Released a broken Eureka

Been watching my cousin play it and he's been having a hard time getting into a party and here is what i have noticed.

1. he's level 4 he tries to get into a party for low levels can't hasn't had luck yet he's stuck soloing level 1-3's

2. If he wants to be a part of a train party he gets thrown under bus for higher levels no there is no way to gain anything.

3. you can follow the trains but ultimately die and if a person is nice they will raise you up if not you have to HP and even if so you are too weak to hurt the monster gaining less exp.

Why release something that doesn't benefit everyone but a specific crowd of people?

I must say this turns me off about doing it.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Been watching my cousin play it and he's been having a hard time getting into a party and here is what i have noticed.

1. he's level 4 he tries to get into a party for low levels can't hasn't had luck yet he's stuck soloing level 1-3's

2. If he wants to be a part of a train party he gets thrown under bus for higher levels no there is no way to gain anything.

3. you can follow the trains but ultimately die and if a person is nice they will raise you up if not you have to HP and even if so you are too weak to hurt the monster gaining less exp.

Why release something that doesn't benefit everyone but a specific crowd of people?

I must say this turns me off about doing it.

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People wanted to play XI but didn't want to sub for the actual game itself. Lo and behold, we get a poor man's XI with more flair but less fun.

I think (hope) SE will improve it dramatically. I can't stomach it as it is right now.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

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Yep looks bad he even did party finder and he got sick of waiting for 30 minutes cause most all are doing train and people choose low lv friends in fc or Ls

When you check party finder its mostly 10 and up no low level groups and if you weren't here when it started you lose out.

I do not know what SE was thinking with this its like abyss mostly instead of key items to power you up its elements.

Also notice some people shouting at low level end up just leaving usually couple of dps they don't want group just train.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

People wanted to play XI but didn't want to sub for the actual game itself. Lo and behold, we get a poor man's XI with more flair but less fun.

I think (hope) SE will improve it dramatically. I can't stomach it as it is right now.

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I really hope this was not their idea of trying to put something from FFXI into this game because it does such a poor job in doing so. There is a lot of good things in FFXI this game can learn from, but not abyssea leveling.

OP:
We had a lot of threads on this diadem 3.0 and the mods deleted a lot of them, isn't best just to post in the first impressions thread? such theme does fit what you are talking about here.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...sion-of-Eureka

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I really hope this was not their idea of trying to put something from FFXI into this game because it does such a poor job in doing so. There is a lot of good things in FFXI this game can learn from, but not abyssea leveling.

OP:
We had a lot of threads on this diadem 3.0 and the mods deleted a lot of them, isn't best just to post in the first impressions thread? such theme does fit what you are talking about here.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...sion-of-Eureka

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not a impressions thread, I am basically flat out saying its not fit for release.

It doesn't benefit anyone low level and if you work a job in real life good luck getting ahead in this some people quit FFXI because of the grind and getting left out and came to FFXIV for something new something they wouldn't get pushed out and sure you could say eventually they will patch it but it ain't gonna be anytime soon.

by that time they would of said forget it moved on and SE patches but by that time people moved on the next part they probably added in future making it less able to catch up.

You have to remember everyone pays a subscription and the content created should benefit everyone not making it where people get ditched.

Sorry that's just how I see it.

Not being invited to a party purely because high levels are wanted is purely the players fault. Not Eureka's and not SEs. You do not need an entire team of 19s to get Gold participation but people seem to think you do.

The general rule for Eureka for leveling off mobs is: If solo, fight mobs the same level as you, maybe a level above IF you can handle it and not die. If party, fight 3+ levels higher.
If your friend is fighting lvl 1 mobs as a lvl 4, then yes, it is going to feel boring and will take forever.

For raises, I've never been in an Eureka instance where all players didn't get raised after the NM was over. Ever. During? Eh, depends on MP of the RezMages.

I leveled to 20 purely off NM trains and in all the parties I was in, no one was ever kicked for their level. So it seems odd your friend is getting invited and then kicked. It does suck being a low level in Eureka, for sure, but not everyone is an elitist. When I make a party, I personally invite anyone that asks for a party. Regardless of level (I even invited a level 1 to NM train because he asked to lol).

In all, Eureka is partially to blame for being non newb friendly (In sense of low levels having a hard time) but players are also to blame.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

not a impressions thread, I am basically flat out saying its not fit for release.

It doesn't benefit anyone low level and if you work a job in real life good luck getting ahead in this some people quit FFXI because of the grind and getting left out and came to FFXIV for something new something they wouldn't get pushed out and sure you could say eventually they will patch it but it ain't gonna be anytime soon.

by that time they would of said forget it moved on and SE patches but by that time people moved on the next part they probably added in future making it less able to catch up.

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I agree but I am trying to tell you making a new thread on this is not a good idea, SE has been deleting them expecting them to post in that one.

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Originally Posted by TraeSnow

Not being invited to a party purely because high levels are wanted is purely the players fault. Not Eureka's and not SEs.

