2.4 Dungeons & ilvl

2.4 experts dropping housing goodies and no armor. It may be something different!

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Originally Posted by Fated

I hope I get to cap my seals even faster by trading in the worthless drops!

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Gotta get all those Sultana portraits somehow <3

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

2.4 experts dropping housing goodies and no armor. It may be something different!

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Dungeons dropping Riviera Benches in 2.4.

Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

I'm assuming the loot lock on ST will be removed for 2.4?

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I think it should be a partial unlock. Gear is unlocked, but UAT, Oil, and Sand stays weekly.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I think it should be a partial unlock. Gear is unlocked, but UAT, Oil, and Sand stays weekly.

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I was thinking about this too, but in the end with 2.4 we will have higher gear to buy with new tomestones (so higher then 110), so it wouldn't be so much of an issue if Oil and Sand were unlocked too... right?

Most likely ilvl90 since they re gonna scrap the myth just like they did with philosophy ... because new tomestones.

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Originally Posted by Danima

Right! That's the problem. This whole System is designed a little wrong... But what i said, wasn't only meant for gear dropping and the ilvl...it was more about the difficulty. I Dont want that dungeons and coil become even with their drops, not at all. This would be ridiculous. But there has to be more activity for the ppl who are into coil....who are playing since launch (not to mention 1.0 players). We would like to do something useful too besides coil. Not only we have a weekly lockout in "our" content, but also maybe we would like to have some variety. So it would be nice if at least one of the new dungeons would actually be somewhat challenging and/or rewarding for the coil-generation ;-P

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what would be the point of challenging content, that don't give any comparable rewards? that's like savage coil, which most ppl don't bother with, anymore.
the only thing that makes content challenging, is mechanics...which makes gear, semi-irrelevant.
ppl have been farming T9 for quite some time, so no matter what mechanics they throw in there, ppl will figure it out, then have it on farm, and complain it's to easy. and if there's no rewards, they'll stop doing it.
The expert dungeons ARE quite challenging, unless you are overgeared (in which case it's still challenging, if you don't know the mechanics) think Diablos: unless your group has really high DPS, and ignore the mechanics, there's actually an enrage timer (you run out of gates to open) and then there was pharos (which i didn't do at the time) and all the QQ about how difficult it was.
it's just a matter of perspective; what's easy to you, is very hard, to someone else.
The people that clear T9, are the top 1%, and their opinions don't matter, when it comes to dungeons :) cause everything is easy to them.
The only challenge you'll find, is the initial rush to learn the mechanics of a fight, then it's just memorizing rotations/timers, and it becomes easy; even T14 (if there will be that many turns) will be easy, once ppl figure it out.
Yoshi was shocked at how fast ppl cleared T9, but he said they still don't want to make stricter dps checks, cause it would make it impossible to clear, for most ppl.
so it will probably remain=learn mechanics, farm it.

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Originally Posted by Toodles

i105 is far more appropriate than i100 though since we have two sets of i100 and it shouldn't equal sanded soldiery IMHO.

Besides, they underuse the intermediate ilvl's anyway (i85, 95, 105, so on).

Minimum ilvl 95, Suggested ilvl 100, Drops i105.

They need tighter tuning anyway, none of this minimum being 30 ilvl below.

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there's a 90% chance, it will be ilv 90 gear :)
they have been doing lv 50 dungeons, 60, 70, 80, and now 90, and i'm sure it will stay that way. And for expansion, they will maybe add ilv 110.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

there's a 90% chance, it will be ilv 90 gear :)
they have been doing lv 50 dungeons, 60, 70, 80, and now 90, and i'm sure it will stay that way. And for expansion, they will maybe add ilv 110.

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Honestly, that would be enough to keep me un-subscribed (a new Job, Coil and Primal will not make me click renew). Why make dungeons at all if they're only going to drop outdated/recycled gear (Myth gear can already be bought with Allied seals, it has also been available ever since launch. Anyone who has been playing since then will already have the entire Myth set. First Coil already drops i90 gear. i90 gear can already be crafted)?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

etc..... Anyone who has been playing since then will already have the entire Myth set. First Coil already drops i90 gear. i90 gear can already be crafted)?

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This^
I wont argue what Radacci is saying, he is right with everything. But exactly that is the problem...the New stuff added by SE is worthless from the beginning of its implementation for a large group. It doesn't matter if it becomes easy as soon as u learned the mechanics or get better gear. Thats normal...But its easy before all that. And dont get me wrong. Im not a rusher, i Dont have t9 clear yet...But still. I want dungeons too...that are designed for my ilvl. I dont farm gear only to unequip it for making the dungeons harder. Thats not how it should be. And im not selfish too...im not saying they should'nt implement stuff for the lower ilvls. Im just saying...there are comming 3 dungeons with every major patch. At least one ( 1 ) could be designed for the higher ilvls.

