Ideas for Healer Rework.

Disclaimer: The purpose is to give both the classes and the game itself a more creative avenue to prevent designs from being overly repetitive. Three things were kept in mind while designing this:

• Stuff has to be fun but easy and straightforward for the game’s AI to follow on Trusts. Were the trust NPCs updated to follow these skills. (Looking at you Goring Blade DoT Gr'aha.)
• Things have to escape the Healer\Shielder faux dichotomy
• The main concept of the classes need to be preserved
• These are ideas. Ideas Ideas. Its not considering systems in the game and it is very much an early kinda thing. Take what's said here with a pinch of Mountain Salt.

These Ideas mainly came from discussion with a friend.

White Mage
A straightforward healer whose primary focus is to control the flow of combat.

• Primarily regen healer
• Reactive healing
• Bursty damage

As the game’s only Lv 1 healer, White Mage should have beginner friendly tools. But that doesn’t mean the class should be devoid of all flavour like British Cuisine. It should have straightforward tools that don’t require the biggest of brains to figure out, but slowly build up on it.

Early Conjurer should keep Stone, Aero, Cure, Regen and Medica. However, the first change I’d make would be to turn Cure an instant-cast spell with a relatively high MP cost, but no cast time and reduced recast time. Then, the second change would be to make Cure 2 be a direct upgrade to Cure

• Freecure procs a free cast of a Cure spell when one’s used and that’s it.
• Medica would still remain as a cast spell.
• Presence of Mind remains.
• Aetherial Shift is a dumb button overall but it can stay I guess.
• Presence of Mind and its upgrade with Glare 4 stays.
• Benediction stays.
• Cure 3 should be a direct upgrade to Cure 2. Let’s keep stuff consistent, shall we?

Then come the first few changes. This WHM is made to be primarily a healer that relies on consistent regens and few punctual burst heals. WHM’s job crystal unlocks a passive trait called “Clear Mind” which boosts the passive HP recovery of the party, boosts HP recovery by Regen effects.

• All healers get access to their bubble early on. Asylum is given to WHMs at lv 30. It counts as an unremovable regen buff, and its cooldown is lower than other bubbles for obvious reasons.
• Medica 2 will remain separate from Medica 1, applying a regen.
• Divine Benison will no longer be a shield. It is now a regen on one person. A follow-up skill called Divine Blessing will remove the regen and heal the target for the remaining duration at once.
• Aquaveil takes any regen effects except for Asylum off of a target and converts them into shields. Naturally, this has a long cooldown.
• Tetragrammaton has a cure effect with a regen as well.
• Temperance increases healing magic potency by 20%. But rather than a reduction of damage taken, it restores the party’s MP. It has an effect that says any damaging skill from the WHM will proc an effect similar to Liturgy’s AoE healing. With an internal cooldown of 3s between pulses.
• Divine Caress will work as how Celestial Opposition currently works, applying yet another regen after a strong heal.
• New button: Refocus. It's Synastry.

The Afflatus bar would fill up depending on how much damage would be thrown out overall. As such, access to Afflatus Solace and Rapture would depend on dealing damage. This bar will slowly fill up outside of combat. Access to Afflatus Misery will remain the same, though it now recovers MP on use.

• To prevent overhealing, a secondary bar called the Zealous Gauge would fill up whenever a healing regen “overflows”. As in, whenever you cast a regen and 60% of it is used to heal someone but there’s a remainder, this second gauge would fill up. Idk if the game can detect overhealing. That's the main thing. It would likely have to be done differently than this.
• This gauge would allow uses of:
• Assize
• A single-target damaging spell called Calentune that heals the caster for the amount of damage dealt,
• Hydropic, which removes all regen effects on the party and deals damage based on how many were removed
• and Iscuria, which saps the entire bar to heal the party.

Plenary Indulgence is a buff that says the following healing action cast by the WHM will be applied to the whole party as a follow-up hit called Confession. So Tetra? Confession. Assize? Confession. Calentune? Confession. Thin Air returns to being a duration buff. White Mage gains Banish. Every 5 uses of Glare, Banish and then later Banish II, will proc to deal damage to an enemy. Further charging the Afflatus Gauge. (Think like Mage’s Ballad’s Procs)

Liturgy is removed. In its stead, WHM gains Afflatus Exorcism. A DoT version of Afflatus Misery that consumes a single Afflatus stack. Again, it’s meant to be very easy to play and reward people for dealing damage without being overly wasteful.

Astrologian

A complex healer with delayed mechanics and the ability to buff the party. Lowest damage, preparatory-type healing but juggles buffs.

• Does not heal straightforwardly
• LOADS of safety nets though

Astro… oh Astro… We all know this is the most overloaded of healers. And it comes from the fact that HSW’s design shoved so many tools onto their classes it made them jacks of all trades. Astro lost several identities over the years, but one thing made it consistent. Specifically the safety net healing. So why not lean into it?
So, what stays?

• Benefic 2 and Helios remain, as do their Aspected versions.
• Combust and Malefic remain in their boring glory
• Essential Dignity remains in all its scaling stacking glory.
• Gravity remains.
• Earthly Star remains.
• Macrocosmos remains.
• Collective Unconscious remains.

First things first! And the longest of the changes. There is no such thing as a Neutral Sect in Astrology. Sorry to burst that particular bubble. Instead AST gets two stances back, but not as how they worked before.
Diurnal Sect grants the additional effects on Aspected Benefic and Helios applies a barrier as usual.
Nocturnal Sect makes Malefic and Gravity actions give a small shield that’s additive whenever used.

