New Death Penalty Changes - Discuss!

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Death Penalty and Raising

The introduction of instanced raids will be accompanied by a wide range of revisions to areas such as the death penalty, Raise spells, and the Return command.

Death Penalty

The penalty for being KO'd, namely the effects of Weakness and Brink of Death, will be revised as follows:

Weakness
Players who are raised will be afflicted with the Weakness status, which has the following negative effects:

• 25% HP reduction
• 25% MP reduction

Brink of Death
Players who are KO’d when under the effect of Weakness and are subsequently raised will be subjected to the Brink of Death status, which inflicts the following negative effects:

• 50% HP reduction
• 50% MP reduction
• 50% attack power reduction
• 50% magic potency reduction
• 50% defense reduction
• 50% magic defense reduction

A further penalty will apply to equipment durability for players who revive themselves via the Return command.

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Seems pretty damn fair to me.

I like it, now to just make it really challenging where you have to weigh the consequences (and from that video the dungeons might just do that!)

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

I like it, now to just make it really challenging where you have to weigh the consequences (and from that video the dungeons might just do that!)

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I'd imagine if your party gets Brink of Death during a dungeon, it's going to pretty much halt all progress (eating away at your precious 60 minutes) until it's passed.

That's what I am hoping for (well I don't WANT to die but I want the threat of dying relating to failure to exist)

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

That's what I am hoping for (well I don't WANT to die but I want the threat of dying relating to failure to exist)

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you enjoy tedious games? Why not play a fun game for a change >.>
joking aside

i like it. honestly chance of death while weaken is slim if the player is smart. But... brink of death might not be the best if you consider mobs with AOE. Like Shadow lord or Diablos. They mostly had Aoe and even if a player gets up and tries to move they die. With brink your pretty much down for the rest of the fight.
Not all death is from a failure. No matter how good you are sometimes death is unavoidable. Like getting aggro and dieing in a shot. Or dieing from aggro wafter getting raised.

even with a death penalty the game should be fun. Brink of death might cause a few people to not have fun >.> That is my only concern.

im interested in what they meant by having a durability penalty for simplying using return after you die O.o. So basically everytime u die and aren't rezzed ur durability suffers????

If so, that's an awful change. My stuff breaks too much as is.

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Originally Posted by Ventus

im interested in what they meant by having a durability penalty for simplying using return after you die O.o. So basically everytime u die and aren't rezzed ur durability suffers????

If so, that's an awful change. My stuff breaks too much as is.

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It's like asking if you would rather have loss in exp after death, or durability loss? Of course, 90% of the players would say durability, because it encourages economic growth, gil-sink, and some form of penalty to a. remove blood warping as a viable choice, and b. actually imply a real death penalty that makes since in the game.

Any way we can get some timer info on Weakness/Brink of Death? Will these remain at 3:00 a pop?

In the dungeon preview video, the party fully wiped and still managed to get to the boss with 13 minutes to spare, so I don't imagine the status effects are event-endingly bad, thankfully. I was a bit nervous that these would end up being more of a fight-ender than a necessary challenge boost.

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Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

remove blood warping as a viable choice.

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As long as death exists, bloodport will exist - it's just that with return having a 15 minute cooldown, there's no reason to want bloodport anymore. They didn't take away the means, they took away the demand - which is both smarter and more satisfying, imo.

As long as it prevents zombie-zerging, that's all we need in a death penalty - some real-time challenge boosting. A lot of the death penalties discussed by fans, especially those of WoW/FFXI, didn't encourage difficult battle in-the-moment or skillful play, but rather time sinking and fear. I'm glad to see they skipped that and went with this.

Coming back to bloodpoint not being a viable option, though? Go naked.

