WAR Job Ability 90+: "Weapon Mastery"

[kingfury]

You forgot to /stagger in your last post.

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lol /cues joke drumroll ^^

[Minsc]

Just do us all a favor and admit you want this for procs and procs only. You go on and on about it being because you want to have the choice, but any WAR with a brain would never choose scythe over GA or polearm over GA unless they're trying to proc something. You said something to the effect of, "Why ride a bike if you can drive a car?" By your logic, if there is a BLM and WHM in your PT, you ask for a Tele-Mea, get a chocobo and OP home (even though a Warp II would clearly be faster), just because you have that choice. Better yet, you must walk to Tele-Mea because you have that choice. However, I doubt you do all of that just like I doubt that you want this ability for anything other than procing.

"A THF is a DD, and pretty good one at that, but does that mean they should envy a WAR because of their design to hit hard? Nah. They have a great roll and they do it well. What about a SAM or a DRG or a DRK? Yes, they're DD's, but that doesn't mean they were designed to be the hardest hitting DD's in the game."

Let's not forget, WAR was originally designed to tank. SAM, DRG and DRK were originally designed to be DDs.

You also say, "The good thing about WAR is that I don't have to level another job to be efficient at another weapon since that's apart of our core job design." So by that logic, why should anyone level any other DD job if WAR has it all? Hell, why stop there? Why don't we give WAR a Jump and Cover and Magic and make Mighty Strikes a 1 minute recast and give them a new 2hr called "God Mode" where you essentially get the effects of a brew for 119 minutes? I enjoy playing WAR just as much as anyone, but I also see the sense in at least trying to keep things as balanced as possible. Your idea sucks, friend.

[Arcon]

This line,
• "But you're not asking for any "useful" WS, you're asking for WS that have no merit in using other than to stagger mobs."

And this statement,
• "They do know how, but they see no point in it, because they simple aren't as useful as they WS they have. Name one WS a WAR needs to be more efficient, in any conceivable way (not just damage), apart from staggering."

are battling each other.

No? I don't see how that's even remotely a contradiction, but instead just reinforcing the same point, that you only want weak new WS, because we already have many strong WS (as you pointed out yourself). If you're looking for a contradiction, here's one:

Can't say "[other weapons will] never be as good"

you don't have to worry that I'm trying to say GA isn't the #1 choice for DD'ing on WAR because it really is. There's no argument there.

Other weapons will never be as good. They might occasionally be useful, they might even still be able to DD competitively (which is what, I'm guessing, you meant), but they will never be as good. And people don't see a reason to settle for second best. People don't even play with a normal axe anymore, because it can't measure up. So why settle for something less than ideal? Do you have that much fun playing with other weapons for the sake of using other weapons? Not gaining anything useful by it? If you do, I don't blame you. But you're the only one I know.

The funny thing is, that you already can play with all other weapons, and you already have great weapon skills for these weapons (which you personally bragged about). So why could you possibly wanna be able to use other weapon skills? Because you just always wanted to use Energy Drain on your WAR?

Trust me, a VERY high percentage of WARs DO NOT even equip other weapons enough to know how to get the most out of them.

I'll tell them how: same way as with every other WS.

Half of the folks that are spitting flame at my suggestion don't even know their potential, so it's easier to put something down that you don't understand/don't want to understand. They REALLY DON'T know how Arcon, because if they did they would see the validity in my suggestion which opens the door for more options.

They do, they just don't agree with you. I know other WS can be "good", but not as good as a great axe. And since they don't have any other interesting properties, I don't see why you would use them. The only reason would be, to experience new things, for the role-play value. And that is precisely why the job system exists. Why some jobs can do things other jobs can't.

Now you argue, that WAR is meant to be a master of all weapons (which is false), and therefore should have access to more weapon skills. WAR, in fact, is "experienced" at many weapons. They are specifically not meant to be master of all. That's the reason why they lack some WS with every weapon except for the axes. Based on the fact that they're experienced at other weapons is precisely the reason why they're so good with them already. But you seem to be hellbent on taking it beyond their outline and making them absolutely proficient with each.

It just makes no sense to me that we have such high combat ratings with these weapons and not the WS's to match.

This is also part of your contradiction. Saying we have so many great WS and can break 5k easily, then say we don't have the weapon skills to match those weapons.

If Abyssea had never been released, I would still have suggested this to the Devs, so for the last time ABYSSEA TRIGGERING IS NOT WHY I'M PROPOSING THIS

It doesn't matter why you suggested it, we just said that's the only reason why people would be using it. If it's not possible to stagger mobs with those, people won't use them at all and the JA will be useless again.

This line and following statements,
• "To me that just sounded like this:
"We already have so much, and we'll get even more in the next updates, so it only makes sense to let us have more still!"

Uhh... correct. Sounds a bit Mojo Jojo'ish when you put it like that (redundant), but yeah, that's pretty much the logic.

And that's why people object. Apart from the fact that it would upset the game balance (in a role-playing way) and that it's not useful (in a gameplay-way), it's the logic with which you defend it. No one agrees with that point of view. Here you say:

Now, you and others are saying my suggestion of trying to bolster that job design is off base? Why? No other job can do what we can do with weapons is my point, so why not reward that?

Why do you wanna reward a job description? WAR can use plenty of great WS already (as you admitted), isn't that the reward? And you think it's not, while other people say it is.

[Leonlionheart]

Simply put again: People will use whatever deals the most damage in the least amount of time.

This ability will either make that another weapon, or do absolutely nothing.