This is reflected in the DRAW button. How so? Well… think of the current draw system. Astral and Umbral, right? BORING. Let’s make it Diurnal Draw and Nocturnal Draw, and until the button is pressed again they take those stances. Celestial Opposition is a party-wide heal in Diurnal with a regen on it or a party-wide heal with a shield in Nocturnal. Exaltation works as normal during Diurnal. It becomes Celestial Intersection in Nocturnal, healing when the barrier breaks. Cards and such we're still discussing....

• Horoscope remains with a twist. It stays, but gives the AST a buff to Helios actions that makes them instant cast OGCDs, turning them into Helios Conjunction. Horoscope Helios is procced off of it. Horoscope overall lasts longer.
• Synastry is removed, as it’s given to WHM. AST rarely used it anyway and WHM has a lot better uses for a Synastry skill than "delayed healer" AST.
• Sun Sign is its own skill.
• Minor Arcana is removed. In its stead, Lord of Crowns becomes a damaging action that applies a DoT on the enemy, and Lady of Crowns is a healing OGCD that applies a regen on the party. Or just remove them.

These are mainly my friend's idea. My thought is that the Diurnal and Nocturnal aspects should be like Black Stance / White Stance from RDM in PVP.
You're by default in Diurnal, and then can use 'Nocturnal' to switch to the other. And Vice-Versa

Sage
A healer that combines combat tools with healing tools. Damage and healing feed off of one another.

• Damage is gauged off of offensive skills
• Reverse Macrocosmos
• Has Bloodwhetting. You heard me.

SGE loses its shield healer design. Sorry, that's Scholar's job, stop being "SCH but better", be original for once. Instead it becomes more offensive-focused and derives its heal from there.

• Diagnosis is a simple heal spell. Prognosis is a simple AoE healing spell. Nothing about them changes.
• However, their Eukrasian versions are removed.
• Eukrasia from here on is purely offensive.

First things first, let’s buff Kardia a bit. Every spell you use to deal damage with actually contributes to healing, and Soteria is there to make sure the healing lands.

• Soteria grants +1 Addersgall when cast.
• Since shields no longer exist, Pepsis gets changed. Rather than removing things, it applies Pepsis to the party, and they all share in on Kardia for the next few casts at a reduced potency. (2 or 3 times.)
• Similarly, since there are no shields around, Toxikon becomes a viable movement tool with stacks uncoupled from shields. (Like in PVP)
• A new action called Choler procs Kardia heals based on both the target and the Sage’s GCDs.
• A new action called Sanguis procs damage based on Kardia procs.

Holos retains its shield, but now becomes Shake it Off. Remove that broken-ass button from WAR.
For the rest, SGE remains mostly the same, relying on Addersgall to heal besides proc-ing Kardia.
It does however lose Haima and Panhaima to SCH! Oh don't worry... It's meant to be a Kardia healer. How so?

SGE gains more damaging options to make up for it:

• Kathreptis - What it says on the tin, but less broken. It is a shield, but until it breaks, it reflects damage back to the enemy.
• Pharmakon - Bloodwhetting. I am serious here. And yes it stacks with Choler.
• Panacaea - The above… but party-wide.
• Pentahumor – Continuous laser beam AoE for 10s that deals damage to anything caught inside during the duration, that also pulsates a heal on the party. Would be an initial cast followed by a 10s 'Zone' similar to their PVP LB.
• Philosophia remains as the buff to heals and granting the party Kardia, but rather than it being a 20s button, it’s a toggleable stance. The toggle consumes a bar that is filled up by successive hits of damaging spells. Soteria and Choler are also applied to the party when used during Philosophia.

Scholar

A healer that makes use of fairy familiars and seeks to maximise damage dealt. High end damage, shield healing and support.

• Primarily shield healing
• Makes use of terrain via fairy pets
• DoT damage

“Don’tcha wish your Scholar was hot like Sage? Don’tchaaa”
But the fairy sure does! That’s why we’re bringing in a few fairies up. I personally find Scholar to be pulled in three different directions. Aetherflow (read, Sage but worse), Fairy (read, Summoner but worse) or normal skill healer (read: any healer, but a lot worse).

Let’s make Scholar consistent for once, yes?
Sooo.... First things first, yes? Aetherflow, you’re fired. Eos, you’re promoted. Shields…
…

https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...w4o/giphy.webp

• Broil stays, Biolysis stays.
• Adloquium remains the same, with its chance to crit giving people Galvanize.
• Succor works as normal.
• And pretty much nothing else stays because it’s all getting changed!

First, the fairies!
Upon changing to SCH, their innate passive is “Dawnservant”, which instantly summons Eos.
Eos stays on the field and acts as a supportive unit. Eos cannot be unsummoned.
Eos has access to the following skills:

• Embrace: Auto-Heals the party member with the lowest HP.
• Whispering Dawn: Changes the following 5 Embrace casts to be party-wide.
• Sit: Places Eos where the SCH is. If the SCH moves away from her Sit range, she returns to following the SCH and is not unsummoned.
• Heel: Has Eos follow the SCH around. Replaces Sit.

You want a healbot? Here, have a healbot. It'll have a bit better use every 2 minutes anyway. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Flying Fairy
Scholar gets summons now, similar to Summoner. These are a one-use only that enable further skills. Specifically, there are two buttons that change whenever a Fairy is used, overwriting the actions:

• Fey Echelon
• Fey Schiltron

Three additional actions called Gonfalon will be unlocked and can be used outside the fairy’s influence.

