Is this your first Final Fantasy? Or do you just not remember grinding in past games?

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Originally Posted by Elazu

This is not the point. TC is talking as if it was mandatory to grind in other FFs.

It is not.

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No, it was not mandatory to grind the FF's to complete them. But guess what? You didn't get the best gear/weapons/abilities without doing it.
ohhhhh.. we are on to something.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

or don't remember it because they didn't consider it grinding, every FF game is a grind fest, especially the supposed "BEST FF TO EVER EXIST, FFVII!" - If you wanted multiple rare materia, you had to grind AP to master and 'clone' the materia.

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you don't think that's important for them to design the game in such a way that the grind actually feels fun for people? level capping Lv 50 players is not fun.

i don't remember FFVII telling me i can't use Knights of the Round after i got it.

Sure, older games involved a lot of grinding. But did anyone EVER say "ZOMG I freakin love this grinding!" Doubtful, depending on the game.

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

People that say RNG is a part of RPGs are forgetting modern RPGs... This isn't 10 years ago, heck, it isn't even 5 years ago. Please stop making that comparison.

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Well here is the thing about "modern MMORPGs", what is the number one complaint you hear when a new MMORPG comes out?

"There's not enough to do in this game!"

Why? Because everything is on a fast track and even if there is actually enough content you are able to blow through all of it far too quickly. MMO's had a grind aspect for a reason. Because the game itself is intended to have no end, its not like playing a single player RPG where you purchase the game and then play it through. And one of the ways they keep the game going is by designing content that takes time to complete, RNG is part of that. It does have its place.

Keep in mind that these modern MMORPGs also never achieve the level of success that the old ones did, and even if they do its always very short lived. WoW being an obvious exception. But what I mean is that a lot of people are still playing games like FFXI & Everquest and its been 12-15 years since those games released. Do you think half of the modern games that we are seeing now will still be around in a healthy capacity in 12-15 years? Not likely.

So say what you want about their design and how times have changed, but the continues success of these older titles and their design and the continued dissatisfaction with modern titles kind of says otherwise, imo.

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Originally Posted by FritoBandito

Sure, older games involved a lot of grinding. But did anyone EVER say "ZOMG I freakin love this grinding!" Doubtful, depending on the game.

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Actually yeah - They're called completionists.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you don't think that's important for them to design the game in such a way that the grind actually feels fun for people?

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This is the real issue at hand.

I am very happy that they implemented a grind for upgrading relics. In fact I would have liked to have seen it be even more in depth and time consuming, I agree that people shouldn't have their Animus Weapons already. However, the design was a bit on the lazy side, they could have done something more interesting and fun.

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Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

It doesn't need to. Sure, somebody can play for 24 hours and finish their atma farming quickly, but if they can do it in ONE DAY then a very casual player with a few hours on their hands can do it within a couple of weeks.

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Actually, my problem with the Atma thing is that what you just said there is completely false. If it took an equal amount of grinding/effort for anyone to get it, I would be fine with it, even if it took WEEKS (which I think it should). However, some people being done in 8 hours while I grind for 26 hours and only have 1/12, something is horribly wrong.

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Originally Posted by CamAlch

Why? Because everything is on a fast track and even if there is actually enough content you are able to blow through all of it far too quickly. MMO's had a grind aspect for a reason. Because the game itself is intended to have no end, its not like playing a single player RPG where you purchase the game and then play it through. And one of the ways they keep the game going is by designing content that takes time to complete, RNG is part of that. It does have its place.

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Not asking for there not to be a grind. I'm asking for the amount of grinding to be equalized a little bit, so that it's a long grind for everybody and not just those who are unlucky. This is what all of you "OMG I finished mine in 8 hours so it's not a problem" people don't understand. I'm one of the unlucky ones. I've been grinding FATEs a total of 26 hours now and have one, that's right, ONE Atma. I don't want them to take away the grinding, I just want it to be equal (and ideally somewhere in between the extremes that exist now).

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Originally Posted by mythicrose

I'll consider myself fortunate seeing how you only have one after 26 hours.

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And I consider myself fortunate alongside someone in another thread who said they only have one after 32 hours. All these people saying it's fine really have no idea.

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Originally Posted by Spanky

Calm down guys.. really. I got my atmas in a total of 8 hours..

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I can't take you seriously. 8 hours for all your atma is a blessing. I spent a combined total of 12 hours in western thanalan for a single atma.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

However, some people being done in 8 hours while I grind for 26 hours and only have 1/12, something is horribly wrong.

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I'll consider myself fortunate seeing how you only have one after 26 hours.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Actually yeah - They're called completionists.

