On Red Mage melee...

[Swords]

I'm still not sure I get what they're trying to prove by this. Is he trying to stick up to his parse?

I just don't see the logic is forcing someone to gear to someone elses standards and do a parse for a part of the game long dead. Im not saying you can't "Do it your way", I just don't think this is going to prove anything.

If anything it may validate his claim of what was possible at level 75 cap, But its a meaningless victory in a game at level 90. The real test should be trying to duplicate or best those results at level 90.

I just find absolutely no meaning in setting standards and purposefully mediocritizing(a made up word) your "opponent" for the sake of a parse. It should be Your best vs his Best.

You should both perform to your best standing, and let the results do the talking, even if you lose you could set a good baseline for some better geared RDM to take your place.

I'm inclined to agree with you on that point Karb, but the challenge was set at 75 by others, so it makes perfect sense to deliberate in gear that was used at that level. Albeit I think the challenge is to make the perfect excuse to rub it in his and others face's anytime the word Melee and Mage are mentioned in the same sentence. That aside, I highly doubt they would even reconsider their opinion even if he made it anywhere close to the alloted 80%.

[wish12oz]

I highly doubt they would even reconsider their opinion even if he made it anywhere close to the alloted 80%.

The whole point is that no RDM, no matter how well geared, will do anywhere near that to none-gimp DDs, if he does that I would change my opinion, but it simply won't happen. My SAM is gimp as heck, and I know I will still beat him by way more then that.

[Swords]

The whole point is that no RDM, no matter how well geared, will do anywhere near that to none-gimp DDs, if he does that I would change my opinion, but it simply won't happen. My SAM is gimp as heck, and I know I will still beat him by way more then that.

I wasn't naming anyone specific. While you may be willing to change your opinion if your proven wrong, we both know that there are nay-sayers no matter what evidence or proof is thrown at them. It's not just the whole RDM melee thing either, alot of concepts in this game are/were stagnated for the longest time by the same types of people until the majority of the yay-sayers vastly outweighed the nay-sayers, or until SE just flat out told us who was right and who was wrong.

Theoretically speaking, even if Hyrist won matching you or anyone else hit per hit, most probably wouldn't even glance at the data or give RDM any chance anyways.

[Duelle]

While you may be willing to change your opinion if your proven wrong, we both know that there are nay-sayers no matter what evidence or proof is thrown at them.

Well, far too few have been brave enough to shatter the "mold" in front of the naysayers, urinate on it and then challenge anyone to keep their naysayer mindset. Sadly, those that have and succeeded are game developers, not players.

Theoretically speaking, even if Hyrist won matching you or anyone else hit per hit, most probably wouldn't even glance at the data or give RDM any chance anyways.

This is not because people choose to ignore evidence, but because groups stand to gain more with the RDM in support. That will continue to be the case until something major changes about the job.

The concentration should be on here and now, and the point of the matter is 'damage' isn't going to win RDM any hearts. Any hard evidence of them actually achieving that damage just comes with the arguments players like you bark any time it surfaces. So obviously the answer has to be something you can't deny or accuse your fellow DD's of sucking for: A utility.

I'll continue to disagree with you here. Utility never, ever, makes up for lacking damage. It's a nice addition and contributes as both flavor and job/class identity, but it won't make up for lacking damage.

[Supersun]

I'll continue to disagree with you here. Utility never, ever, makes up for lacking damage. It's a nice addition and contributes as both flavor and job/class identity, but it won't make up for lacking damage.

Now that's just not true, it all depends on how much utility and what type.

I mean Haste Samba is utility and it adds quite a bit more additional damage. More damage then SE would have normally been comfortable adding to Dancer (and they already add quite a bit to that job)

[Duelle]

Now that's just not true, it all depends on how much utility and what type.

I mean Haste Samba is utility and it adds quite a bit more additional damage. More damage then SE would have normally been comfortable adding to Dancer (and they already add quite a bit to that job)

Not to be crass, because I want to be proven wrong on that point, but I'll respond to that by saying "been there, done that, seen it fall flat on its face save for one situation out of over twenty". And it still didn't convince people to allow the class in question to front line if they wanted to.

Granted, this is me being jaded by past experience, but I've seen little to no evidence of the contrary. I'd like to see SE prove me wrong, though.