Summon Selene:
The Scholar summons the Selene fairy who casts Indomitable Moon on the party, casting a shield on them with a burst of light, dematerializing soon after. The SCH gains the Lunar Aura, which unlocks the following skills, all cast from the perspective of the SCH:

• Lunar Echelon: A 4-stack attack similar to Titan, which applies a Lunar Echelon shield on the party with each cast. The shield will be lengthened with each cast if they haven’t broken. It does not heal them while the shields are applied.
• Lunar Schiltron: Applies a small Lunar Schiltron shield to a single target. It does not heal them while the shield is applied.
• Lunar Gonfalon becomes Standard of the Moon: A banner is dropped on the floor for 10s. The banner will tether to people and cast a shield on them. It does not heal them while the shield is applied. If the shield breaks while Standard of the Moon is still present, the banner will recast the shield as long as the party member is within reach. Standard of the Moon buffs the party’s Critical Hit rate when dropped.

Summon Hemera
The Scholar summons the Hemera fairy who casts Daybreak on the party, healing them with a burst of light, dematerializing soon after. The SCH gains the Daylight Aura, which unlocks the following skills, all cast from the perspective of the SCH:

• Solar Echelon: A 4-stack attack similar to Titan, which applies a shield on the tank. Each hit does heal the tank. Similar to Lunar Echelon, the shield is lenghtened with each cast if it wasn’t broken.
• Solar Schiltron: Applies a regen on a single target
• Solar Gonfalon becomes Standard of the Sun: A banner is dropped on the floor for 10s. The banner will pulsate a regen for that duration to anyone within range. Standard of the Sun buffs the party’s Direct Hit rate when dropped.

Summon Astraea
The Scholar summons the Astraea fairy who casts Falling Star on the party. It reduces damage taken by the party, storing a portion of the damage mitigated for 10s, dematerializing soon after. This damage is being stored into Starry Gonfalon. The SCH gains the Starlight Aura, which unlocks the following skills, all cast from the perspective of the SCH:

• Starry Echelon: A single long cast similar to Ifrit. Upon being cast, the SCH applies Miasma to all enemies surrounding them. Starry Echelon applies Energy Syphon on SCH. Energy Syphon’s effect lasts 10s and during this duration, any Broil spell cast will heal the party member with the highest aggro on the target hit by Broil.
• Starry Schiltron: Applies Energy Drain on the party, converting a portion of damage they deal into HP.
• Starry Gonfalon becomes Standard of the Skies: A banner is dropped on the floor for 10s. A burst of damage emanates from the banner, dealing a portion of the damage stored by Falling Star to all enemies around it. It reduces the defences of all aggroed enemies when dropped.

• Physick is wholly removed. This may trigger some people, but don’t worry. Have you seen the new fairies?
• Concitation is an instant-cast OGCD, similar to how Holos is now. Stacks with Adloquium.
• The SCH has access to Consolation from the bloody start. Hallelloo. 2 charges.
• Lustrate has 3 stacks. No cost, just cooldown.
• Indom has no cost, just cooldown.
• Sacred Soil has no cost, just cooldown.
• Excogitation has no cost, just cooldown.
• Fey Blessing has no cost, is now a SCH action called Auxilliary Tactics.
• Fairy Gauge went to the store to get milk and won't be coming back.

New SCH actions:

• Retaliation: Remember Eye for an Eye? That’s pretty much it. For those who don’t know, imagine Arm’s Length, but instead of applying Slow it applies Reprisal.
• Contravallation: Haima.
• Convalescence: Since the fairy’s not being eaten for Aetherflow, we’re putting the effects of Dissipation here.
• Dissipation: Reworked into a buff on the party that takes the next hit they take and slowly spreads it out as a DoT instead.
• Phaetonic Hymn: Aetherpact tethering the Scholar to the party member. It has no cost, just a cooldown.
• Hyperion Hymn: Lilybell.
• Helionic Hymn: A fairy that applies damage reduction and a growing shield to people around it. Basically a second Sacred Soil but without regens.

Reworked Skills! Because good lord, stop fighting your own designs, Scholar!

• Recitation works on both Excog, Adlo and now also Manifestation and Contravallation.
• Deployment Tactics now works with Manifestation, Contravallation and Retaliation.
• Emergency Tactics does not work with Contravallation.

Seraph of War
The Scholar merges with Eos periodically once all Banners were unlocked, typically at the 2m window.

• The Seraph explodes with damage upon transforming.
• All healing will be increased.
• During this duration, Adloquium and Succor are buffed to Manifestation and Accession.
• The SCH continuously throws out Embrace passively. Will also normally execute Whispering Dawn. However, they will have the Seraph's upgrade which applies a small shield on every Embrace cast.
• Emergency Tactics becomes a toggle, turning all cast Adlos\Succors into heals until switched off.
• Chain Stratagem unlocks the following damaging combo on its own button:
• Baneful Logistic (deals damage),
• Festering Tactic (applies a poison),
• Biological Warfare (casts old Shadow Flare, applying a puddle of poison underneath the target).

I do understand that a lot of these ideas are basically like... Completely flipping the ideas of classes on their heads and taking what is the norm at the moment and kinda telling it to go sit in the corner.
And that some of these are complex and really, these ideas are still being discussed, etc.
But I wanted to know what folks would think if this was a possibility. almost like a 'we could dream' kinda thing.

Opinions welcome. The usual.

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Originally Posted by Karowolus

White Mage

• Tetragrammaton has a cure effect with a regen as well.

