You coming in and immediately going to bat for the people who were using this exploit makes sense when you freely admit to having 5+ characters who only ever run crystal tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Starting to notice a pattern about the people who defend this and are asking for the system to be reworked.
I guess I'm glad you can enjoy never having anything but crystal tower while Ivalice and Nier were 2 hour queues per duty when I tried to do those for the first time.
What a nice community that loves to have a million alts but lets old content sit with abysmally long queue times because they think it would ruin the optimal farm pattern on their 10th alt character to fill in and let new people experience it.
Alliance Raid Now iLvl Locked, Why??
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10-16-2023, 03:32 AMVerdeLuck
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10-16-2023, 03:36 AMBoblawblahWait, do you think that not unlocking Raids is exploiting the system?Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
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10-16-2023, 03:39 AMVerdeLuckI wouldn't say that situation is exploiting but someone who refuses to unlock or run anything but Crystal Tower on a half dozen alts coming into a thread to defend the honor of random people who were exploiting the queues to the detriment of other players?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
That's extremely suspicious. -
10-16-2023, 03:51 AMnivadaYes, it goes against the spirit why higher ilvl'es for job's where introduced, to prevent ilvl cheesing to only get crystal tower, so other raids can appear more in alliance raid roulletes. Purposfully not unlocking other raids to only get ct would fall under exploiting the system too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
They should really add in that you should have unlocked all alliance raids you currently can unlock with your msq progression too. -
10-16-2023, 04:58 AMPyurBlueWhat thread are you reading?Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
I wouldn't consider playing by the rules to be an exploit. If SE really wanted to make as many people as possible available for queues, they just force unlock the raids.Quote:
Originally Posted by nivada
Choosing not to unlock content for any reason is just playing the game as it allows itself to be played. While there may be complications that arise from this, that's more on SE than on players. -
10-16-2023, 05:26 AMBaxcelGuess it's time to start phase 2 of fixing Alliance Roulette.. lock the roulette so that unless you have all 3 raids unlocked for your level you can't que into it..Quote:
Originally Posted by nivada
50 need all 3 crystal towers to que
60 need all Void Ark and below to que
And so on so that by lv90 you need to have unlocked all Alliance raids or the roulette is locked for you..
After that we can place a MSQ check on it.. might need to make it so players can't party with free trial for the roulette to stop the "ill just que with an alt to force tower" BS that was being spouted when the fix was announced.. if it gets to bad again guess we'll just have to make AR solo que only -
10-16-2023, 05:31 AMBoblawblahlol, can you imagine? New players aren't able to take advantage of CT roulette because they can't possibly have it all unlocked, so the whole point of roulettes become well..pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxcel
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10-16-2023, 05:58 AMBaxcelWhy wouldn't they be able to do crystal tower? It's required by story you have to be lv50 to do it and you do all 3 one after the other.. so they would have access to it an once they've done all 3 the roulette would unlock until they were lv60 at which point they'd need to unlock void ark chain..Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
How do you get that they couldn't do crystal tower from that? -
10-16-2023, 06:01 AMJojoyaI didn't say they only run CT. I said that's the only one they've ever run and most of them have run it exactly once - for the MSQ requirement. They haven't stepped foot into an Alliance raid since.Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
I don't run Alliance Roulette on any of my characters. If I go into an Alliance raid it's to keep a friend company and it's on this character 95% of the time, which has unlocked all of them. Whether we do it via roulette or direct queue is up to the friend.
I'm not stopping anyone from experiencing anything. Nor am I allowing them to force me into content that I did not find an enjoyable experience.
What I was doing is pointing out the various situations that could occur leading to an Alliance ending up in CT. It only takes one player out of 24 - and that is SE's fault for setting up a roulette that spans 5 different raids across 41 job levels.
I've said it before. They need to give CT it's own roulette because it is the most common denominator as the only mandatory Alliance raid. That will leave the other Alliance roulette to those players that enjoy Alliance raids as optional content.
