2.2 has sucked all the fun out of the game...

Hi all

I just wanted to share my big disappointment of the new patch and how much of a negative impacts it has had on people in my FC.

We're a medium size FC, have been playing since day one and have gone through most of the content at our pace (Coil, XM primals, Medium FC House, gathering/craftings, leveling alts).
At the end of 2.1, we were at a very comfortable balance between endgame progression, caping our tomes, leveling other classes, helping FC members and bonding with other FC.
We really enjoyed the game and we were looking forward to the new patch.

But 2.2 came out with it's major focus on grinding and nothing has been the same since them...


- Zodiac weapon quest:
This is the main thing that turned off people... The grind is just way too overwhelming.
Obviously people want to go for that new relic but the RNG element is just unrewarding. We haven't spent a lot of time of it but the hours we did spend gave us very little progression at all and were very frustrating because it's just not fun to grind fates that provide no challenge and no sense of accomplishment.
The book part of the quest is all frustrating because of the Myth grind (1300 myth * 9 books Oo) and again the mob/leves/dungeon/fate grinding element.
People are just not willing to go througn such boring work and we've had multiple members quitting the game because they just feel 2.2 sucked all the fun from the game.
The rest (me included) just don't do them at all in the hope that it'll get seriously nerfed soon...
So what does it leave us to upgrade our weapon? Levi XM and Second Coil. Problem is, we're now too few at that endgame level to run as an FC and we rely on PF which again builds frustration because of "experience people only", "must have killed it", and just the randomness of the party members in the PF group.


- Master crafting recipes: after getting few crafts to make 3 stars, it felt very unrewarding as well. Only LTW, WVR and ARM got new end product and all other crafts received only housing recipes and intermediate crafting mats. Also, given the time effort and money required to reach the stat cap, it all feels like a wasted effort.
There will never be a market for 3 star housing because they're ridiculously hard to make for no benfit at all. The crafting bench would be cool to make but if lvl 50 crafter could benefit from it since the 3 stars take a lot of CP. But, no only lvl40 and under can benefit from it even though nothing requires it even remotely. Heck, I leveled all my crafts with just HQ gear (no melds) and cheap food I could buy from vendors...
ilvl 90 gear can be a decent upgrade but they'll always be unreasonably expensive and people who can afford them, can craft them... The rest is just glamours/minions that again take too much effort for what it's worth.
I think that requirement for 3 stars were good but it proved to be very unrewarding in the end.

- New Gathering node: So I've been putting new the ores on the market but NQ is just worthless and no one will ever buy them since you NEED HQ mats to have a chance to craft 3 stars (which is good though). HQ ones don't sell because only hardcore crafter can use them and most of them are already self sufficient.

- The new dungeons: They are cool, especially Lost city. I'll take time to get the new soldiery gear but the grind for it is the same as we've experienced since 2.1 with myth so no issues here.

- Gardening is cool, probably the feature I enjoy most in 2.2


tldr:
2.2 is not fun, made many of my friends quit, and I'm thinking about quitting too.
Make the grind long through weekly locks or other mechanism that regulates progression but not from RNG and ridiculous requirements that only hardcore players would abide to.
Make it somehow interesting or that serves a purpose in bonding more with the game/universe, and something fair to all players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojydNb3Lrrs

Not to mention the story quests were utter crap.

Let's perfume chocobos and play hide-and-go seek, throw in Leviathan as a last-minute addition with a pathetic amount of dialogue.

The only thing not fun about 2.2 imo is the fact that you have to party finder everything. I find it easier to DF dungeons, with party finder you have to set aside like 2-3 hours for the run. The first thing I wanted to do in 2.2 was Leviathan EX and can only party find it >.>.

Just disappointment. I can wait for patches because I love this game, but it just made the game smaller.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

So what does it leave us to upgrade our weapon? Levi XM and Second Coil. Problem is, we're now too few at that endgame level to run as an FC and we rely on PF which again builds frustration because of "experience people only", "must have killed it", and just the randomness of the party members in the PF group.

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Levi is super easy, probably the easiest primal. Just grab whoever is on in your fc and pf the rest to get some practice.

