WAR Job Ability 90+: "Weapon Mastery"

[SNK]

That would kill a lot of the uniqueness of all the other melee jobs.

It's unbalanced and unnecessary.

This in a nutshell. I know you love your war but now you're being greedy.

[kingfury]

This in a nutshell. I know you love your war but now you're being greedy.

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^^ It's not greed, it's natural progression. By level 99, a WAR will have combat skill ratings for 13 weapons in the 300-400 range, and will be able to use them all effectively with proper gear and experience. 13 weapons are at a WARs disposal already. Is that "greed"? I didn't design WARs versatility folks, SE did. As it stands, WARs can already out damage other jobs using the skimply list of ws's we have amongst those 13 weapons as long as they know how to play the job. An experienced WAR can use a dagger with just as much efficiency as a THF or DNC in terms of damage. Our JAs, combat skill levels, JTs, and gear options make it all possible. It's already there... I'm not asking for anything that isn't already there. You can't break something that's already functioning by bolstering it.

If I was asking for Trick Attack or Barrage to be made available to WARs for a time, that would equate to trying to steal the uniqueness of other jobs. THF's still use evisceration to this day, and a WAR that's planned the gear around it can use that same ws just as effectively. This fact doesn't make that THF any less of a THF. A WAR can't DO what a THF does in terms of job performance and thus a ws is just a ws. They're used to cause damage to a monster. I've said it a few times already, even if SE gave WAR every ws in the game, no job would be in danger of losing their qualities that make them unique. Not a single one.

The Devs would have to alter WS's game-wide for this "robbing of uniqueness" to truly happen. If WS's when used by a specific job had "job specific aftermaths" (kind've like Mythics), and WAR was able to benefit from those job specific aftermath effects, THEN it would be unfair and imbalanced.

Example: Evisceration (THF, DNC)"Aftermath" reduces targets accuracy. Enhances evasion.

If WARs could benefit from those same effects, that would warrant the "greediness" you speak of. Until such a change is made to WS's game wide, plenty of jobs already share the same WS's like PLDs, BLUs, and RDMs. Do you say then that these jobs are encroaching on each others uniqueness because they share damn near every WS's Sword has to offer save Relic, and Mythic WS's (since even the Emp. WS is shared)? Of course not. Each job plays in their own unique way and has no issues because they share the same WS's.

I'll leave this Thread suggestion with this, if you don't understand what WARs can do currently with the weapon skills we already have, I fully understand this suggestion being something that's way to hard to swallow. Hell, MOST people that play WAR don't even know the potential they hold due to the box people try to put them in in terms of what they "should" be using to DD. I don't expect you to agree with something like this if you haven't been exposed to the potential that's already there within WARs design with these weapons. My suggestion is aimed at the Dev team since they are the ones that gave WAR their versatility to begin with. I simply ask that WAR continues to have a reasonable and fair outlet with these weapons as we move forward towards level 99. That is all.

Thanks for listening Devs /salute
Thanks to everyone's feedback, good or bad /

[Mojo]

This idea is like almost every other idea posted on these boards thus far. Some absurd request that essentially overpowers one job to the point where no others are required and that would completely imbalance several aspects of the game. It's no different than the general thread where players are requesting the feature to be able to exchange one seal for another. Any idea that completely remove diversity from the game in such a way as that is terrible. It's no surprise to me that you refer to yourself as a full time warrior. If you want to be able to use the abilities that other jobs have access to and that warrior does not, then go level those jobs instead of asking for them.

[kingfury]

This idea is like almost every other idea posted on these boards thus far. Some absurd request that essentially overpowers one job to the point where no others are required and that would completely imbalance several aspects of the game.