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Originally Posted by Danima

the New stuff added by SE is worthless from the beginning of its implementation for a large group

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yup

ST (now drops sands /oil) ,hunts +Coil 2 .

if u arent running with full 110 on your main job by the time 2.4 hit u arent even playing FFXIV.

That's my main issue with this game's gear creep. Why make it increasingly easier to obtain ilv 100/110 gear during the same patch that you're introducing content that is tuned for Darklight gear? Why release better gear if only one dungeon in the game (current Coil turns) is tuned for that gear?

I hope the new dungeons have a requirement in the ilv 100 area. I understand that SE wants new players to catch up, but that's what all these other 4 person dungeons are there for, that's what Echo BC is there for, that's what ST is there for (especially with its removed lockout in 2.4), that's what Hunts are there for, that's what no weekly cap for Sol will be there for.

The continuing addition of content that you can faceroll through while only adding 1 dungeon that's actually tuned to the current tomestone rewards every other patch just makes absolutely no sense to me.

If minimum ilv for stuff outside of Coil keeps being laughingly low in context to current tomestone ilv rewards, at least introduce mechanics that punish you if left ignored. Hell, some pre-level 50 dungeon bosses have more punishing mechanics than endgame dungeon bosses, like Batraal from Dzmael or the cyclops from AV, while you can easily stand on top (you should always dodge, obviously, but just making an example) of stacking Desolations in Tam Tara HM and suffer negligible damage. 2.3 introduced really cool thematic dungeons, especially Tam-tara, but SE really needs to work on content difficulty in order to keep up with gear inflation.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

yup

ST (now drops sands /oil) ,hunts +Coil 2 .

if u arent running with full 110 on your main job by the time 2.4 hit u arent even playing FFXIV.

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Weeeeeeellll, yes and no. I switched mains at the start of 2.3 and I'm only i106 (went from PLD to DRG) :)

On topic. 3 dungeons, as I stated in another post, is a good number to do an easy (i90), a medium (i100), and a hard (i110) with the ilvl req being 5 ilevels lower than that. This way you can still let people "catch up" (there are ALREADY tons of ways to do this but i digress) in the i90 dungeon, people can get basically unweathered gear for alts in the i100 dungeon, and have a challenge in the i110 dungeon (esp for people that are at 110 already, maybe this place will drop 115 gear, and tome gear would be 120). I dunno, just thrown stuff out there.

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Originally Posted by Odett

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I was really disappointed with the difficulty of the 3 new dungeons... Tam Tara is so easy... you shouldn't be able to speed run a dungeon that comes out in a patch that introduces i110 gear as an i98 tank. Did tam tara once on pld, immediately started speed running it on war (i98 at the time). Hullbreaker isle is stupidly easy too... the Kraken should kill you if you get hit with the green dot ability... its nonsense. Stone Vigil... just too easy. I wish more bosses, however, were like Giruveganaus and didn't have an ability rotation or target only the main tank. If he was made more difficult I wouldn't mind getting that dungeon every single time i do expert roulette >.> . But even so... My whole party died with the second one at full life and I soloed it no problem as DRG.... that shouldn't be possible.

So would it be wrong to expect Shiva expert to be i92 for entry?

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Originally Posted by ShiloEET

So would it be wrong to expect Shiva expert to be i92 for entry?

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i129 for shiva ^^

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Originally Posted by Odett

That's my main issue with this game's gear creep. Why make it increasingly easier to obtain ilv 100/110 gear during the same patch that you're introducing content that is tuned for Darklight gear?

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This is, I feel, exactly why people are getting bored with the game during the week. I like the people in my static and my friends in-game and I genuinely like the game, there just isn't enough challenging dungeons with gear that I want. I played EQ for a long time, and while EQ had ridiculous RNG drops (FAR beyond what is in this game), and long grindy quests, it also had challenging small group content (Raids were 24-72 people, groups were a max of 6 people).

As a raider in a larger guild that did current content in EQ, I could do small group content and get upgrades by doing the hard stuff. Granted there were more gear slots to fill, but you also have lots of jobs to gear out in FFXIV. THIS was my idea for something like this (which I think is cool, obviously).

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

This is, I feel, exactly why people are getting bored with the game during the week. I like the people in my static and my friends in-game and I genuinely like the game, there just isn't enough challenging dungeons with gear that I want. I played EQ for a long time, and while EQ had ridiculous RNG drops (FAR beyond what is in this game), and long grindy quests, it also had challenging small group content (Raids were 24-72 people, groups were a max of 6 people).

As a raider in a larger guild that did current content in EQ, I could do small group content and get upgrades by doing the hard stuff. Granted there were more gear slots to fill, but you also have lots of jobs to gear out in FFXIV. THIS was my idea for something like this (which I think is cool, obviously).