I agree with Coil, I hate having force statics of 8 players. It's hard to find players that are capable, willing, and fit your schedule. I also agree with Fate grinding, boring as hell.

everything should be in the DF even coil, right now coil just lets a premade group queue.
if SE was this game a hub game go all out make it all DF keep it consistent. no reason for me to leave my inn room anyways.
i rather wipe alot then not do something at all atleast i learn what to do, which this game teaches nothing other then grind to 50.

myth grind is stupid now seeing how its entry level gear the new darklight now.

zodiac weapons another time wasting & massive boring as hell grind, i rather have them do a void watch NM & abyssea NM or magian moogle trials things to upgrade your relics. atleast that was a fun grind not standing around waiting for fates then hope the RNG works for you.
anyone who says they love the way to get atma then bash FFXI HNM's is crazy because its the same thing. you wait around & hope the RNG is on your side.
abyssea & magian mog trials you have something to work for and could plan ahead, kill stuff, get items/ key items, pop nm's get drops even though there was still RNG you 99% of the time got somthing.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Levi is super easy, probably the easiest primal. Just grab whoever is on in your fc and pf the rest to get some practice.

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Yes it's easy, I'd probably put it second easiest after Garuda XM but I'm not the issue here. I've cleared Levi and don't need practice anymore but it's not the case for everyone. There are still lots of people in my server that haven't cleared Titan XM (even with the Echo).

I'm having fun

http://media.giphy.com/media/14tFISDCGJyIjS/giphy.gif

Yeah echo buff doesn't really help much in extremes. Having more dps in Ifrit isn't necessarily a good thing and titan you still need to dodge.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Yeah echo buff doesn't really help much in extremes. Having more dps in Ifrit isn't necessarily a good thing and titan you still need to dodge.

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Echo buff makes titan go from one person dieing making it unwinnable, to needing maybe 3 people dead to make it unwinnable. It's significant in a fight that has so many instant kills and can cause some drama between team members due to latency issues or the game just deciding it wants you dead this time. Just being able to keep going instead of having to give up at any mistakes makes it infinitely more tolerable as my FC was finally able to stomach the fight and beat it.

For myth grind... do duty roulettes only and you're guaranteed to afford a book every 4-5 days... 9 books guaranteed in 45 days or less.
For soldiery grind... duty roulettes and you cap in 3-4 days...
Just need to pace it instead of trying to cap soldiery first day after reset, and complete the book part of the zodiak quest in as short time as possible...

Coil in DF, already known that it was premade only for a short time and will allow solo and partial soon.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Echo buff makes titan go from one person dieing making it unwinnable, to needing maybe 3 people dead to make it unwinnable. It's significant in a fight that has so many instant kills and can cause some drama between team members due to latency issues or the game just deciding it wants you dead this time. Just being able to keep going instead of having to give up at any mistakes makes it infinitely more tolerable as my FC was finally able to stomach the fight and beat it.

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Er... It was already winnable with 1-2 people dead. How do you think people sell the fight? You only need 3 dps and 1 tank. Anything else is optional (since healers do not contribute to damage). Now the setup changes to... Exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Er... It was already winnable with 1-2 people dead. How do you think people sell the fight? You only need 3 dps and 1 tank. Anything else is optional (since healers do not contribute to damage). Now the setup changes to... Exactly the same.

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Well yes it's winnable with 1-2 people dead if your entire team has practiced the fight to death and overgeared. Which is kinda not the case with people that haven't cleared it yet.

The reason that fight was so frustrating with an FC that needed to practice it and plays maybe 3-4 days a week is that before if one person died you can't continue period and you don't get to see anything that comes afterward. With the echo it's easier to continue onward and actually get a chance to experience the latter parts of the fight instead of constantly hitting brick walls due to new mechanics being introduced and wasting a bunch of valuable time on one fight when there is much more stuff that needs to be done in-game. Not to mention the echo lets you get to the "Good" parts of the fight while making the stuff you've done a million times already more tolerable, kind of like fast forwarding through the intro sequence of a TV series.

Thanks to 2.2, I know there's something called "Eorzea Time."

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

made many of my friends quit, and I'm thinking about quitting too.

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Originally Posted by MrEzekial

It's so much for just for the sole purpose of wasting time. Lots of my friends that I play with have quit over this patch, especially the atma part. They haven't even gotten to the myth grind.

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I'm sure this is the absolute truth. Because we don't hear "A lot of my friends quit. I'm about to quit too," after EVERY SINGLE PATCH.

And...really? Complaining about a video game wasting time?

I agree with the OP. New content is fun. Levi is an amazing fight. Turn 6 and 7 (I haven't done past that yet) are really well made, and I think they're fun. Moogle is a bit too RNG for my liking, but it's still a decent fight. New dungeons are great, but this grind... It's so much for just for the sole purpose of wasting time. Lots of my friends that I play with have quit over this patch, especially the atma part. They haven't even gotten to the myth grind.