The changes to the death penatly gives those of use who wanted "lost experience" or something better, a "something better." Those of use who thought exp loss creates a respect of death can now say this new system creates some what respect for death while also discouraging "zombie-ing" mobs effectively due to loss of stats. I really like it, I was asking for something new and even if they ripped this off from another mmo, they did well, it fits, and I like it. Now lets get this over with and develop awesome party play chop chop! Lol just kidding-ish

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

The changes to the death penatly gives those of use who wanted "lost experience" or something better, a "something better." Those of use who thought exp loss creates a respect of death can now say this new system creates some what respect for death while also discouraging "zombie-ing" mobs effectively due to loss of stats. I really like it, I was asking for something new and even if they ripped this off from another mmo, they did well, it fits, and I like it. Now lets get this over with and develop awesome party play chop chop! Lol just kidding-ish

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again not all death is from failure. >.> really your want of challenge may end up screwing over people. I do not really see brink of death a good addition. Considering most mobs have a ranged attack or aoe.

What if we have another enamy like shadow lord. During his second stage he spams aoe.And chances arte you would die 5 times before getting to safty to raise and rest.

A tedious game is NOT a fun one.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Any way we can get some timer info on Weakness/Brink of Death? Will these remain at 3:00 a pop?

In the dungeon preview video, the party fully wiped and still managed to get to the boss with 13 minutes to spare, so I don't imagine the status effects are event-endingly bad, thankfully. I was a bit nervous that these would end up being more of a fight-ender than a necessary challenge boost.


As long as death exists, bloodport will exist - it's just that with return having a 15 minute cooldown, there's no reason to want bloodport anymore. They didn't take away the means, they took away the demand - which is both smarter and more satisfying, imo.

As long as it prevents zombie-zerging, that's all we need in a death penalty - some real-time challenge boosting. A lot of the death penalties discussed by fans, especially those of WoW/FFXI, didn't encourage difficult battle in-the-moment or skillful play, but rather time sinking and fear. I'm glad to see they skipped that and went with this.

Coming back to bloodpoint not being a viable option, though? Go naked.

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You always have to have a weapon equipped though. Maybe the more gear you wear penalty is less on each item, where-in the less gear you wear the more damage it will do to that item.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

again not all death is from failure. >.> really your want of challenge may end up screwing over people. I do not really see brink of death a good addition. Considering most mobs have a ranged attack or aoe.

What if we have another enamy like shadow lord. During his second stage he spams aoe.And chances arte you would die 5 times before getting to safty to raise and rest.

A tedious game is NOT a fun one.

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Well, isn't is safe to say that introduces more viable roles? Specifically for healers? Also, ffxi strives on the fact you have to do many, many things to actually re-do a fight. For the shadowlord, walking alll the way back to his throne-room was a tedious chore in itself. We shouldn't assume ffxiv will be the same way. The possibility that we may be easily given the opportunity to re-challenge boss's who are difficult immediately after a fight, is extremely high due to the casual essence this game is trying to capture.

"As long as it prevents zombie-zerging"

411 on zombie zerging

It been happening since ffxi when people cared too much over exp/hr.

This happen because no one wanted to wait for weakness. They used to till the exp/hr mindset. But honestly asking for game changes because of how OTHER people play. Or complain about what OTHER people do is wrong.

My issue with brink of death is due to myself. I'm not the worlds best player, nor wish to be. I play games for fun. And tend to die repeatedly. If i die i try to rest though. But here is the thing. There is no rest state in ffxiv. Least to what i know. So Pretty much I die and have to stand out of a fight for 3 min. It gets boring quick. Also there is a chance of getting hit by the mob even if your just sitting watching the fight. Like the mob going after the healer and using an aoe.

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Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

Well, isn't is safe to say that introduces more viable roles? Specifically for healers? Also, ffxi strives on the fact you have to do many, many things to actually re-do a fight. For the shadowlord, walking alll the way back to his throne-room was a tedious chore in itself. We shouldn't assume ffxiv will be the same way. The possibility that we may be easily given the opportunity to re-challenge boss's who are difficult immediately after a fight, is extremely high due to the casual essence this game is trying to capture.

