Maybe some people want relic weapon for free -.- lol
Maybe some people want relic weapon for free -.- lol
Now I know you never tried for one lol
There were plenty of maybe's, its nice how time has a way of erasing the bad memories and leaving only nice ones. Airget laid out nicely how that system was not all peaches and cream with the rewards. There was still plenty of chances to get screwed by luck. Its also totally ok that we don't see eye to eye on this issue. Your opnion and others about this system is just as valid as mine. Some see an obsticle to be overcome, and others see a pointless time synch. I am just glad all this mess is only for 1 item that people can easily live without. Ultimately it will be up to SE if they are going to change this or not.
The same could be said for you though in assuming you know what everyone wants. (for the record I dont think you're ignorant Jinko, just making a point)Some of us are fine with this because it is but a tiny tiny portion of the game as a whole. Myself and Sparty are included in that catagory. It doesn't make us any more or less ignorant than you are.
If you had foresight/planning there was never a point at which you didn't make visible progress, farming pops for final tiers? Yeah while your still farming currency or did you wait til that's all you still needed then went to try to get your pop while noone in your (hopefully static) group needed currency? Fighting the mid bosses to get the pops for the next again all while still farming currency. If you somehow were in a group where you found yourselves flooring currency then yes you saw no progress at times, you did however realize that you all had no use at all for anything more down the road.
Here we get nothing. I go farm hamlet for? Just there for seals, w/e I'll eat that time sink, I'd rather see more drop from hamlets to make it worth more than just the seals, dyna armor/weapons/currency/etc.. I get mats together for weapon no big takes awhile but that's fine, I got something and see progress, I also get other random mats. Make weapon hope for HQ or just take NQ. Go SB materia, I'll farm primal items(I don't actually want to do primals cause of the drop rates but I do anyway). Double meld ... break, sweet let's start from mat farming again ... You've just slapped my progress in the face and made it sad.
In the end, kill the double meld, add more drops to hamlet so your not walking away with just nothing, ones people actually want mind you. Your good, AV/CC not happy about it, but it's not a horrible thing. The problem remains that you do things in this quest line with no reward/progress/guarantees what so ever. Relics in XI it wasn't until the end they were truly brutal, but even then you continued to get things you and or your group want. Here you get spit on.
Was Dyna painful, yes, should this be painful, yes, but it shouldn't slap you in the face. That gob never broke my stuff, and all the NPC crafted gear, yeah it didn't get broken, never saw someone break a Mythic/Empy. I never walked out of Dyna/Assault/Einheijer(sp) with nothing to show for it. What would make me want to do that now, in a game that's "more accessible" and "doesn't alienate" people?
I should mention at some point that while I use FFXI as a refrence point I'm not saying I'd like it back. I don't want to do Dyna/Assault/Sea/Sky anymore or I would still be doing them. I never remember feeling so negatively about new content in XI though, which is why I draw the comparison. Even the content that I looked at and said, I'll probably never finish this but I'm gonna try was not so depressing with the possibility of working backwards.
maybe is gonna be a factor no matter how things are done
maybe the drop will go to you instead of someone else in the party
maybe you will even find a party to do something
maybe youll get a drop
maybe you wont
maybe you will disconect at the last second and not even be there for drops
this whole RNG thing is rediculous, you people are way out of control looking at it
every game has rng in some form or another, and i can give TONS of examples
Lets start with wow since im sure alot of people asre familiar with it
10 man raid, boss drops 2 items, out of 10 total possible drops
you are there for a specific drop(lets face it no one wants more then 1-2 from him anyway)
so thats a 20% chance of him dropping what you want, then a 10% chance of you even getting the drop, sounds like bad RNG to me right there too
and then lets look at 25 man raids, the RNg on that is alot bigger too
now lets go over to 11....do you even want me to get started on drop rates in bcnms and hnms? yet people found those to be "perfect" apprently, yet you do it here and its unacceptable?
huge double standard
RNG is a double standard that people are willing to put up with, as long as it doesnt make them do more work. Some people are willing to do it, some arent.
If you arent, then dont, plain and simple
I for one have understoof every bit of what people are arguing about, its real simple to understand, yet some people just dont want to understand that using WORST CASE SCENERIOS for everything is not how you are going to get your point across cuz those arent the norm
Yea maybe I shouldn't have called sparty ignorant, its just when I see people pretending to undermine others opinions with "oh you want it spoon fed" it aggravates me.
There is a good balance that can be struck between hard work and obtaining an item, random luck shouldn't have anything to do with it.
It's like going to work and your boss saying sorry this month you don't get any wages better luck next time.
I mean after all the hallabaloo about Ifrit and Moogle tokens and then they go and do this just to rub it in a little bit more, man does Yoshi-p even play this game or just come up with obnoxious ways to extend the life of the content.