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Wrong it is SE's fault, with all the delays, level sync function in this environment should of been expected. Even with all the delays and recourse allocation to it in 17 month development ended up being released rushed and unfinished, no excuse for that.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Wrong it is SE's fault, with all the delays, level sync function in this environment should of been expected.

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Last I checked there is no feature created by SE that is forcing people to only play with other high levels. It is a choice by the player. SE has no control over that and they never will.

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Originally Posted by TraeSnow

Last I checked there is no feature created by SE that is forcing people to only play with other high levels. It is a choice by the player. SE has no control over that and they never will.

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Do you know what level sync is? It has been in FFXI for like 8 years, there is NO EXCUSE for this place to lack it, so it is SE's fault.
https://youtu.be/kGvtpwwHoJo?t=615

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Originally Posted by TraeSnow

In all, Eureka is partially to blame for being non newb friendly (In sense of low levels having a hard time) but players are also to blame.

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Such is the way with community driven content. It can shine, I have had some wonderful moments in Eureka because of this. However I also have had unpleasant moments because of some bad eggs. Sometimes it takes just one waste of space to ruin a fate for everyone.

Eureka is really missing a LFG tool. This would help players find others within their level bracket looking for those of similar level. Or perhaps something that would toss you into an instance with the most similarly leveled players present so you can easily find a group yourself. There isn't a lack of low level players, but they're spread across a large amount of instances.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Do you know what level sync is? It has been in FFXI for like 8 years, there is NO EXCUSE for this place to lack it, so it is SE's fault.
https://youtu.be/kGvtpwwHoJo?t=615

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Has nothing to do with level sync. The OP stated their friend was being kicked from NM parties because of their level. You do not need to sync your level to share exp for NMs.

Since an entire party of level 10s fighting a lvl 19 NM can still achieve gold participation, there is no reason at all in the DESIGN that forces people to only play with high levels for NMs. It is purely player choice, not a flaw in Eureka's design.

Now, grinding on mobs for exp, then yes, the flaw is with Eureka's design because you need to be with a party your level or you will not get exp. However, the OP stated NM train.

You have to do the thing everyone who played XI or 1.0 had to do.
Spend most of your game time forming a party. If you cannot find a train group, and don't want to solo things, then you find your own party. It will not be fast. This is part of the experience and is a feature.

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Originally Posted by TraeSnow

Not being invited to a party purely because high levels are wanted is purely the players fault. Not Eureka's and not SEs. You do not need an entire team of 19s to get Gold participation but people seem to think you do.

The general rule for Eureka for leveling off mobs is: If solo, fight mobs the same level as you, maybe a level above IF you can handle it and not die. If party, fight 3+ levels higher.
If your friend is fighting lvl 1 mobs as a lvl 4, then yes, it is going to feel boring and will take forever. For raises, I've never been in an Eureka instance where all players didn't get raised after the NM was over. Ever. During? Eh, depends on MP of the RezMages.

I leveled to 20 purely off NM trains and in all the parties I was in, no one was ever kicked for their level. So it seems odd your friend is getting invited and then kicked. It does suck being a low level in Eureka, for sure, but not everyone is an elitist. When I make a party, I personally invite anyone that asks for a party. Regardless of level (I even invited a level 1 to NM train because he asked to lol).

In all, Eureka is partially to blame for being non newb friendly (In sense of low levels having a hard time) but players are also to blame.

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There are ways to encourage people to party together even with level disparity. Eureka has NONE. this is a design failure. The majority of players , and humans in fact, will act in self interest first. This needs to be considered when designing something like this.
Blaming the players for something they have a choice to do and choosing NOT to cart around dead weight is not ok.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Blaming the players for something they have a choice to do and choosing NOT to cart around dead weight is not ok.

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...you think it's unreasonable for people to want everyone to do their fair share? o.O

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Originally Posted by Canadane

You have to do the thing everyone who played XI or 1.0 had to do.
Spend most of your game time forming a party. If you cannot find a train group, and don't want to solo things, then you find your own party. It will not be fast. This is part of the experience and is a feature.

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Frustrating features are bad features, though. Just because it was obtuse in 1.0 doesn't mean it should be bad in 4.0, too.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

...you think it's unreasonable for people to want everyone to do their fair share? o.O

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I think it's unreasonable to expect people to want to have lowbies in their party when they contribute nothing.
Thus damning lowbies to party with each other , which is a dwindling pool. Since it's dwindling now we have lowbies experiencing the wonder that is the single player eureka grind, which is undeniably slow and tedious.

There COULD have been incentives for large level disparities to party together, or high levels to cart around low levels, but there arent.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Spend most of your game time forming a party.

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It's been about a week and a half, and the majority of players in an instance are probably lvl 13 and up. XI didn't have just one job to level in the same way you only have elemental level in Eureka, nor was it possible to get that far that fast through no-lifing. There also eventually was level sync, and even as early as WOTG they had to start adding solo friendly measures to leveling. You can't really defend this system.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

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Uh, low levels don't "contribute nothing." If they contributed nothing, then a full team of low levels wouldn't be able to achieve gold participation in high level NMs. Healing isn't based on level or your Magia. Red Mage being able to fully revive an entire party with ease is still contributing. (Even high levels die in NMs) They will only deal less damage to NM, but participation is also based on healing. Will they get one hit by mechanics of NM? Possibly, but if they know how to dodge, their chances vastly improve. I remember doing Serket while under level and I never took damage the entire NM.

