WAR Job Ability 90+: "Weapon Mastery"

[kingfury]

Mastering other weapons: play other jobs.

People argue with you because of three reasons:
1. It would only be used to make WAR proc everything
2. Apart from that, it's not needed. None of those WS are even useful for WAR, even if they did use those weapons for whatever reason
3. Your relentless reasoning: "We already have so much, so it only makes sense to let us have more!"

Those are things that won't change, people who dislike these things now will always dislike them, so please stop trying to convince everyone.

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I had use for all of my weapons far before Abyssea ever came along Arcon >< It's the players that never found use for these weapons before Abyssea that believe this post is geared towards Abyssea. Yes triggering would be possible in Abyssea, but that's a side benefit at best from what my suggestion is aiming for.

Again, if a WAR doesn't know how to push the weapon skills they have already on those weapons, I don't expect them to even understand the point of getting more. My definition for effective ws damage (outside of Abyssea) is 1.5k+ damage. I can achieve this kinda damage on all the melee weapons a WAR can wield, so their "effective" for me. Again, I find enjoyment out of playing with different weapons, and pushing the limits of what can be done through the versatility of WAR.

Let me tailor your interpretation of what I'm trying to reason with you about:

"Your relentless reasoning: "We already have so much,(And as the level cap rises towards 99, we're only going to become more adept at what we do through higher combat skills, new JA's, new JT's, and newer/more powerful gear and weapon choices) so it only makes sense to let us have more!"

I'm not reasoning anything that isn't already going to take place in terms of WAR's imminent evolution as we approach 99. I'm simply suggesting what I believe would be a nice addition to WAR's future abilities.

No one can say what's going to change for this game at this point. No one even knew we would be where we are today, doing the great things we can do now. FC and Ukko's, ‹Thank you!› Devs ^^ I'm not too much concerned with folks that have WAR envy as they'll continue to be mad if we get ANYTHING in future updates lol.

[Ryozen]

You forgot to /stagger in your last post.

[Leonlionheart]

You can suggest it all you want, but it's a horrid idea.

Not trying to discourage you from making new ideas, but get over this one.

This will be about as useful as footwork.

[Arcon]

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I had use for all of my weapons far before Abyssea ever came along Arcon >< It's the players that never found use for these weapons before Abyssea that believe this post is geared towards Abyssea. Yes triggering would be possible in Abyssea, but that's a side benefit at best from what my suggestion is aiming for.

It's a side effect from your point of you, but the raison d'etre from everyone else's point of view. There were WS I used other than GA. But most of the good non-axe WS are already available to WAR as it is now, especially considering the new WS: Vorpal Blade, Penta Thrust, Herculean Slash, Spiral Hell, Black Halo, Retribution. The only weapon type missing from that list is Hand-to-Hand (and obviously Katana and Great Katana, which aren't covered by your idea anyway). But you're not asking for any "useful" WS, you're asking for WS that have no merit in using other than to stagger mobs.

Again, if a WAR doesn't know how to push the weapon skills they have already on those weapons, I don't expect them to even understand the point of getting more.

They do know how, but they see no point in it, because they simple aren't as useful as they WS they have. Name one WS a WAR needs to be more efficient, in any conceivable way (not just damage), apart from staggering.

My definition for effective ws damage (outside of Abyssea) is 1.5k+ damage. I can achieve this kinda damage on all the melee weapons a WAR can wield, so their "effective" for me. Again, I find enjoyment out of playing with different weapons, and pushing the limits of what can be done through the versatility of WAR.

And again, the WS you're suggesting we get access to don't fall within any margin of "effective". The only exceptions would be Dragon Kick, Asuran Fists, Black Halo, Guillotine and maybe Spinning Slash. For all of those weapons (except Hand-to-Hand) WAR already has access to good WS. And notice that 4/5 of those are also stagger WS.

