Equipment token system needs to be expanded to other content

I'm aware this topic has been brought up before, but couldn't find a recent thread with a cursory search. Been grinding Dun Scaith for weeks and have yet to see the tank pants, which is one of the only remaining pieces I have left to obtain in preparation for Stormblood. There should be some kind of token given for each clear that you can exchange for the gear you want, similarly to the primal totems (and Alexandrian parts), so that this kind of thing doesn't happen. It's really hurting my enjoyment of the game.

They will pop it's just a RNG. The system is fine it's just a grind also when you least expect them they usually pop.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

They will pop it's just a RNG. The system is fine it's just a grind also when you least expect them they usually pop.

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When it takes weeks and you still haven't seen the given item, there's a problem that needs addressing. I'm aware that MMOs are about the grind, and I'm fine with that (I do enjoy tossing on some music and having at it), but there is a limit where it stops being okay.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

one of the only remaining pieces I have left to obtain in preparation for Stormblood. There should be some kind of token given for each clear that you can exchange for the gear you want, similarly to the primal totems (and Alexandrian parts), so that this kind of thing doesn't happen.

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There are other, better, more reliably obtainable pants you can wear instead.
Doing DR:Expert once per day for ten days will give you 900 tomes, which you can apply to Shire pants. There are roughly 60 days until Stormblood, so you can even do it on an irregular schedule, if you don't want to grind.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

When it takes weeks and you still haven't seen the given item, there's a problem that needs addressing. I'm aware that MMOs are about the grind, and I'm fine with that (I do enjoy tossing on some music and having at it), but there is a limit where it stops being okay.

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You sound a little bit overdramatic here - I get your frustration, I totally do, but I'm also a bit... mmh... lets say "unsure" if this is indeed a real problem.
Dont get me wrong and please hear me out! There is a reason beside the obvious one (which would be: SE needs us to do this content over and over again and therefor RNG is "good")

But first, lets take a look at our options for gearing up!
We have:
1) Tomes - get any 260-pieve you want! Currently the cap is extended to 900 tomes per week, so you can even get the most expensive parts (legs, body) in one week
2) Alexandergear - and tokens. Get any 250 piece you want, if you're lucky enough to roll high enough - or, even better, get any 270 piece you want by just beating Savage often enough. Or rolling high enough on the gear drop...
3) Crafted gear - lets not easly dismiss getting any 255 gearpiece you need (with the option to overmeld it!) by buying it, crafting it yourself or having a crafter friend do that for you!
4) RNG-drops from Dun Scaith - get lucky with your one 260 piece a week!
5) Diadem - even more RNG, but also potential cool 265 gear...

...kinda 6) Stormblood on our doorstep with better get around level 65, most likely...

Why do I mention all those options? To put the RNG-aspect into perspective - there are plenty of options to get gear. I know ofc that the shire legs arent... great - but even if you're raiding it doesnt matter that much tbh.
Now why I am infact a little bit of favour of RNG (at least in this case - given all the other options): I know the frustration of not getting a piece very well, but to me thats a price we pay for the great feeling of getting lucky and seeing the piece we want drop into our inventory at last!
While I can see the benefits of a tokensystem, it would also turn Dun Scaith into "just another grind" for me, taking away from the excitment of MAYBE seeing the right piece finally. Its a psychologcial thing, I reckon and maybe you wont really understand my points since I find it difficult to explain why I do like having that one random-option within all those gear progression.

To sum it up though: The RNG there isnt really hindering anyones progression, given the amount of alternatives. It can be both a reason for huge frustration but at the same time for huge joy! I consider that somewhat "fair" and okay.

I disagree with the token system, i'd rather it be turned into personalized loot then tokens I enjoy running this once a week, if I get something good before I finish for an off class great. Personalized loot would turn it into you que as any DoW class > pick preference for what loot you want > loot for what you selected will drop, it'll still be RNG but you won't fight anyone for it and if you don't want it you can pass it.