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Please do me a great favor and explain in what way a WAR being able to use a weapon skill would make any other job obsolete or not needed? If you can do so, then my friend your true beef is with SE and not my request at all lol.
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If any job in this game's only last true relevance and purpose is hinged on solely being to perform a weapon skill that no one else has access to, you should be worried more about adding to their abilities and not trying to encumber mine lol. Again I'll ask how gaining access to the standard weapon skills (or even quested ws's for that matter) would upset the game balance or over power a WAR? Would the fact that a WAR could use Hexa Strike really make WHM's near 0% usage during any party setting less relevant? Maybe the fact that if a WAR could use Sidewinder, would make a RNG completely worthless, right? Again, if that's the case, you should create your own thread that cry out for more power to the jobs you're worried about.
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Since you obviously don't understand what kind of dmg a WAR can do with his/her 13 usable weapons, perhaps you should lvl WAR 1st before requesting me to lvl a job that doesn't have as much versatility. If you understood the already built-in variety that a WAR has as a melee, you would see that I'm only asking for the next NATURAL step in a WARs evolution which is to get the most out of having access to so many weapons at such high skill lvls. The name of the request is based on an already built-in game mechanic man, "Weapon Mastery".
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A good WAR will continue to keep all his/her weapons up to capped skill lvls in the upcoming lvl increases regardless, but just picture this concept for a sec and tell me if it doesn't seem wasted to you:
WAR Level 99: Able to wield 13 weapons all capped skill levels, ranging somewhere in the high 300's(the lowest skills) to mid 400's(the B+ and A+ skills) if not higher, and only having access to 5/11+ dagger weapon skills... /stagger lol sounds like an incredible waste to me.
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Sorry but you should do your research before trying to blast a Valid request friend.

[ringthree]

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Please do me a great favor and explain in what way a WAR being able to use a weapon skill would make any other job obsolete or not needed? If you can do so, then my friend your true beef is with SE and not my request at all lol.
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Most players don't care about game balance until the game is balanced against them. While you may think your idea is great, SE has to consider all players and all jobs when maintaining game balance. Your argument is essentially that WAR should be able to do just about every WS in the game. Why would you bring any other job when WAR can do every single WS? Why would WAR or any other job have any unique aspects to their melee damage if that was the case?

You aren't thinking about game balance at all, and that is the premier consideration for SE when they are going to make a change to the game.

If you want to suggest a change, you should start by considering how the change will effect the entirety of the game. This will make the suggestion more legitimate. Just suggesting something that you think is "cool" without any thought about game balance is the fastest why to get a dev to look at your suggestion, roll their eyes, and move on.

[Mojo]

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Please do me a great favor and explain in what way a WAR being able to use a weapon skill would make any other job obsolete or not needed? If you can do so, then my friend your true beef is with SE and not my request at all lol.
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If any job in this game's only last true relevance and purpose is hinged on solely being to perform a weapon skill that no one else has access to, you should be worried more about adding to their abilities and not trying to encumber mine lol. Again I'll ask how gaining access to the standard weapon skills (or even quested ws's for that matter) would upset the game balance or over power a WAR? Would the fact that a WAR could use Hexa Strike really make WHM's near 0% usage during any party setting less relevant? Maybe the fact that if a WAR could use Sidewinder, would make a RNG completely worthless, right? Again, if that's the case, you should create your own thread that cry out for more power to the jobs you're worried about.
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Since you obviously don't understand what kind of dmg a WAR can do with his/her 13 usable weapons, perhaps you should lvl WAR 1st before requesting me to lvl a job that doesn't have as much versatility. If you understood the already built-in variety that a WAR has as a melee, you would see that I'm only asking for the next NATURAL step in a WARs evolution which is to get the most out of having access to so many weapons at such high skill lvls. The name of the request is based on an already built-in game mechanic man, "Weapon Mastery".
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A good WAR will continue to keep all his/her weapons up to capped skill lvls in the upcoming lvl increases regardless, but just picture this concept for a sec and tell me if it doesn't seem wasted to you:
WAR Level 99: Able to wield 13 weapons all capped skill levels, ranging somewhere in the high 300's(the lowest skills) to mid 400's(the B+ and A+ skills) if not higher, and only having access to 5/11+ dagger weapon skills... /stagger lol sounds like an incredible waste to me.
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Sorry but you should do your research before trying to blast a Valid request friend.