At what point did I defend anyone using the ilvl cheese?Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
All I said was that it is difficult to prove that any Alliance in CT ended up there because someone was using the ilvl cheese and not because there was a second player that might caused the Alliance to end up in CT for one of numerous other reasons. That's not defending anything. That's pointing out the reality of the situation.
Seriously, both sides in this discussion are whacked. There are solutions available but no one wants to use them because of "principle".
Get gear appropriate to your job level. That's the expected player behavior in MMORPGs. Your problem is solved.
If you don't like the possibility of ending up in a raid you don't like, then create your own roulette by selecting 5 from those you do like then let the game pick which of the 5 you're dumped into. Your problem is solved.
Or don't and be miserable for the sake of the "princlple".
They're assuming a change to the roulette that forces players to have every Alliance raid at or below their highest job level unlocked. If someone was level 60 with only CT unlocked, they would be prevented from using the roulette to level an alt job that may not be 60 yet. Yet unless they've completed the 3.0 MSQ, they can't unlock Mhach and that would effectively prevent them for queuing for the roulette for any reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxcel
What's being ignored is that the roulette is not the only way to get into an Alliance raid. You can direct queue as well. No one is going to be prevented from doing CT that needs it for MSQ.
But of course if people start direct queueing because they've only got CT unlocked, that leave a good possibility that those queueing for a roulette are going to get dumped in CT to fill the Alliance for the player that is queuing directly.
Considering the bored trolls in this game, I imagine that's already started happening for the lulz. -
10-16-2023, 06:22 AMBoblawblahNo, you're correct, my bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxcel
That said, I'm not convinced forcing everyone to unlock every raid would work. I know me personally, I'd simply stop doing the raid roulette. I have no interest in some of the raids, and never want to do them (Eden for one). If that means that I'm locked out of the roulette, that sucks, but I'll take that over having to do content I don't want to. -
10-16-2023, 06:24 AMToutatisPunishment isn’t the way to go. New players have a lot of content to complete before they can reach endgame and what you are asking takes a lot of extra time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxcel
Also when buying a story skip (It’s also possible to buy an xp boost without a story skip), only MSQ is unlocked and it takes a while to unlock the rest of the content. Most players who buy that want to reach endgame first (though for me it was an alt char on an EU dc for pvp, Blue and deep dungeons with friends). Basic things such as retainers, glamours, chocobo battle, chocobo bag, aesthetician, extremes, all other raids are locked and require running all sorts of quests.
Quite frankly, I found it a bit discouraging at first. I slowly unlocked all possible raids until the end of ShB (except Nier 3 for health reasons) but it took me 2 months yet getting to lvl 90 only took 3 days and it’s not on even on a preferred world. I found myself locked out of roulette the week after I finished unlocking the raids. Doing the raid stories, waiting in queue (though that was not very long even back then, 20 mins at most, it adds up when it’s for all raids) and the raid themselves takes a lot of time.
It’s easy for veterans with one character to unlock a raid not even every six months or so and complain, it’s a lot more work for a new player or character to unlock everything. With the xbox players arriving soon and then Dawntrail, there’s going to be a lot of new players. Most of them will likely end up on preferred worlds too with a huge xp boost on top of other xp items and fc boost. Locking them out of roulette, and it’s even worse if they paid SE money to get a skip, isn’t the way to go.
iLvl should be simply tied to MSQ progress (that also implies that you’ve reached the corresponding lvl on at least one job).
For the rest, SE could provide incentives such as a mount or guaranteed minion for unlocking a raid series on top of making the questlines more easily identifiable (your map is filled with blue markers and nothing distinguishes AR quests). Some people don’t even k know there are ARs other than CT. -
10-16-2023, 06:42 AMJojoyaForcing everyone to unlock every raid could even lead to a large number of players quitting the game. It's a situation where players start fearing the slippery slope has arrived. If they're going to make X content mandatory when it wasn't in the past, what will be next? Will everyone be forced to do EX trials? PvP? Variant dungeons?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Have too many pieces of mandatory content in what's regarded as a theme park MMO and players are driven away. It already holds back growth in the player population. Some interested in the game don't play because the MSQ is mandatory but they don't care about story, they just want to kill raid bosses. They're not going to pay extra money to avoid the mandatory requirements. If the MSQ wasn't mandatory, the game would have seen far more growth during the WoW exodus (though it's debatable how much would have been retained long term).