If you look at the loot tables for each 24 man raid it's 20-24 items that CAN drop per boss which to me is just bad design, I can't begin to tell you how many double caster coats dropped from 3rd boss and 4th boss. No one wants to sit there and grind Dun Scaith more than once for their weekly I know I sure don't I try to avoid it as much as possible unless it's for a Proto Ultima piece.

Not to mention we do have scriptures at 900 instead of 450, which I know Shire tank pants are garbage but at least they're there and you don't need BiS to level through SB.

Id be okay with -insert dungeon name- coin drops to trade for gear. Ive been grinding sohr khai for a month to get just the Conqueror set and so far I only got the headpiece. Id rather not spend ages trying to get a full set of gear, even more so that Id more likely get better gear before getting half of a set.

With the amount of options you have instead of Dun Scaith's legs, there isn't much need for it honestly. I've been there, and so has a friend(wanted the Armor of Light and spent pretty much half a year trying to get it). For the longest time, I never saw a single piece of MNK gear drop. It didn't bother me as I just picked up other pieces to replace it, finally a piece dropped and I could use it! That feeling was joy, relief, and excitement. I think that is what makes Dun and instances like it so good. Finally getting something you have been working at for ages, or finally getting that mechanic down that you have been struggling with. Here is a bit of encouragement. Keep going my friend, there is light at the end and trust me, because it's this hard to get, when you get it, you'll be happier than without this grind. Makes these items more attachable. I know I love my Royal Vest, it's pointless, looks cool, but it's my pride and joy because I spent ages farming it.

Honestly, RNG is shit and at the very best feeds a gambling addiction that shouldn't be supported in the first place. It doesn't make people run content considerably more often on average, it only cross-subsidizes the instant gratification of the lucky at the cost of the unlucky and completely screws up any effort to reward ratio, thereby devaluing effort as such.

It's a relic from the time when developers didn't know better and should die the death it deserves. Seriously, fuck that design PoS.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Honestly, RNG is shit and at the very best feeds a gambling addiction that shouldn't be supported in the first place. It doesn't make people run content considerably more often on average, it only cross-subsidizes the instant gratification of the lucky at the cost of the unlucky and completely screws up any effort to reward ratio, thereby devaluing effort as such.

It's a relic from the time when developers didn't know better and should die the death it deserves. Seriously, fuck that design PoS.

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Big words. I feel like it distracts a lot of flaws with those statements.

The DSM-5 defines Gambling addiction as similiar to a substance addiction in which the afflicted individual shows the same symptoms, such as harm to oneself or others. Gambling is also defined as a wager with monetary value or goods of equal value and are often placed on instant outcomes, such as rolling a dice, spinning a wheel, or a horse crossing the finish line.

The statement in which you claim that people don't run it more often than average without RNG is hearsay. There is no evidence backing such a claim, in fact, games with RNG grind have shown to have a longer shelf life than those of "instant gratification". Such as, WoW, Runescape, Diablo, and Borderlands. All of these games use RNG, even to an excessive amounts. Yet almost all of them are seen as works of art. Like it or not, RNG is not a "PoS". It has shown to work in numerous games and to extend a shelf life of a game.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Honestly, RNG is shit and at the very best feeds a gambling addiction that shouldn't be supported in the first place. It doesn't make people run content considerably more often on average, it only cross-subsidizes the instant gratification of the lucky at the cost of the unlucky and completely screws up any effort to reward ratio, thereby devaluing effort as such.

It's a relic from the time when developers didn't know better and should die the death it deserves. Seriously, fuck that design PoS.

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This very forum speaks to the contrary. People have frequently voiced annoyance over running Weeping or Scaith 20+ times for their drop. Games like Overwatch and Mass Effect base their entire multiple component on RNG loot boxes where you either grind endlessly and hope you get what you're looking for or you use real money for more boxes. It may not be a system people like, but it has been proven effective.