Let me tailor your interpretation of what I'm trying to reason with you about:

"Your relentless reasoning: "We already have so much,(And as the level cap rises towards 99, we're only going to become more adept at what we do through higher combat skills, new JA's, new JT's, and newer/more powerful gear and weapon choices) so it only makes sense to let us have more!"

I'm not reasoning anything that isn't already going to take place in terms of WAR's imminent evolution as we approach 99. I'm simply suggesting what I believe would be a nice addition to WAR's future abilities.

To me that just sounded like this:
"We already have so much, and we'll get even more in the next updates, so it only makes sense to let us have more still!"

And I can assure you that's what it sounds like to most people (because that's what you said). You really don't see why people object to that? You say you want diversity, but the game already has diversity. The same argument you bring about "wanting to experience other things than a Great Axe" other people say to you about experiencing other jobs. Other weapon skills are simply available to other jobs. That's like a WHM wanting to be able to cast every white magic spell in the game, because it's just their thing, or a PLD wanting to be able to have every defensive measure in the game, because they're the iconic tanks. Some things are just not meant for certain jobs, despite how it may look like. If you want to experience other weapons, you already have the means to do it. It sounds like you just want it without having to do the work for it (i.e. level the required job).

I'm not too much concerned with folks that have WAR envy as they'll continue to be mad if we get ANYTHING in future updates lol.

Their envy is well-placed imo. WAR was already a very strong DD, arguably the strongest (bar relic SAM), yet SE pushed it a lot further. Balance was one of the aspects of the game that I always appreciated. The fact that a good WAR could out-damage any other average job. And the fact that a DNC could do the same. This is not really possible anymore, even great DNC have a very hard time just keeping up with an average WAR. Sure, they can do other things instead, but same goes for other jobs. That's not how it should be imo.

[Ryozen]

How do you figure that Relic SAM out-DDs Empyrean WAR?

[Arcon]

How do you figure that Relic SAM out-DDs Empyrean WAR?

I was talking about how WAR was already an outstanding DD pre-Abyssea (from my experience the best, bar relic SAM), and instead of balancing things out, SE pushed WAR even further ahead (with or without Ukonvasara).

[Leonlionheart]

Arcon, there's no logical way to tell kingfury off but for him to stop trolling. He's been regurgitating the same reasoning up for the last few pages now.

Someone states that WAR uses GA because it's the best, and using something else would just be less efficient.

Then he says that WAR should try other things.

Then someone says that WAR uses GA because it's the best, not because it's all they have.

But WAR should try other things.

But GA is the best, no way around it.

But WAR should try other things.

...

At this point he's just trolling.

[kingfury]

@ Leonlionheart:

Uh, no, responding to folks that ask the same questions over and over again isn't trolling. Again, I've already stated that this has never been a question of which weapon is best to DD with (a Great Axe) so there's no need to try and make it sound like my logic is off. Pay attention to my post before you try calling others trolls. Actually READ what I post perhaps, so you don't make a troll out of yourself.

"Variety, Choice, and the fun of mastering multiple weapons. ^^

Can't say "they'll never be as good" since that's a factor that's based on the expertise of the player wielding the weapon and the weapons/gear/JA's/JT's/and such that are being planned for us for future updates.

I understand your stance Leon, and you don't have to worry that I'm trying to say GA isn't the #1 choice for DD'ing on WAR because it really is. There's no argument there. My point, even from the OP is that WAR does truly excel at using these other weapons enough so to be considered worthy contenders as DD'ing choices along side GA."

[kingfury]

@ Arcon:

This line,
• "But you're not asking for any "useful" WS, you're asking for WS that have no merit in using other than to stagger mobs."