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read more about the context rather the who I used as examples. they were aoe spammers with high ranged aoe. To add mobs in this game have long distant ranged attacks. Think of it like partying i the yhotar jungle and the mandies do an aoe damage move instead of sleep. But use it under a similar rate. Mandies did aoe sleep alot sometimes 4 times a fight. Pretty much this will skrew everyone over since you can't really avoid AoE.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Any way we can get some timer info on Weakness/Brink of Death? Will these remain at 3:00 a pop?

In the dungeon preview video, the party fully wiped and still managed to get to the boss with 13 minutes to spare, so I don't imagine the status effects are event-endingly bad, thankfully. I was a bit nervous that these would end up being more of a fight-ender than a necessary challenge boost.


As long as death exists, bloodport will exist - it's just that with return having a 15 minute cooldown, there's no reason to want bloodport anymore. They didn't take away the means, they took away the demand - which is both smarter and more satisfying, imo.

As long as it prevents zombie-zerging, that's all we need in a death penalty - some real-time challenge boosting. A lot of the death penalties discussed by fans, especially those of WoW/FFXI, didn't encourage difficult battle in-the-moment or skillful play, but rather time sinking and fear. I'm glad to see they skipped that and went with this.

Coming back to bloodpoint not being a viable option, though? Go naked.

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Also, I said "viable choice" which stand for exactly what you said, "taking away the demand". It's still a choice, and will always be, but it's not a preferred choice, because of the 15 minutes, and the durability loss.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

read more about the context rather the who I used as examples. they were aoe spammers with high ranged aoe.

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And I'm just using your example with a solution involving the same example, example being any situation. AoE spammers or not, difficulty is something MMO's are lacking, and that implies if FFXIV uses a situation with huge AoE spammers, therefor increasing the viability of a healing roll, which in in-turn promotes higher party dynamics.

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Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

Also, I said "viable choice" which stand for exactly what you said, "taking away the demand". It's still a choice, and will always be, but it's not a preferred choice, because of the 15 minutes, and the durability loss.

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I did figure that's what you meant, but there was a little wiggle room for interpretation, so I stuffed a comment into it. Apologies!

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Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

You always have to have a weapon equipped though. Maybe the more gear you wear penalty is less on each item, where-in the less gear you wear the more damage it will do to that item.

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I hadn't thought of that possibility, but armed with that knowledge I'll be sure to always carry a broken bronze needle in case of emergency.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I did figure that's what you meant, but there was a little wiggle room for interpretation, so I stuffed a comment into it. Apologies!


I hadn't thought of that possibility, but armed with that knowledge I'll be sure to always carry a broken bronze needle in case of emergency.

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I just made a topic about that here.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...337#post228337

I'm curious to find out what the dev's do to combat that. I couldn't imagine them damaging any gear you have in your inventory 0.0 lol

So... is that thing where you can't even attack after your third death gone? I don't see how this Brink of Death is so terrible. It sounds similar to what was in the game already.

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Originally Posted by Baelari

So... is that thing where you can't even attack after your third death gone? I don't see how this Brink of Death is so terrible. It sounds similar to what was in the game already.

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I think it's good. It's possible there are more stages to the amount of deaths you incur. It makes since, and it works, which is all that matters to me.

This penalty is not even that harsh, lol esp comparing to FFXI. With R2, 60 sec weakness is nothing, only thing i say would even make a difference is that it will prevent players from returning often after KO due to gear dmg, for some fighting with red gear don't matter anyway lol. But this overall "Death Penalty" will atleast make those players that charge in without thinking think twice.

I like it. And it's going to really matter in a dungeon with a 60 min timer. You won't have time for dying.

Also consider, we don't know how the return command works in a dungeon, if a player wipe occurs, that might a different beast together.

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Originally Posted by Ventus

im interested in what they meant by having a durability penalty for simplying using return after you die O.o. So basically everytime u die and aren't rezzed ur durability suffers????

If so, that's an awful change. My stuff breaks too much as is.

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If you're still butthurt about stuff getting broken too fast you should stop using overranked crap. If you use gear thats for your rank and class it takes forever now to break...I can literally use my weapons on classes for a week now before they need a repair if not longer and armor is even worse...I might have to repair them once every 2-3 weeks...