20? Lol... I had to run Dun Scaith 70 times to get BRD pants. Seventy times during which, prior to the pair I did get, I only saw one drop. (And that one drop was on my 2nd run, patch day, and lost the lot 97 to a 98, which is no doubt why I was so torqued.) In any case, I don't think rng should be gotten rid of completely, but I DO think it should be constrained somehow. For example, imagine this system:

1: All gear drops could be purchased with Dun Scaith tokens: Say, 30 each for head, arms, feet, 50 each for body, legs.
2: Only one token purchase per week.
3: This weekly limit would be shared with the weekly drop/loot limit.
4: Each time you clear and do not win a single lot, you get one token.
5: If you do win a lot, ALL of your saved tokens vanish.

See, this way, most of the gear still comes from lotting, while those of us with really crappy luck are still guaranteed of eventually getting what we're after, even if it takes forever.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This very forum speaks to the contrary. People have frequently voiced annoyance over running Weeping or Scaith 20+ times for their drop. Games like Overwatch and Mass Effect base their entire multiple component on RNG loot boxes where you either grind endlessly and hope you get what you're looking for or you use real money for more boxes. It may not be a system people like, but it has been proven effective.

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Using Overwatch as an example, the grind is at least better streamlined. Getting duplicates of items from lootboxes yields you credits. With enough credits, you are eventually able to buy what you actually want. (Aside from past event items, of course.) In this sense, it gives an alternative into getting what you'd like. (You also have the option to BUY lootboxes, but that's a different matter altogether.)

With Dun Scaith or any other dungeons with gear you want from them, you're left with no choice but keep running the content over and over again. Take for example the Wrangler's Jacket from Sohr Kai/Hullbreaker HM. I lost count after I ran it fifteen times. I think it's a bit unacceptable to run one thing that many times just for something I want. I can deal with doing it ten times. (Which is the number you need to do any HW EX trial if the weapon you want doesn't drop.)

Constantly bad RNG is a thing, and I wish there was a countermeasure against that.

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Originally Posted by Centershock

Using Overwatch as an example, the grind is at least better streamlined. Getting duplicates of items from lootboxes yields you credits. With enough credits, you are eventually able to buy what you actually want. (Aside from past event items, of course.) In this sense, it gives an alternative into getting what you'd like.

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What you failed to mention, was the fact that the credits you get, isn't even a drop in a piggy bank, and you don't always get credits with every box. Since we are ignoring buying the boxes, that means if you want to get your legendary skin(who doesn't?) you have to do all the dailies and weeklies and all that jive, AND level up. Now, this was me buying the boxes, but I went through something like...30-something boxes before I finally GOT my skin. I still did not have the credits to buy it. So, if we want to use that as an example, you would be playing the game WAY LONGER than those dungeons you referenced. Now, mentioning if it's more fun or whatnot, is just preference, has no baring on the topic of RNG.

Honestly, at this point if you don't have the Alexandrian tank pants and are frustrated with Dun Scathe RNG just buy the Shire pants (wait...did I really just type that?)

You're not raiding (or you'd have the Alex pants already); you don't need good stats on all your gear, just ilv. Just upgrade them to get i270 pants and wait for Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Ransom

In any case, I don't think rng should be gotten rid of completely, but I DO think it should be constrained somehow. For example, imagine this system:

1: All gear drops could be purchased with Dun Scaith tokens: Say, 30 each for head, arms, feet, 50 each for body, legs.
2: Only one token purchase per week.
3: This weekly limit would be shared with the weekly drop/loot limit.
4: Each time you clear and do not win a single lot, you get one token.
5: If you do win a lot, ALL of your saved tokens vanish.

See, this way, most of the gear still comes from lotting, while those of us with really crappy luck are still guaranteed of eventually getting what we're after, even if it takes forever.

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This is an example of the kind of system that needs to be in place (although I personally wouldn't have the tokens vanish, that's a bit overkill).

I'm honestly okay with "tokens" "vanishing" once you do get a drop you want (and win the roll of course) if you get it in 9 or less attempts. Even with Dungeon drops. This might be harder to implement with dungeons but I don't see why they don't do something like this in 24-man raids.