It should be pretty clear as to why this would imbalance the game. Efficiently playing Abyssea content revolves around weaponskill procs. WAR has access to a good number of them. What you're asking for is essentially access to almost all of. WAR can already tank most NMs in Abyssea with the support of a lone WHM, so essentially you would be rendering every other melee job pointless or second choice to WAR in terms of efficiency. Even outside of Abyssea this would be a bad step as it goes a good measure towards removing uniqueness of other jobs. You really think that a WAR should be just as adept at using a dagger as a THF?

Also, not that it should matter, but WAR is one of my favorite jobs. I'm one piece short of full Ravager's +2 and about 1/3 of the way through a completed Ukonsvarasa. Perhaps you should drop the air of arrogance you carry in assuming other players don't play jobs they don't want to see become absurdly imbalanced? Again, if you want to be capable of doing things that other jobs can do, then go level other jobs instead of asking devs to just give you everything.

[Valkrist]

This is a completely ridiculous idea. While you may think that giving WAR access to almost every WS in the game is a moot point, it's really asking for SE to break WAR even further.

Outside of Abyssea it may not matter so much for a WAR to be able to use Dancing Edge or Hexa Strike since, "my skill in the weapons will be nonexistant and that WARs don't have access to all the good weapons for this type. There's no way that I can do any real damage just by knowing all the WSes." But considering that almost everything in FFXI revolves around Abyssea nowadays, this would completely destroy the need to diversify jobs in the zones. Instead of needing a MNK and WHM around to proc all blue !!, let's just bring in a WAR. Instead of having a DRG and RNG, we'll just use a single WAR again. We need to proc red !!, we'll just bring a single WAR again since they do have a katana and great katana they can use as well.

The entire idea behind the !! system was to force jobs that may not normally be used, to be used. While it's true that WAR won't be doing damage with all those newfound WSes, it will completely ruin this system that was designed to help breaking the mold of, "SAM DDs onry." This ability you're proposing is doing absolutely nothing but causing the game to take one giant step backwards.

[kingfury]

This is a completely ridiculous idea. While you may think that giving WAR access to almost every WS in the game is a moot point, it's really asking for SE to break WAR even further.

Outside of Abyssea it may not matter so much for a WAR to be able to use Dancing Edge or Hexa Strike since, "my skill in the weapons will be nonexistant and that WARs don't have access to all the good weapons for this type. There's no way that I can do any real damage just by knowing all the WSes." But considering that almost everything in FFXI revolves around Abyssea nowadays, this would completely destroy the need to diversify jobs in the zones. Instead of needing a MNK and WHM around to proc all blue !!, let's just bring in a WAR. Instead of having a DRG and RNG, we'll just use a single WAR again. We need to proc red !!, we'll just bring a single WAR again since they do have a katana and great katana they can use as well.

The entire idea behind the !! system was to force jobs that may not normally be used, to be used. While it's true that WAR won't be doing damage with all those newfound WSes, it will completely ruin this system that was designed to help breaking the mold of, "SAM DDs onry." This ability you're proposing is doing absolutely nothing but causing the game to take one giant step backwards.

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See my recent post in regards to trying to speak "Balance" in reference to Abyssea zones

[kingfury]