Players just seem to think only high levels offer anything to the party, when it isn't entirely true.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I think it's unreasonable to expect people to want to have lowbies in their party when they contribute nothing.
Thus damning lowbies to party with each other , which is a dwindling pool. Since it's dwindling now we have lowbies experiencing the wonder that is the single player eureka grind, which is undeniably slow and tedious.

There COULD have been incentives for large level disparities to party together, or high levels to cart around low levels, but there arent.

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I think Eureka would benefit greatly from a LFG tool or some sort of hidden feature that tosses you into instances with players of similar level.

That being said I don't think there is a lack of low level players. I still see plenty in Eureka. I think the issue is they're often spread across too many instances. It's not a good experience if you're lvl 5 and you're thrown into an instance with mostly lvl 15+ players, while another instance has plenty of players that are close to your level but isn't full yet.

I don't think it would be difficult for SE to create a system that places you in an instance based on your level or the average level of your party. Right now the game just tosses you into any instance that isn't full. That's pretty silly.

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Originally Posted by TraeSnow

Uh, low levels don't "contribute nothing." If they contributed nothing, then a full team of low levels wouldn't be able to achieve gold participation in high level NMs. Healing isn't based on level or your Magia. Red Mage being able to fully revive an entire party with ease is still contributing. (Even high levels die in NMs) They will only deal less damage to NM, but participation is also based on healing. Will they get one hit by mechanics of NM? Possibly, but if they know how to dodge, their chances vastly improve. I remember doing Serket while under level and I never took damage the entire NM.

Players just seem to think only high levels offer anything to the party, when it isn't entirely true.

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If I don't have a healing class (maybe tanking if you're brave) leveled, then I contribute nothing and I shouldn't have to level a whole different class just to do content at a reasonable pace. I understand what lowbies can try to do, but the chances of a level 1-3 dps being picked up by a high level party? Pretty much NIL. The incentive for the high levels is nothing though unless you want a res slave .
My point isn't that lowbies CAN'T contribute anything, it's that high levels have very little incentive to include all low levels in their parties.
(in my experience the NM mechanics aren't the difficult part, it's avoiding all the trash that spawns and people drag in)

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I think Eureka would benefit greatly from a LFG tool or some sort of hidden feature that tosses you into instances with players of similar level.

That being said I don't think there is a lack of low level players. I still see plenty in Eureka. I think the issue is they're often spread across too many instances. It's not a good experience if you're lvl 5 and you're thrown into an instance with mostly lvl 15+ players, while another instance has plenty of players that are close to your level but isn't full yet.

I don't think it would be difficult for SE to create a system that places you in an instance based on your level or the average level of your party. Right now the game just tosses you into any instance that isn't full. That's pretty silly.

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Thus a design problem, not something to put on the players. My point exactly.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's been about a week and a half, and the majority of players in an instance are probably lvl 13 and up. XI didn't have just one job to level in the same way you only have elemental level in Eureka, nor was it possible to get that far that fast through no-lifing. There also eventually was level sync, and even as early as WOTG they had to start adding solo friendly measures to leveling. You can't really defend this system.

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Now you know why I been calling some people white knights. There is no reason to defend such flaws outside that motivation.

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Originally Posted by TraeSnow

Uh, low levels don't "contribute nothing." If they contributed nothing, then a full team of low levels wouldn't be able to achieve gold participation in high level NMs. Healing isn't based on level or your Magia. Red Mage being able to fully revive an entire party with ease is still contributing. (Even high levels die in NMs) They will only deal less damage to NM, but participation is also based on healing. Will they get one hit by mechanics of NM? Possibly, but if they know how to dodge, their chances vastly improve. I remember doing Serket while under level and I never took damage the entire NM.

Players just seem to think only high levels offer anything to the party, when it isn't entirely true.

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You are stating untrue stuff. A low level party is leeching off the higher level players that it is meant for. They are not helping to kill it at all, just doing enough to get those points. It is better then jamming one button for 3+hrs getting carpal tunnel and I do it knowing full well I am leeching, I only do so because I want to play and talk to my SO. Don't sit there and tell me doing 100 or less damage per move is "participation"

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Originally Posted by TraeSnow

Has nothing to do with level sync. The OP stated their friend was being kicked from NM parties because of their level. You do not need to sync your level to share exp for NMs.

Since an entire party of level 10s fighting a lvl 19 NM can still achieve gold participation, there is no reason at all in the DESIGN that forces people to only play with high levels for NMs. It is purely player choice, not a flaw in Eureka's design.

Now, grinding on mobs for exp, then yes, the flaw is with Eureka's design because you need to be with a party your level or you will not get exp. However, the OP stated NM train.