I'm not getting what you are saying. Mathematical example:
Assume titan's heart stays out for 1 minute and has 40,000 HP.
Therefore you need a total of 40000/60= 666 DPS sustained throughout the minute
Let's say a DPS has a dps of 200.
Then 3 dps + a tank that does 66 dps kills the heart at the instant that he would jump.
If you had 4 dps and 2 tanks that do 100 dps each, then you would have 1000 total dps and would clear the phase in 40 seconds.
So everyone alive= normal time (about the time he is about to drop bombs).
1 dps dead= still overkill
2 dps dead (second one died halfway into the phase)= still kill
2 dps dead, 1 tank dead, remaining dps doing 300 dps each = still kill

Now account for echo:
Max echo=125%dps
Take the 1000 dps example->becomes 1250 dps. You finish... 10 seconds sooner...
If total dps was less:
Say 4 DPS @ 150 dps, 2 tanks@75 dps
Becomes->750 dps, which is winnable w/o buff
1 dps dead: 600 dps, winnable with buff
2 dps dead: 450*1.25<666, still unwinnable w/o buff
So in other words, unless people were simply not pulling their weight before (titan is a DPS oriented fight) then echo wouldn't affect you. If you had a party that could clear it before with a few dead (note the example of using 200 dps, which is not high at all), then it literally doesn't change your completion status. Only if you had terrible dps from the start (nothing to do with mechanics) does this help you. So I don't see what the issue is.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

I'm sure this is the absolute truth. Because we don't hear "A lot of my friends quit. I'm about to quit too," after EVERY SINGLE PATCH.

And...really? Complaining about a video game wasting time?

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you wanna waste time being bored?
you wanna waste time having fun?

For me the disappointment was absolute takeover of RNG and over-grind.

Coil RNG was bad enough for those who were attempting to gear up with lockouts, but now that Solidery gear is effectively a gimp version, all gear in 110 range is under a total lockdown behind Twintania and Coil 8 and even after words you're having to pray even harder to the RNG gods that you get a drop (or a lot).

They've effectively made Masterwork Gear more difficult to get than Second Coil gear due to the grinding requirement beforehand, for a lesser overall performance to Coil gear for many pieces, and have left no alternatives for those outside Coil Raids to gear on, except to sit in unfinished Masterwork Gear until even the finished versions become obsolete.

This patch was incredibly walled off to the majority of players. Leviathan Extreme: Have to complete the other two extremes (And once again Titan is a severe bottle-neck to any group with so much as one person lagging.) Levi-hard: gives no rewards. Battle on the Big Bridge: Gives no rewards. Masterwork Crafts: Require several million gil investment for LAST patch returns. (Where ideal, THIS is where we would be getting our ilvl100 gear from.)

It overcompensated on the whole 'nothing to do' crowd, and now everything is at least three months away for the absolute baseline of performance upgrades.

We'll see if this is a long-term change or not, but everyone in my FC has something to be upset about this patch more, than they are cheerful about other things. That's not a good sign.

We're not having fun with this. There are ways to make long-term investments entertaining, and this wasn't it.

But why would you need 110 gear outside of the the raid that supplies it? Makes sense that you get gear in the place that you will need it in. And lol at the part of using gil for ilvl 110 gear. Gil sellers would have a field day.

I've never seen a thread like this before...

This is how things are going to play out:

1. You are not really quitting, and you are just letting out some frustrations. Your friends really didn't even quit either, you just keep talking to each other, "Man, we should quit." But end up not.
2. You are going to see people in here respond how no one cares if you leave or not. You will argue with them.
3. You go back to playing and create another thread about threatening to quit after the next patch.

In the end though, no one, absolutely no one cares if you leave. If this patch "Sucked all the fun out of the game" then you weren't going to be around much longer anyway. So, dramatic.
Like everyone else, I don't care if you leave or not. Just kinda fun to post in these types of threads everyonce in a while and let the quitter know that we know they are full of it most of the time and if they do go through with quitting, whoopie doo.

This patch felt one step right, 2 steps behind. The books are a wonderful addition for long-time content, but they are gated behind the worst mmorpg design of all time (FATE atma garbage)

Levi exe is fun, but it's basically the only primal people do. They made Mog useless by giving him a level 100 reward. Greg fight also felt like a waste, sure, all the reference were hilarious, but it was really a waste of resources. No difficulty, no reward. It should have been on par with Ultima-Ex when it came to difficulty. And maybe give people a nice memento, even if just vanity stuff (Greg armor? Earing? Minion? Anything!).