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If the dungeon is made for i100. it's 92 to enter and i100 to perform well.

Well SE have us in "catch up" status now? Hopefully they finnaly mean for people to be max geared for the next patch. I think tuning it to 105+ is reasonable. 110 gear is just...nothing now.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

I actually would not be surprised to find more Peacock Ores and Potashes in there.

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Nah brah. Filtered Water is the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

Weeeeeeellll, yes and no. I switched mains at the start of 2.3 and I'm only i106 (went from PLD to DRG) :)

On topic. 3 dungeons, as I stated in another post, is a good number to do an easy (i90), a medium (i100), and a hard (i110) with the ilvl req being 5 ilevels lower than that. This way you can still let people "catch up" (there are ALREADY tons of ways to do this but i digress) in the i90 dungeon, people can get basically unweathered gear for alts in the i100 dungeon, and have a challenge in the i110 dungeon (esp for people that are at 110 already, maybe this place will drop 115 gear, and tome gear would be 120). I dunno, just thrown stuff out there.

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yeah but u changed main :p that doesnt count!!!

still u will be able to be 110 by the time 2.4 hits.


i dont even remember when was the last time i did a 4 man to upgrade gear.....not even alt jobs.

and its a shame that 4 mans are worthless in FFXIV.

Fingers crossed that the dungeon is tuned for i100 at least, and drops gear above i100. Like many in this thread have already said, we don't need anymore 0 effort easy-mode 4man dungeons / content. I would love some challenging content that doesn't require the time commitment of a 3 night-a-week static.

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Fingers crossed that the dungeon is tuned for i100 at least, and drops gear above i100. Like many in this thread have already said, we don't need anymore 0 effort easy-mode 4man dungeons / content. I would love some challenging content that doesn't require the time commitment of a 3 night-a-week static.

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i100 minimum would be nice... if they aren't gonna do i105 or i110.

This seriously needs to happen.

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Fingers crossed that the dungeon is tuned for i100 at least, and drops gear above i100. Like many in this thread have already said, we don't need anymore 0 effort easy-mode 4man dungeons / content. I would love some challenging content that doesn't require the time commitment of a 3 night-a-week static.

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There is a pattern here.
2.0 dungeons be level 50 - drop ilvl 55
2.1 dungeons ilvl 48 - drop ilvl 60
2.2 dungeons ilvl 55 - drop ilvl 70 (darklight)
2.3 dungeons ilvl 70 - drop ilvl 80

prediction
2.4 dungeons ilvl 80 - drops ilvl 90 (old af2 myth gear)

They already said myth was getting retired and the gear was going to be put in other places most likely dungeons like they did with darklight. There is no way that the dungeon would be ilvl 100 with droping ilvl 90 myth gear.

Dungeons are the most casual content and are thus easier then anything else in the game. The challenge is 8 man content, coil and ex primals. They need to have some easy content for casuals which is the 4 man dungeons.

^as mentioned a number of times in this thread, the pattern should be broken.

^^as mentioned a number of times in this thread, harder dungeons would be optional.

You'd still have your precious easy dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

^as mentioned a number of times in this thread, the pattern should be broken.

^^as mentioned a number of times in this thread, harder dungeons would be optional.

You'd still have your precious easy dungeons.

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They have a lot of ilvl 90 myth gear that needs to drop somewhere there is only 3 new dungeons they can't make one hard and funnel all that ilvl 90 myth gear into 2 dungeons.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

I don't see them doing the same with myth gear. Myth gear is much more iconic to the jobs they go with then darklight. I doubt they will make people farm dungeons for it.

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In 1.0 you had to farm dungeons for a few pieces of your AF. I don't see why they couldn't/wouldn't do the same now with the second set of JSE.

If SE follows their habits on patches since 2.0 it will be i90 gear. Hopefully it is a nice set and makes for a good glamour cause it won't have any other real use. I happen to like the 2.3 i80 gear sets and have been trying to collect them. I still can't get any gear for the tank or drg. Did the healer(my main), BLM and monk sets. For the love of gear, please remove cooking cherry from the list. It has to be the most common drop.

The i90 Myth gear can already be bought with Allied Seals. Also, because of lore, it is impossible for Myth gear (scratch that, "Rowena Gear") to drop from dungeons. Talk to her and I believe she explains just where the Myth Gear comes from.

SE need to get out of this horrible habit (i60, i70, i80) as it is only making tome and Coil gear the only worthwhile gear to have, while dungeon gear remains useless outside of glamour and GC seals uses.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Minimal ilvl for entry should be between i95 and i100 (if no one can reach that, then get to spamming 2.1-2.3 dungeons or ST) and the loot that drops should be around i105 and be accuracy based. This way, it's minor progression towards Second Coil and maybe Third Coil, in case the gear you have doesn't help you meet the accuracy cap for it.

