Linkshell Management Recognition

**AlexiaKidd** · 05-27-2011 01:23 AM

Like I said I do hope they do something with them in the mean time and Valor your point about new players is spot on, for a long time we wouldn't take anyone who we thought might not stick around so only took player who we could see that had put the time in, we figured if they can put that much time into FFXIV in it's current state then they would be most likely in it for the long haul. We did that purely so we didn't have to keep breaking the shell to remove inactive players.

However recently we decided recently to open our doors to anyone and posted on here and it's been great. Just yesterday we took in 4 new members and 2 of them started that day. As we didn't have any classes below R25 it was going to be difficult to help them out so we made brand new characters as well to help them get on their feet. We managed to get all their classes to R10 and then get one to R20 in a few hours and it was a probably the most fun I have had in a long time on FFXIV. So yeah taking new players on can be great and so far for us it has been, but yes we are opening ourselves up to the chance that they may not like the game and thus we have inactive players in our LS.

**Rowyne** · 05-27-2011 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Thing is, Naoki Yoshida already responded a couple of times to this issue. The most recent being:

The dev team is actually split up into a bunch of smaller teams, each dedicated to a certain facet of the game. Off the top of my head, there’s the scenario team, the world settings team (including seasonal events), the item team, the crafting and gathering team, the battle team, the level design team, the art team, the character team, the BG team, the UI team, and so on and so forth. Each team focuses on certain game content or a particular system, and all teams’ tasks are ongoing simultaneously.

You make a very good point, Rhomagus. If the dev team is truly this organized and dedicated to specific areas of the game, I may have to retract my previous statement about priorities. It seems logical that this shouldn't take any effort away from implementing the battle system and new dungeons, if they get the UI team on it.

However, that is the official word:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post84754

Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Another of his initial qualms with the game was the lack of communication and that it should be addressed. That was very early on in the very first "Letter from the Producer" :

Much as we expected, the vast majority of players are spending most of their play time engaged in battle-oriented content, with synthesis activities coming in second. I cannot help but be concerned over the 4.6% result for socializing. This leads me to believe that in its current state, the game is lacking group-oriented goals and means of communication.

Another excellent point. One reason the game is losing appeal is because it feels empty and lonely. It seems Yoshi-P is aware of this and realizes how important it is to improve the social aspect of FFXIV. Having groups to party with will only fill that void to a certain extent, considering Behests and Leves are short scenarios and generally don't end with putting people on your friend list. Dungeons should prove to be more involved and leave you with a greater sense of interaction. However, your linkshell is really the center of socialization, who you build memories and emotional attachments with - something that will give people a reason to stay in Eorzea.

I think you're right, Rhomagus, giving us the tools to build the best linkshells that we can should be a priority. And Yoshi-P knows it.

All we're asking for right now is one option to remove people from our LS rosters at will, regardless of online status or location. Don't make us continue to break and reform. Don't make us afraid anymore of inviting new members. Please, dev team, make this happen!

**Rowyne** · 05-27-2011 03:41 AM

Originally Posted by EgweneALvere

I mean for Pete's sake they added a command to hide the gear on your head but not to remove members from your ls?? Who really wanted that? How many topics were repeatedly created about that? How could that possibly have been more important than better enabling the FFXIV playerbase to communicate??

LOL this. ^

**Rentahamster** · 05-27-2011 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by Catapult

There are two serious issues that have been in place and utterly unaddressed since the game was released.

This is one of them! The other is the billing system,

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/final...and-sage-sundi

@6 minutes in

"We are aware that there are many many steps to get in to FF14 from the moment the player opens the box until they get in to actually playing the game. Many steps especially compared to some of the F2P MMOs out there. However, there are a lot of MMos that have a complex system to start...while we sympathize with the users, we also are happy to let you know that this grueling process only needs to done once, and one the hurdle has been clear, it's smooth sailing."

This "grueling process" should only "need to be done" 0 times, lol.

**Rowyne** · 05-27-2011 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I still believe that the reason they are so quiet on the LS front is that they are going to be replaced with Player Companies when the Public Companies system is added. I think LS's were never meant to be in the game but as the Company system was not ready then they needed to knock something together fast and this is what we have.

That's the impression I get, as well. As I've previously stated, every time this is brought up, we're told there are bigger priorities, like Player Companies and the battle system. It would make sense if that actually meant that pretty soon, linkshells would be obsolete. But that's not exactly something you want to tell your players.