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I'd be willing to bet what the completionists love is the result of the grinding, and not the grinding itself.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you don't think that's important for them to design the game in such a way that the grind actually feels fun for people? level capping Lv 50 players is not fun.

i don't remember FFVII telling me i can't use Knights of the Round after i got it.

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The only time grinding becomes unbearable is when you want it, "NOW! NOW! NOW!"

And where did you get this unusable Knights of the Round stuff? You lost me.

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

People that say RNG is a part of RPGs are forgetting modern RPGs... This isn't 10 years ago, heck, it isn't even 5 years ago. Please stop making that comparison.

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This !

MMOs and RPGs have evolved a lot from the good old days of camping monsters and grinding for months with nothing to show for it ..... well or so we thought.

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Originally Posted by FritoBandito

I'd be willing to bet what the completionists love is the result of the grinding, and not the grinding itself.

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A completionist is a go-getter, too focused on the goal to feel the grind.

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Originally Posted by Parasoth

No, it was not mandatory to grind the FF's to complete them. But guess what? You didn't get the best gear/weapons/abilities without doing it.
ohhhhh.. we are on to something.

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Yep, you didn't need them because there weren't groups of people saying, "You can't beat the boss without it." You didn't have Hope telling you to come back unless you have the best weapon.

I stopped caring what OP had to say after she said it only took her 8 hours. I'm about 30 hours in and I only have TWO pieces. I don't mind grinding but this is crazy. There shouldn't be that big of a gap between those who are lucky and those who are not. I've met people who claimed it only took 5 hours and another who has been in the same spot for 3 days. I feel like giving up after someone tells me it only took them less time then it's taking me to get my third piece.

Chance is such an evil mistress.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

or some of us grew up and realized it's not okay to stay in an abusive relationship.

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yeah, the comment that guy made was ludicrous.

even so... I think what people are failing to see is the type of grind that it is (easy, repetitive, rehashed content) is the reason people are dissatisfied or disinterested. Also, the approach people take. I have had a total of 5 hours to play since 2.2 went live. In that 6 hours my first priority was to try and cap soldiery and unlock the patch. I farmed Atmas for an hour afterwards, and got none. No big deal. Ill farm for an hour a day after capping SOL, then move on to other things. No one said you needed to have at it for 18 hours a day (growing up and realizing you are in an abusive relationship).

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

The only NM I remember teally well from XI... Huu Mujoh(or something like that) The Tempest, Yagudo caster. I spit his name in disgust, and he is my go to example of the thing that were fundamentally flawed about XI, I still remember his spawn locations and his abilities, all because he dropped the Monster Signa, a weapon that was great for Mithra Bards, which I was. I spent YEARS camping him... Never saw it drop once.

And as to the atmas... Is everyone forgetting the currency grind for XI's weapon upgrades that took most people YEARS to farm up enough for them?

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So much this ^
I also camped a lot of those NMs in ffxi and built a relic. Everything in that game was a grind and a long one. The atma farming is the closest thing to a grind in ffxiv and even at 40 hrs its still laughable.

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Originally Posted by Zwipe

The only time grinding becomes unbearable is when you want it, "NOW! NOW! NOW!"

And where did you get this unusable Knights of the Round stuff? You lost me.

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level capped FATEs means you can't use all the abilities that you've earned. i can grind Lv 50 dungeons forever.

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Originally Posted by Takeva

Yep, you didn't need them because there weren't groups of people saying, "You can't beat the boss without it." You didn't have Hope telling you to come back unless you have the best weapon.

I stopped caring what OP had to say after she said it only took her 8 hours. I'm about 30 hours in and I only have TWO pieces. I don't mind grinding but this is crazy. There shouldn't be that big of a gap between those who are lucky and those who are not. I've met people who claimed it only took 5 hours and another who has been in the same spot for 3 days. I feel like giving up after someone tells me it only took them less time then it's taking me to get my third piece.

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Indeed. A lot of people had THEMSELVES telling them that they couldn't do it without the best weapons. For the record, there are definitely some enemies that require top tier equips to beat throughout the FF series.

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Originally Posted by Spanky

Calm down guys.. really. I got my atmas in a total of 8 hours. 1 hour a day over the last week. It isn't difficult, you just have to be smart about it. Sitting in a town for 5-10 minutes waiting for a fate to pop instead of teleporting to a new area is not going to help you out. I understand it's RNG and someone can get their Atma's in 1 hour while another person can take months.. that is great. It gives you a goal and a sense of failure or accomplishment either way. If you don't like it. there are 2 other weapons out there that are BETTER than the Atma's right now.. go get those. YOU DONT NEED the Atma's weapon...

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I've gotten 1 atma in the last 15 hours alone. Don't tell me to calm down.

