Dragoon buffs and Ninja nerfs coming Dec 9th in patch 2.45

Anyone else remember when people said bards low DPS was justified because they had utility?

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Originally Posted by Zelter

Just giving my bit as a DRG, the DPS a DRG does is currently terrible. It's sub-par. There's no reason to choose a DRG over any other DPS class currently because DRG can't do anything better than anyone else. It's outdamaged by both SMN and BLM (as far as I'm aware), while being an MDPS. It's versatility consists of 10% piercing damage increase (for itself and, oh, bards) and 2 stuns (which should never be needed, because that's a tanks job).

MNK has the better mantra, best DPS in-game, and a 10% INT debuff (which is awesome) but they lack utility aside from that debuff.
NIN has the ability to buff EVERY party members damage, and contests with MNK in DPS, coming close to it. NIN also has a stun, a silence, shadowflare equivalent, permanent movement speed increase, and goad.

DRG has nothing compaired to that. It's currently a useless class. It's needed this buff for a long time. Personally DRG should out-DPS a NIN, purely based on the utility NIN has. Regardless, I'm looking forward to the buff, but NIN will always be a valid choice because of its versatility, and MNK for its DPS.

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So much misinformation I don't even..

All new jobs start out 'too strong'. I remember when SMN was OP too, and we were smashed with the nerf bat a few months into 2.0. I comforted all of my melee friends with this knowledge; "Don't worry, they'll do the same thing to ninja. Give it time." Yep... Hey, well ninja will still be GOOD, just not OP.

As long as they don't nerf the ninja to the ground..I am perfectly ok with this.

I'm personally upset with this, cause I went from Bard to Ninja, it's way more fun, and it likely will be fun, but our group's bard is going to hate this TP adjustment thing. He hates singing. If anything this is going to bring bards down too since they'll have to give ninja's TP now.

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Originally Posted by Zelter

NIN also has a stun, a silence, shadowflare equivalent, permanent movement speed increase, and goad. Considering all this versitility, it shouldn't be next to MNK in DPS. NIN is not fine as it is now.

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We have to choose between the stun or the silence its not like we can do both whenever we want and the movement speed makes up for lack of gap closers. I fail to see where all this "versatility" comes from when most of what your stating is there to make up for things that other classes have and NIN does not.

I'll still play NIN regardless of nerfs, I have a feeling it'll end up being over the top and end up putting the class where DRG currently resides because of lack of information.

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Originally Posted by Tribunus

We have to choose between the stun or the silence its not like we can do both whenever we want

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Able to switch out your poisons between abilities. It's not like Paladin's Oaths where you have to waste a GCD for it.

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Originally Posted by Tribunus

and the movement speed makes up for lack of gap closers.

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You have an instant teleportation skill that teleports you anywhere. Yes, it has a longer CD, but similar abilities have restrictions, while this one has not. And it's not like you need to "close the gap" multiple times every 60 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Tribunus

I fail to see where all this "versatility" comes from when most of what your stating is there to make up for things that other classes have and NIN does not.

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See above

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Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

Oh noes, MNK's feeling the pressure from NIN's? "NERF THEM! SO OP!"

SE LEAVE NIN ALONE IT'S FINE THE WAY IT IS!!

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Last I checked, it was the DRG community begging for either buffs or for NIN to be nerfed. Both are happening.

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

So much misinformation I don't even..

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It's all well and good saying that, but if you don't back it up with any form of evidence from anywhere, no one is going to learn.

You're welcome to provide the evidence that proves otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Damun

I'm personally upset with this, cause I went from Bard to Ninja, it's way more fun, and it likely will be fun, but our group's bard is going to hate this TP adjustment thing. He hates singing. If anything this is going to bring bards down too since they'll have to give ninja's TP now.

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Don't forget MNK still (if ever unless it's T8) needs TP song too. It's actually not going to change at all from what it currently is.

All seems fine to me. Only thing I didn't like was se trying to state ninja is as strong as it is because it is difficult to play.

What?

Do you even monk/drg mate?