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I would remove one row of random buttons as a start. Then add some cool-looking stuff. For dungeons something for trash packs. For bosses a button to increase self-survivability and/or self-death protection. Next, we would need some skill/reward skills - maybe very short duration dot that if present on boss/mob when he casts a damaging ability the healer get some charges as a reward and can use them on cool abilities - from super heals to stronger attacks (machine gun glare! carpet bombing trash packs). Existing dots could just get canned. Healer damage should go from consistent to bursts through the skill/reward system so healing isn't a direct block for dealing damage.

Cure I should switch to Cure II and no Freecure. Cure III with cleave heal is kind of unique enough to be its own thing. Could have additional shield/DR on stacked players maybe?

Very complex. I can appreciate the write up and effort that went into it so a +1 to all posts.

Thing is kinda that healer is *mostly* okay, and for game development and game design there is a "KISS" approach: Keep It Simple and Stupid.
Completely overhauling jobs is not something that has ever been done, and likely will not happen. This is a GREAT what-if scenario, but I don't have high hopes for any of this actually even being considered because it's just way too much work and doesn't address why healers are 'optional' in the first place, and that reason is: tanks have too much sustain for themselves AND party.

What I would instead recommend is proposing ideas for an immediate win™ scenario.

For example:
- Removing all healing and shielding abilities of tanks. They can only mitigate and reduce damage for themselves and party as a tank should, but not heal. Instead, what they should do is increase their healing received, or get bigger mitigations. But for real, remove all of the heals and barriers that tanks can apply to themselves or partymembers. This is a healer's job and it shouldn't overlap. Period.
- All healers should get a damage optimization if there are less heals to do:

WHM: overcapping on lillies = feeding the Blood Lily.
SCH: Energy Drain is great as it is. I would maybe add in a combo, similar to SMN's Fester/Necrotize that is a small potency oGCD that gets added after using Energy Drain. Maybe also can spread Biolysis DOT?
SGE: Toxikon gets more potency from 360 to 420, making it a DPS gain even on single target and you WANT to use these in bursts. Addersgall overcap = automatic Addersting stack if possible. Possibly Rhizomata can get an additional proc that if used on full Addersgall stacks, it also refills ALL Addersting.
AST: gets Redraw ability back with a 60 second cooldown, but only applies for Minor Arcana. Can change Lady of Crowns into Lord of Crowns and vice versa. Redrawing the minor Arcana increases its potency by 50%. (redrawn Lady into Lord = 600 Potency damage. Redrawn Lord into Lady = 600 potency AOE heal). Also helps with the first raid burst right now I think, which is always kinda forced to be a Lady.

I'm not particularly good at SCH but I do love that idea of SCH, leans much closer to it's lore than current SCH does. As for WHM, as the previous poster said Cure 3 is great as is and to sacrifice it's functionality I'd want to see something like Medica 1 getting a buff to serve it's role as a large aoe heal to actually be viable in the face of Medica 2's regen. Really Medica 1 should get a buff anyway given the amount of added potency Medica 2 has in regen but that's another thing.

Also, might I add, attacking WAR like that is very brave of you.

In regards to Cure III, I think a slight misunderstanding is present.

The idea of Cure would basically have it be a bit like 'Lemme eat your MP' Heal. And that it would evolve. So you have Cure I, then Cure II with Freecure being a 'MP Efficiency for Repetitive Heals', and Cure III would retain it's AoE nature.

To give it a like... 'Current Example' It would be like.. If Cure III in this situation was like a 3000 MP Cost Heal, instant cast and reduced GCD for it. It wouldn't be your 'Primary Healing Tool' because you'd have more of an incentive to manage the rest of your resources. Especially with the concept of this new WHM being 'Regens are Strong, but let me play with them'

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Originally Posted by Chiru_Kai

- Removing all healing and shielding abilities of tanks. They can only mitigate and reduce damage for themselves and party as a tank should, but not heal. Instead, what they should do is increase their healing received, or get bigger mitigations. But for real, remove all of the heals and barriers that tanks can apply to themselves or partymembers. This is a healer's job and it shouldn't overlap. Period.

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Then allow me to permablock bad healers (and tanks) I get in DF. There would be little reason to play tank then and healer would be the only deciding role.

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Originally Posted by Chiru_Kai

All healers should get a damage optimization if there are less heals to do:

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So it would become BIS to not heal as much as possible and high end content would be balanced around it.

In our discussions, our friend group mainly noted how WHM was almost leaning into the 'Druid' idea and interacting more with Regens. So instead of each healer having their 'Pure / Barrier' Healer identities, they would have their own unique identities and strengths that have a degree of overlap. But they still stand on their own pedestals as being able to do this one job really well.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

Then allow me to permablock bad healers (and tanks) I get in DF. There would be little reason to play tank then and healer would be the only deciding role.

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Sometimes I feel like I'm in a minority of healers who actually enjoys the stress of healing tanks in normal content who don't seem to know what mits are.

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So it would become BIS to not heal as much as possible and high end content would be balanced around it.

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And this... This is already the case and what the devs do, hence the week 1/2 healerless clears. I've seen it said that the devs do playtest all the content they put in the game, if that's true then they know just how much healing is/n't required in every duty at the time of introduction. Therefore the only conclusions are that the devs know that the healing requirements are as low as they are and intend that healers should do as little healing as possible (even going so far as to have other party members do it for them with the ever increasing healing kits on non-healer jobs) or they're terrible healers who actually believe that healers do need to spend entire duties focused on healing.