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Originally Posted by Centershock

I'm honestly okay with "tokens" "vanishing" once you do get a drop you want (and win the roll of course) if you get it in 9 or less attempts. Even with Dungeon drops. This might be harder to implement with dungeons but I don't see why they don't do something like this in 24-man raids.

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If you're going to have the tokens vanish, it'd have to be an all-or-nothing thing. There'd be far too many arguments about all the multitude of specifics on it. You'd also need to make the number of tokens required to purchase the gear pieces quite a bit lower than the 50/30 mentioned before.

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Originally Posted by Ransom

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I don't want to run this place 30-50 times for tokens that will vanish when you get an item, assume you ran it 29 times for 49 times and then that run you get an item all those tokens are gone. I don't get why people want tokens especially these pseudo tokens that are gone once you get an item, what's the point? I might as well run it 50+ times anyways to get something, the loot system in 24 mans are really terrible and I hope SE learns their lesson with LotA/ST/WoD/, and the HW raids for Return to Ivalice.

I personally don't think tokens are the answer if they do add them just make it 10 we're at the end of the expansion with a plethora of ways to get gear not just Dun Scaith but Scrip, crafting, Savage raiding. Having to farm all these tokens and having them vanish just seems like padding to an expansion that we're already waiting for that's going to make this gear we get obsolete anyways.

At the least in 4.X they mentioned they're gonna be making loot that drops only for a class that's actually in the instance, from what I remember

Suggested variations of this stuff and I think one thing I like is using the mother crystal in more things (like my love to see moogles used more lol). So you have /every/ content using this sort of aetherial charge and a unified screen that displays the types of charge and stores it (doesn't take up inventory). Through your communion with the mother crystal and enough energy you grant her she takes that and changes it into a desired item. Preferably they keep it simple and a long lasting system (not 150000 different currencies) however a unified screen would make many currencies easy to understand and track anyways, rather than trying to find all your actual item tokens.

I would actually suggest a mix of specific tokens and generic tokens, for a few reasons. Anything not end cap is under generic token system and everything capped is under a unique system (can move older more dead content into the noncapped too but lets go onto the issues). The reason being you don't want people farming a specific turn or version of the new end content because it's faster as they could then use those points to purchase the other content's gear (basically you dont want to encourage people to run specific content over other content more than they already will). So new/end content would need it's own turn/coil specific tokens (turn 1 aetherial charge doesn't purchase turn 2 items for example, but you can use your generic Aurum Vale all you want for Haukke Manor - as they'd be the same token type)

The generic content tokens would just be in tiers of rarity, or could all be one unified currency - depends on if SE wants to add "Legendary" super rare items to old content or not. Once you've earned enough points you can spend the money in the screen and the next time you run that content you will earn that item at the completion of it (unsynced or sycned doesn't matter) - if you get the item before the end of the content you will instead receive a refund on the points spent (that specific run, not all runs into the future too). This way even if you use the points you earned farming Aurum Value you still need to run Haukke Manor once to complete the transaction you issued - and if you get lucky and get the item you wanted you wont feel bad as you'll get the spent points back anyways.

If they add a glamour log like an item log, which is what I hope - so that you can see all the items you've collected, I think it might be nice to let that item log also act as connection into the mother crystal interface. Say you're looking at your glamour log and you notice a hat you don't have from a certain content, you try it on and you love the way it looks, and so you click on it and the game knows you dont have it so it asks if you'd like to spend "whatever currency name here" to bind that item's fate to yours. This way it would be super simple to both see what you have, don't have, what you want to get, and spend your tokens. Ideally they would also make it so if you are next to tome token exhange NPCs that you can just spend your tomes through your own interface rather than go through the 5 menus to purchase it (click on shire gear while next to Rowena's crew and it prompts you to spend the token).