Either way, the whole process is just taking too long and we need a way to manage linkshell members, even if the whole system is just temporary.

**Rhomagus** · 05-27-2011 07:59 AM

May 26, 2011 Day#4

Originally Posted by Rhomagus

The only difficult thing to find will be someone arguing to keep it the way it is...

The above quote was from my entry yesterday May 25, 2011. I have only come across one argument for not implementing an open kick system. It was made by Kilta_Firelotus in this thread:

not tpo bump the thread but you guys are kinda being pathetic at this point. They told you what was up. Deal with it. There is alot more coding involed then you might think. And also ffxi never had a remove offline member option. Only a kick from anywhere option that was abused very quickly. I'm kinda happy removing members is a bit hard. Means you need to work harder on making sure the members you add are good.

You guys are letting people bug ya. Honestly how long do you wait before a huge list of people are "inactive" a week a mnth? Preferable id wait 2 mnths and 30 inactive people before letting ppl know of a LS remake.

Here is an idea for members make a temp trial LS and a main LS. When you meet new ppl put them in the temp LS that has a few member from the main, so you get a feeling for people.

What Kilta is asking for here is discretion when choosing linkshell members. I could see this working well for a more goal oriented or themed linkshell but, for a casual/social linkshell, having an open recruitment policy is great not only for existing members but for new players as well. I've heard from a new player the other day, freshly spawned into the Drowning Wench, "I hear this game doesn't get fun until you have a linkshell". This particular player was coming back from a long hiatus playing during Closed/Open beta and the initial CE/SE release. A friend of his had promised him a spot in her linkshell so he came back. Experienced (as in players who've already played the game and are giving it a second shot) new players are cynical at the outset, along with people who have done their research. Maybe I should take this comment with a grain of salt but if the statement is true, there is word floating around out there in the internet that states "In XIV, in order to have fun you must have a linkshell."

What happens to that player if they need to take a break and when they come back, their linkshell is broken? We had an LS member the other day who was paranoid that they had done something wrong because when they came back, they no longer had a linkshell. This situation could have been easily avoided. Obviously this member had enough sense to come back to the LS website and make that statement and ask for another pearl, but I've noticed many members assume either one of two things in this situation.

1.) The current LS is inactive because everyone quit.
2.) They were booted from their linkshell.

Rarely do people think of the third option.

3.) The LS had to reform because many of it's members quit, or moved to another linkshell, or became full (128 members) and had to make room for new recruits.

The Aes Sedai Tower on Besaid currently employs the method of a "starter" LS as Kilta suggested. It serves its purpose, to a degree, but also has the added side effect of causing people to feel alienated from the rest of the group. Not all members in the Aes Sedai Tower have the starter LS so when a new player has a question, it has a high chance of falling on deaf ears. Equipping the starter LS is on a volunteer basis and serves mainly as a "Mentor" icon if you're familiar with FFXI's system. On Besaid, some players actually carry a wide variety of RP/Casual/NM hunting LSs. They don't have room for a casual LS and it's sister shell as well. What is being proposed, by many people on these very forums, is a much simpler solution.

Give linkshell administrators the ability to kick members at will.

I am willing to concede to the point of showing discretion with recruitment policies, but only in certain contextual situations. It shouldn't be forced on the entire populace as a whole especially when there is a much simpler solution available.

This is the only argument I could find against incorporating a basic remove command that is not proximity based. It is also grounded from the annoyance of multiple threads on the same topic, and not necessarily the topic itself. The only people I see "speaking out" against having linkshell options aren't necessarily grounded in the topic itself, but stem from people making multiple threads on the same topic, which unfortunately, is off topic.

Another indirect support of keeping the administration options the way they are is the idea that it detracts from other more important issues like the battle system. In fact, this point was made by Rukkirii a Community Rep:

The development team is aware of your concerns but due to the fact that their current priority is the battle system, changes can’t be made right away, but they are thinking about doing this after. In order to implement these features, they would like to first implement text commands before this.

Please continue to send in your ideas for the dev. team!

Again, it's not even really support for keeping things the way they are, but more a reason as to why things can't be done about this issue at this time. The above quote is actually from a Community Rep. We can assume, if we so choose, that she is a reputable source.