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

Sometimes I feel like I'm in a minority of healers who actually enjoys the stress of healing tanks in normal content who don't seem to know what mits are.



And this... This is already the case and what the devs do, hence the week 1/2 healerless clears. I've seen it said that the devs do playtest all the content they put in the game, if that's true then they know just how much healing is/n't required in every duty at the time of introduction. Therefore the only conclusions are that the devs know that the healing requirements are as low as they are and intend that healers should do as little healing as possible (even going so far as to have other party members do it for them with the ever increasing healing kits on non-healer jobs) or they're terrible healers who actually believe that healers do need to spend entire duties focused on healing.

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Not alone I sometimes even ask my tanks to not use defensive cooldowns for shits and giggles.

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

Sometimes I feel like I'm in a minority of healers who actually enjoys the stress of healing tanks in normal content who don't seem to know what mits are.



And this... This is already the case and what the devs do, hence the week 1/2 healerless clears. I've seen it said that the devs do playtest all the content they put in the game, if that's true then they know just how much healing is/n't required in every duty at the time of introduction. Therefore the only conclusions are that the devs know that the healing requirements are as low as they are and intend that healers should do as little healing as possible (even going so far as to have other party members do it for them with the ever increasing healing kits on non-healer jobs) or they're terrible healers who actually believe that healers do need to spend entire duties focused on healing.

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they had said they re-allocated their healer tester because they "got too good"

so I am not sure how much effort whomever they have that "playtests" healers... if they do at all.

which leads me to the suspicion that the healing requirements are low.. because the devs themselves dont use them or play them in testing.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

they had said they re-allocated their healer tester because they "got too good"

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I've read this on the forum too, though I've not seen a source, if it's true then it's utterly insane yet also entirely believable given the state of healing at the moment.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

Then allow me to permablock bad healers (and tanks) I get in DF. There would be little reason to play tank then and healer would be the only deciding role.


So it would become BIS to not heal as much as possible and high end content would be balanced around it.

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As opposed to right now where the healer is irrelevant and the tank is the only deciding role but also doesn’t care about the other roles because they are immortal anyway

How is that better balance

[QUOTE=Karowolus;6583169]Sage[Quote]

Channeled casts are not why I play SGE, it's the mobility. The channeled spells would hurt the class as it stands.

It needs to be about the same mobility. What I would like is something complex to get right in a very limited time that has a huge reward. I would also love to convert blue heal charges to red dps charges.

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SGE loses its shield healer design. Sorry, that's Scholar's job, stop being "SCH but better", be original for once. Instead it becomes more offensive-focused and derives its heal from there.

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No, Keep SGE the shield and amp them up, let the SCH do pure pet healing. That's far more in keeping with their job as a pet class.

SCH has been a heal amp shield healers for 4 times as long as SGE has existed as a class. Why don’t we give SGE an actual identity rather than SCH but worse then give all of SCH’s good ideas to SGE pretending like they were SGE’s from the start

Also OP not sure what your beef against SCH is considering you both put it’s a better shield healer than SCH in SGE’s description and SCH is just a terrible healer in general in SCH’s design, neither of those statements are true

Not really a fan of the sanitisation of SCH here, I don't much fancy a SMN clone as I already find SMN dreadfully boring.

So many people tend to complain about SCH's kit fighting itself, but I find that to be part of the charm. It feels very much like a battle tactician that will use all resources at hand for a favourable result. Making the job all about fairies would ruin the feel of the job for me.

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

I've read this on the forum too, though I've not seen a source, if it's true then it's utterly insane yet also entirely believable given the state of healing at the moment.

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https://www.famitsu.com/news/202203/31256409.html

There you go. The infamous "healer got too good so a replacement was requested"-interview. Sometime in 6.1 AFAIR. And by 'too good', they mean "dabbled into EX trials".

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

As opposed to right now where the healer is irrelevant and the tank is the only deciding role but also doesn’t care about the other roles because they are immortal anyway

How is that better balance

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Right now if all of your party isn't a Moogle the healer is a glare bot. If someone, especially the tank has problems you are a heal bot. The game accepts a wide range of skills and knowledge of the game when you do content in DF - that's why people don't really care if someone isn't a god there. Due to this current trinity design is rather frozen and the game isn't sweaty.

If you make jobs more reliant on healers then suddenly you only want good healers or it will be a slog. At some threshold, people will start to care and naming/shaming will begin, kicks, past that people will move to PF and invite people they know or whose logs they can check... Welcome to WoW RIO/M+ score :)

The only avenue for healers to change is to move their DPS from constant spamming into short bursts and expand upon that with skill/reward button combos that look and feel cool while removing a row of old dead-end heals. And add more fun for dungeons and not just "balance around savage and ultimate".

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Originally Posted by sharknado

Right now if all of your party isn't a Moogle the healer is a glare bot. If someone, especially the tank has problems you are a heal bot. The game accepts a wide range of skills and knowledge of the game when you do content in DF - that's why people don't really care if someone isn't a god there. Due to this current trinity design is rather frozen and the game isn't sweaty.

If you make jobs more reliant on healers then suddenly you only want good healers or it will be a slog. At some threshold, people will start to care and naming/shaming will begin, kicks, past that people will move to PF and invite people they know or whose logs they can check... Welcome to WoW RIO/M+ score :)

The only avenue for healers to change is to move their DPS from constant spamming into short bursts and expand upon that with skill/reward button combos that look and feel cool while removing a row of old dead-end heals. And add more fun for dungeons and not just "balance around savage and ultimate".