I still think making CT mandatory was a bad move, though unavoidable with the direction they decided to take G'raha Tia's story. I don't hate him as a character but I still haven't seen any compelling reason to necessitate him being a Scion instead of leaving him as he was on the First. But they did it with CT and now some players want them to do it with the rest of the Alliance raids for their convenience. What will SE do?
The problem with that is the player is then locked out of doing the roulette on other jobs they are leveling that are lower than their MSQ progress. Can't wear 175 gear on a level 53 job even when the player has completed the 3.3 MSQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutatis
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10-16-2023, 07:14 AMToutatislol now I remember why I suggested a double check in my other posts. Check both lvl and MSQ progress and go for the lower of the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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10-18-2023, 07:56 PMiiOmarSP
Reading through all of this was, quite the interesting read
Realistically, locking it to story progression and what you have unlocked is the best option as opposed to being locked to your current job level, but I don’t see any valid reason as to WHY anyone wouldn’t want to have better equipment by the time they level up every 10 or so levels, other than wanting to only enforce a specific raid series or to impose a challenge on themselves. -
10-18-2023, 08:02 PMSaraideCurious use of the slipperly slope argument. Why do you think the next logical step is to make ex trials mandatory?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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10-18-2023, 11:25 PMTomsYoungerBro
This was a fantastic change. I finally actually want to do Alliance raid roulette. Sure, you still get CT here or there, but it isn't 95%+ of the time now.
If you want to do the roulette so bad, just queue up as another job, or select from 5 for a "randomness" feel. Or idk, maybe actually start playing the game XD.
Edit: also if its just ilvl locked and you are level 90, just buy cheap level 90 crafted gear. Problem solved :) -
10-19-2023, 12:10 AMToutatisI used to get Ivalice raids regularly. Now all I get except 1 time City of Mhach is CT and Aglaia.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
It’s a game, people should be able to queue on the job(s) they like. Also, if overleveled one has obviously been playing the game.Quote:
If you want to do the roulette so bad, just queue up as another job, or select from 5 for a "randomness" feel. Or idk, maybe actually start playing the game XD.
it’s cheap only because we’re at the end of an expansion. This gear, which renders all other gear you get playing the game useless, is initially meant to get you in the new savage tier and shouldn’t be needed to run low level ARs. Overgearing shouldn’t be a requirement.Quote:
Edit: also if its just ilvl locked and you are level 90, just buy cheap level 90 crafted gear. Problem solved :)
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10-19-2023, 12:26 AMTomsYoungerBroHeavy X to doubt on that one or confirmation bias. Ilvl lock would only increase your 60+ raids you are getting, not decrease.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutatis
Then we should just remove all ilvl requirements on content then? Who cares if my scholar is only 620, let me into p9s >.<!! Ilvl locks are in the game everywhere. If you are level 90, get level 90 gear. Simple.Quote:
It’s a game, people should be able to queue on the job(s) they like. Also, if overleveled one has obviously been playing the game.
It's only necessary to run the low level ARs if you decided to Max out the game very early. If you do the story, you'll get access to free gear that will get you back into that content. Someone at 90 in HW is clearly doing roulettes, so they have to have some form of gil accumulated surely?Quote:
it’s cheap only because we’re at the end of an expansion. This gear, which renders all other gear you get playing the game useless, is initially meant to get you in the new savage tier and shouldn’t be needed to run low level ARs. Overgearing shouldn’t be a requirement.
Edit: Also an overleveled player would never have to buy crafted until it tanked in price. Considering Dawntrail increases our cap to level 100, the first AR wouldn't come out until 7.1 which is well after the crafted gear has decreased in value and the new "level 100 ilvl req" is released for the roulette.