To make this system smoother I would suggest tweaks to default loot and how you earn these atherial charges. There are a number of options like passing/not receiving loot/on fail rolls/by converting gear, but I would also recommend not to completely remove the RNG as the RNG does offer people a sort of fog between the grind. I /really/ believe that removing the endless hallway of RNG screwing you is important, so I believe in token systems being great and a must be added thing, but also it's nice for people not to think of every piece of gear as in "25 more runs". So a system that is always there to /fall back/ on, but still using RNG as the front runner is a great marriage of two system imo. Although for older content you can make the token system stand more center, like older content's cost slowly reduces over time so two years from now you can buy a set of dreadwyrm for like 7 runs for aetherial energy rather than 20.

(The other thing I thought using mother crystal for was making a rift/realm that would be an optional replacement to the current houses system - being an entirely instanced personal mini world like Wild Star, that you could invite people to of course, and everyone could obtain/upgrade over time).

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Originally Posted by Bacent

At the least in 4.X they mentioned they're gonna be making loot that drops only for a class that's actually in the instance, from what I remember

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Initially, I loved this idea, but have since had mixed feelings. Depending how they implement it, this could make gearing secondary jobs much more of a pain since you'd have to play them in significantly worse gear.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

At the least in 4.X they mentioned they're gonna be making loot that drops only for a class that's actually in the instance, from what I remember

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I agree with Bourne on this, that change would be cataclysmically terrible for anyone who uses more than one job on a character.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

At the least in 4.X they mentioned they're gonna be making loot that drops only for a class that's actually in the instance, from what I remember

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In the past people would take gear for their mains and their secondary jobs depending on the drop.
This will help people gear their mains faster. This also means that you might have the same drops unless someone changes his job.

Example:
BRD/MCH pants dropped this week and your ranged took them. They might drop again next week but this time someone else in your party whos second role is ranged will take them.

I can see this hurting ONLY players whos secondary jobs are outside of the group composition. But other than that, the system is great at helping gearing main roles faster.

ESO had a not too bad compromise between tokens and RNG loot.

Each boss dropped loot for you and you only. It was random. You might get something you want or not. It also put a timer on loot you obtained. The timer was 2hrs I think. During that time you could trade loot to other players that were present when it dropped. In addition, there were dailies that would award keys. You used these keys to obtain loot from 3 different loot pools. This gear wasn't obtainable in the dungeons, but had a set bonus with gear that did.

The end result was something that was random, but allowed for player interaction. Basically each boss dropped 4 things of loot, one for each player. And then the players could trade loot at the end to get something they preferred.

I still prefer a mini-token system for dungeons though. Maybe something like each completion of a particular dungeon awards that dungeon's token. Five tokens allows you to pick a piece of loot from that dungeon. RNG is daunting for those who are unlucky. Hasn't been a good system since it was introduced 18 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Each boss dropped loot for you and you only. It was random. You might get something you want or not. It also put a timer on loot you obtained. The timer was 2hrs I think. During that time you could trade loot to other players that were present when it dropped. In addition, there were dailies that would award keys. You used these keys to obtain loot from 3 different loot pools. This gear wasn't obtainable in the dungeons, but had a set bonus with gear that did.

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I mean that just sounds like personal RNG which doesn't -really- change anything except in cases where certain pieces have more demand than others. The keys aren't a compromise to me, they're just something entirely different. If I want a certain piece of gear I want -that- piece of gear, I don't think people would accept that as a solution.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

At the least in 4.X they mentioned they're gonna be making loot that drops only for a class that's actually in the instance, from what I remember

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Sounds like it could be good but how will it work?

If it's just based on jobs that enter then you might find nothing really changes.

2 dragoons in the party? Check. Let's drop a coat of maiming in the loot. But wait, both dragoons already have that item... or maybe they don't have that one but do have a better one....

Nothing then would change as it'd still be useless loot. Or would it check your equipment and armory chest and remove that item from the drop table if all eligible players in the party have it..

Or will it be weighted. If a party had 1 tank 5 casters and 2 healers would that mean a 12.5% chance a tank item will drop. While a 25% chance of a healer drop. Or a 62.5% of a casting piece?