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Originally Posted by Zelter

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So you're crying to nerf a class because another class is bad? That isn't how it works, or at least it SHOULDN'T be how it works. You buff the other class to keep up with it. I agree drg should either match or out dps ninja, but at the same time ninjas aren't op right now anyway, just strong. Dragoons are weak, it was my main for a long time so I know it's glaring problems. But I don't call for nerfs to ninja because dragoon is weak. I wanted buffs for dragoon. Dragoon was weak LONG before ninja was a thing, all ninja (and FCoB with all it's spinning bosses and unavoidable magic damage) did was make those weaknesses more glaringly obvious.

That said, DRG, while not as strong as other melee, is HARDLY unusable in FCoB. There are DRGs clearing T13, so while they have to work harder for it, it's not like they're completely unviable right now, just not the strongest. Monk still holds that title.

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Originally Posted by Zelter

Don't forget MNK still (if ever unless it's T8) needs TP song too. It's actually not going to change at all from what it currently is.

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Have you been into FCoB? There is little to no downtime on those fights, so yes TP song will be needed in more places than just T8. That is part of why the TP nerfs are annoying, because ninja was good at managing it's own TP while being able to give TP to the mnk through goad making it so that bard doesn't have to sing increasing the bard's output. Ninja can't goad themselves so managing their own tp better was fair imo. I don't see why forcing all the classes to bottom out equally and force bard to play more paeon is a good thing at all, seems to me like it hurts the whole party. I don't see the point in Goad anymore if this change makes ninja bottom out the same as mnk because what point is there in me using goad when I'm starved on TP too? Bard will just play paeon and Goad's utility just goes away. I'd rather the bard be able to play foes more often. I hope the tp nerfs don't hurt too bad...the damage I could live with but the tp nerfs are just an awful idea.

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Originally Posted by SolarMisae

So you're crying to nerf a class because another class is bad?

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I'm not crying, I'm stating that as things currently are, NIN is too powerful in comparison to other classes. And it's true.

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Originally Posted by SolarMisae

That said, DRG, while not as strong as other melee, is HARDLY unusable in FCoB. There are DRGs clearing T13, so while they have to work harder for it, it's not like they're completely unviable right now, just not the strongest. Monk still holds that title.

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In comparison to both MNK and NIN, DRGs dps is terrible. Looking purely at statistics, there's no reason to have a DRG on the team, as you'd get more DPS out of a NIN/MNK - NIN/NIN - MNK/MNK combination. I was calling them non-viable because statistically speaking they are.

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Originally Posted by SolarMisae

Have you been into FCoB? There is little to no downtime on those fights, so yes TP song will be needed in more places than just T8. ... I don't see why forcing all the classes to bottom out equally and force bard to play more paeon is a good thing at all, seems to me like it hurts the whole party. ... I don't see the point in Goad anymore if this change makes ninja bottom out the same as mnk because what point is there in me using goad when I'm starved on TP too? Bard will just play paeon and Goad's utility just goes away. ... I hope the tp nerfs don't hurt too bad...the damage I could live with but the tp nerfs are just an awful idea.

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Nope, not yet. Looking forward to it though. Static is rather casual, going only twice a week for 2 hours. Having fun on T9 currently. So I'm not aware of the punching bags and trials of FCoB. Looking forward to it though. While you're right about goads utility, it still has partial use elsewhere like WAR spamming Overpower in a dungeon, just no practical use in raids, which I understand sucks, but TP song is going to be played regardless if all fights are punching bags, as DRG, MNK and NIN will ALL run out of TP. Hell even BRD has TP issues in punching bag fights. I don't see it affecting group DPS anymore than normal because TP song seems like it's going to be needed regardless. We'll see how the TP nerfs go though, I can't say they're good or bad because I'm not knowledgeable on the TP usage of NIN.

Regardless, DRG really did need this buff. I just hope it's enough to not be overshadowed by NIN and MNK, and becomes an option statistically speaking.

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Originally Posted by Zelter

In comparison to both MNK and NIN, DRGs dps is terrible. Looking purely at statistics, there's no reason to have a DRG on the team, as you'd get more DPS out of a NIN/MNK - NIN/NIN - MNK/MNK combination. I was calling them non-viable because statistically speaking they are.

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Obviously you do not understand the meaning of viable. As Solar has stated, there are indeed DRGs clearing t13, therefore they are viable by definition (which I have posted below for your viewing pleasure).

viable
adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Obviously you do not understand the meaning of viable. As Solar has stated, there are indeed DRGs clearing t13, therefore they are viable by definition (which I have posted below for your viewing pleasure).

viable
adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.

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This. Also, played well, DRG dps isn't really that far behind at all.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Obviously you do not understand the meaning of viable. As Solar has stated, there are indeed DRGs clearing t13, therefore they are viable by definition (which I have posted below for your viewing pleasure).

viable
adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.

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Then I'll reword myself. They're not the most efficient. Point still stands the other two are more efficient.

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

This. Also, played well, DRG dps isn't really that far behind at all.

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It's a minimum of 30 DPS behind. Seeing as BRD is around that behind DRG, yes, it's behind. You also haven't responded as to why I'm misinformed with any evidence.

Funny how NIN's need a nerf when mudra lag already does that for most people who play it.

I main Ninja, and honestly Ninjas needed the nerf. A Ninja's individual damage may have been slightly less than a Monk's, but if you account for Trick Attack and not needing to use Dancing Edge with a WAR using Storm's Eye instead, their damage is another level above Monk.

Let me use hypothetical numbers to make it easier to understand. Let's say that a NIN does 450 DPS and a MNK does 460 DPS; these are pretty reasonable numbers with i115 weapons and i110 gear. Trick Attack is just a pure DPS increase associated with having a NIN, so if your party does 2000 DPS overall (the DPS check for t10), Trick Attack adds 1550 DPS every 60 seconds to everyone except the NIN, effectively making a NIN's DPS contribution become 450+25.8=475.8 DPS. Then not having to apply Dancing Edge is basically free DPS since it's easy to just have a WAR, so that's an extra 10 DPS at least? That'd make a NIN's DPS 485.8 DPS compared to a MNK's 450, so it's around 7.8% more damage than MNK.

I think taking advantage of Trick Attack and Storm's Eye were what Yoshida was saying he did not expect in the Live Letter. He said players came up with a more efficient rotation than their playtests, and considering Ninjas are incredibly straightforward (not necessarily easy) with keeping up debuffs and DoTs while using Huton > Suiton > Raiton, I think the effective complete phase out of Dancing Edge in place of Storm's Eye + Aeolian Edge and maybe coordinating X-Potions with Trick Attack was what he was not expecting. If Yoshida were to follow this line of thinking, Aeolian Edge will be getting a higher TP cost and/or lower potency if not most Ninja actions across the board.

I just hope that in the end, Ninja's overall DPS including Storm's Eye and Trick Attack is still higher than Monk's. Dragon Kick's utility is much stronger than Goad's in my opinion, especially with the TP nerf to Ninjas. Now you can basically skip TP song by using Goad on a Monk and having the Ninja fend for itself, but after the patch even if you Goad the other DPS the Ninja will require TP song so Goad would just be a waste; Goad will only be good for DPS or tanks that die and need a TP boost.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

seems like a bandaid fix to me

increasing dot potency while reducing cd on some skills won't offer that much of a dps increase (unless they really overdo it) depending on how much they nerf ninjas, drg and nin might end up being the same effective contributed dps, but nin will still win out because of goad utility, while drg has none realistically.

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I think this is an important point. With DRGs having no utility, there are three cases that can happen: 1.) DRGs don't get buffed enough and they're still behind in damage, 2.) DRGs are just as strong as MNK/NIN but the latter are still chosen because they have more utilty, or 3.) DRG have more damage than MNK/NIN and are chosen mostly over MNK/NIN because damage is super important. DRGs need utility to be balanced well and not be binary in result.

Also, DRGs are severely behind MNK/NIN level of DPS, even BLM, and there's no reason to take a DRG over the others. Yes, DRGs are "viable," but it's also viable to do Turn 5 in i55 gear apparently. I don't know why people are still challenging whether they need a buff or not.

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Originally Posted by Mantrus

Let me use hypothetical numbers

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Sorry you lost me right here.

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Originally Posted by Zelter

TP song seems like it's going to be needed regardless. We'll see how the TP nerfs go though, I can't say they're good or bad because I'm not knowledgeable on the TP usage of NIN.

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Not true actually, our bard never plays anything but Foes because my tp management and goad makes it so we all have JUST enough by the time the fight ends. I hope the nerfs don't change the ability to not use paeon. I can completely accept slight damage nerfs actually but making goad all but useless for anyone but like a paladin or in non-raid scenarios is a bad move imo.