Again, there are viable solutions to getting into the content even if you overlevel way passed where you are in the story. This was a great change from the devs. -
10-19-2023, 12:46 AMToutatiswell that’s what I got, like it or not. It doesn’t change the fact that many only have CT unlocked. Also if you haven’t finished an expansion, you cannot unlock the raids of that expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
you are not making any sense. Not one talks about removing iLvl requirements but of having appropriate ilvl requirements that take into consideration MSQ progress and not just job level. If you are lvl 90 but still in Stormblood, the highest ARs you can unlock are the HW ARs. Shouldn’t need lvl 90 gear that was originally meant for a lvl 90 savage tier for that.Quote:
Then we should just remove all ilvl requirements on content then? Who cares if my scholar is only 620, let me into p9s >.<!! Ilvl locks are in the game everywhere. If you are level 90, get level 90 gear. Simple.
The game throws incredible amounts of XP at you nowadays, especially in a preferred world, then they add events like mogtome event when you can get an incredible amount of XP just pvping, there are xp items, fc bonuses, other side content and quests, some with accelerated xp gain like deep dungeons or Bozja that you can do while you progress MSQ, making it impossible to not over level. A character I finished leveling earlier this year was at lvl 90 on every single job way before reaching the end of EW.
.No, not everyone plays the MB or crafts. Some players also purchase unlocks. We’ll see more of those players with the xbox and Dawntrail release.Quote:
It's only necessary to run the low level ARs if you decided to Max out the game very early. If you do the story, you'll get access to free gear that will get you back into that content. Someone at 90 in HW is clearly doing roulettes, so they have to have some form of gil accumulated surely?
It’s a poorly implemented change. -
10-19-2023, 12:47 AMVerdeLuckNew Alliance raids launch on the x.1 patch at which point the crafted gear drops in price heavily. There is not going to be a level 100 requirement until there's a new Alliance raid at level 100. Even then, the free gear from being 99/100 should cover 99% of the requirement like it does with this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutatis
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10-19-2023, 12:52 AMTomsYoungerBroBut adding MSQ progress is not only something they've never done, but it does bypass the ilvl requirement completely. That in essence is removing it. The game shouldn't be catering to the maxed in HW/Stb/etc. exceptions. There is already a viable solution (actually using 90 gear at 90? lmao), and those players are already locking themselves out of content that is technically available at their level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutatis
Edited in from your latest post:
I never said they are playing the MB or crafting? I said they were doing roulettes (which give gil :P). Also purchasing unlocks literally gives you gil and level equivalent gear. You have to be trolling at this pointQuote:
No, not everyone plays the MB or crafts. Some players also purchase unlocks. We’ll see more of those players with the xbox and Dawntrail release.
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10-19-2023, 01:11 AMPyurBlueIt can only do so much when the roulette is naturally skewed to favor CT, which remains the only required raids and the lowest levels ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
This is off topic. The problem outlined is that the roulette ilvl check doesn't take into account how you get gear. A player can easily outlevel the MSQ, which tends to limit gearing options. This creates a problem where a player can lock themselves out of the roulette, which is bad design. That is what people are trying to get fixed.Quote:
Then we should just remove all ilvl requirements on content then? Who cares if my scholar is only 620, let me into p9s >.<!! Ilvl locks are in the game everywhere. If you are level 90, get level 90 gear. Simple.
This doesn't solve the problem. The ilvl system is still bad design that can lock players out of content. They shouldn't have to spend money on gear they don't need, if they even have the money. There is also no guarantee that a player knows where to get gear anyway.Quote:
It's only necessary to run the low level ARs if you decided to Max out the game very early. If you do the story, you'll get access to free gear that will get you back into that content. Someone at 90 in HW is clearly doing roulettes, so they have to have some form of gil accumulated surely?
Instead of blindly trying to shoot down legitimate objections, why not at least try to see the glaring issues with the ilvl check?
