[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Jile]

BST has been forced to solo by design and by community exile from day one. The fact we can solo is not the key issue, because the entire game is being pushed forward a solo centric attitude and design so, of course BST is going to expand as people are forced to solo as the servers shrink and individuals game time also shrinks.

Now that said, I'll admit a damage adjustment was and is needed for several jobs but the Nerf BST received was unnecessary and is inconsistent and should be undone with the damage adjustment put in its place.

The game is winding down. Lets not make overreaching changes to any functionality of a job at this stage.

Community reps, please respond, is the dev team looking at this problem?

[Ataraxia]

What notorious monster is this? Please do tell cause I can't think of a single relevant/modern NM I can kill solo that would be difficult for most other jobs to solo...

Try not to let Dale bother you too much. I don't think that guy even play BST and it's jealous because he doesn't know how to play his job.
Notice the part when he said "Just take your pick - any of the normal, difficult, very difficult higher-tier battlefields which the Beast Master could easily solo.

Wow did he just say BST can do ANY high tier battlefields on difficult and very difficult? that's is an embarrassment to make such a claim that a BST can that. If he's referring to avatar that take high level of concentration to do that and there is no way a regular BST can pull it out without dying. I know BST can do some avatar on difficult and might need Dawn Mulsum but those BST are at 1200. I don't wanna call it a solo if people resort using trust when double trust event is up.

[Olor]

Wow did he just say BST can do ANY high tier battlefields on difficult and very difficult? that's is an embarrassment to make such a claim that a BST can that.

No, he said any bst without capacity gifts and with bad gear can solo any high tier battlefields on difficult and very difficult

I've seen Beast Masters in mediocre gear and not many job points...

And not sure how he is "seeing" them if they are in battlefields.

As a BST in mediocre gear with not many job points, the only NM from recent times I've been able to solo is one of the NMs that pops among the ordinary mobs in escha zitah and I only did that by using my one hour and I am absolutely certain it would have been much easier to do the mob on BLU.

I have tried to solo unity NMs and gotten creamed. I tried an avatar on VE and got creamed, so not sure where this idea that some derp BST is soloing all the very difficult battlefields is coming from.

Yeah, I am a casual player, not a great DD etc. but the claim is being made that BSTs like me were clearing everything solo and it is simply not true. Abyssea NMs? Sure. So can everyone else. Meebles? Sure, so can everyone else.

Yeah BSTs *could* solo some difficult content. BSTs with capped points and hundreds of millions in augmented gear. Meanwhile, SCH, SMN, BLU, PUP, PLD, etc solo the same and some different things. Are there certain NMs that BST was better at than those jobs - sure - but there are plenty of NMs that bst is terrible for.

You are living in a fantasy world Olor if you think most other jobs can easily solo all the relevant notorious monsters the Beast Master was capable of. When you make comments like this: it makes it impossible for me to take you seriously.

You said

I've seen Beast Masters in mediocre gear and not many job points...

That is not the same as "the world's best bsts, with capped job points and all the best gear."

I am a BST with "mediocre gear and not many job points" and I am telling you I can't solo anything relevant, not before the nerf and certainly not after. So unless you provide an example, I am calling BS.

Maybe you just assumed the BST had bad gear and no job points but they were capped and wearing hundreds of millions in augments. Still wanna know what NM you're talking about though that a *party* was struggling with and BST demolished. And how did the BST even get the NM? Did you let it go yellow? You all die?

And I would be SHOCKED if you could find me examples of more than maybe 1 or 2 solos that have EVER only been doable on BST. SCH and BLU are both way better at soloing NMs than BST.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

What notorious monster is this? Please do tell cause I can't think of a single relevant/modern NM I can kill solo that would be difficult for most other jobs to solo...

He's probably talking about Leaping Lizzie etc...

[Olor]

He's probably talking about Leaping Lizzie etc...

That's the hilarious thing. BST has always had a niche as a job that could solo. To whine about it after excluding BSTs from party content for so long... when other jobs are actually way better at soloing than bst... wow, just wow.

[Fynlar]

Just take your pick - any of the normal, difficult, very difficult higher-tier battlefields which the Beast Master could easily solo. I watched a Beast Master cut through skirmish notorious monsters like water - the same one that was dropping meteors and one-shotting the rest of the party. I watch them eat normal and difficult avatars for breakfast - where as I have to equip all - mdt and sub /rune to barely survive their hits on very easy.

Yeah, no, that isn't happening as easily as you think it is. The ones that you see doing this are likely geared/gifted to the teeth.

You try throwing most average BSTs into that AA MR VD fight, and even though the fight is still very simplistic in design (as I said, the one actual threat to a close-range BST being easily blocked with Utsusemi), they are going to get creamed.

I don't wanna call it a solo if people resort using trust when double trust event is up.

Trusts won't do much for a BST other than speed up a kill, potentially just a little bit, because trusts will usually get massacred by anything that matters, and if the pet is indisposed and the BST takes any hit by anything that matters they will quite possibly be 1-shot by anything that matters too. Trusts also won't (directly) heal the pet. Tank trusts also are not effective for long; the pet will rip hate off them soon enough assuming you are the caliber of BST required for pulling feats like this off.

[bazookatooth]

No it's your point that is lost actually.