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Originally Posted by PandaPause

So much this ^
I also camped a lot of those NMs in ffxi and built a relic. Everything in that game was a grind and a long one. The atma farming is the closest thing to a grind in ffxiv and even at 40 hrs its still laughable.

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the list can go on and on in FFXI... from the simplest pair of boots, the level 24 head piece, the nin/sam gloves that I never got, byne bills, etc, etc, etc... There is one thing that people are grinding for here with no competition, no ridiculous waiting times. It really is just a "deal with it" type of situation. Also, the only thing that really sucks about it is that you need to do low level stuff... really is kind of... silly, tbh.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

the list can go on and on in FFXI... from the simplest pair of boots, the level 24 head piece, the nin/sam gloves that I never got, byne bills, etc, etc, etc... There is one thing that people are grinding for here with no competition, no ridiculous waiting times. It really is just a "deal with it" type of situation. Also, the only thing that really sucks about it is that you need to do low level stuff... really is kind of... silly, tbh.

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To another Goblin player!

https://i.imgur.com/PYs86.gif

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

the list can go on and on in FFXI... from the simplest pair of boots, the level 24 head piece, the nin/sam gloves that I never got, byne bills, etc, etc, etc... There is one thing that people are grinding for here with no competition, no ridiculous waiting times. It really is just a "deal with it" type of situation. Also, the only thing that really sucks about it is that you need to do low level stuff... really is kind of... silly, tbh.

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Speaking of FFXI NMs. Most people never realized that it was better to just farm the gil for it. Farming silk, tree cuttings or beastmen blood would remove most of the RNG for people that didn't have luck.

I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE IT!

So many people saying how much they hate doing this, yet still they spend hours and hours/day doing it. It makes no sense at all. If you hate it that much stop doing it, take a break. It is an option to do. There are other alternatives. I have no sympathy for people complaining because they have to have it NOW. SE could have just increased the drop rates and said you can only get one/week. People would still whine.

All the GC seals have been working out pretty well for me as my retainers can bring back some pretty good stuff with their ventures.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Speaking of FFXI NMs. Most people never realized that it was better to just farm the gil for it. Farming silk, tree cuttings or beastmen blood would remove most of the RNG for people that didn't have luck.

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beehive chips on vomp hill, honey, tree cutting in the sanctuary of Zi'Tah... yes, to a degree you are right, but that was only part true because a lot of people camped the NMs... balance!

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Speaking of FFXI NMs. Most people never realized that it was better to just farm the gil for it. Farming silk, tree cuttings or beastmen blood would remove most of the RNG for people that didn't have luck.

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yup, another problem with Atma is that you can't sell it.

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Originally Posted by Ruri

5 hrs, 1 atma for me. I don't care how long it takes but looks like I'll get 1 upgrade by 2.3 maybe..

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And here I am and wish I had your luck.
14 hours and 0 Atmas. This system is beyond retarded, everyone should have to do the same work luck is the worst nightmare for some people while it's a blessing to others.

I understand why they put it on fates because of the Venture system that was added and GC seals being needed to repopulate your venture coins but the fates should be high level or special new fates that dont make you level sync.

FFX - I am currently playing that game more than this one right now. I grind on the game until the AP for each area is no good lol and I am not looking forward to Dark Aeons since I never played International version before.

But the grind in Singleplayer FF games is different versus an MMO, because we are paying a subscription and I don't know about others but if I am not having fun than why should I continue to pay for the game. I hope they bring in new Fates for Atmas later on that make it harder but guarantees your drop, only thing that makes me lean in favor of how it is now is because its new content. This wont be easy to do until the next patch is released, when they want you to move on to the newer stuff.

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Originally Posted by PandaPause

To another Goblin player!

https://i.imgur.com/PYs86.gif

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we are few, BUT WE ARE MIGHTY!!!

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Originally Posted by Arcaloid

I never actually played XI, but I assume people weren't farming for 1 mob for weeks by just typing Tab key and using 1 skill.

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Some people farmed one NM for weeks trying to get one item (like a rare drop weapon). And for some NMs you had to kill specific normal monsters in an area to get said NM to pop... Which was RNG itself (with widescan you could see the mobs in an area, say of all the damselflies in an area of 4 squares on the map, you had to kill 3rd one on the list [and only the 3rd] in a specific group of flies to get the NM to pop in it's place). Then if someone else that isn't in your party/alliance claims it before you, you can't get anything from it, can't even attack it. So you'd lose your chance for your 10% drop rate item you want until you can get it to repop.

At least with FATEs everyone has a chance and it isn't a 1-12+ hour respawn rate for FATEs that aren't Odin and Behemoth.