And yeah, crafters kinda got the middle fingers. A lot of stuff to craft! Good! Hard stuff to craft! Even better, the market won't be crowed like before... but then they killed it by making crafted gear ridicule underpowered.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

They made Mog useless by giving him a level 100 reward.

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Hmm... Not sure if trolling.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

But why would you need 110 gear outside of the the raid that supplies it? Makes sense that you get gear in the place that you will need it in. And lol at the part of using gil for ilvl 110 gear. Gil sellers would have a field day.

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Who said 110? I said 100. Have fun with that reading comprehension.

And the point about 110 gear outside of the dungeon is to allow entry for those who are trying to get INTO the raid. Having it the way it is now puts too much emphasis on ilvl, exacerbated by the requirement of ilvl on raids. This mechanic, the way it stands, fragments the playerbase rather than unifies it - all for the sake of pride and bragging rights.

You say "It can be done in ilvl90." But those who have achieved that are the absolute best of the best when it comes to this game - to the point that one such group was selling Raven Nevermore runs in 1.23. You can't judge average player base performance and gear requirements on the absolute best players in the game, that's idiotic. And Coil 8 has a very, very limited number of players clearing it legitimately. (2 groups as of April first, remember that.) And all 110 Armor pieces from Masterwork is locked behind that.

But all of that is moot - endgame should have been more expansive by this point and it's not. So the playerbase is being punished by the poor priority planning of the development crew.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Hmm... Not sure if trolling.

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Hurr hurr

Considering the ammount of problems you have to get through to get the reward (Memorize the fight, find a party, win it, win the RNG)... yeah? It's not even BiS since it's a level 100 item and you can get level 100 items with tomes. Ultimately it will be discharged for other items in the same patch.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

We'll see if this is a long-term change or not, but everyone in my FC has something to be upset about this patch more, than they are cheerful about other things. That's not a good sign.

We're not having fun with this. There are ways to make long-term investments entertaining, and this wasn't it.

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Really? EVERYONE? Every? Single? Person? Are you SURE you aren't exaggerating?

Also: YOU'RE not having fun with this. Not we. You speak for yourself. And that's fine. If it isn't fun for you, it isn't fun for you.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Really? EVERYONE? Every? Single? Person? Are you SURE you aren't exaggerating?

Also: YOU'RE not having fun with this. Not we. You speak for yourself. And that's fine. If it isn't fun for you, it isn't fun for you.

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I have a small FC. I can speak for twelve people I speak with regularly. Again, everyone in my FC has at least one major thing to complain about when it comes to this patch.

It's rare that I speak beyond myself, when I do I take care that I'm speaking about what I know of. Please stop making personal attacks against people you don't know.

When I say we I speak only for those I know closely enough to do so. I know many can't make that sort of call about their FC, but that's the advantage of a small group of friends who play closely together.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

You say "It can be done in ilvl90." But those who have achieved that are the absolute best of the best when it comes to this game - to the point that one such group was selling Raven Nevermore runs in 1.23. You can't judge average player base performance and gear requirements on the absolute best players in the game, that's idiotic. And Coil 8 has a very, very limited number of players clearing it legitimately. (2 groups as of April first, remember that.) And all 110 Armor pieces from Masterwork is locked behind that.

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So what you're saying is, only good players can get good gear by clearing difficult fights. I have no problem with that. And 1 week after launch we didn't have any groups on T5 so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. In fact, you make yourself look like an idiot who expects every piece of content to be cleared by everyone by the end of the first week.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Hurr hurr

Considering the ammount of problems you have to get through to get the reward (Memorize the fight, find a party, win it, win the RNG)... yeah? It's not even BiS since it's a level 100 item and you can get level 100 items with tomes. Ultimately it will be discharged for other items in the same patch.

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All other level 100 gear is progression locked. So...

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

So what you're saying is, only good players can get good gear by clearing difficult fights. I have no problem with that. And 1 week after launch we didn't have any groups on T5 so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. In fact, you make yourself look like an idiot who expects every piece of content to be cleared by everyone by the end of the first week..

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Again, putting words into my mouth. You need to stop that. It's not even worth correcting you as you're making me doubt your credibility to actually reading and comprehending the complaints being made.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Again, putting words into my mouth. You need to stop that. It's not even worth correcting you as you're making me doubt your credibility to actually reading and comprehending the complaints being made.

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It's pretty obvious that they want the hardest content only clearable by the best players. If there are ways to get gear to outside of the raid, then you are allowing players to compensate lack of skill with gear, which clearly (based on this patch) is not what they are trying to accomplish.