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Nope it is SE's fault, it is the design choice result of rushing something unfinished out. (Also I do realize they delayed it, and the irony of saying they rushed something despite delays but it is what literally happened, this content was not ready to be released. This is why SE needs to start management tools like contingency plans better. There should been some earlier stage someone should went "we can't make this work go to plan B. What we see now with diadem 3.0 is bad management, bad planning, and bad testing, while trying to force this out anyway in an unfinished state.)

This isnt a flaw with Eureka anyone whos been playing MMOs for longer than six months recognizes this behavior its not an inherent problem with the content it's a problem with people only wanting the best groups to get done the fastest, I'm max elemental level with several relics and honestly you can find a party you just have to be willing to look, sure it'll take sometime it'll happen but it will.

I'm really struggling to understand how it's SE's fault people cant get parties, it isn't, all SE can do is add incentives to take lower levelled players but thats not SE's responsibility its the players to stop being selfish theres even ways around just spamming shout chat 'til you get an invite.

You could ask any FCs/LSs you're a part of or put up a PF beforehand to find players around your level to go with there's plenty trust me. This community needs to be stop being so determined to hate this content and actually put some effort in to make it work for them, because its sure as kupo better than another monotonous tome grind.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

This isnt a flaw with Eureka anyone whos been playing MMOs for longer than six months recognizes this behavior its not an inherent problem with the content it's a problem with people only wanting the best groups to get done the fastest, I'm max elemental level with several relics and honestly you can find a party you just have to be willing to look, sure it'll take sometime it'll happen but it will.

I'm really struggling to understand how it's SE's fault people cant get parties, it isn't, all SE can do is add incentives to take lower levelled players but thats not SE's responsibility its the players to stop being selfish theres even ways around just spamming shout chat 'til you get an invite.

You could ask any FCs/LSs you're a part of or put up a PF beforehand to find players around your level to go with there's plenty trust me. This community needs to be stop being so determined to hate this content and actually put some effort in to make it work for them, because its sure as kupo better than another monotonous tome grind.

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It is SE's objective to make content engaging for as many players as possible. Excluding people who aren't skilled at party forming or don't want to stand around in an instance yelling for 20 minutes isn't productive. Especially when the rest of the game has a "pick the thing you want to do, wait for it to start" mechanic.

I don't know why you think putting the onus to make something accessible is on the player.
The fact they COULD have made SOMETHING to help those people out, even designed the system better to make it beneficial to pick up other players besides similar level players is a failing.
I'm NOT determined to hate it, I want it to be friendly to everyone and it wont be. I've got mine, but it wasn't very fun and I don't see it being fun in the future. I've got suggestions on how to improve it and telling the company "it's ok, the people should just deal with it" is very selfish.

Why are you so determined to let obviously restrictive and short lived things stand when they could be better?

I get you enjoy it and like I said earlier, have at it! Grind those levels and get that gear! .. but people are going to be left behind and feeling crappy about it and it could be fixed without ANY detriment to the experience you already had. It might even make it so more people are playing for the next step and you'll get that social interaction in spades.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

It is SE's objective to make content engaging for as many players as possible. Excluding people who aren't skilled at party forming or don't want to stand around in an instance yelling for 20 minutes isn't productive.

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Somehow I have a feeling you havent done any other relics. SE hands you more than enough things maybe instead of calling things broken after twenty minutes of trying of anything that isnt explicit handholding, you get out of it what you put into it also "skilled at party forming?" because its soooo hard to ask for a party....

"I don't know why you think putting the onus to make something accessible is on the player. " I'm not, SE has made it so the players have every opportunity to help each other out, plenty of times I've had other people in my instances explain things to me help me out if it doesnt happen right away keep trying, you wont accomplish anything if you give up.

I've got suggestions on how to improve it and telling the company "it's ok, the people should just deal with it" is very selfish. This is the first introduction of this content, think of it as a beta its here in its current place is for players to try a rough version of the finished product so they can know from the players what does or doesnt work and make it more enjoyable in the future just writing the entire thing off because oh its broken is also selfish and doesnt help anyone yourself included.

Why are you so determined to let obviously restrictive and short lived things stand when they could be better? because ive yet to see fair criticism from people who havent given it a fair chance just people who tried a few hours and gave up because omg its haaaard.

I get you enjoy it and like I said earlier, have at it! Grind those levels and get that gear! .. I don't actually I have plenty of complaints but I see how calling it broken isnt constructive, and it gets annoying seeing a weeks worth of people throwing childish temper tantrums.

This is also very obviously worlds better than "hey lets run ARF 77 times" and the things im seeing people complain about is things that are fixed with 10% more effort, and hey if you dont want to put that effort in thats your decision it's optional content AND its likely to be heavily nerfed like literally every other relic ever.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

People wanted to play XI but didn't want to sub for the actual game itself. Lo and behold, we get a poor man's XI with more flair but less fun.

I think (hope) SE will improve it dramatically. I can't stomach it as it is right now.