And auto attacks were a main source of damage in FFXI. Auto-attacks built up TP which you could then use to do a single weaponskill like Vorpal Blade or Dancing Edge once TP was at 100%-300%. A WS would burn all the TP you have and you start from 0 again and rebuild TP to do another WS, which took a while depending on your job, accuracy, and skill level with whatever weapon type you're using (if you had 100 sword skill at level 75 Paladin, you couldn't hit anything your level).

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Originally Posted by LordSliver

I understand why they put it on fates because of the Venture system that was added and GC seals being needed to repopulate your venture coins but the fates should be high level or special new fates that dont make you level sync.

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Well I don't think they intentional interlinked the two systems as some think.
You can buy venture credits with seals and you can get seals by doing guildhest and leves.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Well I don't think they intentional interlinked the two systems as some think.
You can buy venture credits with seals and you can get seals by doing guildhest and leves.

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Yes but guildhiest are only good for first time reward than its debatable after that lol, I don't really do leves unless I wanna level something up :D

I don't think anyone's complained about the new crafting or gathering grinds, wanna know why? Because those at least take slightly more effort, at least more than pressing 1 over and over. You need to HQ your AFs then materia them or get food and then craft or go gather the items or do something else than just spam a single button over and over, and yes you can also kinda sorta buy your way into some of the steps if you wish, feel free to use "oh so you're entitled and whining because you can't buy your way into a thing you want to have right now huh huh huh" to validate badly designed quests. However if you choose to do everything yourself you're guaranteed to have some valid and quantitative progress in every single step of the way, the same can't be said about RNG Atmas at all.

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Originally Posted by Spanky

So much hate for the new elements that take more than a day to accomplish..

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Yet that's far from the point. Fun things are fun and things that are not fun are not fun.

I'll say this though I've had fun farming some content in previous FF's because the experience was worth it. Yet as far as farming for gear that's only gonna have temporary value regardless of where you get it from. That's a chore and not fun.

If you are unlucky no one says you have to set there and grind trying to get atma for 26 hours that is your choice, if you get tired of it go do something else (2.2 added more then just atma farming) and then come back to it later. You know mix up your gameplay.

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Originally Posted by NailBach

Hundreds of hours playing Blitzball in FFX to unlock Wakka's Ultimate, as well as grinding the Omega ruins for hours to level up.

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lol really hundreds of hours for World champion, you just need to come third in a tournament to get the World champion, then 2 leagues and 2 tournaments to fully upgrade it. it's probably the weapon that required the least grinding to get. Caladbolg is the bane if my FFX life, 0:0.3 NOOOOOOO.

You guys/gals complaining about "the grind" are silly. I guess still loving the old RPG games makes me kinda numb with grinding. Where's your sense of accomplishment? That's not a good feeling if it's handed to you in a day or so.

Try fishing in this game. Hunt the sawfish or find one of these new legendary big fish then talk to me about grinding and how it sucks. I have a goal and I won't let a little thing like time beat me.

that the point that funny, the people saying: they complain against the grind. but that the point you don't understand... people don't complain against the grind. but against "RNG" grind into FATE! that a lot different. other point pretty amusing most of the people defending the system are old player of FF11... but that don't that change the fact that most of the community are pointing that the Atma part of the grind is dumb. is not fun, is not fair... is simply an articial wall added for please the little nostlagic player of FF11 that want to grind and spend day... because thing are not good if it don't take them weeks and month for get it.

i will be rude (and sorry for that) if you have loved FF11 soo much... why are you here? FF11 is still online!! but i know why, because they did change the game and it look more and more like what we have here. and never you have think... but maybe they will never redo what we have loved when we was kids and had countless hour of time that we was able to spend into a game!

more important and i want that you read it: WE DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE GRIND BUT ABOUT THE RNG IN FATE

ps: then don't come here talk of game of another era or not even an mmorpg for make your point! the mmorpg have evolve if you can't accept it!! quit it!

I don't mind grinds. I just don't like Fate grinding because they are low level tutorial reuse content.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

If you are unlucky no one says you have to set there and grind trying to get atma for 26 hours that is your choice, if you get tired of it go do something else (2.2 added more then just atma farming) and then come back to it later. You know mix up your gameplay.

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TBH many of us have done most of the content by now outside of Coil2 and Levi EX.

I would like to point out that many of us aren't against the grind more the RNG and the very low drop rates, and yes you can go away and try another day/time but shouldn't' we want to play this game/content, not be driven crazy by tedious activities ?

I personally hate FATE I think they are one of the worst things in this game, I will persevere with the grind but it is already making me hate this game.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

ps: then don't come here talk of game of another era or not even an mmorpg for make your point! the mmorpg have evolve if you can't accept it!! quit it!

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Yet you tend to attack FFXI and people who played it...lol. Like the last topic, you brought up XI to make a "point" that was so unrelated it was just to attack people.