It's pretty dumb how you have to do coil to get i110. The items needed to upgrade should drop elsewhere. 1/30 rare HM dungeon drop or something. (not 1/100. That's stupidly low)

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

It's pretty dumb how you have to do coil to get i110. The items needed to upgrade should drop elsewhere. 1/30 rare HM dungeon drop or something. (not 1/100. That's stupidly low)

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I don't understand why it can't be a rare drop from an extremely difficult Treasure hunt or something. The system already exists and they just need to tune it to be challenging for 8 players around ilvl90 to complete for the loot, then they can have their precious RNG as well, and the Treasure Hunts would have a lot of people doing them.

Point being, there is existing elements in the game for SE to have provided difficulty for worthy reward, and they really did cop out by making it just Coil.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I don't understand why it can't be a rare drop from an extremely difficult Treasure hunt or something. The system already exists and they just need to tune it to be challenging for 8 players around ilvl100 to complete for the loot, then they can have their precious RNG as well, and the Treasure Hunts would have a lot of people doing them.

Point being, there is existing elements in the game for SE to have provided difficulty for worthy reward, and they really did cop out by making it just Coil.

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Ah much better.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Ah much better.

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You just can't seem to not twist my words... can't you speak for yourself?

After someone just gloated that Coil can be done at ilvl 90, I feel as if I've made an appropriate gauging of the difficulty for these hunts.

Note that I specifically mean for Upgrade items, which means the 3 months it takes to grind out a full set of ilvl100 items through Solidarity tomes is still in place.

Ideally, I'd like some adjustments to Coil loot as well to make it more reliable for those who'd rather just Raid, especially given the lockout. But I'm caught somewhere between a token system and reworking the algorithms to only drop loot for attending Jobs as far as suggestions go.

For the sake of conversation, which would you prefer?

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

It's pretty obvious that they want the hardest content only clearable by the best players. If there are ways to get gear to outside of the raid, then you are allowing players to compensate lack of skill with gear, which clearly (based on this patch) is not what they are trying to accomplish.

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They should take it from Blizzard who's said that this isn't a sustainable business model. When you alienate all but 5-10% of the player population from experiencing new content by making it inaccessible, you're not only wasting resources as a company, but potentially losing subscribers who feel like they aren't getting anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

made many of my friends quit

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I can never tell when people say this, if it's true or not. It's like, "Hey I'm leaving and 5 other friends are leaving too!" I get the person in question is leaving but the other people he is referring to, are they "truly" leaving? lol

God damn people. It has only been two weeks since this content has come out. I'm sorry that this patch added something for the "top 5-10%". Well we sat back and waited through 2.1. Stop being a unique snowflake.

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Originally Posted by Heroicbandit

They should take it from Blizzard who's said that this isn't a sustainable business model. When you alienate all but 5-10% of the player population from experiencing new content by making it inaccessible, you're not only wasting resources as a company, but potentially losing subscribers who feel like they aren't getting anywhere.

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This. Stroking the egos of the few to cockblock a larger group of people leads to resentment. There's reasonable pacing mechanisms, but 2.2 is not it.

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Originally Posted by Gold_Jacobson

1. You are not really quitting, and you are just letting out some frustrations. Your friends really didn't even quit either, you just keep talking to each other, "Man, we should quit." But end up not.

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Normally people don't get up one day and decide to quit, its something that happens over time as their patience is pushed to the limit.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people quit in this patch, people were already fed up of the lock outs of coil as well as the huge RNG, but in pre 2.2 you had other options to gear up.

Now everything at end game is RNG, weather it be Atma, Tome gear upgrades or Coil2, even Levi has a secondary RNG item built in just to hammer it in even more.

I can understand they want to make content which last a while, but I really don't believe relying on RNG is the best way of going about that, nor is forcing people to do content (FATE) which they don't want to partake in.

I thought SE learnt this lesson in 1.0 with the absurd Primal drops, Darklight and RNG in Hamlet, which they got so much flak about on the forums and still they are making the same old mistakes.

I agree with what other say above, the tome gear upgrades should have come from somewhere else, nothing easy mind you, it should have been in the vein of the relic questline, add more boss monsters such as Chimera and Hydra, they had the golden opportunity to make Greg a very hard encounter and have him drop the upgrade materials, but nope they made him laughably easy and offer zero replay value.

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Originally Posted by Awrini

God damn people. It has only been two weeks since this content has come out. I'm sorry that this patch added something for the "top 5-10%". Well we sat back and waited through 2.1. Stop being a unique snowflake.

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you mean "its been 3 years 7 months people, SE still dont know what to do with this game. ".
constantly pushing ilvl gap every 3 months is not good its just a gear treadmill that mask having lame content.