Except this is when the crafted gear becomes upgradable and may actually rise in value, making it even harder to obtain. You're also assuming that player have nothing else to spend gil on.Quote:
Edit: Also an overleveled player would never have to buy crafted until it tanked in price. Considering Dawntrail increases our cap to level 100, the first AR wouldn't come out until 7.1 which is well after the crafted gear has decreased in value and the new "level 100 ilvl req" is released for the roulette.
The best solution is fixing the problem they created. Separate CT into its own roulette, or at the very least come up with a system that doesn't have a bunch of obvious flaws that are complicated to work around, as the current ilvl lock does.Quote:
Again, there are viable solutions to getting into the content even if you overlevel way passed where you are in the story. This was a great change from the devs.
Again upgrades will cause the price to increase not decrease, and no matter the price it's wasted money that could be spent elsewhere. There are better solutions that the one implemented and no reason why we shouldn't be asking for those instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
The game should work in a reasonable manner. Making excuses for poor features makes on sense. It's also nonsense to say that it's fine to ignore some subset of players just because you're not one of them. The "exceptions" (that we have no numbers for) can easily be catered to without creating additional problems, unlike what has happened with this ilvl situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
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10-19-2023, 01:15 AMToutatisno, not at all. It doesn’t bypass the requirement since the players can’t unlock the content anyway and the gear would be synched down. Also, what part of iLvl paired with MSQ progress didn’t you get? As explained overleveling isn’t an exception now, definitely not on preferred worlds. There is no point in getting lvl 90 gear when one can’t even access lvl 90 content.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
Atm gils to buy lvl 90 gear are not that big of an issue but it will become one. You also spend when you level up and you may want things that are better than gear that is useless other than to enter a roulette. The gil you get when buying a boost is not nearly enough to buy a new expansion crafted gear unless like now we are at the end of an expansion. Already explained that when Dawntrail comes out that gear will remain expensive for a while. 1st raid is usually released in x.1 when the first crafted gear is still quite expensive.Quote:
I never said they are playing the MB or crafting? I said they were doing roulettes (which give gil :P). Also purchasing unlocks literally gives you gil and level equivalent gear. You have to be trolling at this point
Same answer as above on the price of the crafted gear. It will still be expensive in 7.1. There will be only one set of crafted gear at that point. The free gear is useless if you can’t get to it…Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
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10-19-2023, 01:18 AMSaraideIncorrect. If you are someone who didnt ilvl cheese, those people would push you towards other araids by stealing the CT spots for themselves. If someone had queued for other araids in the first place of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
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10-19-2023, 01:26 AMVerdeLuck
This is really such an incredibly fringe situation, the person who is heavily overleveled on one job vs their MSQ progression, and somehow wants to run roulettes on that job instead of other jobs in the same role.
Is it possible that instead of there being so many people in this fringe situation, people are just asking for this because they have alts at level 50 they want to duo queue with to force CT without them leveling too much from roulettes and being locked out? Something to think about.
I would have never thought people would purposefully strip off all their gear to queue either but here we are. Some people are desperate to never run anything beyond level 50 Crystal Tower and I really don't think we should cater to those people. Especially not when the queues for newer raids suffer. -
10-19-2023, 01:27 AMTomsYoungerBroIncorrect. If you've done leveling roulette with a stack of 4 you would understand that if 24 people don't queue up a specific raid, the roulette itself will assign a random duty from the list. If 24 people are selected that did not select a particular raid (which is alot of the time due to the popularity of dailies), the ilvl cheeser would force CT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraide
Edit to add in other responses:
Already responded to this above. The change will clearly favor the probability of getting alliance raids outside of CTQuote:
Originally Posted by PyurBlue
It is not bad design when you can literally use the MB to buy gear? The game already gives these players that want to continually do AR roulette a viable solution. "They shouldn't have to spend money on gear they don't need". You don't need to do AR roulette, but if you want to, there is the MB :). There is no issue with the ilvl check change. It is working as intended, and the whining from certain parts of the playerbase is proving that.Quote:
This is off topic. The problem outlined is that the roulette ilvl check doesn't take into account how you get gear. A player can easily outlevel the MSQ, which tends to limit gearing options. This creates a problem where a player can lock themselves out of the roulette, which is bad design. That is what people are trying to get fixed.