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I wish FFXI was on PS4 I would love to play the game. I use to play a game called White Knight Chronicles. The story was ok but the online game was awesome... You would farm for hours with friends trying to get rare mats that helped to upgrade all types of gear from +1 to +20. I really miss that open world feel and farming mats. Eureka is a good start but i really hope for more. :)

heres how eurka works right now that i noted when i went to level.
Follow NM train : no matter what level you go with you lvl fast. you get exp from EVERY fate.
some parties could give two poos for you being lvl 1 or 2 they'll still take you, why you dont inhibit what theyre doing at all.
next up, they level faster then say grinding.
lastly those who kick the low lvls saying they shouldn't be leaches well what else are they supposed to do the high lvls kill they're fates the minute they pop in under a minute.
and then you have people like you who say they shouldnt be there in the first place.. im sorry but low lvls should be with everyone because if highlvls can kill the low lvls fates. low lvls can be at the high lvl fates <3 unless you back off those low lvl fates and leave those to them.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

Somehow I have a feeling you havent done any other relics. SE hands you more than enough things maybe instead of calling things broken after twenty minutes of trying of anything that isnt explicit handholding, you get out of it what you put into it also "skilled at party forming?" because its soooo hard to ask for a party....

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My LUX begs to differ. It's not hard for me. I have no problem bothering people for a party. But why should I have to? The rest of the game doesn't make me stand there and beg and it was one of the things I didn't enjoy about FFXI. Why put it back in the game?

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Originally Posted by Crescents

"I don't know why you think putting the onus to make something accessible is on the player. " I'm not, SE has made it so the players have every opportunity to help each other out, plenty of times I've had other people in my instances explain things to me help me out if it doesnt happen right away keep trying, you wont accomplish anything if you give up.

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And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

I've got suggestions on how to improve it and telling the company "it's ok, the people should just deal with it" is very selfish. This is the first introduction of this content, think of it as a beta its here in its current place is for players to try a rough version of the finished product so they can know from the players what does or doesnt work and make it more enjoyable in the future just writing the entire thing off because oh its broken is also selfish and doesnt help anyone yourself included.

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When have I ever written the whole thing off? Are you thinking of someone else? I'm doing it! I'm level 15 and I just have to get to 19 to finish my relic. I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. then you take the feeback , which is what I'm giving , and make improvements. Selfish is telling everyone else who has experienced it and found it trying that they just need to suck it up because it shouldn't be changed.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

Why are you so determined to let obviously restrictive and short lived things stand when they could be better? because ive yet to see fair criticism from people who havent given it a fair chance just people who tried a few hours and gave up because omg its haaaard.

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Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

I get you enjoy it and like I said earlier, have at it! Grind those levels and get that gear! .. I don't actually I have plenty of complaints but I see how calling it broken isnt constructive, and it gets annoying seeing a weeks worth of people throwing childish temper tantrums.

This is also very obviously worlds better than "hey lets run ARF 77 times" and the things im seeing people complain about is things that are fixed with 10% more effort, and hey if you dont want to put that effort in thats your decision it's optional content AND its likely to be heavily nerfed like literally every other relic ever.

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Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable, however I've also been offering alternatives. "Don't like it don't do it" is not a good solution. A true dev hears "This was very unattractive to me" and asks "why?". "wait till it's nerfed" is a very large cop out. As I've stated, calmly and distinctly, it isn't difficult to do but it could be so much more engaging if some changes were made.


I have a feeling you're replying to me but lumping me in with some of the more... colorful opposition. I am not them and will never think or argue like them. I will however continue to present my problems and argue that the content is not very welcoming or engaging.

I wouldn't say its broken per say. Its more about....this is what happens when trying to mix the older style of MMO's with the newer style's, the past and present conflicting with each other. In games like EverQuest and Final Fantasy XI, the style worked. Players had a large pick of open world zones spanning the entire leveling spectrum and each zone having its own thing going on. Here they tried to cram nearly an entire older MMO's style of content in one single zone and call it a day. It might have worked better if it was made as a series of zones. Here's the level 1-10 zone, now here's the level 11-20 zone, and so on and so on.

I have many issues with Eureka, but the whole lowbie/newbie is definitely not one of them. The whole argument of "SE should do something because ..." is an age old argument that goes no where. Some of you are talking like this is the first or only time this is an issue:

- Primal Farm Party cut out newbies.
- Savage Clear Party cut out newbies.
- High DPS Party leave out newbies.
- Early adopting crafters trying to corner the Market.


And many many many more, this is not something unique to Eureka, or something even unique to this game. Want to group with people of the same level as you are, be it style/skill/progress have always been a thing in EVERY MMO since the very first MMO came out. However for what it's worth, my main is at lvl19 and I just started 'casually' lvling my alt in Eureka, I just hit lvl6 tonight. And you know what, I have never have trouble find party. I was in a group that was killing Cyclop, Pale Rider ...etc... today and get gold on them.