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Ah I see we are back to “if we do literally anything that might make healers not totally redundant in casual content the entire playerbase will rip themselves apart and it’ll be like mythic wow”, last week it was tanks will start start insta abandoning duties.

Like I genuinely have no idea why you think partially reverting the game to a trinity state before the two most recent expansions will cause the entire game to blow up. Healer weren’t redundant and tanks immortal gods for 4 expansions and somehow the game didn’t come crashing down, why are you so convinced of this apocalypse

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202203/31256409.html

There you go. The infamous "healer got too good so a replacement was requested"-interview. Sometime in 6.1 AFAIR. And by 'too good', they mean "dabbled into EX trials".

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Thanks, that really is mad.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Channeled casts are not why I play SGE, it's the mobility. The channeled spells would hurt the class as it stands.

It needs to be about the same mobility. What I would like is something complex to get right in a very limited time that has a huge reward. I would also love to convert blue heal charges to red dps charges.



No, Keep SGE the shield and amp them up, let the SCH do pure pet healing. That's far more in keeping with their job as a pet class.

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Hi;

I'll adjust the wording, as I think this is a comment on Pentahumour. The 10s Beam would be something akin almost to their PVP LB, where it leaves a residual zone after the initial cast.

A lot of these ideas aren't really my own. They're my friend's who did a majority of putting all of this together. I just kinda sanitized it to see how the Forums reacted. I do think that either job could go the 'Main Shield Healer' route. Just depends on wholly on which job you would put the main strength on. I kinda like the idea of SGE having the quirky shields with different effects. Right now, a lot of the general sentiment among my friend group, and from what I've also seen other players has generally been that tanks have too much in regards to healing capability, again. Non-Healer clear of M4S on week 2...

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

SCH has been a heal amp shield healers for 4 times as long as SGE has existed as a class. Why don’t we give SGE an actual identity rather than SCH but worse then give all of SCH’s good ideas to SGE pretending like they were SGE’s from the start

Also OP not sure what your beef against SCH is considering you both put it’s a better shield healer than SCH in SGE’s description and SCH is just a terrible healer in general in SCH’s design, neither of those statements are true

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I mean, overall the idea behind changing SGE was to make it have it's own identity with quirky shields with additional effects. Whilst frontloading it's healing to Kardia and the additional sources of Kardia healing.
This rework would make is to that you could play both classes together without stepping on eachother's toes because you accidentally overwrote the other's shields.

It took SE years to fix spell clipping in summons in general. And of the healers. Scholar is the one with the most Jank. Whilst a degree of Jank is OK. The fact that we have skills that don't interact with eachother that should needs to be corrected.

A lot of these ideas are concepts and are pretty much an early version. And are the result of a discussion. I just wanted to share it because I felt it was genuinely a good set of reworks that stuck to the job's lore. I do understand that people are probably going to see the bashing on scholar as 'You don't like Scholar'. As someone who plays scholar as their main healer. Right now? It has a janky feeling that I can't put my finger on and I don't feel like I'm incentivized to use the new tools given to me. The general ideas of each were intended to be:

• WHM: Regens, straightforward healing
• AST: Cool takes on straightforward healing and safety nets
• SGE: Damage-based healing
• SCH: Shield Healing and Rotational healing

I fully welcome criticism of these concepts. And these concepts are all very much having differing ideas tossed about.

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Originally Posted by Karowolus

I mean, overall the idea behind changing SGE was to make it have it's own identity with quirky shields with additional effects. Whilst frontloading it's healing to Kardia and the additional sources of Kardia healing.
This rework would make is to that you could play both classes together without stepping on eachother's toes because you accidentally overwrote the other's shields.

It took SE years to fix spell clipping in summons in general. And of the healers. Scholar is the one with the most Jank. Whilst a degree of Jank is OK. The fact that we have skills that don't interact with eachother that should needs to be corrected.

A lot of these ideas are concepts and are pretty much an early version. And are the result of a discussion. I just wanted to share it because I felt it was genuinely a good set of reworks that stuck to the job's lore. I do understand that people are probably going to see the bashing on scholar as 'You don't like Scholar'. As someone who plays scholar as their main healer. Right now? It has a janky feeling that I can't put my finger on and I don't feel like I'm incentivized to use the new tools given to me. The general ideas of each were intended to be:

• WHM: Regens, straightforward healing
• AST: Cool takes on straightforward healing and safety nets
• SGE: Damage-based healing
• SCH: Shield Healing and Rotational healing

I fully welcome criticism of these concepts. And these concepts are all very much having differing ideas tossed about.

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When you say jank what are you referring to?

Energy drain disincentivising healing?
Skills locking out other skills?
A lack of a cohesive “type” of healing?
Visual choices?

It’s interesting to me because in my opinion SCH’s dyssynergy is a form of synergy. The skills interact specifically because they don’t interact. You can’t just randomly pivot on a whim because you picked the wrong strategy, you need to commit to the healing choices you make and that leads to you planning them better. I think you should be able to freely pivot if you make a healing mistake, it’s an optimisation pathway modern healers sorely lack. Energy drain is an extension of this

Visual design not being cohesive for a while is a totally fair criticism though

The SCH changes I think would be better done if given to a new class. Too much of the changes wouldn’t make sense.

Hasn’t Aetherflow healing been the staple/core mechanic for Scholars? I mean, when you choose the SCH plate for portraits, you get a literal Aetherflow icon on the picture (not a DoT icon lol). I feel like completely removing that mechanic would be like taking Astrologian’s cards or Black Mage’s fire spells.

