed to be useful due to randomness keeps the job from being boring ....then this job is not for you. Putting in WT and making it random with FnC does not make this job interesting to play.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Arienal
Either do away with WT or do away with the randomness. The randomness in itself confirms that WT was a useless addition to the mechanic because it implies that FnC can proc for either chaos or full thrust combo thus confirming that FnC can accomplish everything that it needs to for both combo chains on top of still extend BoTD timer... ie you didnt need WT. -
10-01-2015, 11:38 PMSubucnimorningI guess I shouldn't play the class then given the above from someone with a level 54 Dragoon...who hasn't even experienced the abilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitoseijuro
The random aspect actually does make it interesting and makes you have to pay attention instead of mindlessly going through the same set rotation repeatedly. -
10-01-2015, 11:54 PMHitoseijuroYes, I totally need to experience WT in order to understand that its need for dragoon and it offers a total new experience that Im missing out not having dragoon to 60...Quote:
Originally Posted by Subucnimorning
How does it make you pay attention more than you already do.....its a random proc that you KNOW is going to occur.....its either one or the other there is no SURPRISE to pay attention, as soon as you finish chaos or full thrust, you KNOW its going to be FnC or WT....yes its random but you KNOW its going to be either two...
Blm and bard at 50 made you pay attention because fire and thunder procs happened without warning, blood letter procs had you pay attention to optimally weave it with your rotation because if you had a high crit rate your procs would sometimes happen back to back and other times nothing. -
10-02-2015, 12:23 AMRiceisNiceExcept in regards to BLM and BRD, both procs always lead to the same abilties and you didn't have to adjust your positioning to accomidate. If anything, it's a bit more clumsy than DRG because they can't play re-actively to the procs more often than not, especially BRD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitoseijuro
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10-02-2015, 02:26 AMJackFrossBefore 3.0, in absolutely every content that was in the game, I could essentially AFK dps it. I had my rotation down so well that my tab targets would happen instantly, I was hitting skills exactly when and where I needed to without ever needing to really look at my skill bar. Muscle memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitoseijuro
Dragoon was literally the only job that had this ability. It was rote and required you to pay absolutely 0 attention to anything other than mechanics - which is why I was always baffled by DRGs dying to mechanics, but that's a story for another time.
FaC and WT add a layer of complexity to an incredibly simple class. Yeah it's shitty that we waste two skills out of five just to add this layer, but I don't really understand the open hostility. It's not lazy design, it's a purposeful choice to make the class slightly more dynamic while maintaining the heart of the job - its relatively rote nature. The addition doesn't drastically change the way you play. That's... exactly the point. It doesn't alter gameplay, it doesn't make the class harder, it makes it different. It makes you actually pay attention to your skills, sometimes, if you want to maximize how much damage you're doing. It's not required to even look at if you just wanna play Dragoon. You can macro the two skills together and hit that one button every time without caring about positionals and you'll do just fine, overall. (Thanks to the buff, since 100 v 290 was stupid)
It adds a layer of complexity between skill floor and skill ceiling for the class. A layer that varies based on what fight you're in. It's incredibly good. People who love the class should adore this change. It helps to separate the good dragoons from the great ones, since there's rarely a situation where you're FORCED to miss positionals in the current raid tier, but there are dozens of situations where it's tricky to make sure you maintain them, what with spinning bosses in A1S or massive mob groups in A2S or the various mechanics in A3S that force you to be in certain places at certain times to not wipe.
It's good because it's not a HUGE DPS loss to miss every positional, but it's enough that you'll notice.
So I dunno. Think what you will, but I would never agree that the decision was lazy or dumb, and there's no skill I'd rather get at 58. Our DPS is high enough. What more do we need that you'd give us in place of WT? -
10-02-2015, 03:31 AMHitoseijuroThats one of the points people are making , hence some of the comments of it being a "lazy design". Theres probably a lot of ways they could have made this type of mechanic better. So basically you have WT which is a mirror of FnC and the only way to have it in the game is through this randomness mechanic. I mean if they added something more to WT, I feel the design would feel better. Again it just feels like you juggle these 2 abilities....just to juggle them..you can say an interesting mechanic, other people are saying an irrelevant juggle.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFross
No hostility on my end, I respect your opinion and I feel you defended your points for it just fine. People were saying that without this mechanic the job would be boring, so if the job was boring before this, why were they playing it... I play the job because I enjoy the job, the lore and the armor, adding this mechanic is not going to change that. It does make me wonder why they didn't implement this mechanic different then they did, WT could have been different in some way from FnC perhaps. Maybe the animations could have been done in a way to reflect a relationship between both abilities, I would have enjoyed that much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFross
I dont know to be honesty, Dragoon is fine with whatever could have been there, because its fine now, Dragoon is in a good place right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFross
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10-02-2015, 03:50 AMJackFross
Open hostility wasn't referring to anyone's attitude toward the discussion; I was referencing the hostility with which many people greet the FaC/WT dynamic. So many people rage about it and whine about it and I just don't really understand why. All of the arguments for why it's bad seem really weak compared to what I outlined for why it's good, so meh.
And, yeah. I was hoping it'd be TTT>FaC and IDC>WT, with each of the two skills being +15s on BotD along with special secondary effects depending which one it was. But once it was implemented the way it is, I prefer that to what I just explained. What secondary effects would we be hoping for, really, that we'd even want or need without it making Dragoon even MORE useful than it already is? Battle Litany + second-best standstill dps + 10% buff to BRD/MCH put us right at the top of the DPS totem pole as a class which is almost necessary in any raid group. What added effects could FaC and WT seriously have that would do anything other than propel us to the point where that "almost" fades away?
And that's the issue, which is why I prefer how it is~ -
10-02-2015, 04:46 AMSekuIf you're afk dpsing means you're using macros which iirc actually kills your DPS despite getting the rotations and positional correctly. The rest of what you're saying is pure opinion. Moving 2 steps isn't complexity to me in the least and there are plenty of ways to move your hot bar around to get a clear visual of which skill is currently up, more so since they highlight. If any class is "complex" it's ninja if you don't macro your mudras. This skill serves no purpose. If you're claiming it's there due to "complexity" I pray you're not a main DRG, MNK, or NIN.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFross