Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

Maybe some people want relic weapon for free -.- lol

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Nope but to reiterate, There was tangible progress with each step, it was not a maybe.

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Now I know you never tried for one lol

There were plenty of maybe's, its nice how time has a way of erasing the bad memories and leaving only nice ones. Airget laid out nicely how that system was not all peaches and cream with the rewards. There was still plenty of chances to get screwed by luck. Its also totally ok that we don't see eye to eye on this issue. Your opnion and others about this system is just as valid as mine. Some see an obsticle to be overcome, and others see a pointless time synch. I am just glad all this mess is only for 1 item that people can easily live without. Ultimately it will be up to SE if they are going to change this or not.

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Originally Posted by sparty

Maybe some people want relic weapon for free -.- lol

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So much fail in so few words...

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Originally Posted by sparty

Maybe some people want relic weapon for free -.- lol

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This goes to show just how ignorant you are, people want to put in the work and get rewarded, not put in the work and maybe get rewarded.

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Originally Posted by Alegis

Troll or dumb? Vote now!

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Troll or dumb? Vote now!

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Originally Posted by Jinko

This goes to show just how ignorant you are, people want to put in the work and get rewarded, not put in the work and maybe get rewarded.

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The same could be said for you though in assuming you know what everyone wants. (for the record I dont think you're ignorant Jinko, just making a point)Some of us are fine with this because it is but a tiny tiny portion of the game as a whole. Myself and Sparty are included in that catagory. It doesn't make us any more or less ignorant than you are.

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Originally Posted by Alegis

Im not surprised something like thats comin.
If someone like you dont have an argument left, they try to dumb down.

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How can you say random drops arnt good being a cap lvl 900 player?
How do you not understand drop rate %'s and equal chance?
You wont be happy until the event takes exactly how long and as much effort as what you, Alegis Leqarna, put into the game...

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Now I know you never tried for one lol

There were plenty of maybe's, its nice how time has a way of erasing the bad memories and leaving only nice ones. Airget laid out nicely how that system was not all peaches and cream with the rewards. There was still plenty of chances to get screwed by luck. Its also totally ok that we don't see eye to eye on this issue. Your opnion and others about this system is just as valid as mine. Some see an obsticle to be overcome, and others see a pointless time synch. I am just glad all this mess is only for 1 item that people can easily live without. Ultimately it will be up to SE if they are going to change this or not.

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If you had foresight/planning there was never a point at which you didn't make visible progress, farming pops for final tiers? Yeah while your still farming currency or did you wait til that's all you still needed then went to try to get your pop while noone in your (hopefully static) group needed currency? Fighting the mid bosses to get the pops for the next again all while still farming currency. If you somehow were in a group where you found yourselves flooring currency then yes you saw no progress at times, you did however realize that you all had no use at all for anything more down the road.

Here we get nothing. I go farm hamlet for? Just there for seals, w/e I'll eat that time sink, I'd rather see more drop from hamlets to make it worth more than just the seals, dyna armor/weapons/currency/etc.. I get mats together for weapon no big takes awhile but that's fine, I got something and see progress, I also get other random mats. Make weapon hope for HQ or just take NQ. Go SB materia, I'll farm primal items(I don't actually want to do primals cause of the drop rates but I do anyway). Double meld ... break, sweet let's start from mat farming again ... You've just slapped my progress in the face and made it sad.

In the end, kill the double meld, add more drops to hamlet so your not walking away with just nothing, ones people actually want mind you. Your good, AV/CC not happy about it, but it's not a horrible thing. The problem remains that you do things in this quest line with no reward/progress/guarantees what so ever. Relics in XI it wasn't until the end they were truly brutal, but even then you continued to get things you and or your group want. Here you get spit on.

Was Dyna painful, yes, should this be painful, yes, but it shouldn't slap you in the face. That gob never broke my stuff, and all the NPC crafted gear, yeah it didn't get broken, never saw someone break a Mythic/Empy. I never walked out of Dyna/Assault/Einheijer(sp) with nothing to show for it. What would make me want to do that now, in a game that's "more accessible" and "doesn't alienate" people?

I should mention at some point that while I use FFXI as a refrence point I'm not saying I'd like it back. I don't want to do Dyna/Assault/Sea/Sky anymore or I would still be doing them. I never remember feeling so negatively about new content in XI though, which is why I draw the comparison. Even the content that I looked at and said, I'll probably never finish this but I'm gonna try was not so depressing with the possibility of working backwards.

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Originally Posted by Green_and_a_Half

How can you say random drops arnt good being a cap lvl 900 player?
How do you not understand drop rate %'s and equal chance?
You wont be happy until the event takes exactly how long and as much effort as what you, Alegis Leqarna, put into the game...

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What does my lvl have to do with RNG? Right, nothing.

Whatever, since your last comment i refuse to discuss about anything with someone like you.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

This goes to show just how ignorant you are, people want to put in the work and get rewarded, not put in the work and maybe get rewarded.

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maybe is gonna be a factor no matter how things are done

maybe the drop will go to you instead of someone else in the party
maybe you will even find a party to do something
maybe youll get a drop
maybe you wont
maybe you will disconect at the last second and not even be there for drops

this whole RNG thing is rediculous, you people are way out of control looking at it
every game has rng in some form or another, and i can give TONS of examples

Lets start with wow since im sure alot of people asre familiar with it

10 man raid, boss drops 2 items, out of 10 total possible drops

you are there for a specific drop(lets face it no one wants more then 1-2 from him anyway)

so thats a 20% chance of him dropping what you want, then a 10% chance of you even getting the drop, sounds like bad RNG to me right there too

and then lets look at 25 man raids, the RNg on that is alot bigger too


now lets go over to 11....do you even want me to get started on drop rates in bcnms and hnms? yet people found those to be "perfect" apprently, yet you do it here and its unacceptable?

huge double standard

RNG is a double standard that people are willing to put up with, as long as it doesnt make them do more work. Some people are willing to do it, some arent.

If you arent, then dont, plain and simple


I for one have understoof every bit of what people are arguing about, its real simple to understand, yet some people just dont want to understand that using WORST CASE SCENERIOS for everything is not how you are going to get your point across cuz those arent the norm

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Originally Posted by Biggs

The same could be said for you though in assuming you know what everyone wants. (for the record I dont think you're ignorant Jinko, just making a point)Some of us are fine with this because it is but a tiny tiny portion of the game as a whole. Myself and Sparty are included in that catagory. It doesn't make us any more or less ignorant than you are.

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Yea maybe I shouldn't have called sparty ignorant, its just when I see people pretending to undermine others opinions with "oh you want it spoon fed" it aggravates me.

There is a good balance that can be struck between hard work and obtaining an item, random luck shouldn't have anything to do with it.

It's like going to work and your boss saying sorry this month you don't get any wages better luck next time.

I mean after all the hallabaloo about Ifrit and Moogle tokens and then they go and do this just to rub it in a little bit more, man does Yoshi-p even play this game or just come up with obnoxious ways to extend the life of the content.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I am failing to see what part of 6months to a year of Dynamis wasn't repetative and also based on luck.

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once every 3 days - that's about 120 times a year - less than I've done Ifrit in the past 3 months.

You ALWAYS had drops in dynamis, just because of the large scale you didn't always get an item yourself - you still saw progress.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

If you had foresight/planning there was never a point at which you didn't make visible progress, farming pops for final tiers? Yeah while your still farming currency or did you wait til that's all you still needed then went to try to get your pop while noone in your (hopefully static) group needed currency? Fighting the mid bosses to get the pops for the next again all while still farming currency. If you somehow were in a group where you found yourselves flooring currency then yes you saw no progress at times, you did however realize that you all had no use at all for anything more down the road.

Here we get nothing. I go farm hamlet for? Just there for seals, w/e I'll eat that time sink, I'd rather see more drop from hamlets to make it worth more than just the seals, dyna armor/weapons/currency/etc.. I get mats together for weapon no big takes awhile but that's fine, I got something and see progress, I also get other random mats. Make weapon hope for HQ or just take NQ. Go SB materia, I'll farm primal items(I don't actually want to do primals cause of the drop rates but I do anyway). Double meld ... break, sweet let's start from mat farming again ... You've just slapped my progress in the face and made it sad.

In the end, kill the double meld, add more drops to hamlet so your not walking away with just nothing, ones people actually want mind you. Your good, AV/CC not happy about it, but it's not a horrible thing. The problem remains that you do things in this quest line with no reward/progress/guarantees what so ever. Relics in XI it wasn't until the end they were truly brutal, but even then you continued to get things you and or your group want. Here you get spit on.

Was Dyna painful, yes, should this be painful, yes, but it shouldn't slap you in the face. That gob never broke my stuff, and all the NPC crafted gear, yeah it didn't get broken, never saw someone break a Mythic/Empy. I never walked out of Dyna/Assault/Einheijer(sp) with nothing to show for it. What would make me want to do that now, in a game that's "more accessible" and "doesn't alienate" people?

I should mention at some point that while I use FFXI as a refrence point I'm not saying I'd like it back. I don't want to do Dyna/Assault/Sea/Sky anymore or I would still be doing them. I never remember feeling so negatively about new content in XI though, which is why I draw the comparison. Even the content that I looked at and said, I'll probably never finish this but I'm gonna try was not so depressing with the possibility of working backwards.

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I totally agree but 90% of the rage on this OP is in the assumption that there was/is never going to be any adjustment to that even without our outrage. We know the good nuts and bolts of this system will stay, they could easily adjust drop rates like you say after 2.0. Couldn't it be that this had to go in now because its part of an ordered process to the restructering of the game? There is a ton we don't know in order for us to be acting this way. I mean, you can't even finish the actual quest yet.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

Lets start with wow since im sure alot of people asre familiar with it

10 man raid, boss drops 2 items, out of 10 total possible drops

you are there for a specific drop(lets face it no one wants more then 1-2 from him anyway)

so thats a 20% chance of him dropping what you want, then a 10% chance of you even getting the drop, sounds like bad RNG to me right there too

and then lets look at 25 man raids, the RNg on that is alot bigger too

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Well I played WoW for years and we used a fair points system, people got what they wanted or got off spec gear for half price if nobody wanted it for main spec.

That being said you "always always" got tokens so that you could buy tier gear or just better vendor gear to tide you over, there was that constant reminder that even though you didn't get what you wanted you got something which would allow you to progress once you had enough saved up.

Even in Dynamis you got currency (assuming you didn't have some nub hoarding it all) which you could later sell, you came away with at least something ..

In many cases with this game you come away with nothing, ... ohhhh Dark Mater I guess that makes everything all right then.

Please let's not bring WoW up in this.

As much as I know people enjoyed it I like my gear to last me more than a month before it gets outdated.

Trying to argue with the people who defend this system is pointless. They defend the grind because they think it makes them something special. Goddamn neckbeards. If I could, I would reach through my computer screen and slap some of you silly.

Honestly, this page garnered about 14 pages from last night and the sad part is those defending it have yet to offer a viable reason other than, "not everyone can have these." Anything in any game should be obtainable to everyone in the player-base. If successful real life person #1 has only one hour to play. He should be able to work toward progress in getting these weapons as awfully slow as it may be. As the game currently stands, it is perfectly feasible for someone to invest 4 hours of their time and come out with nothing.

I'm not sure about you guys but I like my time investment in anything I do to have a pay-off. FFXIV does not pay off your time investment with measurable progress. This is not clever game design, it's a time sink that offers no real challenge. For someone like myself who cannot play 24/7 due to actually having a life, the thought of logging on, putting in 4 hours and getting no measurable progress is ridiculous. At least in XI, as grindy and hardcore as it was, I could log on, put in 4 hours and make some progress there. Even WoW during Burning Crusade followed this rule.

You people defending it would make awesome subjects for a dictator. You put up with the crap and defend it. I suggest heading off to North Korea. They could really use people like you.

Finally I would postulate, that the VERY FEW defending it are those who have pretty much been around since day 1, have capped crafting classes and have boatloads of gil. These idiots think they should be rewarded for sticking with the game through the god-awful first year and a half. These are the people those of us with a brain are arguing with. It's like a modified Stockholm Syndrome......SE shouldn't market towards those clowns. They would stay with them through anything.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

As I said. I am already halfway to my weapon. What's your excuse other than laziness?

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Having a life and a brain.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Please let's not bring WoW up in this.

As much as I know people enjoyed it I like my gear to last me more than a month before it gets outdated.

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Thats the problem, when they increase level cap no matter how hard you work at something its going to become useless.

Thats why its a mistake to have these long time goals, people are just going to get annoyed again just like that did in FF11 when they raised the cap.

WoW has a great system it constantly keeps you working towards the next newest item instead of sitting there stagnating in the same old crap from 3 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Please let's not bring WoW up in this.

As much as I know people enjoyed it I like my gear to last me more than a month before it gets outdated.

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the point wasnt to bring wow into it just comparing examples from other games people often mention(hence why i also mention 11)

also, those tokens gave you CRAP gear, not the gear you were aiming for, and your point system WAS NOT GAME IMPLEMENTED, it was player implemented, so the same could be said that you could run that same point system here for drops


i ran hamlet this morning btw, we went 1/3 on drops at 30-50k points(wasnt a serious run, didnt have the group we needed for 60k, alot of people who hadnt done it before) and id call that pretty win as far as progress. some may not, but you know what, thats life.

237 likes on the OP, that is a significant portion of the NA lodestone user base, and if we assume at least half of those numbers on other language forums we can assume at least 500 or so or more players are very disappointed by this relic weapon quest development.

Can't argue with numbers.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Thats the problem, when they increase level cap no matter how hard you work at something its going to become unless.

Thats why its a mistake to have these long time goals, people are just going to get annoyed again just like that did in FF11 when they raised the cap.

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As long as we get good shelf life out of our items I wont be complaining. I wasn't around for the level cap raise but I wouldn't be feel jilted having new gear when the level cap was raised.

Then again I don't expect the level cap to continually increase either I expect a slow gradual climb up the level caps. If they went all abysea and went from current to 99 in quick sucsession then it would be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I totally agree but 90% of the rage on this OP is in the assumption that there was/is never going to be any adjustment to that even without our outrage. We know the good nuts and bolts of this system will stay, they could easily adjust drop rates like you say after 2.0. Couldn't it be that this had to go in now because its part of an ordered process to the restructuring of the game? There is a ton we don't know in order for us to be acting this way. I mean, you can't even finish the actual quest yet.

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Yes. That's the short answer.
Really though, they made it obvious they weren't locked into a preexisting drop system when they gave us Garuda.
I think probably the part, and looking back over random pages most if not all are more upset about the idea of randomness being such a large factor, especially the class weapon > double meld part. Drops I/we(mostly) will get over just like we always have if they're not horribly unreasonable or we get something, however small, that let's us have a genuine sense of progression. This is just get your seals and how much gil do you have to finish it. Will the seals take time yeah, the middle is pure chance with no reward but very real consequences for failing. The end well if the rates aren't horrible we'll get over it. 0 progress during parts and pure chance parts is just obnoxious. No game MMO or otherwise provides a system of attainment where you make no progress except by chance.

I helped friends farm weapons/armor/currency even though I got nothing, even that shows progress, not my own but that person I'm helping who will undoubtedly help me in the future to make progress.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

As long as we get good shelf life out of our items I wont be complaining. I wasn't around for the level cap raise but I wouldn't be feel jilted having new gear when the level cap was raised.

Then again I don't expect the level cap to continually increase either I expect a slow gradual climb up the level caps. If they went all abysea and went from current to 99 in quick sucsession then it would be a problem.

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True enough, I suppose there is the hope that relics will be upgradable every level cap also.

~Brrrr~ Stop that .. !!

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Goddamn neckbeards. If I could, I would reach through my computer screen and slap some of you silly.

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rofl. I agree!

Are people seriously defending this RNG system!? Jeez...console games are dead (As E3 proved, failed etc)..please do not ruin MMO for me with this lolrng system, it is my last outlet for video gaming. :(

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Originally Posted by Green_and_a_Half

all people in your example had the same chance to get the items, fair still

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Thats the key words ( had a chance) but again the remaining factor is luck. So those who go w/o a drop for a long period of time still do more work than those players who got lucky that isnt fair, and if you think it is there's something wrong with you. So in the end its the unlucky players who do more work for whatever than those that GOT LUCKY and got the drops.

All the content in FFXIV needs to be completely redone so that players are rewarded for their effort and hard work not just have a players hard work relate to luck of the draw. Is there something you dont understand about that. The relics and all high sought after items could use a different system that 1. dosent really on luck 2. is challenging 3.shows progress. At this point in time the only progress players do see is with achievements. You can sit there and try the arguement well you won, so what if I won I am still 0 out of 100 wins, while the player next to me has 3 out of 100 wins. This is wrong and it is unfair because again at the end of the day those who have gone longer w/o a drop or what not still put in more work for whatever item they are after. This isnt hard to understand at least I dont think it is. ALSO I AM NOT SAYING MAKE IT EASY!!!

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Well I played WoW for years and we used a fair points system, people got what they wanted or got off spec gear for half price if nobody wanted it for main spec.

That being said you "always always" got tokens so that you could buy tier gear or just better vendor gear to tide you over, there was that constant reminder that even though you didn't get what you wanted you got something which would allow you to progress once you had enough saved up.

Even in Dynamis you got currency (assuming you didn't have some nub hoarding it all) which you could later sell, you came away with at least something ..

In many cases with this game you come away with nothing, ... ohhhh Dark Mater I guess that makes everything all right then.

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Most games do something like that, and we've all said it before, we just want to be able to see some measurable progress no matter how small to say that we're not doing all this in vain, that the last 2 weeks farming aren't simply going to go up in a puff of smoke so when we look back we say "Huh what did I do the last to weeks. Iit's like a 2 week foray into Vegas while blacked out, maybe you get home rich, maybe you get home broke, maybe you don't have a home cause you gambled it away, maybe you own a casino cause you won so much you bought it."

Assault points .......... to preempt the FFXI argument lol

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Most games do something like that, and we've all said it before, we just want to be able to see some measurable progress no matter how small to say that we're not doing all this in vain, that the last 2 weeks farming aren't simply going to go up in a puff of smoke so when we look back we say "Huh what did I do the last to weeks. Iit's like a 2 week foray into Vegas while blacked out, maybe you get home rich, maybe you get home broke, maybe you don't have a home cause you gambled it away, maybe you own a casino cause you won so much you bought it."

Assault points .......... to preempt the FFXI argument lol

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tokens in those games can also be comapred to getting dark matter here though

you gotta understand, 99% of the drops you could get with tokens, or some other "non endgame best in slot drop" were pretty damn worthless

in all fairness, dark matter here is the equivilent of tokens there, cuz you didnt go into those raids looking for tokens, you went in looking for a specific drop, much like you are doing here

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Originally Posted by Jinko

True enough, I suppose there is the hope that relics will be upgradable every level cap also.

~Brrrr~ Stop that .. !!

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Personally what my guestimate would be is that Relic weapons are going to turn into your "Standby" good gear, while it may be hard to get right now and mostly the best item you can get.

When the level cap rises if they make them upgradeable I imagine they will be good but not great, not ultra hard to upgrade but require a bit of extra time to do. Giving you a reason to complete new content for new gear, but not making your initial investment worthless.

All we can do for now is guess though.

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Originally Posted by Darkillumina

Accidentally posted this in the wrong thread so I'm moving this here.

I've read this whole thread and have yet to see a viable defense out of the defenders of this system as to how and why it is hard work. The only thing coming out of people's mouths seem to be, 'not everyone' can have them. If this is all you people can muster your defense fails horribly.

Others have broken it down so I don't need to, but nothing in this quest line requires hard work. If you've been playing for a long time and have gil, time, and above all else - luck this whole thing is easier than limit break in ffxi.

I also question SE's decision in adding these weapons at this point in time. They are digging themselves quite a hole here. Let's break it down.

In the near future SE will probably raise the cap. In doing so new weapons will be introduced. This could have a effect like Burning Crusade did for WoW. For those that remember the cap was raised and common greens were better than many epics that people had slaved away to get. The no-lifers got pissed off and blizzard did nothing. Complaining ensued. Judging by the elitist mentality here, a similar thing could happen.

In response SE could do nothing or add on power up quests to keep them viable. This would piss off new players because they would be forced to do old grindy content that was designed for an old version of the game. On the developer side of things SE would be forced to constantly look back at these relics when designing new content which for a dev is a major pain in the ass. Imagine this:

Dev 1: Ok new expansion x is ready for release.

Dev 2: Sir, the common items are better than the old relics from 1.0.

Dev 1: Goddamit, I forgot about those old things. Guess we'll have to whip up another convoluted add on to the quest line to keep the old no-lifers happy.

Dev 2: Fffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu again?

Aside from the above this also has the current effect of sending tier iv materia's to stratospheric levels. They are already very expensive. Imagine what it will be like for new players who want to buy a new piece of materia to meld to their boots so they aren't totally gimp.

More people need to look at the long term and not just the short term including SE. This whole thing reeks of a grind to placate the no-lifers who are complaining on these forums of lack of things to do currently so that SE doesn't lose their subs.

I've already said my part about the rng grind in the Relic Weapon thread so I won't digress.

Regardless I think this is a incredibly short-sighted reactionary move by SE that will lead to many headaches down the road for them unless they give the no-lifers a collective fuck you like Bliazzard did in response to the green controversy in WoW BC.

Also the RNG is garbage. We all know this. As a sensible player I had to laugh at my first experience with RNG.
I had a freshly 50 arm and decided to stick some materia on cobalt gauntlets. Then I stuck another on and for the lulz I went for a triple. It stuck on my first attempt doing a multiple meld. It wasn't skill or anything of that sort. Just pure blind luck. I've also seen noobs who barely know how to run straight get a darklight piece on their first attempt clearing AV/CC while the hardest and most skilled players are left with jack-shit.

Edit: I also need to add that the difference between Dynamis and fraggin Hamlet is that Dynamis was widely loved. People HATE Hamlet. After 10 hamlet wins I wanted to swallow a live hand grenade and play Russian roulette with a loaded handgun.

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Beautifully written

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

tokens in those games can also be comapred to getting dark matter here though

you gotta understand, 99% of the drops you could get with tokens, or some other "non endgame best in slot drop" were pretty damn worthless

in all fairness, dark matter here is the equivilent of tokens there, cuz you didnt go into those raids looking for tokens, you went in looking for a specific drop, much like you are doing here

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Assault gear wasn't all crap, most of it wasn't crap at all. Dyna currency, ABC's, Abjurations, not what I went in for no, worth hanging onto and a tangible reward for my time, yes. This argument is more about the primals though. The AF weapon is more a matter of no progress at points, shitty random progress at others, and then possibly backwards in still others. What about that do you like. Find another system that's built on anti-rewards for your time that actually works.

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Originally Posted by sparty

I think system for relic weapon r good :) Hard for me that not playing game 24/24 but not impossible :)

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Again, it's not hard. It's just based on luck. I could already make and meld the requested items, but I'm not going to do it. I'm unlucky and I don't want to waste 100m trying to do it.

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

once every 3 days - that's about 120 times a year - less than I've done Ifrit in the past 3 months.