Also it should be a fun challenge for people in i100-110 gear. It won't be Coil difficult (so no 1 KO = everyone KO's), but it should require BLM's or WHM's to make use of their dusty Sleep/Repose spells, amongst other things.

Forgot to add: NO CRAFTING MATS. Just make them cheap to buy with Soldiery or something, or if you do plan on making them drop in dungeons, make them drop from the Potion chests and not boss chests.

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I agree with Nestama here. I remember when freshly hitting fiddy you went to AK. If you couldn't get past the wall then you needed to beef up with either crafted gear or WP runs. And man if you couldn't get past the second boss in WP well, then...crafted gear might be the only option at that point.

Point is, there were progression checks. There don't seem to be many if any of those now duty wise. I also feel we need to have this back. If you don't meet the iLVL req for the duty, run the other stuff to get tomes to upgrade etc. Only thing that would stink about this is that currently the "other stuff" drops so many damn mats that it would make it terribad to rely on that as an upgrade option, so some fixes would need to be performed.

Just my 2g

Syn

I'm a little confused here. First, people are arguing that they get crafting mats from dungeons. Then, typically in the same post, they argue that the gear from those same dungeons is useless. So, wouldn't you rather get a drop that you can at least make some, albeit a small amount of, gil on? You're going to get 800 GC seals for that turn-in, roughly. You need 2500 for a mat. Or, you could just get the mat and sell it. If you use the GC seal on retainers, you're probably going to get some fish anyways. lol.

I don't disagree that it would be nice to get some relevant gear for alts and I do hope it looks cool like the 2.3 dungeon gear, but I'm also not against seeing Saurian Skins and Cashmere Fleece drop if that's what they decide to do. That will drive down the price of augments, for one, which would be great. And crafters can supplement that price drop with whatever new crafted gear gets released. I do agree mats shouldn't drop from boss chests, though.

4-man dungeons generally provide gear that doesn't have too many restrictions placed on it such as weekly limits, higher difficulty, or large parties that players may end up competing with. Further, 4-man dungeons don't have high item level requirements so that nearly everyone can do them with relatively little effort. As such, the so-called ease of entering 4-man dungeons and completing them offers fairly balanced rewards for their effort (though I do agree with unnecessary materials dropping). So I don't think we'll see changes in the current pattern on 4-man dungeon equipment.

Please keep in mind, also, that there's still another floor of Crystal Tower to enter, the Ancient Land of Eureka.

Eureka is not the next step. World of Darkness is. Eureka is already confirmed to be treated differently than the previous Crystal Tower raids (can't remember what Yoshi-P said exactly, but my guess it could be treated similarly to Dynamis or something).

Anyway, with the introduction of a new ilvl cap (130? 140?), there is no reason to make the new dungeons drop i90 gear (especially as Myth gear is supposedly crafted by Rowena's artisans). If SE do go with this usual habit, then chances are by the time 2.6 comes out, the highest ilvl will be i150-160 and the dungeon gear will be... i110 or something. Severely outdated and irrelevant right from the get go.

Had the dungeons gone with this set up...
Wanderer's Palace i55, Amdapor Keep i60, 2.1 dungeons i75, 2.2 dungeons i85 and 2.3 dungeons i95, then everything would be fine (gear would be relevant for a few weeks/months even for those who had been playing since beta). The 2.4 dungeons can be i105 and 2.5 dungeons i115. 2.6 (assuming it's not expansion), would need to skip to i135 or something, as chances are SE will introduce yet another ilvl cap. Basically, keeping everything up to date and relevant on its release date.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Eureka is not the next step. World of Darkness is. Eureka is already confirmed to be treated differently than the previous Crystal Tower raids (can't remember what Yoshi-P said exactly, but my guess it could be treated similarly to Dynamis or something).

Anyway, with the introduction of a new ilvl cap (130? 140?), there is no reason to make the new dungeons drop i90 gear (especially as Myth gear is supposedly crafted by Rowena's artisans). If SE do go with this usual habit, then chances are by the time 2.6 comes out, the highest ilvl will be i150-160 and the dungeon gear will be... i110 or something. Severely outdated and irrelevant right from the get go.

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Thank you. Glad you understand the current situation so well!

Needs to be tuned for "Casual content"? Don't all the casual players have full i110 now thanks to ST?

If all the new 4mans drop i90 and are tuned for i90 they will be dead farm content on arrival. Not even the most casual of players I've met even cared about the drops in the i80 dungeons. They were too busy hunting and running ST.

*Every* player wants meaningful progression, casual or hardcore alike. It's what keeps them engaged in the game even after they've finished content for the first time. Content like this that's tuned for and drops gear below the even pitifully easily acquirable tomestone items caters to no one.

"new 4mans drop i90 and are tuned for i90 they will be dead farm content on arrival"

Perfect Description.