I totally agree but 90% of the rage on this OP is in the assumption that there was/is never going to be any adjustment to that even without our outrage. We know the good nuts and bolts of this system will stay, they could easily adjust drop rates like you say after 2.0. Couldn't it be that this had to go in now because its part of an ordered process to the restructering of the game? There is a ton we don't know in order for us to be acting this way. I mean, you can't even finish the actual quest yet.
Well I played WoW for years and we used a fair points system, people got what they wanted or got off spec gear for half price if nobody wanted it for main spec.
That being said you "always always" got tokens so that you could buy tier gear or just better vendor gear to tide you over, there was that constant reminder that even though you didn't get what you wanted you got something which would allow you to progress once you had enough saved up.
Even in Dynamis you got currency (assuming you didn't have some nub hoarding it all) which you could later sell, you came away with at least something ..
In many cases with this game you come away with nothing, ... ohhhh Dark Mater I guess that makes everything all right then.
Please let's not bring WoW up in this.
As much as I know people enjoyed it I like my gear to last me more than a month before it gets outdated.
Trying to argue with the people who defend this system is pointless. They defend the grind because they think it makes them something special. Goddamn neckbeards. If I could, I would reach through my computer screen and slap some of you silly.
Honestly, this page garnered about 14 pages from last night and the sad part is those defending it have yet to offer a viable reason other than, "not everyone can have these." Anything in any game should be obtainable to everyone in the player-base. If successful real life person #1 has only one hour to play. He should be able to work toward progress in getting these weapons as awfully slow as it may be. As the game currently stands, it is perfectly feasible for someone to invest 4 hours of their time and come out with nothing.
I'm not sure about you guys but I like my time investment in anything I do to have a pay-off. FFXIV does not pay off your time investment with measurable progress. This is not clever game design, it's a time sink that offers no real challenge. For someone like myself who cannot play 24/7 due to actually having a life, the thought of logging on, putting in 4 hours and getting no measurable progress is ridiculous. At least in XI, as grindy and hardcore as it was, I could log on, put in 4 hours and make some progress there. Even WoW during Burning Crusade followed this rule.
You people defending it would make awesome subjects for a dictator. You put up with the crap and defend it. I suggest heading off to North Korea. They could really use people like you.
Finally I would postulate, that the VERY FEW defending it are those who have pretty much been around since day 1, have capped crafting classes and have boatloads of gil. These idiots think they should be rewarded for sticking with the game through the god-awful first year and a half. These are the people those of us with a brain are arguing with. It's like a modified Stockholm Syndrome......SE shouldn't market towards those clowns. They would stay with them through anything.
Having a life and a brain.
Thats the problem, when they increase level cap no matter how hard you work at something its going to become useless.
Thats why its a mistake to have these long time goals, people are just going to get annoyed again just like that did in FF11 when they raised the cap.
WoW has a great system it constantly keeps you working towards the next newest item instead of sitting there stagnating in the same old crap from 3 years ago.
the point wasnt to bring wow into it just comparing examples from other games people often mention(hence why i also mention 11)
also, those tokens gave you CRAP gear, not the gear you were aiming for, and your point system WAS NOT GAME IMPLEMENTED, it was player implemented, so the same could be said that you could run that same point system here for drops
i ran hamlet this morning btw, we went 1/3 on drops at 30-50k points(wasnt a serious run, didnt have the group we needed for 60k, alot of people who hadnt done it before) and id call that pretty win as far as progress. some may not, but you know what, thats life.
237 likes on the OP, that is a significant portion of the NA lodestone user base, and if we assume at least half of those numbers on other language forums we can assume at least 500 or so or more players are very disappointed by this relic weapon quest development.
Can't argue with numbers.
As long as we get good shelf life out of our items I wont be complaining. I wasn't around for the level cap raise but I wouldn't be feel jilted having new gear when the level cap was raised.
Then again I don't expect the level cap to continually increase either I expect a slow gradual climb up the level caps. If they went all abysea and went from current to 99 in quick sucsession then it would be a problem.
Yes. That's the short answer.
Really though, they made it obvious they weren't locked into a preexisting drop system when they gave us Garuda.
I think probably the part, and looking back over random pages most if not all are more upset about the idea of randomness being such a large factor, especially the class weapon > double meld part. Drops I/we(mostly) will get over just like we always have if they're not horribly unreasonable or we get something, however small, that let's us have a genuine sense of progression. This is just get your seals and how much gil do you have to finish it. Will the seals take time yeah, the middle is pure chance with no reward but very real consequences for failing. The end well if the rates aren't horrible we'll get over it. 0 progress during parts and pure chance parts is just obnoxious. No game MMO or otherwise provides a system of attainment where you make no progress except by chance.