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Originally Posted by Zelter

Regardless, DRG really did need this buff. I just hope it's enough to not be overshadowed by NIN and MNK, and becomes an option statistically speaking.

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While I agree with this, and do think drgs needed love, I don't think they should be nerfing classes because others are weak, you just buff the weak ones.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Funny how NIN's need a nerf when mudra lag already does that for most people who play it.

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They said they are fixing the lag.

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Originally Posted by SolarMisae

While I agree with this, and do think drgs needed love, I don't think they should be nerfing classes because others are weak, you just buff the weak ones.

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It's not because that DRGs are weak that NINs get the nerf - Yoshi is not the kind to fall for people whining. Now that the issue of DRG MDEF and DPS are really noticeable due to FCoB mechanics and the presence of NINs, they do see the OPness of NINs, and like they said, players have found a better rotation that they had intended thus it threw their DPS numbers off the charts. Logically speaking NINs attacks as fast as a MNK does while dishing out DRG potency attacks, complete with a permanent 20% damage bonus that you only need to turn on and forget for the rest of the fight. The reason why MNKs are still higher in DPS is because GL3 grants 27% bonus damage compared to the Kisses' 20%, and backed up by Twin Snakes which also add another 20%.

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Originally Posted by kyrios91

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By that logic though, nerf mnk. That said I think mnk is fine as is.

Anyway just cause it's stronger than intended doesn't mean it's op. Besides, I've stated I can accept damage nerfs just fine, and do believe drgs should do more damage since ninja has more utility, but not the tp nerfs. Those make no sense at all to me. If ninja's tp nerfs make them bottom out same as mnk then it makes the utility of goad go away because why goad the mnk when you're tp starved too? Bard will just paeon. It'll only be sorta useful for paladins who run dry really fast because they only have 1 really expensive combo. Too hard a nerf on their tp will indirectly nerf their utility too and make one of their abilities near pointless.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Anyone else remember when people said bards low DPS was justified because they had utility?

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And remember when they nerfed the DPS and utility of BRD at the same time?

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Able to switch out your poisons between abilities. It's not like Paladin's Oaths where you have to waste a GCD for it.

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Sure, you can, but you still only have a silence or a stun on that 30 second CD. It's not like changing your poison resets the CD.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

And remember when they nerfed the DPS and utility of BRD at the same time?

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The previous Rain of Death utility was too powerful. 10% damage reduction simply broke any intended gear-check points for specific turns. Although admittedly, the current effect on Rain of Death is too useless.
In the end, the "nerf" on bard wasn't as bad as people expected it to be and did also affect Dragoon.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Sure, you can, but you still only have a silence or a stun on that 30 second CD. It's not like changing your poison resets the CD.

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Much like every other DPSs - and even tanks to an extend - CC ability.

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Originally Posted by SolarMisae

By that logic though, nerf mnk. That said I think mnk is fine as is.

Anyway just cause it's stronger than intended doesn't mean it's op.

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By what logic? I don't say anything against MNKs and Yoshi did said that MNKs are intended to be the #1 melee DPS because of the higher skill ceiling. And according to the FF traditions, Monks / Black Belts are usually the best DPS in a Job-based setting like FF3 and FF5, so I'm good with it. The thing with NINs is that their attack potencies are almost as high as DRGs, lower TP cost, and have an attack speed buff that is the same as GL3, 15%. So basically NINs are DRGs that attacks as fast as MNKs do, and that's pretty OP. You only need to worry about your Ninjutsus and can just faceroll attack from wherever you want while MNKs / DRGs sometimes can't do their positionals because of some AOE skills that occur on the boss' flank / rear.
Funny thing is that now DRGs finally get the things they deserved since 2.0, people start whining "OMG DRG BECOMES OP NOW AND MY NIN IS NERFED BECAUSE OF THEM". DRGs deserve every single thing they could get in 2.45 and everyone that are not biased towards NINs could see why.

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Originally Posted by hallena

They said they are fixing the lag.

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I believe it was "they would look into it", not fix it. The problem with mudra is the .5sec GCD does not read with the servers well and lags particularly in boss fights. They can either somehow magically fix people's latency with the .5sec GCD or rework how GCD's or how weaving goes with mudra to resolve the issue. Which right now, they do not have an answer for. So we will probably not for a long time see any improvement to this, and that is stacked with an apparent DPS nerf we are getting. Because Square-Enix knows how to balance things. It took them over a year to figure out that giving DRG low magic defense was actually a bad thing. Sorry, not feeling confident in their ability to balance at the moment.