Where do the extra fairies come from when only two exist (except when they’re one)? Not only that but they all seem to do more or less the same thing besides two having some minor healing and two having dps. That’s not to mention (because I’ll be eaten by the SCH wolves), a ‘DPS’ fairy simply won’t work, because unfortunately it won’t ever be a choice. Maybe if you’re doing like, ultimate, but otherwise it’d be ‘use your dps fairy or suffer the consequences’, not ‘make a tactical decision based on the context’, so the healing ones may as well not exist.

You’ve also removed Scholar’s sole means of gcd aoe healing (Concitation) which I imagine would cause a range of problems (especially in lower levels). I don’t really understand why either. What’s the purpose of making Concitation an oGCD? Having it stack with Adloquium does sound hilariously broken though lol (imagine putting Concitation shields over a Deployed Adloquium).

Additionally why do we need to cannibalise skills from other healers? There isn’t any need for Scholar to have Lilybell or Haima when Seraph is effectually the same thing. Likewise is there a need for it to steal Convalescence from 2.0 tanks when Protraction does functionally the exact same thing (except also provides effective mitigation with max HP boost).

I don’t understand locking a damage combo behind Chain Stratagem either because then you have a damage combo with 2 minute cool-down. If they automatically replace it with no cool-down, couldn’t you potentially lock yourself out of using Chain if you used Seraph of War while it was off-cool-down?

Lastly frankly I’m already going to put on an international SCH watchlist for saying I don’t believe in dps fairies, but I don’t think Physick should be deleted. I’d rather see it do something that actually gave it some value, like having it restore more HP to a target with Adloquium to incentivise using it for triage (which doesn’t exists in ffxiv lol). Or making it increase the potency of Embrace on the target (lower healing potency as necessary)

Again I think a ‘new healer’ with this kind of design would be cool, but too much of it wouldn’t really make sense with how Scholar works now.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Like I genuinely have no idea why you think partially reverting the game to a trinity state before the two most recent expansions will cause the entire game to blow up. Healer weren’t redundant and tanks immortal gods for 4 expansions and somehow the game didn’t come crashing down, why are you so convinced of this apocalypse

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Well, it's their problem. I just bet we would have a screenshot thread of people going salty just because "now" there are problems with the content and before there weren't. We are already used to convenience.

And I'm not sure purely having more healing to do would make the gameplay fun. Like Cure I / II / III aren't Fell Cleave, Primal Rend, and Primal Ruination vibe-wise. Same with dot-111111-dot.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

Well, it's their problem. I just bet we would have a screenshot thread of people going salty just because "now" there are problems with the content and before there weren't. We are already used to convenience.

And I'm not sure purely having more healing to do would make the gameplay fun. Like Cure I / II / III aren't Fell Cleave, Primal Rend, and Primal Ruination vibe-wise. Same with dot-111111-dot.

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Yeah instead we currently have threads about the tank holding the party hostage that’s soooooooo much better balance isn’t it. I love the party being so afraid to rely on me that instead we all have to rely on the benevolence of the tank if we die

And I genuinely say this in the nicest way possible, if your idea of healing is “let the tank do half my job for me so I can relax and not be stressed” you are exactly who they shouldn’t be designing jobs around. Healing is the core tenant of the healers. Why are you playing healers if you don’t think healing more than the paltry healing we currently do won’t make your experience better

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Originally Posted by Aravell

So many people tend to complain about SCH's kit fighting itself, but I find that to be part of the charm.

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When Energy Drain's used the intended way (spending leftover flows shortly before aetherflow comes off cooldown) it rewards good healing with a little bit of bonus damage and it feels great.

I think too many people have been on the receiving end of a SCH who spends all their flows on it. They really shouldn't be taking away options from a job in an attempt to eliminate bad players though

...well, currently intended? It used to be where Aetherflow's mp recovery was in ShB and also acted to make up for dps lost from having to use RuinII for movement/weaving, which I thought made the kit fit together really well

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Yeah instead we currently have threads about the tank holding the party hostage that’s soooooooo much better balance isn’t it. I love the party being so afraid to rely on me that instead we all have to rely on the benevolence of the tank if we die

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So you want to change it from tank to healer? So if a healer makes a mistake in 91-100 content and dies it's a mandatory wipe? You aren't in every party and your skills aren't representative of what's possible in DF.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

you are exactly who they shouldn’t be designing jobs around. Healing is the core tenant of the healers. Why are you playing healers if you don’t think healing more than the paltry healing we currently do won’t make your experience better

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In this game healers deal damage and SE expects healer to glare bot. I didn't made the rule and I'm not responsible with job design of this game. I also tend to play whatever job is in "need".

If YoshiP won't go out during Live Letter saying they are shifting their job design, content philosophy from what they have now you won't get anything you want. If they say they are fine with current direction then the only thing we could bargain are better buttons that look and feel better to play.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

So you want to change it from tank to healer? So if a healer makes a mistake in 91-100 content and dies it's a mandatory wipe? You aren't in every party and your skills aren't representative of what's possible in DF.



In this game healers deal damage and SE expects healer to glare bot. I didn't made the rule and I'm not responsible with job design of this game. I also tend to play whatever job is in "need".

If YoshiP won't go out during Live Letter they are shifting their job design, content philosophy from what they have now you won't get anything you want. If they say they are fine with current direction then the only thing we could bargain are better buttons that look and feel better to play.

