Job Vision: Watch paint dry

[Leonlionheart]

CDC: 3~7k usually like 4k if you have good gear on BLU (Loki's, etc).

Never seen a RDM do it, but I'm sure with enough thought in their gear they could pull off 4k (Really depends on their sub, I'd actually suggest RDM/WAR for fencer, though /NIN would be better for DPS I guess)

[Dallas]

Why would you try match RDM spells and Avatar damage, when you're talking about melee?

Damage is still damage. Your ignorance of hybrid jobs amazes me, especially since you've asked this question a dozen times.

[Alhanelem]

It is a great solo job.

It should be a lot more than that. All jobs should have a place in party play.

[Korpg]

Damage is still damage.

Is this your excuse as to why melee mage is acceptable?

Your ignorance of hybrid jobs amazes me, especially since you've asked this question a dozen times.

You of all people shouldn't throw in the word "ignorance." Because your ignorance of TP feed and survivability astounds me.

Yes, SMN is a hybrid job. It is not a specialist job, it is a job to adapt to many situations. Melee is not one of the situations it is supposed to adapt to because there are already many melee jobs out there. Healing is one of the situations, but it is limited by our avatars and BP timers. Unless you come with a subjob that enables healing. But a role of a job should not depend on the subjob choice in the matter.

[Korpg]

It should be a lot more than that. All jobs should have a place in party play.

Including BST? Where BST can probably solo the NM that a party can kill?

[Leonlionheart]

Including BST? Where BST can probably solo the NM that a party can kill?

in 5 times as long

[Razushu]

Damage is still damage. Your ignorance of hybrid jobs amazes me, especially since you've asked this question a dozen times.

Yes but damage done from backline or an independant source(pet), just don't count towards melee damage. We're discussing your melee damage not what pets can do.

[Korpg]

in 5 times as long

Hey, a solo is still a solo. My point is, not every job had a party role in mind. BST can do outstanding damage with their pets in a party, but where they truly shine is outside the party.

Like SMN.

[Alhanelem]

We're discussing your melee damage not what pets can do.

Personally, I discuss total damage, because without the master, the pet doesn't existt either. The pet's damage is part of your total contribution to the overall goal of reducing a monster's HP to zero.

Including BST? Where BST can probably solo the NM that a party can kill?

They made a lot of changes to BST to allow them to be accepted in parties better (though none of it really worked), including eliminating the penalty to EXP by using a charmed monster and adding the AoE killer effect sharing ability. Then they added a thief pet

[Razushu]

Personally, I discuss total damage, because without the master, the pet doesn't existt either. The pet's damage is part of your total contribution to the overall goal of reducing a monster's HP to zero.

As part of total contribution yes, count the pets damage. My point is the master doesn't have to do anything for the pet to deal damage, so it doesn't effect the discussion of melee SMN.