This doesn't solve the problem. The ilvl system is still bad design that can lock players out of content. They shouldn't have to spend money on gear they don't need, if they even have the money. There is also no guarantee that a player knows where to get gear anyway.
Instead of blindly trying to shoot down legitimate objections, why not at least try to see the glaring issues with the ilvl check?
Then buy it right before the patch? It's not like this gear hasn't been out there for almost 20 weeks or anything lmao.Quote:
Except this is when the crafted gear becomes upgradable and may actually rise in value, making it even harder to obtain. You're also assuming that player have nothing else to spend gil on.
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10-19-2023, 01:35 AMToutatisIt’s not fringe at all. Many people in my EU fc are affected by this, especially new players. Running ARs used to be a fun FC activity that anyone lvl 50+ could join. People should be able to play the job they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
The proposed solution of taking both iLvl and MSQ progress into account does not cater to people who used to iLvl cheese. Besides, you’ve got players in 660 gear with only CT unlocked. -
10-19-2023, 01:40 AMPyurBlueYes, the oh so rare situation where a Road to X boosted new character is tens of levels beyond the MSQ. So rare that it came up in NN just yesterday. And imagine such people queuing for content in a game they pay money for, in a way that they enjoy.Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
Putting all that aside, even if we just assumed without reason that this never happens, nothing changes. The ilvl restriction was still badly implemented, and fixing it doesn't have to involve creating problems for anyone else. You may not care very much for the quality of the game, but that thankfully isn't a universal opinion.
Why are you so obsessed with some kind of petty revenge, to the point where you'd rather actively hurt the game than consider improving it. You do realize how backwards that is don't you? SE tried to control roulette queueing with an unintentionally flawed system that biased AR roulette toward CT, and then also allowed player to influence the roulette outcomes. While both of these things may have been unintentional, nothing here was against the rules of the game. A proper fix would involve catering to everyone, not trying to punish people who were enjoying their game the wrong way, at least according to you.Quote:
Is it possible that instead of there being so many people in this fringe situation, people are just asking for this because they have alts at level 50 they want to duo queue with to force CT without them leveling too much from roulettes and being locked out? Something to think about.
I would have never thought people would purposefully strip off all their gear to queue either but here we are. Some people are desperate to never run anything beyond level 50 Crystal Tower and I really don't think we should cater to those people. Especially not when the queues for newer raids suffer.
One such fix is separating CT from the rest of the raids, and yes it would give the people favoring that content what they want. Not that anyone should care since it also satisfies the wants of the other side that never want to see CT again, and let's admit it, it's much better at that than the current solution as it would actually allow roulette access with a 0% chance of CT. Funny how you ignore that.
You're not accounting for when people sign up for raids [other than CT] specifically which was mentioned in the original post.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
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10-19-2023, 01:41 AMVerdeLuckFactoring in MSQ progress creates a new cheese where someone leaves an alt at 50 pre-heavensward and just queues with it to force CT. Under this current system the people who want to do that are at least forced to level a new alt to beat ARR or gear it up if they do that too much and it hits 60+.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutatis
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10-19-2023, 01:44 AMPyurBlueWhy leave your alt at 50? Just never unlock anything but CT and you're good.Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
It does help in that it disallows player influence, partially, but it does nothing for the natural skewing caused by CT's unique position.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
Going back to player influence, that's still not completely solved as a player can just not unlock the other raids and still force CT right now.
