On Red Mage melee...

[Thunderlips]

And I don't have to stand in the back line motionless, either. Well, okay, depends on the mob.

One question I have been thinking of is how much damage are you going to be adding when swapping weapons to cast spells (staves/clubs+sheilds/PDT/MDT options) or are you going to forego bonuses from those slots to keep your TP from resetting?

[wildsprite]

actually I think if we really want RDM to do better melee we need to push SE to fix the en spells to do more damage per hit on mobs weak to that element, as it is, the original en spells do very little difference toward mobs that are or are not weak to them, and the en spell II set, is kinda a joke, the originals hit both main and offhand weapons, the en spell II set hits only the main and what does it do, increases weakness to the elemental weakness of that enspell.....not a very big help unless you are helping nukers

[Rayik]

One question I have been thinking of is how much damage are you going to be adding when swapping weapons to cast spells (staves/clubs+sheilds/PDT/MDT options) or are you going to forego bonuses from those slots to keep your TP from resetting?

If I'm meleeing, I'm not swapping staves. I personally have pairs of MAB and M.Acc Shamshirs, just in case my spells need a boost. Really, if I'm meleeing it, chances are my capped and merited enfeebling skill is landing my spells just fine. If I'm having trouble landing spells, then I'll change up gear as needed. If I'm still not landing them, it's either highly resistant or flat-out immune. Don't really need M.Acc to land Cures and buffs, MND and enhancing gear swaps take care of that.

[Supersun]

One question I have been thinking of is how much damage are you going to be adding when swapping weapons to cast spells (staves/clubs+sheilds/PDT/MDT options) or are you going to forego bonuses from those slots to keep your TP from resetting?

Because we need more macc?

Seriously, if we can land it, we're going to land it with or without a staff.
From there the extra mind froma weapon slot is going to add like what? .3% more slow?

(Slow is really only so useful up until the point that your DDs can recast Utsu between swings.)

[Aurara]

Blus are in the back cannonball spamming on, but lowmaning stuff is becoming even more and more common, and with lowmanning hybridization is important. It would be nice to be able to perform to SOME decent standard at those times.

You perform well by making sure mobs are debuffed and melees hastes and mages refresh'd etc. Also blu doesn't spam cannonball if its that lowman, they usually melee(assuming they have almace/good melee/PDT/MDT builds).

[Karbuncle]

Well yeah, if we had sanguine natively I would think Joy/OaT Khanda would be optimal for damage.

Double attack loses quite a bit of value on a weapon when your primary WS can't double attack.

While I agree that losing Dual Wield is a pretty big hit on your DoT it's not quite as bad as if we were talking about a physical WS here and certainly not as bad as not wearing haste gear.

TP phase damage yes, it's about as bad, but I forget the numbers atm, but dropping dual wield isn't going to drop your WS frequency nearly as bad as dropping haste would, and it's not like magical WSs receive the +1fTP from dual wielding that a physical WS would receive.

Is it a hit to your damage? Sure, I estimate that it would drop us ~20%, but sometimes there are situations where you need the extra survivability even if momentarily at the expense of your damage.

Well i would have to respectfully disagree. Gaining a 25% boost to your attack speed is very significant, especially if you're already stacking 25% Haste and Haste spell. I would say far more significant than its being played as.

I'm not really knowledgeable on RDM melee, But i think Evisceration would be the better WS than Sanguine Blade for pure damage. Not including survivability. I'm working on the Assumption the RDM is trying to do his fair share of Damage.

I think even Death Blossom would be better than Sanguine for pure Damage.

Either way, Maybe we're arguing two different Aspects, but as far as pure damage goes, I think Evisceration will beat Sanguine Blade, and would be the better option, so Dual Wielding will always work in your favor (What with not needing to sub something lesser because of not having Natural Sanguine)

[Rayik]

You perform well by making sure mobs are debuffed and melees hastes and mages refresh'd etc. Also blu doesn't spam cannonball if its that lowman, they usually melee(assuming they have almace/good melee/PDT/MDT builds).

And this can all be done while meleeing. You do realize you can set the target for your spell in a macro, right? Standing there swinging weapons does not in any way impede on spellcasting.

[Supersun]

Dual Wield and Haste don't compound off of each other. Adding +25% dual wield is going to increase your TP damage by 33% irregardless of how much haste you have (unless you are hitting the delay cap obviously). Doesn't matter if you have 0 haste or 25 haste it's still going to increase it the same proportion.

And I really doubt Evi and DB are going to beat Sanguine on Rdm. We really don't have that great of options for physical WSs (and our dagger selection kinda sucks now), but we have AMAZING options for elemental WSs. Heck, I hit a 1.1k AE outside of abyssea, and my AE set is lacking some very important pieces. I myself would be using AE over sanguine blade, but that requires a TP bonus dagger and we are excluded from the TotM daggers while the martial knife kills your DOT. Even then Sanguine usually outperforms AE.

Though I do agree that this is only possible if we receive Sanguine natively.

[Thunderlips]

If I'm meleeing, I'm not swapping staves. I personally have pairs of MAB and M.Acc Shamshirs, just in case my spells need a boost. Really, if I'm meleeing it, chances are my capped and merited enfeebling skill is landing my spells just fine. If I'm having trouble landing spells, then I'll change up gear as needed. If I'm still not landing them, it's either highly resistant or flat-out immune. Don't really need M.Acc to land Cures and buffs, MND and enhancing gear swaps take care of that.

However then you are negatively impacting your melee by using M.Acc weapons instead of STR+ using those weapons. You do lose the bonus MND+ from weapon/shield to buffs as well as MND based debuffs. Also no cure potency+ staff/club for curing?

Pretty sure a HQ/magican staff is going to outdo the +INT and MAB you get off the dual wielded swords as well.

And this can all be done while meleeing. You do realize you can set the target for your spell in a macro, right? Standing there swinging weapons does not in any way impede on spellcasting.

I guess this would come down to the person playing the job, but I would have to say from person experience I have seen people let buffs slide so they can get those last 1-2 melee swings in they need to hit 100 TP and do another WS.

[Karbuncle]

Dual Wield and Haste don't compound off of each other. Adding +25% dual wield is going to increase your TP damage by 33% irregardless of how much haste you have (unless you are hitting the delay cap obviously). Doesn't matter if you have 0 haste or 25 haste it's still going to increase it the same proportion.

And I really doubt Evi and DB are going to beat Sanguine on Rdm. We really don't have that great of options for physical WSs (and our dagger selection kinda sucks now), but we have AMAZING options for elemental WSs. Heck, I hit a 1.1k AE outside of abyssea, and my AE set is lacking some very important pieces. I myself would be using AE over sanguine blade, but that requires a TP bonus dagger and we are excluded from the TotM daggers while the martial knife kills your DOT. Even then Sanguine usually outperforms AE.

Though I do agree that this is only possible if we receive Sanguine natively.

As i said I'm not amazingly indepth on RDM melee, Just always figured Evisc > Sanguine.

However, Twilight Knife is a pretty decent dagger for RDM, very decent even... But its true RDM WS Gear is rather limited, Hell even on THF on mobs like Dynamis-Xarc my Evis rarely average higher than 1k unstacked... Maybe I'mdoingitwrong (I don't think i am -.-) but i can see how a RDM would be far worse off.

I need to play with RDM a bit more, But i still think losing Dual wield would not be worth gaining Sanguine Blade. I could be wrong, Just my view on it. (though i think you said that in your last line).