Pretty sure most of us have been in a few of those parties especially in 24 man when virtually all the dps are the same type of class. 3 blm 2 smns or 4 brds and a mch or something. If they start weighting the loot like that could be very problematic

Then as someone mentioned earlier what if you want to gear an off class or something...

In 24 man especially usually get to a point where the piece I want drops of the second and third boss for example so if I haven't seen it. I might greed roll another piece off the last boss and be done for the week cos I really don't want to run he content yet again

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Initially, I loved this idea, but have since had mixed feelings. Depending how they implement it, this could make gearing secondary jobs much more of a pain since you'd have to play them in significantly worse gear.

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You can still roll greed on many gears and hope that the players with the specific job roll pass on the gear for another gear piece

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Originally Posted by Lokean

Big words. I feel like it distracts a lot of flaws with those statements.
...games with RNG grind have shown to have a longer shelf life than those of "instant gratification". Such as, WoW, Runescape, Diablo, and Borderlands. All of these games use RNG, even to an excessive amounts. Yet almost all of them are seen as works of art. Like it or not, RNG is not a "PoS". It has shown to work in numerous games and to extend a shelf life of a game.

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Strong words, perhaps, but the point about RNG stands. Blizzard has over done it now in Legion with RNG (legendaries, warforged, titanforged, gem sockets) and that is why the game is going through its death throes at the moment. FFXIV is about to get bigger than WoW. So maybe it would be a good time to look at some alternative solutions that award playing and time input, that is not RNG.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

ESO had a not too bad compromise between tokens and RNG loot.

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Might be worth mentioning that in ESO you could craft amazing sets and gear, without relying on RNG AT ALL. The only two pieces were head and shoulders, perhaps a coouple of accessories. The rest was really easy to get.

Something I put in another thread about alexanders loot and 24 man. basically adopt the primals loot system across all content
Here

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Originally Posted by Dzian

When it comes to loot systems in FFXIV the best one in place is the Primal system. It's almost the perfect system for 3 reasons.

1:- There's no lockouts at all. If you so chose to do so you could have cleared zurvan ex yesterday and farmed the hell out it and quite possibly got EVERY weapon and the bird by now. what are we 36 hours into the patch give or take.. no lock outs at all and yet it works. so why does all other content need these lockouts?

2:- It has working RNG which can be hugely satisfying. just opened the loot chest and there's a nice shiny new gun for your machinist. it feels great when you win that roll. and makes things a lot more interesting than just loltomes.

3:- It guarantees progression. Even if the RNG in number 2 never ever drops a weapon for your jobs it doesn't matter because you also get totems. 10 of those totems and you get your weapon guaranteed. so you still win. it's impossible to lose or not progress if you clear the content.

The only thing that stops the primal system being perfect is that those totems in number 3 take up inventory space. it would be so much better if they separated in the key items tab for example or even currency tabs...

You could easily implement a similar system in Alex without to many changes.
you could keep the rng drops from various wings turns or whatever you call em. but also add another item. lets say for example "alexandrain screw" guaranteed to get one every time you clear the fight.

all you then need is a trade in system that would for example let you trade in 10 screws for a bolt, or 10 screws for a shaft spring or crank. and once you've got your 4 shafts you can still get your body piece. even if you had to clear the content 40 times to get 40 of the screws progression would be guaranteed. (on one hand 40 sounds a lot. but on the other some weeks ive prolly done it that many just to get my weekly)

it'd also work in 24 man raids. ive done dun scaith 3 times since the patch and seen 90% of the loot hit the floor. because everyone holds there 1 roll for the same pieces.
and it gets to the point where people are running it 15-20 times a week to try and get that 1 item and making no progress at all.

add another totem item guaranteed for the clear. trade in x number of them for a piece of your choosing. bam again guaranteed progression. even in the extreme worst cases of RNG.

going forward to 4.0 I really hope they do something like this. because 2.0 was much the same. how many times did I run t12 coil for a pair of bard pants I honestly can't tell you.