The MB doesn't make this less of a problem. Players are being forced into spending gil, and exist catch up systems like poetics gear are negated. Again this is not an unsolvable problem, it's just clumsy and annoying, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to point out and ask to be improved. Saying that it's working as intended is a bit of a stretch, but again it's besides the point, and you could say the same about the old system that let people force CT - it was intended that being in worse gear influenced the outcome.Quote:
It is not bad design when you can literally use the MB to buy gear? The game already gives these players that want to continually do AR roulette a viable solution. "They shouldn't have to spend money on gear they don't need". You don't need to do AR roulette, but if you want to, there is the MB :). There is no issue with the ilvl check change. It is working as intended, and the whining from certain parts of the playerbase is proving that.
Then buy it right before the patch? It's not like this gear hasn't been out there for almost 20 weeks or anything lmao.
The roulette being optional doesn't really matter either. The entire game is optional. We're here because we want to be, and if someone wants to roulette they should be able to roulette without needless hassle. -
10-19-2023, 01:47 AMTomsYoungerBroBut this change doesn't add more CT raids to the overall queue, which is my point. It is all about probabilities. Because you can't ilvl cheese anymore, that guarentees there is a less chance for a CT raid. Will you still get CT raids a majority of the time compared to other alliances? Sure, but the overall percentage over the course of time will drop for the overall playerbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by PyurBlue
This statement alone shows that you do not know anything about the endgame lmao. The crafted gear will have significantly dropped in value by the x.1 patch. Sure it will slightly go up due to the augmented upgrade, but will not go anywhere near where it starts and eventually crash again anyway. Its a non-issue. Secondly, if they are buying a level boost, they get that level's equivalent gear, so it is again another non-issue. Third, if they also buy a story boost with it, they are already on their way to accessing the free alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutatis
Case and point the alternative is there and extremely viable. If they want to continue doing the roulette, time to save up that gil! :) -
10-19-2023, 01:56 AMToutatisthat’s ridiculous. There’s no point playing the game like this. Why would someone play the game just to run CT?Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
Besides, levelling an alt to 50 takes time. Anyway, there’s not even a need for alts, just start a new job or don’t unlock other raids (even the latest BiS savage gear won’t get you anything else)
You’re just making excuses for a poorly implemented system.
perhaps it’s you who haven’t paid much attention. Crafted gear drops fast in the initial days and then it doesn’t fluctuate that much until the next tier is released. Atm a set of Diadochos gear remained expensive even before the most recent patch, it went up a little for a couple days and it’s back to where it was with prices well in the hundred thousand gils for each piece (chest in the 400k on some servers). Classical gear remained expensive until Rinascita gear was released and Rinascita until Diadochos.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
As for the xp boost, I bought both that and a story skip to join friends on a new DC. I was lvl 90 after only 3 evenings. It’s also simply not fun having to overgear as it defeats all sense of progression. -
10-19-2023, 01:58 AMSaraideSo you agree no one queued for araids other than CT then? Getting 4 people who all use the roulette grouped is also far more likely than getting 24 people. A single person not having unlocked a higher araid, a single person being below 60 or a single person simply queueing for CT for the thrill of it is enough to cause a legitimate CT run. At which point ilvl cheesers will hog up those spots naturally pushing out other people who queued for the roulette in a legitimate way. You will only get other araids if people start queueing for them directly. This has long been going for my DC since I only ever got non CT raids. I'm happy the collective believe in queueing for other raids getting easier and the increased rewards have improved your roulette experience. Some other people have a different experience in the other direction though.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
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10-19-2023, 02:33 AMTomsYoungerBroI don't think i stated anything about people not queueing for non-CT raids, especially with the level 90 tokens being required for tome upgrades outside of savage. In fact, people may be queueing for the other araids more now with the tome benefits, but that is besides my original point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraide
Originally Ilvl cheesing, being level 50/only having CT unlocked, and queueing for it specifically will force a CT raid. Now, only the last 2 apply. Saying "ilvl cheesers took those spots" is mere conjecture. -
10-19-2023, 02:41 AMSnowVixi don't run Alliance Roulette a ton (i consider it an exp roulette and right now all the jobs i care to cap on 2 characters are capped), but i did just recently finish off leveling white mage on my alt and i got an Ivalice raid each time i ran it since the fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
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10-19-2023, 02:44 AMTomsYoungerBroYou've already defeated the sense of progression by overleveling well past your MSQ point lol. This is comical. The salt in this thread only proves how correct this change was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutatis
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10-19-2023, 03:05 AMVerdeLuckThe entire ilvl check got added specifically because people would rather strip off their gear and get CT every day for roulettes than have a chance at any other duty in a roulette. How can you even ask this question?Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutatis
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10-19-2023, 03:27 AMJojoyaWhat content are we overgearing when level sync is the default for most content?Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutatis
Anything instanced will be level synced unless you select Unrestricted Party in the Duty Finder settings. That includes solo duties which sometimes have an ilvl sync in addition to the level sync (so instead of gear being synced to 530 in a level 80 duty, it might be synced to 455).