You can't say all other pet jobs can tank just as well as the Beast Master (which is what the post I was responding to said) then try to counter my post by admitting they can't because they weren't designed to.
What ever you feel the other pet jobs are designed to do isn't the issue. My point - which you just ceded - is that the other pets do not come close to competing with the enmity generation of the Beast Master pets.

This is what I mean... why are you trying to make that point??? First off, Puppets can tank quite well. Here's a guide to help you understand how that works: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/47...a-tank-on-pup/. Second, why would DRG or SMN want to pull more emnity? SMN pets die and get recast multiple times in a fight. Why should they care if the pet does anything hate wise beyond creating the minimal amount of emnity required to keep the master from getting attacked? And DRG pets... come on. At least try to be serious.

So not only was my point not lost - but you actually reinforced it for me. Thank you.

I'm still lost. Pup can tank fine (See the above link). So I didn't support your point on that one. Summoner doesn't need to tank because pets are expendable. So I didn't support your point on that one (Unless your point was that spending money on Mulsums, thetas and jugs is easier than casting a spell). And dragoons aren't a real pet job so you can stop bringing them up. They are about as relevant to this conversation as BST is to party curing.

[Alhanelem]

I never said pet tanking is a new concept. I never said other pet jobs have never kited or tanked NMs through-out FF XI's history.

No, pet tanking is not a new concept (The irony here is right after saying pet tanking is a new concept, you immediately admit other jobs have kited and tanked NMs before, therefore making pets tanking not a new concept). If you want to get really specific and say "Pet tanking against hardcore DPS in endgame content" is a new concept, that's a little closer but even that has been done to a limited degree prior to audolin, item levels, etc.

Also, as has been mentioned, pet tanking is not exclusive to beastmaster. With the last batch of attachments valoredge can actually tank- Not a new concept for PUP (There's been an attachment for enmity generation since PUP first existed), but the auto lacked durability prior.

Pet burns are also still technically pets tanking, and they've been around as long as pet jobs have existed (read: since FFXI existed).

[Dale]

Try not to let Dale bother you too much. I don't think that guy even play BST and it's jealous because he doesn't know how to play his job.
Notice the part when he said "Just take your pick - any of the normal, difficult, very difficult higher-tier battlefields which the Beast Master could easily solo.

Wow did he just say BST can do ANY high tier battlefields on difficult and very difficult? that's is an embarrassment to make such a claim that a BST can that. If he's referring to avatar that take high level of concentration to do that and there is no way a regular BST can pull it out without dying. I know BST can do some avatar on difficult and might need Dawn Mulsum but those BST are at 1200. I don't wanna call it a solo if people resort using trust when double trust event is up.

I've already said I didn't play Beast Master. So that wasn't much of a revelation. I must be jealous and suck at my job because I think Beast Masters were overpowered? That's fair.

My comment was not to suggest BST can solo any high tier battlefield on difficult and very difficult. I was referring to those that they could solo: and they could do more of them than most other jobs.

[Dale]

No, he said any bst without capacity gifts and with bad gear can solo any high tier battlefields on difficult and very difficult



And not sure how he is "seeing" them if they are in battlefields.

As a BST in mediocre gear with not many job points, the only NM from recent times I've been able to solo is one of the NMs that pops among the ordinary mobs in escha zitah and I only did that by using my one hour and I am absolutely certain it would have been much easier to do the mob on BLU.

I have tried to solo unity NMs and gotten creamed. I tried an avatar on VE and got creamed, so not sure where this idea that some derp BST is soloing all the very difficult battlefields is coming from.

Yeah, I am a casual player, not a great DD etc. but the claim is being made that BSTs like me were clearing everything solo and it is simply not true. Abyssea NMs? Sure. So can everyone else. Meebles? Sure, so can everyone else.

Yeah BSTs *could* solo some difficult content. BSTs with capped points and hundreds of millions in augmented gear. Meanwhile, SCH, SMN, BLU, PUP, PLD, etc solo the same and some different things. Are there certain NMs that BST was better at than those jobs - sure - but there are plenty of NMs that bst is terrible for.



You said

That is not the same as "the world's best bsts, with capped job points and all the best gear."

I am a BST with "mediocre gear and not many job points" and I am telling you I can't solo anything relevant, not before the nerf and certainly not after. So unless you provide an example, I am calling BS.

Maybe you just assumed the BST had bad gear and no job points but they were capped and wearing hundreds of millions in augments. Still wanna know what NM you're talking about though that a *party* was struggling with and BST demolished. And how did the BST even get the NM? Did you let it go yellow? You all die?

And I would be SHOCKED if you could find me examples of more than maybe 1 or 2 solos that have EVER only been doable on BST. SCH and BLU are both way better at soloing NMs than BST.

I don't know what to tell you. The Beast Masters I saw would cream very easy avatars - not the other way around.

Still wanna know what NM you're talking about though that a *party* was struggling with and BST demolished. And how did the BST even get the NM? Did you let it go yellow? You all die

In an alluvium skirmish Beast Masters can go claim notorious monsters on their own. They do not have to wait for the party. He was demolishing notorious monsters the rest of the party had struggled with previously.

I tried to give you an example - the one that drops meteors. There is also the one that charms you - he took care of that one with ease also. Keep in mind you can fight multiple amounts of the same notorious monster in a single run. He obliterated most if all of the notorious monsters we encountered. He would also wipe out an entire screen of enemies in a single move. It was rather ridiculous and had we not even been there I don't think it would have made much difference.