[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Alhanelem]

On the "being invited to events" subject, I used to bang my head against the wall over this, until one day in my Moghouse, I discovered a button marked "Change Jobs" and my life was never the same again! I could do events on WHM and WAR, and then roam the wilderness on my BST, using Charm.

I fail to see the point in including a job in the game if it can't be put to good use throughout the game. As much fun as it is to mess around, that's no justification to keep a job functionally inferior. As much fun as I had playing and soloing on PUP, I wanted more than anything for it to be usable (which it wasn't for the longest time).

So your sarcasm and snarkiness isn't appriciated. I should be able to use any job and be useful in content, not just WHM and WAR and (insert mainstream job here). I shouldn't be FORCED to press the Change Job button, I should be pressing it because I want to play that job and not because I have to.

I went through all of the last 12 years finding ways to beat content with the jobs I enjoyed the most. I had no problem doing this, inspite of all the people insisting that you must be XYZ job to be useful (which IMO is bad game design). I beat most of CoP on SMN inspite of the alleged "uselessness" and the crap I got for playing a mage job as a Galka was unbelieveable. But I did it anyway, and we had fun, and in the end it didn't really matter. So to hell with conformity.

[kylani]

So maybe SE are right that BST needed to be rebalanced somehow, I just think that the pet command range may have taken the fun rather than the Op out of BST.

I love this line. That sums up how I feel.

I kinda wish SE had put charmable non-aggroing pets in end game and weakened jugs again (non aggroing for the non-BSTs, not to make it easy on BST). That would probably be a hot mess, but I'd have to re-sub if they did just to try, lol.

I doubt most end game groups would want to take a BST with a pet that could un-charm and turn on you. It would add too much chaotic fun to the cookie cutter world.

[kylani]

I fail to see the point in including a job in the game if it can't be put to good use throughout the game. As much fun as it is to mess around, that's no justification to keep a job functionally inferior. As much fun as I had playing and soloing on PUP, I wanted more than anything for it to be usable (which it wasn't for the longest time).

So your sarcasm and snarkiness isn't appriciated. I should be able to use any job and be useful in content, not just WHM and WAR and (insert mainstream job here). I shouldn't be FORCED to press the Change Job button, I should be pressing it because I want to play that job and not because I have to.

I went through all of the last 12 years finding ways to beat content with the jobs I enjoyed the most. I had no problem doing this, inspite of all the people insisting that you must be XYZ job to be useful (which IMO is bad game design). I beat most of CoP on SMN inspite of the alleged "uselessness" and the crap I got for playing a mage job as a Galka was unbelieveable. But I did it anyway, and we had fun, and in the end it didn't really matter. So to hell with conformity.

I agree with both you and Stompa on this. I was more like Stompa, in that I enjoyed the other jobs too. I know people who absolutely hated that they couldn't do end game on their main. Our dynamis leader would allow BSTs and PUPs to go. BST wasn't good for dynamis, so I preferred to go as another job, but I really never understood why people were so anti-Pup. I know Pup has evolved over time, but even back then, it seemed like a very useful versatile job. A good pup was a joy to watch.

People are different. All people should be able to enjoy their jobs.

[Singforu]

I fail to see the point in including a job in the game if it can't be put to good use throughout the game. As much fun as it is to mess around, that's no justification to keep a job functionally inferior. As much fun as I had playing and soloing on PUP, I wanted more than anything for it to be usable (which it wasn't for the longest time).

So your sarcasm and snarkiness isn't appriciated. I should be able to use any job and be useful in content, not just WHM and WAR and (insert mainstream job here). I shouldn't be FORCED to press the Change Job button, I should be pressing it because I want to play that job and not because I have to.

I went through all of the last 12 years finding ways to beat content with the jobs I enjoyed the most. I had no problem doing this, inspite of all the people insisting that you must be XYZ job to be useful (which IMO is bad game design). I beat most of CoP on SMN inspite of the alleged "uselessness" and the crap I got for playing a mage job as a Galka was unbelieveable. But I did it anyway, and we had fun, and in the end it didn't really matter. So to hell with conformity.

This is ridiculous. All jobs are useful to a point (some NMs have certain resistances/immunities). Each job has it's strengths and weaknesses. You have to use a variety of jobs to complete content.... 18x WAR is not going to cut it. You should not be whining that you should be entitled to come whatever you want. If you only have one or two jobs, then you aren't being flexible enough and if you attend the event in that state you are just leeching and hurting the group. Yes there is usually more than one way to complete content, but if your group is 17/18 and has no WHM, guess what... you need to pony up and go WHM. The leader of your group should be looking at the strengths of each of the players. If you're a yagrush WHM and your DD isn't as good as the other DDs.... don't complain if you get chosen to come WHM.

[bazookatooth]

This is ridiculous. All jobs are useful to a point (some NMs have certain resistances/immunities). Each job has it's strengths and weaknesses. You have to use a variety of jobs to complete content.... 18x WAR is not going to cut it. You should not be whining that you should be entitled to come whatever you want. If you only have one or two jobs, then you aren't being flexible enough and if you attend the event in that state you are just leeching and hurting the group. Yes there is usually more than one way to complete content, but if your group is 17/18 and has no WHM, guess what... you need to pony up and go WHM. The leader of your group should be looking at the strengths of each of the players. If you're a yagrush WHM and your DD isn't as good as the other DDs.... don't complain if you get chosen to come WHM.

That's not at all what he's saying and you know it. There is a big difference between "We need you to come on white mage because we have no healer..." and "We need you to come on some other job because your favorite job just sucks.".

[Olor]

That's not at all what he's saying and you know it. There is a big difference between "We need you to come on white mage because we have no healer..." and "We need you to come on some other job because your favorite job just sucks.".

And this is where BST was for years. And everytime it's ever gotten good enough to be useable in content it gets nerfed.

"BST soloing exp is hard but cool" - NERFT
"BST is OK at dynamis farming" - NERFT
"BST is good in one or two group events" - NERFT

etc etc

[Elexia]

And this is where BST was for years. And everytime it's ever gotten good enough to be useable in content it gets nerfed.

"BST soloing exp is hard but cool" - NERFT
"BST is OK at dynamis farming" - NERFT
"BST is good in one or two group events" - NERFT

etc etc

BST soloing for exp was never nerfed unless you mean the switch to Abyssea where the outside world was pretty useless in comparison to level?
BST only had a tiny form of TH (like BLU) unless they went /thf, pretty sure they can still farm dynamis if they want to.
BST is good in one or two group events - "/shout BST PARTIES ONLY PLZ TY." < this is what brought the attention.

You know what's good in group events? WHMs. Guess by that logic WHM is next to be nerfed, eh?

[Arthos]

/shout BST PARTIES ONLY PLZ TY." < this is what brought the attention.

BST in party only works this way, thanks to the supportjob design. This is intended by SE, and not BST player's fault.

Can also do other setups, it doesnt matter much if you fight a T1 Escha NM with BST x 3, or a setup which consists of PLD/RDM/DD.
The second setup has one problem: Each member has to be good. The BST setup needs only one good player, which makes it very PUG friendly.