Open world? FATEs are level sync unless you're going to stand around healing unsynced. Battle leves don't exist past level 60. Hunt elites are done in groups so your individual contribution is already being overshadowed by group damage. The daily hunts aren't intended to be challenging in the first place.
That leaves the maybe dozen quest mobs you need to kill between dungeons in the MSQ and those aren't intended to be challenging to the WoL either.
Compared to some other MMOs, overgearing content here is irrelevant because of the sync. It is normal to get gear that matches the level of your job.
The real culprit is overleveling the MSQ, which is far too easy to do even if you mostly ignore side content. Your base stats do continue to increase even if they're a fraction of the power you get from your gear. You gain new abilities that create more powerful damage throughput compared to your base combos. There's also no benefit to overleveling MSQ because of level sync in most content and MSQ progression gating access to almost all content other than some side content in ARR zones.
I would love for SE to disable all XP boosts when the job is above the level of the character's MSQ progression. It won't prevent overleveling (especially if the player likes to do a lot of side content) but it does dampen it considerably.
Or SE could take it a step further and make the MSQ progression level +2 the player's current level cap. If the character's active job is level 52 but they're doing the level 50 MSQ, they won't earn any more XP on that job until they reach the level 51 MSQ, at which point they could get the job to level 53 but no higher.
Regardless, people balking at acquiring gear appropriate to their level are their own obstacle when it comes to access to Alliance raids. They can either get the gear they need to access the roulette, or they can create their own mini-roulette through direct selection in Duty Finder so they don't have get the higher ilvl gear.
There naturally would be players direct queueing for raids other than CT. The problem is that the number of those players is going to be far less than those queueing for CT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraide
CT is mandatory, the others are not.
The MSQ specifically directs the player's attention to the Oddly Dressed Man and tells the player they won't be able to continue MSQ progression past a certain point unless they do the quest chain he starts. The MSQ does nothing to direct the player's attention to the others.
Not everyone investigates all the available side content and so may not be aware the other raids exists. The latter may not do the Alliance roulette at all, but to some degree they impact the roulette selection. That they aren't trying to do the others means that you're left with more chance of ending up in an Alliance with someone trying to do CT.
Pretty irrelevant who took the spots if there was already someone in the Alliance for one of the last two reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
I imagine almost every Alliance group formed is based around a player that is direct queueing for one of the Alliance raids even if there is no first time bonus. A lot of players rerun for glamour or simply because they like the raid, and either they already did the roulette for the bonus that day or they don't care about it. -
10-19-2023, 04:27 AMToutatisDuh! I was answering to your post about someone leveling an alt just to keep it at lvl 50-59 answering a post about a double check for lvl and msq progress. It has nothing to do with stripping down. Pls have the decency of putting things into context and drop the bad faith posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
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10-19-2023, 06:46 PMErzaaSo now they can force CT by overgearing instead of stripping, as long as they don't unlock any other raid. There's literally no reason to stay at 50 to force CT. Anyone can be 60 and force CT, 70 and force CT, 80 and force CT, 90 and force CT.Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdeLuck
I don't see how this helps your argument at all, or how it disproves the idea that ilvl checks should be used in tandem with MSQ progression and unlocked Alliance Roulette checks.