If they believe MNK's damage isn't OP and NIN's is, a job that doesn't even beat MNK in numbers, I don't believe they know their own jobs that well. Only job that needed adjustment was DRG, and if they do it right, they would be on the same level as NIN and MNK on DPS. Now what we will likely see is NIN being thrown in the situation DRG is now. Could be me being over dramatic, but my history with SE and their ideas of balancing has led me to be like that.

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Originally Posted by kyrios91

Funny thing is that now DRGs finally get the things they deserved since 2.0, people start whining "OMG DRG BECOMES OP NOW AND MY NIN IS NERFED BECAUSE OF THEM". DRGs deserve every single thing they could get in 2.45 and everyone that are not biased towards NINs could see why.

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You know those are two different things, right?

I am happy that DRG is getting a buff, it's the class I started with, I have a soft spot for it and any DRG main should be happy and I am glad for them.

Doesn't mean Ninja needs a nerf. At all. There is no reason for it.

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Originally Posted by kyrios91

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By the logic of it doing slightly more/equal damage to others ninja is considered op by your logic basically. So monk brings good utility AND higher damage so it's also op and needs nerf. My point is neither one really needs a nerf because they're fine as is. Also, anyone who thinks monk's skill ceiling is really that high doesn't know the class.

You also seemed to miss where I said I was fine with damage nerfs to ninja, as I DO think drg should do more dps since ninja brings utility, it's the tp nerfs I don't like. I used to main drg so I know they needed the buff, I even personally think the buffs they are getting may not even be enough, but ninjas tp usage doesn't need to be nerfed. Depending on how bad the tp costs are post patch, the tp nerf will indirectly make goad FAR less useful, since if a ninja is bottoming out at the same time as a monk, paeon is better to use than goad. Read some of my other posts on the matter. So basically, I'm okay with some nerfs, but nerfing both their utility AND their damage is far more than needed. Just a small damage nerf would be perfectly fine along with buffing dragoons damage more.

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Originally Posted by BrokenFiend

I am happy that DRG is getting a buff, it's the class I started with, I have a soft spot for it and any DRG man should be happy and I am glad for them.

Doesn't mean Ninja needs a nerf. At all. There is no reason for it.

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Yes exactly this. *thumbsup*

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Originally Posted by Velhart

They can either somehow magically fix people's latency with the .5sec GCD or rework how GCD's or how weaving goes with mudra to resolve the issue.

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Only way i see they could "fix" it is to allow skill usage betveen mudras, tbh i was kinda sad when it wasnt like that from beginning. Also im kinda suprised we didnt see any PvP related nerfs for nin's, as that is only class i know atm that can melt all other classes in pvp even tanks and healers drops insanely fast with good CC usage.

All I can say Is yay ninja nerf. PvPing against them was absolutely retarded, there dmg output and escapability is off the charts. Absolutely baffling it made it past QaA and went live, big blunder on SE part. Bought time they bring them in line with other DPS classes.

And time to adjust us dragoons. Can t stand it anymore..hearing: no drg pls..but invite blackmage/ninja/summoner...its just unfair+ retarded this unbalance.

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Originally Posted by DenariusJay

All I can say Is yay ninja nerf. PvPing against them was absolutely retarded, there dmg output and escapability is off the charts. Absolutely baffling it made it past QaA and went live, big blunder on SE part. Bought time they bring them in line with other DPS classes.

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lol@you if you think this will do anything to pvp balance
Only if there's a massive potency nerf, in which case no one will play ninja anyway because it'll obviously be very underpowered.
They have to completely redesign the class in order to do anything about their burst.

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Originally Posted by DenariusJay

All I can say Is yay ninja nerf. PvPing against them was absolutely retarded, there dmg output and escapability is off the charts. Absolutely baffling it made it past QaA and went live, big blunder on SE part. Bought time they bring them in line with other DPS classes.

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But PvP has 0 weight on PvE, which is this game's main focus. No nerfs in this game should ever be based around PvP, and if they do, should be exclusive to ONLY PvP arenas.

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Originally Posted by ziddyt

lol@you if you think this will do anything to pvp balance
Only if there's a massive potency nerf, in which case no one will play ninja anyway because it'll obviously be very underpowered.
They have to completely redesign the class in order to do anything about their burst.