alright, now we have a good o'l fashion debate on our hands
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Okie dokie, lets talk about this fear of WAR getting too much stuff that it would make other melee/DD jobs pointless 1st. In terms of Abyssea triggers, if this is your fear, you should already feel this way since based on the situation (and luck) a WAR really can trigger just about all Red and Blue triggers. Planning ahead, all a WAR has to do is change his/her sub to reduce the chances of not being able to trigger. Soooo, that being said, SE already had this in mind when creating Abyssea, otherwise they would have focused on ALL job specific ws only to trigger Reds and Blues. I'm also sure they realized that WARs efficiency with as many weapons would make them desirable when forming just about any events around Abyssea, so I don't think that argument is very strong either. Here's the point on this particular topic: Being able to more efficiently trigger Red and Blue inside Abyssea doesn't really upset over all game balance especially since Abyssea is a direct contradiction to "Game Balance" in the 1st place lol. Any job can alter their intended job role inside Abyssea by choosing the right Atmas upon entry, so lets just go ahead and say, who cares if a WAR could trigger all Red and Blue... I mean really, who would care? I mean, I would be pretty happy about it personally, but my point is WAR is already on the edge of this reality as we speak. Abyssea is not the reason I brought up this proposed JA at all truly. My concerns are for the further progression of what WAR already is. It's a dream zone, with dream stats. As soon as you leave, the game's mechanics are back to normal right? So, lets toss that fear to the wind since Abyssea party sizes are down to 2-3 members anyway.
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To Mirage and Ringtree- I say it sounds much more logical to give WAR access to all the standard weapon skills based on the 13 weapons we can use. WARs are the only job that have the unique pleasure of wielding all these weapons. A weapon skill doesn't make a job unique, job abilities make a job unique. A WAR has access to 11/15 possible sword ws's that a PLD can use. Does this mean a PLD is being robed of it's uniqueness because a WAR can do these 11 ws's? Absolutely not, and that fact would remain should a WAR have access to more ws's. A PLDs uniqueness comes from it's JAs and design. With that logic alone, a job ability that gave access to weapon skills would speak DIRECTLY to the functionality built into a WAR. SCH is a great example of this. SE designed SCHs to be versatile Mages, giving them access to both sides of Light and Dark magic right. That's their DESIGN. Using a JOB ABILITY (stratagems) to further expand their intended design. A WAR is designed to be the MOST versatile melee job in the game, so that's their DESIGN. (So to focus on your comment Mirage) Just like SCH has JAs that further unlock their effectiveness, a job ability such as "Weapon Mastery" would be no different. The draw back to my proposed JA is that not ALL ws's would be available (which is VERY similar if not exactly what SCHs do with stratagems, they don't gain access to ALL Light and Dark spells), just the standard ones plus any quested ws you've already unlocked. It's not stepping out of the design to ask for a JA as we approach lvl 99 that makes this fact shine like never before. It's not just me thinking it would be "cool" to have, and you don't have to take my word for what SE planned for a WAR to be. Just look at the skill lvls on the weapons and tell me what you think is logical progression for a non DRK having a scythe skill at 341 at lvl 90 with 9 more lvls to go should be.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Warrior
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Aaannndd to Mr.Mojo- the top argument squashes the 1st half of your comment. Abyssea isn't meant to be a "balanced" zone in the slightest, so there's no weight to this argument. Again I'll point out that ws's don't make a job unique, Job abilities do. A war being able to do a ws shouldn't rob any other jobs uniqueness in the slightest. It's not me that thinks WAR should be adept at using a dagger, it's SE. War has a B- in dagger skill currently at lvl 90 and the job is designed to be adept at all things melee:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Categoryaggers

For the latter half of your comment, I think the above argument deals with this fairly well. Point one: I'm sure you already understand that the gear you have means ka'put in terms of actually understanding and/or being an expert at ones job so I won't spend much time on that point. Point two: The real questions in regards to understanding the argument at hand are: Are all of your skill lvls capped? Yes, even Archery and Marksmanship lol. Do you have 9/10 quested ws's unlocked? If so, do you know how to get the most out of each ws (like pushing each ws to it's full potential)? Things like this is what set an experienced WAR apart from an inexperienced WAR. Now, you may have all melee jobs lvl'd and can say yes to these questions, but it's not arrogance if I've spent every year since '04 building/refining my skills only on WAR, it's just plain o'l experience. I don't claim to know everything about this game by no means, but I take pride in understanding the mechanics of WAR. I hold the same respect for other pros of their respective jobs, and truly believe that a WAR having access to certain ws's (NOT ALL lol never said all) SHOULD NOT be able to steal their thunder or uniqueness one bit. END
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Thanks for all the great feedback by the way to everyone even if you don't agree ^^ It helps greatly when others make you look harder into something you truly care about.

[Mirage]

stuff

It's not really a "job ability" because it can be on all the time, and has no downsides at all. Might as well just make WAR gain permanent access to the WSes at level 90.

Maybe it could work if it had some solid drawbacks, wore off after using a single WS, and had a longer recast.