Job Vision: Watch paint dry

[Alhanelem]

The tp move that dmg=mp is very good for a smn.

Myrkr is a lot better than Spirit Taker, just fyi.

[Karbuncle]

summoners have plenty to do, maybe your just not very good at it..

Really? Maybe you're just not playing with very good WHMs. Outside of Bloodpacting, name 1 other thing a SMN can do that other mages shouldn't already be handling.

I don't deny SMN is a great DD for Voidwatch Content, stuff like that where your pets being disposable is nice, and for uses such as Earthern Armor.

But they can't really do anything between BP timers that shouldnt already be taken care of by your mages. I mean sure if a lot of people are hit by an AoE they can help cure, But that really shouldn't happen much if your group is decent.

(please Note im talking about Voidwatch Content, Not abyssea)

[Leonlionheart]

My good intentions go unnoticed...

Forgot about Hastega, but either way /war is a horrible subjob for everyone but MNK, NIN and SAM, maybe THF and DNC in rare occaisons. Everyone else should either be subbing SAM for 2handed melee, NIN for DW, BLU for PvP, WHM for haste and Cure IV, or RDM for MP. Situational sh~~ is situational as always though...

For actual use, Hastega is just kind of nice. Haste goes out of party, and if your SMN is in a party where they can all be hasted at the same time, then something is wrong.

That's all I meant. sadface

[Alhanelem]

and if your SMN is in a party where they can all be hasted at the same time, then something is wrong.

Uh no, something is right, because that means you have a party full of cooperative, intelligent players who make it easy for other people to buff them.

[Razushu]

Uh no, something is right, because that means you have a party full of cooperative, intelligent players who make it easy for other people to buff them.

Al this will go nowhere again, the SMN is only good in fail groups argument will just be resurrected.

[Karbuncle]

Al this will go nowhere again, the SMN is only good in fail groups argument will just be resurrected.

Not entirely true.

SMN is actually quite useful in Voidwatch content. If you've done higher than T2 You'll realize this quickly :P

[Razushu]

Really? Maybe you're just not playing with very good WHMs. Outside of Bloodpacting, name 1 other thing a SMN can do that other mages shouldn't already be handling.

I don't deny SMN is a great DD for Voidwatch Content, stuff like that where your pets being disposable is nice, and for uses such as Earthern Armor.

But they can't really do anything between BP timers that shouldnt already be taken care of by your mages. I mean sure if a lot of people are hit by an AoE they can help cure, But that really shouldn't happen much if your group is decent.

(please Note im talking about Voidwatch Content, Not abyssea)

It doesn't matter how good the WHM is the party will always benefit from more support. Funny thing about those other mages that should be handling things is, SMN falls quite nicely into the same category with them.

[Razushu]

Not entirely true.

SMN is actually quite useful in Voidwatch content. If you've done higher than T2 You'll realize this quickly :P

I was referring to the 10+ pages of a thread me, all and LLH among others cyclically argued about SMN in parties with no progress or concession made lol, it was a special time.

I find my SMN useful in all kinds of situations, but I do hear SMN is amazing in voidwatch. When they add gear I want to void watch I'll have to try it lol

[Karbuncle]

It doesn't matter how good the WHM is the party will always benefit from more support. Funny thing about those other mages that should be handling things is, SMN falls quite nicely into the same category with them.

This is where our opinions differ then. If your support team can do the job without you just fine, like they should, using "More support !" as an excuse isn't good enough my friend.

You could technically throw out a Hastega, But what good group puts a SMN in the Melee party? rhetorical question none do nor should. SMN is best served in a BLM or Tank party. BLM party for Diabolos Whoring, Perhaps the Occasional Shiva-Favor or Diabolos' MAB Ward, and Tank party for Earthern Armor for higher teir VNMs (Its very helpful).

But again i say, Those fall under Bloodpacts. Outside of that If you're /WHM, You get Na's, and a few cures, and haste. thats all the uses from sub job WHM, on /SCH you get the same minus Haste.

So i'm not quite sure what you're trying to say at this point so I'll wait for another response and go from there. I still believe you can't do anything on SMN inbetween BP's that a Mage in your party should already be handling.

Sure, you could help, but realistically they don't need it. Obviously as I said if something huge happens like multiple people getting hit by an AoE due to bad luck, You help cure/na, But that shouldn't happen very often.

There are exceptions to the above, But they happen rarely or only as you said (and as we dont want to bring up) happen in groups where your mages are sub-par and cannot handle their tasks adequately.

[Razushu]

This is where our opinions differ then. If your support team can do the job without you just fine, like they should, using "More support !" as an excuse isn't good enough my friend.

You could technically throw out a Hastega, But what good group puts a SMN in the Melee party? rhetorical question none do nor should. SMN is best served in a BLM or Tank party. BLM party for Diabolos Whoring, Perhaps the Occasional Shiva-Favor or Diabolos' MAB Ward, and Tank party for Earthern Armor for higher teir VNMs (Its very helpful).

But again i say, Those fall under Bloodpacts. Outside of that If you're /WHM, You get Na's, and a few cures, and haste. thats all the uses from sub job WHM, on /SCH you get the same minus Haste.

So i'm not quite sure what you're trying to say at this point so I'll wait for another response and go from there. I still believe you can't do anything on SMN inbetween BP's that a Mage in your party should already be handling.

Sure, you could help, but realistically they don't need it. Obviously as I said if something huge happens like multiple people getting hit by an AoE due to bad luck, You help cure/na, But that shouldn't happen very often.

There are exceptions to the above, But they happen rarely or only as you said (and as we dont want to bring up) happen in groups where your mages are sub-par and cannot handle their tasks adequately.

My point is that when on SMN I am that mage that you claim should be handling it. I've been in melee parties and buffed them well, with no complaints. If I'm on SMN there's at most a WHM in the party so my support helps alot more than you think.

SMN support is only superflous if support is already covered, but the same is true of any support role. I wouldnt put a SMN in a group with a WHM + another support mage as that would be overkill, but SMN contributes just fine if it's SMN + WHM or RDM or SCH as the support in a party.