Am I progressing as fast as my main on the first week? No. But I'm also admitting the fact my alt missed the original rush fervor and I'm ok with that. It takes "a bit" more afford, it progresses "a little" slower. But reading some of the complains here you would think people claiming it's impossible to progress as a lowbie now, which is not true. Tbh, this is the same as the usual cry you hear about content clears. I have always been playing casually, sometime I clear very early in the content circle, sometime I lag behind and had to try to get a late clear. While the latter is always slower than the former, but you know ... it was never impossible, that's why the "OMG everyone moved ahead and no one wanted to help me now, this is bad design!!!" cry never did sit well with me. Help yourself, the content is only around 2 weeks old, progressing through it is still completely viable with just a "tiny little bit extra" afford on your part. Don't be that guy crying in chat about "OMG EVERYONE ON A MOUNT AND LEAVING ME BEHIND QQ!!".

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

My LUX begs to differ. It's not hard for me. I have no problem bothering people for a party. But why should I have to? .

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This is essentially what party finder is, begging for a party its only more efficient and you can be specific unless you want SE to add separate instances for different levels say only 1-10 can join one and 11-20 could join another when we queue in initially, thats quite literally the only thing SE can do besides add incentives it's up to the playerbase to work together and if we did split instances one would be dead and the other wouldnt as someone whos actually created many many NM parties I always add lower players if theres nobody else, contribution is contribution so the issues you're talking about arent present you're just giving up very quickly.

And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally. Because it is, you're acting like Eureka is unplayable when even with the slightest effort myself and many others have gotten along just fine, its a time sink yes (isn't every relic though? and if you've done a lux you should be aware of that)

I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. You havent said a single constructive or helpful thing in any reply to me so far except that it's so awful and broken and terrible and SE needs to fix it but I've yet to see you bring up any alternatives or fixes.

Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics. Sure it's boring what relic isnt? heck, what grind isnt, its a timesink because its designed to be accessible for all players thats why it is nothing like the zodiac weapons very first step, again compared to the anima progression its a giant step forward.

Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable,
I actually wasnt talking about you specifically you'll notice in my original post you've so helpfully quoted I said people are not you it was referring to the people rage unsubbing which again is their pejorative but no, complaining and whining about how broken it is without explanations or alternatives isnt helpful in the slightest

it's like walking into starbucks saying "the coffee sucks I hate it here" isn't helpful I'm responding to what you said in relation to my posts im not doing a deep dive on your post history.

Also something constructive would be like, say they should add a daily quest from Krile that makes you kill X amount of mobs or NM and it'll give you an amount of xp and crystals to speed things up, or adding a level gap bonus similar to the mentor/sprout one that currently exists Eureka in it's current state isnt broken by any stretch of the imagination but its not perfect and I can guarentee if you formed a pf before going in it would fill in under ten minutes and all your issues would be gone, people are more than happy to help out low players. Again speaking from personal experience.

The issue with the train is people with mounts beat the people without. Making it harder and harder for people to gain levels. Can't keep up with the train you miss out..

I only made it to level 8 before needing to do stuff IRL and wont get back to it for a few more days. I tried to hope in today but by the time I got to the fates they where nearly dead a best my FC party could do was silver.
Please add fates can't take dmg for 1 minute after engaged.

Im sorry i dont see ANY level discrimination, even at level 5 as a black mage out of all things people invited me and i tagged along on trains even on stuff like fafnir and pazuzu(was level 8 for pazuzu), i dont see any of this discrimination or "i dont get invited" thing you speak of, i know my own personal expirience is anecdotal but when ur a class with zero use outside of damage and u still get invited to any train group i find it difficult how can any1 else have the trouble.

Also, on any group at any level ull get gold participation fairly easily, there are multiple ways to do it.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

This is essentially what party finder is, begging for a party its only more efficient and you can be specific unless you want SE to add separate instances for different levels say only 1-10 can join one and 11-20 could join another when we queue in initially, thats quite literally the only thing SE can do besides add incentives it's up to the playerbase to work together and if we did split instances one would be dead and the other wouldnt as someone whos actually created many many NM
parties I always add lower players if theres nobody else, contribution is contribution so the issues you're talking about arent present you're just giving up very quickly.

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Unfortunately party finder has become 11+ when I try to use it. We have a duty system for other instanced items, I'd love them to apply it to Eureka. The issues of people not wanting lowbies ? The issues of people only taking heal/res lowbies? The issues of future lowbies possibly being put in an instance with only pazuzu hunters? Which one? I'd say all of those are still relevant regardless of "contribution is contribution".. some even BECAUSE of contribution is contribution.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

And I'd be glad to help people out, but by blaming the players for not making parties and helping lowbies out you ARE making it their fault. Literally. Because it is, you're acting like Eureka is unplayable when even with the slightest effort myself and many others have gotten along just fine, its a time sink yes (isn't every relic though? and if you've done a lux you should be aware of that)

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Yes every relic is, but every relic wasn't a constant 3 hour streak of doing my rotation or standing around being useless while others did work. I am not saying it's unplayable. I'm saying it's unpleasant and not fun. I, again, have never said it's difficult. Effort isn't the issue I'm pressing. It's accessibility, engagement and enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

I'm suggesting improvements. SE has never simply removed content because of complaints and will likely NOT scrap eureka. I'm suggesting improvements though because SURE it's beta.. You havent said a single constructive or helpful thing in any reply to me so far except that it's so awful and broken and terrible and SE needs to fix it but I've yet to see you bring up any alternatives or fixes.