They have a really great loot system in XIV and it works well. they just need to implement it across all content

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Originally Posted by ThePatron13

I mean that just sounds like personal RNG which doesn't -really- change anything except in cases where certain pieces have more demand than others. The keys aren't a compromise to me, they're just something entirely different. If I want a certain piece of gear I want -that- piece of gear, I don't think people would accept that as a solution.

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Yeah but trying to get a company from the east to move away from RNG is going to be tough.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

ESO had a not too bad compromise between tokens and RNG loot.

Each boss dropped loot for you and you only. It was random. You might get something you want or not. It also put a timer on loot you obtained. The timer was 2hrs I think. During that time you could trade loot to other players that were present when it dropped. In addition, there were dailies that would award keys. You used these keys to obtain loot from 3 different loot pools. This gear wasn't obtainable in the dungeons, but had a set bonus with gear that did.

The end result was something that was random, but allowed for player interaction. Basically each boss dropped 4 things of loot, one for each player. And then the players could trade loot at the end to get something they preferred.

I still prefer a mini-token system for dungeons though. Maybe something like each completion of a particular dungeon awards that dungeon's token. Five tokens allows you to pick a piece of loot from that dungeon. RNG is daunting for those who are unlucky. Hasn't been a good system since it was introduced 18 years ago.

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No, ESO was the very definition of RNG loot.
The "Token System" of ESO didn't guarantee anything. It gave you an RNG dice roll at a random Undaunted Shoulder Piece that could come in any of the 3 different Armor Types, with any 1 out of 8 possible traits. Sure, it was slightly narrowed down by splitting up the shoulder pieces from the dungeons within 3 different chests but that still wasn't a good token system at all, especially in comparison to FFXIV's current token system.

The loot drops were even worse because, despite Bosses having guaranteed loot drops, you failed to include the fact that bosses could drop the SAME, EXACT item as the previous boss. Mini bosses shared the same loot table as each other and Main bosses, excluding the last boss, shared theirs. The Last Boss was special in that he would be the only one that would drop Weapons and Jewelry but considering that only Sharpened Trait weapons were ever desired, due to how much better they were to any other Trait weapons, you were SoL. Even trying to trade with other players was next to impossible as most dungeons only had 1 set that was actually desired with the other 2 being subpar and the only reason people ran most dungeons (outside of the Daily dungeons) was for that set and they would charge ridiculous prices to trade the item if it was BIS.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

ESO had a not too bad compromise between tokens and RNG loot.Each boss dropped loot for you and you only. It was random. You might get something you want or not. It also put a timer on loot you obtained. The timer was 2hrs I think. During that time you could trade loot to other players that were present when it dropped. In addition, there were dailies that would award keys. You used these keys to obtain loot from 3 different loot pools. This gear wasn't obtainable in the dungeons, but had a set bonus with gear that did.
The end result was something that was random, but allowed for player interaction. Basically each boss dropped 4 things of loot, one for each player. And then the players could trade loot at the end to get something they preferred.

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Yea, no. That the game former know as Elder Scrolls Online, now Elder Trolls, is the singular epitome of RNG. Everything with the game's realm of influence was based off of rng. From which dungeons you would get for the dailies, to loot, or even if you'll get enough ore to craft the last pieve of gear you crave. Nothing in that game was free of horrendous rng. Hells, even the rng had rng with the gear system. With 9 available traits found upon gear, only one, ONE trait was viable for a dps to have. Not to mention that half the sets with in that game are utterly useless, and next to worthless. That game makes you grind endlessly for gear that will "prime out all you have" and then you try it out and then it sucks worst than a Magikarp's Z-Splash.
Moving on to the "token" system you say, it's not even a token system. You go into a dungeon, get a stupid key and turn that in. There's not collecting involved, just more rng. When you open the key you have a one in a million chance, let's say to get the Light Armor Shoulders of Grothdarr with divines, then you get a Heavy Shoulders of Slime Claw with Prosperous. Yea no thank you.

In this game there's not worrying about getting the best gear set with the best trait, just run a quick trial or raid, hope you get the drop if not, turn in the scriptures and drap them anyway.