The following is from Elexia, a player, not an SE representative. We do not need to assume that this is reputable as it is not an official statement from SE staff. It does offer a hint of insight as to what might be holding up SE in regards to the implementation of a simple "kick from anywhere" feature but at the end of the day, it's only speculation. If this same point were to be reiterated by an SE rep themselves the problem would surely be a little easier to swallow.

It's a programming issue as much as it is an UI design issue, which both goes hand in hand. Just because there's separate teams doesn't mean they don't intertwine.

If it was a client side interface it would be a simple fix. It's a serverside interface which means they have to do a bit more and why there's such limitations to begin with. It's why most MMOs settle on client side interfaces.

Both of these quotes are, again, from a player, not a developer. While grounded from a logical standpoint, and related to an earlier interview with Tanaka in regards to the inner workings of the Crystal Tools engine, we can't say for sure that linkshell administration options fall under this restriction. Nor can we overlook the fact that we have many other things that have been implemented prior to such a feature such as:

1.) A /display head off text command
2.) The enlargement of monsters
3.) A color coded equipment degradation system
4.) Lowering of anima depletion
5.) Addition of exclamation points to mark quest NPCs
6.) Several new targeting modes (that still don't fix the problem of targeting things right next to you)

I'm well aware that there are many threads asking for more linkshell commands and administration options. This thread was made with an even more humble goal in mind. Many posts have been made saying something along the lines of "I'm afraid to ask for anything beyond the most basic of things, just an option to kick people from the LS remotely is all we need for now." There have been requests beyond that but this thread asks for even less.

Linkshell Options needs it's own Dev-tag.

The community is asking that this be put on a higher priority from the development team. I'm pretty confident this issue is well known amongst the community team as they've already responded to it, but also remember, that in that response Rukkirii asked us to:

Please continue to send in your ideas for the dev. team!

Telling players to stop doing so is actually not what SE wants, if I'm to assume that Rukkirii is an SE representative. I don't see why I shouldn't. If anyone can come up with a good reason as to why I should then, maybe then I'll concede that people should stop posting about it, but until someone is able to thoroughly convince me I'll continue to post in this thread, and any other thread I see that covers the same topic.

**Rhomagus** · 05-27-2011 07:59 AM

Speaking of threads that cover the same topic, an excellent post was made by Poppa. I've quoted it in one of my responses to [Dev 1024] Linkshell Administration Options but I'll also post it here and in the OP:

Originally Posted by Poppa

If people so choose, they can visit all of the above threads and respond to them. This does raise an issue in regards to so many different threads covering the same subject. Some people agree with the topic but not how it's handled. I hope to alleviate that issue with this thread. Not only will I be incorporating what Poppa did into the OP, but I'll be doing the same thing myself and taking my own advice and responding meaningfully in those threads. I've already noticed players, in this very thread, supporting their claims with links to other posts. I think this is a good thing, but at the same time, it should be focused as well.

If you truly want this topic to survive I suggest posting in this thread and others as well. I don't think the Community Team is lazy, in fact I think they are very thorough in their deliberations. I'm sure these are being read. The only issue I have, and many others as well, is how it seems to be given less of an importance by the development team. It is abundantly clear that a simple command to kick members is much more important than, say, a /display head off command.

**Alothia** · 05-27-2011 08:26 AM

Let's keep these on the front page so they get some recognition...

**Balbanes** · 05-27-2011 10:20 AM

I get you, OP, I really do. However we already know improvements are in the works, and that SE's primary focus right now is the redesign of the battle system.

Changes don't happen quickly with things like this. I want LS commands as much as you or anyone else, too. But we need to let happen first what needs to happen. It sucks, but then again... we're not paying for the game...

**Dreamer** · 05-27-2011 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Balbanes

I get you, OP, I really do. However we already know improvements are in the works, and that SE's primary focus right now is the redesign of the battle system.

Changes don't happen quickly with things like this. I want LS commands as much as you or anyone else, too. But we need to let happen first what needs to happen. It sucks, but then again... we're not paying for the game...

Two things. One, the main changes need are not major in any way. They should be able to ship with 1.18 easily, but you and I both know that isn't going to happen.

Two, the fact that the game launched with this functionality broken (along with the payment system and lack of any travel systems whatsoever) is a testament as to just how badly this game was rushed out the door. These are basic game functions that visibly broken.

As for your last comment, not paying anything means nothing. The reason we're not paying is because SE is making a show of goodwill to try to retain my faith as a customer. That faith takes a beating the longer this sort of functionality remains broken.

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