[kingfury]

@ Arcon:

When I said your statements were "battling each other", I meant that If they in fact knew how to get the most out of the current weapon skills WAR has access to, they wouldn't say they were "not useful". The new ws's that would open up to WAR like Guillotine, Spinning Slash, Hexa Strike, and more are not "weak" WS's at all. If a WAR got their hands on them they would most definitely be beastly in terms of damage output.

>< I know you know that some weapon skills require more than just STR to push out the most damage. Some take piling on stats that are foreign to WAR like INT, MAB, and MND. Some you don't spam at 100 TP, others have their potential unlocked with a WARs 2hr. Your response to "everyone else" would have them frustrated real quick and tossing down weapons left and right if you're suggesting using the GA WS mentality only. I'm not bragging about the damage I've done on these weapons, I'm trying to prove a point about their potential. 1.5-2k+ is still pretty darn good damage outside Abyssea as far as I'm concerned, so it wouldn't be a waste if you're pulling in those kinds of numbers.

Yes, you're right about me playing with other weapons for my own enjoyment, but what happens when that enjoyment turns into expertise and I can suddenly hold my own with the other DD's in the party? What happens when I'm matching their numbers in most cases? And no, I'm not talking inside Abyssea, since no damage can out due Emp. wpns in there.

I'll never say that I'm not happy with all the great WS's WAR can use currently, because I am. It's the very reason I'm suggesting this JA in the 1st place. There are more powerful options just staring a WAR in the face that other jobs don't use anymore because they can't get the most out of them like a WAR could. All I'm asking for is as we continue to grow, so should our skills and expertise. That's the bottom line. The entire FF game mechanic is based on such a logic. You start off with few skills and spells, and as you grow in experience, you learn more skills and spells. It's sound logic and no different from what I'm suggesting. at lvl 75, a WAR has limited access to lots of WS's across multiple weapons. Level 95+ should allow access to more of those WS's is all I'm saying.

[kingfury]

Simply put again: People will use whatever deals the most damage in the least amount of time.

This ability will either make that another weapon, or do absolutely nothing.

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Correct. There's nothing to argue about that. /

[Atomic_Skull]

If they did this wouldn't they have to rename Warrior to "Munchkin" at the same time?

[Minsc]

Yes, you're right about me playing with other weapons for my own enjoyment, but what happens when that enjoyment turns into expertise and I can suddenly hold my own with the other DD's in the party? What happens when I'm matching their numbers in most cases? And no, I'm not talking inside Abyssea, since no damage can out due Emp. wpns in there.

I'll never say that I'm not happy with all the great WS's WAR can use currently, because I am. It's the very reason I'm suggesting this JA in the 1st place. There are more powerful options just staring a WAR in the face that other jobs don't use anymore because they can't get the most out of them like a WAR could. All I'm asking for is as we continue to grow, so should our skills and expertise. That's the bottom line. The entire FF game mechanic is based on such a logic. You start off with few skills and spells, and as you grow in experience, you learn more skills and spells. It's sound logic and no different from what I'm suggesting. at lvl 75, a WAR has limited access to lots of WS's across multiple weapons. Level 95+ should allow access to more of those WS's is all I'm saying.

And once again, by your logic, why should anyone level any other jobs if WAR has it all? Every DD job has a weapon their best at...

WAR = GA
DRG = Polearm
DRK = Scythe
SAM = GK
MNK = H2H
THF = Dagger
etc...

You have such a hard on for WAR that you're pretty much asking...

WAR = ALL

...and you don't care how it will affect other DD jobs.

Either you've done all you can on WAR with the weapons/skills/JAs it has available that you've become bored with it or you want WAR to be able to proc everything except yellow.

[kingfury]

And once again, by your logic, why should anyone level any other jobs if WAR has it all? Every DD job has a weapon their best at...

WAR = GA
DRG = Polearm
DRK = Scythe
SAM = GK
MNK = H2H
THF = Dagger
etc...

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Wait, wait, wait, don't stop there! What about PLD, RDM, and BLU? What happened there? I've posted this example already, but I'll give it to ya again if you missed it.

"plenty of jobs already share the same WS's like PLDs, BLUs, and RDMs. Do you say then that these jobs are encroaching on each others uniqueness because they share damn near every WS's Sword has to offer save Relic, and Mythic WS's (since even the Emp. WS is shared)? Of course not. Each job plays in their own unique way and has no issues because they share the same WS's."

Again, for the umptenth time ^^ None of these jobs would be in anymore danger of losing what makes them unique than they already are based on what WS's WAR has already. The OP ask for all basic WS's, not ALL WS's. Check the OP again in regards to the crappy Abyssea trigger stuff as I've updated that part. Couldn't care less about Abyssea triggering, but more WS's Yes please.

Jobs distinguish themselves by their JA's. You level a job for what they can do and what their designed to do. SE designed most other Melee jobs to be dependent on 2-3 weapon choices to deal good damage on. WAR was designed outside of that mold. They are the most versatile Melees in the game by design. If you want to benefit from that design, level a WAR, if not level another job.

You have such a hard on for WAR that you're pretty much asking...

WAR = ALL

...and you don't care how it will affect other DD jobs.

Either you've done all you can on WAR with the weapons/skills/JAs it has available that you've become bored with it or you want WAR to be able to proc everything except yellow.

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WAR brings a lot of happiness to lots of folks yes, but No, I've never said all.

[kingfury]

If they did this wouldn't they have to rename Warrior to "Munchkin" at the same time?

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Qué? o.^