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To YOU personally? Perhaps not. But I have ,earlier, suggested things like partyfinding, removing the useless elemental aspect or making it worth something (I'll admit, it's hard to think of HOW.. ) , level syncing , Changing xp loss to a teleport back to the starting point so you lose opportunity instead of progress. Pointing out problems and things I dislike about the content is constructive as long as I don't say something like "I just hate this". Why do I hate it? Why does it make me feel like something isn't worth it? Why am I reluctant to engage in an activity? All things that would be of concern and representing valuable feedback to someone trying to refine an experience.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

Once again, I'm nearly done with it. It's not HARD. It's frustratingly drawn out and when you circumvent that part it's boring and has superfluous mechanics. Sure it's boring what relic isnt? heck, what grind isnt, its a timesink because its designed to be accessible for all players thats why it is nothing like the zodiac weapons very first step, again compared to the anima progression its a giant step forward.

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It doesn't HAVE to be boring. It can be lengthy and investment heavy WITHOUT being boring. I don't pay to be bored and you shouldn't either. Just because something before was worse doesn't mean I can't hope that something later would be better or improved.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

Show me one thing I've said that's childish. I've gone through great lengths to make every bit of input I've posted be constructive, well explained and civil. Calling something broken when it's broken and offering no solutions is still feedback and valuable,
I actually wasnt talking about you specifically you'll notice in my original post you've so helpfully quoted I said people are not you it was referring to the people rage unsubbing which again is their pejorative but no, complaining and whining about how broken it is without explanations or alternatives isnt helpful in the slightest

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OK, dropped then.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

it's like walking into starbucks saying "the coffee sucks I hate it here" isn't helpful I'm responding to what you said in relation to my posts im not doing a deep dive on your post history.

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I agree, that's very unhelpful.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I agree, that's very unhelpful.

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Surely you can say how it's unhepful to simple say, it's so broken without any reasonable alternatives then?

Unfortunately party finder has become 11+ when I try to use it. We have a duty system for other instanced items, I'd love them to apply it to Eureka. Sure if you're looking form your own party im sure theres people that need exactly what you do instance PF would be helpful but Eureka is far from broken without it which is what the OP is implying. I agree the magia board needs to be reworked or totally removed and im sorry but at level 17+ I was in parties and formed parties that were taking lvl 4 and under players so its not my experience they are abandoned.

Yes every relic is, but every relic wasn't a constant 3 hour streak of doing my rotation or standing around being useless while others did work. I would say this is the fault of the way the playerbase chooses to be and without ridiculous incentives we won't see any change, and I would say compared to other relics this is a breath of fresh air, it's sociable and its not another tome/light grind until you cry sure this is boring and every relic was but you're right it doesnt have to be but as it stands Eureka is a giant leap forward and with feedback hopefully it can be something people enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

SE hand holds you everywhere in ffxiv, how is that an argument for anything? Lacking tools is not a pro for this content, it was released unfinished it was rushed out because they needed get something out after all this time.

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I don't agree, I dont think it lacks tools theres introductory quests and most people in the instance will be more than happy to help and I dont think it was rushed, I think they waited all this time to have it better and its better to look at it like a work in progress that is workable and when they finally have player criticism will be improved it's kinda silly to find it broken.

This diadem requires too much time in one sitting, the other relics did not have this issue. Yeah actually they did, umbrite and unidentifieds when they were new in heavensward took MUCH longer than Eureka does, people had weapons in two days for tose steps they didnt for much, much longer also the fact that you did a relic in XI is kinda irrelevant.

I also spent 2-3 hours across 5 days I think, and I still think it is the worst most boring thing 2-3 hours isnt enough time to fairly judge content as expansive as this, also I dont see why I should have to read a specific thread which is probably an echo chamber just to respond to you.

this is 4.25, being a beta has no defense here. They had no player feedback til now please say how they were supposed to make it perfect on release?

it gets annoying seeing people trying to defend it, annoying to see SE white knights insulting people for disliking it. I'm not a "white knight" whatever that is, I've acknowledged Eureka has its flaws its far from perfect but it is not broken and I believe it'll be better when they adjust future updates with feedback that they now have and im sorry just because people insult you (which ive not done) doesnt even in the slightest mean the content is broken.

In-fact 1-2 hrs should be simply easier with easier to solo and better introductions to let people warm up to it better. it's an MMO we've known the basic concept of what Eureka was for months we knew it was an open world-ish with an independant levelling systems if you've been following it at all you would know this and wouldnt be complaining and it's an MMO it's meant to be played cooperatively they're not to make purely solo play more rewarding than group play, they're incentivising people to work together hence why every quest doesnt have markers and FORCES you to ask other people.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

This diadem requires too much time in one sitting, the other relics did not have this issue. Yeah actually they did, umbrite and unidentifieds when they were new in heavensward took MUCH longer than Eureka does, people had weapons in two days for tose steps they didnt for much, much longer also the fact that you did a relic in XI is kinda irrelevant.