I helped friends farm weapons/armor/currency even though I got nothing, even that shows progress, not my own but that person I'm helping who will undoubtedly help me in the future to make progress.
rofl. I agree!Quote:
Goddamn neckbeards. If I could, I would reach through my computer screen and slap some of you silly.
Are people seriously defending this RNG system!? Jeez...console games are dead (As E3 proved, failed etc)..please do not ruin MMO for me with this lolrng system, it is my last outlet for video gaming. :(
Thats the key words ( had a chance) but again the remaining factor is luck. So those who go w/o a drop for a long period of time still do more work than those players who got lucky that isnt fair, and if you think it is there's something wrong with you. So in the end its the unlucky players who do more work for whatever than those that GOT LUCKY and got the drops.
All the content in FFXIV needs to be completely redone so that players are rewarded for their effort and hard work not just have a players hard work relate to luck of the draw. Is there something you dont understand about that. The relics and all high sought after items could use a different system that 1. dosent really on luck 2. is challenging 3.shows progress. At this point in time the only progress players do see is with achievements. You can sit there and try the arguement well you won, so what if I won I am still 0 out of 100 wins, while the player next to me has 3 out of 100 wins. This is wrong and it is unfair because again at the end of the day those who have gone longer w/o a drop or what not still put in more work for whatever item they are after. This isnt hard to understand at least I dont think it is. ALSO I AM NOT SAYING MAKE IT EASY!!!
Most games do something like that, and we've all said it before, we just want to be able to see some measurable progress no matter how small to say that we're not doing all this in vain, that the last 2 weeks farming aren't simply going to go up in a puff of smoke so when we look back we say "Huh what did I do the last to weeks. Iit's like a 2 week foray into Vegas while blacked out, maybe you get home rich, maybe you get home broke, maybe you don't have a home cause you gambled it away, maybe you own a casino cause you won so much you bought it."
Assault points .......... to preempt the FFXI argument lol
tokens in those games can also be comapred to getting dark matter here though
you gotta understand, 99% of the drops you could get with tokens, or some other "non endgame best in slot drop" were pretty damn worthless
in all fairness, dark matter here is the equivilent of tokens there, cuz you didnt go into those raids looking for tokens, you went in looking for a specific drop, much like you are doing here
Personally what my guestimate would be is that Relic weapons are going to turn into your "Standby" good gear, while it may be hard to get right now and mostly the best item you can get.
When the level cap rises if they make them upgradeable I imagine they will be good but not great, not ultra hard to upgrade but require a bit of extra time to do. Giving you a reason to complete new content for new gear, but not making your initial investment worthless.
All we can do for now is guess though.
Assault gear wasn't all crap, most of it wasn't crap at all. Dyna currency, ABC's, Abjurations, not what I went in for no, worth hanging onto and a tangible reward for my time, yes. This argument is more about the primals though. The AF weapon is more a matter of no progress at points, shitty random progress at others, and then possibly backwards in still others. What about that do you like. Find another system that's built on anti-rewards for your time that actually works.
Yep, but you couldnt spam Dynamis daily either. I look at that system and this system and see essentially the same thing done in a different way. Even though this system prob takes less time than Xi's, due to its structure people are hating on it. Kinda funny actually. Mostly just a matter of taste. No ones really questioning how long its gonna take, only the manner in which that time is spent.
I like the way they made this already---- they finally realized giving everything to everyone quickly is pointless cuz then you end up with nothing to do..
This is the exact same thing I was saying though about the relic system. If you had static group helping you do this and you all worked together, this isnt really shit and it increases the chance of making progress, for someone at least, each time you make a run. To me anyway that just leaves the melding part of this thats still pretty random. If your with the same people, hamlet drops arent superb but I bet at least 1 person gets one each run if your successfull. A matter of perspective I guess. I look forward to seeing how SE develops this.
Mog Trials...
They were absurd. Killing 500 apkallu (you know, the ones that become exponentially more powerful every time one is killed in the zone and go grab their friends to massacre you? the one they eventually changed after i completed it because it was too hard?) for my 'occasionally attack 2-3x' axe was mind-numbing but it was infinitely more rewarding because I could measure my progress. My goal had a very predictable concrete end to it.
I much prefer that to this rng crap.
[QUOTE=Elexia;717439]To be honest the only thing they could do for this is:
1. Make Hamlet more like Campaign from XI and throw all gear/seals into purchasable category with points you build through it, that way people who complain about RNG can buy the seals eventually.
Yup, most ppl hoped or thought Hamlet Defense would be something like good, old ffxi campaigns, now those were fun.