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Any nerf to there dps is welcomed to me, even if its minimal. As it stands now, they are out of control in FL and I welcome any change.

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Originally Posted by DenariusJay

Any nerf to there dps is welcomed to me, even if its minimal. As it stands now, they are out of control in FL and I welcome any change.

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I doubt its a bigger issue than you make it out to be.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

The previous Rain of Death utility was too powerful. 10% damage reduction simply broke any intended gear-check points for specific turns. Although admittedly, the current effect on Rain of Death is too useless.
In the end, the "nerf" on bard wasn't as bad as people expected it to be and did also affect Dragoon.

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I agree that RoD probably needed changing, but that it's been left useless. But they also nerfed B4B and IR, which really hampered our damage. To be fair, it also less severely nerfed MNK and DRG, but both of those got to keep their native abilities unchanged and didn't feel it as much. And as you said yourself, BRD damage was low before they nerfed it, meaning they lowered one of the lowest DPS while also hurting their utility.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Much like every other DPSs - and even tanks to an extend - CC ability.

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Umm. . .no. MNK has a 40 second stun, a 30 second stun, and a ~6 second AOE silence, though that last one costs them major dps if it's not an AOE situation. DRG has a 20 second stun and a 60 second stun. WAR has a 20 second stun. PLD has a 30 second silence and a GCD ability to stun lock, TP permitting. WHM has a 30 second duration sleep, a knockback+bind, and an AOE stun lock, MP permitting. SCH and SMN have a 5% slow effect. SMN also has a 20 second bind, and a knockback (Garuda) or 40 second stun (Ifrit or Titan). SCH also has a 40 second silence (Selene). BLM has a 30 second duration AOE sleep, 8 second duration PBAOE bind, and 15 second duration AOE bind. BRD has a 40 second recast 10 second duration bind and a 30 second silence. NIN has a 30 second stun or silence (pick one) and a 20 second recast (kinda) 15 second duration bind (Hyoton).

Now, of those, MNK will use the stuns on CD if they can, but their silence is 100 potency lost unless it's AOE. DRG will use both stuns on CD. WAR will use the stun on CD. PLD will use the silence on CD and stun as needed. WHM Fluid Aura is a dps increase against bosses immune to knockback, and Holy spam is sometimes a life saver. SCH and SMN will both Shadow Flare as often as they can unless the SCH needs to overwrite it with Sacred Soil. SMN Tri-disaster is a 20 potency loss per target but has the advantage of not being PBAOE like their only other AOE options are. Garuda knockback is a 10 potency loss, while the stuns are used on CD if you have those pets out. Selene silence can be saved for whenever. I can't really say how much of a potency loss BLM CC is, because I don't really follow BLM much. BRD silence will be used on CD, bind used as needed at minimal dps loss. NIN silence/stun will be used on CD, the bind will be kept on CD unless you somehow anticipate the need for it, but the minimum potency loss for using Hyoton is 220.

I'm not trying to make it sound like NIN has no CC options, but, no, they really aren't comparable to the CC other classes have.

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Originally Posted by kyrios91

By what logic? I don't say anything against MNKs and Yoshi did said that MNKs are intended to be the #1 melee DPS because of the higher skill ceiling.

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MNK's probably the easiest to do well with in a raid setting, both in terms of rotation and CD management. There's way more going on with the other two melee.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'm not trying to make it sound like NIN has no CC options, but, no, they really aren't comparable to the CC other classes have.

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Well, you mentioned it yourself:

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Now, of those, MNK will use the stuns on CD if they can, but their silence is 100 potency lost unless it's AOE. DRG will use both stuns on CD. WAR will use the stun on CD. PLD will use the silence on CD and stun as needed.

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Conclusion: CC abilities are rarely kept for it's actual purpose: Crowd Control. So again: It's comparable with other classes.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Well, you mentioned it yourself:

Conclusion: CC abilities are rarely kept for it's actual purpose: Crowd Control. So again: It's comparable with other classes.

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What? No. The day a NIN can solo-silence T2, or solo-stun Ifrit or Levi's add, or solo-bind feathers on Garuda, then I'll believe that it has comparable CC to other classes.

Good, maybe people will get off the ninja bandwagon.