jusr give us a personal dps tracker

[SaberMaxwell]

I mean, that's fair, but you must realize the arguments will never stop. Especially if your only answer is fear fueled an anecdote from a separate game entirely.

To reiterate my earlier point: SE shouldn't, because at this point it's too little too late. They'd never be able to catch up with user-generated tools and it'd be pointless to waste dev time trying to catch up. Whether they endorse third party tools is up to them, but fearmongers will always fearmonger.

[Ransu]

I mean, that's fair, but you must realize the arguments will never stop. Especially if your only answer is fear fueled an anecdote from a separate game entirely.

To reiterate my earlier point: SE shouldn't, because at this point it's too little too late. They'd never be able to catch up with user-generated tools and it'd be pointless to waste dev time trying to catch up. Whether they endorse third party tools is up to them, but fearmongers will always fearmonger.

I don't think its all that anecdotal. My experiences of watching people get vote kicked in other games for the most dumb reasons lines up completely with the reasonings given by Yoshi-P in the live letter. Even the WoW devs at one point said they regret allowing dps parsing.

[SaberMaxwell]

I don't think its all that anecdotal. My experiences of watching people get vote kicked in other games for the most dumb reasons lines up completely with the reasonings given by Yoshi-P in the live letter. Even the WoW devs at one point said they regret allowing dps parsing.

Could you please link the live letter where he said that, as well as where the WoW devs said that? I'd like to know the context of the statements given. It's quite possible that one was talking with near sole regard to the JP playerbase, particularly the Koike Incident which is a very solid thing to consider regarding adding anything kind of feature to a game. Something that must be considered though is that something like that could have happened parser or no parser. The DPS harassment was just one of many things they did, and even without an official parser, she still would have been harassed. None of that has anything to do with not wanting to party with people based on performance in party finder or vote kicking in duty finder.

Even then, I'd still say your own experiences are anecdotal. I don't doubt people are dumb and votekick for dumb reasons, but I would argue most situations where a votekick happens, a votekick would have happened anyway.

[Ransu]

Could you please link the live letter where he said that, as well as where the WoW devs said that? I'd like to know the context of the statements given. It's quite possible that one was talking with near sole regard to the JP playerbase, particularly the Koike Incident which is a very solid thing to consider regarding adding anything kind of feature to a game. Something that must be considered though is that something like that could have happened parser or no parser. The DPS harassment was just one of many things they did, and even without an official parser, she still would have been harassed. None of that has anything to do with not wanting to party with people based on performance in party finder or vote kicking in duty finder.

Even then, I'd still say your own experiences are anecdotal. I don't doubt people are dumb and votekick for dumb reasons, but I would argue most situations where a votekick happens, a votekick would have happened anyway.

https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU?t=260

People kicking players for dumb reasons will continue doing so with or without parsing - this is a losing battle you can't address by simply not adding things. Just like in kindergarden, people will find the dumbest ways to exclude each other. That's a psychological and community-level social problem and won't fix any time soon.

That said, WoW devs regretting that they have allowed dps parsing made me chuckle.

And adding an in game parser would simply make it worse. Parsing is a great tool, its also notoriously used for harrassment/bullying.

[SaberMaxwell]

https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU?t=260

Interesting. For reference, I didn't ask for this because I doubted he said that; I know well his stance, even if I disagree with it, I just wanted to know the specific context of the quote you were looking for. For what it's worth, I continue to disagree, both with your stance and his, especially when he goes on to say that any punishment for a third-party tool would be a punishment for harassment, not for the third-party tool, which is something that would remain true whether the parser was implemented or not.

And adding an in game parser would simply make it worse. Parsing is a great tool, its also notoriously used for harrassment/bullying.

This is simply an unprovable statement, and could be extrapolated to any tool including the chatbox.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I don't think its all that anecdotal. My experiences of watching people get vote kicked in other games for the most dumb reasons lines up completely with the reasonings given by Yoshi-P in the live letter. Even the WoW devs at one point said they regret allowing dps parsing.

People kicking players for dumb reasons will continue doing so with or without parsing - this is a losing battle you can't address by simply not adding things. Just like in kindergarden, people will find the dumbest ways to exclude each other. That's a psychological and community-level social problem and won't fix any time soon.

That said, WoW devs regretting that they have allowed dps parsing made me chuckle.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

particularly the Koike Incident

Oh boy. When I read up that incident was when my view of the JP xiv utopia flipped upside down. Good this is still remembered.

[FireMage]

And adding an in game parser would simply make it worse. Parsing is a great tool, its also notoriously used for harrassment/bullying.

Removing leeches isn't harassment/bullying

[Raikai]

I'm honestly all for this.

I mean, if the DPS parser is individual (shows only your own dps), there's no way fo you to be able to harass other people. This type of parser can be useful to keep your performance in check live - like, for example, gauging how crits are affecting your numbers.

[Gilihere]

Coming from a turbo casual gamer, who barely gets his feet wet on savage/ultimate:
Having a DPS meter could actually fix a lot of issues, the most important one being the transparency issue, for starters it wouldn't be an estimate as a certain program that shall not be named is, also people who name and shame for would in theory be easier to track.
On the other hand, it should also be an opt-in thing, as in if you want to parse, be aware that it "will" be public, and ALL your parses will be available, so no log shennanigans as: cherry picking logs, applying multipliers, and the rest of the BS you see around, again for transparency sake it would be a net positive.