And this statement,
• "They do know how, but they see no point in it, because they simple aren't as useful as they WS they have. Name one WS a WAR needs to be more efficient, in any conceivable way (not just damage), apart from staggering."

are battling each other. If you can't clear 1.5-2k+ damage with Spiral Hell, Evisceration, Ground Strike, Full Swing, Black Halo, and more consistently on WAR right now, then I can understand these statements. Trust me, a VERY high percentage of WARs DO NOT even equip other weapons enough to know how to get the most out of them. Most only just recently skilled them up to be able to hit mobs in Abyssea to trigger effectively! Not knowing that most of these ws's can reach 5k+ dmg once buffed in Abyssea. Half of the folks that are spitting flame at my suggestion don't even know their potential, so it's easier to put something down that you don't understand/don't want to understand. They REALLY DON'T know how Arcon, because if they did they would see the validity in my suggestion which opens the door for more options.

This isn't about "needing" another WS to be more efficient either Arcon. A GA and Axe satisfies our "needs" just fine, since those are our main weapons. The suggestion is trying to make sense of the logic that WAR will continue to be on par combat skill wise as those that use these weapons as their Main job weapon choice. It just makes no sense to me that we have such high combat ratings with these weapons and not the WS's to match.

If Abyssea had never been released, I would still have suggested this to the Devs, so for the last time ABYSSEA TRIGGERING IS NOT WHY I'M PROPOSING THIS >< lol. Hell if you like I'll include that these WS's under Weapon Mastery WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TRIGGER monsters in Abyssea just to prove it for ya (I'll put this on OP shortly). Hopefully that'll kill this portion of the topic for good. ^^

This line and following statements,
• "To me that just sounded like this:
"We already have so much, and we'll get even more in the next updates, so it only makes sense to let us have more still!"

Uhh... correct. Sounds a bit Mojo Jojo'ish when you put it like that (redundant), but yeah, that's pretty much the logic. The good thing about WAR is that I don't have to level another job to be efficient at another weapon since that's apart of our core job design. That's what we do, we're "Masters of all things Melee". Now, you and others are saying my suggestion of trying to bolster that job design is off base? Why? No other job can do what we can do with weapons is my point, so why not reward that? Again, it's just something I believe would make sense with all the high combat skills we have and will have in future updates.

Rather than envy a WAR, I say find ways to be the best at what it is your job is designed for. A lot of folks don't get that there's diversity even amongst job function classes. All melee oriented jobs can technically be called a DD since they cause damage, but that doesn't mean they were meant to do the most damage during battle. A THF is a DD, and pretty good one at that, but does that mean they should envy a WAR because of their design to hit hard? Nah. They have a great roll and they do it well. What about a SAM or a DRG or a DRK? Yes, they're DD's, but that doesn't mean they were designed to be the hardest hitting DD's in the game. By design, I'm talking about JA's, JT's, weapon/gear options and such. On my taru WHM, I have a TotMs Affinity staff with damn near the same amount of MAB gear as a BLM(mixed in with MND), yet I can't even get close to 3-5k nuke damage using Divine magic. It's frustrating, yeah, but that's the design of their job to do those numbers. Does it stop me from trying to bolster my Divine magic damage numbers? Hell no. I'm happy that I can clear 2K+ at times with Holy, and can't wait to see what new things are on the horizon for damage boosting options.

This really doesn't have to be an on going back and forth guys. I've already said my peace with this thread suggestion, in that I just hope that there will continue to be an outlet for having such high combat skill ratings on WAR as we approach lvl 99. If you disagree, that's fine, and I'm not bashing your opinion. It's just a wish from my WAR, that's all.

[kingfury]

**Edit to the OP**

**EDIT** Certain weapon skills, under certain conditions that are unlocked via this JA that are used for Red and Blue triggering on monsters inside Abyssea will cause them to not trigger for the WAR using this JA only.

Example:
A WAR/SAM uses Weapon Mastery to unlock the dagger weapon skill Cyclone in the attempt to try trigger Red on a NM, yet no Red trigger will be possible for the WAR since this JA is active. If another party member natively has Cyclone available based on their Main or Sub job, they will be able to trigger Red using Cyclone on the NM. The WAR will still be able to receive the hint message from using Cyclone however.