You ALWAYS had drops in dynamis, just because of the large scale you didn't always get an item yourself - you still saw progress.

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Yep, but you couldnt spam Dynamis daily either. I look at that system and this system and see essentially the same thing done in a different way. Even though this system prob takes less time than Xi's, due to its structure people are hating on it. Kinda funny actually. Mostly just a matter of taste. No ones really questioning how long its gonna take, only the manner in which that time is spent.

I like the way they made this already---- they finally realized giving everything to everyone quickly is pointless cuz then you end up with nothing to do..

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Yes. That's the short answer.
I helped friends farm weapons/armor/currency even though I got nothing, even that shows progress, not my own but that person I'm helping who will undoubtedly help me in the future to make progress.

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This is the exact same thing I was saying though about the relic system. If you had static group helping you do this and you all worked together, this isnt really shit and it increases the chance of making progress, for someone at least, each time you make a run. To me anyway that just leaves the melding part of this thats still pretty random. If your with the same people, hamlet drops arent superb but I bet at least 1 person gets one each run if your successfull. A matter of perspective I guess. I look forward to seeing how SE develops this.

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

You may be spamming content, but it's guaranteed progression, which is the issue at hand. There is so much RNG, and not enough, "if I put in time, I'll get at least a little bit closer to my goal."

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the token and seal part isnt what bothers me, it was until I read you need to make the class weapon and double meld it, this IMO is worse than the token/seals.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

I wasn't really expecting relics at this point, was more of thinking AF weapons which goes with your AF armor so you look cool and from there they were going to add quests to improve the weapons more and more into the future so your AF gear sticks with any level cap increases... and those becoming more hardcore related content... but I guess I was wrong was hardcore from beginning lol.

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It was originally understood those would be our AF weapons, they just gave them the name relic and added a touch of ye olde Dynamis to it.

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Originally Posted by EdenArchangel

We should not have relic weapons anyway in our pseudo endgame, save it for 70+.
Should've had a "decent" artifact weapon with story revolving around how each particular job is trying to combat the Garleans and Dalamud.
Would pay the 10m from failed dual melds straight up just to get this implemented correctly ~~

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Agreed. These should've been our delayed AF weapons, not relic. Wouldn't even have to do it like in FFXI where you pop the ??? and spawn your weapon nm, but this?

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Way to not read the thread or understand the message.

People want Relics to be hard. They want them to be an achievement to obtain. But they want them to be something you can actually make progress on without relying on RNG to swing your way like it's the old L50 Miragent's set in Aion. So that even if it's difficult and takes a long while, you know "hey, I made progress today, I'm getting closer" not "I hope this will be the last 2 million+ Gil weapon I'll have to try double melding without it breaking" or "I hope this time I'll get one of the 3 items I need and not DM".

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No kidding. I wonder though if a comm rep will even notice this thread.

Mog Trials...

They were absurd. Killing 500 apkallu (you know, the ones that become exponentially more powerful every time one is killed in the zone and go grab their friends to massacre you? the one they eventually changed after i completed it because it was too hard?) for my 'occasionally attack 2-3x' axe was mind-numbing but it was infinitely more rewarding because I could measure my progress. My goal had a very predictable concrete end to it.

I much prefer that to this rng crap.

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Originally Posted by Alegis

Thats the point.
There is (or will be) another one who will get his double melded at the first try while u had to spent 35 times more effort into it.

How can some ppl still defend that unfairness...

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Yeah, seen some ppl have their attempts go kaboom while the person right next to them ends up with a lucky streak. I have someone in one of my ls's atm with this such luck. So much so, my ls mates are saying you have to be a taru/lalafell to get successes.

[QUOTE=Elexia;717439]To be honest the only thing they could do for this is:

1. Make Hamlet more like Campaign from XI and throw all gear/seals into purchasable category with points you build through it, that way people who complain about RNG can buy the seals eventually.

Yup, most ppl hoped or thought Hamlet Defense would be something like good, old ffxi campaigns, now those were fun.