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Are you physically capable of holding an argument that doesn’t just immediately devolve into literally the most intense hyperbole that the situation can possibly call for?

Not having the tank do the entirety of the healers job for them while also have 600% eHP and doing more damage would not immediately devolve into the healer dying being a mandatory wipe because for the 19274029510682859069268386th time your useless hyperbole is disproven by the fact that we used to have this and the game didn’t come crashing down around us.

Yes thank you I know how healer design works, I’m saying if the prospect of healing more (regardless of if it’ll be introduced or not) doesn’t excite you then why would you ever play a healer. A healer using broil constantly is playing to how the game is designed, a healer who intentionally wants to barely heal and offload half the responsibility to the tank isn’t a healer. Improvement of the DPS rotation is completely exogenous to this

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Not having the tank do the entirety of the healers job for them while also have 600% eHP and doing more damage would not immediately devolve into the healer dying being a mandatory wipe because for the 19274029510682859069268386th time your useless hyperbole is disproven by the fact that we used to have this and the game didn’t come crashing down around us.

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They spent entirety of Endwalker making the game compatible with single player FF players to scared of multiplayer games... allegedly. They changed how healing works since few expansions and now it's expected DRK will get more self-healing to bring it inline with other tanks rather than SE going through jobs, existing and future content and ripping self-heal from tanks. The game had a lot of things but now they are gone and we have no info that it's going to change by 360 in 2 years at 8.0.

If you want to influence their decision don't play a healer and convince others not to (#healerstrike) or unsubscribe. If you are paying and complaining they don't care because they already have your money and they know you are addicted to this game. Blizzard had the same attitude until people actually quit in Shandowlands which tanked their income during that expansion, under-performend Dragonflight preorders and post-launch even with good reception of the expansion. Lack of cash led them to provide what players wanted and trying out more new things to bring new and old players into the game. We got copy-pasta templated expansion for the 3rd time with zero innovation for the next 10 years.

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Originally Posted by Connor

A valid and Interesting point!

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I can definitely understand that notion. But I think some misunderstanding is present in this.

The different fairies are more of a 'Bard Song' than a fairy. Eos is there like how your Carbuncle is there as SMN, and is summoned / dismissed as you summon these other fairies.

Honestly, I think this could work if SE wanted to make a dedicated rotation healer. Or even a 'totem master' type Healer.
The plan would kinda be at least in my understanding of how my friend had worded it was that your Summon Seraph would kinda turn into a 'Radiant Finale' of sorts.

I can give you better rework Idea and not even trolling....how about changes that the community stop crying about. Seriously when healer had stuff to do you all cried it was to busy. Forum so confused I swear its no wonder ppl still stuck on M1s in party finder...

How about viper change cause ppl couldn't be bothered to maintain dots. Maybe stop being lazy first and actually learn to ply before suggesting changes you would later regrett

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Originally Posted by Karowolus

I can definitely understand that notion. But I think some misunderstanding is present in this.

The different fairies are more of a 'Bard Song' than a fairy. Eos is there like how your Carbuncle is there as SMN, and is summoned / dismissed as you summon these other fairies.

Honestly, I think this could work if SE wanted to make a dedicated rotation healer. Or even a 'totem master' type Healer.
The plan would kinda be at least in my understanding of how my friend had worded it was that your Summon Seraph would kinda turn into a 'Radiant Finale' of sorts.

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I think I get it now. So like rotating between the fairies then culminating in a ‘something’ after you’ve been through each one? I still think it’d be a really cool concept for another healer.

Like a Geomancer type class that uses totems to create field effects for healing/damage effects, with the ‘terrain’ changing their abilities in some way. They could like, detonate the totems for burst healing or damage or have them pulse regens/dot for sustained healing/damage. Then after using a certain combination or amount of totems or w/e you could get a ‘super totem’ which gives access to an Afflatus Misery style burst attack. Maybe it could have additional effects like reducing damage taken/ increasing damage dealt to anyone in the area

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

I can give you better rework Idea and not even trolling....how about changes that the community stop crying about. Seriously when healer had stuff to do you all cried it was to busy. Forum so confused I swear its no wonder ppl still stuck on M1s in party finder...

How about viper change cause ppl couldn't be bothered to maintain dots. Maybe stop being lazy first and actually learn to ply before suggesting changes you would later regrett

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All these are are ideas that would be cool in design and in concept and that fit the lore of the classes.

This isn't a 'Change the job plz squeenix' thread because we know they wouldn't because they cater to the majority. As previously mentioned in the thread, they decided to test healers as if it were a lower skill player, playing them and actually changed their tester purely because they had done some extreme trials. This thread itself is just to share a fun concept.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I think I get it now. So like rotating between the fairies then culminating in a ‘something’ after you’ve been through each one? I still think it’d be a really cool concept for another healer.

Like a Geomancer type class that uses totems to create field effects for healing/damage effects, with the ‘terrain’ changing their abilities in some way. They could like, detonate the totems for burst healing or damage or have them pulse regens/dot for sustained healing/damage. Then after using a certain combination or amount of totems or w/e you could get a ‘super totem’ which gives access to an Afflatus Misery style burst attack. Maybe it could have additional effects like reducing damage taken/ increasing damage dealt to anyone in the area

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Oooh, Geomancer as a healer could be fun... The redesign to SCH was to have them play with areas and almost designate tactical areas in raids with their 'Banners'. I do think we could lean more into the idea of alternate means of damage mitigation at some point, like turning a big burst of damage into a DoT. But it would be tricky to balance I imagine.