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What? You could farm poetics, seals, tomestone, beast tribes... Farming unidentified was slow, but one time in the same place? That's fake news. You could even do PvP to farm unidentified, you could do everything you wanted to farm unidentified.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

What? You could farm poetics, seals, tomestone, beast tribes... Farming unidentified was slow, but one time in the same place?

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Sorry had to finish laughing before I respond to this im not even sure if its a troll post or not, did you actually call something fake news...? I mean really?

I was referring to the ARF grind for poetics which was the most effective method which was what MOST of us did, myself included sure there were dailies (which ive already suggested they add in eureka if you had even read my posts in their entirety) but yes you could get them through lots of methods but for most people it was either waiting MONTHS on unids for them to come from your daily beast tribes, roulettes etc or you were spamming one piece of content over and over and over and over again which was again my point.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

What? You could farm poetics, seals, tomestone, beast tribes... Farming unidentified was slow, but one time in the same place? That's fake news. You could even do PvP to farm unidentified, you could do everything you wanted to farm unidentified.

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Sure you could. On old outdated content you have already seen and done before hundreds of times in an effortless attempt to keep old content from dying. Eureka is at least on a new map. Sure, it's still FATEs but at least the FATEs are new stuff, even with mechanics I might add. Sure beats running the same outdated content one million times for poe because the internet wizards say this one specific activity is the faster than all the rest. Eureka also adds more rewards than just the relic, and offers the easiest method for completing all the relics in a single stage. It already offers far more verity than both previous relics ever did.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

not a impressions thread, I am basically flat out saying its not fit for release.

Sorry that's just how I see it.

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Man I was level 20 4 days of grinding, you guys are a bunch of whiners....

Level wont say much about the person and that is what i notice yesterday so if i am leader will just anyone that shout lfg. But some people...

Did it twice yesterday.
1. Helped a lv 17 who was trying to get her quest but died. Me and the another RDM were on the way to raise. Raised her and back to the train were White Rider NM popped. Problem she died twice because agro 2-3 mobs. Ow ok can happen raise again and walks right back into the mobs and dies. I asked : What are you doing....? No answer and we missed the NM because of it. O well too bad on to the next another nm and.... the person leaves... WTF.

2. Helping a lv 13 person. But got every mob argo so I sleep them, no biggy. Too bad he wakes them up again and dies. Ok raise again and let's jump down. Person takes 1-2 min to jump down and got agro while jumping... both died and no raise. For the first time in 4 years FFXIV I ragequite.

I have seen lv 3 better avoid stuff then the 2 in my story above.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

Surely you can say how it's unhepful to simple say, it's so broken without any reasonable alternatives then?

Unfortunately party finder has become 11+ when I try to use it. We have a duty system for other instanced items, I'd love them to apply it to Eureka. Sure if you're looking form your own party im sure theres people that need exactly what you do instance PF would be helpful but Eureka is far from broken without it which is what the OP is implying. I agree the magia board needs to be reworked or totally removed and im sorry but at level 17+ I was in parties and formed parties that were taking lvl 4 and under players so its not my experience they are abandoned.

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Alternatives would be nice, but what the OP did was give examples of why they felt it was broken, which is useful. The perspective of someone dropping into the content and what they felt and their point of view is a valuable resource for someone planning content changes or even future content. Sure we can "educate" them on the best way to do it or the proper way to do it, but telling them their experience was invalid and they're foolish helps very little.
The content is 2 weeks old, the "zerg" is still spanning a decent amount of levels and there will always be a few charitable people in a group trying out new content. Future populations will tend to be far more spread apart level wise and likely limited to people doing the relic grind only, I hope people are there to help, but it will depend on them being charitable for charities sake, something I will not bet money on. This is something I really hope I'm wrong about.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

Yes every relic is, but every relic wasn't a constant 3 hour streak of doing my rotation or standing around being useless while others did work. I would say this is the fault of the way the playerbase chooses to be and without ridiculous incentives we won't see any change, and I would say compared to other relics this is a breath of fresh air, it's sociable and its not another tome/light grind until you cry sure this is boring and every relic was but you're right it doesnt have to be but as it stands Eureka is a giant leap forward and with feedback hopefully it can be something people enjoy.

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You can bet money that players will always, ALWAYS find the easiest way to do content and then the majority will only do that until the content is spent or changed (see "loot cave" from destiny) . Expecting them not to is setting your system up for failure. Feedback like what we don't enjoy and what we think doesn't work. I don't think incentives are the ONLY way to encourage people to assist underlevels but it's probably the easiest to add and path of least resistance has been the norm. Can you honestly say If I ran an alt and asked people to party up and do the mob chain and only invite people near our level as the content seems to intend.. I'd not be looking a very long while?